MBarbaric

i think the problem is with the way the instruction is implemented. in real, as you can see from above examples from Gremio and Corinthians, the teams use play from the back with certain aim. to get access to different zones on the pitch or specific players on the ball providing alternatives as well. it is also tied to how teams proceede to attack once they consolidate possession in the middle third but that is another topic. In short, teams that play from the back do it for a specific reason that you can't force in the game. so, what it really does is just artificially makes the thing look like it is supposed to (cb's split) without really serving a specific purpose. Jack Joyce states above "There's not really a simple way to show these kind of ME interactions in the UI..." it isn't simple because the game is reverse ingeneering (so to speak) what happens in real without replicating the most important part - why it happens.

how do you play from the back with direct passing? I mean, if you play out from the back it means you want to play short and arrive in the middle third in an organized manner. isn't direct passing meant to get the ball quickly higher up the pitch which contradicts with playing out of the back? shouldn't then play out of the back override passing (length) instructions completely, at least in the defensive third? to elaborate a bit, teams that play from the back frequently do it with different scenarios in mind. i.e. above is an example of two scenarios. 1) blue circle - the team plays to the right side and quickly switches the ball towards the left flank (blue circle). There, two cm's #17/#15 provide central short passing options while the winger #22 drops into half space offering another short passing option with the fb #35 optionally moving on an overlap to provide wide passing option. 2) red circle - central forward #20 is used as a direct passing option or as an outlet for clearances if the opposition manages to press the team. above is another example where two cm's (#5 and #8) change duties with one of them dropping between the centerbacks (#8). if this encourages the opposition to press high into the orange rectangle zone, the full back #6 will move high up the pitch while the the half space is occupied by the second cm #5. he is provided with wide short passing option to full back (green circle). the second, central short passing options are provided by the winger dropping deep and the cam #38 (blue circle). The central forward (red circle) serves as an outlet for clearances if the opposition manages to cover passing options. in this scenario, two wingers look to run behind the cf in order to get on the end of flick ons (red rectangle). so, there is place for direct passing when playing from the back but there needs to be purpose and idea behind it.

If it is of any importance, I am match analyst and do this for living so I took your five examples and checked them. Some definitions you may or may not agree but here it is: GOAL 1 Phase of play: quick transition with no control in the middle/attacking third. Attack starts: Middle third With: CAM sideways pass towards the left flank Ends: with winger making a 40m solo run scoring after a deflection Goal trigger: poor defending from whole D-unit (or a great individual run, whichever you prefer). That surely isn't a key pass, and i'd argue it isn't even an assist. the pass from the CAM doesn't take out anyone in defensive unit, it is in the middle third and all the work is done by the winger. GOAL 2 Phase of play: counter attack Attack starts: in defensive third With: CAM successfully completing a direct pass that takes out 8 opposition players Ends: with RW receiving the ball in attacking third, proceeding on a solo run to score Goal trigger: poor defensive transition A genuine assist GOAL 3 Phase of play: counter attack Attack start: the ball is won high up the pitch on the left flank in attacking third, With: CAM making a side pass towards the box for a tap in Goal trigger: individual defensive error A genuine assist GOAL 4 Phase of play: positional attack? Attack starts: with an overload on the right flank With: CAM making a side pass towards the central corridor Ends: with a long shot from the edge of the box Goal trigger: Blue RW #20 too wide, unable to help defend the central corridor A genuine assist GOAL 5 Phase of play: Counter attack Attack starts: in defensive third With: CAM on a solo run and a through ball towards #21 Ends: with a first time shot from the box Goal trigger: poor defensive transition. white #5 leaving the opposition #21 to close down CAM A genuine assist So to summarize, - there is only one assist from an attack developed in attacking third (GOAL 4) - three assists from counter attacks (GOALS 2, 3 and 5) - one assist to a 40 yard solo run that isn't really an assist only one from what I can see it isn't about CAM's not having any influence on matches really. It is more about CAM's generally being ineffective during positional attacks as more advanced players lack movement in the attacking third. This has twofold effect in the ME: a) CAM's (or any player in central corridor) has no secure passing options since advanced players are marked out due to lack of movement b) the only safe option is wide You didn't really as 4 out of five assists by your CAM are during counter attacks and/or transitions. Only one was against a set-up defense. And even that one ended with a long shot.

