"The future of football manager" discussion

[DarJ]

For those that read the article what do you think about it. This year a lot of people have asked for more transparency regarding the future of the game and this is a good step in the right direction.

Regarding the announcements they are huge the ability to carry saves over alone is impressive but from the way it was written it seems you will only be able to carry over from the previous year so if I bought FM 23 for example and the next version I buy is FM26 I won't be able to carry over my FM 23 save into FM26.

The change to unity is nice since there are a lot of games that run on that, women football in FM25 is interesting while I don't care for it IRL unless I see it randomly on TV it's something I can see myself playing a lot because I like playing in obscure leagues.

I wasn't going to buy FM24 but the fact I can carry over a save from FM23 may have already convinced me.

[jmb1403]

It would be a great idea but are they saying that the next years game will not be improved much on the previous year? (ie. to make the save compatible it will need to be in a similar state?)

[rp1966]

The announcement was interesting. Some acknowledgement that FM has been left behind as the gaming world moved on.  FM24 continue save game is a nice feature (hopefully problems with player development will have been fixed so that it is worth carrying on).  

FM25 is clearly going to be a major change with a whole new software engine and the introduction of women's football.  We'll have to see what that brings, but mention of both graphical and UI improvement enabled by  Unity seems to address some of the concern expressed as part of FM23 feedback.

[shaunwwfc]

Can we carry over MEs to the new game where required too 

[DarJ]

2 minutes ago, jmb1403 said:

It would be a great idea but are they saying that the next years game will not be improved much on the previous year? (ie. to make the save compatible it will need to be in a similar state?)

I don't think so or at least I didn't get that from reading the article. I will probably read it again in a few hours 

[(sic)]

As I said in the other thread, THIS STUFF IS MASSIVE. I genuinely don't remember the last time I got so excited for any game's reveal. 

The new engine is going to address a ton of stuff, from performance stuff, graphics, UI, possibly ME?, it's going to transform the game completely.

I'm still probably going to buy FM24 just because they actually communicated about what they have in store for us in the future. 

FM25 is finally gonna be a new game, rather than a slight reskin of what was there for the past 10-15 years. 

 

[RussoTuristo]

I really hope they won't mess this up

Otherwise it would be a HUGE flop like EFootball

[fc.cadoni]

Pretty happy to read what I have read and with decisions. DICE did the revamp after Bad Company II leaving some users in the dust, same apply to SI. That means, I have to upgrade my hardware which is quite old (i8 8550U) and looking forward to do this. It's time to unlock the full PA of Football Manager.

+1 for SI today 

[DP]

Just glad there’s some honest communication for once. It’s not difficult and it gets a lot of people onside. 

Now we know 24 will be a slight evolution on 23, similar UI etc, which I’ll absolutely take knowing that 25 will be a sequel. I may not buy 24 but I’ll be waiting for any news on 25 which sounds like it’ll come sooner and include some of those revolutionary changes we’re all waiting for.

Bravo on some open discussion, it’s refreshing to see. 

[ajw10]

No women's football until 25 is really disappointing. Nice of SI to finally acknowledge that 23 was so poor, but it has put me off buying 24 if I'm honest

[HighFlyingDwarf]

I'm pleased with the radical changes. Most definitely needed.

Importing saves from one game to another is going to be interesting. It will pretty much radically change how I approach things on a season by season basis since I'll almost never start a new game now if this is actually coming.

I do, however, sincerely hope that the squad planner is revamped or put back to how the squad depth page used to be. An utterly horrid waste of time as it stands currently.

 

[Swindon69]

The forward look to 25 made interesting reading - a strong suggestion that the whole matchday experience will be better. I think 23 is my least played iteration of the game - hopefully there'll be enough in future years to rekindle my interest. I also liked that it's been made clear that min specs will be uplifted and this information will be released as soon as they can.

[Dreambuilder]

Love this news. Most of all I would like a "live" database that updates more than like twice a year. Not sure this is possible but perhaps goes hand in hand with game as a service. 

[kevhamster]

19 minutes ago, RussoTuristo said:

I really hope they won't mess this up

Otherwise it would be a HUGE flop like EFootball

SI's business depends on FM being a success.  eFootball is just a throwaway free-to-play game for a developer/publisher that no longer cares.  There's a huge difference.

I'd expect FM25 to be buggier than normal, at least at the start, due to the massive changes coming into it, but I'd also expect it to be very good.

[Brother Ben]

Carrying over saves is an absolute game changer.  I bought FM23 but went back to 22 because I missed the save I was doing.

