Football Manager TV: Scouting

[tmpusr]

6 minutes ago, apvmoreira said:

No, only your knowledge of the player, the starts rating

Not sure I understand what you mean. The knowledge of the player is the box #1 in attached image. Box #2 shows how good the player is compared to the rest of my squad (in his position). The question I ask is whether box #3 is the scout's estimation of the player's CA (or PA), or something else.

[Swindon69]

I do rather like the idea of being able to say what type of player your after without having to fiddle about.

[PonjaConRulos]

In Spanish, Carrilero is Wingback. Literally, the Wingback role is called Carrilero: Carrilero (Wingback), Carrilero Completo (Complete Wingback) and Carrilero Inverso (Inverted Wingback). So I don't understand at all what this new role means. 

I would never call Di María a carrilero o something like that. For me, Kyle Walker is a carrilero.

[karlcole]

So does this mean when I go on player search only players my scouts have knowledge of will show as opposed to on fm17 where I can see any player in the world and filter from there?

[A.Pierfrancesco]

The new report information about the opposition formation is absolute fantastic. Massive step forward in this section.

[MoxeysTheName]

I just hope that these new player roles actually have effect on the way certain players play within particular systems and that somebody at SI hasn't just swallowed a dictionary

[kandersson]

New shortlist screen looks very promising, and also close to a request I made in the past 

[XaW]

7 hours ago, karlcole said:

So does this mean when I go on player search only players my scouts have knowledge of will show as opposed to on fm17 where I can see any player in the world and filter from there?

You don't see all the players in the world there in FM17. Just the ones you have knowledge of, it's much the same as before. However, now you can change it and adjust the budget to your needs instead of it being out of your control.

[Jean0987654321]

15 hours ago, XaW said:

Yeah, my googling aren't very helpful, but so far I have found:

Segundo Volante - Box-to-box midfielder but more technical?
Mezzala - Attacking playmaker that runs with the ball?
Carrilero - Central midfielders who covers for full backs?

 

 

Feel free to enlighten me if Google have led me astray.

Sounds like the role of Gabi Fernandez Arenas at AM. He roams wide in possession in order to whip in a cross in as both wingers tuck in while in possession

[streety]

10 hours ago, rdbayly said:

I scouted the video and have produced a report for anyone that's not seen it yet:

"Some doubts, may be worth tracking"

hmm intresting what scout did you use whats his stats? and did you use a scouting package?

[lukefitch]

Another cool feature! After a couple of underwhelming years it seems like the FM team have really upped their game and are focussing on the right things again.

[RTHerringbone]

Looks promising. Scouting was always just a bit of a mindless clickfest for me, these seems more meaty. I like this and the look of Dynamics, but as a FMT user I'm not sure how much of either I'll get to experience.

New Roles are largely over my head in terms of their names, but will be interested to see how they play. I assume Inverted Winger just gets round the need for a modified WM to create an IF at ML/R.

What I'd love to see soon are updates to training modules, injury management and details about any new PI/TI/PPMs. Even without that, these new additions are strong so far.

[Atarin]

One thing I am interested to know is whether clubs that can't afford data analysts will still be able to access to Analysis screen.

Also in real life your next opponent scout report will include things like patterns of play, especially things like whether the opposition play out from the back, which flank they like to build up on.etc

Also a big part of any opposition scouting report will be a set-piece analysis. This would be really helpful because a lot of coaches have very settled tactical plans and don't make huge adjustments depending on opponent (especially the top clubs, confident in their own ability) but what they do spend a lot of time on is preparing for the "great equalisers" like set pieces. If you're playing the likes of West Brom then its vital that you set up to stop them scoring from free kicks and corners because if you do then that's 90% of their goal threat gone.

[Smurf]

All the videos are great - but could really use subtitles. 

Not all of us have the power of sound.

[ilkork]

I have another question: Did you fix the bug where I set my scout to scout a region with the conditions for example "Based In: NOT in Colombia" or "Nationality: NOT Colombian", but he still scouts Colombia and/or finds Colombian players???
No, I don't want to check my inbox every time till the "Skip Nation" appears, because that's the reason I've set that condition...
 

Edited October 11, 2017 by ilkork

[deltablue]

Hands off our Bart!

As someone who has always had a heavy focus on the scouting/transfer side of things I'm looking forward to getting to try out the extra options and features. I can certainly relate to the concept of needing a short-term scouting mission to find a suitable signing in a particular position.

