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About bleventozturk

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    Houston, TX


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    Football, FM, Running, NCAA

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  1. Well, I used it for 2 games, and in both games both my wing backs on support duty ended up with 15-20 crosses each. Without it, everything else being the same, they typically average 5-8 crosses per game. I am sure the opponent's tactic plays a role too, but the difference was drastic, so that TI must be encouraging them to cross more for sure. And it shouldn't be that way in my opinion, or if it is, there should be at least an explanation on the TI. I discover a lot of things in FM match engine by trial and error. For whatever TI I chose, I am never sure what it will really do before trying it in isolation. That part of the game needs a lot of improvement, to make it more user friendly. Yesterday I discovered another new thing that I would not expect to be the case: In my tactic I was using a DLP (s) in the DM position. I would expect that player to receive a lot of passes in the build up of attacks, sure, and that is actually what is happening in ME. What I wouldn't expect is the effect of picking that role for one player on the TEMPO that my team plays with. The entire team moves, dribbles, passes the ball around significantly slower when that player in the DM position has the DLP role. Why? Again, I don't just mean that my more attacking players keep passing the ball back to the DLP when I say slower tempo. Even when other players are passing the ball around between themselves, without the DLP involved, they are doing it in such a slow tempo, so I'm pretty sure picking that role affects the entire team tempo. I changed that role to BWM (s) for experiment, and the increase in tempo was drastic. I wish the game would tell us all these important consequences of our choices.
  2. Just one thing I want to mention about the number of crosses: it caught my eye that Dave1990's team instructions above included 'whipped crosses'. Bear in mind that I am still playing FM 15, but I only recently noticed that when I pick 'whipped crosses' in an attempt to only change the type of crossing my team uses, this actually increases the number of crosses drastically. My conclusion was that I was misinterpreting what this TI does. Or maybe it was coincidence? I don't know. Any word on this from the tactical experts here?
  3. I understand, but hasn't that been the case with every version of the game? There is always a combination of formation, shape, roles, etc. that gives you the edge, and the game becomes easy/boring. That's why I try to limit myself always by not tweaking this and that too much. Once I create a tactic that produces realistic results (based on my team's strength), if I am happy with the style, I just stop there, because I don't want to accidentally exploit the ME. Of course what you are saying is a little different, because you say 'ANY' system works with control/fluid. Could be true, but I like playing control/fluid a lot, I always did, and I don't remember winning everything easily. Maybe my role selections were terrible By looking at some success threads here, I can see that same goes for FM 18, like people winning Premiere league with Palace in their first season, and I am not surprised. It is a game, it is not real, and after thousands of hours of testing I am sure there will still be some combination of instructions that will give the human player the edge over the AI.
  4. I am sure the same success can be achieved in every version, once enough time is invested to discover all the weaknesses and exploits. From the perspective of how the player and ball movement is presented on the screen, the series starting with FM 16 took a big step back in my opinion, and after three versions it still did not reach the FM 15 level yet. How players look when they are running is just ridiculous and very cartoonish. It looks like a game from 20 years ago. The frequency of the strides vs. speed just looks unrealistic. Same goes for ball speed sometimes. Yes, FM 15 certainly has important flaws, especially on the defensive side. The average shots per game is significantly higher than real life for example, and it bothers me a lot. Still, I can enjoy playing FM 15, and even if I bought the later versions I would still be playing FM 15. $50 is nothing for me, I would buy the game if I knew I would enjoy playing it. I actually did buy FM 16 eventually at some point, because I trusted SI was going to bring it to a playable level, but something unexpected happened: with the third patch SI claimed it was too late to fix the crossing issue. That was the first time SI decided to quit supporting the product before all 'major' issues were fixed. Therefore, I will never buy FM before playing the demo of the final product any more. Lesson learned lol Anyway, this wasn't my point in this thread. I just wanted to hear some advice from experts like you, Rashidi.
  5. Thanks, HUNT3R. Do you suggest that I should defend deeper if I want to create more counter attacks? It is just if I have more players on 'attack' duty, when I win the ball it seems to me like those players in attack duty go forward much faster and that helps triggering a counter attack. My observation could be wrong though.
  6. I forgot to ask. Does 'work ball into box' only decrease the long shots, or does it also affect the build up from the back and middle of the field? In other words, does it prevent my team from starting a counter attack? Thanks.
