theballstopshere

Match engine, players AI and lack of realism in terms of tactics and player movement. I really hope for a much bigger leap before I commit another xxx hours of my life into the game.

Cool. I will give the beta a shot. Hopefully the ME and players' AI are much improved.

Dutch first division may not be the best but is definitely no slouch. And tbh, from what I have seen so far, I am not surprised if other goalkeepers (who are better) are reacting likewise to second balls. It has been an issue for a long time. Of course I am happy to be proven otherwise.

Of course errors should happen, own goals, wrong back pass, a pass that sold the keeper short... I was wrong in using the word 'error'. It should be an AI error. But that goal happened with the GK totally rooted despite 1) there not being a single team mate that the attacker could have crossed the ball to 2) the GK having the entire view in front of him, knowing that there was no other opposing players in the box (hence perhaps the long shot) 3) the goalmouth on his left was gaping even though almost all GKs will know to cover their near post (he did not even dive) You can't seriously tell me that only Allison and Ter Stegen would have know to cover that spot? In fact, all professional keepers should know that his near post must always be guarded, more so when there were no opposing players to cover. At the very least, he could have dived. But he was totally rooted. Well unless you are telling me that the guy who posted the video was playing a conference team. This is something I would like to know.

Nice goal. Unfortunately I see a couple of errors. The goalkeeper's reaction towards the second ball was shocking and unreal (seems like nothing has changed for this). A professional goalkeeper would have dived to cover his left post. Secondly (and a more forgivable error), the covering defender was not even making a tackle to prevent the shot.

This line pops up here very often. From FM die hards and even some of the mods. Very defensive and unhealthy.

I have read a lot of the feedback so far. To me, I am giving the feedback a pinch of sale as the beta is available to those who have bought the game, which means these are mostly the die-hard fans. And I also notice that the positive feedback are usually from those who buy the game year after year because they like how many hours they can put into the game (even if it has flaws). They don't really care or even notice the glaring flaws in the match engine or players' AI. They are more bought over by the new features. I watched the unveil video a week ago, as well as videos from those who are playing the beta version, and kept a keen eye out on the player movement, AI and such (so that it mirrors real life as much as possible), and to me, there still reamins a lot of work on the ME and AI. In fact, I think the ME needs a huge overhaul. May be I am old and jaded from playing so many versions of the game. I feel that as I get to appreciate the finer points of football (tactics, movement, pressing, counter pressing, setting traps, passing lanes...) I realise how many flaws there are in FM, and that just turns me off as I can no longer afford to spend so much time on a game so flawed as this. And one that prides itself on actual football manager simulation. I think the management aspect of the game is trucking along well especially with player pathway and club vision, just not the football ME, which to me makes or break the game. I understand that it is perhaps the most difficult part of the game to get right. Unfortunately it is to me the most important as well. For a start, I would like to see: - improved goalkeepers' reactions to second and rebounded balls - more one on ones - keepers charging out of their line and playing a high line like i want them to (and these keepers have high rushing out stats) - players tussling for balls - more accurate player movements, reactions and AI - more realistic goals Once the above is sorted to a decent level, we can then talk about raising the tactics to reflect more of the modern game. I don't know, I think they are very reasonable requests for a game as old as this. I will give the demo a try and get back.

Gosh, even in EPL and Europa??? This is no good. In fact, the more I look at it, the more I see unreal stuff. First, the defender who was marking the forward was unrealistically slow to react to the high ball. Second, he did not even put a tackle in or hustle and push the forward to force him out wide. I am no professional player but I would have done that for sure. lol I personally cannot play the game with such obvious flaws in the ME and players' AI. Hopefully things change much better real soon.

there were four defenders on one forward. in a proper game, the other centre defender would have popped over to provide cover for his defender, thus being able to block the shot or put a sliding tackle in. he was just running straight back towards his own goal, without a forward with him. This is not right. in fact, the more i look at it the more i see 'un-lifelike' things happening. first, the defender who was marking the forward was unrealistically slow to react to the high ball, and second, he did not even put a tackle in or at least try to hustle with the forward. would like to see if the same happens in the top tier leagues.

Gosh. You mean these issues are still in FM20??? Geez. I reckon the GKs still cannot save rebounded balls, or second shots and there are no one on ones? That's it. I be giving this a miss. To me, the match engine is one of the most important aspects of the game, perhaps the most. Sad, as I am looking forward to hearing good reviews.

Agree. So far I think it's only the video of them three right?

I was hoping to see similar stuff, modern tactics or at the very least, a more sharpened reflection of the existing tactics through the game play. Players need to play (move, defend, attack, press, counterpress...) as close as possible to that of a professional football game and react accordingly to my tactic.

Look very similar to FM19, like you I was hoping to see a bigger leap in improvement. Though I guess we cannot take this 'first cut' as final I guess? And maybe it is a championship game so the players' standards are compromised? May be they should show a game that involves liverpool or manchester city. Some first-look observations: - GK's reaction is better but still seem very rooted to the line, and I have yet to see any one-on-one (hopefully it is implemented) - Wingbacks defend better now, and tuck in to defend alongside their centrebacks as compared to previously when they are always out on the wings - Not much improvement, if any, to the tactics panel, player shouts and halftime encouragements are the same - Pressing still seems haphazard and players' movement, AI needs improvement - Towards the end of the video (2h35mins onwards), there was an instant on the flank when the attacking midfielder did something totally out of touch with real life, and it happens regularly in FM19, and I put it down to poor AI - Would love to see players sometimes doing something out of their tactical instructions, like strikers (high workrate and teamwork) chasing back to defend as his team is caught up in a counterattacking situation, or a GK doing a quick kick out to his attacker (who is free) for a fast counterattack despite instructions to kick/throw ball to the flank or my player running out to defend a short corner despite not having instructions to do so - Would love to see players standing shoulder to shoulder and arms over each others shoulders when they are in a penalty shootout situation - Would love to see more realistic players' benches

Fair enough. I get where you are coming from. To be honest though, I always think that my eye for bugs is very poor, and I have ventured into the bugs reporting post before and wanted to post. Then I realise that the stuff that I have pointed out (players running in a straight line after an opposition, wingbacks never tuck in, GKs having zero reaction to second balls) are glaringly obvious and have been repeated ad nauseam by many others (which I have also pointed out in my previous posts). Hence I don't see the need to go and report it again for fear of spamming.

I tell you what. I will make it easier for you guys. These are the 'new feature requests' you want me to state, and i will repeat myself again, and this time, with more details. - Improve GK AI: a) GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper) b) More GKs one on one with strikers (virtually non-existent now) c) Better GK's reactions to second balls, balls off the goal frame (right now they are just rooted and have zero reaction to second balls) - Improve players' AI: a) players' movement is not realistic - I play narrow defence but my two wingbacks almost never tuck in to support the central defenders b) players tussling (I don't see how I can further explain this) c) players playing towards set tactics and moving and pressing like they are professional players (or close to it) - again, I am not sure how much clearer I can be on this d) players still attacking and giving the ball away (by crossing into opp box) even though I set tactics to defensive, and to waste time, as I defend a one goal lead in the 89th min, be great to see them running towards the corner flag I think just the above is more than enough work for SI? And I believe just fulfilling the above will go a long way to satiating a lot of fans. Pressing triggers is something that I will need more time to work on. It can get very detailed. But rest assure I am not expecting that in the game. If you want to see my thoughts on pressing triggers (and if you think that it is actionable), just shout out, I am more than happy to provide it.