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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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To add, as seen in the stats, his shots have been going down and I haven't adjusted anything tactically. So maybe it's a morale or tactical familiarity issue that is causing them to shoot more? Anyways, I'm not bothered at all with 5 shots from good angles from a wingback set on attack.

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It would be good if any mods or even developers can give a quick update on this please. I seen someone ask Miles the other day on Twitter who was a bit dismissive of this crossing issue.

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26 minutes ago, rain94 said:

I also have no issues with the Wingbacks shooting into the side netting or at sharp angles. Here is my right back and his PPM's.  I play him as WB-Attack and I play at-most with a positive mentality, only increasing it to attack and very attacking if I'm behind and the match is in the latter stages. I also overlap rightside. I very rarely see him or the left back for that matter shoot. Eli had 5 shots (2 OT) in the first game, 3 shots (3 OT) in the second game, and 3 shots in the 5th game. In the other games he hasn't shot at all.  Here is a screenshot of the game when he had 5 shots.    

image.png

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image.png

do u only play key highlights?

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Just now, robinthebest said:

do u only play key highlights?

No, extensive. But why does that matter? I've shown the analysis and stats.

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5 minutes ago, Dixie93 said:

It would be good if any mods or even developers can give a quick update on this please. I seen someone ask Miles the other day on Twitter who was a bit dismissive of this crossing issue.

And do they need more pkm's of any of the issues being reported on this thread - as I'm happy to do this, but obviously if they have enough won't worry about it!

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53 minutes ago, yandex said:

I'm done for now. I got to the PL with Blackburn in two seasons, finished 12th and then just that F it. The ME just has some very annoying and unrealistic patterns. Hoping for a fix, but definitely feel completely over the game already, after playing intensely for a weekend. There were a couple of enjoyable moments, but they were incredibly short-lived and instantly swapped for more hair-pulling frustration

im going back to FM 19, never had such bad experience since started playing from FM 07/08

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7 minutes ago, Dixie93 said:

It would be good if any mods or even developers can give a quick update on this please. I seen someone ask Miles the other day on Twitter who was a bit dismissive of this crossing issue.

 

Just now, duesouth said:

And do they need more pkm's of any of the issues being reported on this thread - as I'm happy to do this, but obviously if they have enough won't worry about it!

Tbf, its been repeated in this thread several times, but people are so intent in having back and forths its been drowned out. They're looking into various aspects for improvement, including but not limited to decision making and crossing, and when they have more news we'll know. PKMs are always welcome unless otherwise stated

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

PKMs are always welcome unless otherwise stated

And so far the only place they've confirmed they have enough, is with players hitting the side netting from tight angles.

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Thanks, @themadsheep2001 and @HUNT3R - I started a new save yesterday, will try a basic 4-4-2 tonight and pkm anything outside of the side netting issue that I spot ME wise.

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1 minute ago, duesouth said:

Thanks, @themadsheep2001 and @HUNT3R - I started a new save yesterday, will try a basic 4-4-2 tonight and pkm anything outside of the side netting issue that I spot ME wise.

May I recommend focusing on things like passes not being given perhaps where they should, especially through the middle. Also off the ball runs that should or shouldn't be made. This kind of thing is very subjective, so the more varied examples the better.

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

May I recommend focusing on things like passes not being given perhaps where they should, especially through the middle. Also off the ball runs that should or shouldn't be made. This kind of thing is very subjective, so the more varied examples the better.

Will do!

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1 hour ago, yandex said:

Tone down the amount of chances created perhaps? Make 1 on 1s less frequent, yet more successful. If 1v1s with the keeper were converted at a realistic rate in game, every game would finish 6-6. 

 

Not the Kind of ones that are more frequent as to FM, which is part of the issue and treading them all equal distracts from that --- wide Players Breaking behind the lines and then Approaching/blasting it from reasonably difficult angles quite oftenly. Plus, for consistently 6-6- scorelines, you'd Need like an average of a dozen+ one on ones at least, as the average is a 1 in 3  Chance. Anything else is pure Fifa Oneway Soccer Arcade Fantasy (and bad TV commentary).

If strikers are actually through on Goal, which you can force by making all of the Players man mark the Opposition cbs, the scorelines is regularly in the double Digit range with up to ~30+ Goals scored. And the conversion up to 50%ish+.

Edited by Svenc

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40 minutos atrás, Mikke disse:

If the ME fix doesn't come until late December, then this will be the last CM/FM game since 1994 that I'll buy when it's released. No point paying full price if the game isn't playable before Christmas...

Thanks for this comment. I share the same idea

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A hotfix for the infamous DXGI crashes that are making the game unplayable for me (and many others) since beta would be nice though. Because I'm sure the 50 euros I paid are working perfectly.