Excellent news

[harrycarrie]

I love this series, have done since CM2. I will wait for FM25 before passing any judgement as we have heard hyperbole a number of times regarding previous iterations of the game. With the stagnant, broken state of recent releases it'll take some doing to bring that trust back for me.

 

Sounds positive, but words often are. I hope 25 is fantastic, I really really do as I miss playing the game but it just frustrates me way beyond any enjoyment these days.

[samrnpage]

Massive massive news and very positive, my main question is:

My save is using a custom database, will that be able to be moved over to FM24 (I assume it will just be like copy and pasting a game file over to a new computer?)?

[themadsheep2001]

The best thing about this announcement is the lead up time to FM25. Gives plenty of people on lower powered machines fair warning to move on up. 

[themadsheep2001]

The one thing I'd probably say to everyone is, they probably won't be able to answer the vast majority of your questions, not yet anyway. That's not to say they aren't worth leaving, as it will no doubt be useful

[Maviarab]

Ability to continue saves, unimportant to me as play with a multitude of databases and edits....I guess the 'majority' just play the simple base game...I could never do that.  Women's football, I watch the WC games but otherwise, not exciting to me.  New game completely...definitely and long, long, long overdue.  Hopefully with this all the stupid interactions and nonsensiical rubbish has been removed or seriously updated along with it.  Graphical...fantastic.  Been my biggest bugbear over FM.

I said a while ago I thought thast the introduction of the women's game might coincide with a whole new game, engine etc.  Good stuff, a move in the right direction.

[arnoldinho]

I too really appreciated the honesty - both about what's coming and what hasn't worked to date. It gives me more confidence about the future of the franchise and frankly makes me more likely to continue to support it by buying FM24 even if I know a big change is coming the year after.

A graphics overhaul and the ability to carry saves over from version to version are both really big deals for me (currently mainly still playing FM20 - small kids mean playtime very limited!). And I'm really pleased to see the women's football pledge being followed through.

I hope that a once-in-two-decades overhaul also allows for some fundamentals about how the game works to be revisited, and that the community can be brought in to this discussion. Not just feature requests but what is it that will create a platform for the game to continue improving over the next decade or more. The sorts of things I'm thinking about are:

- The level of simulation realism in FM is incredible but can also be overwhelming and means it takes a long time to play. Could there be an overhaul of how the different 'modules' (for want of a better term) within the game work to allow you to really customise your FM experience. For those who want a full simulation and enjoy micro-management, you can turn on everything (training, press conferences, player interactions, data analysts etc). For those who want something faster or that's more like a game they can turn those off (yes I know I can delegate a lot to your assman but player morale is still affected by what they say at press conferences, wonderkid progression still reduced if they screw up U18 training etc). Or anything in between based on the individual player's preferences.

- Online options have improved in recent years with fantasy draft, but still feel like they are add-ons to a game designed in an era where less was online rather than something that is fully integrated in to the game. I'd hope a whole new version would offer some fairly fundamentally different ways to play including centrally hosted online servers that can accommodate larger numbers of players than a home-hosted network game, and where time advances automatically and some features are disabled in order to ensure a faster game experience.

I hope the community can be a part of such big picture discussions about what sort of game they want for the next decade, not just invited to throw in specific feature requests. That would really build on the excellent start of today's blog.

[davehanson]

Communication is key in any business or industry. The fact that Miles, and the team, have come out and owned the fact that FM23 isn’t really as good as it should have been is highly commendable. 
 

As someone said above after reading all that I am already excited for FM25. The fact they have also communicated well that FM24 will be an improvement but the massive leap comes with FM25 is brilliant too - we know where the series is headed.

Cant wait. Well done SI 👍

[Weed07]

I'm excited for FM25, time to start saving for a new PC to be able to run it.

Not convinced FM24 will be much of an upgrade on FM23, it'll be interesting to see what the new features will be but the biggest ones may be getting saved for FM25.

Being able to continue a save on the next version is good as in the past I've had saves I would have liked to continue, I just hope that they fix long term AI squad building and player development so that it makes it viable to keep a save going over multiple versions, currently saves get stale long term because AI teams don't keep up with human teams and fill their squad with older players while not giving youth game time to improve. Also while carrying a save over might be good, it might also make it seem like less of a new version so not sure if I would carry on a save or start over but either way its a good addition.

