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  1. 9 points
    @ilkorkIf you didn't want those kind of replies, perhaps you shouldn't have put forward that kind of statement. It detracts massively from the validity of any other point you are making. To address your initial point, I think the system is definitely not perfect, and the distribution of particular attributes (bravery and jumping, for example) is mostly erratic and should be improved, but I think you fundamentally misunderstand the concept of having random attributes. For a start, speaking from a researcher's perspective, it is impossible to know all the attributes of all the players under your wing. I would expect the senior and most prominent players to have mostly realistic attributes, but it is quite hard to assess youths unless you are a regular attendee of their games. If you are, I've found that most researchers are happy to be given assistance, as it's just impossible to know everything about all the players. Leaving attributes as 0 will ensure the game generates realistic attributes when a new game is started, based in part on their CA, in part on their position(s) and in part on the weighting assigned for each attribute for their main position. If you undertake a comparison exercise between 2 new games with unedited data, there will invariably be some differences in the attribute spread of even the same player, precisely because his attribute profile is random. Additionally, there a number of other factors. For each position, as you are well aware, there are a number of roles. Unless otherwise specified, the game also randomises the best role for the player, which impacts on the spread, distribution and generation of attributes. When selecting a role for a random player, some may not know that the game also takes into consideration national player characteristics. For example, the game recognises that real-life Brazilian football hardly ever produces typical touchline-dust-on-your-boots wingers while, on the other hand, British clubs will often have a technically-limited but lion-hearted centre-half rather than a silky ball-playing defender. This is not a hard-and-fast rule, since real-life is also not as rigid as this, but it is noticeable. As you can see, what you simply see as an exercise in assigning numbers to attributes is a much more nuanced and thought-through process, based on a whole host of factors. For example the below is reasoning that I find quite limiting and frankly one I disagree with completely. You are of course free to edit the data in your game whichever way you want, but assuming that the below reflects real life in any way is quite detached from reality, I'm sorry to say. CA and PA are not, and in my opinion absolutely should not, be tied to individual attributes or even positions as you seem to be doing. I'm afraid I also disagree with your apparent concept of having players' attributes being consistently high in the most important attributes for their positions. If a player has a CA of 55, it does not necessarily mean that he is an inferior copy of a better player (i.e. 10 instead of 15, 8 instead of 13 etc.). Life, and football, isn't that easy and straight-forward. For me, a CA of 55 means that he presently has some significant defects in his game. Maybe, he's a short DC whose positioning is poor, maybe he's a slow target man whose touch lets him down very often, maybe he's a very lazy and slow playmaker who prefers to dribble rather than look for the pass etc. etc. I've played irl with players like this who still forged a decent career by either changing position to minimize their defects or by improving their strengths to the extent that weaknesses could be glossed over or by being used in formations where both these aspects are addressed, and I absolutely think that players like this should be generated by the game, both from players in the starting database with random attributes and also in newgens. The variety and range of players irl is part of the beauty of the game, and proposing some kind of standardising in FM to somehow reflect real-life is detached from reality and somewhat indicative of a dearth of knowledge, I'm sorry to say again. For example, I may be completely wrong, but for me the below is not a CA55 player, at all: The above is also not taking into account his hidden attributes, his height and weight, and also his age, which reflects how a player should be assessed. Apart from below average anticipation, determination and speed (none of which are disastrous, mind you), that there is a decent limited defender and one who I would be delighted to get as a youth candidate at anywhere other than top clubs. I'm at work, so I can't check right now, but I'd bet that inputting those attributes into the pre-game editor would give you a player who the game would estimate at 70-80 CA, give and take. With a good PA, some good tutoring and judicious match practice, I think a youngster like that could easily develop into an established top-flight player in Greece, maybe even an international. To me, a player like that is very much the exception, and absolutely not an average run-of-the-mill youngster. The starting point of this thread was your evaluation of the apparent non-randomness of attribute spread for players with no attributes input into the default database. In this case, your knowledge of Greek players is completely irrelevant to be honest. A player with the above attributes could be Greek, could be Italian, could be French or could be Maltese. However, if you think that, based on your knowledge of the above player, that his profile in the database should look like that, I am obviously not in a position to argue. If you believe that you can help with Greek research in general or for a specific club, then by all means do contact your Greek head researcher to offer your assistance. Given the research guidelines, however, I do suspect, that any assessment you may make similar to the above, based on non-factual arguments, will be shot down quite quickly, and quite rightly too. To conclude, I think the way the game randomises players right now is quite acceptable, if open to a bit more tweaking. You get the rare good player, some average ones and a lot of poor players or ones with glaring defects. I don't know an exact percentage, but the overwhelming majority of youth players at all but the top clubs end up being out of the game a few years after being given their first professional contract, and this is something that FM does quite well I think. Again, I'm not saying there isn't margin for improvement. Too often in the game, I see released youngsters demanding high wages and not being willing to compromise downwards once some time passes and they still remain unattached, to the extent that some end up retiring. I'm not saying this doesn't happen irl, I just think that irl at some point they'd adjust their asking wages downwards in order to find a club.
  2. 9 points
    "For the past twelve years, every time I have asked him who he thinks is the weak link in the opposition he has said 'No comment.' I should ask him again today anyway, just in case."
  3. 6 points
    The usual manager routine: show up at her matches (family reunions), unrest her by going to the press (tag her in my fb), showing off our superior facillities (washing and cooking) and keeping a good relation with her agent (mother in law). Granted, chocolate and various cheap but thoughtfull presents might have a part in this.
  4. 5 points
    I've been thinking for a little while about writing another tactical / strategy article, which I haven't really done since FM16. I did do a club write up about West Ham earlier in the year, found in the Good Player & Team Guide forum, but that wasn't really about tactics. At first I had thought of putting up an article about a 4-4-2 narrow diamond system I'd developed with West Ham, but I felt it was going to be a little formulaic. Then I had an idea for something a little different - a journey man type of save, but focusing on tactical development as I get into each new club: how to start off and then evolve the tactical systems. As an extra challenge, I'd also set a goal of not using the same formation at each club I end up at. That should give some extra variety in showing my thought process, and hopefully not become too boring for anyone who reads it. Arguably this thread should be in the FM Career Updates forum, but I'll be keeping it primarily focused on tactical development, along with some squad development and training info. So, I'm starting this journey man save unemployed (although with fairly decent starting rep, I don't want to start at the very bottom) with leagues from Argentina, Brazil, England, Germany, Italy and Spain loaded. We'll see where it takes me.
  5. 5 points
  6. 5 points
    Sarcasm and personal digs have no place here. Cut it out.