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Can we please get a option to disable this message? It's useless and annoying. This stuff is only for new players. I don't want my ass manager telling me what squad to use prior every game, doesn't even happen irl.

7d521553dc33d70553d4d8bc52667fcc.png

3d5d093ff8b6e1d1c2d90abf3b8112a1.png

Edited by Sanel

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Just now, Sanel said:

Can we please get a option to disable this message? It's useless and annoying. This stuff is only for new players. I don't want my ass manager telling me what squad to use prior every game, doesn't even happen irl.

7d521553dc33d70553d4d8bc52667fcc.png

 

more than useless i think it needs tweaks, for example if am playing a friendly after an official game, maybe i need to play a rotated squad and not the best team available, maybe add it as another button "tactics" "use suggested squad" "ask for rotated squad"

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13 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Can we please get a option to disable this message? It's useless and annoying. This stuff is only for new players. I don't want my ass manager telling me what squad to use prior every game, doesn't even happen irl.

7d521553dc33d70553d4d8bc52667fcc.png

3d5d093ff8b6e1d1c2d90abf3b8112a1.png

I use it every week as my assman generally picks the side I'd ha e played anyway. Then swap the 1 or 2 changes I might want manually. 

And I've owned every FM since it's release in 1992.

But an option to disable it would always be welcome. 

Edited by kiwityke1983

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2 hours ago, Mikke said:

If the ME fix doesn't come until late December, then this will be the last CM/FM game since 1994 that I'll buy when it's released. No point paying full price if the game isn't playable before Christmas...

I will be very surprise if they put an ME update before late December  

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28 minutes ago, rain94 said:

I am overcome by the feeling of dread whenever this screen pops up every week. I want to select my players for the B team but the interface is so cumbersome. I click the drop down box to select a player and then the window popup keeps closing and I have to click on it again to assign the next player. It's so dreadful that I just say F-it, not going to be bothered with it when I know I need to select them for the B/U19 teams. Anyone feel the same? The previous interface in FM19 was perfect.

image.png

I have to agree there; as far as this feature goes, the interface on FM19 was much cleaner and it was much simpler to set your first-team players to play in reserve/youth matches. As you've pointed out, this screen on FM20 is a mess, and the pitch being so large that you have to scroll down does nothing for me. Because of that, I've subconsciously kept skipping over these inbox articles time and time again until I realised in mid-September that many of my first-teamers were severely lacking in match sharpness.

In all honesty, FM20 kinda feels like FM18 to me, in that there've been some strange UI changes that make navigating some of my most-used screens more cumbersome than on the previous game. I've already written about my gripes with the match engine from playing the demo, but this UI is also putting me off buying the full game. I'm leaning more and more towards taking a year out from FM and coming back for FM21.

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4 hours ago, herne79 said:

Genuine question for you and others who see similar issues.  With regards to fullbacks / wingbacks demonstrating this behaviour, what role/duty do you give them; what Team Mentality do you select; what Traits do the players you use in this position have; and (importantly) why do you choose those settings?

The reason I ask is my Wingbacks rarely (if ever) demonstrate this issue, but I tend to give my Wingbacks a Defend duty especially if I use an aggressive mentality and a player with the Trait to get forward whenever possible.  My Wingbacks still attack, they overlap my wide players ahead, they just pick and choose when to do it and are much more effective in defence.  I normally see around 15-20 crosses per match (in total from all my players) and shots at goal from my wingbacks are rare than hens teeth.

If you use a similar set up then that's probably something for the Bugs forum.  But if your set up is more aggressive, why do you feel the need to be more aggressive?  Perhaps that's what the tactical descriptions are leading you to believe you need?  There's a combination of factors at play here and it's that combination which can be very important and not always obvious.

Everybody should follow this advice ...

It changed a lot for me in my tactics.

My wingbacks now are in "Defend" Mentality and I still have "Overlap left" and "Overlap Right" in position, My Advance Playmaker plays now some very good killer balls to my striker rather than play to the wingbacks...

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6 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Have a look at his touches in the analysis

According to this https://www.premierleague.com/players/3960/player/overview he's had 395 touches over 12 games, assuming he's played every minute of every game that's a shade under an average of 33 touches a game

For reference, TAA & Robertson are top of the list with 1,320 & 1,239 respectively  

 

I made a comparison with FM17 and strikers received 35ish passes per game. That’s double of the passes my striker received in his best game :lol:

Btw touches in FM are misleading, if a striker closes down the ball carrier and wins the ball, it counts as a touch. Anyway, looked through the games like you asked and while the touches numbers are indeed elevated, the striker still has the least touches in the team.

