Football Manager 2020 - Feature Announcement Blogs

[ben carter]

43 minutes ago, Stevicus said:

 

Were you not able to do this prior to the 3D models and then it was removed? mods allowed you to do it in recent years anyway. 

[autohoratio]

4 minutes ago, ben carter said:

Were you not able to do this prior to the 3D models and then it was removed? mods allowed you to do it in recent years anyway. 

Yes, it was previously a feature but it was removed because SI thought their 3D face models were good enough (they weren't), it seems they listened to the many people who expressed their feedback.

[gunner86]

4 hours ago, Bothan Spy said:

I'm pleased that we have finally got a release date. The fact that it's later than previous years is a bit worrying, especially with the lack of match engine videos. But I'm sure they know what they're doing...

I personally feel that SI need to have a 'break' for a year or two and, instead of churning out a new game every November, release a season update and ME tweak. Then when they have done that, they will have longer to concentrate on bringing out a more polished title that they can release in time for next season's start date, and not an annual one that consists of a few minor upgrades and a ropey ME. 

As was pointed out to me in another thread, the reason for the release date being what it is, is the plan was always to release PC, Mac and Stadia simultaneously. 
 

As for your sabbatical suggestion, I can’t see that happening. Without the revenue from yearly releases, SI won’t be able to pay the devs to make these updates.

[Double0Seven]

12 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

As was pointed out to me in another thread, the reason for the release date being what it is, is the plan was always to release PC, Mac and Stadia simultaneously. 
 

As for your sabbatical suggestion, I can’t see that happening. Without the revenue from yearly releases, SI won’t be able to pay the devs to make these updates.

Given that FM is a game that is almost always top 10 in most played steam games every year where even old titles are regularly beating new AAA titles, I would be very surprised if the guys at SI cant pay the bills if they skip a year.  They also have one of the most expensive mobile games and are currently #3 top selling in the play store despite the game being a very toned down version of PC FM.

If this isnt a game that brings in money, then I dont know what game does...

Not saying they should skip a year, but I cant imagine such a successful franchise not having quite some profit. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Double0Seven

[gunner86]

22 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Given that FM is a game that is almost always top 10 in most played steam games every year where even old titles are regularly beating new AAA titles, I would be very surprised if the guys at SI cant pay the bills if they skip a year.  They also have one of the most expensive mobile games and are currently #3 top selling in the play store despite the game being a very toned down version of PC FM.

If this isnt a game that brings in money, then I dont know what game does...

Not saying they should skip a year, but I cant imagine such a successful franchise not having quite some profit. 

But most of this profit is reinvested back into the game, unless Miles and Neil et al are all driving around in Ferraris.

The point is they will have a budget to make the game. That budget is dictated by their previous sales, if you take that year out, by and large you have the same budget but now spread over two years meaning you have half the staff but they have twice as long to do the work. 
I’m not saying they don’t make money, but I think people take the example of games like assassins creed, which took a year out, and assume that will fix all their problems. But in comparison to Ubisoft, SI is very much a one trick pony, they don’t have other franchises. Yes, there’s the mobile version, but I would be surprised if the sales figures for that come anywhere near full FM. And yeah they have Eastside Hockey Manager (I think anyway) but that’s Canada’s problem

[BigV]

5 hours ago, aj6658 said:

Not true - I would say there was big jump from FM18-19 with the whole training add ons and the new tactics was all at once. It wasn't a process. If you are referring to things like social media and the dynamics stuff then yes i agree with your point. My point is that there are pressing issues that have been voiced for YEARS. Good management would prioritise  a set of features instead of adding little by little to small areas of the game. The reason why this is the case is because there is no competition in this market. 

Lets be clear, the game is for the fans and as a fan i have every right to say if the game isn't meeting expectations especially when im expected to pay £40.  Im not here to critique without merit, i want the game to be th best as it it could so any argument to say that im here just for myself has no basis.I am making judgements based on their headline features - this is the sell to consumer to convince them to buy the game- whats changed and whats improved - I given my analysis of the "features".  

My feelings are not alone in this, do you expect all negative criticisms silenced as not to hurt the developers feelings? Thats like saying "oh everyone stop saying glazers out because its hurting their feelings"...

Yes i don't have the  obligation to buy the game but where does that leave me? There is no substitute for this game. Its like saying i like my MacBook air but apple won't improve the screen, i guess i should just be happy then ....

 

It was sure but they're vital towards making it "realistic" and im sure alot of people wanted those. Look I get where your fustration comes from, as a gamer people wants aren't always met and you have to let it go. Now im not telling you to let it go per say but to maybe not be too against the SI considering what they've done over the years and what they've bought us. They don't silence you, first hand i've been on the side of both, just simply stating the features aren't great and then explaining why WHILE being "Nice" would be the useful thing to do. 

There is no subtitute because the market in itself is ran by standards that wouldn't be met by other teams or developers. There's a reason EA backed out. Look the game is good, it has issues sure and everyone is right to voice their opinion but it should never go "too far". It's that simple. Back to the feature thing maybe adding the stuff they did this year is great, we can't make that decision yet. Froom the looks people can make their own opinions sure but they can't crtique it enough to say what it can and can't do. Small areas of the game can make the game alot better trust me. Maybe next year you get what you wanted? is it too late? not neccessarily 

[Cooktin]

On 19/09/2019 at 14:05, Neil Brock said:

As managers around the globe suit up in preparation for the release of Football Manager 2020, we’re proud to show off a series of blogs highlighting some of the biggest features to expect from the latest edition of the award-winning football management series. 

