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About Svenc

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    "At the end of the day, all we can do as humans is create a tactic which dominates possession, creates clear cut chances and gets shots on target." -- perceived football wisdoms of an eternally to be frustrated Football Manager.

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    Dishonored II

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  1. Not sure About it for the following reasons: - Football is an inherently low scoring game for a reason, naturally. Plus, space on an actual modern Football pitch is a hard thing to come by. FM tends to have spaces that would never exist on a real Football pitch -- however, the attacking Phase oft relies on those spaces, or you wouldn't see that much goals at all. Some of them happen during the open Play Phase, others during set piece defending - The tweaks made in between Prior Releases were a direct result of SI trying to fix those gaps (flanks as to FM 16 corrected by wide midfielders barely defending centrally anymore, etc.). - Therefore, in between the last couple Releases SI spendn a significant amount of time Fixing (and balancing) defensive issues in their own engine. However, for as Long as the game doesn't simulate proper "zonal" defending, it's a bit like the fisherman who Patches his boat over and over rather than buying a new one -- only to find that when the patch is applied, the water tends to leak someplace else. The fix applied to the flanks naturally opened up cans of space in the centre of the pitch, etc. There's more Long-term ones, as recorded by MBarbaric here for FM18. - Historically, there's actually more. Prior to ca. Fm 12ish, it didn't even much matter anything, as space used to be there no matter what (due to an "issue" with off the ball movement that meant Forwards could run through markers off the ball as if they didn't exist). Players however still aren't a "physical presence" proper as such to do this day _ It's Always going to be a balancing act. But until the game has figured out the defending part first, the attacking part a) doesN't actually Need to be "fully" realistic to challenge defenses and b) SI don't actually Need to simulate "fully realistic" attacking for there to be any Goals. Plus c) historically they spend much ressources fixing the inherently defensive leaks to their own engine. Naturally, some tactical combinations still possible in the UI cause there to be movements on the pitch that barely ever hapens on a real Football pitch for Long anyhow… which Impacts AI vs AI matches too and may further make balancing things a tad difficult. Some of the complaints attributed to FM 19 come about by that the AI employs too rigidly defensive tactics anyhow likely. Aside of tweaking the attacking movement, SI should look at doing an internal test where they ship a DB to their testers that tricks AI into playing inherently more balanced and attacking tactics. Would be interesting anyhow.
  2. And the "FM 17 fix" for that, e.g. wide midfielders sitting out wide on defending, caused third division sides to be all over first division ones when they had a man Advantage in the centre of the park (and knap's, TFFs et all multitudes Keep it central, stupid, exploits of that to turn into Comedy Gold whenever an AI happend to sit Deep and plug the middle of the pitch) . Not sayingn that any of this may repeat, mind. For my tastes, there's too much talk About perceived weaknesses of the attacking Phase and movement in General. That is a natural bias naturally, as similar to football Viewers, FMers tend to prefer the spectacle. Whilst both attackind/defending phases need to be balanced off one another -- the key to developing the most robust ME ever imo is FM simulating zonal defending "proper" first, that is modeling the defending as "realistic" as possible first. This means including the more physical aspects of defending better with an actual collision between Players/bodies. But also teams defending as Units ever more intelligently. Likely easier posted than put into action, no less as the game still also caters to really really ancient PCs, which means there's likely a finite headroom as to actual calculations. Which also likely won't last forever.