  7. I experimented some more, and I can now confirm what Rashidi said above. Roles > Formation. So, the answer to my question is a certain NO. The player roles that give me huge success using the standard & control mentalities, just don't work any more when I switch to counter mentality. I wish it wasn't like that, but it is what it is. I had 4 'attack' roles in my 4-1-2-3. If I keep them and switch from standard to counter, I get destroyed. I switched 3 of them to support, and kept only 1 at attack, and all of a sudden 'counter' works great. I am still getting pressured, which is expected, but the opponents have to work really hard to get a clear scoring chance. But now I have another question for you experts. It is the attack side that is bothering me now a little. First, I almost never see a counter attack by my team. They are jut too slow moving forward. Second, they are taking way too many long shots. The second issue I resolved by adding 'work ball into box' TI. I am not sure what to do with the first issue though. I know from one of Cleon's thread that the counter attacking is something that is automatically triggered (and it is triggered somewhat easier when using the 'counter' mentality if I remember correctly) when the chance is there. So, I am thinking maybe my TI's of 'push higher up' and 'close down more' are preventing it, because sitting deeper will probably create more counter attacking chances? Just to give you a glance, these are my roles DR-DL: WB (s) 2 DC's (d) 3 midfielders with 2x(s) and 1x(a) (I use sometimes 1 DM and 2 CM, and sometimes 2 DM and 1 CM) 2 IF's (s) 1 DLF(s) No PI's at all TI's: push higher up, close down more, tackle harder
  8. Thanks a lot for some great responses. I think what will really help the game is to give us a freedom to create tactics while attacking and while defending, separately. I know that this has been discussed a million times, and I am patiently waiting for SI to implement this big change in the ME. I have been trying the demos since FM16, and it is the same old same old, so I stopped buying the game, waiting for a significantly developed product. Maybe FM 2019, who knows.. On a side note, I personally believe that the FM 2015 ME is better than the next gen ME's that started with FM 2016, based on how it looks (animations, speed/physics, etc.), and how the tactics work. If I was a billionaire I would buy SI and ask them to go back to FM 2015 and work on the defensive side of the ME to create a great game for me )
  9. I am still playing FM2015, but probably it applies to newer versions too since it is a general tactical thing.. I finally got my 4-3-3 working great offensively, and defensively it is not too bad either. It is a fairly balanced tactic I would say when I look at the number of goals I score and concede. My only remaining problem is, that when I am leading against a tough opponent, I want to switch to a more defensive mentality without switching anything else. So, I go from standard mentality to counter, and almost always all of a sudden the tactic stops working, and I concede multiple goals in 10-15 minutes. I know that when teams play defensive you invite more pressure, but I am only taking it 1 notch down, and the change in performance is so drastic. For whatever it is worth, the opposite however works fine: If I am down in score, keeping everything else I switch to control mentality, and more often than not I score the equalizer. So, is this because in FM2015 playing more attacking is ALWAYS better? I am not going to argue about how realistic the outcomes that I described above are, but I wish there was more flexibility in tactics in this game. You know, like in real life, managers don't have to restructure every players' role if they want to contain the lead with 15 minutes to go. All they have to do (and players already know that anyway) is to tell players to try to defend the lead, play more defensive, get behind the ball, maybe leave a player or two up front for counter attacking. That's it. I wish I would be able to tell everybody to play more defensive without switching all the player roles. I thought changing the mentality would do just that. But by looking at the results, it doesn't work that way.
  10. This is true and mostly matching what I see on the ME. It's just when I pick a 'support' role, I expect to see exactly that: Support. But as you are saying, my wingbacks start supporting the attack too late most of the time, after they catch up with the attack. So, I guess I have to put them in 'attack' role then? But something I read million times on these boards (and I can also confirm it from my games) is that when you have 2 players on the side, if you put both of them in attack role, that wing gets exposed so much on the defensive side, and I like not conceding goals a whole lot more than scoring goals How about the complete wing back role on support? Changing the center mid's roles to CM(s) from BBM really helped though in terms of rescuing the RMD's from getting isolated. From 20-25 passes per game they are now up to 40-45 per game on average.Those two at the center pass the ball back and forth with RMD's a lot, and they establish a good enough link between the defensive midfield zone and the attackers. Still, I just don't understand why my RMD's take so fewer shots than my central midfielders. The moment my CM's or the DLF find space in front of them, they dribble a bit and then take a shot. If anything, they do it too much for my taste. RMD's on the contrary always wait for somebody to get into the box, and that somebody is always the DLF, and not the RMD approaching from the other side. That's not how that role is described in the game, or maybe I am misinterpreting it. But it is an 'attack' role at the end, and I expect them to be more aggressive than the CM(s) at least to go for the goal. Anyway, if I understand correctly, I just need to put one of my wing backs and a center mid into 'attack' role to provide adequate support for my RMD's to get into scoring positions, since that how it worked for you? Can you also tell me what kind of goals did the RMD's score in that team of yours? Did they find space behind the opponent defense, or were you working the ball into the box until they were finding a clear shot? I know it was two years ago, but maybe you remember? FWIW, I tried the IF(a) role for one match, and it was a disaster. I hate that role. They keep dribbling diagonally all match long. As a conceptual issue, it bothers me the most that the roles in the ME are not flexible enough to make it easier for the user to create a preferred style of attack or defense. I like how the IF(a) attacks aggressively into the box, and I can't make them to dribble less. Why not
  11. Lol, ok fine I think you are the one being too sensitive. I was enjoying and appreciating you trying to troubleshoot what was wrong in my setup. Obviously you know a lot more than I do about the mechanics of ME, but that shouldn't mean I will accept everything you say as a gospel. And whatever you say that does not match what I see on my screen, is probably because you don't have all the information you need from my setup anyway. But, whatever, enjoy your evening too sir
  12. I am not trying to be dismissive, I appreciate you taking your time trying to help me understand what is happening. However, some of your comments are contradicting what you have been quoting. Maybe it is typo? For example, as you quoted, I said I want my RMD's to make runs behind the defense without the ball, and you say if I want them to make runs with the ball I should use IF's. RMD's role being trying to find space in front of defense, now this explains it somewhat. Thanks for this information. So, how do you get your RMD's to score more then? If it is not too much trouble, can you briefly describe your formation with two RMD's and player roles, like I did in the original post? I'm really curious. FWIW, I remember seeing a post 2 years ago, from somebody who was using the same formation that I am using. The only difference was (in terms of formation and roles), he was using 1 RMD and 1 IF(a), and a BWM(s) at the center mid. His RMD was his main goal scorer, and that was the first time I wanted to try RMD role. I clearly remember he had a DLF(s) and no APM.