Club Vision

Develop a culture, work with the board to achieve ongoing objectives and plot a course for your club to progress in seasons to come.

Development Centre

An all-encompassing hub that allows you to nurture your young stars through the youth ranks until they’re ready for first-team action.

Playing Time Pathway

Build in current and future playing time across a player’s contract, defining a clear pathway from Fringe Player to Star Player and everything in between.

Backroom Staff

New roles, advice and interaction makes your staff more important than ever and brings the game closer to the structure of a real-life backroom team.

Graphic Improvements

Redesigned player and manager models, improved lighting and overhauled pitch visuals combine to create the best-looking match experience to date.

 

With numerous more features to be announced over the coming weeks, keep an eye on these forums and our Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube for more updates. 

The game can be pre-ordered now with pre-release beta and a 10% early bird discount when doing so from SEGA approved digital retailers.
 

Hey I am a long time player (owned every version since 2007) and I am really looking forward to the 2020 game as this is the first game that I will feature in myself. I am a head of sport science at a club and I was just wondering how the staff attributes are worked out when you have no idea about their history and qualifications.
For example I have a Masters in Sport Science, ASCA accreditation (UKSCA equivalent) and previously have 5 years experience working as a strength and conditioning coach at a sporting academy with youth athletes and 5 years Head of Sport/School.

How is this reflected in the staff attributes section?

[Neil Brock]

1 hour ago, gunner86 said:

But most of this profit is reinvested back into the game, unless Miles and Neil et al are all driving around in Ferraris.

The point is they will have a budget to make the game. That budget is dictated by their previous sales, if you take that year out, by and large you have the same budget but now spread over two years meaning you have half the staff but they have twice as long to do the work. 
I’m not saying they don’t make money, but I think people take the example of games like assassins creed, which took a year out, and assume that will fix all their problems. But in comparison to Ubisoft, SI is very much a one trick pony, they don’t have other franchises. Yes, there’s the mobile version, but I would be surprised if the sales figures for that come anywhere near full FM. And yeah they have Eastside Hockey Manager (I think anyway) but that’s Canada’s problem

Can confirm that I do not own a Ferrari. Our profit is invested back into the game and expanding the team. The latter is something we've been doing for a while. When I joined I think there was probably about 40-50 staff, we're now up to somewhere close to 140 now I believe. And we're trying to recruit even more - at least 7 people just on the dev said of FM - https://www.sigames.com/careers

[Neil Brock]

2 minutes ago, Cooktin said:

Hey I am a long time player (owned every version since 2007) and I am really looking forward to the 2020 game as this is the first game that I will feature in myself. I am a head of sport science at a club and I was just wondering how the staff attributes are worked out when you have no idea about their history and qualifications.
For example I have a Masters in Sport Science, ASCA accreditation (UKSCA equivalent) and previously have 5 years experience working as a strength and conditioning coach at a sporting academy with youth athletes and 5 years Head of Sport/School.

How is this reflected in the staff attributes section?

When we're not aware of relevant information we're likely to give the staff member a relatively random rating suitable for the level of the club they're working at.

If you want to provide specifics to make sure we get things right would suggest emailing scouting@sigames.com.

Thanks. 

[TheInvisibleMan]

5 hours ago, aj6658 said:

If apple came out and said the iPhone 12 has better battery life, face ID works at more angles, its more water resistant and comes in more colours. The stock would take a hit, because those don't warrant the upgrade.  This is my point, the features they have announced as the key headlines are poor.

But are we not at a stage now with FM, like with iPhones, where there's very little 'big' features they can add that aren't already included. It's already a phenomenal game, what more can they do to make it even better besides continually adding smaller features?

The match engine will never look like FIFA, I think we all know and accept that. So besides that I'm unsure as to how they really make this game any more realistic as a football management sim than it already is. It seems to me like SI are now focusing on adding smaller, realistic features to the already fantastic game in order to fine tune it.

It may just be my opinion but for me it's a brilliant game and I'm just not quite sure what huge features they could possibly add that would really improve the game. Maybe SI have some brilliant ideas for future releases that I haven't thought of. We know for a fact they read the feature requests on this forum and discuss/make a decision on putting them in the game. As long as they continue to do that, and add in others that they've come up with themselves, I'm happy for the smaller features to keep coming. You only have to look at the numbers that Miles is mentioning in his Twitter polls just to see how many new features there actually are. 

For me, at the price we pay, FM is great value for money. As long as they keep adding useful and realistic features and not removing anything, I'll continue to buy it 

[aj6658]

7 hours ago, TheInvisibleMan said:

But are we not at a stage now with FM, like with iPhones, where there's very little 'big' features they can add that aren't already included. It's already a phenomenal game, what more can they do to make it even better besides continually adding smaller features?

The match engine will never look like FIFA, I think we all know and accept that. So besides that I'm unsure as to how they really make this game any more realistic as a football management sim than it already is. It seems to me like SI are now focusing on adding smaller, realistic features to the already fantastic game in order to fine tune it.

It may just be my opinion but for me it's a brilliant game and I'm just not quite sure what huge features they could possibly add that would really improve the game. Maybe SI have some brilliant ideas for future releases that I haven't thought of. We know for a fact they read the feature requests on this forum and discuss/make a decision on putting them in the game. As long as they continue to do that, and add in others that they've come up with themselves, I'm happy for the smaller features to keep coming. You only have to look at the numbers that Miles is mentioning in his Twitter polls just to see how many new features there actually are. 