  7. 4 points
    I'm not stating that that role doesn't function like it's intended to. It does what the game promises. I just used it as an example, because mentality-wise, a DF(D) in a contain-very fluid is the most defensive striker role, and even that striker doesn't get behind the ball most of the time. No criticism. Just an observation. Not everybody plays like Atlético, that's for sure, but it's not a rarity that strikers get behind the ball either. Juventus does it often, under Marcelino, Villareal did it either, multiple teams do. Not everybody plays like Man City either, but still, the IWB exists in FM. Not everybody has Thomas Muller or Juan Roman Riquelme in his team, but still, the raumdeuter and the enganche are player roles in FM. You get my point. :-)
  8. 4 points
    I'm honestly not tempted to take control because I haven't suddenly decided to play like this. It has been a slow evolution that has led me to this. Quite simply though, yes, I absolutely agree that performances would be increased, but I can probably progress 5 seasons playing this way in the time that it would take me to play just 1 season taking control of matches. I would FAR prefer to progress forwards 5 years than have 1 super-season. Yes, what you are describing might indeed give me a boost in the rankings that would unlock the 4.0 rep, but by the same token it might not, and instead this might be unlocked by 5 seasons playing "my way". There is no right or wrong in this, there is just what is. I'm actually really enjoying this way because it allows me to focus on the parts of the game that others don't get an opportunity to see without getting bogged down in the minutiae of individual results. I don't want this save to be defined by a single event like winning something that can easily be replicated by winning 1 trophy that can be done by any who reloads enough times. I want to try and do something that others can't do because it's too hard or takes too much effort. Yes I could theoretically go and edit all the player personalities to whatever I want, but where is the fun in that? You would soon get bored. In the back of my mind I want to eventually work out how to create a Model Citizen from another type of player. I just have to first identify the player within which it will be possible, and then make the right decisions. Where as other saves are about winning this or winning that, I can promise you that once you have won the Champions League with San Marino club side and the World Cup with San Marino National side, these individual accomplishments don't seem quite so challenging. If you look at every single Youth Intake I have done, (I think right from the beginning of the save), you will see 2 columns to the right hand side of the page. One of these is Determination and the other is workrate. It's not that I don't value them and more that I don't value them for the purposes of specifically developing Youth Players. Of course I am aware of the effectiveness of both workrate and determination within a game situation, but that's not what this save is about. Within any save there are obviously goals that you set that you want to achieve before the end of this save. Quite often this will be to get a cub to a certain level, or to win a particular trophy or something like that. As I have mentioned already, I haven't really been driven by that since my San Marino save. (Been there seen it and done it), so now I have other goals within a save like this that challenge me. Let me list some of them. Not concede a single goal in a domestic league season. (Not achieved). I think the least I have conceded is 4 off the top of my head, although I haven't really concentrated very much at all on this. Earn as many Steam achievements as possible. Generate a son in the game. (Not achieved). Win the domestic quadruple. (Achieved). Beat the individual player all time record for goals in the (ISL) Premier League. (Achieved). Beat the individual player all time record for appearances in the (ISL) Premier League. (Not Achieved). Create such a successful Academy that every player in an AI selected (ISL) Senior National Team squad is a a product of our Academy. (Achieved). Have a product of our Academy shortlisted for the Ballon d'or. (Not Achieved). Have a product of our Academy win the Ballon d'or. (Not Achieved). This single action here is probably the ultimate goal for the whole save. Have a product of our Academy named in the World Team of the Year. (Not Achieved). Have a product of our Academy named in the World Team of the Year while still playing at the club. (Not Achieved). Have a product of our Academy win the World Player of the Year award. (Not Achieved). Have a product of our Academy win the World Player of the Year award while still playing at the club. (Not Achieved). Have a GK score more goals than whatever my previous record is, (without using the editor). (Not Achieved). This is not going to be achieved in this save because we simply don't pay enough games. Produce a player that is classed as a Wonderkid at another club. (Achieved). Produce a player that is classed as a Wonderkid while still at our club. (Achieved). Produce a player that is classed as Worldclass at another club. (Not Achieved). Produce a player that is classed as Worldclass while still at our club. (Not Achieved). Develop a player to Model Pro from something else. (Achieved). Develop 10 players to Model Pro from something else. (Achieved). Have all Senior players, (over 23 years old), to be either Model Pro or Resolute. (Not Achieved). Have a Model Pro player come through the Academy. (Not Achieved). Find a Model Citizen Newgen elsewhere in the game and study the circumstances in which he was generated. (Not Achieved). Develop a Model Citizen. (Not Achieved). Get to the Group Stages of the Europa League. (Achieved). Get to the Knockout Stages of the Europa League. (Achieved). Win the Europa League. (Not Achieved). Get to the Group Stages of the Champions League. (Achieved). Get to the Knockout Stages of the Champions League. (Achieved). Win the Champions League. (Not Achieved). Have (ISL) win something while managed by the AI. (Not Achieved). Win the U19 World Cup with (ISL). (Not Achieved). With the U20 World Cup with (ISL). (Not Achieved). WIn the U21 EURO's with (ISL). (Not Achieved). Qualify for the Olympics with (ISL). (Not Achieved). Win the Olympics with (ISL). (Not Achieved). Win the World Cup with (ISL). (Not Achieved). With the Confederations Cup with (ISL). (Not Achieved). Score 20 goals in a season with a player. (Achieved). Score 20 league goals in a season with a player. (Achieved). Score 30 goals in a season with a player. (Achieved). Score 30 league goals in a season with a player. (Not Achieved). Score 40 league goals in a season with a player. (Achieved). Score 40 league goals in a season with a player. (Not Achieved). Score 50 goals in a season with a player. (Not Achieved). Score 50 league goals in a season with a player. (Not Achieved). Have a new stadium built. (Achieved). Have a new stadium named after me. (Not Achieved). Remain unbeaten for a full league campaign. (Achieved). The reality is the the goals within the save are constantly changing as I think of them and I'm sure I have missed loads off the above list. The main and ultimate goal is for a product of our Academy to with the Ballon d'or. In a nutshell that's what this save is all about. I don't know of anyone who has seen a player come through their own Academy and then gone on to be the best player in the World without cheating. It might well have been done, but I don't remember reading about it. There is no amount of winning games and re-loading games again and again, (as is common-place nowadays in certain circles), that is going to let you achieve what I am hoping to achieve. There are no shortcuts without the use of the editor, (and I hope that the way I structure the save removes any suspicion of me doing so). By completely taking away the results of individual games I am sort of disengaging from the win at all cost mentality that a lot of people seem to get caught up in. I play this game because I enjoy it and because I find it a wonderful way to relax. I didn't used to find it quite so relaxing when stupid GK errors used to cause me to lose this competition or that trophy. I just take all the stress and strain away from the game and make it..... a journey.
  9. 4 points
    Haha. I know this won't surprise anyone but I have actually re-trained an outfield player to play in goal. It was back in about FM12 and I had a big SC who was had some sort of ability in goal. I re-trained him as a GK for ages until he popped to natural as GK, but then what happened is that his Outfield profile changed to a GK profile and I effectively lost him as a player, (because he was actually a rubbish GK when his GK profile appeared).
  10. 4 points
    Football taught by Hakan Telleus: https://strikerless.com/2017/06/06/taking-hipster-football-from-six-to-midnight/ (h/t @Guimy)
  11. 4 points
    It's going to get a lot worse for Nelson when he realizes that the groom looks exactly like him...but is 3 inches shorter.
  12. 4 points
    I’ve been thinking about how we flatten the learning curve for FM and I keep coming back to a “training wheels” approach. Loki Doki’s recent video inspired me to finally write up how I think it might look. Assume that I’m a new player, I’ve created my manager profile and I’m ready to pick a team to manage. There’s a big friendly button, or a checkbox or something saying “Tutorial”. When the tutorial starts, it defaults to my picked favourite team before the final game of the previous season. I get a welcome email from the team’s current manager, maybe the board, saying how pleased they are I’ve joined them etc. My manager tells me he wants me to get familiar with the squad and run training. He outlines a quick tour of the interface and says I’m free to poke around, but the first thing he wants me to look at is training for the team. Maybe there’s a quick blurb to look at what he’s trying to do with the tactic and what he suggests the team focus on. I can now look at any screen. The Tactics screen will have my AI manager’s preferred tactic loaded and the team already picked. The only screen I can change things on at this stage is training. When I load that screen up the popup question marks go into a bit of detail around what I can change here, and I can set training any way I like. Once that’s done, another big “?” over the continue button. I hit continue, and there’s another email. “Good stuff, I think you’re doing well on the training ground, but I think a couple of our players would benefit from some additional focus.” There’s a bit more text about attributes, which ones the manager thinks are most important for a couple positions and then it’s off to the squad screen, getting familiar with players and choosing some individual training for them. Continue again, and another email comes in about an upcoming fixture. This is the intro to the schedule screen, and suggests looking at the opposition report from the scout. It also introduces some basic opposition analysis, and the tactics screen. The manager asks you to focus specifically on say a CM position, think about how it would fit into the overall tactic he’s already got set, and suggests based on what you’re seeing to pick a role and maybe some individual instructions for this one player. Quite a bit of time should be spent here just explaining some basic tactical concepts (e.g. the fluidity, mentality settings). Continue when ready… Match day, and you get to watch the game. Manager asks you to take the team talk (offers suggestions where normally the Assistant Manager would), and there’s a scripted injury where he asks you to substitute the player, and any others you think would be a good idea. There’s a quick intro to shouts as well. The day after the match there’s an email from the manager or data analyst (if your team employs one) giving you a quick tour of the analysis screens, and a note that these are also available during a match. When you continue past here, the manager introduces you to scouting, offering some suggestions from the chief scout. There’s a crash course in the finances screen as well, and after you continue a quick pop-up tour of the scout report. The manager asks you to make an offer for a player, which you negotiate with some popup hints, contract negotiations and then either once the player agrees or talks break down you continue again. At this point you get a notification from the board that the manager has moved on, been sacked, whatever, and they’d like you to take over on a one year deal. Tutorial over, good luck, it’s now 1st July of the current season and the team’s all yours. It probably needs work and there’s maybe a better way to order the screens being introduced, but I think something like this would be miles above the current approach which dumps you in front of a bunch of screens with text on them and asks you to look at those “?” icons.
