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1 minuto atrás, Double0Seven disse:

 

You do realise they cant just make this game for people with insane computers and stuff right? Not everyone is rich or spends money on a good PC. They cant just set aside a good chunk of the playerbase because you want a better game. 

And that was the exact point I brought in, I also don't have a insane rig, not even close, but with stadia and some other cloud services in the door,maybe, just maybe the community will start to transition to it. The problem is that most of the players find kits, players faces and other things like this so important that they are already refusing to go there, and this put SI in a worrible position, where they can upgrade the game because they got the tecnology, but they can't upgrade the game because the players don't have the harware to support it.

 

5 minutos atrás, Double0Seven disse:

If this was a real simulation, none of us would survive. Good luck competing against realistic versions of Pep, Klopp and whatever. The game would be harsh as hell and 99.9% of the playerbase would be gone. 

SI need to keep some "fun" elements in it and tone it down a bit. Otherwise the game would be completely ridiculous. There is no difficulty bar and I hope there never will be one. Compare the management aspects of the game to other popular management games and you realise that they are already quite in depth. Its not that bad. 

 

Then they need to stop the statment that they have a simulation game and sey they just have a management game. SImulations doesn't care if you know what you are doing or not, they just give you the game and say "do your thing''. See racing simulation games, if you don't know how to properly race and just go as fast as you can, you will lose hard. I remember some guys saying forza (i guess?) was boring because the cars didn't drift, and were heavy, but that was a simulation of a proper car. 

SI really needs to know who they want to please, because on one hand mods say that if the game was equal to RL management, no one would play because would be ultra difficult, and then in the other hand they come in and SI "FM is a simulation". It is contraditory. I am here because I want this game to be harder, to be frustating, but not with AI knowing hidden things, or something like that, but the game being realistic, with AI fighting hard for that wonderkid, with a epic tactical battle in final, decided by a mistake that real players would do. While I want more of a simulation instead of fun, I know I am the minority here.

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7 hours ago, yolixeya said:

You can clearly see in game that man management is one of the imporatant attributes for head coaches. I guess it affects how the AI manager manages his squad, handles discipline etc... It's not so impotant for your own coaches other then maybe U19, u23 head coaches and assistant managers.

Well it's not clear what it does if you have to guess what it effects and that's a problem isn't it? And I'm saying it should certainly have an effect on all of those coaches, and that is something that should be worked on before adding more meaningless staff roles where only one or two attributes matter.

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2 horas atrás, masno disse:

Then they need to stop the statment that they have a simulation game and sey they just have a management game. SImulations doesn't care if you know what you are doing or not, they just give you the game and say "do your thing''. See racing simulation games, if you don't know how to properly race and just go as fast as you can, you will lose hard. I remember some guys saying forza (i guess?) was boring because the cars didn't drift, and were heavy, but that was a simulation of a proper car. 

SI really needs to know who they want to please, because on one hand mods say that if the game was equal to RL management, no one would play because would be ultra difficult, and then in the other hand they come in and SI "FM is a simulation". It is contraditory. I am here because I want this game to be harder, to be frustating, but not with AI knowing hidden things, or something like that, but the game being realistic, with AI fighting hard for that wonderkid, with a epic tactical battle in final, decided by a mistake that real players would do. While I want more of a simulation instead of fun, I know I am the minority here.

I've wrote in a previous post why FM can't be a truly realistic game. You would only win by managing the favorite title contenders, and eventually, of all the player base, one of them would be able to make Leicester champion, just like it only happened once IRL. The fun would be gone for the vast majority of players, including the best ones.

 

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5 hours ago, Double0Seven said:

If this was a real simulation, none of us would survive. Good luck competing against realistic versions of Pep, Klopp and whatever. The game would be harsh as hell and 99.9% of the playerbase would be gone. 

SI need to keep some "fun" elements in it and tone it down a bit. Otherwise the game would be completely ridiculous. There is no difficulty bar and I hope there never will be one. Compare the management aspects of the game to other popular management games and you realise that they are already quite in depth. Its not that bad. 

You do realise they cant just make this game for people with insane computers and stuff right? Not everyone is rich or spends money on a good PC. They cant just set aside a good chunk of the playerbase because you want a better game. 

The last paragraph is a point SI have made many times, but there will come a time when they can't continue to support 20 year old computers.  the film industry didn't stop bringing out DVD's just because a load of people still had VHS players. SI have already made a start on this by no longer supporting 32 bit

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As to the above Statement About the game being "harsh as hell" if it were a "realistic" Simulation of actual Football management.