For me, at the price we pay, FM is great value for money. As long as they keep adding useful and realistic features and not removing anything, I'll continue to buy it 

I have never asked for

- New big features 

- FIFA level graphics 

- Youth management 

- The ability to spend my in game salary 

I have called for polish in the game above all else. Focus on the ME have that as the headline feature. So please before anyone responds to me actually read what i have written

- I get annoyed when im playing the game and if my team breaks , my 18 speed stat striker dropping off and ends up in at AM position  and over taken by the player with the ball rather than leading the line which results in the ball carrier being the most advance player.

- I get annoyed when multiple players press the same player when there is no need 

- I get annoyed when some wins a side tackle in or around the box it ends up with the opposition striker - the ball doesn't have enough of its own physics (Alibeit this has improved from previous iterations ) 

- I get annoyed when i have set my instructions to low crosses but it constantly floated in

- If i 6 offers for a player i don't want 6 of the same offers. Theres such a rudimental system in place

- If RM come in for anthony martial who has 18 G+A in 30 apps i want them to go over the £60 value of the player  instead of being capped by it and then walking away for negotiations but spending £45m on a left back they don't need when they already have two potentially starting LB. There seems to be no AI management of prioritising players. I bring it back to real life, is harry maguire worth £80m or is it that there was a need  for him. I have never had a bidding war for a player.

- i Want pressing triggers

- i Want passing formations 

- i just want more in depth tactics and better AI. Thats the core product which has had upgrades, particularly last year the fact we haven't seen ME footage or there been any mention of it so far, so i feel like its gonna be tweaks.

These have been issues for years which have only been incrementally upgraded. Im asking for a year when the ME is the focus, how many years have we been running the same basic engine?

Also Miles twitter

- Upload a photo for your manager (Removing FM17 and adding it back in is not a feature)

- Board send you a message if you win an award -yawn

- Players release from clubs are more likely to join local teams

- Multiple Buyback clauses 

These are the "features" you're so buzzed about? All of these could be done in a winter or summer update but yet we are being asked to fork out £40

YEs i don't have to buy it but like i mentioned before, there isn't a substitute so what do i do? I want the game to improve and we as consumers shouldn't be satisfied with this edition with what they have announced thus far. 

Personally a tick tock system should be in place - Tick - Big new upgrade £50, tock - small upgrade like this years £30 or less because lets be frank what is being delivered this year is nothing more than DLC 

Edited October 17, 2019 by aj6658

[Akasha]

So...Is it necessary to get annoyed (as you said it) about a video game ?

You may have to understand that it's not in one year that all of your hoping features can be achieved in the game. They can't revolutionize everything in on year.

We call all people to be patient and quiet. There's no interest to get annoyed or angry for a game.

There's a difference between what's FM's gamer wants and what's it possible to do for SI.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, aj6658 said:

I want the game to improve and we as consumers shouldn't be satisfied with this edition

How can you be dis-satisfied with a product that's not even out yet? 

[VP.]

So, when we gonna see some match day action?

[Scoham]

I’ve never paid £40+ for FM. Every year it’s available for around £30.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&sa=X&hl=en-gb&biw=375&bih=553&tbm=shop&sxsrf=ACYBGNT2StQgsdjUTrMKxj0fGPUAa2pMDw%3A1571295504464&ei=EBGoXb_oGobRwAL_iJrACA&q=football+manager+2020&oq=footb&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.1.0.41j0l4.15468.17808.0.18327.12.10.1.1.1.0.127.1013.5j5.10.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..3.9.755.3..0i10k1.0.g-aYg45AjWw

[Novem9]

11 часов назад, Double0Seven сказал:

Given that FM is a game that is almost always top 10 in most played steam games every year where even old titles are regularly beating new AAA titles, I would be very surprised if the guys at SI cant pay the bills if they skip a year.  They also have one of the most expensive mobile games and are currently #3 top selling in the play store despite the game being a very toned down version of PC FM.

If this isnt a game that brings in money, then I dont know what game does...

Not saying they should skip a year, but I cant imagine such a successful franchise not having quite some profit. 

Don't forget about SEGA. I sure they have a part of sells as a publisher.

Actually always annoyed that almost all publishers have regional prices in Steam, but not SEGA. Their rights but my right to be annoyed

[XaW]

1 hour ago, aj6658 said:

Im asking for a year when the ME is the focus, how many years have we been running the same basic engine?

Didn't FM17 or so have a totally new ME? Or am I remembering wrong?

1 hour ago, aj6658 said:

i just want more in depth tactics and better AI. Thats the core product which has had upgrades, particularly last year the fact we haven't seen ME footage or there been any mention of it so far, so i feel like its gonna be tweaks.

I think most of us in here on the forum want this, but remember there is also a huge percentage of the players who just want to live the power fantasy of winning everything with their favorite team without a FIFA licence in real life. I mean, I enjoy tinkering with tactics and I spend (too) much time doing all the small things and exploring options to find the small benefits for winning. But a lot just want to press continue and win most games without doing all these thing. Just look at this site and pretty much everywhere else, a lot of users are complaining about how hard the tactics are. There are even loads of tinfoil theories of that the game "wants" the player to lose some games. And SI need to cater to all sides of the dice, not just the one we are sitting on. In addition, Miles (and I think Neil) have stated multiple times that certain aspects needs to be minimized due to the level of hardware used by most costumers. And better AI requires more power, and that is not possible without alienating a substantial number of users with low end specs. FM20 will actually require a 64bit OS/CPU for the first time and that is a small step towards the expectations of better hardware at the end-users which in time will allow SI to make more demanding software.