it isn't only about completed through balls, it is about attempted through balls. It is important also in what phase (counter attack or positional attack)... above is key passes diagram from Barcelona v Tottenham match yesterday. It is difficult to compare real life stats with FM as lots of things aren't compatible. That being said, there were 14 key passes of which 5 through balls (2' 40'', 58' 40'', 81' 18'', 83' 10'' and 91' 20''), against a set defence, three of them successful. Others were on counter attacks (2), Through balls played over the top of the defence (2), a cross (1)... I understand this means nothing as it is only one match, however, I challenge you to find an AI match where one team attempts 5 through balls from attacking third against a set defence. Above is the pass map of Barcelona which one should compare to AI in FM to get any conclusions. And finally, above are Barcelona passes into the box for the same match. There are a total of 10 passes into the box. Only four coming from wide area (two of them were free kicks and one a corner kick). There's only one cross and the rest are vertical or angled balls.

however, the ME is unbalanced in one way or the other for years now. Three years ago we got FM 16 which was the first ME that had full backs extremely overpowered. They had glorious av ratings and numerous assists per season. Far post crosses galored. FM17- SI reworked the ME and to stifle rampaging full backs in previous year, wingers were hard coded to stay wider in defensive phase. this sorted out the full backs kind of, but wide opened the play in central corridor. This crept on to fm18 with fisherman's friend exploit. FM19- SI finally recognized that all teams in real keep narrow defensive shape and slide towards the ball by introducing defensive width. They also recognized that keeping wingers hard-coded to flanks wasn't really the solution to full backs (since that leaves central midfielders isolated and easily overloaded in most dangerous part of the pitch, central corridor). However, as now the defensive unit is (rightfully) more compact, central play is completely out of the place. Hence all the play being funneled towards the flanks for cross. In other words, the movement of strikers (and not only them. Ever compared how teams in real play from the back as opposed to FM?) was always the problem in the ME. But, since the defensive phase of the ME was so far from defensive principles in football, the offensive phase of the ME was still working despite being out of place itself. This wasn't really noticed nor acknowledged by playerbase or mods. Now that defensive phase is kind of, brought up to standard, the attacking phase is wide exposed. The ME unfortunatelly has an underlying problem that is the reason why SI runs in circles plugging one hole just to create another. It is off the ball movement. The whole substance of the football revolves not around the man on the ball and the ball itself, but around those players without the ball. These are the players that create space. And if you analyze the game of football, you will notice that the play is created as a response to constant off the ball movement. From the moment the goalkeeper passes the ball to the center back, the whole team moves in synchrony in order to create space for the next player to receive the pass with space and time to move the ball forward. ME has always lacked even basic movement. You can't even switch positions of two central midfielders (not sure if as basic shift as two wingers changing sides is in the ME) and this is the corner stone of football. As people around this forum like to remind, if you enter this unrealistic behaviour, you can't expect anything but unrealistic response. This time around, it is in shape of ball being constantly played wide. Of course, there are number of other factors at play that govern this and surely it isn't so simplistic. However, by watching the development in recent years, I am absolutely convinced the only solution is to rewrite the way players move on the pitch. Might be completely wrong

Could you be a bit more constructive here? I am really interested to hear what exactly is inaccurate from SI's perspective. As far as I am aware, these summaries are made by a program code that goes through stats and singles out things that stand out. Stats or summaries might be off to an extent and I went to check Liverpool and Arsenal. While Arsenal is spot on, Liverpool appears to be "wrongly" associated with attacking through the middle. However, depending on the source for the stats, it might be true ( i.e. if the source considers the middle corridor to be wider than my source). Overall, I'd be surprised if it was really wrong.

indeed, but then the defensive width wasn't a thing. Now, that defence tries at least to properly cover the strong side, the attack is completely bogged down. football is all about movement precisely because the defence covers space so well in modern game. Once you have better defending in ME, you need to match it with better attacking movement. otherwise, ball gets spread wide and results with a cross blocked or a corner kick. another thing... When I observe players in my FM 16 save, every now and again, there is a match where players won't make off the ball runs while the same players with same instructions did those runs three days before. They largely behave like FM19. Maybe, there is a link between their motivation/workrate/morale that works under the hood additionally mudding waters in FM19?

