Luizinho Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Final FM15 tactics screen where you could see and change player roles was great. FM14 was even better, it looked sleek and it was extremely functional, showing basically everything you need to know in that moment: position familiarity, player name, role, duty and condition, morale plus AvR. For me it was the best tactics screen so far.Then they decided to change it for FM15, increasing kit size and adding squad number (totally useless) but it looked great by changing position familiarity and player strength compared to other players in his position, both being represented in that circle above the kit. It lacked role and duty in the beginning which was a problem and it was added shorty after. In the end, this was the result: And it also looked great. Now it looks like you pick a kit to play in starting XI. FM Classic has that look, with everything being put in colored boxes, and there is a box even on player profile, just like the one on FM16 tactics screen. It looks good there, but there is absolutely no point of adding it in normal mode. Please consider removing that awful box on PC. On touch screen it will be an awesome addition because you could select the desired player far more easily. But in normal mode on PC, which I believe most of us play, it looks bad and makes that screen look way overcrowded. Also I don't see why there's no pitch texture anymore, now it's just plain green. Some things can stay the same for two years in a row, nobody will panic or criticize you for lack of work... This is a great post and echoes my thoughts/concerns! When I first saw the screenshot I was certain it was for FM Classic, as I felt it looked Arcade-esque. I don't believe it looks partically 'ugly' or 'grotesque' but I just don't think it suits the 'normal' game mode's brand/style/look. I think the developers should build on what FM14 did, stylish yet simple Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawlore Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Yes, it looks different and people may not like it at first glance, but in this thread people are praising the FM15 tactics UI after it was panned on release. To be fair, it took a long time for the FM15 tactics UI to even work properly- there were a lot of issues with disappearing columns that lasted much longer than they should've, and that's before considering aesthetics. And, even when we were finally shown role/duty information on the pitch with whichever late patch it was, it is still (in my estimation) a step backwards from FM14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavessi Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Wow this is truly awful. Please just stop what you are trying to do and think again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grade Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Genuine question: Would you prefer an aesthetically stunning but functionally poor UI over a functional but "grotesque, ugly, eye sore" UI? I want both Aesthetically pleasing and functional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOODNAME Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 This is so ugly.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 A reminder to please elaborate and be constructive rather than lob in curt detail free one liners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavessi Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 A reminder to please elaborate and be constructive rather than lob in curt detail free one liners. I strongly dislike what I am seeing with the look of fm16. It is childish, dated, ugly and more befitting of a free to play mobile game. Not at all appropriate for what I would like to see in a football manager game. I would like to see a return to the UI from fm14 thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cata89 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I strongly dislike what I am seeing with the look of fm16. It is childish, dated, ugly and more befitting of a free to play mobile game. Not at all appropriate for what I would like to see in a football manager game.I would like to see a return to the UI from fm14 thanks. Same here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_france Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Don't like it either, Way too big, the pitch is not "breathing" this way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsch Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Likewise the position of the players is now reflected better than previous versions by their positions show on the pitch - however the downside of this is that we can't have 'shirts' as opposed to the icons you seen in the screenshot. That's not to say you won't still get the shirts in other parts of the game where the formation screen is shown, such as the pre-match screen or the match formations during the match environment. Does this mean the way the positions move up and down the field by minuscule amounts? It's an idea that did work because a) it's really hard to tell exactly how far up an icon is because the differences are so small, b) the perceived location of an icon is affected by its position relative to other icons (a DLF would seem to move deeper if his partner shifts from CF-S to P), c) different instructions with different roles end up in approximately the same place (AMC-A and DLF-S), and d) it's unintuitive because the differences in roles do not translate to simply being positioned higher or deeper on the field. All of this was part of the reason that actual role information was added back to the pitch view.So if it allegedly functions well now, how do the improvements address these problems from before? It is not entirely obvious how making the icons breadloaf-shaped and very big addresses these problems. So if it's supposed to look bad in order to function well, can anyone think of how that squares with the dysfunction of the same concept last year? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I strongly dislike what I am seeing with the look of fm16. It is childish, dated, ugly and more befitting of a free to play mobile game. Not at all appropriate for what I would like to see in a football manager game.I would like to see a return to the UI from fm14 thanks. Are your concerns purely aesthetic at this stage? Are there any obvious omissions in terms of the sort of information you would expect to see on that screen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 A lot of people saying they don't like it but not why. The biggest issue that I see is the massive waste of space taken up by the squad number. The number isn't important in the slightest and could have been missed out altogether or at least made a lot smaller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavessi Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Are your concerns purely aesthetic at this stage? Are there any obvious omissions in terms of the sort of information you would expect to see on that screen? My concerns are not purely aesthetic. I can't see team instructions on that screen, I can't see my substitutes