Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Dagenham_Dave]

5 minutes ago, BigV said:

Wasn't that ME 2016 and not the current one? 

No, it was the current one. 

[saihtam]

1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

Above is the same team only the base for retention is created in a different manner. Here, the RW moves inside (#19) while the LW (#11) switches to the right flank. However, just switching side isn't going to create space to receive the pass. What is actually needed is constant movement from all off the ball players. Two steps back, three steps left, check left-sprint right, move inside-drop deep... These small movement, (coordinated) switches of position are things that make it difficult for the defending team to keep their shape and mantain compactness. They create space and they are almost non existent in the FM. Just think when would your IW from the first picture come to the right flank in FM? He'd always stay more or less on the left. Add to that lack of those small movement to shake off the marker and you are basically left with nothing.

 

Firstly have you created these pictures or there is some good site to see these? Looking into more real life football on my own - so would love some analytic reads etc. Thnx

 

On topic. What about using roam from positsion? For winger it would be understandable that he will still stay more to the sideline, but on IF, AP or IW with this intsuction should be more adventure and end up in middle or even on other side? I remember it being the case 4-5 FM back (Also depends on some PPM) , Havent really tried it again, but is one plan this FM with IF and IW + swapping positsion to have more movement and unexpected scenarios. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by saihtam

[ak71]

Did raise about this concern. However, feel disappointed that it has not been addressed. Saw quite a few of this thing in the match engine. Took away the realism of the game. 😪

[Dagenham_Dave]

8 minutes ago, ak71 said:

Did raise about this concern. However, feel disappointed that it has not been addressed. Saw quite a few of this thing in the match engine. Took away the realism of the game. 😪

That's not a match engine issue, it's an animations issue.

[GOODNAME]

I just hate it when my player goes one on one against the GK  from impossible angle and shot to the side netting instead of crossing it

SO so so so frustrating 

[autohoratio]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Imagine the meltdown on here, if someone was managing Barcelona and this happened....

Barcelona started with four forwards and no idea, an empty space where one of the interiores should be, playing a sort of 4-1-1-1-3, maybe a 4-2-4, if you could call it anything at all. Slow, lacking ideas, barely able to open up lines of passes, they gave the ball away 135 times. Most the time, it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say they didn’t know what to do.

This is an excerpt from the Guardian's report on their recent game vs Leganés. 

People who want the game to be exactly like real life...be careful what you wish for. 

Valverde is a case of life imitating art

[MBarbaric]

53 minuti fa, saihtam ha scritto:

What about using roam from positsion? For winger it would be understandable that he will still stay more to the sideline, but on IF, AP or IW with this intsuction should be more adventure and end up in middle or even on other side? I remember it being the case 4-5 FM back (Also depends on some PPM) , Havent really tried it again, but is one plan this FM with IF and IW + swapping positsion to have more movement and unexpected scenarios. 

roam from position is another moot instruction that makes you feel you did something clever, but what does it actually mean? In which phase of the game does it kick in, on what part of the pitch and above all, why, what do you want it to achieve? The sam goes with "moves into channels", "drops deep"...

In the game, they are given in isolation to a certain player. It does happen in real as well, but good teams/managers know what they want to achieve with it and in what conditions. When you tick it on in the FM, what do you know about it? A more "railroaded" approach advocated by Svenc might curtail illogical instructions possibly resulting with better ME but less (redundand/ilogical/contradictory) tactic options. Not to mention it would probably be a nightmare/impossible to code. So, until it sells, I don't see that happening. The defensive overhaul last year already goes that way to an extent. so, there is hope.

you can find high quality in depth knowledge about tactics at spielverlagerung.com. the diagrams are a part of River opposition report ahead of their Copa Libertadores final. 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by MBarbaric

[autohoratio]

49 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The user @rain94 has posted loads of examples on this thread alone of the engine working the way it should, showcasing some glorious passages of play. 

The thing is, the match engine working the way SI intends it to is different to the match engine emulating realistic football tactics. Pressing as a unit is virtually impossible in FM, because the players see only the ball carrier and not his teammates. You can't really play a true double pivot where the holding midfielder and advancing midfielder alternate. Set pieces are so unintuitive in the TC, lack customisation and ways to implement creative 'training-ground' free kick/corner routines. If your full-back is instructed to overlap a winger who has drifted infield, the holding midfielder doesn't move out to cover the flank. to use hyperbole, the match engine feels less like a well-oiled machine of 11 components instructed to execute patterns of play, and more like 11 individuals who have each been given the script to a different film.