[Bunkerossian]

Will sending a scout into a particular country still be possible in the way I can do it in FM17?

Also- those new roles are a linguistical trap. If it's still possible, I propose renaming  ˝Carillero˝ to ˝Shuttler˝, for the English version.

[Spedding]

57 minutes ago, Smurf said:

All the videos are great - but could really use subtitles. 

Not all of us have the power of sound.

They have subtitles if using youtube app 3 dots and captions choose your language and if usibg browser where you lower volume theres a cc button for subtitles

[gunner86]

Again, I'm quite impressed.

Not the overhaul for scouting that I expected, but a massive step forward nonetheless.

[theballstopshere]

To me this is a better feature than dynamics. More true-to-life, which is what we all want from a football management game. 

Having the scouting more closely mirror real world scouting will give the game a massive leg-up in terms of realism. 

Now, onto tactics.

[Blitz-Matt]

I'm liking all this SI

gg

[grasu]

This feature looks great. I really like the fact that you can give your scouts a short term assignment to search for a specific player/role from those that are available to you. This was ALWAYS an issue for me as I got later in the game and good players start being rarer and rarer and harder and harder to find. I also like the packages, the ability to scout outside your region and, another frequently asked for feature, the scout's rating. All of these seem to be fantastic improvements to the game,

[upthetoon]

feature looks great. about time the scouting had a complete revamp! pretty excited now.

but all the new features need to tie in together nicely. there's real potential for FM18 to be a game changer in the series.. I really hope they don't screw it up. 

the most important aside from all this, is improvement in the match engine and AI. if they have done this 2, then, I guarantee that FM18 sales will be off the charts.

 

[apvmoreira]

14 hours ago, tmpusr said:

Not sure I understand what you mean. The knowledge of the player is the box #1 in attached image. Box #2 shows how good the player is compared to the rest of my squad (in his position). The question I ask is whether box #3 is the scout's estimation of the player's CA (or PA), or something else.

Maybe its scouting level form the pack you bought, like only 60% of the work is done and you maybe want to wait for it to get 100 % of knowledge to be sure its the best that the scouts have found in that package/league

[Super Bladesman]

19 minutes ago, apvmoreira said:

Maybe its scouting level form the pack you bought, like only 60% of the work is done and you maybe want to wait for it to get 100 % of knowledge to be sure its the best that the scouts have found in that package/league

No, it's the scout's opinion of the player's current ability. It says in the video. The score will change and refine as the scout's knowledge level of the player improves.

[zehessc]

3 minutes ago, Super Bladesman said:

No, it's the scout's opinion of the player's current ability. It says in the video. The score will change and refine as the scout's knowledge level of the player improves.

Question is, how does this relate to the current ability star rating of the scout? This kinda already gives you his CA opinion which also changes according to the knowledge. I'm wondering if this new rating not only relates to your own team but your league/nation even maybe.

[hluraven]

This looks excellent, but only if the visible attributes are not always 100% accurate like before.

If all it takes it to scout the player and see their accurate ratings, an estimate of CA etc and a scout saying he is weak at jumping is irrelevant as you already know.

But, if the scouting is fallible, and better scouts/data analysts give you a more accurate set of estimated ratings, then that is what would be much more realistic and what I've been after for ages. 

 

Also, scouts finding out about players who aren't playing needs to be changed, estimates of a player's ability when he is on holiday etc need to be much more vague/wrong than players the scout can actually physically watch. In the longer term, I would also like to see the estimated ratings based on the performance in the match watched, so if a player completes a lot of dribbles, the scout estimates dribbling higher etc. Much like real life scouting, you judge based on what you see primarily.

[stevemc]

This feature looks like a great addition; hopefully this transpires well in the lowers league and also improves the AI ability to build successful squads over time to enhance career games and add longevity.

Edited October 11, 2017 by stevemc

[RiverReveal666]

Is there the option yet to mask all player attributes forever? That one option would for me bring the game to life, leaving me to make my own judgements on stats and what I see in the ME, while at the same time making scout reports far more valuable. If I want a fast player its just to easy to pick player A because he has 18 pace rather than player b who has 16.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, RiverReveal666 said:

Is there the option yet to mask all player attributes forever? That one option would for me bring the game to life, leaving me to make my own judgements on stats and what I see in the ME, while at the same time making scout reports far more valuable. If I want a fast player its just to easy to pick player A because he has 18 pace rather than player b who has 16.

Not sure, but really doubt it. Users have modded skins that do this for you.