[santy001]

4 minutes ago, arnoldinho said:

- The level of simulation realism in FM is incredible but can also be overwhelming and means it takes a long time to play. Could there be an overhaul of how the different 'modules' (for want of a better term) within the game work to allow you to really customise your FM experience. For those who want a full simulation and enjoy micro-management, you can turn on everything (training, press conferences, player interactions, data analysts etc). For those who want something faster or that's more like a game they can turn those off (yes I know I can delegate a lot to your assman but player morale is still affected by what they say at press conferences, wonderkid progression still reduced if they screw up U18 training etc). Or anything in between based on the individual player's preferences.

This was something I had long been a supporter of myself. There was a discussion from someone at SI and while there are positive merits to the idea, functionally it would mean each possible combination of settings would need to be tested extensively to the extent that it would be the equivalent to sustaining additional versions of the game. Bugs would have to be categorised on which settings they do/do not impact etc. It's possibly something to hope for in the future, but would be a substantial challenge to implement with how the game works in more recent times.

[arnoldinho]

1 minute ago, santy001 said:

This was something I had long been a supporter of myself. There was a discussion from someone at SI and while there are positive merits to the idea, functionally it would mean each possible combination of settings would need to be tested extensively to the extent that it would be the equivalent to sustaining additional versions of the game. Bugs would have to be categorised on which settings they do/do not impact etc. It's possibly something to hope for in the future, but would be a substantial challenge to implement with how the game works in more recent times.

Now you mention it, I think I remember that discussion. I suppose what I'm saying is that I'd hope a blank sheet of paper would allow the foundations of the game to be designed in such a way that this sort of approach could be built in from day one, not have to be retro-fitted in a difficult way that required tons of testing. I'm on very shaky ground here as I know nothing about programming (!) but I guess its part of my wider point that a big revamp should be a chance to look at under-the-hood fundamentals.

[samrnpage]

11 minutes ago, Maviarab said:

Ability to continue saves, unimportant to me as play with a multitude of databases and edits....I guess the 'majority' just play the simple base game...I could never do that.  Women's football, I watch the WC games but otherwise, not exciting to me.  New game completely...definitely and long, long, long overdue.  Hopefully with this all the stupid interactions and nonsensiical rubbish has been removed or seriously updated along with it.  Graphical...fantastic.  Been my biggest bugbear over FM.

I said a while ago I thought thast the introduction of the women's game might coincide with a whole new game, engine etc.  Good stuff, a move in the right direction.

Do you think having a low level league database would affect that saves ability to move to the new game?

[Junkhead]

Game changing stuff.  Gave FM23 a miss having gotten into a save on FM22 just before release.  Had already decided to buy FM24 because a team really local to me has been promoted to a playable league for the first time ever and I was looking forward to a long save with them.  Will either be an even longer save or held off a year, depending on what is happening with my current save.

Doubt that games with edits will be transferable, but hope I'm wrong.

[DarJ]

28 minutes ago, samrnpage said:

My save is using a custom database, will that be able to be moved over to FM24

That is a good question 

[Miek]

The big FM revamps have always been huge improvements so really looking forwards to these. First time ever I felt FM was a  bit stale this year but this announcement changes everything. Awesome news! 

[João14]

39 minutes ago, arnoldinho said:

- The level of simulation realism in FM is incredible but can also be overwhelming and means it takes a long time to play. Could there be an overhaul of how the different 'modules' (for want of a better term) within the game work to allow you to really customise your FM experience. For those who want a full simulation and enjoy micro-management, you can turn on everything (training, press conferences, player interactions, data analysts etc). For those who want something faster or that's more like a game they can turn those off (yes I know I can delegate a lot to your assman but player morale is still affected by what they say at press conferences, wonderkid progression still reduced if they screw up U18 training etc). Or anything in between based on the individual player's preferences.

Don't FM Console/Touch meet your requirements? I was on that position, hoping that in the future (FM Touch/Console 25) we get rid of the 30 year limit so it can be my daily driver again

[CaptainSa]

One thing people should be prepared for is for the match engine to actually be a worse game of football, despite better graphics. It took a couple of iterations for the 3d engine to find its groove.

Overall though, excited, despite the mention of a "Games as a Service" model.

[Matteo3champions]

But with FM 25 there will be a completely different gameplay, or the most news regards the match engine and the UI components? 

[Malicious Penguin]

The communication is good, but I still feel underwhelmed by the announcement; the ME/visuals of it aren't what drive me. 