  13. Oh, and I score plenty When I was using BBM's, I was scoring around 2-2.5 per game, and only conceeding 0.5-0.7 per game. After I switched to using CM(s), the scoring skyrocketed. Currently I am scoring around 3.5 per game, and averaging more than 20 shots per game. So, creating chances and scoring goals is not an issue at all. Only the distribution is bothering me, I specifically said that.
  14. Thanks. The ball is supplied to them, plenty of times. My DLF does that (if you read the description in the game for DLF, that's what they are supposed to do anyway). They just refuse to dribble towards the goal and take a shot. It almost looks like they have the 'look for pass first' PPM, but they don't. And no I don't want IF's, I really hate how they just always get the ball and cut inside while dribbling forever. Also, I use two RMD. When one of them gets the ball at the corner of the box, and instead of making use of the empty space in front of them and wait, it is always the DLF sprinting from 20 yards behing into the box, while the other RMD just watches from the other corner. It just looks so unreal. The way they act is so far from real football lol. Isn't RMD meant to be a role for wing forwards to exploit space? Maybe I misunderstand the whole concept. Nevertheless, this is the thing that bothers me most about FM ME's - everything looks so mechanical. In real life, if you are a wing forward, and you see that 10 yard space in front of you from the corner of the box towards the penalty spot, and your teammate is at the other corner looking for somebody to make that run, no matter what your 'role' is, you just make that run to receive the ball, instead of waiting for the DLF to make a 20 yard run.
  15. First of all, I am still playing FM15, and I know that in FM16 and FM17 the distribution of positions and goals has shifted heavily to low crosses and tap ins that follow. The last two versions are unplayable for me, but that's another subject. So, my questions is to all those FM tactics experts out there: How do you make your Raumdeuters more productive? I remember seeing posts during FM15 times where people had Raumdeuters scoring tons of goals. My Raumdeuters are very efficient in scoring goals, but the problem is that they very seldom get into those positions. A little bacground: I play with a perfectly symmetric 4-1-2-3 GK WB(s) - DC(d) - DC(d) - WB(s) DLP(d) CM(s) - CM(s) RMD(a) - DLF(S) - RMD(a) Previously I was using two BBM at the center mid, but the raumdeuters were barely touching the ball in that formation. After I switched to 2 CM(s) at least they are not that isolated, and getting 30-40 passes each per game. But still, the problem is, in most of my matches, I average 15-20 shots, and the two Raumdeuters typically get 1-2 shots each. Most of the shots are taken by the DLF(s), and the rest by my center midfielders. I did a lot of observation, and saw that the Raumdeuters always keep some defenders busy, and that opens up space at the center, where my DLF and the CM's find plenty of open shots, and I keep winning games, had tremendous success with this tactic. Still, I am just trying to switch things around a little bit, because my tactic simply does not work as I had it envisioned. I want my lone striker to drop deep, and play more like advanced playmaker there, and I want my Raumdeuters to make runs behind the defense without the ball, and be fed with through balls. What really happens though, is that the DLF does drop deep, always gets the ball, and does play through balls to the Raumdeuters (and gets plenty of key passes in the stats sheet that way), but the Raumdeuters most of the time just refuse to dribble the ball a bit and shoot it. Instead, they just dwell on the ball, let the defenders catch them and tackle them, or they drift a little wide and wait for the DLF to make a run into the box, and they become the assister rather than the scorer. They are not even trying to score. This may still be limited information for you guys, but I was wondering what is wrong in this picture. Like I said, my Raumdeuters are still playing good and getting great ratings, but I just want to have a more evenly distributed shot count between my striker and Raumdeuters. Any thoughts?