[RiverReveal666]

15 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Not sure, but really doubt it. Users have modded skins that do this for you.

wow, really?! thanks for the heads up!

[RBKalle]

That looks REALLY promising and, if executed correctly, game-changing both for short-term and long-term careers.

I shouldn't be even able to scout a guy who's (not) playing for the U18 team of a semi-obscure club in Ukraine just because my club's scouting range is "worldwide", let alone finding out his exact attributes in a matter of a week (or right away as it was in older editions).

Player ratings, pros and cons should only be based on MATCH STATS and highlights, ie. the in-game version of "hearsay" and "media hype" in some cases. THEN, attributes should still be kinda vague even upon closer scouting, and even when a player joins for good (or on trial) it'd take a while to get a final assessment.
Think of how many players joined with high expectations only to turn out much worse than previously thought. Or how many joined with little or no fanfare and became valuable assets.

I see it's unfeasible in a videogame, as all values are fixed, so a Passing 18 can't be a Passing 14 or a Passing 20, but maybe we'd get an A, B, C, D, E, F sort of general value, possible appliead to macro-areas (ie. the octagon).

That'd be awesome for FM19...

Meanwhile, I'll gladly take this revamp with fairly high hopes it'll make scouting worth my time again, compared to the current "let me search by attribute/value, then let's scout him just in case"

[phnompenhandy]

It does look great. I'll be unlikely to use any of it, being a lowest-league manager. However, I did like the passing mention that you can do the scouting yourself. I fancy hopping in my old Escort and driving to the next village to scout the school playing field. Sending my assman to scout the next opposition is a whole lot more interesting though.

[rdbayly]

Do you think you will need the nation / leagues actively running to access detailed stats of foreign players? 

It would be great to have access to a series of match clips to assess how good a forward player is when presented with chances.

It would also help to assess if wide players constantly cut inside and blaze it over the bar rather than play in a team mate. A source of constant irritation.

Edited October 11, 2017 by rdbayly

[michaeltmurrayuk]

5 hours ago, zehessc said:

Question is, how does this relate to the current ability star rating of the scout? This kinda already gives you his CA opinion which also changes according to the knowledge. I'm wondering if this new rating not only relates to your own team but your league/nation even maybe.

The level description was already in previous versions (Leading Championship Player text), looks like they have just added a number graphic to it as well to make it a bit more clear what the description means as it wasn't clear for example whether the useful description was better or worse than the decent one. The description was also absolute not relative like the stars, (though the staff opinions of this seem to change a lot more than the star ratings so it will be interesting to see how accurate this value is) so I'd guess the number is absolute as well - meaning you could have a 5 star player rated as 60 or a 2 star player rated as 60 depending on who you are playing as. If it works like that it should hopefully stop people complaining they don't have any five star players when they pack their team full of World Class Players as I'd presume this feature would rate them as 90+ players (or whatever the top range is - though hopefully it's not just a players CA/PA directly translated into the game).

[apvmoreira]

2 minutes ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

The level description was already in previous versions (Leading Championship Player text), looks like they have just added a number graphic to it as well to make it a bit more clear what the description means as it wasn't clear for example whether the useful description was better or worse than the decent one. The description was also absolute not relative like the stars, (though the staff opinions of this seem to change a lot more than the star ratings so it will be interesting to see how accurate this value is) so I'd guess the number is absolute as well - meaning you could have a 5 star player rated as 60 or a 2 star player rated as 60 depending on who you are playing as. If it works like that it should hopefully stop people complaining they don't have any five star players when they pack their team full of World Class Players as I'd presume this feature would rate them as 90+ players (or whatever the top range is - though hopefully it's not just a players CA/PA directly translated into the game).

You are saying that a player that is 60 has the PA or CA of 120? And a player of 90 is 180?

 

This would make Genie Scout obsolete 

[beardymouse]

Scouting looks amazing!

but why is the guy presenting it shouting at me? I'm only trying to watch a video. Settle down mate!

[michaeltmurrayuk]

2 minutes ago, apvmoreira said:

You are saying that a player that is 60 has the PA or CA of 120? And a player of 90 is 180?

 

This would make Genie Scout obsolete 

That's what it looks like from the screenshots/video - though it could be (and I expect it is as scouts don't have access to a players true PA) the scouts opinion of the CA/PA - so if he gives a rating of 60 depending on how good the scout is his CA might range from 100-130 or 75-150 etc... Or it could be even rougher - all Leading Champ rated players get a value of 60, then Decent Prem get 70, good Prem 80, Leading Prem 90, World Class 100 etc... So you only have the same information as before but in number format.