[Kazza]

Not committed to buying FM 20 just yet so I downloaded the demo. A few small observations from me.

Positives:

·         Graphically on the pitch, players etc. look far better;

·         Game runs smoothly and quicker;

·         Tactics appear harder than previous iterations;

·         Like the new additions re vision, medical and so forth;

·         At last, fans in the stadium don’t all wear the team’s strip.

 

Negatives:

·         The UI is awful, truly poor and unintuitive (sad that I feel that I need to get a 3^rd party skin to make the game presentable);

·         Having the U23/18 lumped in with the main squad is not easier or quicker and slicker it is abominable - why change for the sake of it – if it ain’t broke don’t fix it;

·         Training – having transferred the responsibilities to one of my coaches he appears to give no player individual extra training. In FM19 you could do that as a one off and still leave the training to the coach;

·         Stadiums - umm yet again no improvement in their look and appearance re no matter what club or so it appears.

I cannot comment on the ME as I do not have the in depth knowledge that some of you guys have so I just follow the debate. As I run out as Newcastle United, defenders scoring, attacking players poor, players hitting the side net and forwards not scoring are the norm!

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Kazza

[saihtam]

20 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

roam from position is another moot instruction that makes you feel you did something clever, but what does it actually mean? In which phase of the game does it kick in, on what part of the pitch and above all, why, what do you want it to achieve? The sam goes with "moves into channels", "drops deep"...

In the game, they are given in isolation to a certain player. It does happen in real as well, but good teams/managers know what they want to achieve with it and in what conditions. When you tick it on in the FM, what do you know about it?

you can find high quality in depth knowledge about tactics at spielverlagerung.com. the diagrams are a part of River opposition report ahead of their Copa Libertadores final. 

 

That site I know, thnx

Thats true, every aspect of the game can almost bring down to this level. I think it is possible to achieve more specific instructions and get more control what happens on the pitch for FM. I see movement on that direction with 64bit support.But they need to make huge leap to take more advantage of strong computers to go a lot complex with simulation. Having min req as Processor: Intel Pentium 4 (64-bit), Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 – 2.2 GHz + and Memory: 2 GB RAM is devastating knowing what possibilities could achieved upgrading more. I understand the option to have more player base with low end PC, but we will dwell in this circle for long time if they wont make the leap.
Hope for next but if FM22 still will use only 2gb RAM and worse to continue with min req Pentium 4 i will quit the series as this shows no desire for progress.

Edit: I know this wont happen in a instant, thats why it is good to see 64bit support coming in as this is opening possibility to use up more power from PC. Moving into right direction, hope they continue.

Edited November 26, 2019 by saihtam

[pizzachips]

is it just me or is it quite difficult to assign players from 1st team to under 23r's now just for match practice.

any help welcome lads

[Svenc]

7 hours ago, srvngrc said:

And the defending team should do something. At least the midfielders should run back. The roles and duties are important of course but there should be a free will

It's not the roles and duties. It's the individual man marking instruction. Tell a player to mark the Opposition CB and he'll do that. It's Always been followed like that. Hence why it has to be used with utmost cautious -- if you'd say your anchor man or one of the CBs to man mark, he leaves his Position in your Formation as soon as the Opposition regains the ball. (Funny that you would say that, as I have the Impression that Players would actually enjoy it if their instructions were followed like Players were robots ).

Edited November 26, 2019 by Svenc

[Rashidi]

5 minutes ago, Svenc said:

The roles and duties are important of course but there should be a free will

If every player used free will in the game of football, we'd have a lot of pochettino's out of work. There has to be balance within the overall tactical plan of the manager.

Edit: And if you think you can design an AI to mimic humans free will, then I suggest you go do it, you'd be richer than Gates.

[Halofon]

Sorry if this has been asked before. Is the demo getting the ME updates also, please? I am playing demo for now, and too many shots to the side of the net so far.

[Dixie93]

19 minutes ago, Halofon said:

Sorry if this has been asked before. Is the demo getting the ME updates also, please? I am playing demo for now, and too many shots to the side of the net so far.