  3. The "Tactical" Problems as of the actual difficulty are that, to simplify, the AI traditionally doesn't take a whole lot of context into account. .[That as is, aside of it ignoring "Team Sports common sense" imo on the Occasion...] - To simplify, a) either AI starts a match, any match of the Season, with more expansive or defensive Football. This depends on the Opposition and to an extent, its attributes - and b) switches Things around depending on where the match is headed, e.g. current scorelines There's more, but what's actually going specifically on in any match -- a struggle to win the ball back, etc. that's never much been on the AI's Radar, or only to very limited extents. Thus I'm not surprised that some find it easier to dismantle big Teams on the attack than to ship loads of Goals past anybody else shutting up shop. Here's why. - the most extremely defensive tactics have had loads of Players on a defend / hold positioin / barely cross the half way line duty for like years. They are used very readily. They are so focused on keepingn Things tight / making it harder to score for the Opposition that they basically translate to : "We're not much even trying. We simply want to frustrate". FM 19 seems to have tightened up defending in general quite a bit in the overall balance in General... - as the AI lack may lack superior match context (see above), it however traditionally won't ever much "notice" when it's getting "abused" for the vice versa, which is an overly aggressive Approach. Think Guardiola never actually reacting to when he's exposed over and over and over again. In fact, in-game, he may actually go even more aggressive upon conceding each Goal, as he's "Chasing an Opposition lead from Opposition AI Guardiola "Thinks" he SHOULD DAMN BEAT" (lack of superior match context)
  4. The main issue I have with the Notion that starting lower down vs. higher up was a Level of difficulty (which SI have always promoted also, btw) is that: That's not changing any difficulty. It's just stretching the save as you're dealing with the same AI wherever you go. Basically, once you had "mastered" the game, it's just an exercise in patience. Kind of like an MMORPG grind, where you are continously rewarded just for mashing the Buttons sticking around. Sure, a better Player with a bigger Edge over the AI will raise through the Tiers quicker on average -- and may also challenge for the titles quicker. However, if given enough grind time, you'd be just getting there. Plus naturally, if managing clubs with big Money was this easy (others tend to have loads of Money too), why is it that only the elite typically apply (and seldom last for centuries)? However, I don't think anybody is ever fundamentally going to change SI's mind. It's worked out for them, after all -- and dedicated FM communities such as these represent but a fraction of FM's average/actual player base anyway. Whether they deem the game too hard, too easy or too purple.
  5. One Needs to look at all Matches first to determeine how "bad" Things are. If you look at "some" of them, you will find this. Given that Porto in real Football are playing against defensive Opposition a bit, how would they else ever drop Points. https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1104285/MatchReport/Portugal-Liga-NOS-2016-2017-FC-Porto-Vitoria-de-Setubal https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1104192/MatchReport/Portugal-Liga-NOS-2016-2017-Pacos-de-Ferreira-FC-Porto https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1104147/MatchReport/Portugal-Liga-NOS-2016-2017-Vitoria-de-Setubal-FC-Porto It's easy to just "cherry pick" -- to work out your actual conversion you can look into the team reports under stats. How does the Shot conversion compare to Opposition. The forward profiles have shot conversion numbers too. On some days, the forwards don#t seem to hit a cows arse. Point Drops despite actually "Domination" are meant to be a part of this game. Unfortunately, AI tends to Play very defensive to the Point that they don't even much try to attack for the 90 minutes, so on FM's statistical and Feedback in General, you "will dominate" every game every week. E.g. have x moar shots every single week. Unfortunately though, having x more shots isN't at all dominating Opposition even in real Football and even then Points are being dropped. That said, this tactic Looks like it's trying to go possession based, but it's also pushing loads of Players Forward where eventually the defensive Teams will camp, which may contribute to Things a bit. Against Nacional you had a whopping 26! Corners. Was there any football played in that match? Usually most shots (oft headers unde rpressure and/or stuff in crowded spaces in generally ) after Corners are relatively easilyish saved or blocked. Just as an ado, as above the tactical advice, this is useful to consider.
  6. The game has Always kinda assumed you don't. You are ought to pick up some basics via playing, kinda. Hence, why fairly "common sense" is already being rewarded rather than anything "indepth". To quote a former mod: The "you'll win everything" part may be a bit exaggerating of course. However, anything typically discussed in the tactical community is just another Bonus over the AI. Take some of the more recent "help" threads. They aren't actually About any Player underperforming. They are doing incredibly well (better than the AI would do with their Teams for the most part). They're About specific issues, such as a striker not being enough involved -- or About creating more open Play chances against the manyful AI who simply sit deep and shut up shop from start to finish. Now granted, you can do stuff that really really harms. I'd personally prefer the game would shift away from rewarding common sense and go away from such possibly "nonsensically/harmful" Micro tweaking, and to making sensible "Football decisions". For BOTH FM's Artificial Intelligence as well as the human Player/s. In the long run, anyway.