Edited by Armistice

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4 hours ago, herne79 said:

The reason I ask is my Wingbacks rarely (if ever) demonstrate this issue, but I tend to give my Wingbacks a Defend duty especially if I use an aggressive mentality and a player with the Trait to get forward whenever possible.  My Wingbacks still attack, they overlap my wide players ahead, they just pick and choose when to do it and are much more effective in defence. 

 

yes but it's prectically cheating and not how AI plays. how to achieve it with normal tactics or presets? 

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I'm enjoying the game a lot this year, but do you want to know what I'm not enjoying?

No? 

Well, I'm telling you anyway. 

I'm not enjoying managing at a lower level and teams expecting you to pay full wages for loan signings. All of them. I haven't been able to source a single loan where the parent club pays all the wages. This might be more realistic (no idea if it is), but it's hugely frustrating when you're on a shoestring budget. 

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The ingame FPS stutter bug is gone if I disable sound.

Edit: Penalties are still an issue. Just had 3 for me in a friendly. Next match, 2 more.

Edited by KyleHyde

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1 hour ago, Mitja said:

yes but it's prectically cheating and not how AI plays. how to achieve it with normal tactics or presets? 

The AI can absolutely give their wingbacks/fullbacks a defend duty if they so choose (and frequently do), but how is understanding how a combination of factors work together cheating?  A lot of the time I use hardly any (if not zero) team or player instructions, so what do you define as "normal" tactics?  Genuinely confused by this comment.

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Full backs having much less assists is actually realistic (though not depicted well in the match engine). The numbers are spot on, so I'd rather not have this go back to the FM19 style of 15+ assists.
Most assists IRL come from midfielders or inside forwards. Just like in game.

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Playing in the Vanarama North... admittedly not a hotbed of intricate football, however...

The amount of 1 on 1's I have seen missed is unbelievable - and almost every single one of them is created by a long ball over the top. I am yet to see a central midfielder slide a through ball to the striker. They seem to love looking directly at the wide open number 9, stopping, and then playing it square to the full back or winger.

Wingers and full backs not playing the ball across the box, but instead shooting into the side netting is one of the most infuriating nuances of a match engine I have come across. "shoot less often", "take fewer risks" do not have any impact on the decisions your wide players make. The amount of chances for a tap-in I've seen get wasted...

But hey, the social media screen seems to be working fine. Shame my wide players have the intelligence of a potato.

Shout-out to my number 10 who I haven't even bothered playing as they have been redundant for about two years now with central link-up play being nothing short of abysmal.

I'm 4th... 4 points off top expecting a top half finish... you would think I'd be jumping for joy. How disappointing.  

 

 

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9 minutes ago, herne79 said:

The AI can absolutely give their wingbacks/fullbacks a defend duty if they so choose (and frequently do), but how is understanding how a combination of factors work together cheating?  A lot of the time I use hardly any (if not zero) team or player instructions, so what do you define as "normal" tactics?  Genuinely confused by this comment.

because they shouldnt be doing that even if we give them the attack instruction?

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1 minute ago, herne79 said:

The AI can absolutely give their wingbacks/fullbacks a defend duty if they so choose (and frequently do), but how is understanding how a combination of factors work together cheating?  A lot of the time I use hardly any (if not zero) team or player instructions, so what do you define as "normal" tactics?  Genuinely confused by this comment.

there are rules AI follow, every mentality or tactical setup uses exact duty combination, you'll never see AI using defend duties FBs on balanced or higher mentalities. i'm sure you're awere of that. but i understand your point. should have used some different word than cheat maybe. 

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31 minutes ago, diLLa88 said:

Does the middle of the pitch even exist in a possession style tactic, or can they only pass to the wingbacks?

how wide do you play?

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Just now, Mitja said:

how wide do you play?

Wide or Extremely Wide.

Thing is, the opponent's defenders never ever cover the wings. So it stays congested in the middle and the Wingbacks always have acres of space.

Risky passes through middle are also never attempted, even if I see the movements from the strikers. It's always the same easy passes to the wingbacks

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8 minutes ago, diLLa88 said:

Wide or Extremely Wide.

Thing is, the opponent's defenders never ever cover the wings. So it stays congested in the middle and the Wingbacks always have acres of space.

Risky passes through middle are also never attempted, even if I see the movements from the strikers. It's always the same easy passes to the wingbacks

agreed. you need to play wider in possessional tactics. not too high tempo helps too. but personally i think narrow defending is just too narrow. with static forwards and lack of through/forward balls yes it seems you're right. SI are awere about it all (not sure if they agree about defensive width) so hopefully we'll see improvements with next patch.