  13. 4 points
    My personal feeling is in line with the general mood that difficulty levels would be hard to implement and perhaps would undermine the integrity of the game overall. However the issue of how accessible this game is to people is a huge one imo. Again I feel the most significant talking point in the discussion is the fact that everyone enjoys this game in a different way. From a personal perspective, tactics aren’t my favourite part of football and aren’t my favourite part of the game. The extent to which my experiences playing the game are increasingly determined by my understanding of FM’s tactical interface is causing me dissatisfaction. My greatest frustration is that I can create basic tactics and use them to meet the expectations of my team, but the more I try and be inventive the more I fail. So I’ve basically ended up playing the same 4-2-3-1 that I always use for the last 3 versions of the game. I have a basic ability to defend a lead and push for a goal, but I definitely wouldn’t describe myself as ‘good.’ And I’m a 20 year veteran of the series who is also very happy to lose and lose while still getting a lot of enjoyment from the game. I’ve also been lucky enough to go to more than a hundred live matches, and I’ve spent a lot of time reading and talking about football in general. I don’t feel able to translate any of this experience into controlling the game. So my worry is that actually maybe I am one of the people who IS good at the game? Relatively at least. Provided I use my 4-2-3-1 and play my journeyman career game long enough then I WILL win some leagues and cups, but it’s hard to know how much my experience and research is contributing to this when overall I kind of feel like a novice. Sometimes I have runs of play (not necessarily results) which make me question if I ever knew how to play the game, or whether during my previous good run I was actually just the beneficiary of some unknown factor that is now working against me. And that’s football, so maybe I shouldn’t complain. On the other hand, where should the line be drawn with realism? Perhaps it’s realistic that pinpointing the problem (or even the reason for success) should sometimes be impossible, but is this something that should be simulated? I’m not sure it’s fun. Similarly, if you take this issue to an extreme point and consider a perfect football tactics simulator, should I EVER be able to compete with an in-game Conte? A game where Conte is always better than me at tactics is realistic I will admit, however is it too real for me? Part of the reason I enjoy this game is to pretend that I’m good enough to be a football manager, and the bit of reality that demonstrates this as false is the exact part of the role that should not be simulated. The above is an exaggeration but consider this: the greater the challenge given to the user by the game, the more time the user will spend losing. If more people are losing more often then surely losing should be made more fun within the game? For example, if I am on the verge of getting the sack, what if there were experiences in the game that were unique to this and that were interesting/fun/compelling/absorbing in their own right? This could be things like fans holding a “Manager Out” banner in the 3D crowd. It would be a bad sign, but it would anchor and reinforce my story as reality. Compare your feelings, and subsequent attachment to your club, if the fans had actually brought a “In Manager we Trust” banner? What if your player scored a last minute winner to keep you up and he came over and HUGGED you?! Couldn’t that keep you loading up the game, if only for that one player? What if the sounds were improved and you could hear a chant from the opposition fans of “You’re getting sacked in the morning, etc.” If there were things like the above then I may play the game actually WANTING to lose. Isn’t that a crazy idea? Imagine someone came on here and said something like: “I just can’t win at FM. I’ve lost my last ten games and the fans are chanting for me to get sacked every match, and my captain just applauded them. I need serious help. Oh god now it’s even worse, the fans are outside the stadium demonstrating against my management, and they’ve kicked over the burger van.” Firstly, despite not having fun it’s at least hilarious. Secondly, I actually think people would be JEALOUS that they hadn’t experienced that, I know I would be. If the game can’t be made easier, and difficulty levels are out of the question, then I think making losing more fun would be a decent short term solution. (and an unsackable option in full fat mode) There are a couple of other issues in terms of the difficulty. Firstly, the game isn’t very helpful when it comes to constructing good tactics and there is a distinct lack of any kind of “principles of FM tactics” in-game guide. Secondly there are occasions where the game flat out contradicts either itself or the extensive tactical advice that exists on the game. For example ‘Set to formation’ includes some three defender formations which I don’t think are any team’s “Defensive Shape.” The last issue is one of too much freedom. If you go to the tactics screen you’ll find there is nothing stopping you from choosing totally absurd formations, such as a 2-2-2-2-2 with four players on each flank and two strikers, or a 0-1-3-3 with no-one out wide and no defending positions at all. This is what makes me think that the tactical interface still needs another revamp, because there are way too many bad choices easily available. For example, if playing with a ‘Winger – Attack’ on both flanks is inadvisable, what does that make playing with TWO ‘Winger – Attacks’ on EACH SIDE? Using a ‘Half Back’ in front of a 3-man defence is something that seems inadvisable, but what about using THREE ‘Half-Backs’ as a back three with NO players in the defensive strata? A little tidy up could solve this problem and it might contribute to making tactic creation and maintenance a less daunting task. Alternatively, perhaps we all just need a little bit of convincing to realise that while we may believe that we want fun, in actual fact what our lives are missing is the opportunity to spend more time reading. This post is obviously in the spirit of that message. Some people may say that football fans struggle to retain any information that doesn’t have the last word separated from the rest of the sentence by a single clap, but it could also be a profitable idea to further obfuscate the tactical controls and branch out into a range of footballing self-help books? For example, “The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Poachers,” “How to Win the Ball and Influence Play,” and “Sun Tzu’s Art of a £50million War Chest,” could all be big hits. We play FM and we play FM, We play FM and we play FM, We play FM and we play FM, We are the FM (*clap* ) PLAYERS!
  14. 4 points
    There was a new system put in for FM17 to counter low starting rep'd managers at big clubs. Essentially the users starting rep would dramatically increase the first three years if they remained in the high profile job to enable them to be of a suitable reputation for said club. What would happen is every year the user remains in charge they would increase by a percentage of the teams reputation. So say Sunday league user with a reputation of 1000 (out of 10000) takes over Man City who have a reputation of 9000. After the first season, the difference between Man City's score and the user's is used as a total and then added to the users reputation (on top of any reputation boosts they'd get generally, so for winning titles, big matches, manager awards etc). That means at the end of the season the user has a minimum reputation of 4000. Starting the second season with 4000 and we'll assume Man City retain their 9000 reputation. At the end of the second season, because of the difference of 5000, 2500 is added to the user's score taking them up to at least 6500. At the end of the second season, with the user on 6500 and Man City on 9000, half the difference is 1250 so that's added on again leaving the user manager with a reputation of roughly 7750, which is the level of a top-level manager. No more additions are made from this point aside from the usual (so competition results etc). If for some reason that isn't happening in your game it's a bug, but we'd need to see the saves at the end of each season to look at the reputation levels and find out what's going on.
  15. 3 points
    Telleus and Leto both select their respective sides: Galatasary and Ludogorets (“Because why not?” says Leto). Telleus sets out his Libero Overload formation he uses in real life. Leto, knowing nothing of the game, unleashes a bog standard four-two-three-one. He picks obscure player roles and instructions. Ramdeuter and Wide Target Man on each side. A Trequartista up front. An Engache in behind. “**** it, I'm just picking the ones that sound nice”, he remarks. Telleus, unsurprisingly, wins 6-0. They both laugh good-naturedly. Leto makes a comment about how Telleus must be “Hakan the game”. They both laugh some more. Leto has enough of hiding his anger following the annihilation of his now beloved Ludogorets. He beats Hakan to death with a metal chair.
  16. 3 points
  17. 3 points
  18. 3 points
    I'd like to suggest the introduction of sliders in the User Interface. Take the player profile page, where a snapshot of the current attributes are shown. At a glance I can see a player's strengths, weaknesses and opportunities - but how has he got to where he is? How has he developed since I snapped him up as a regen several years hence?! I know this is possible, to an extent - I can trend individual attributes (or several at once), on a graph. But a better way would be to add a slider, and as I move it to the left I see all the attributes on the player profile page appear to regress to what they were at the past historical date. I'd suggest exactly the same thing in the finances graphs - so I can see several months (or years) in the past what exactly my commercial income etc was.
  19. 3 points
    I apologize for the long post. I'd originally tried to post this and had a weird problem. Unfortunately I hadn't saved it in a processor so this version is significantly less methodical and more scatterbrain. Firstly, I would like to say that this isn't me saying FM sucks or anything. I think it's a wonderful programming feat that allows players to approach the simulation from multiple angles. I personally like to think of it as a financial and tactical simulator. And I might be one of the only people (from my readings) that enjoys watching each full match and making real time tweaks. Secondly, I should say that I've actually been wildly successful in every FM version that I've played (only started in 2011). For the past few additions I've setup a challenge for myself to become a financial dynasty by way of signing very cheap free-agents, transferring any expensive player, and investing in youth.. essentially having an extremely low wage bill while competing and Europe and selling players for vast profits (think of it as the Portuguese model). So this isn't me complaining but rather me reflecting on what FM could do better because I care. I think that reason that so many people are disgruntled with each annual edition of FM is because of the physical interpretation of the programming. When looking at posts over the years by extreme veteran players, the thing that I notice is that they tend to prefer playing without the 3D graphics and they also seem to be much more happy about the product. So I started to read more of the disgruntled player's posts and the correlation seems to be with the ME physical interpretation of the programming. In years past, if you played FM and read that a world-class dribbler easily pass your defender(s) you could visualize that happening in real life so you said fair play to the AI. Even when following the 2D visual it amounted to the same thing. However, when a player watches the 3D visual they may see a world-class dribbler easily pass their defender, but not because the player performed an amazing move but because the programming simply told their defender that they should stop. There are other examples of the ME poorly interpreting the physical programming such as: When a player randomly dribbles out of bounds with no pressure on them, a player heading the ball out of bands multiple times a match instead of simply controlling and trapping as they would in real life, players not running after a free ball because it hasn't entered their programming “zone”, players making a good dribble to open acres of space only to slow down to allow the AI to get in front of and tackle them, an exceptional passer missing an easy pass etc. We've all experienced these things so I need not continue (I hope). What I will say is that it even frustrates me to see my winger with the same role, stats, mentality, etc not dribble when I watch the AI's perform the programming the way that I would expect. I've even created two identical players with the result being the same. Now I understand that these actions are meant to be an interpretation of the mistakes that professional footballers make throughout the course of a match but they're almost a discredit to the pros. And I think it's what breeds the “FM is cheating” “FM sucks” “FM is too hard” crowd because watching a realistic mach and knowing it wasn't your day is completely different than watching programming and being left to wonder why the programming told your player to miss that easy through ball, stop dribbling, etc. Yes, players could try to go back to non-3D but A) once you've seen something it's hard to un-see it and B) FM keeps promoting the 3D visuals and physical interpretation of programming with each release. As an aside, during my test saves where I test different tactics, I've noticed that when watching full matches they tend to be more realistic and competitive. But as soon as I switch to only highlights (after I've seen what I want from a tactic) the other team will tend to start relatively dominating... meaning just doing far better in general even if I was destroying them 7-0. Suddenly they'll get open shots and clear cut chances. I say that's strange because I've read that the matches per-determined based on the variables we present so maintaining the same variables (no new players, dramatic AI tactical changes, etc) shouldn't suddenly alter things dramatically. Has anybody else experienced this? This is why I watch every match in my serious saves. TL:DR – Players that don't watch the match in 3D tend to have a more positive opinion of FM because they're visualizing real life matches and thus certain actions make sense. Players that watch in 3D tend to have a more negative opinion of FM because they're watching an unrealistic interpretation of football... obvious programming. Because of how the ME interprets things such as roles, programming zones, dribbling/passing in open space, etc. it can make it seem unfair to these players. And though I've had a ton of success in every version of FM that I've played, I think that those players at least have a legitimate gripe from that perspective. What are your thoughts and opinions.
