MBarbaric

you can't really analyse a game by looking only the data. you should watch the match and see what went wrong. the data is there to point you in one direction or other, or to confirm what you see. you should take a replay of the game and see how was the balance of your team when you lost possessio, where you were losing possession, where is the space...

this info shouldn't be in some random thread on the forum. It should be written in big red letters just under Retain Possession tab.

it doesn't pay to just guess. maybe CM-A indeed, but you need to think. so, if we talk about above example... Our goal was to exploit the winger with poor workrate. We decided we will do that by overloading his zone (left flank). Then watch how your players, and opposition, react when the ball is in that zone. is the weakness that we identified a weakness indeed? If it appears so, how is our plan working? do we get the ball there? do we actually exploit that weakness? - how does the opposition react when we are in that zone? - Where does space appear? - Do we exploit it? - If not, who can make runs into that space to exploit it better?

Pretty much yes. However, even if the player has low work rate player, it doesn't mean he will never be in position. anyway, you need 2/3 players in that zone who will hold the balland one that runs into space, Which one needs to run into space depends on where the space is. If the full back moves aggressively towards the ball, the space will be behind his back. So an overlapping full back or a CM/CF moving from central corridor towards the channel. if the fb stays back and the flank is covered by their CM, the space will be behind the cm so you will need different run. it is up to you to see who, from where and where to.

that is good actually as it saves a lot of frustration. However, don't make a mistake and think about RL tactics from FM perspective

don't worry, some people learn visually, some do it by watching, listening... it doesn't tell anything about you as a person. the point is: look at opposition formation and try to figure where they will have the least amount of players when they don't have the ball. Usually in areas where they have attacking minded players, or in areas that are poorly covered due to their formation. then chose roles that will occupy that area and create at least a numerical parity. this will occupy opposition players in that area and make them difficult to track another of yours. then add at least one of your players to make forward runs from deep from this area into space behind the defensive unit and hope that your players will have the ability to see and serve him with a pass. once you achieved that, you can try to be really clever and provide different options in other zones of the pitch.

that has to be one of the best overlaps I've seen in some time never considered the ME would operate on such basic principles. However, if you have all the players hold the position, how can you create an overlapping run? I would really like to see Guardiola facing the TC, setting up a tactic and watch it play out. I bet he would rage quit well, there is much more to an overload than what a random youtube video on FM will tell you.

sorry to hear that. If you'd be more precise I could try to explain it better.

First, usin an overload in FM is much more difficult than in real. You can create it fairly easily in FM and example with inverted wing backs is good one. Another, fairly common and used is playing a DLFs who drops deep into the middle third adding another body to ensure numerical advantage (or at least parity). A roaming playmaker also naturaly creates overloads as he roams the pitch and moves sideways. On the flanks, the most frequent way to create an overload is by an overlapping full back. If you also have a mezzala moving in wide zone or half space, you add additional body. A forward that drifts wide is potentially a fourth man in the same zone. So there are a few fairly comon examples. Where the FM differs from a game of football is using the overload. A real coach will have established patterns of movement. Each player involved will know where to go in order to unbalance the defensive unit and exploit the advantage. It can be done by simple rotation i.e. the winger moves deep, the CM runs diagonally into W's position and the FB moves diagonally into the half space. In addition, a striker might drop deep into half-space. ST \ (Direct pass option) / \ / \ \ / W-------------------- FB (Switch of point of attack) W \ /(direct vertical pass) I I \ I I \ I I CM CM (sideways option) I I / I / DM (recycle option) I / I FB I CB (i.e. on the ball) In this example player on the ball will have three different passing options on the flank and will choose appropriately depending on his capabilities and reaction of the defensive unit. In addition to options on the targeted flank, the coach will designate options to recycle possession with a back-pass, move the ball centrally with a side pass and attack the depth with a vertical pass. This all happens in the same zone of left flank and half-space. Moreover, the coach might offer a third option towards the full back on the weak side (switch of point of attack) and even fourth, direct, option for a winger on a diagonal run behind the line. In FM however, you can't really control any of these. All you can do is to mix the duties and mentalities hoping the players will use created space. in a way it is way more difficult than in real life as you don't have control to really create conditions to effectively use an overload. It becomes more situational and circumstantial. As said above, FM isn't football. It is a game on its own where you have to master its own rules that don't necessarily have to follow real football logic. so, having some knowledge about real football tactics will help you to know what you want your players to do on the pitch. However, to actually be able to do it, you need to know how shape/mentality/role/duty/TI's/PI's interact. I 100% guarantee you that Guardiola would completely suck at this game and Rashidi or Cleon would wipe the floor with him if they had a chance.

Not really. The idea of overload is what it says - overload a certain zone on the pitch. It means you create a situation where you have a numerical advantage or at least numerical parity. once these conditions are created, it is either quick short passing that releases a player behind the back line, a third man run from deep, overlap... whatever. what you describe as an overload above, is actually a switch of point of attack. it is either a deliberate move where you deliberately lure opposition to one side (Guardiola i.e.) to quickly switch the point of attack towards the weak flank of the opponent where (hopefully) you get a 1v1 situation for your skilful dribbler to get past his marker. This can also be a secondary option in case the opposition covers the overload so, instead of recycling possession, you immediately attack the other side. What is important is to have a plan B. if overload doesn't work, provide a different option.

should be a pass leading to a shot or an assist.

Hope it is just an impulsive decision as it is always sad to see people go over some difference in opinions. As one of these two contacting you, I can say I was sorry to see the thread being closed. Right or wrong, that is down to the discretion of a mod. If you feel it shouldn't be closed, there's a button on the bottom of the page to report the issue. That being said, I think Cleon didn't attack you and you shouldn't be so defensive. He might have been too direct or whatever, but I don't see it anything more than a difference of opinions. And frankly, as I saw it, you were both talking about the same thing from different angles. The shape really doesn't influence if the player holds the ball or dribbles. As everyone acknowledged, this is primarily down to role/duty. For some reason, you both decided to stick to your guns concentrating on difference instead of what you both agree on. However, shape does influence the likelihood of dribble/run into space. to be more precise, if you have a structured shape, A LW on attack will have higher mentality (higher starting position, possibly more isolated). He is also likely to have "dribble more" instruction. This can create conditions for him to get into more 1v1 situations and more likely to drive forward instigating quick transitions/counter attacks once the ball is won. That is, I guess, what Rashidi refers to in those quotes.

this is a horrendous thread exactly on topic here hope SI reads that as it blatantly shows that virtually nobody understands frigging shape. People attribute to it what it doesn't do, misinterpret it... and all this after it has been 10 years in the game. EDIT: Love how it got closed down for being off topic these forums are really going south

I think you should all take a step back as this isn't productive anymore. Personally, I don't think FM recognizes transitions or that you can do anything about it directly. They occur situationally in the match and you will influence them by the tempo/roles/passing/mentality... Another thing is that people are confusing transitions with counter attacks. while all counter attacks are transitions, not all transitions are counter attacks. A transition can be whichever change of current state. In football, we talk about the transition from one phase of play to another ( i. e. defending - attacking). This doesn't necessarily involve a quick counter-attack which is another thing. It can be a simple transition from defensive third to attacking third where you advance vertically (i.e. playing out of the back) without an aim to go and score a goal immediately (as there are no conditions for a quick counter-attack). If anything, this thread speaks volumes about FM's usability.

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