 

Arguably, it already is harsher than for any Manager in Football. After all, the game ships to Football fans and asks them to figure out fairly Basic Things in all Areas of the Job (which the AI, generally, are somewhat capable of). Therefore, the way the game is set up it is "comparably" easy to do things that are guaranteed the human managed side is will underperform drastically. Never seen a human managed Team shipping 3 Goals average per match? That's the game.

That aside, obviously not every Manager in the world is a Klopp, Guardiola, et all. Actually, economists such as Simon Kuper suggest that most of them roughly see eye to eye, e.g. there would be few Managers in history who would consistently get their sides to overperform. The game is just not set up like that at all. It allows Newcomers and Oldtimers who don't get the hang of it easily to make fairly Basic mistakes that are guaranteed to make them underperform (and I'd Question that any Manager in actual Football Management makes Basic mistakes -- they may misjudge Things, but not stumple at the more Basic Things).

At the same time though, what it rewards is generally is mostly fairly "common sense" -- so Players can "suffer" on both Ends. Those that find it "harsh" as is -- and those that wish for at least one or two Ai Managers that may roughly be somewhat like the elite Managers in actual Football. If the game were to simulate a "realistic" Management Environment, then those sometimes frustrating gaps between camps wouldn't exist. However, it may also mean that randomness may have more of an influence… which in the eyes of some would make it less of a "game" and may not be perceived that well. If you've ever played the game online against Peers that are roughly your equal as opposed to AI, you may understand this a tad better.

https://fs.blog/2012/11/the-paradox-of-skill/

Edited by Svenc
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8 ore fa, Double0Seven ha scritto:

If this was a real simulation, none of us would survive. Good luck competing against realistic versions of Pep, Klopp and whatever. The game would be harsh as hell and 99.9% of the playerbase would be gone. 

SI need to keep some "fun" elements in it and tone it down a bit. Otherwise the game would be completely ridiculous. There is no difficulty bar and I hope there never will be one. Compare the management aspects of the game to other popular management games and you realise that they are already quite in depth. Its not that bad. 

You do realise they cant just make this game for people with insane computers and stuff right? Not everyone is rich or spends money on a good PC. They cant just set aside a good chunk of the playerbase because you want a better game. 

You sadly confuse harshness with realism.

Hide hard coded routines and schemes behind half confusing  roles, team and player instructions and PIs doesn't make the game an inch easier for newcomers.

If I am a newbie and I setup a man marking (with the outdated instruction we have in the ME) I think that my player will follow the opponent, not wander around pressing aimlessly and then sometimes "Doh! I should mark that guy, where he is? Oh 20 yards away, let run aimlessly a little more"

If I am a newbie and setup "pass into space" I want my forwards make a lot of off ball runs, no matter if they risk to be offside most often than not (this is what off the ball value should be taken in account against positioning).

If I am a newbie and I setup "tight marking" I want my defenders stick to the opponents not waiting for them 2-3 yards distant.

If I am a newbie I want ME to replicate as much as possible the football I watch on TV not some strange playing that has little similarity with reality.

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Loving the sound of the new features, just hope they're exactly what they look like they are in game. The club philosophy one is huge, hoping you can be halfway through a plan towards youth development, with a board who aren't too pushy, only for a takeover to happen and they demand instant success with big signings.

Do you wilt to their demands? Try and keep your own way going and hope they change their mind? Or move on to a club more willing to agree with your ideals? 

They sort of had it before, but this makes it far more obvious what the board are actually wanting from you. 

Like the ability to see your best youth prospects, and which players your coaches believe are worth working on, at a glance too, will help in Italy when you have about 80 players at each level. Far more realistic approach than sorting the squad of players by star rating...

Not sure why theres always so many complaints about the same things in here. The argument about making the AI more realistic is fair, but not to the levels some people are wanting. Guardiola spends the majority of every day studying his own teams training sessions, and opponents matches. Do people think the majority of players want to finish a 9 hour shift at work, and then spend hours in front of their laptops doing that, simply to try and compete with the best manager on the planet, who in AI form would barely make mistakes?