Welcome to the club 

[Steve8066]

I must say that im very disappointed with the current state of the game, to me it seems as though it simply wasnt ready for release.

I play the matches on 3D full match, and the number of issues im finding are simply too numerous for this to be labeled as a quality release. Some of these are.....

- side netting as already mentioned.

- in 4 matches i had a total of 82 shots, 58 of which were on target, and yet i scored 0 goals. In those same 4 games the opposition had a total of 9 shots with 4 on target. The results D0-0, L0-1, L0-1, L0-1. Seriously, are you saying thats right and not a bug/flaw?

- referees whilstle not sounding on every occasion that it should. Some corners, free kicks, penalties, offsides etc. just happen with no sound whatsoever.

- crowd noises just stop and then start again (substitutions, corners etc.)

- the noise when a player passes or dribbles (like a small tap), sometimes gets stuck in a loop when the ball is in the air/not near a player and sounds like a constipated woodpecker.

- offside decisions are made far too long after the actual event happens. (the worst i had was my player stood offside in opposition half of centre circle, he received the ball and ran all the way to the goal and scored before the flag was raised and the whistle sounded (if the whistle sound did actually bother to play on that decision.))

Some might say that they dont notice it when playing highlights only or 2d but to me thats not the point as these are things that should never have been left in and released.

1 final point is that these are all noticed on a vanilla game, not with any mods added so thats not the cause.

[FlorianAlbert9]

Briefly. 

I like more than 19. 

I'm playing with Kazincbarcika, a second division team from Hungary so i cannot currently see ME at his best like playing with Barca.

- Club Vision: very positive. I like It and seems to be reasonable dynamic.

It's a pity that, again, supporter' role Is very marginal.

In the second year they added  some playng style (It Is possibile they will add also some club transfer policy or no?)

Even if i accomplished It I don't really understand what they mean for entrateinment football (team creativity freedom? Players making tricks'?).

-Develpment centre Is Just a cosmetical feature, even if welcomed.

- I like the ME even if has some issue. I don't have problem with 1v1 conversion (maybe the problem Is that there are too many). 

There are too many long shot goal. And maybe Wide players tends to shoot when Is easier passing (but i don't have top Class player so i don't really know).

Central Defenders should be less dumb with long pass over them. 

I like that the dribbling are back again.

At the end FM Is great for the value but for me very important aspects of football are missing (like supporters, the sense of difference between a sunday league and world cup match, the Legacy of person who made great this sport, a realistic development way, good animation to see the difference between a Ronaldinho and a Nedved.)

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by FlorianAlbert9

[MBarbaric]

20 minuti fa, FlorianAlbert9 ha scritto:

I don't really understand what they mean for entrateinment football

I believe it means goals. high scoring games, basically Kevin Keegan Newcastle of mid 90s if I recall well. Score a lot and try to concede one less.

[srvngrc]

1 saat önce, Rashidi said:

If every player used free will in the game of football, we'd have a lot of pochettino's out of work. There has to be balance within the overall tactical plan of the manager.

Edit: And if you think you can design an AI to mimic humans free will, then I suggest you go do it, you'd be richer than Gates.

You misunderstood me i think. I’m not saying players should make all decisions by themselves. I’m just saying they can give a reaction to opposition’s attack at least. IRL you can’t see a situation like that. It’s not important what the manager said. 

[FlorianAlbert9]

16 minuti fa, MBarbaric ha scritto:

I believe it means goals. high scoring games, basically Kevin Keegan Newcastle of mid 90s if I recall well. Score a lot and try to concede one less.

But It make a little sense, cause scoring a lot of goals is also in demand of attacking football. 

And It seems to me that they don't talk about goals when i reach it

Edited November 26, 2019 by FlorianAlbert9

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, Steve8066 said:

- in 4 matches i had a total of 82 shots, 58 of which were on target, and yet i scored 0 goals. In those same 4 games the opposition had a total of 9 shots with 4 on target. The results D0-0, L0-1, L0-1, L0-1. Seriously, are you saying thats right and not a bug/flaw?

Did you download on of those CHinese firecracker tactics somewhere? Explanations to the suspicious in this thread. I've never had anything near this on any release of FM ever until I went all illogical bonkers tactics (which the game allows, as a Football Simulation game).