For what it's worth, I agree with a lot of your points regarding the improvement of the game, but you do come of as very confrontational and with little constructive comments and when you also reject to offer examples than your comments are of little help for improving the game as you would like. Many people in here have posted bug reports and/or suggestions to what they would like to see or see changed in the game, and a lot of those things have been included in a future version. So the devs do listen, and they do want to bring a game most of us want to play. And something that you consider obvious, might not be that obvious to others. Or your error seems identical with someone else's report, but in reality there are two different errors with the same symptoms that are impossible to find out without a good bug report with savegames or pkms.

If you would like to help improving the game and help SI create the game you want to see, I'd advise you to head into the bugs section and post things you feel are faulty or wrong, with examples and following the guidelines. And every suggestion as to how the game can improve are most welcomed in the suggestions sections where SI review everything on a regular basis and add features they want into their own database for new possible features or changes.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, XaW said:

Didn't FM17 or so have a totally new ME? Or am I remembering wrong?

No. Sections of the ME get re-written or reworked, but it's not a completely new ME.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

No. Sections of the ME get re-written or reworked, but it's not a completely new ME.

Yeah, I might have gotten that wrong, but I do remember something about a big re-write around that time... unless I'm way off somehow... I mean, I am getting older. 

[HUNT3R]

8 minutes ago, XaW said:

Yeah, I might have gotten that wrong, but I do remember something about a big re-write around that time... unless I'm way off somehow... I mean, I am getting older. 

It's a while ago, but IIRC, defending in the box (particularly against crosses) needed improvement after FM16, so a lot went into positioning and anticipation of defenders... or something to that effect. FM19 also had big re-writes as the defensive side of the game saw improvements/additions. Defensive width, LOE, counter-pressing etc were added, so the ME regularly gets a lot of work done to it, whether it's specifically announced or not.

[forameuss]

15 hours ago, aj6658 said:

Again haven't played it so can't comment on it but again not the core game and that does matter. You buy products because the core delivers the needs you want from it, anything around it is extra. The core of the game is the in game mechanics, People do not buy FIFA just for story mode, its an add on so its quality is inconsequential. Its like going the iPod nano is great but the games suck...

"to improve is to change, to perfect is to change often" - Churchill and it is true. No system is perfect,  stagnation sets in. They have to change because its becomes stagnant and they are competing with PES. 

People who say that competition argument is short-sighted really don't understand it. i do cos i have an economics degree. If FM had a real competitor things like AI transfers and ME would be on the forefront of what they do because that's the core product. Im not arguing that its just competition before you go off on one but i am saying it is a factor. E.g. UK rail has little real competition meaning prices increase but service is worse.

Again, you're picking something you can't compare 

And it's ironic you trumpet your economics degree as a means of understanding a competition argument.  Do you have one in software development too?  No?  Not that it takes one to realise that the comparisons you're trying to draw really aren't there.  

You know why the competition argument doesn't work?  

1. It would take even a competent developer YEARS (and probably into decades) to even come close to the product that is currently on offer.  The match engine on its own is largely untouchable, and given there aren't all these companies floating around with mature match engines, it would take a stupid amount of time and resources to get something approaching that.  By which time, SI have spent all that time doing the improvements they already do, meaning they'll likely never catch up
2. They've had competition in the past, and they've murdered it.  EA could have thrown millions at the problem, but they decided to just fold the product instead.
3. The argument might have some legs if SI were doing what EA like to do and actually sit there stagnating.  They could release FM with a database update alone and likely still get the same number of sales.  But they don't.  They continually add new features - whether they're major or not - every single year.  Some mythical competition coming in doesn't change that, because...

15 hours ago, aj6658 said:

Yes, well done, making an iPhone is different from making game. You really, really, really, missed the point... My point is that there is a difference between HEADLINE features and other features/updates. I have mentioned several times the updates are welcome but as the only thing we are given a month before release as the key reasons to buy the game this year is laughable. 

"could realistically ask for..." Hrmmm hasn't fixed AI transfers. If i have 6 offers for a player they usually all the same offer. Yes they put in a lot of what could ask for in the game but theres a difference between concept and implementation and improvement. 

If apple came out and said the iPhone 12 has better battery life, face ID works at more angles, its more water resistant and comes in more colours. The stock would take a hit, because those don't warrant the upgrade.  This is my point, the features they have announced as the key headlines are poor.

Being patronising isn't a good look for you.

I didn't miss any point.  There's far more room for new technology in a phone - which, again, isn't comparable in the least - than there is in a decades old game that has already added the vast majority of major features a football management game could have.  

You say the key reasons are "laughable", so go on then, what major features could they have added that wouldn't have been?  Where's this killer app they're missing?

[Novem9]

58 минут назад, XaW сказал:

Yeah, I might have gotten that wrong, but I do remember something about a big re-write around that time... unless I'm way off somehow... I mean, I am getting older. 