  7. Thanks! That's fascinating and currently somewhat to be expected what with the higher success rates of both. On some prior Releases, FM18 excluded, you COULD average a crazy amount of "screamers" and enjoy Fantasy success ratios. HOwever, it took heavy data Edits (every Player Long shots etc. 20) plus a Team encouraged to fire it. Traditionally, all hugely defensive AI works out it a set piece or a Long shot Situation most of the time. So it follows that if the General success Ratio of each is higher, you may still concede a couple goals… In General seen over the entire season, you should Benefit more of those though. Against Teams Camping, most of the Play happens in their half. Which means more set pieces and (Long) shot opportunities for your Team. As you say, in the current Situation you may work on defending Long shots, but don't Need to bother either way as the AI is this negative it doesn't even much aim for a win anymore most of the time. More often than not, it simply tries to avoid gettingn trashed. The massive amounts of AI negativity is totally an issue.
  8. A couple of Options. 1) Real world tactical "Knowledge" doesn't translate as well over into the game as SI intend it to (totally possible) 2) Translating real world tactical "Knowledge" into the game's UI isn't as easy as SI intend it to (totally Possible) 3) The game is also meant to be about player Quality, and with the exception of Köln, and perhaps Hamburg, the 2nd Bundesliga should be one of more most balanced leagues in the game, so in particular over but a couple weeks of a Season / or an indindiual Season in General, much goes. AI managed Hamburg aren't goingn to win the league in every save also, likewise, on any one run, AI managed St. Pauli may struggle far deeper. Seeing one of the St. Pauli's guys Setups, which visibly does the same/similar things that costs the AI Points ever since I dunno at least FM 16, it may be a mix of those…. HOwever, since the tacitcal nerd also doesn't object l but argues he should Train his Forwards to work on their finishing, it's hard to tell. Tbf they're on key highlights and mostly on cams that are useless for anything much tactical. Btw, I'm meanwhile of the opinion that such an similar shouldn't be at all possible to put into the UI if the game were to simulate semi/Professional Management, imo. Actually, I'd overhaul the entire tactical experience into one that is less about possibly harmful and contradicting Micro tweaks, into one of sensible "holistical" decisions to be taken at hopefully the Right time... E.g. less tweaking of individual Player roles so that they all sit in the right space at the right time, and more generally Football decisioins. The tactical style Presets may be a starting point into such developments. It would Benefit both AI and that St. Pauli Player. On the flipside, it may generally big time level the playing fields. I'd be really interested into a let's Play of Escher alone, where he sits down, and starts playing a bit more deeply, focused on his own Team rather than "rushing" through Things in a "hot seat" multiplayer session.
  9. Maybe it's time to revert the game's player interaction/motivation/ management module to the state of pre FM14/15ish. Manager applies as a "former Sunday league" Player at Camp Nou. His points allocated to discipline / generally man management in the creation of his avatar are basically zero. Immediatley puts Iniesta and Xavi in the reserves. Then ships Messi to Real Madrid. Nobody ever makes a fuss About this. Not the fans. Not the board. Nor the press. Nor the Players themselves who would be content with pretty much anything, just so long as they are playing some football. And that's genuinelly not kidding. All possible current and future issues fixed in an instant! #hardmanmanagexit
  10. How many goals do you concede in the BL, out of interest? Reminds me of Long-term saves FM 15 in particular. First Season as THE top dogs, even the AI managed Bayern Munich went with less than 10 Goals / 34 match days conceded on the occasion. They just never faced a challenge as like 90% of Opposition was Content with a draw/not getting trashed. Of Course, counter attacks on that Version were inherently somewhat toothless, and Teams sitting Deep also found it hard to get back out of their half a bit (partly ME inherent), contributing to this. As you say, it's a statistical probability. I tried to go with conceding 0 Goals on that release. Like every time when going up on the score sheet, playing endless keepball. Oft easy to do, FM 19 included, like this -- in particular if the Opposition doesn't push much up anyways. But at one Point, i would concede a goal. Typically, form the corner/set piece. For as Long as you don't get oppositioin down to Zero shots, you will concede a Goal -- and then there's also the likelyhood of own Goals, Bugs, and individual Errors in General. By FM16, that very same AI lost up to 8 Matches with Bayern first Season -- with one of the then most dominant Squads in the game. [Which is/was partly connected to that the AI never, ever gets the message if it's spanked for its overly aggressive approaches to begin with in a specific match -- basically most AI do is to react to scorlines, and the very top of the Reputation chain may expect no less than a Sound win. What an Opposition, other AI included, is actually doing -- it's not on their radar much]. SI should either way seriously consider this, as simply altering the AI can Change the game experience significantly -- even without touching the ME at all (not suggesting that it shouldn't be touched, mind). The most defensive Ai approaches, with basically the entire backline plus at least a CM on defend Duty, have never been particularly realistic to begin with. Certainly not when applies for prolonged minutes of a competitive match between competitive Teams (which is, Teams playing in the same league/Tier).