6 minutes ago, João14 said:

Don't FM Console/Touch meet your requirements? I was on that position, hoping that in the future (FM Touch/Console 25) we get rid of the 30 year limit so it can be my daily driver again

I'm somewhere between the 2; FMT has too much bloat now/I feel it's just click continue, play game, continue as the alternative to the bloat, and FMM is too fiddly for my fingers!

[greenz81]

Sounds positive... but with regards to FM24, will the set-pieces be updated? Will FM24 be FM23.5 with regards to basically bug fixing and updating player data? I really hope they push the boat out with FM24, considering the graphics are just a representation of the code telling its ´story. 

My biggest gripe with FM in general is the 'disconnect' with player/club/media interactions. I think of it like an RPG game now. I understand FM is a football simulation, but it SI are pushing the RPG aspect with it with regards to players interacting with the AI.

Im praying FM24 finally connects all features so they are all in sync.

Thanks for the update SI

[Alejandro_FM]

1 hour ago, arnoldinho said:

- The level of simulation realism in FM is incredible but can also be overwhelming and means it takes a long time to play. Could there be an overhaul of how the different 'modules' (for want of a better term) within the game work to allow you to really customise your FM experience. For those who want a full simulation and enjoy micro-management, you can turn on everything (training, press conferences, player interactions, data analysts etc). For those who want something faster or that's more like a game they can turn those off (yes I know I can delegate a lot to your assman but player morale is still affected by what they say at press conferences, wonderkid progression still reduced if they screw up U18 training etc). Or anything in between based on the individual player's preferences.

I think this is a really critical aspect of catering to a wider audience (which they want to do). Varying levels of micro-management, time spent in the game, should not feel like tradeoffs for the user. They should not be achieved by delegating tasks. They should be different game modes - GM/DoF Mode, Coach Mode, Sandbox Mode (in which you customize what you experience and control perhaps). These modes are important to accommodate different playing styles, and also for role-playing and immersion. 

[Federico]

This is the kind on information I personally needed terribly to make me fall in love again with the series. I'm honest by saying I have put single digit hours with the last two editions, but now this mid-long term project makes me feel enthusiastic about the future of FM and eager to play FM 24. It's like having the perspective of drinking a fresh glass of water while wandering into deep Sahara and can't wait for it!

[XaW]

Great announcement, always think transparency is a good thing for developers, and this was much needed now. Looking forward to getting more information as we get closer (for both FM24 and FM25), and seeing how the major step up to FM25 will look and feel.

[Gary James]

For save games to be transferable from one version to another we will need to be able to add/remove leagues and their players from within a save.

What I mean is I play with all leagues and players loaded as it helps to make transfer prices etc more realistic imo. But if I transfer to a new fm and they have lost the license foe 5 leagues and replaced with another 5 then I would habe a smaller database of teams/players and it would lose some of the realism.

[EdL]

6 minutes ago, Gary James said:

For save games to be transferable from one version to another we will need to be able to add/remove leagues and their players from within a save.

What I mean is I play with all leagues and players loaded as it helps to make transfer prices etc more realistic imo. But if I transfer to a new fm and they have lost the license foe 5 leagues and replaced with another 5 then I would habe a smaller database of teams/players and it would lose some of the realism.

It won't affect what leagues are in your save

[samrnpage]

3 minutes ago, EdL said:

It won't affect what leagues are in your save

So if we have downloaded the level 10 england FML file, and nothing else, that will be fine?

[Gary James]

3 minutes ago, EdL said:

It won't affect what leagues are in your save

That's good to hear. If we could add any new ones tmas we'll then I'd be happy.

Not that I wouldn't be happy with all the other improvements anyway.

[kingjericho]

This is probably the most honest text I've read from MJ. He finally admitted what the hardcore fanbase claimed about the last couple of iterations. Lack of development.

I'm very excited for the new chapter in FM25, it's a new look which is long overdue.

Basically they're already saying that FM24 won't have much news, possibly just the save compatibility and not much else, but I rather have this kind of honest communication than trying to justify lackluster announcements like in recent years.

[Harper]

2 hours ago, jmb1403 said:

It would be a great idea but are they saying that the next years game will not be improved much on the previous year? (ie. to make the save compatible it will need to be in a similar state?)

I inferred that the features that got dropped from FM23 were behind schedule and effectively delayed to FM24. I wouldn’t expect a GUI overhaul, but I do anticipate some new features.

 

[Marko1989]

Can't wait for FM 2025, maybe we will finally have 3D graphics that are not from the late 90s as it is now

I can now peacefully play my FM 2021 save until then

[rrreee3]

5 hours ago, DarJ said:

For those that read the article what do you think about it. This year a lot of people have asked for more transparency regarding the future of the game and this is a good step in the right direction.