 

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9 hours ago, masno said:

I guess all this problem leads to the old phrase "FM is stagnating". The problem right now is that SI simply don't need to upgrade the ME, or even to rewrite it, if any of us dislike it, what can we do? This is the only good management game in the market, the only one with such depth, and exactly because of this that SI take baby steps in their development. For some years right now we see the game having small to medium changes in most of the features, and thats the consequence of a combination: yearly launch doesn't help much with revolutionary changes, and the lack of a competitor trying to take FM's place also make the game stay as it is.

If SI really wanted the game to just be the real simulation of football, they would go full on the ME and on modern tactical concepts, make the core and what is really important (almost) perfect, and then going on the rest. But right now they don't need that. It is so obvious that some aspects in the ME need some fixing, or even a rewrite, but this costs money and time, but why you do something like that when you know that you are the only option, and wanting or not,people will need to buy your game to play it.

I risk to say SI already have other ME in the oven for some years now, with better moves, modern gameplay etc etc. But because of the players with old rigs, with no competition and with a multitude of "features" ready to launch year after year, they decide to just take the easy path and not touch (or talk) about it now.

This idea that SI don't rewrite chunks of ME when they need to is false. Important to clarify. Appreciate not everyone might notice or see what's said, but perhaps why people should avoid sweeping statements

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14 hours ago, leviathan1904 said:

Somehow strange: People complain about the ME, although no news about the ME has been published yet. It is quite clear that there will be changes. But they weren't announced in the headline features, because it is a separate section. So, patience... 

No news about ME but it’s quite clear there will be changes. Lol.

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30 minutes ago, Armistice said:

No news about ME but it’s quite clear there will be changes. Lol.

There are always changes. We just had one batch of news about some new features. It doesn't mean nothing else was worked on. The ME has a dedicated team, so work never stops there.

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I'm a bit confused at the minute, granted not hard to do or could be because I don't do social media, but I'm looking for feature announcements and I can't see any, apart from what's on first page, maybe I'm missing something but have been looking for more, but IF better medal ceremonies and league rule changes are it, I have to say I'm worried what other "features" are going to be announced. I was feeling flat after the first 2 announcements though I applaud the effort regarding the packaging and the Arsenal edition, alright for gunners, BUT what about your average joe who usess steam and doesn't support Arsenal, and I know I'm in a minority now-a-days, but what about those people who don't use social media. Last year I thought you did well with all the release stuff. I don't normally moan when I post here, but I think you may be forgetting your older fan-base and loyal customers to pander to the younger ones, instead of striking a balance, though I know you are trying to please everyone. Sorry for rant and I look forward to some bigger announcements to come.

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5 minutes ago, toffee71 said:

I'm a bit confused at the minute, granted not hard to do or could be because I don't do social media, but I'm looking for feature announcements and I can't see any, apart from what's on first page, maybe I'm missing something but have been looking for more, but IF better medal ceremonies and league rule changes are it, I have to say I'm worried what other "features" are going to be announced. I was feeling flat after the first 2 announcements though I applaud the effort regarding the packaging and the Arsenal edition, alright for gunners, BUT what about your average joe who usess steam and doesn't support Arsenal, and I know I'm in a minority now-a-days, but what about those people who don't use social media. Last year I thought you did well with all the release stuff. I don't normally moan when I post here, but I think you may be forgetting your older fan-base and loyal customers to pander to the younger ones, instead of striking a balance, though I know you are trying to please everyone. Sorry for rant and I look forward to some bigger announcements to come.

There won’t be any bigger announcements. They’ve announced the main new features and they are crap. 

FM 2019.5 out in November...buy it! 

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36 minutes ago, akm.91 said:

There won’t be any bigger announcements. They’ve announced the main new features and they are crap. 

FM 2019.5 out in November...buy it! 

Crap? I'll tell you what's crap, your comment.  Not constructive in the slightest and I'm betting you'll still buy it straight away

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54 minutes ago, akm.91 said:

There won’t be any bigger announcements. They’ve announced the main new features and they are crap. 

FM 2019.5 out in November...buy it! 

 

15 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Crap? I'll tell you what's crap, your comment.  Not constructive in the slightest and I'm betting you'll still buy it straight away

Please be both more constructive and more courteous to each other. FM20 hasn't arrived yet, lets not get off on the wrong foot already 

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Have you tweaked how other teams are unable to unsettle your players?