You don't want to hear this, but the way the game is set up this will be connected to tactics 100%. Unfortunately though, it is also easy to spam shots (on target) that see a low Chance of conversion. And the "on target" may be the bigger issue here: Crystal Palace started two seasons ago by not scoring once in 8 matches from 90 shots the first couple Matches. The Forwards then getting flagged frustrated and the Opposition, including the keeper growing in confidence from surviving the bombardment (see also Body language Feedback) may do the rest.

I'm  actually surprised there isn't more of this in this thread, as some of the stuff going around download platforms is once again Pretty insane. On FM 19 I could understand it, as the set piece exploits shared were hugely powerful and saved everybody's butt one Buggy long throw or Long post Corner routine at a time. If the Argument is "realism"; then one day the game would Need to Limit Managers to making realistic Football decisions.
 

7 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

i know what you meant on bolded part, but to be (again) painfully pedantic, that isn't really true. During my career (in real football, not this sin of ours) I've encountered numerous teams that use "poacher" up front and combine it with patient and possession hungry football. It all comes down how to compensate for that "lazy" player and there are infinite number of ways. 

 

Could be, but you have to make the distinctionbetween actual Football and how the ME represents it. In FM, a Poacher is coded as that Kind of role that makes the Forward not all that much engaged into Play. He doesn't move from his positions, he doesn't drop off, he simply crashes against the Opposition backline where he would occupy a centre back (and Focus on finishing off what his Team mates may be creating). In doing this, he is naturally "taken out of the game". Therefore, in-game, a Player may struggle to get his involved in the passing play, in particular if played as a lone striker. Naturally, personal traits edited to the Player used can change this some.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Svenc

[kiwityke1983]

I'm loving this year's version of the game and I ain't seeing the side netting issue as others are (I saw that loads on the updated beta ME but not since) my strikers score goals. One on one's are scored regularly. Some are missed but those are generally ones where the player is forced wide/is under pressure/the keeper closes him down.

Overall FM20 is better than FM19 for me personally.

Started my long term journeyman save, got a job in Singapore. Finished 3rd bottom having won 2 games all season. Second season had won a further 2 games halfway through when it all clicked and we went on a mad run winning a league and Cup treble. Currently unbeaten after 13 games in my 3rd season. 

I'm having fun, even when I wasn't winning I was having fun trying to win. 

My one major gripe is average ratings seem to be absolutely broken league wide. I can live with that though. 

[Burnley92]

I've been reading this thread for a while and thought it would be the usual case of forum members complaining for the sake of it...

Wrong!

I don't care how my tactics are set up, there's not a winger/wing-back in the world who would shoot in to the side netting 4 times a game when the striker is 8 yards away waiting for a tap in. The match engine is broken and is sucking the fun out of the game.

 

I love the rest of the game and the new features such as the development centre and club vision. FM20 has the potential to be one of the best games in the series, but the ME needs some serious work because at the moment I feel that I have wasted my money.

 

 

[Svenc]

27 minutes ago, Burnley92 said:

I've been reading this thread for a while and thought it would be the usual case of forum members complaining for the sake of it...

Wrong!

I don't care how my tactics are set up, there's not a winger/wing-back in the world who would shoot in to the side netting 4 times a game when the striker is 8 yards away waiting for a tap in. The match engine is broken and is sucking the fun out of the game.

Seeing as you're a Burnley fan I'm curious: Dou you specifically mean the justified complaints About the "side Netting" issue or the more general concerns About having lots of shots without scoring? 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Svenc

[Dixie93]

Side netting

 

[bassistuk]

Ive got a scouting bug in the lower leagues! having scouted a plyer the socut came back to me with literally NOTHING! and have a look at the descroption. Defintely a bug!

[autohoratio]

Just now, bassistuk said:

Ive got a scouting bug in the lower leagues! having scouted a plyer the socut came back to me with literally NOTHING! and have a look at the descroption. Defintely a bug!

Report it in the bugs section, upload a savegame before you received that scouting message
https://community.sigames.com/forum/742-transfers-contracts-and-staff-responsibilities/

 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

4 hours ago, Steve8066 said:

- referees whilstle not sounding on every occasion that it should. Some corners, free kicks, penalties, offsides etc. just happen with no sound whatsoever.