Regarding the announcements they are huge the ability to carry saves over alone is impressive but from the way it was written it seems you will only be able to carry over from the previous year so if I bought FM 23 for example and the next version I buy is FM26 I won't be able to carry over my FM 23 save into FM26.

The change to unity is nice since there are a lot of games that run on that, women football in FM25 is interesting while I don't care for it IRL unless I see it randomly on TV it's something I can see myself playing a lot because I like playing in obscure leagues.

I wasn't going to buy FM24 but the fact I can carry over a save from FM23 may have already convinced me.

It's a great move, they almost didn't add anything new to the game and focus on fixing the swarm of bugs and glitches that's been plaguing the game for years. This way the workflow of FM25 will be easier and faster because they can worry less about adding new features that could potentially break old features. It comes with a short-term drought of new features but in the long run this decision could be pivotal for the game dev process

Edited June 28, 2023 by rrreee3

[Domoboy23]

Sounds promising, also slightly worrying.

We've seen how much quality can drop and how many bugs and knock on effects can appear even from small changes from one patch to another, never mind one version of FM with small changes to another nevermind when making big changes. Also a bit worried around carrying a save from one version to another, surely the new ME from one version would have knock on effects? (For example a player playing really well on one ME to another)

I just hope the line around putting something in place and working on improvements for longer-term players (such as 30/40 year saves) is adhered to and a lot of the changes aren't simply going to be to appeal to new one season customers. 

In all honesty I'd be quite happy with all the legacy bugs from the current UI being sorted, a revamped interaction system and the pitch textures being sorted. I also don't think you'll be able to replicate the feel of real football until you inject some passion and side-stories in there stemming from player square ups, elbows, headbutts and brawls on the pitch (even if not able to do this with real players for whatever reason, put it in so a team full of newgens can brawl with a team full of other newgens).

[JordanMilly]

2 hours ago, kevhamster said:

I'd expect FM25 to be buggier than normal, at least at the start, due to the massive changes coming into it, but I'd also expect it to be very good.

I dunno, Unity has a much larger documentation and standardisation of certain parts of its coding, and isn't not a decade old unique game engine that's had bits and pieces bolted onto it. I'd hope it'd be easier to bug test it and find issues because of this, plus being able to work with a well-known engine and building things from the start again means less bolt-ons that call back to random bits of code that has knock-on effects on several parts of the game.

I'm optimistic, and looking forward to seeing how this new FM will work.

FM24 is sounding good too, means I'm less likely to just stop playing FM in the last month or two of the cycle, because I can just carry my save over to the new game.

 

32 minutes ago, Harper said:

I inferred that the features that got dropped from FM23 were behind schedule and effectively delayed to FM24. I wouldn’t expect a GUI overhaul, but I do anticipate some new features.

 

That's how I interpreted it too, and with those features having an extra year to be worked on, hopefully they'll be significantly better. I've honestly been really enjoying FM23, so I'm looking forward to both 24 and 25.

 

2 hours ago, samrnpage said:

Massive massive news and very positive, my main question is:

My save is using a custom database, will that be able to be moved over to FM24 (I assume it will just be like copy and pasting a game file over to a new computer?)?

I'd expect so, since all the info is included in the save. You can give someone else your save and they can play it with the custom database stuff in it, even without having the edited database themselves.

[janrzm]

Great news. I almost shed a tear reading that. I particularly appreciated the reference to FM23's feature set and acknowledgment that some of those didn't "didn't hit the mark"

Firstly the decision to proactively keep us in the loop on development and the games direction is huge to me. I've always said I don't need the nitty gritty just an acknowledgement that certain elements are there in the pipeline. I've always felt that if you tell your audience what you are working towards there's an increased conscious and subconscious effort to deliver it and the option of just dropping something out because it's incomplete in some way becomes harder to take. Secondly, the biggest thing for me personally is the match day visuals so I'm ecstatic about the proposed improvements there as well as newgens which have always been an obstacle to long term saves. Hopefully the studio is embracing AI developments so we can improve those aspects of gameplay. 

Totally unexpected and I'm certain it will be a huge positive for all. 

[latrell]

i am scared its the end of era and the game will never be the same maybe fm23 is my last stand and i stay with it till the day i die and update it myself 

[robot_skeleton]

48 minutes ago, samrnpage said:

So if we have downloaded the level 10 england FML file, and nothing else, that will be fine?

Would be good to know, I am also very interested.