Specifically, I'm talking about e.g. PSG, Man. City, Chelsea and all the other top clubs constantly expressing interest in my first team/key players who then quickly become unsettled and want to join the other club. The thing is I'm managing Real Madrid and the club is #1 in club ratings. I'm winning everything so I don't understand how or why my players constantly want to leave. When a player wants to leave for a new challenge it's fine, but a key player wanting to leave just because another top club keeps saying it's interested is a bit baffling.

Edited by Troels Jensen
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4 hours ago, akm.91 said:

There won’t be any bigger announcements. They’ve announced the main new features and they are crap. 

FM 2019.5 out in November...buy it! 

Just because you don’t like the new features, doesn’t mean they are crap for everyone, it’s comment that doesn’t benefit anyone and just causes unnecessary arguments.

The new features and extra bits Miles is announcing is what a lot of people have been asking for.

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4 hours ago, rdbayly said:

I notice from screenshots so far that the TC has remained largely unchanged. I don't have a problem with this, providing the ME has been improved so that a) a broader range of distinctive play-styles are achievable, and b) players actually carry out your instructions. The most important areas to address are:

  • Pressing - This needs a major overhaul to bring it into line with how teams press in reality. It needs to be much more coordinated with an actual strategy underpinning it (i.e triggers, cutting off passing lanes and what to do if the initial press is beaten). We still have a headless chicken approach with multiple players closing down on identical planes / angles. Quality AI teams also need to be much more effective at beating a press, especially if they possess technically sound defenders. It is also far too easy to execute a high LOE + counter-press strategy; especially when you don't have players with the required attributes.
     
  • Movement - Attacking movement off the ball in the final third remains inadequate. Lateral movement, quick one-twos, layoffs and general forward passes were severely inhibited this year (inflating passes to the flanks which leads me to my next point).
     
  • Crossing - One of the very worst aspects of FM19. Wingers and full-backs with clear opportunities to cross tend to dribble towards defenders, who block the attempt (driving up set piece numbers to unrealistic levels).
     
  • AI Mentality - It's been talked to death, but they are simply too negative, deep and narrow. Decent sides will frequently stick 11 men behind the ball for the entire match; even when 'chasing' a single goal deficit late on. Good sides do not commit enough players in attacking transitions, and there are quite clearly not enough players assigned an attack duty. The end result means any clearance comes straight back with interest (resulting in 90 minutes of camping boredom).
     
  • Bizarre heading - The propensity of defenders heading the ball into key danger areas, when if left, would simply go harmlessly out of play, needs to be radically turned down.

Even if just the above were addressed, it would make the game more fun and challenging.

Yes. It's inevitable that most people on here are going to be more ME focussed and thus feature-fatigued than the average player. Result being that the annoucements so far just annoy a lot of folks in light of things like the abv...

Edited by chuckles1234
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14 minutes ago, chuckles1234 said:

Yes. It's inevitable that most people on here are going to be more ME focussed and thus feature-fatigued than the average player. Result being that the annoucements so far just annoy a lot of folks in light of things like the abv...

I’d counter this by saying that those will know (and should know being forum regulars) that SI don’t talk about the me till a fair bit closer to release when they put out videos, and don’t tend to make as big a deal as they see improving the ME as something they always do (I’d argue that they sell themselves short a little bit here by not doing so, as not many actually understand the scope and complexity). So getting annoyed about other features seems a bit silly, one doesn’t preclude the other. 

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hace 12 horas, akm.91 dijo:

There won’t be any bigger announcements. They’ve announced the main new features and they are crap. 

FM 2019.5 out in November...buy it! 

Yes, I am going to buy it, because I really like the news that they are presenting.

In addition it has been said many times that SI has a team dedicated exclusively to the improvement of ME, so I am sure that they are working on it to improve it.

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Desperate to see the DOF enhanced so he can become a worthwhile member of staff. In my current save at FC Kobenhaven where I'm looking to develop players my guy just constantly recommends ageing pro's on salaries way higher than our wage structure. We must either be able to liaise with this guy or the club must impose more realistic search criteria upon him, or a combination of both. 

Edited by janrzm
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Decent additions which improve the quality of life.

1. Still waiting/hoping for changes to the training system, as I belive it needs to be streamlined quite a bit.

2. For the love of God, what is with this purple / pink trend ? It looks catchy and nice, but after an hour it really takes a toll on my eyes. The skinning community will take care of this really quick, but still ...

3. Match Engine ... yes ... the big elephant :) If they sort this out, it will be massive. I basically skipped FM19 entirely (only played it for about 100 hours) because the non sense going on the pitch.