  20. 3 points
    In this case, I can only speak for myself, but: for me, the purpose of getting strikers behind the ball is to create defensive zonal overloads. I don't like my teams to defend in 1 vs 1 battles. Then it's just a matter of who's the best individual. I want to create 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 battles. In the center of the pitch, the two strikers create an extra wall and compensate for the inherent advantage of a 4-4-2 vs a 4-1-2-2-1 or a 4-2-3-1, where it lacks bodies in the center of the pitch. If the ball is on the flanks, the striker nearby can assist the pressing left midfielder, left back and central midfielfder to close in the winger or the fullback of the opponent, whereas the other strikers blocks the passing lane to center back. (That's how I liked it as a football coach in real life.) In FM 17 terms, an extra reason would be to compensate for the (slight) gap between the CM's and the wide midfielders. Ideally, we would have the option to make the wide midfielders defend (much) narrower, so they can cover for pressing center midfielders (or vice versa). Now, in a 4-4-2, when the strikers are bypassed, the half spaces aren't closed. If a CM leaves his zone and doesn't win the ball, there's a huge central gap. With strikers behind the ball, the CM's can play more of a cover role. For me, the results don't lie. With a 4-4-2-0, I managed to get a clean sheet galore (record: 10 in a row with a relegation favorite), whereas I'm struggling to get consistent clean sheets with a 4-4-2. Not saying that it can't be done, but I find it (much) more difficult. Hope I made myself clear in a language that's not my forte. :-)
  21. 3 points
    Khotso le Nala v.2 - Peace and Prosperity This will be one of the last posts about tactics before I will return to some story of Nelson's exploits in Lesotho. As seen above Lioli are top of the table after winning 3, drawing 1 since Nelson joined. With just two games left meeting 3rd placed Liphakoe and 12th placed Sky Battalion in the last match hopes are high, since it can all be done this next round should LCS lose and Lioli win. As you can see, the tactic worked like a charm. They score on both of their only chances that hit the target, but tbh I can't really be bothered. We can't limit them completely and their chances were just as much flukes defensively as it was just quite effective attacking moves. Hit us on the counter and then attacked the first post beating our slowest defender to the ball. Keeper was sold at each occasions. Our own attacking moves were a true delight to see, and really promising. We had many shots that hit the target, and we had 5 CCC's and 6 half chances. Once again our possesion was just about even with our opponent but we played at such a tempo that we had just about 100 attempted passed more than they, and we succeeded with 10% more as well. So we are quick and precise to a far extent. Really impressive given the player material at hand. We don't win a lot of chances do, and still gets more cards than our opponent in this match. This is a mix of things I would assume. Not closing down allows them to dribble at us and we are not good tacklers so mistakes and poor tackles will happen, but I feel more confident in letting them attack us with the ball rather than attacking without the ball in the open spaces we leave when we close down ineffectively. I'd also assume we lose out on tackles since we don't close down as hard as our opponent so we lose challenges due to them coming with more power and then beating our players to the ball. We do win most headers, however. I would have liked to go through how this tactic worked on a more analytical point, but for some reason all categories under 'Analysis' is blank, so that won't be happening. I will show some of our best moves though. This move shows just how quick our transitions can be, and how effective as we go from our DCB at the half line, to our striker at the edge of the box who plays a through ball to our AMCR who is completely open (was he offside, though?) but sadly hits the keeper. Another one. A quick pass from our own half sends our striker running through on goal. He is composed and beats both marker and keeper and scores. Haing the high tempo of the TI's and some players with attacking roles makes this move happen. The high tempo is cutting out a lot of other easier options like the wide midfielder on his left and having *pass into space* active, makes the Poacher (this role is important too as he was ready to find the gaps and attack them) the focal point of the passer rather than an easy option nearby. He plays a high risk pass rather than dribbling or passing a safer ball. This ends up with a score, and despite it being high risk, there was not a big risk of getting a counter right after the pass as it was sent at the edge of the opponents box so early, so we still had many players behind the ball. I really like these small but quick passes in the opponents half. The last pass cuts through their ranks and then we have created trouble for them. Nkabane receives the ball and attacks the unsettled defence and gets a shot off, but it's saved by the keeper. There were more, but gifs are taking forever this instance, and I have to leave the apartment now. The league was settled, though.
  22. 3 points
    World Cup Post-Mortem Aftermath (KFA HQ, Seoul) KFA: So, David, we've called you here today to get your thoughts on the World Cup... DD: Oh yes, a fine tournament. Not a great one but the final was a thriller - injury time winner! And emerging stars - did you see that guy Mbah? Great talent. I knew he was going to make his mark. KFA: Granted, it was a good torunament but we wanted to focus on South Korea's performance... DD: Yes, it is clear that we were there and we performed. KFA: Well, we are disappointed that we were only fairly competitive and never really looked like qualifying. DD: We were competitive and and we were fair. I have always said that. And I was clear that we always had a chance right until the final whistle of the game. KFA: But we do have concerns about your ability to lead the national team. DD: I support the national team whole heartedly. It is a disgrace to say that you don't. KFA: Of course we support the national team. But the World Cup results have us concerned about the upcoming Asian Cup... DD: Well, I haven't been wasting my time worrying about what everyone will agree was a tough draw at the World Cup. I've been preparing this nation for the Asian Cup, that's what I've been doing. KFA: But you must understand that many have questioned your strengths as a manager and... DD: I have strengths. I am a strong leader... KFA: So, your strength is being strong? DD: And stable, yes. Strong and stable, strong and stable - that is what this country needs as we head to the Asian Cup. That old classic always did the trick - 'strong and stable'. Just enough t convince people to stick with you even when there were serious and justifiable doubts. Hopefully, his bluff would work better in the long run than the other fools who had used that line in the past though.