  11. Revenue / commercial viability. I personally switched over to FM from simpler "buy players and win stuff" games (the majority of management games ever) because of the (comparably) added challenge a decade back. This still continues, whenever I still play (it's an on/off thing). However, whilst I personally applauded my first ever FM for making me slump to mid-table one early mid-season with Bayern Munich, just like van Gaal back then -- and that without doing anything "obvioiusly" stupid (to my eyes back then anyways) -- I also quickly discovered that for the majority of FM players the game seems to be about something else. Namely, much the same over the top power Winning fantasies inherent to any other old management game I quit. Actually, in lots of cases it was even more extreme ones, as on On The Ball on Amiga you couldn't ever consistently every Season outperform all squad and player ability, but actually had to "master" the game's Transfer markets etc. first (however simple they were). Mind, that's all viable preferences. Not my personal one though. Btw, I think the game could provide an added challenge in the way that improved AI would be leveled out by optional assistants. Assistants are AI just as well. They would improve alongside to all AI. More importantly, they are a significant part of real football. They advice and even take over huge parts of the Job, depending on the manager. That's how I'd do it. The Question is, whether SI are and the majority of their players. I have my doubts though… Things could be hella "worse" though, depending where your preferences are: Sega have just announced that the Sequel to the brilliantly flawed Alien:Isolation will be a bloody mobile game. The much talked about "frustration" Levels inherent to the original apparently didn't draw big enough a crowd to so risk a fully-fledged sequel; reportedly, the core Team at SI sister Studio Creative Assembly responsible for Alien have left the studio ages ago already. This is the age of instant gratification on any media. Game Over man, game over. Yes and evidently more so. Any edge is on the human player and always will be. Perception's that the ME may act as a "rubber band" may be amongst the reasons why SI may be shy to improve said AI too much. That means players feel the game wouldn't tread them fairly, and who would like that and keep buying? Often times such perceptions are even paradoxical, such when the user ridiculously outperforms what any AI would do with the same team/squad. For instance, take the much raged About "parking bus AI" (any release since forever). At the current Levels, AI "parks the bus" in fairly generic ways. It keeps Things compact in Possession and without. It keeps loads of Players behind the ball. It doesN't even much try anything but to frustrate their Opposition. On the Occasion it may still "luck" out and score a Goal/s (though usually AI Teams that do so most of the season have a miserably shot conversion in their Team Reports of ~5% if you take a look). Some AI defend off formations that plug the central of the pitch better. Some AI defend off formations that plug the flanks better. This isN't an "intelligent" decision. This is all based on the prefered formations they have edited in the db. What do you think were to happen if it would specifically plug the Zones it's being attacked through? Similar goes for attempts at "staging" Comebacks. AI may not Always sit there on a loss and do Nothing. However, the way it's staging Things is comparably "vanilla".
  12. Svenc

    This is a joke....