Match Engine was improved by making decisions several times better in FM17. As I remember

[HUNT3R]

4 hours ago, aj6658 said:

I have called for polish in the game above all else. Focus on the ME have that as the headline feature. So please before anyone responds to me actually read what i have written

- I get annoyed when im playing the game and if my team breaks , my 18 speed stat striker dropping off and ends up in at AM position  and over taken by the player with the ball rather than leading the line which results in the ball carrier being the most advance player.

- I get annoyed when multiple players press the same player when there is no need 

- I get annoyed when some wins a side tackle in or around the box it ends up with the opposition striker - the ball doesn't have enough of its own physics (Alibeit this has improved from previous iterations ) 

- I get annoyed when i have set my instructions to low crosses but it constantly floated in

- If i 6 offers for a player i don't want 6 of the same offers. Theres such a rudimental system in place

- If RM come in for anthony martial who has 18 G+A in 30 apps i want them to go over the £60 value of the player  instead of being capped by it and then walking away for negotiations but spending £45m on a left back they don't need when they already have two potentially starting LB. There seems to be no AI management of prioritising players. I bring it back to real life, is harry maguire worth £80m or is it that there was a need  for him. I have never had a bidding war for a player.

- i Want pressing triggers

- i Want passing formations 

- i just want more in depth tactics and better AI. Thats the core product which has had upgrades, particularly last year the fact we haven't seen ME footage or there been any mention of it so far, so i feel like its gonna be tweaks.

These have been issues for years which have only been incrementally upgraded. Im asking for a year when the ME is the focus, how many years have we been running the same basic engine?

If you have feature suggestions or (even better) suggestions for new features and ideas on how to implement these features, please raise it here: https://community.sigames.com/forum/680-football-manager-feature-requests/

More ideas can only help. In terms of the ME features you mention, it would be great to have, but an enormous task to implement. Let's take "I want pressing triggers". Firstly, different pressing triggers need to be added and balanced out in the ME so that they work properly. It'll take a huge re-write of thousands and thousands of the 2-3 million lines of code in the ME. Then, there's an AI that needs to learn how to use it properly and ideally, that can't easily be exploited by us using pressing triggers. Then, the ME needs to be balanced across all of the world's leagues in terms of goals scored, passes, realistic results and realistic results for teams, balancing manager attributes and preferences etc.

I'm not saying it cannot be done, but it's not a simple task. That's not even touching on how user friendly something like that would be. What if I'm a casual or semi-casual player? We are seeing things like LoE and defensive width etc added, so it's working toward even more sophistication, sure.

 

4 hours ago, aj6658 said:

Also Miles twitter

- Upload a photo for your manager (Removing FM17 and adding it back in is not a feature)

- Board send you a message if you win an award -yawn

- Players release from clubs are more likely to join local teams

- Multiple Buyback clauses 

These are the "features" you're so buzzed about?

You have to admit, there's been a LOT of these smaller QoL additions this year, and that's just from what has been announced. Keep in mind, these are smaller features that Miles reveals. They're not part of the 'normal' FM announcements. Usually, these features would have been listed under "and many more changes" of an announcement but he's deciding to reveal some of them, which is only a good thing?

4 hours ago, aj6658 said:

All of these could be done in a winter or summer update but yet we are being asked to fork out £40

YEs i don't have to buy it but like i mentioned before, there isn't a substitute so what do i do? I want the game to improve and we as consumers shouldn't be satisfied with this edition with what they have announced thus far. 

Personally a tick tock system should be in place - Tick - Big new upgrade £50, tock - small upgrade like this years £30 or less because lets be frank what is being delivered this year is nothing more than DLC 

You're firstly making an assumption we've only had one announcement revealing headline features and then Miles has revealed smaller features. We don't know anything about the ME or anything else yet and there will have been a lot of work put into the ME, as it is every year.

Second, I'm not sure where you're from (it seems England) but I can buy FM20 off Steam (which isn't the cheapest) at £23.64, so that's even less than the £30 you're prepared to pay for what you call DLC!

If you're not happy with what's been announced so far, I'd say wait to see what more is revealed. Maybe the updated ME will bowl you over, maybe not. If not, you can always wait for a discount at a later stage. 

Edit: I forgot to add - we all want different things. On the forum, we tend to be the more hardcore FM player. We (me included) want a more complex tactical system etc. Maybe there are other features/improvements that's more important as it'll affect more people in a positive way? I've seen calls (on the forum) for international management to be enhanced and people disappointed that it doesn't seem to have seen an overhaul this year. Personally, I don't care about international management at all. So whatever SI do improve every year, they'll make some happy and disappoint others. I don't doubt that they have to make difficult decisions over what can and can't be included for a version.

[gunner86]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

Didn't FM17 or so have a totally new ME? Or am I remembering wrong?

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

No. Sections of the ME get re-written or reworked, but it's not a completely new ME.

Wasn't it FM17 where they doubled the amount of calculations per second?

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

Wasn't it FM17 where they doubled the amount of calculations per second?

Indeed:

 

[Rashidi]

Personally speaking from what i have gathered from the headline features and the smaller reveals thus far, i am impressed for several reasons.