  23. 3 points
    "Alright Adam, we're officially announcing you as our manager tomorrow. It's the same day as our FA Cup 2nd Round trip to Crewe, we're leaving Gillingham at bright and early, make sure you're there. "No problem lads! I'll be there bright and early" - "Adam, it's 8AM, where the **** are you?" "I'm right outside the ground man. I can't see you guys anywhere. I've got to say, I really thought the stadium would be a bit bigger than this you know" "What are you, front entrance, back entrance? We're a medium sized League 1 side Adam, our ground isn't that small for where we are" "I'm at the front entrance. I'm telling you, I can't see you" "Are there any landmarks? What can you see?" "I'm looking straight at the club crest on the main wall. See...Gillingham Town. I'm right here" "Did you say Gillingham Town...?" "Yeah man. I'm right here" "Look at your sat nav Adam. Where does it say you are?" "I'm right here in Dorset" "Dorset?!? Why the **** are you in Dorset?! You idiot! You've got the wrong Gillingham! Jump in a taxi immediately and meet us in Crewe!" -
  24. 3 points
    Absolutely loads of benefits. The first one would be the increased information that the user had. If you consider the graphical limitations of the 3D ME then it becomes even more important that people have this extra information in order to understand what is being shown to them during a match and what it really means. For example, the user could be given a better idea of what each attribute does and, crucially, what it looks like at different skill levels. Even more importantly it would be a way of helping the user understand that the attributes didn’t work in isolation – e.g. imagine two players both with 20/20 Pace/Acc but one with 20 Stamina and one with 5 stamina. Who will get from one end of the pitch to the other the fastest? If the drill is to dribble in and out of cones then dribbling 20 may be the key stat, but if it is combined with Agility 1 then perhaps the result would be surprising. Attribute growth would make more sense both in terms of the impacts of the increased skill and also the means by which the skill was increased. If I set somebody to have individual training, what is actually happening?? With 3D training then you would be able to see your squad separate themselves based on the individual training you had chosen, and depending on your facilities see what actual activities they are doing. For example some players would be doing intensive weight training in the gym, some might be practicing free kicks, some might be shooting against the goalkeepers. If you are managing United for example and you give Rashford individual free kick taking then you should be able to see him improving over time in 3D but also he should be there sometimes getting tips from Rooney, or just working with him in general. Tutoring would obviously follow a similar template, with ‘mentoring off the pitch’ perhaps just involving proximity of the two players during regular training, and ‘improve his game’ showing those two players spending more time together as individuals on drills that were relevant to the PPMs of the tutor, for example. If he has ‘shoots from distance’ then one thing I may see is him and his tutee both shooting from distance, with the tutor at least at first being much better than the tutee. What about player personality and squad blending? What does a squad who’s morale is low LOOK like? Poorer execution and improvement during training? Poor body language? What about a squad who “would be willing to die for each other?” It would be rewarding to be able to see a difference between the two situations. What about individual players who haven’t blended in because they are new signings and/or they don’t speak the language. It could be a clearer representation of the dynamics in the squad if such players would be visibly on the fringes, by walking on their own between drills for example, or by not receiving many high fives during the drills. What about each individual personality of my players? If they are ‘Slack’ or ‘Casual’ then surely there would be visible differences in their overall approaches? Yes, sometimes I would like to see my players messing about and breaking out into a game of crossbar challenge. At the other end of the scale, my ‘Model Professionals’ and the people who “put a lot of effort into staying at peak condition:” I would like to see this for example by arriving early/leaving late, visibly helping other members of the squad, undertaking personal training of their own accord, and maybe visibly telling off the ‘Slack’ and ‘Casual’ squad members who weren’t concentrating. For a more direct link to a match situation, how about the possibility that weather effects, pitch conditions, and also morale effects could be represented in the 3D training in a way that helped the user understand when those factors were having a significant impact on their match. For example if I have noticed during training what it looks like when my GK spills shots or my players lose their footing because of the rain then I will be more aware of when that is happening in a match. Ditto for the condition of the pitch and the ball bobbling away from first touches, or the effects of playing in strong winds. And also for things like a player not being focussed or not giving 100%. Forgetting the extra information that the user could get, there is also the benefit of the user actually learning things about real football. For example developing a good knowledge of actual training drills and schedules used in professional football, and given their visual representation, developing a basic ability to replicate these drills in real life. Similarly I could gain an increased understanding of the skills and abilities needed to function in any particular tactical system. This would be especially true if my overall tactical choices influenced the default training schedule of my team. For example if I want to implement a high pressing strategy then I would immediately see that my default training schedule was much more dominated by physical, endurance based activities, whereas if implementing a tiki-taka style then it would be much more dominated with tactical and technical activities. (modifiable if I want to go in depth.) If some kind of tactical sandbox also existed in training then as well as being something fun to just play around with there would also be a much greater ability for the user to actually understand the language of the 3D ME. For example by being able to organise training matches at will in order to see your tactical choices in action and change them or the players involved on the fly. What about being able to temporarily instruct PPMs during training to test their suitability to the player and the tactic? But it’s not just about the extra information that the user gets and the increased opportunity for the user to learn about real football. The 3D training environment would work along with loads of other parts of the game in a way that was really fun overall. For instance there would obviously be a graphical representation of your clubs facilities. This would include quality and number of training pitches, and the size, quality and variety of other facilities like gyms, canteens and leisure. ‘State of the Art’ facilities would differ greatly from “Below Average Facilities,” and watching your club improve, or getting a new job and enjoying the better facilities would be satisfying. This would also affect the number and type of training activities that are available to you, and the quality of each. Coaching badges could be linked, both through the activities that are available to me (if I run training myself,) and in terms of overlap between the interface and activities/events that are shown. Why not have a virtual coaching course in game, and use a similar or identical presentation as the 3D training? When undertaking a coaching course in the game you would have the option of viewing the relevant 3D ‘tutorials’ with a brief demonstration of, for example, a different training principle or activity, that was then accessible as manager in the 3D training mode. This would also make recruiting and training staff a more interesting job, as they may have access to drills that I can’t perform myself, maybe because they have a higher coaching badge than me or maybe because the drill is a ‘special’ one that can only be attached to certain staff, like ‘curls ball’ for players. Speaking of staff, what about the way that different staff personalities and skills could be represented? What would be the difference between an Assman with 5 Level of Discipline compared to one with 19 Level of Discipline? Being able to see this play out would be fun, for example because my players are visibly messing about more often in sessions run by my low LoD assman. Of course a suitable solution could be to put my low LoD Assman on a category or drill where he would mostly be interacting with highly professional players, who may even be better suited to more autonomy. Filling the training category screen with 5 star coaches is too thin of a goal. Other events in the game could have a new place to be shown. What if you have a player who has turned up late to training. Later that day your Assman may alert you to that fact, but it would be funny if actually you had just noticed by yourself, either because you specifically wanted to check on his free kick progress, or because you watch his car turn up while all the other lads are already training. Could there be visible arguments/fights at times when morale is really poor and the pressure is on? These fights may or may not be leaked to the media. Or randomly you may see that a prospective signing is at the training ground with his agent. Have whatever screen this 3D training is located in be accessible at any time of day but have the 3D appearance be relevant to what time of day it is. For example at 7am there may just be a groundsman mowing the pitches. During the regular day if training is scheduled then that is what is there. Once the evening comes then maybe there are special lights helping to maintain the pitch, and just a few lights on in some windows of the main clubhouse (deadline day would be an exception.) Perhaps there is one of my most ambitious and professional players still out there training? Maybe I’m at a lower level and some kids have climbed over the gate and are playing a game of Wembley. Along with that you could add any number of ‘silly’ ideas that were just there to be nice little surprises. For example there has to be ‘Simlish’ style audio consisting of things like general hubbub, cries of frustration, encouraging grunts, and of course sarcastic cheers. Imagine your joy when, in an extremely rare 3D training event, the ball hits one of your players square in the balls and he goes down into the fetal position. The squad all sarcastically cheer and perform various celebration animations. Morale goes up. Or imagine this: by double clicking on a ball that was near my manager character in the 3D training it would begin a really simple “click to keep the ball up” mini game. My record would be logged as a nice little personal stat. The more kick-ups I do in a row the more of my players start paying attention, if I get to 100 then they all cheer. At the point I finally don’t keep the ball up, one of the squad may step up and start doing kick ups of his own to try and beat my record. Obviously there is the chance that I can fall over, which would also be a trigger for the sarcastic cheer and celebration animations. Morale goes up. Obviously if I choose to do the above too frequently then I would suffer a pretty large hit to my “level of discipline” value. As a counter question, what are the benefits to you of the current training system?
  25. 3 points
    Hi all, We're just pushing out a hotfix for Football Manager Mobile 2017 - version # 8.0.1. This hotfix aims to fix some user-reported issues, and we are working on another to follow within a week or so. Changes are as follows: Fixed some penalty shootout issues Fixed tactics crash issues resuming from background Protected against save game corruption and interruption of saving Fixed news item continue crash Fixed scouting continue crash Fixed retirement related continue crash Fixed cup draw venue in news Fixed iPad 1 crash
  26. 2 points
    In the Tactics Forum we quite often see new or inexperienced managers (or even more experienced managers, guilty!) of over elaborating or over using Team Instructions after the team Mentality has been applied. When this is pointed out, more often than not the player concerned simply hasn't realised that selecting Mentality also changes default settings for the Team Instructions. I'd suggest a reason for this is that there is no context given in the TI screen. I'll give examples below to show what I mean, but for the sake of brevity I'll only refer to "Closing Down", although this can equally apply to Tempo, Width, Defensive Line and Passing Directness. When presented with the Tactics screen, the new manager (lets call him Dave) will click the Team Instructions box, possibly already having selected Mentality and Team Shape. Perhaps Dave fancies Attacking football and this is what he sees for Closing Down having already selected the Attacking mentality: But there is no context for Dave to compare this to. He just sees "Sometimes" and thinks he needs to add more on without realising the chosen mentality has already increased his Closing Down. Here is what Closing Down looks like in comparison to the Defensive mentality (Defensive at the top): Now with some context the green bar makes much more sense, and provides the visual indication Dave needs. For me, the problem is two fold: 1) The word "Sometimes" is misleading. Closing Down is very far from just "Sometimes" when using the Attacking mentality for example. Solution: change the word to "Normal" ie., it becomes "normal" in relation to the chosen mentality (tooltip needed to make that clear). 2) Provide a simple median line across the green bar to show where the set Closing Down for the chosen mentality is in relation to where an average amount of Closing Down is (which is actually where the Standard mentality sets it). For example (and excuse my rudimentary Paint skills) this is how the same Closing Down for the Attack mentality shown above could look: And this is for the same Defensive mentality Closing Down image: The yellow "Avg" line is a simple fixed point to show some on screen context, without needing to flick between Mentalities to see how things change. Now, regardless of the word used, we can visually see how much Mentality changes the default amount of Closing Down. So it's now more obvious that the Attacking mentality sets an above average amount of Closing Down, whereas the Defensive mentality is below average. (Obviously I'm just using Attacking and Defensive as examples, the same would apply to all mentalities).
  27. 2 points
    Steven Gerrard thinks they are going to be important for him this season in our U18 team, that is enough for me to want one too it would make sense in the fm world, that if you need one for match analysis then your reserve team managers would need one to. just because you aren't reading it, doesnt mean that they arent right?
  28. 2 points
    Buy 5 new strikers every year that are never going to play... instead of defenders that i actually need.