FWIW there is no requirement for a whistle on corners (at all) or free-kicks (unless a caution/dismissal has occurred, or the referee has set up the wall), so there's no need for it there. Penalties and offside do need the whistle though.

 

I see lots of complaints about the ME, but I am going to continue in my vein of whining about the media; See the picture attached.

 

For context: Motherwell (me) vs some semi-pro Maltese team.

I pumped them 6-0 at their place, but unlike Mr. Lennon (see my last post) I didn't wave my ego about thinking I was amazing. Second leg, we smash them 6-0 again, for a 12-0 aggregate win.

 

For what it's worth I went with the fourth reply, because I like to pretend I'm a witty idiot, but apparently sarcasm doesn't work in FM...

[bigmattb28]

Since the newest update, I've not been on my laptop for a few days, running FM 20 and the fans are going nuts. Never heard them like this, laptop was bought new end of August so it's not my laptop. Put FM 19 on and the fans aren't racing like they did when I had 20 on. Any ideas? Has anyone else got this issue?

It Didn't do this during beta or at all since full release until I updated. Don't really want to play it if it's going to be doing this.

[Burnley92]

1 hour ago, Svenc said:

Seeing as you're a Burnley fan I'm curious: Dou you specifically mean the justified complaints About the "side Netting" issue or the more general concerns About having lots of shots without scoring? 

 

 

1. Burnley don't ever have "lots of shots" 

 

2. We have scored 6 goals in our last 2 games 

 

3. No one likes us, we don't care! 

[Svenc]

6 minutes ago, Burnley92 said:

 

 

1. Burnley don't ever have "lots of shots" 

No, but they frequently are the Team who "concede lots of shots" -- and still win. Sean Dyche, like any Manager, doesN't care About the amount of shots. What he cares About is what those shots look like. No Campaign exemplified this more than their 2017/2018 one. A few early "Highlights". By december that year they had conceded 20 shots AVERAGE -- but only conceded as many Goals as Pep's City (12). 

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190176/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Chelsea-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190300/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Southampton-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190255/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Everton-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190214/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Burnley-Crystal-Palace
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190201/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Tottenham-Burnley
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1285103/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2018-2019-Manchester-United-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190196/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Burnley

 

That's why I was asking what you meant as you should be familiar with the General idea -- how Football isn't a Sports About racking up shot Counts on a spreadsheet.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by Svenc

[Burnley92]

2 minutes ago, Svenc said:

No, but they frequently are the Team who "concede lots of shots" -- and still win. Sean Dyche, like any Manager, doesN't care About the amount of shots. What he cares About is what those shots look like. No Campaign exemplified this more than their 2017/2018 one. A few early "Highlights". By december that year they had conceded 20 shots AVERAGE -- but only conceded as many Goals as Pep's City (12). 

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190176/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Chelsea-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190300/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Southampton-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190255/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Everton-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190214/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Burnley-Crystal-Palace
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190201/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Tottenham-Burnley
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1285103/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2018-2019-Manchester-United-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190196/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Burnley

 

That's why I was asking what you meant as you should be familiar with the General idea -- how Football isn't a Sports About racking up shot Counts on a spreadsheet.  

 

Ah, touchè. But yes, I was talking about the side netting issue. 

 

Burnley play lots of long balls and crosses in to the box, but never have I seen our wingers shoot in to the side netting when it would be easier to pass. I don't think they would dare.

 

I have no issues with shots taken/scored so far, but that's just me.

[Dennis_Ajax]

There are so many bugs in the game and the ME that I don't know where to start.. Damn. The Dev team must be working like crazy now, it is one big mess.

[BigV]

42 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

Since the newest update, I've not been on my laptop for a few days, running FM 20 and the fans are going nuts. Never heard them like this, laptop was bought new end of August so it's not my laptop. Put FM 19 on and the fans aren't racing like they did when I had 20 on. Any ideas? Has anyone else got this issue?

It Didn't do this during beta or at all since full release until I updated. Don't really want to play it if it's going to be doing this.

Custom your graphics. I managed to turn everything low and put game graphics on medium. Worked smooth and was decent. It's in the preference bit I think. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

5 hours ago, Steve8066 said:

- in 4 matches i had a total of 82 shots, 58 of which were on target, and yet i scored 0 goals. In those same 4 games the opposition had a total of 9 shots with 4 on target. The results D0-0, L0-1, L0-1, L0-1. Seriously, are you saying thats right and not a bug/flaw?