1. Firstly SI are using the FM community of creators at large to publicise these reveals, this is a good sign and bodes well for the future. I haven't seen something like this by any developer in a long time. 
2. Initially i was disappointed by Stadia, not because i think its useless, but because in my country its not available. I can see its benefits especially when one considers the fact that i have a 100' screen just itching to play FM at home without a PC. So eyes with envy made me rage. Regardless of what others might think of Stadia, its the future of gaming and streaming.
3. FM19 was a big step forward, what it lacked is being made up with by a host of QOL changes that I am looking forward to. Code of Conduct for one, managing player development via these pathways, being able to manage their expectations in ways that felt limited in FM19.
4. Playing time pathways could make hoarding of high potential players an issue for clubs which is nice, it also opens up the potential along with Club Vision for better youth development in the long run. This has long been one of my hopes for the game. While it may not happen immediately, the building blocks are there which bodes well for the future.
5. There are plenty of smaller reveals like player statuses, the new role which definitely leads me to believe changes are coming for the match engine. Frankly they make changes to the code each year.
6. I see QOL changes everywhere, while it may not be exciting for some, for a person who averages 3k hours per season, anything that adds to QOL improvement is an added bonus.

It's too early to venture a guess about the match engine, but the lads are not the sort to be happy with any version of engine they release. They are continuously looking to improve and upgrade it and are willing to listen to people who make reasoned arguments for why certain elements of the game should be improved. Case in point the sheer number of blocked crosses for some people in FM19 and the lack of final third movement. I doubt  the game will make everyone happy, I for one have already ordered my game, because the QOL improvements alone suggest that they  are taking FM19 and enhancing the quality of my experience playing the game. And if i can play both narrow and wide systems in FM20 equally as well, then I am not going to regret it. 

[tyro]

I have a similar opinion as Rashidi on this.

Google Stadia not available in my country, unfortunately. FM is basically the only game I play anymore at this point in life due to family and work but using Stadia would be great from the looks of it. Now, if you see the games that will be released with Stadia and you see Football Manager 2020 as one of them, you can see how high they climbed, also in popularity outside the base fans.

Unfortunately, I did not get to play FM19 that much due to time constraints, but for me, if they smooth out some things and add some things as they have announced, things that aren't flashy but they improve the game as a whole, then I am happy. I mean, we pay around EUR 40 to EUR 50 for the game and even if you play 50 hours on it, that is EUR 1 per hour played. That's a great return for any game. And usually, 50 hours is on the low side, even for me. I averaged 300 to 400 hours on previous versions (FM19 an exception).

It is a bit delayed this year but they also need to make sure this works with Stadia and all these other platforms, so it seems much more complicated and multi-faceted to make sure that people with different access points can play this. Also, they want to make sure to release a version they can say, yes, this I can release. With today's time, where everything has to be fast, there is not much time to make sure the game is perfect. Even the super-big release games come with major bugs. But many of the times those big games don't have people listening to their players and adding features based on request. They just ignore you and cash in EUR 60 a year.

You want to have the perfect game released for beta? It just won't happen. It's just not reasonable. But they can release a version they are happy with. And then go from there. You want it available on PC, Stadia, Tablets, Switch, etc. but don't want to wait? Well, it won't happen. You do need to learn some patience, if you want certain benefits. This is just how life goes and despite us getting emails or messages or news now by the second, people still need to develop a game and this takes time. 

These guys from what I have seen in the past years, try to make the best they can. They don't get "complacent" because there is no competition. They could care less. They have their own motivation and their own goals, which is why the competition could not keep up with the quality and in depth nature of this game.

This is why I am personally looking forward to FM20. I know people like to jump and complain about things so quickly but it is sometimes not that difficult to take a breather and say, wow, thank you guys for what you did. If possible, it would even be better if....

... and not just say, OMG FKAKJSKLJF you guys didn't release it in May or you released it but I played 5 minutes and the goalkeeper doesn't do XYZ OMGGGGAgag!!!! ... or oh, you didn't add Purple shoes to the game even though I asked for it in thread 105 down on page 6....

Breathe...think...see the value you are getting and the quality compared to what is out there...and appreciate it... Constructive criticism and additional feedback is always welcome by these guys from what I have seen. Reasonable requests are always welcome and they listen. But anything unsubstantiated and speculation is just useless and jumping the gun.

Maybe I am getting old but we can all do with more positiveness, especially since for me, I am playing a game to switch off from the real world and enjoy being a FOOTBALL MANAGER and this is the only game that comes close enough.

 

 

 

[Double0Seven]

25 minutes ago, tyro said:

... and not just say, OMG FKAKJSKLJF you guys didn't release it in May or you released it but I played 5 minutes and the goalkeeper doesn't do XYZ OMGGGGAgag!!!! ... or oh, you didn't add Purple shoes to the game even though I asked for it in thread 105 down on page 6....

 

Perhaps it would be interesting when the demo releases to just run seasons on vacation and see the final stats to compare with real life ones. Much more realistic than watching games yourself and drawing subjective conclusions from moments of the ME. If you see for example that the average amount of goals a game is significantly higher, you can at least draw some conclusion that something is going wrong. Much better than "wow I saw 5 minutes of goals in my ME its broken dasdaOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!".

Edited October 17, 2019 by Double0Seven

[XaW]

28 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Perhaps it would be interesting when the demo releases to just run seasons on vacation and see the final stats to compare with real life ones. Much more realistic than watching games yourself and drawing subjective conclusions from moments of the ME. If you see for example that the average amount of goals a game is significantly higher, you can at least draw some conclusion that something is going wrong. Much better than "wow I saw 5 minutes of goals in my ME its broken dasdaOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!".

SI does this already, a lot! They won't release the game until their soak tests show similar results to real life (except for injuries, which are toned down to about 20% less than real life, i think). Of course, they do this without user input, so if you get different results when you play, then the difference is mostly based around your decision, as well as some slight randomization.