  29. 2 points
    I started a thread a couple of months ago ranting about the same thing. Worth a repost. Why does it seem like you can only be successful if you magically stumble across the tactic and player instructions that SI have decided is the best for the given year? There is no room for creativity, the match engine restricts you to work out the code necessary to beat it. It has become far too mechanical. It is not realistic at all. It is not enjoyable at all. Creativity is plentiful in real football. There is a diversity of tactics, game plans, player instructions and player abilities from game to game, year to year. Many different ways to approach a game of football, and managers have shown you can be successful with a myriad of different approaches. Yet, football manager incessantly punishes the player for attempting to be creative with his team rather than sticking to the very narrow parameters set by SI and the match engine. Another gripe…how many times have you been ahead at half time (across many saves, with many different teams, of various abilities and mental characteristics) and come out the second half for the other team to steamroll you in a complete reverse of momentum. Why? You said ‘Pleased’ at half time and one guy reacted by showing disinterest, the others didn’t react at all. Meanwhile, the other manager must have said he was ‘Disappointed’ and really got his players fired up, really inspiring team talk from the away dressing room and it has resulted in his team overturning a 2 goal deficit and winning 4-2. Team talks are far too influential, especially considering you have about 5 options (of which two are only suitable at any given time). The game has become boring and repetitive. Devoid of any room for creativity or fun. I don’t mean it is too hard either, it is just soulless, it is too mechanical. Perhaps SI should release notes on the impact each variable (each team or player instruction, teamtalk style etc) has on the games algorithms. I know there are plenty of tactics help and guides, although are they not just blind fanboy conjecture? I’m sceptical about them, I want concrete information provided by SI. The game does absolutely nothing to capture the essence of real football. The game is either a highly complex mathematical puzzle, or perhaps it Is masquerading as a highly complex mathematical puzzle with little real substance (too many options which do nothing to influence the algorithms). Which is it? Either way it is certainly not as enjoyable as when I started in 01/02, and got less enjoyable as the years progressed.
  30. 2 points
    Coming very soon, final version for 2017.
  31. 2 points
    and also worth noting that they used to be a lot more active, but decided to withdraw because of comments like that. Totally correct too - why should they have to listen to people who have no idea what they're talking about throw out wide conjecture like it's fact?
  32. 2 points
    ...and then the Uruguayan says, "Grapefrukt her? I hardly knew her!"
  33. 2 points
    Aguero had better watch out!
  34. 2 points
    That's a great, highly-informed response by Mons. I will confess that I go into the pre-editor and doctor the attributes myself, not because I think SI have done wrong, but because I like to create my own narrative. I create my own fictitious lowest-league club and scour the database for 15-16 year-old kids to populate the squad with. My intention is to create a long-term project to develop the kids over their careers. Thus, without changing the CAs, I do fiddle with 0 attributes that are pertinent to development such as professionalism and injury-proneness. The game compensates for my increases in those attributes by ensuring other attributes such as physical and technical ones (and usually decisions) are far lower than their peers in the competing league. That seems fair to me and we invariably struggle in the first season until their attribute increases start to have an impact. Because I tamper with the editor to create the fictitious game-world that suits me personally, I would never come on here and complain that SI have got it wrong. My attitude is that it is our game, we paid for it, we play it against the AI and we're free to play it how we like. SI very helpfully supply an editor to give us the flexibility to change it as we like. However, that is not acceptable is that we should come on here and complain that SI don't make the game that we individually want it to be. Just use the editor, do your own thing, and leave the rest of us and SI in peace.
  35. 2 points
    It's not a red herring. They get involved in the defensive side sometimes, that's true, but unless there's a set-piece or a throw in, they almost never get behind the ball. And yes, in a lot of RL teams, strikers defend behind the ball. Even a DF(D) or a DF(S) on contain-very fluid doesn't. And if there's a magical solution to make them do that in FM17: please share it. I've been trying to make them do that for months. (And have had to settle for a 4-4-2-0. Not perfect.)
  36. 2 points
    Beating the engine, defensive AI and a few general curiosities This was touched upon before, but FM 2017 due to that overhaul has also introduced a really strange match dynamic as per defensive AI. Defensive AI = oft both wide backs on defend duty. It's the kind of thing that entirelly stats/ratings focused players would previously rage about. Like in long-term saves where your side got the BIG TEAM TO BEAT in the game world and every AI went defensive, which was prone to trigger the reaction: If I concede at all, it only happens from either a set-piece, long shot, bug or fluke, bad ME/cheating AI. Being primarily stats focused meant nobody would pick up this might be because half the opposition teams just started sitting behind the ball outside of precisely those set pieces, and most of the attacks thus being easily defended. For better and worse, on FM 2017 this can be different on the occasion. If defensive AI goes this defensive on here, AI v s AI matches as well as your own, it channels a bulk of the play through the middle where this season's weaker areas are. And naturally, 4-4-2s are the most vulnerable, as they don't defend as they once used to. Evidence A: Ball just transitioning into the final third, the two chains actually keeping it reasonably compact for the defending team, the attacking teams backs stay back, so play tends to go through the middle naturally a wee bit with limited wide outfield balls in the final third too (this is all AI). Evidence B: The right-hand players breaking it apart, opening big big big channels Evidence C: Guy into the channel being passed to. Rather than any midfielder having closed those (like those guys sitting miles wide), it is the centre back who is forced to step in. Evidence D: Guy plays a neato through ball, goal. Naturally that defending itself is nothing "new" as for this thread, so please don't flame me. I still have a suspicious this would have likely ended in a few more of those fluke shots on prior iterations, overall having a far lesser chance of resulting into a goal (as a logical result of AI being focused on keeping it tight, not as a sign of an inherently broken ME). Naturally, this defending of central areas is where this season's big exploit tactics lie. Probably he most effective ones in years. Weakest area on the pitch virtually or otherwise because: a) shortest distance to the virtual goal and b) once successfully overrun, no more d-line. If you look around, you'll quickly find a few reviews about how you just could plug stuff in, and roll over. Naturally, some enjoy this, others point it out as a sign of a broken ME also in various reviews, such is life/preference. Personally I just came in 2nd in the BL with Freiburg not doing anything but hitting continue, had the matches on "commentary", not made a sub ever. Technically, this is still "playing" I guess. How do the good guys do this? Keep it central, stupid. In particular with the wide mids, it is impossible to mark everybody in those narrow strikerless narrow wing back tactics. Only a few AI formations could (and do) somewhat plug those holes to counter. Namely: A third back getting involved that provides a spare man to cover any of the many times one of his colleagues is forced to step in and close down. This plus a few additionally central mids/DMs that somewhat balance this out. The reason I bring this up is, it would perhaps be of use if SI contacted some of the better engine exploit tacticians, in particular those who don't merely trial&error&copy/paste. Not primarily to stop people "beating the ME", though that may be a concern for SI too (those tactics only ever work short-term, undermine the multiplayer, plus prevent people from learning how to play). But because any such can highlight issues that may be otherwise flagged "minor" in the testing or may not get picked up at all, undermining a few of the hard work and progress made.
  37. 2 points
    One feature I have always thought would be great is if some players could be coaxed out of retirement. For example, I'm fairly sure Dennis Wise and Gus Poyet both registered as players for Leeds in League One (although neither played), Edgar Davids came out of retirement to become player/manager of Barnet, Ronaldo teased coming out of retirement to play for Fort Lauderdale, SAF convinced Paul Scholes to come out of retirement to rescue Man Utd, Landon Donovan for LA Galaxy, and of course there was a whole wave of players coming out of retirement to play in the Indian Super League. Even in a very primitive format, whereby the game retained a record saying - for example - that David James was a goalkeeper, I would be quite happy to see random stats attributed on his return. Slightly better would be to keep a more detailed record, such as that David James was an eccentric, commanding goalkeeper. I think this would be an interesting addition to the game, especially managing in the lower leagues. If you are struggling with a small squad and limited budget, being able to ask members of your staff to register as players would be a great help. An alternative benefit would be a small financial boost for a small team getting a big name to appear for them (albeit without the ability they had in their prime). This ability is there to a small extent in the fact that players become player/non-players towards the end of their careers, but I believe there to be a couple of issues with this: if you ever hire one of these guys in staff role, they immediately retire as a player the player/non-players tend to want small wages for a non-player role, but often 5/6/7 times as much for a player/coach role for example. What do you think?