this. and it extends to human user as well (although, we are able to work around some issues). you simply can't introduce "play from the back" instruction and expect magic to work the ball out of the back. a team that plays from the back needs off the ball movement from all 11 players in order to play around well pressing opposition. it needs clear idea where it wants to exit their defensive third, it needs different options and off the ball movement to be able to create passing lanes. I apologize to anyone who has already seen this, but I think it is worth repeating this. Above is a random example of a team playing from the back with two different approaches. a) red - with an aim to play in the half space b) blue - with an aim to play down the flank In the red example, the key player is the winger #17 dropping deep in the half space to pick the ball and CAM #7 simultaneously moving higher up the pitch offering a passing option in more advanced position. In blue, you see the CM #21 offering a short passing option and #7 offering central passing option while CM#5 offers security in both examples. Now, these are only two examples of only one phase (playing out of the back). You can see that AM#7 has two distinctive behaviours depending on the side of the pitch. You will notice that RW#17 drops very deep to pick up the ball in the half space. What role/mentality/position in FM behaves like that? And again, this is only in two examples of only one phase of play. All these players have different behaviours in different phases in different zones on the pitch. The way FM represents roles/positions/duties is infinitely more reductive than what actually happens on the pitch. In one moment a CAM is CM, in another, he is a winger, IF... and that is only in offensive phase and without touching on rotations or the defensive phase. There simply is no way you can get "correct" passing decisions in the game if there simply are no passing options. And there are no passing options because there is no movement. And there is no movement because how roles/positions/duties/formations work within TC. This lack of movement is equally visible in all thirds of the pitch in all offensive phases. one of the biggest problems with roles/duties system as we have it, is that it is too rigid. A winger will always repeat same movement pattern, CM, F9... all of them. In reality, each player has different role in different parts of pitch during different phases of the game. ME is fairly competent representing direct football which is basically what roles/duties are. however, modern football is way too fluid to shoehorn it with current roles/duties. This is why possession oriented teams suffer. Especially now that there is specific defensive width instruction that can cover the middle completely locking down central play.

indeed, except, premutations in real football generally don't appear because the manager wasn't quite sure what his instructions meant.

because that is how city creates space for players in the half space. wingers/full backs stay o the touchline on both sides to stretch the back line. theoretically, this ensures more space in half spaces between the opposition lines for two CM's and/or inverted full backs. you see here the width is covered by full backs (#12/#2). this stretches the back line allowing more space in the half-space (blue circle). With rotations from W's/Fb's/CM/AM/SC the team in possession unbalances the defense looking for a vertical ball (red circle). Depending on opposition reactions, the ball is kept/recycled, switched to weak flank or the attack continues down the wing (green circle).

indeed, I put numbers from last season not this one. However, I went to check the EPL stats from last season on their website. Total crosses: 14 232 Average per Team: 711,6 Average per match: 18,7 Above is my source with 13. The difference of 5 crosses per match probably emerges from set pieces (5.3 crosses per match, at least according to my sources ) While we don't know, EPL stats may lump together crosses from set pieces with crosses from open play (at least the numbers above seem to suggest so). as far as I am aware, FM does that as well. So 18 crosses (set pieces + open play) was the average for EPL last season. anywway, it only shows how different stats providers have different definitions on crosses, hence different results. at this point, it is pretty difficult to compare any stat with the ME as nobody knows what is the definition of (i.e. cross) from stats provider to stats provider and FM on top of it.

I've set-up (insert any posh manager/style here) tactics! I've set-up working pressing tactic! I've managed to get my team play like ManCity!

Funny how uneducated we all are when judging stats, especially if we work on feelings. So let's check some real stats: Average number of goals conceded from set pieces last season in EPL (38 matches) was 15 so you conceded double in only 20% more matches Note that the actual number is 14,1 but the program is making some silly rounding. Plus, it includes goals from penalties and throw ins. So, if zou take out penalties, throw-ins and direct free kicks) it is 10. So, you actually concede 300% more in 20% more matches.

I meant how are goals created. through ball, cross, direct pass over the defence... Also, I've noticed you scored 6 overhead kick goals in 50 matches, you must have Ibra on steroids in your squad

Just one question, what is the most common goal type he scores?