 

Well, given the AI controlled team is using the same match engine as you...

[Dagenham_Dave]

3 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I'm loving this year's version of the game and I ain't seeing the side netting issue as others are

Me neither. In fact, I've hardly seen it happen since the beta build. 

Do I still see shots being hit into the side netting? Of course, because it happens in real life. Is it happening 5-6 times a game when there's a striker free in the box? Absolutely not. 

Bug thumbs up to SI for giving me a better version of the game than almost everyone else. Again. 

[plcarlos]

I'm struggling with too many corners so far. This is so blatant, it's beyond a joke:

 

Did Dele get the ball?! Nope.... - Kick it against the defender - With his weaker foot.....

At the by-line, this option is taken far too much, which is leading to more corners, and hence goals from set plays.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Another picture with a story:

This is my transfer feedback.

I direct you to look at Allain Campbell

 

That guy was becoming world class from my awesome training abilities as a manager. The board elected to sell him to Leicester for a pittance. And now they're marking me down for selling him? When it was their deal? Excuse me? I didn't even want to sell him... Bah!

[rdbayly]

Completed a season with Leicester and here are my thoughts. I limped to a 9th placed finish, which I felt was very poor given the squad at my disposal. First of all, let's dispel the myth that strikers can't score, as Vardy won the golden boot for me. Man Utd winning the title with that squad is laughable, but I've also seen them come 8th on other people's saves. Incidentally, Rashford was the most over-powered player I encountered by a mile.

  

I do feel that goals from AI strikers were a little on the low side though?

This was my primary system used for most of the season:

There is another version of this I switch to for more direct transitions away from home. Vardy got loads of goals from balls over the top and chasing down seemingly lost causes. Pretty spot on in that regard.

What alarmed me most when I reflect on the season, was my team's inability to defend. I'm talking about the most basic and fundamental aspects of defending. This was particularly the case in the final third of the season:

I can't recall a save in my 25 year relationship with this franchise, in which I have conceded so many goals in such a jaw-dropping fashion. I'm a fairly defensive manager, so this really shocked me.

I would be happy to take on any tactical advice on how to stem this dreadful tide next season. I am determined to get a lower block working as i am sick of high LOE & counter press systems. The key patterns of concession were:

• Crazy unopposed dribbles that span fully 50-70 yards of the pitch. During which, my players simply jog alongside them and do nothing (despite being instructed to get stuck in and urgently press within my zone of engagement) 
• Losing ariel battles at set pieces. Despite pawing over the set piece creator to ensure the key danger areas are covered by the biggest brutes at the club; they were routinely out-jumped by those with inferior jumping reach and strength.  
• Mis-timed headers. The odd one or two of these are perfectly acceptable, but when both centre backs are guilty of this over half a dozen times at key stages of games, it becomes an obvious outlier.

Going forward, occurrences of players shooting from the byline into the side netting was the single biggest issue that plagued my season. Now look, I'm a fairly rationale person and I have better things to do than lie to strangers on a forum. Believe me when I say that between myself and the AI (who were probably bigger culprits of this than I) - I would say a very conservative estimate per match would be 2 highlights (on extended) ending in this way. Over a 38 game season that is 80 instances of players shooting from the actual byline. Just to be clear about how I am defining these, I've included an example below. I thought I would exclude the human variable and choose one of the many, many, many, many AI delights:

I believe those who say they are not seeing these, what I can't understand is why? The AI do it just as much as I do!

I've reached the conclusion that there are multiple versions of this game out there. I'm not saying there isn't fun to be had; it's a thrill ride at times. I stand by the fact that I feel this ME is bizarre, frantic, random and chaotic. Alongside its beauty are gaping flaws that undermine its credibility. The few staunch fans I know who have always played have already walked away, which is a first in decades. I will persevere though, there's a great game in here somewhere.

Edited November 27, 2019 by rdbayly

[3maldini3]

On 26/11/2019 at 02:04, rain94 said:

I also have no issues with the Wingbacks shooting into the side netting or at sharp angles. Here is my right back and his PPM's.  I play him as WB-Attack and I play at-most with a positive mentality, only increasing it to attack and very attacking if I'm behind and the match is in the latter stages. I also overlap rightside. I very rarely see him or the left back for that matter shoot. Eli had 5 shots (2 OT) in the first game, 3 shots (3 OT) in the second game, and 3 shots in the 5th game. In the other games he hasn't shot at all.  Here is a screenshot of the game when he had 5 shots.    