[Neil Brock]

54 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Perhaps it would be interesting when the demo releases to just run seasons on vacation and see the final stats to compare with real life ones. Much more realistic than watching games yourself and drawing subjective conclusions from moments of the ME. If you see for example that the average amount of goals a game is significantly higher, you can at least draw some conclusion that something is going wrong. Much better than "wow I saw 5 minutes of goals in my ME its broken dasdaOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!".

 

23 minutes ago, XaW said:

SI does this already, a lot! They won't release the game until their soak tests show similar results to real life (except for injuries, which are toned down to about 20% less than real life, i think). Of course, they do this without user input, so if you get different results when you play, then the difference is mostly based around your decision, as well as some slight randomization.

Yeah we run thousands upon thousands of seasons to work out the average (across multiple leagues as well, as each league has slightly different tendencies) then compare those with real life figures. That's not just goals per game, that's as many stats as you can imagine. Pass completion, shots off woodwork, yellow cards, fouls, tackles - nearly everything. We want to make the ME as accurate as possible from a statistical perspective whilst also making the type of action which appears in game as realistic as real life. Obviously if we had the correct number of shots and goals per game, but all the shots were from exactly the same place then it'd be a very poor ME! As you can imagine it's a huge balancing act but as I've said on this forums a number of times, we're all massive fans of football and the game itself, so we're all as invested as you are. Many late nights and analysis which would fill a thousand chalkboards during development. 

We always feel like we're taking steps forward with each match engine and we've got some great people within that team working on it. Always blows my mind thinking about how difficult it would be to recreate a perfect football match where every defender, attacker and keeper always makes the right choice with the right technique - then essentially have it so mistakes happen as decided by so many variants like attributes, weather conditions and the like. But I know some of the logic and changes which have gone in 'under the hood' over the years and it really has come forward so much. It's just frustrating when the balance is almost perfect from a statistical basis but there are noticeable anomalies in how the match actually plays. So we keep working and striving to iron them out. 

And we're hopeful you'll be able to see it all for yourself soon of course. 

[BigV]

12 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Always blows my mind thinking about how difficult it would be to recreate a perfect football match where every defender, attacker and keeper always makes the right choice with the right technique

I think what people fail to realise is the amount of error within the game in comparison to reality. IMO for me when i was younger the attributes say someone whos older and their mental stats were top class id expect them to be doing everything right simply because they are better than the opposition mentally and can read the game better and do what needs to be done. What it doesnt account for is the team and the the individuals not doing their part and you could say its pretty close within the game now. I know people say the pressing thing of 2 players press the same player was a bug but sometimes it wouldn't have been simply because of the decisions from the individuals especially at the start of the game when they're getting used to the tactics and formation along with their roles. 

For me at times I think what we see as a "bug" or something happening constantly the factor of it actually happening due to attributes and match factors (as you said grass, weather etc.) is quite succeptable to happening in general. I noticed the touch of lukaku is poor in reality but at times he can pull a stunner and in the game that's what happens sometimes. Honestly it's pretty close than people imagine or even try to, can only thank the team of how close it actually is rather than critising for such a big game with little margin of error. 

[Sheriff7]

 

[aj6658]

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

Again, you're picking something you can't compare 

And it's ironic you trumpet your economics degree as a means of understanding a competition argument.  Do you have one in software development too?  No?  Not that it takes one to realise that the comparisons you're trying to draw really aren't there.  

Oh jesus, It fitting your picture is of doofus rick. Im using an analogy, here read up

https://examples.yourdictionary.com/analogy-ex.html

And “it's ironic you trumpet your economics degree as a means of understanding a competition argument”- yes, I do … Its literally taught so um, yeah, I do use it as a means of understanding competition 

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

You know why the competition argument doesn't work?  

1. It would take even a competent developer YEARS (and probably into decades) to even come close to the product that is currently on offer.  The match engine on its own is largely untouchable, and given there aren't all these companies floating around with mature match engines, it would take a stupid amount of time and resources to get something approaching that.  By which time, SI have spent all that time doing the improvements they already do, meaning they'll likely never catch up

Lets break down what you said. I am talking about the concept of competition youre talking about feasibility. My argument is that if there was competition it drives businesses to reinvest aggressively and forces progess. 

Im going use the iphone analogy again – Before the Iphone came out the phone market is unrecognisable because phone makers were competitive but happy with their little incremental upgrades- smaller frames,  full keyboards (e.g. blackberry) and ones that did introduce touchscreens before apple like the Palm were terrible.  Then the iphone came and there was an explosion of innvoation because the competition got fierce. Look at blackberry they couldn’t compete because they were used to having the business market cornered but couldn’t progress since the iphone and now are basically gone. Look at what competition has brought along, iphone had a finger print scanner, Samsung put in under the screen, iphone moved to FaceID. Is there any reason why this would happen in such a short space of time other than competition?

 

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

1. They've had competition in the past, and they've murdered it.  EA could have thrown millions at the problem, but they decided to just fold the product instead.

True and the reasoning for that is because there are two markets – Germany and the UK. The market is also dominated by FM. Again another analogy with Iphone. I use my phone for texts, internet and photos all of which I can argue is mmuch better value for money with android yet I stick with apple. Why? Because the brand and the goodwill attached. People dont like change. Making it difficult for people to compete, im not saying creating competition is easy but “murdering” it has a few more layers to it

 

Again I flex my economics degree, EA is a global company, it doesn’t make sense to invest so much in such a niche market. Why do you think niche markets are dominated by much smaller players? Because bigger players demand a return on investment which the football management market cannot achieve, it may be profitable but there are better areas to invest in.