and my players don't have information icons. I would also like to see additional information about the upcoming fixture including how many days until the fixture, betting odds, and a weather forecast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 My concerns are not purely aesthetic.I can't see team instructions on that screen, I can't see my substitutes and my players don't have information icons. I would also like to see additional information about the upcoming fixture including how many days until the fixture, betting odds, and a weather forecast. All fair comments. The FM14 screen certainly packed a lot in. IIRC the only issue was needing to scroll Team Instructions if you had quite a few. EDIT - I expect that the screenshot was a very vanilla one as there are no custom columns showing to add things like Information Icons. The visibility of all substitutes is perhaps tied to resolution or perhaps the Role / Duty should be on one line to save space and show all subs. We'll see in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 On a lark, I just snipped FM 15's tactic panel, and pasted over the players icons with these new ones scaled to a roughly similar scale. Think they better like this than really cramped together(which may be caused by low res). I'd be happy enough with this, and increased functionality. EDIT: Still might not suit 5 in a line, but I didn't squeeze them as slim as the 15 icons were. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 have to say it really doesn't look very nice on the eye. what i need to know on tactics screen is name, role (position is obvious from pitch position so not really needed), last 5 matches form, morale and visual identification of player instructions. that is from functionality side and i take it from how i set up my team on sheet of paper when planning which should be rule of thumb for SI as well. blocks are part of aesthetics side i guess but they are really not needed. even shirts are useless and only use up valuable space but they a least have connection to football and some aesthetic function. much better option would be face (that might be functional as well as you'd be able to recognize player immediately). regarding size of dreaded boxes, i really don't have fears about that. it would be completely stupid of SI not to make them resizable depending on tactics used so i am sure we will be ok there. in the end screen seems as functional as last years but uglier. so to sum it up, i miss some functionality as screen doesn't tell me essentials such as form or player instructions representatio while i get completely useless assistant's opinion on players familiarity with position. i mean, that really doesn't matter as anyone (given he has decent attributes for position) can play any position with reasonably low penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaddw Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I personally don't like how the new screen looks, although I have no idea how it will function in-game. The major thing I don't like is that we get boxes instead of kits. I first thought this was for the Ipad version. Also, why in the world would they release images taken on a low resolution computer. Thats like advertising a new video game with the graphics quality set on low. Makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friend0 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Some people like them, some don't. With something like this it's never going to be to everyone's taste. There's certain screens in the game that personally I don't like and if I could would change, but I'm not a designer nor a functionality expert. Sometimes "experts" are just "charlatan". I don't know, maybe I'm too much conservative in my 32 years... but I HATE modern designs! Every year after it looks like mainstream goes more dumb and dumb! 10 columns is too much headache for a user - lets make 3. Five buttons on a screen is too much - lets make 1 "big red button"! All this strategy is frustrating - let's make "press X to win"! But I want information! More and more information on one screen! On 640x480 monitors you had more information than now on 1920x1080! I use Win7, but use style much similar to Win98 and use Total Commander instead of Explorer. MS Office 2003 was the best and even after years of forced use of newer versions I still can't find much of needed functions. As for FM interface I think FM14 was better than FM15 and FM15 looks good in comparsion with provided screens of FM16 (not sure about comparsion with FM12-13 but FM14 had much less of my rant than FM15). Sure it's not even beta and just a screenshot for low resolution... So If I can get something like my absolutely needed info on one screen it would be nice (better more info). http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=515020008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast CTR Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Why can't it be aesthetically pleasing yet functionally sound? Spot on. It's definitely a case if it's not broken don't fix it. When there's such an outcry over one feature it should ring alarm bells for SI that something's not right. Honestly, FM14/15 tactics were exactly what I would want, nothing more, nothing less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty22 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 How about putting player faces instead of a useless squad number? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAlwaysWin Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Yeah...amazed is the wrong word. Expected but saddened?Here it comes, another free speech tirade. Anyone can say whatever they want as long as they don't breach the forum rules. But of course, that means that I can point out how ridiculous it is to kick up a massive fuss - and hilariously talk about usability - over a single screenshot. True just like everyone else you are entitled to your little opinion, but all due respect the tactics screen is like the most looked at interface in the game, you view it constantly and a easy on the eye representation of the tactics board is very very important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 True just like everyone else you are entitled to your little opinion, but all due respect the tactics screen is like the most looked at interface in the game, you view it constantly and a easy on the eye representation of the tactics board is very very important. And to counter that, it won't be the most looked at for every user, that's just generalising, as is saying it's "very, very important". I totally get to some people, not just yourself, it will be, but I'd rank it pretty far down the list of important features. In fact, it'd be very near the bottom. The function of the screen is what would be up high, and that can be (but might not be, remains to be seen) completely separate from how it looks. It comes back to what one of the mods (can't remember which one) said earlier. Basically, if I can do everything I want to do (function) then I don't really mind if it doesn't look the best. I would far rather that than they enforce some