Eli Dasa

[Etebaer]

I understand why some Players like the ME - when it does the things right they appear to be beautyful, reactive, spectacular, even smart.

Its only it does also utterly dumb things in a way very upsetting i.e. why are 6 of my Players placed close to or in the Box when my Goalkeeper brings the ball back into play after the oposing Team lost Possession (what is the english term for that situation - Goalkick?)?

For sure i already had to eat some Goals from that bad positioning - FM19 did that so much better...

[Svenc]

6 hours ago, rdbayly said:

 

• Losing ariel battles at set pieces. Despite pawing over the set piece creator to ensure the key danger areas are covered by the biggest brutes at the club; they were routinely out-jumped by those with inferior jumping reach and strength.  

Stuff like that should be eyed closely, as they may be a part of why Players can rack up this many shots (on target) with barely scoring, despite their tactics de facto struggling to break defenses down. It's been too easy to get shots off from the set piece imo for a couple releases at least. Those headers are oftenly just typically saved though (and at masses see a Rating bump for the keeper…) Looking at FM's stats, it Looks as if Teams would tore a defense a new one. When almost all of those shots from premium positions come off set pieces though, (Blue dots here) ….. really not so much.

It's hard to tell how "spot on" FM is. But this would be the average conversion in Football going by type of assist and Location. It's not taking the specific pressure in the Situation into account though (which will be high on the set piece, packed box and all). Headers are harder to score than kicks. And the next time somebody argued FM Matches would end 7-7 if all of those one on ones from difficult angles would be scored… 

As of Vardy vs rest of the league. Would be interesting if you took a look at how many shots per match average he got, and compare that to the AI Forwards. From my experience, there are very few if any AI central forwards who would have more than 4 shots per game average (Messi IRL 5, Kane at his best ditto, Lewandowski this season in the BL 5 - in the CL 6;  CR7 7). This can be either gauged from the fwd's profile -- or you can enter a column into each squad's screen that says "shots per 90 Minute". The seasonal number of Goals is Always going to fluctuate by random Chance (and Vardy may not be able to repeat), the number of shots much less so. It seems Pretty apparent that the AI wider guys get more SOT though (Mane, Pepe), probably due to That ME Issue talked about. The SOT conversion of Kane for instance is fine. THat's almost a Goal every 2nd SOT. He would simply Need a lot more of those (preferably some from actual open Play as opposed to the set piece to boot :D) . Some of this will be AI tactical, some of which ME inherent (striker movement)

As of the tactics, there is Nothing much  defensive About your primary tactics to me. The Formation is a fairly top heavy one to boot. Your left flank is wide open too, no less as there's a big gap between the defensive IWB who also Comes inside to leave that open,and the left advanced guy. May be worthwile to check in the Analysis from which side of the pitch the Goals are coming from, and is one for the tactics Forum either way. Note that you shipped those massive Goals in a sequence of coming against one of the three big dogs though, two of which should be amongst the strongest Teams in the db. And United, well, they won it all.
 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Svenc

[glosoli]

Wing back or winger runs towards the byline and blasts the ball into the side netting, It's not surprising to me anymore. The frustrating thing is, he applauds himself while running back to his position. I would fine his sorry non-talented feet if I could... Can you at least remove that animation to keep some of us sane?

[bigmattb28]

9 hours ago, BigV said:

Custom your graphics. I managed to turn everything low and put game graphics on medium. Worked smooth and was decent. It's in the preference bit I think. 

Tried that still the same.

I'm giving up on 20 for the time being. I can't watch matches with the fans on my 2 month old gaming laptop racing and sound like they're about to take off. Didn't happen in the beta or until I updated to the newest patch. Going back to 17 for now. Appreciate it's probably not something the devs can sort out, but find it strange that it's only doing this once I've updated the game.

[Svenc]

8 hours ago, rdbayly said:

I've reached the conclusion that there are multiple versions of this game out there. 

That's actually true. The game DID release as an Arsenal Special Edition...  