(Bare in mind - I don't have any more information than you do - this is just speculation based on the video/screenshots in the thread, we'll likely have to wait until release when we get hands on the game to see how it actually works).

[Walshieboy750]

26 minutes ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

That's what it looks like from the screenshots/video - though it could be (and I expect it is as scouts don't have access to a players true PA) the scouts opinion of the CA/PA - so if he gives a rating of 60 depending on how good the scout is his CA might range from 100-130 or 75-150 etc... Or it could be even rougher - all Leading Champ rated players get a value of 60, then Decent Prem get 70, good Prem 80, Leading Prem 90, World Class 100 etc... So you only have the same information as before but in number format.

(Bare in mind - I don't have any more information than you do - this is just speculation based on the video/screenshots in the thread, we'll likely have to wait until release when we get hands on the game to see how it actually works).

From what I understand it's how much the scout recommends the player out of 100, not a number that's half of the CA or PA.

[KUBI]

6 minutes ago, Walshieboy750 said:

From what I understand it's how much the scout recommends the player out of 100, not a number that's half of the CA or PA.

This. Was mentioned in the video and I did understand it the same way.

[enigmatic]

Yeah, I'd imagine the rating is loosely based on perceived potential ability but adjusted for personality, versatility, performances homegrown status, good ability for age, languages etc (basically the factors you see listed on scouting report)

[Weston]

All of this does look very interesting, particularly the budgeting, which seems like another one of those aspects that is incredibly frustrating yet undeniably realistic. Also, with how baffling the star ratings can be, it will be very interesting to make sense of this number in a magnifying glass...

Will be interesting to see if they fix the existing problems, though, such as not being able to scout a player with multiple staff simultaneously, not being able to have coaching staff report on a target player, not being able to easily compare reports on the same player from different staff, scouts with drastically different judging ability returning the exact same results, scout reports disappearing once a player is signed, the scale for the relative ratings in reports fluctuating without any explanation, update, or clarity, and not being able to see a timeline for when reports will become available, especially when requesting multiple reports from the same scout.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Weston

[Jason the Yank]

If this had been the first video, I would have snapped up the "contract extension" offer.

 

[pats]

The new scouting system and dynamics look really promising which will make the game more realistic.

The new player roles are my area of interest though. My only issue with FM 17 was not enough tactical depth, so if one of these roles make the wide players defend half spaces centrally as per the modern 4-4-2s, this will be the best FM for me by far. I also hope that AI managers are clever enough to use these roles. Fingers crossed.

[Jari Rantanen\'s Shorts]

Scouting sounds good, less convinced by data analysts tbh - very much wait and see on the latter

[MBarbaric]

one thing i'd like to see with scouts is their track record. a list of about 10 best players they had discovered. same with DoF, a list of 10 best players they brought into the academy.

[luka_zg]

So, I presume if you manage a big club with lots of money (or just any PL club), nothing really changes because you are able to buy all packages that are available.

But for clubs with limited resources it will be a smaller pool from where you can search?

[Liquid Cool]

At 4:30, the scout report contains two negative elements of the player; that he's only made 19 interceptions and only won 23 headers.

Why are these in absolutes and not averages per match? The total amount isn't really that important, is it? If another player has made 22 interceptions but also played 5 matches more - those 19 interceptions of the first player would actually be the better stat.  

[Spurs08]

23 hours ago, luka_ said:

So, I presume if you manage a big club with lots of money (or just any PL club), nothing really changes because you are able to buy all packages that are available.

But for clubs with limited resources it will be a smaller pool from where you can search?

You have to remember the game isn't just based around England. All PL clubs are big clubs with lots of money - the 20 PL teams are all in the top 30 in the world for revenue. Finances are a lot more limited for less notable clubs in Serie A or La Liga, for instance.

[Jason the Yank]

On 10/12/2017 at 10:58, Liquid Cool said:

At 4:30, the scout report contains two negative elements of the player; that he's only made 19 interceptions and only won 23 headers.

Why are these in absolutes and not averages per match? The total amount isn't really that important, is it? If another player has made 22 interceptions but also played 5 matches more - those 19 interceptions of the first player would actually be the better stat.  

I'd also like a "league average" somewhere to be able to make comparisons.

OK, this MC in my squad averages 3.7 interceptions. How does that compare to the league average? Is he better than or worse than average? If there's a way to find that, I've never been able to do so.