    I'm tempted to start a save, enter TWO human Managers, let them have a couple friendlies against another and set both up to Play more proactive attacking Football for the 90 minutes. Then note down how many attempts are from open positional Play or set piece Play. Mind, something like this has been impossible on FM before already -- however, set piece conversion tended to be quite some lower (where it arguably should be). Impossible as in: One Team Camping in ist half, and yet the Opposition actually creating almost every shot from open Play, as opposed to from a set piece. Naturally, that is a matter of Definition, at least to a Degree. At which Point does a shot stop being from set piece Play? Still... https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190196/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Burnley
  13. ^ Good post. Still AI won't be ever programmed to be "too competitive"; as that would still frustrate a lot of users. Actually, this is a real concern in games development, and when the devs were still around, they were frustrated by this likewise. In tendency, the worse a Player performs, the more the game tends to be "blamed". Naturally, everybody has a tipping Point. This is tin-foil hat time for me but there are a couple of AI tactical decisions I consider a Downgrade from FM 2013 (where they were fixed and classed as a bug from <= FM 2012)… And honestly, SI have been receiving Feedback as of their AI for a very Long time from their users (and likely even mods). https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/116071/Analysis_Game_AI__Our_Cheatin_Hearts.php It's odd though. Precisely though because so many Players absoluelty "Trash" the game, every little time they don't and drop the odd point, they perceive the AI of "cheating". When it's simply the AI the only Entity in the game traditionally ever playing (extremely) defensive Football, and on the Occasion, taking the Points. You can't ever take Points in Matches that "statistically" appear one-sided (on FM'S stats Level anyways, ahem), if you doN't ever set out to do so... That FM's AI does such far too readily, even when Managing the bigger dogs, is another story, naturally...
  14. This all will come down to whether you find the game too easy/too hard, for which there will be very different benchmarks, which is viable. There's lots of players for instance that in whichever way outperform the AI by ridiculous margins, and seek their "challenge" in fantasies such as dafuge's in the challenge forums. But as the Topic of AI has been touched -- quite a lot of players outperform the AI without realizing in generally, and tactically, it typically doesn't take any much tactical advice, as the AI oft ignores "common sense", let alone replicating "top class Football Management" on any much level. The benchmark as to the AI is and has Always been here how the AI does with a club and its players, and how do you do. Btw, I generelly would prefer the game to shift away tactically from rewarding "common sense" -- as the UI for the AI as well quite frankly allows loads of bollocks a sane manager may never do. This hurts AI and the Players alike. And a "realistic" way to balance difficulty here was introducing intelligent assistants, which would need improved AI anyways. Tons of Reports where assistants even co-developed a club's playing style, etc. That said, the game is advertised as an experience where you "win anything with any club in the world" to generally Football fans. And that's what it's Always been. Anything deeper is just a Bonus over the AI, and likely Always will remain.
  15. Most shots from (indirect) free kicks (cross into the box), are Headers, which are harder than shots, so that makes sense. You see, SI's Definition is a wholly semantical one (even if they don't give it away anywhere). It doesn't actually have anything to do much with the actual "probability" calculated if a shot is a Goal or isn't. As such, you've been best to ignore it outright from the go (no less as it lumps all Kinds of stuff together, so the gap is Ultra wide --- from a Penalty, which should be a roughly 75% Chance to the ~20% Chance types). There's Always been multiple instances where an evidently much easier converted Chance is rarely registered as a CCC, and vice versa. Examples being bonafide cut backs from wide positions already taking the keeper half out of the Picture as the shot does and has to cause the ball to change direction in an instant... etc. As SI generally seem to take real life football Analysis and studies into account, a far better way has always been to develop a subjective eye and to look at how chance qualities are assessed in real life football Analysis. Typically any possible current short-term issue (ranged attempts being overly successful etc,) won't survive in the long run. That said, over individual matches, (almost) anything goes anyway, and should. Any kind of data is far more telling in the longer term, and will remain so for as Long as competitive Football tends to be an Ultra low scoring Sports (and not for the lack of attempts). Real life Analysis suggests that even top Teams drop Points in sequence despite having the better chances consistently on many an Occasion -- the more prominent example in recent years being Dortmund's crazy drop to 18th place in the Point tables in Klopp's last Season come February 2014 -- a Season and a half after they had almost won the CL. Perhaps fortunately, the game doesn't quite simulate any of this.