Edited by Mitja

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2 minutes ago, robinthebest said:

because they shouldnt be doing that even if we give them the attack instruction?

It's not a question of the attack duty, what I'm mentioning here (and by no means saying it's the root cause) is a combination of factors.  For example - and at the extreme - use the Attacking mentality in combination with a wingback (attack) + a player with the gets forward often trait + the look for overlap TI and essentially you have a winger, not a fullback, who needs to be superman to carry out any kind of defensive duties.  Pretty much all he wants to do is attack.  I'm not saying that's what's happening in all instances, all I'm asking is how are people setting up and why they use certain combinations.

2 minutes ago, Mitja said:

there are rules AI follow, every mentality or tactical setup uses exact duty combination, you'll never see AI using defend duties FBs on balanced or higher mentalities. i'm sure you're awere of that. but i understand your point. should have used some different word than cheat maybe. 

Following through this thought process to it's (extreme) conclusion, we should be limited by the game to only be able to follow the rules which the AI follow.  I kind of get where you're coming from however there can be a fundamental lack of understanding in how combinations of instructions work and indeed how the game is actually designed to work.  That in and of itself can be another issue - we're thrown in at the deep end and given all the toys to play with without much in the way of self assembly instructions.  And - I don't mean this the wrong way - can result in comments such as the one above yours.  It's not about giving a wingback an attack instruction, it's about everything else which goes with that in combination.

We absolutely do have an unfair advantage over the AI because the AI - as good as it can sometimes be - simply isn't capable of thinking as we do (we'd never win a match if it were lol !).  But I'm not talking about any great complexity of tactical instructions, merely suggesting that things shouldn't be looked at in isolation from each other.

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I changed my wing backs to full backs support and added get forward. Essentially the same instructions as a wing back just without runs wide with the ball, I think that is what causes them to dribble to the byline and shooting into the side netting.

They seem to play how I want them to now, worth a try.

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On 20/11/2019 at 14:20, MatthewS17 said:

Why is the area to the left of Maguire and right of Tuanzebe being listed as areas of minor issues? Surely this isn't right. It's only prevalent when I select a Defensive tactic template. If I choose Control Possession or Tiki-Taka, etc. it's not there. And it effects my matches. Was not there before the full release else I would have noticed. And a tactic that was highly effective away, before release, now doesn't even create three chances a game, and gets done 3-0 by CSKA Moscow? 

 

Just seems the two go hand in hand. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.c5d9b34abff64f75f7d321805889524b.PNG

It is because your goalkeeper is on defend. Put him on support and he will also cover those areas.

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4 hours ago, Armistice said:

I made a comparison with FM17 and strikers received 35ish passes per game. That’s double of the passes my striker received in his best game :lol:

Hardly a surprise that the amount should be much higher in FM17 of all though. The centre mids were solely responsible for covering the entire centre of the pitch... the Opposition could ping the ball to the Forward at will, depending on which (Millwall are a 3rd division side here, West Brom EPL). Weirdest decision SI had made in the last couple years, in my opinion, as to defending. Was meant to fix the flanks being open on FM16, btw, but: Central Areas are the weakest on the pitch, be it in real Football, or on Sensible Soccer, as that's where Players have multiple Options to pass (rather than just infield, Forwards and backwards), as well as it being the shortest distance to the goal.

 

 

I think @MBarbaric may have a bit of a Point since then. Once Things were tightened up (again), the Forward's inherent movement coding had to follow alongside to that tightening up. And perhaps, is still trying to Play some catching up. The ever important balance between defense and attacking phases of Play. That said, somebody playing roles such as Poacher, in particular as a lone Forward, should arguably struggle here as those are roles not meant to be much involved. Same as anybody just shoving all Players Forward and so not Opening any central space. Maybe the compromise on the much beloved FM17 and side-stepping of the actual issue for a fully Season may be the reason why it's still trying to Play (some) catching up. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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4 hours ago, joemez1193 said:

Playing in the Vanarama North... admittedly not a hotbed of intricate football, however...

The amount of 1 on 1's I have seen missed is unbelievable - and almost every single one of them is created by a long ball over the top. I am yet to see a central midfielder slide a through ball to the striker. They seem to love looking directly at the wide open number 9, stopping, and then playing it square to the full back or winger.

Same league for me. I’ve seen only  two 1 on 1’s converted in 12 matches so far (our of ~20-30 attempts). I’ve got a newly promoted relegation candidate so playing a lot of counter attack football. We get 1-3 breakaways per match and never convert. Usually we just kick it right at the keeper. Decent striker for this level too. 

I have seen a number of these come from through balls from midfielders though. I’ve tried to get midfielders with good vision and passing though.

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