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/15118/10189870/wasteful-arsenals-premier-league-title-hopes-hit-by-poor-finishing
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9281309/arsenal-aubameyang-premier-league-unlucky-wasteful/
https://www.fotmob.com/news/1t6uob1qgavb7131vvf9sra9vt-wenger-rues-poor-finishing-as-arsenal's-title-hopes-stutter
http://dailycannon.com/2017/12/30-shots-per-goal-but-wenger-says-bad-finishing-is-part-of-the-game/ 


On a more serious note, though, that's only to be expected. As tactics HUGELY influence the Kind of Play that transpires, some will see issues more, some less. The illogical exploit tactics shipped around the community can sometimes highlight them to absurdly Degrees...……. Different release, same old Thing. Never been different.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Svenc

[MatthewS17]

I think the problems aren't 1v1s completely. I've seen several times over the course of a season, when a player had a chance, and the resulting effort went ludicrously off target. As in, a player positioned just wide of the penalty spot, with a chance to shoot rifles it closer to the corner flag than the actual goal. One time, or low occurrence, okay. But it happens again and again. So I imagine the reason is that chances are being nerfed, to prevent high score lines. 

On top of that, you find sometimes you'd enter the opposition penalty area, and suddenly your player hoofs it back to the halfway line. Realistic, no? 

It almost seems like this is to compensate for the woeful defending that you see. 

Midfielders don't play to their strengths. You don't see the more creative players taking risks in their passing. Again, the obvious. Few to no central passes. And instead they tap it around. Fred and McTominay have become my most creative players over Pogba and Eriksen ffs. More key passes, more chances created. And Pogba is in a more advanced role. 

Defending was supposed to be "improved" but chances are created in the most outlandish and bizarre ways when you watch them take place. 

Defenders always out of position at random times, sometimes running away from the ball, running under the ball, incredibly slow reactions, and in general have not a clue what they're doing. So with that in mind, I imagine the attacking play was toned done to allow the defensive frailties to exist without overpowering them. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

12 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Another picture with a story:

This is my transfer feedback.

I direct you to look at Allain Campbell

 

That guy was becoming world class from my awesome training abilities as a manager. The board elected to sell him to Leicester for a pittance. And now they're marking me down for selling him? When it was their deal? Excuse me? I didn't even want to sell him... Bah!

At least the fans know the score. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Dagenham_Dave

[Halofon]

So is the demo getting ME updates, please, or not? I have read that the side netting has been fixed a bit in the newest updates, but do not want to buy the game until I do not evaluate it.

Thx

[Svenc]

27 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

It almost seems like this is to compensate for the woeful defending that you see. 

Yeah, there's obviously also selfish decisions made int he final third in general, which is part of the reason why wide guys "blast it", oft even if they could lay it off. Still to me that's an interesting perception considering the high percentage of shots on FM being from the set piece in General. If defending was that bad (and or attacking that OP), those set piece attempts wouldn'T be that highly. Every set piece, after all, is the result of a defense still getting a foot into a move somehow. I've never seen a match of FM where the attacking Team had like 95% of ist shots being from genuinelly Play (my own included mind) on any recent release. And that happens in footie.

Actually, defending may be overpowered (and I don't mean the specific defending of the wide guys that sees them through on Goal this oftenly). I mean in the bigger Picture, and way before FM 20. That is expect for set piece defending. It's probably too easy amass shots (on target) from the set piece imo. That's where the main Frustration Comes from, either way. For somebody who never Looks deeper than FM's simple stats in particular. As argued, whenever I see an FM match of 12+ SOT with barely a Goal, I know what to look out for, and it very very rarely disappoints. A few reasonably Quality chances at best, and loads of headers under pressure from a Corner, free kick or throw in belted into the box and similar.  It's gotten as predictable as clockwork.

To check and balance that, SI would really Need to make a statistically distinction in the future where there shots are coming from as a starting Point. Simply looking at the average amount of shots in a match would only say this much. There's two Kinds of defending: Positional Play and static set piece based Play. Which in-game, both have their own tactics screen as well.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Svenc

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, Halofon said:

So is the demo getting ME updates, please, or not? I have read that the side netting has been fixed a bit in the newest updates, but do not want to buy the game until I do not evaluate it.

Thx

The Demo does get updated.