  38. 2 points
    Tactics update Hello and welcome to another of my tactical updates. The last time out I was still in Holland managing Twente in which I presented to you guys a pack of 5 different tactics I was playing at the time: 3-Headed Beast (narrow flat 4-3-3) Old Bus (3-3-2-2) Uruguayan Tiki-Taka (4-3-1-2) Werther's Originals (3-4-2-1) Dutch Diamond (4-1-2-1-2) Now managing HSV, these 5 tactics are still the basis I'm using most of the time, although I've done some slight changes here and there. However, a new problem has been brewing. The 4-4-2 and a couple variants like the 4-4-1-1 are popular, and we're struggling against many teams playing these tactics. If in the previous teams I've managed, the Originals would do just fine against 4-4-2s most of the time, for whatever reason that's not really working here. There's plenty of extremely talented wingers and strikers we come up against. With a little help from the fullback, it's 2 vs 1 on the wing vs my wingback (sometimes 1 vs 1 is enough!), and then they put in the cross for the 2 strikers. Typically 3 CBs vs 2 strikers would be enough too, but my CBs are merely okay and many strikers we face are incredible, so they get beaten all the time... Moreover I think highly fluid systens are in fashion here in Germany. When 4-4-2s are more open - read: structured - we do okay, but when the lines are this close, our system(s) crumble(s) apart. Most of our systems are designed on overloading the golden zone (our AM zone/the opponent's DM zone), and whilst this is a weakness of any 4-4-2 (with no DM), the more the lines are closer together, the more this problem is minimized and their defenders can deal with it. Hence, I present to you my latest monstruosity designed to overcome this situation, which will now be elevated to the status of official tactic: Shy 3-Headed Beast narrow 4-1-2-2(AMLC)-1(STRC) Use against: 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1. I've briefly mentioned a "Shy 3-Headed Beast" before, the idea previously was simply to take the 3-Headed Beast - a narrow flat 4-3-3 system - and move all 3 strikers to AMCs, effectively becoming a strikerless system. I've toyed with variants of that very briefly in the Twente days, and again during the course of last season. However it never quite clicked. Having noticed the strikerless revolution brewing all across this forum, I got a few more ideas and tweaks, and ended up more recently with something very, very similar to @BoxToBox's Man Utd system after moving the central MC to the DM slot. But the real breakthrough was when I decided... what if I don't want to be completely strikerless after all. Having 3 AMCs was nice, but it really worked better against open opponents rather than these compact 4-4-2s. It still relied on the opposition gifting us some control of the Golden Zone. What if... I added yet another problem to them and retained a player very, very high up to confuse their defence? Introduce a poacher. Now they have FOUR lines of central players to deal with (ST-AM-MC-DM), and all the fluidity in this world can't save a 4-4-2 against this. Do their CBs and CMs follow the striker, the shadow striker, the more static enganche, or the CM/A rushing from deep? - and by the way there's still the CM/S and the DM free. And let's throw in an extra IWB just for fun. No 4-4-2 can deal with all that. Boom. Goals be happening. It's not strikerless, but hey, it kinda is in spirit with many strikerless concepts in it. Except it has the most striker-like role of all, the freaking poacher. I'm confused. But it works (so far). It's fun. Exciting times in Hamburg.
  39. 2 points
  40. 2 points
    End of Page 1. I know he has been classed as a Generational talent, but RR doesn't actually look amazing off the bat. Don't get me wrong, he's great, but he doesn't look instantly amazing without the generational label. I love that you got a Lens product through in the 1st intake. Not so keen at all on you signing young Russians though. You are going to have more players than you know what to do with at this rate. You are going to get 16 youngsters in every season + whatever you buy. Just keeping the numbers down is going to be a full-time job. I haven't seen mention of any Tutors being signed as yet? @Benjoe wants ridiculousness, (and he's right). We, (ok then, I), demand that your GK takes free-kicks and pens! Bo-Jack is a great nickname by the way. It took me a minute to realise who you were talking about. At the end of Season 1 you have a good few Pro's, but not a single Model Pro I see. Need to get on that. On that note, would you mind using your extensive scouting network to see if you can find a Model Citizen at any point anywhere during the save please?
  41. 2 points
    Obviously we all have our own opinions, but I completely disagree with this, I think it's one of the best they have done, and I don't think I ever experience the problems that other people tend to moan about. I have put more hours into fm17 than I have the last 3 or 4 and thoroughly enjoy it.
  42. 2 points
    The style of play and the system - Practicing pragmatism. Pragmatism is oft overlooked particularly on these forums, for the most part we want goals, excitement, flair, Jogo Bonito and Total Football which are all fantastic but outside of the elite clubs in world football it's difficult to implement such a style overnight without meticulous planning and transfer dealings. Perhaps eventually in this thread I'll write about overhauling a squad but for the meantime one of my intentions is about making the most of what you've got in your ranks. In other words - pragmatism. Like in Herne's most recent thread (a common theme for this thread will be the painstaking lack of originality, apologies) this is a pretty good place to start, although I'm already familiar with the squad it doesn't hurt to take another look. The stand out positives are the teamwork, determination, aggression and bravery attributes which will form the basis of my squad DNA but you've most likely read about that before so I'll skip over that for now. These collective attributes lend themselves very well to an aggressive system with intense pressing and a high line but... ...the attributes on the right reveal the acceleration and pace attributes for our defence and well is about the best I can muster up. However that's nothing that I didn't know already, in a perfect world I'd elect to play a 442 or a 4411 system and replicate a similar system to what we've played under Shakespeare this season to half decent effect despite a disappointing end to the season. However I really dislike the wide player defensive positioning which is exacerbated by only having two players in the middle and strikers that are reluctant to track back mean that I'll be swerving it; that's not to say that it can't work and you shouldn't let my words deter you but I just don't fancy it on this years iteration. A pragmatic style of management means that you absolutely have to get the best out of your players, specifically your key players. So with that it's worth looking at my best players and trying to create a system around them. First a look at Jamie Vardy, quite a well rounded striker who should be quite versatile however the player trait of Likes To Try To Beat Offside Trap is a nightmare because it leads to a ridiculous amount of offsides and means the player is is always pushing up high regardless of role so for that reason Vardy has to play as an attack duty forward, which suits him best anyway. So if we're playing an attack duty forward that means we need a support striker too otherwise Vardy would be too isolated. So the picture of the system is a little bit clearer as now we've two strikers up top, a preference to avoid 442 means that retaining three central players requires either a system with three at the back or a 4132/4312. The only natural rightback in the team is Danny Simpson and you don't have to look at his attributes to know that he's the sort of player that malfunctions when he passes the halfway line so that rules out a four at the back system. Only leaving a three which does suit the defenders at the club as they're physical brutes who lack mobility so having a spare man prevents having so much available space in the channels where my DCs could be isolated. However this does pose a problem as our best technical player Riyad Mahrez is a wide player and obviously doesn't easily fit in a system without wingers. In order to fit him in he'll be slotted in at AMC as an attacking midfielder where he's only competent but the only disadvantage to this is a very slight hit to the decisions attribute, this is already quite low so it is something to look out for when I actually start playing games. My next key player that I want to get the best out of is Danny Drinkwater, he's got very well rounded attributes and could play most midfield roles but as he's got plenty of options ahead of him in theory I want him to take the mantle and creative responsibility away from my neanderthal defenders and assign him the responsibility of being a playmaker more specifically a Deep Lying Playmaker. If there's mixed ability amongst the players in a squad it makes sense to have the ball at the feet of your better players and assigning a playmaker is a sure fire way fire way for them to attract the ball - fortunately Danny has the right attributes too which compensates for my defence's lack of ball skills. Now I've got who I consider my key players playing in roles that at least somewhat suit them it's time to build a system that balances out the attacking tendencies of these players by making sure the players nearby them cover for them. (sorry about the image size, click on it to enlarge it) Once again these role and duty choices are driven by the players and their attributes, Wingback Left - support: Christian Fuchs will play here, he's got brilliant technical ability and great defensive stats too, he's only a support duty though as he lacks a little bit of mobility and can't bomb both up and down otherwise he would have been an attack duty. Wingback Right - attack: Marc Albrighton will play in this position, he's got mediocre defensive stats but a great workrate and is quite mobile so he should be able to get back in position and be a body in the way rather than a great defensive presence. Even if he doesn't;t get back well enough the three centrebacks and BWM should be able to cover. Ball Winning Midfielder - defend: I've chosen the more aggressive BWM over a CM D here because with three central defenders behind him and a fairly conservative midfield partner I feell it suits Wilfred N'Didi to be more proactive in winning the ball back. Deep Lying Forward - support: As previously mentioned Vardy pushes forward a lot so it's important that he has a partner that offers a deep option and provides reverse movements to Vardy which helps cause problems in the opposition defence that hopefully Riyad can take advantage of as a third man. Slimani is most likely to play this role and if I find that he's attempting too many risky passes as part of the hardcoded TI then I'll change the role to a defensive forward but it's something to look out for when watching games. From the looks of it the roles and duties are seemingly well balanced although maybe a tad conservative which will be yet another potential problem I'll have to keep a keen eye on when playing matches as well as the normal structural issues posed by a 3412 or whatever you want to call it, notably: 1) The space in between the midfielders and the defenders 2) The lack of wide coverage, the premier league usually throws up opposition that push their fullbacks forward and I may be exposed to overloads in wide areas which is yet another thing I'll need to watch out for. However at the moment it's all conjecture and it could be an absolutely amazing system perfectly suited to the players which blows the league away leading to Leicester being crowned surprise champions. It'd never happen in real life though .
  43. 2 points
    Because you have Vidal as CM(D) i recommend setting Alaba to CWB (A) But please can you explain what you arent getting? you win ALOT of games so i dont think there is anything wrong other than micro managing the bigger games.
