roykela Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Do not like the first look on the tactical screen. Thought the FM15 was horrible, and i still think so. I completely ignore the tactics screen as it is extremely unfriendly, from my own point of view of course. Apart from actually setting my tactics up, when i have to be there. This does not look better for me. I think it looks even worse than the current one. I really miss FM14's tactics screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsch Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 it seems it will stay same - since someone asked gaffer Miles Jacobson & he says current one improves "usability": https://twitter.com/OllieDS/status/640923701958066176 Sounds par for the course. They really need to hire a PR guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted September 7, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2015 Do not like the first look on the tactical screen. Thought the FM15 was horrible, and i still think so. I completely ignore the tactics screen as it is extremely unfriendly, from my own point of view of course. Apart from actually setting my tactics up, when i have to be there.This does not look better for me. I think it looks even worse than the current one. I really miss FM14's tactics screen. Some people like them, some don't. With something like this it's never going to be to everyone's taste. There's certain screens in the game that personally I don't like and if I could would change, but I'm not a designer nor a functionality expert. I quite like AFC Wimbledon's green kit, some people think it's absolutely rank. If it's wrong get the demo or the beta forum and let us know why you think it's wrong. Be clear and constructive and we'll listen. We don't mind people giving their opinions as that's exactly what they're for. We just draw the line on personal attacks which a few people have done in this thread quite thinly veiled. Not saying you specifically have by the way, just to clarify. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted September 7, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sounds par for the course. They really need to hire a PR guy. Why would he not defend something he believes in? Sports Interactive have a number of people including Miles who communicate directly with the people who play our games, through social media and the forums so please don't throw around such pithy comments. Everyone who works incredibly hard on the game deserves more respect than comments like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Sounds par for the course. They really need to hire a PR guy. In the actual game I'm sure there'll be more space between them due to bigger screen sizes. Also, the reason why he says it is for usability is because it is true. People want as much info as possible in the least clicks possible. If I was going to make one change it would be to take the player numbers off and center the circle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grade Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 For first impression it is not winning me over. In fact is making me run away. Now, functionality is an entirely different aspect, that should be valuated during the demo. But honestly design wise, not winning me over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsch Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Why would he not defend something he believes in? Sports Interactive have a number of people including Miles who communicate directly with the people who play our games, through social media and the forums so please don't throw around such pithy comments. Everyone who works incredibly hard on the game deserves more respect than comments like that. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure they do a great job. It's just that Miles has a habit of being very direct. In my experience, successful companies (like SI is becoming) tend to want to project a friendly image regardless of whether criticism is fair or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawlore Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm inclined to agree with dsch's point about FM14 being superior. It looks as though the trend in both FM15 and FM16 is towards having more space and less information, presumably to work better on touchscreens where things need to be clicked and dragged- doing so would certainly make it easier. As someone who doesn't, however, play on a touchscreen, the FM14 is clearly a more useful layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 FM 14's tactics panel, combined with the player icons moving up or down depending on role from 15 would be ideal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerud Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I was very much a fan of the FM14 tactical screen as well. I got used to FM15, but the usability was definitely not a favourite. The FM16 screen shot on a low-res does it no favours. I'd be interested to see a high-res shot so I have a better comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric1000 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Anyone else get the 'FM meets Minecraft' vibe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsch Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Anyone else get the 'FM meets Minecraft' vibe? I'd play that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake Appeal Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 SI should look long and hard at why Microsoft had to pivot so abruptly from Windows 8 to Windows 10. When sitting at their desktop, people want to use a mouse to interact with desktop software in a familiar, mouse-driven way. They absolutely do not want to use a mouse in place of their finger. Trying to straddle mouse and touch (and reducing information and interactions in the process) is part of why Microsoft are giving Windows 10 away for free right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusander Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I don't really like it either, although it's only the first impression and at a very low resolution. In the worst case scenario it can be changed with a skin, so that won't be a major problem for me. I can't even remember when I have used a default skin apart from the first 2 weeks after the release. I can see the new look being very useful on tablets or any other touchscreen device, but on a desktop computer it's a big no-no for me and I'll change it myself if it remains as it looks in the pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdiatmh Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Just my thoughts: I think you'll have problems if you choose to play 5 in a line (space issues) and then some space issues if you have an AMC MC and DM all central, rather than off-centre (so an AMCL, MCR and DM would be fine imo) and yes, I'd like to see some screenshots that aren't in a 800*600 resolution, give me a 1920*1080 anyday I want the screenshots to show what it's truly capable of, rather than the bear minimum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasilli07 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I hope FMC doesn't use that. We FMC players have less than 5 skins. Correct me if anyone found more for FM 15. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I'd agree with the majority that the tactics screen looks awful. And just to be clear, I'm talking about UI design, NOT functionality. I feel like SI have gone backwards with the design in FM15 and FM16, at least as far as the tactics screen is concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobrt Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I just hope the FM series does not go by way of other titles and reduce the graphics and gameplay to the mobile or non-PC platform levels. What concerns me is the fact the game is 10 weeks from release which means it must have gone through the majority of beta testing and there is no higher resolution examples. IMO, regardless of resolution or not, I will say the tactics screen from FM2015 appear far more professional looking, functional, and aesthetically pleasing than what has been presented for FM2016. I believe the tactics screenshot from FM2016 would be best suited for the touch and mobile versions exclusively, and a far more advanced tactics screen should remain with the PC version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababui Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Hmm, are you suggesting a player on a average raring of 8.21 from his last 5 games isnt important information on team selection and who is actually in form and who is not? With real human beings it would be an important stat; with FM players I doubt that form is takin into account in the match engine. Please correct me if I am wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababui Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Some people like them, some don't. With something like this it's never going to be to everyone's taste. There's certain screens in the game that personally I don't like and if I could would change, but I'm not a designer nor a functionality expert. Perhaps make a 14ish a 15ish and the new one available at game setup and let each set of users choose. It would be quite easy to implement. Choice is good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababui Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 FM 14's tactics panel, combined with the player icons moving up or down depending on role from 15 would be ideal. We have a winner!! BTW, and unrelated, Neil Brock is a PR guy so sorry Neil about that post. He does an excellent job. If only there were a few Neil Brocks in the UI department. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 FM15 tactic screen was perfect. I don't know why would you replace something good looking with this!? The shirts on FM15 look great, also the green circle was way much better looking than this pizza thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababui Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 FM15 tactic screen was perfect. I don't know why would you replace something good looking with this!? The shirts on FM15 look great, also the green circle was way much better looking than this pizza thing. My issues with 15: We cant change player roles on the pitch screen There are fewer options were to position players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Os Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I think moving away from the shirt shaped icons to blocks is a mistake. There is something authentic about having the shirt icons on the pitch green background. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TQ13PS Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I don't like the blocks as I prefer the shirt images, as we are only commenting on a single screenshot how are we sure that there isn't an option to flick between blocks and shirts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatecoatedballs Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 It looks horrible and seems to be going more simple rather than complex! I really dislike the look of it, I hope it's just beta shimmozle, I will stick to 15 till Jan and see what it's like. I mean it's meant to be football manager, what the hell does that say in relation to tactics? I know the English think the border stops at them when football is concerned, ever question why you don't go far in WC, or why your best coaches are from other countries? If this is innovation in English tactics, I can understand why! You should be looking at new (contemporary apps) to copy from like - http://www.effmatch.com/index.php?lang=en I have seen a lot of games decrease in complexity and grey matter thought process, but I didn't expect football manager to follow, in what should be an intrinsic point in the game such as tactics. Like I said, I will wait to Jan. but if it looks like that, I will not buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dllu Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I generally prefer light text on dark background, because it strains my eyes much less, especially late in the evening when the computer screen is often the brightest source of light around. Here's an idea: Turn on the light... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatecoatedballs Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Jesus, seems like it's a go ahead then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The new tactics screen looks to me like its been designed for tablet, and not for desktop. Information seems oversized, suggesting its for a touch screen and not a mouse. (I'm a desktop/tablet designer myself). Not having the full list of the starting eleven players viewable on the screen might cause issues (having to scroll down to pick your team). The position/role/duty is duplicated on screen on the left, and shown again on the pitch. I don't think it needs to be shown twice in the same screen. I don't see the advantage of the big blocks on the pitch, rather than the shirts from last year, for me it doesn't look as nice visually. (looks a bit naive) I also think that morale needs to be displayed in the list on the left. When I first saw this screen shot, I thought it was for the tablet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatecoatedballs Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Most people who are active on social networks are U23's, after that you usually have a life! As FM is pretty much the only game I play now, I don't want you to cater to the playstation generation, I want it to be about football and all it's complexities, tell me this has made tactics more complex? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIR669 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Final FM15 tactics screen where you could see and change player roles was great. FM14 was even better, it looked sleek and it was extremely functional, showing basically everything you need to know in that moment: position familiarity, player name, role, duty and condition, morale plus AvR. For me it was the best tactics screen so far. Then they decided to change it for FM15, increasing kit size and adding squad number (totally useless) but it looked great by changing position familiarity and player strength compared to other players in his position, both being represented in that circle above the kit. It lacked role and duty in the beginning which was a problem and it was added shorty after. In the end, this was the result: And it also looked great. Now it looks like you pick a kit to play in starting XI. FM Classic has that look, with everything being put in colored boxes, and there is a box even on player profile, just like the one on FM16 tactics screen. It looks good there, but there is absolutely no point of adding it in normal mode. Please consider removing that awful box on PC. On touch screen it will be an awesome addition because you could select the desired player far more easily. But in normal mode on PC, which I believe most of us play, it looks bad and makes that screen look way overcrowded. Also I don't see why there's no pitch texture anymore, now it's just plain green. Some things can stay the same for two years in a row, nobody will panic or criticize you for lack of work... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatecoatedballs Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 SI should look long and hard at why Microsoft had to pivot so abruptly from Windows 8 to Windows 10. When sitting at their desktop, people want to use a mouse to interact with desktop software in a familiar, mouse-driven way. They absolutely do not want to use a mouse in place of their finger. Trying to straddle mouse and touch (and reducing information and interactions in the process) is part of why Microsoft are giving Windows 10 away for free right now. I think this is the driving force, as they have their touch screen/pad version, it's cheaper to streamline, as with windows. Apple where able to make it so far, but Jobbs advertising and charisma where a phenomenon, he could make pythons a perfect gift for your first born.. Even if now Apple is mostly made of PC parts (sold expensively), people buy into hype and trends, rather than rationalisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdiatmh Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 pythons a perfect gift for your first born you mean they're not? oh, this makes my baby shower present for my sister awkward :| Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What a shame. what an absolute shame.. It seems Miles was a little offended too. i just dont get it.. He says usability but i dont see it... What is improved? how is it improved? shed some light someone please... It seems to me this year they focused more on aesthetics than the core engine. So we're now complaining about usability without actually being able to, you know, USE it? Gets worse every year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr_7 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I dont care what it looks like. As long as I can select my team from the tactics screen using right click just like FM14 then i'm happy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Some people like them, some don't. With something like this it's never going to be to everyone's taste. There's certain screens in the game that personally I don't like and if I could would change, but I'm not a designer nor a functionality expert. I quite like AFC Wimbledon's green kit, some people think it's absolutely rank. If it's wrong get the demo or the beta forum and let us know why you think it's wrong. Be clear and constructive and we'll listen. We don't mind people giving their opinions as that's exactly what they're for. We just draw the line on personal attacks which a few people have done in this thread quite thinly veiled. Not saying you specifically have by the way, just to clarify. Oh, absolutely. It's all about individual taste. I also understand the clarification, as some can go way too far with their critiscism, going into personal attacks and all that. That's just not right. So far i can only go by first impression, which isn't a good one. Being the FM-aholic i am i will most likely participate in the Beta-testing and i will have a better understanding and feeling when i've actually tried it. If it is similar and close to FM15's tactics screen, in functionality, i'll probably do the same again this year and ignore the tactics screen altogether, apart from when i have to use it. But, as mentioned, the only way to find out for real is to actually try it. I hope it's better than it seems. Of course, that's just from my point of view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
howhigh1337 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I don't like new tactics screen aswell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarian Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I don't get the hate for the aesthetics of the screen. I just hope it's usability is a massive improvement over FM15 tactics screen. I hated it so much that after playing the demo for about 20 hours FM15 became the first version of CM/FM I didn't buy. Some of the problems I had might of been my now ancient PC, but it is still miles over the minimum spec and without checking I think over the recommended spec. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmithRFC Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Can't say I'm personally a fan, looks more like it should be a screenshot for FM Classic. If it stays, which I imagine it will, I'll just get used to it - I'm sure it'll play better than it looks anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Really need to see a high res version of it. Not a fan of blocks instead of shirts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverReveal666 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 So on the FM 16 tactic screen we will have to scroll down to see the rest of the first 11 and subs? Up to FM 15 I never had any problem with any of the previous FM's UI, I always found it sleek and user friendly. FM 15 did improve a bit with patches but it seems to have regressed again. Big fonts and solid blocks of colour and a scroll bar if you want to see beyond 8 players. I would love to see all the complaints about the UI from FM 14 which made SI change things up, I used the forums search facility but couldn't find any... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 So on the FM 16 tactic screen we will have to scroll down to see the rest of the first 11 and subs? That's because of the low resolution of the computer the screenshot was taken on. That's what FM15 is like on those machines as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not a fan of blocks instead of shirts. Aesthetically, I prefer the shirts too. Looking at the screens though, FM15 showed only the positional suitability. The new FM16 screen still shows that, with the added role suitability in the pizza wheel/grapefruit/whatever. That might help me appreciate it in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 That's already in FM15. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic_Defender Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I can see this thread getting closed sooner rather than later.its going nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 That's already in FM15. So it is I was looking at dsch's screenshot comparison. Then I still prefer the shirts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassistuk Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 I can see this thread getting closed sooner rather than later.its going nowhere. And where do you think we were going? Just discussing why we dont like the new tactics screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverReveal666 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 That's because of the low resolution of the computer the screenshot was taken on. That's what FM15 is like on those machines as well. Okay fair enough. Maybe releasing some screenshots from high res computers as well low would have helped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talhak Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Aesthetically, I prefer the shirts too.Looking at the screens though, FM15 showed only the positional suitability. The new FM16 screen still shows that, with the added role suitability in the pizza wheel/grapefruit/whatever. That might help me appreciate it in the long run. since role selection is already on the same screen just near to pitch; I do not think it is an issue. At least, the same design can be used with addition to selecting roles on the pitch formation - just like FM14 which looks a lot more modern & organized on the pitch preview. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkee91 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Did we not get rid of the sidebar in previous versions of Football Manager because people preferred the top bar. I played about 2 hours of last years FM because i felt the UI was to arcadey. I prefer FM 2014 UI please please please allow us to switch between 2 user interfaces. I prefer lots of data on my tactics screen than it being dumbed down, feels more management simulator than fifa simulator. If nothing changes with the UI i will once again be passing on FM this year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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