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

1. The argument might have some legs if SI were doing what EA like to do and actually sit there stagnating.  They could release FM with a database update alone and likely still get the same number of sales.  But they don't.  They continually add new features - whether they're major or not - every single year.  Some mythical competition coming in doesn't change that, because...

Your arguments has no legs. I have pointed out in my first post how out of the 4 headline features, 3 I believe are rehashs of things that are already in the game. As I have explained competition would make a difference – it doesn’t take an economics degree to understand that if your survival depended on improving more than your competitor it would have an effect….

 

The ME is a decade old, it may not have the same code from 2009 but the ideas and framework is still the same. Theres only so much you can rejig and add onto to the engine before its become restrictive. IF they had competition then they would invested much more into to update it. Example the Halo series from Halo 5 and the next gen halo have has new engine, why? Because the current one isn’t capable in implementing all the new technology and ideas that they want so they rethought it with new tech and ideas so to compete with other games which engines can support more advanced processes 

 

Thank you for attending my ted talk. 

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

Being patronising isn't a good look for you.

I didn't miss any point.  There's far more room for new technology in a phone - which, again, isn't comparable in the least - than there is in a decades old game that has already added the vast majority of major features a football management game could have.  

You say the key reasons are "laughable", so go on then, what major features could they have added that wouldn't have been?  Where's this killer app they're missing?

Rebuttel- you definitely missed the point and See definition of an analogy and the above economics lesson 

Again I have not argued for a killer app. I have said polish. What I have argued for this edition is that the HEADLINE features, the features to convince me that I should upgrade seems to be stuff that has already been in the game. I have always wanted issues that have persisted for years to be be addressed. This years game seems to me more of dlc that could be done in a summer update. Just look at the “features”miles posts on twitter. 

Im not asking for the wheel to be changed yearly. I am saying the the annoyed HEADLINE features are very underwhelming and that this years release looks like FM19.5 and because of that i disagree with the retail price 

[themadsheep2001]

@aj6658 and @forameuss please take this to your PMs as its not hugely relevant and is simply clogging up the thread

[Sheriff7]

 

[TheInvisibleMan]

Just now, Sheriff7 said:

 

Intrigued to see how many of these there'll be come release day.

[kandersson]

Don't care much for these special editions (I already pre-ordered the standard version and frankly would prefer if all new licenses were in the 'normal' game) but I like that the old ''tries tricks'' PPM/trait is back 

[SazoJohnno]

Anyone spotted the mention of "Sponsor: expected extra" on that Valencia FM20 announcement tweet? 

I can only imagine at this point what it can mean, do it means we get to interact with the sponsors more? Do our performance affect the sponsorships a lot more this year? One can only wait and see.  

[TheInvisibleMan]

20 minutes ago, SazoJohnno said:

Do our performance affect the sponsorships a lot more this year?

I would imagine it's this, but that's a good spot and it will be interesting to see what it entails.

Be great if sponsors reacted to your success on the pitch, like more interest from sponsors if you do well and vice versa.

[KiLLu12258]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Sheriff7:

 

what is the difference to the normal version?

[Mr U Rosler]

FM20 Stockport County edition....... Pretty please? 

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, kandersson said:

 I like that the old ''tries tricks'' PPM/trait is back 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Svenc

[kandersson]

3 minutes ago, Svenc said:

 

I had Marco Verratti doing this all the time 

[Bakiano]

Finally some positive comments about FM20  

[Neil Brock]

I've added all the feature tweets which have come from the FM social channel here for easy reference - https://community.sigames.com/topic/494725-football-manager-2020-feature-round-up/

These don't include those also tweeted by Miles as there's loads  

[TioPatinhax]

Just a quick question, is the new European COmpetition announced by UEFA in FM20?

[gunner86]

26 minutes ago, TioPatinhax said:

Just a quick question, is the new European COmpetition announced by UEFA in FM20?

There's been no confirmation yet.

It depends if enough information was made available with enough time to create it properly with testing etc.

[Viking]

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

 

Oh. This takes me back. I hope we'll see stuff like that in FM20.

[RandomGuy.]

I'm enjoying the "features" announced so far, I agree its stretching some of them to be advertising them as if they're knew, as a lot are simply things that have been made easier to find.

The board "five year plan", and wee bits along those lines, like players keeping on field relationships with other players, will add a lot to long term saves.

[janrzm]

Just pre-ordered.

Where I'm at - 

I can't understand any argument around the cost of the game. It will always be the best value for money entertainment you can buy when you compare cost vs hr's of playing time (fun....) no brainer.

I understand people having a groan about features and improvements they'd like to see, I don't understand anyone dismissing something because it's not important to them. Everyone sees and plays the game slightly differently, live and let live, get over it.

The move towards enhancing long term saves is so welcome, anything that adds detail and difference between saves is a huge positive.

It's clear to me that Stadia has put a drain on resources at Si this year but hopefully there are still some surprises yet to be announced, any improvements to the ME and tactics would be appreciated.

Bottom line, regardless of how I'm feeling about the game I'm always confident in the knowledge that there a people working on it that have those same feelings and a desire to improve it.

Edited October 17, 2019 by janrzm