  44. 2 points
    Overlapping fullbacks are not a meta, never have been. They will seem strong in your system above simply because you have them both on attack, without any wing or midfield support, so what do their set PIs tell them to do? Get forward, stay wide, and ping crosses into the box. And in the box you have 3 strikers to aim at who could well have the numbers advantage over the opposition defence. Who else do the fullbacks have available to pass the ball to? There's nobody else near them in support so all they can do is cross the ball. In the mean time, what are your two playmakers in central midfield doing? Your DLP is staying deep and spraying passes around (probably to an overlapping fullback a lot of the time). And your AP is looking to make through balls, but if he isn't able to do that who does he pass it to? His DLP partner or the running fullback. Fullbacks make crosses if 1) you tell them to (which you have done) and 2) they don't have an option for a pass (which they don't). If you want creative midfielders to be the focus of assists instead, you need to give them the right passing options, position them in the correct areas of the pitch, give them effective support and switch fullbacks to a more supporting role. A 4-1-2-3 with those tactical selections doesn't really fill any of those criteria. btw, the Look for Overlap TI only impacts "wingers" (generic term, not the role) who'll look to hold the ball up and wait for an overlapping fullback. So if you don't play with wingers the TI doesn't do anything (except to make your attacking fullbacks slightly more attacking, thanks @Fosse). Also, making the team narrow won't focus passing through the middle - if anything it could have the opposite effect as you are creating space out wide which your attacking fullbacks will use. I've just read this back to myself, and I apologise if this all sounds a bit harsh. That isn't my intention. What I'm really trying to say is that unintentionally you've set your team up so that your attacking fullbacks are the focus, thus they are bound to get the assists. You need some radical changes if you want to stop that.
  45. 2 points
  46. 2 points
    Champions League Final 2023/24 Man Utd have serious injury problems, but their squad is surely deep enough to replace unavailable players. Starting lineups: Rostov: Aoki – Smith, Duarte, Larsson – Schennikov, Sergeev, Ricardo – Grujic, Ogasawara – Mangena, Kabiru Man Utd: Davidson – Grimaldo, Rugani, de Vrij, Florenzi – Sanches, Tielemans – Mbappe, Barone, Batur – Martial Everything's ready for the final, teams entering the... what the hell? That was unexpected. Well, I’ve encountered all types of pitches while playing FM, but really? Almost square pitch at San Siro, in Champions League final? Oh, and making things weirder, Giuseppe Meazza pitch is standard 105x68 meters. Hard work for groundsmen I guess, changing all the marks between Milan and Inter matches 9’ Tielemans tries his luck from distance, well over the bar. 15’ Kabiru takes a free kick, off target as well. 17’ Another long shot (maybe not so long on that weird pitch), form Barone that time and wide again. 22’ Free kick from a corner of the penalty area. Tight angle, but Grujic curls the ball towards near post, and it goes in! 1-0, great start! 27’ Tielemans gets a yellow card for a foul on Kabiru. 29’ Another free kick from Grujic, far from goal. 30’ Grujic gets yellow, Mbappe tries to score from a free kick, but the ball goes slightly over. 33’ Probably first shot from inside the box, Martial dribbles past Smith, but Duarte blocks his effort. 43’ Ricardo runs past Grimaldo on the right wing, crosses to the box, Kabiru reaches it before two defenders on a volley, and it’s 2-0! 45’ Cross from left wing, Florenzi clears the ball, but it falls to Grujic outside the box. He shoots, and Davidson manages to save! 12 (5) – 7 (1) on shots, incredible first half for us. But it’s still only a halfway, and last time against Red Devils we also were 2-0 ahead after first half… 47’ Corner from Batur, but Ogasawara confidently clears. 51’ Yellow cards to Renato Sanches and Sergeev just inside a minute. Tielemans tries a long free kick, ball files somewhere to the stands. 53’ Long shot (yeah again) from Grujic, goes on target but no problem for Davidson. 56’ First substitution in this match, Martial out, Lautaro Martinez in. 58’ Pass from Mangena, United defenders lose Kabiru, he shoots, and Davidson parries it to the corner! 60’ Martinez tries to cross from right wing, Sergeev closes down and launches a counter, Kabiru is alone against three defenders but still manages to shoot. Davidson saves though. 64’ Grimaldo crosses high from left wing, Larsson intercepts, but Sanches is first on the rebound and shoots… 2-1, no chances for Aoki. 65’ Mancunians go for their second immediately, Mbappe tries to shoot from tight angle, Aoki redirects for a corner. 66’ Maksimovic in, Grujic out. Refreshing the midfield by removing a booked and tired player. 69’ Two dangerous attacks in a row. First Martinez shoots over the bar from a promising position, and then Mbappe outruns Larsson, but his shot goes right to our keeper. 75’ Yellow card for Duarte. 77’ Oien in, Ogasawara out. Another substitution to hold the ball in midfield. 78’ Free kick by Mbappe, far away from goal. 81’ Fosu-Mensah and Brandt for de Vrij and Mbappe, last changes from Prandelli today. 85’ Martinez wins a ball from Larsson and desperately shoots from 30 meters. Over. 90’ Oien dribbles inside the box and crosses low for Mangena, but Rugani saves in the last second. 90+1’ Savchenko for Schennikov. Wasting time… 90+3’ Batur crosses from right wing, Duarte clears it to a corner. Another chance for Batur, cross to the far post, and Aoki claims the ball. Long kick from our goalie toward Mangena, Rugani wins a header, tries to launch another attack… intercepted by Oien! 3 added minutes are over, United are all out attack, a deep cross, Larsson clears, they repeat, and Larsson again gets the ball. Mighty kick to the opponents’ half, Mangena is here! Holding the ball… and there’s the final whistle!!! We are the best club of Europe! Скачать видео Still hard to believe. Thousands of hours played for the latest years, but the last time I’ve won the Champions League (in a proper career, not including some experimental saves) was in FM10 with a Dutch side Volendam (still remember a newgen striker named Michel Achterberg and a club legend Jack Tuyp, who scored in that final being almost 40 at that time). Kabiru finished the tournament with 11 goals, same as Icardi who got the Golden Boot with less matches played. Dream Team was dominated by Man Utd players (though 4 of them couldn’t play in the final), we were represented only by Mangena.
  47. 2 points
    The main improvement is more tactical variations from AI managers. Additional benefits are a better balance on player happiness/interactions, club & player rep have a reduced importance factor in calculating results, lower CA late bloomers & unheralding players are more likely to come through as attribute balance is favoured over CA score, managers will also rotate more intelligently & when competing in continental competitions you level the match fatigue/recovery system. I've also found that if you have a large game world the transfer market demonstrates better logic due to the way match form & league weightings impact how AI managers shortlist transfer targets & contract renewals. Short version, if you have a high end CPU & patience the ideal minimum settings are to run all top divisions & continental comps in full detail, personally I load all leagues & run them all in full detail but I have no wife or kids so appreciate that's not the best option for most FM'ers.
  48. 2 points
    Changes to 01/06/2017 - USA: NASL and USL activated (2017 formats: 8 teams in NASL and 30 teams in USL) - Australia: NPL activated (8 states leagues with real play-off and relegations!) - Others leagues activated: Finland 3rd div., Iceland 3rd & 4th div., Russia 3rd div., Ukraine 3rd div. - Fix minors bugs to Canada and Gibraltar
  49. 2 points
  50. 2 points
    Since we're talking practically here, I've got something going in my current save which might be helpful. I'm using a 4-3-3 and I'll explain my logic. sk(d) fb(a) cb cb fb(au) dlp (d) cm(a) cm(au) if(s) dlf(s) if(a) Logic: When thinking of pressing up, the first thing to spring to mind is compactness. we want their near passing options covered all throughout the pitch, outnumbering them in midfield especially. this means the space between your lines should be minimized. the best way to do this is a fluid setting (not very fluid as too much freedom), a narrower formation (slightly narrower or narrower are both fine, just for the transition period), and push higher up (not much higher because of balance). For me these 3 are essential. Next, you want to close down situationally, making sure (1) oppo can't pass out and (2) even if they do, you've got it covered. That means different pressing levels for different positions (.ie. close down more ti shouldn't be used, rather, individual closing down instructions). Remember, the pressing is more intense higher up the pitch, so dlf and if(a) both have close down much more. Then comes the next layer. Close down more for if (s) and cm(au). The reason for this is that if everyone closes down & marks appropriately, it (ideally) forces the ball to the right side of the field, specifically the right cm (a). With this in mind, the cm (a) has close down much more, as he's there to trap the "last man" who has all his options blocked. At this point, either possession is regained, ball is hoofed, or the press is played out of. 3rd choice is where dlp (d) comes in. He is instructed to close down less, because if the press is played out of, he is the last man left to slow down the opposition on the ball, allowing the midfield to regain their defensive positioning. Thus, it is vital that he is not drawn out of position into rash challenges. The fullbacks both have close down more and mark tighter. I usually put tackle harder as well, because at this point the ball is probably with the oppo winger, who should not be allowed to beat the last man on the wing with so many midfielders high up. Thus fouls are acceptable on the wings. If the fullback has a yellow, removing tackle harder and calming them down usually prevents avoidable red cards. The last ti i use for the press is use tighter marking. I believe that fm doesn't really execute cutting out passing lanes well, but this ti when pressing produces the desired effect. Finally, using general oi's I always close down wide men (fb, wb, winger) as well as am (c) and st (c). For everyone else, closing down is situational depending on the press. A lone st is usually tightly marked by a stopper, with a fast covering cb sweeping up behind him. This in theory nullifies both long balls to targetmen and through balls past the high line to poachers. And that about covers it. if i forgot anything, I'll edit it in, and if anyone can suggest changes to make this even more effective, i'll gladly incorporate them. hope this was useful