 

A revised ME + the features / additions they announced and a streamlined training system will be enough for me personally to get into FM20. If there is even more coming out, perfect.

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On 22/09/2019 at 11:22, rdbayly said:

I notice from screenshots so far that the TC has remained largely unchanged. I don't have a problem with this, providing the ME has been improved so that a) a broader range of distinctive play-styles are achievable, and b) players actually carry out your instructions. The most important areas to address are:

  • Pressing - This needs a major overhaul to bring it into line with how teams press in reality. It needs to be much more coordinated with an actual strategy underpinning it (i.e triggers, cutting off passing lanes and what to do if the initial press is beaten). We still have a headless chicken approach with multiple players closing down on identical planes / angles. Quality AI teams also need to be much more effective at beating a press, especially if they possess technically sound defenders. It is also far too easy to execute a high LOE + counter-press strategy; especially when you don't have players with the required attributes.
     
  • Movement - Attacking movement off the ball in the final third remains inadequate. Lateral movement, quick one-twos, layoffs and general forward passes were severely inhibited this year (inflating passes to the flanks which leads me to my next point).
     
  • Crossing - One of the very worst aspects of FM19. Wingers and full-backs with clear opportunities to cross tend to dribble towards defenders, who block the attempt (driving up set piece numbers to unrealistic levels).
     
  • AI Mentality - It's been talked to death, but they are simply too negative, deep and narrow. Decent sides will frequently stick 11 men behind the ball for the entire match; even when 'chasing' a single goal deficit late on. Good sides do not commit enough players in attacking transitions, and there are quite clearly not enough players assigned an attack duty. The end result means any clearance comes straight back with interest (resulting in 90 minutes of camping boredom).
     
  • Bizarre heading - The propensity of defenders heading the ball into key danger areas, when if left, would simply go harmlessly out of play, needs to be radically turned down.

Even if just the above were addressed, it would make the game more fun and challenging.

Totally agree with this post, at this point I'd buy the game even if it had no new features but a proper ME. FM18 made me pull my hairs out sometimes, but FM19 was completely hopeless. I understood they introduced tactical features that needed time to be fixed but they have no excuse anymore in FM20.

Edited by Armistice
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On 21/09/2019 at 12:18, Stevicus said:

That second one isn't a feature is it? :D that's an updated rule change surely 

It's something that has to be logged in our database, coded by a developer (which takes development time), then tested by our internal QA team (which takes more development time).

It's all part of making the game as realistic to real life as possible. For instance we added VAR into the game - ostensibly that's just a rule change going by what you've said above, but it's still one that requires a hell of a lot of work! :brock: 

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6 hours ago, Defensive said:

So you actually didnt play it but still use every thread to tell anyone how bad it was? How do you know then?

No buddy, I have said in the same post you are quoting that I have played the game for around 100 hours, so I do know what I am talking about (or at least I think i do after 12+ years of FM). I do not use very thread to say that it's bad, although it is my opinion and I am entitled to one as long as I support it with facts. I used FM19 as a "ground zero" in order to set my expectations for this year's edition. Do I think FM20 is going to be better ? Yes, of course, because quite simply i cannot imagine a worse FM than 19. I love this game and it's a big part of my life, so take this for what it is, but I am not going to say "yes sir" when a game is bad.

When you decide if a product is good or bad you have to compare it to something, hence why I brought up previous editions.

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For as Long as the feature isn't announced that one midfielder role in the centre would be totally hardcoded to a "Position Holding" one (in particular in top heavy formations in which the CMs are the "deepest" guys on the pitch), and similar, I'm going to 100% predict a lot of complaints About "too many longshots" (and possibly too many Corners/set pieces + lack of central play). :D And that regardless of how often the may AI park the bus, their house and the SI Towers in front of their Goal. And how much attacking/Forward movement may have improved. Speaking about the AI, the same may on the occasion apply for it as well, only that it naturally won't complain. :D 

Edited by Svenc
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Code of Conduct is nice but I'm hoping that FM2020 will also make it easier to track those offences. I know we can make notes when players misbehave but it would be much easier to get aome kind of message with his previous offences.

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Will i finally stop seeing my 3rd GK complain he didn't played enough games? Hopefully.

I just hope nothing goes wrong with this new "playing time" thing, i would hate to sign an average 16 years old for my U18 from a lower division side requesting first team play time in a couple of years.

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