Frankenstein's monster of a mish-mash of ideas to make an aesthetically pleasing interface (and let's face it, one man's beauty is another man's fugly) that makes no sense when you're actually using it. Put simply, let's actually see it in more than one screenshot, and actually in use before we light the torches and head for SI towers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAlwaysWin Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 i would imagine if you play 5 in midfield those boxes will become smaller to accomadate the tactical setup, making your defender and attacker boxes there original size, i would assume this would look out of place and ugly, true if it functions properly who cares,but there was no reason to change it just for the sake of changing it, one feature on it i do like better is little pie icon telling me how well a player can play in that position, its more accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toby14 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Totally agree with this post. Looks very clustered & difficult to visualize the formations properly. The FM15 tactics screen & whole layout was fantastic, why change it?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Please consider removing that awful box on PC. On touch screen it will be an awesome addition because you could select the desired player far more easily. But in normal mode on PC, which I believe most of us play, it looks bad and makes that screen look way overcrowded. Also I don't see why there's no pitch texture anymore, now it's just plain green. Some things can stay the same for two years in a row, nobody will panic or criticize you for lack of work... I got the impression that this was the touch version, not the desktop? In some of the screenshots, the top nav is different, suggesting some screenshots are desktop and some a tablet. In hindsight, it would have been better to make it perfectly clear which screenshots are for which device. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger_18uk Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 On a lark, I just snipped FM 15's tactic panel, and pasted over the players icons with these new ones scaled to a roughly similar scale. Think they better like this than really cramped together(which may be caused by low res). I'd be happy enough with this, and increased functionality. EDIT: Still might not suit 5 in a line, but I didn't squeeze them as slim as the 15 icons were. Huge improvement with just a subtle change. What extra information do we get with the new tactics screen that we didn't get with the old one? I can't for the life of me figure out what makes the new version function better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 It could and should be, but people are only in a position to judge the visual aspect without the functionality at the moment, so it's all a bit of a pointless debate. Does it look bad? That's subjective. Is it functional? We don't know. Is there really a question if it looks bad? Without a doubt it looks horrible. I mean, even Stevie Wonder thinks it looks bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 No comment There is absolutely no doubt to me that FM2014 had the best tactics pitch design and functionality. I would only add the positional flexibility of FM15 and that's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Is there really a question if it looks bad? Without a doubt it looks horrible. I mean, even Stevie Wonder thinks it looks bad. Well...yeah. If it looks like what Box to Box posted on a higher resolution, it's fine. It's not the most gorgeous interface they'll have ever done, but then they've never really done any brilliant ones. Apart from FMC, which I thought was great. But then others thought that was terrible...it's almost as though everyone can have a different opinion on aesthetics. Surely that couldn't be true though, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Likewise the position of the players is now reflected better than previous versions by their positions show on the pitch - however the downside of this is that we can't have 'shirts' as opposed to the icons you seen in the screenshot. That's not to say you won't still get the shirts in other parts of the game where the formation screen is shown, such as the pre-match screen or the match formations during the match environment. Huh? FM15 had 'shirts' as well as positions shown according to roles/duties. All you needed to do was add functionality whereby you could change roles/duties from the tactics pitch, then incorporate team instructions/squad selection from FM14 and you have a winner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDavis95 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I am really quite surprised that no-one is looking at the fact that this is the IN MATCH tactics screen and not the standard tactical screens that are currently being posted. The screenshots from this year are all very low res so expect them to look squashed. We are yet to see what the out of match tactics screens look like so think judgement should be held back a bit until then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaka Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I am really quite surprised that no-one is looking at the fact that this is the IN MATCH tactics screen and not the standard tactical screens that are currently being posted. The screenshots from this year are all very low res so expect them to look squashed. We are yet to see what the out of match tactics screens look like so think judgement should be held back a bit until then. I wouldn't say "no-one", but you've certainly got a point. Alot of people who are complaining apparently fail to see that this has been taken in-match, rather than the pre-match screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Huge improvement with just a subtle change.What extra information do we get with the new tactics screen that we didn't get with the old one? I can't for the life of me figure out what makes the new version function better! I think the major difference is that the roles look like drop down buttons for quick changing. One thing I missed massively from 14 as that was my preferred way to build/edit a tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko147 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 i hope that they will put back tactic sreen as it was in fm 2015... all fm player complain about it but obviously that SI dont mind about their buyers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 i hope that they will put back tactic sreen as it was in fm 2015... all fm player complain about it but obviously that SI dont mind about their buyers Marko, enough of this. SI listened to CONSTRUCTIVE feedback last year and made changes where they deemed appropriate (and where they could, given the time) and they've always listened to CONSTRUCTIVE feeback, positive or negative. For the record, FM15 had just a big an outcry as this over the tactics screen. Now we're finding users who said that it was fine or great even. Keep your feedback contructive. Also, we've see ONE screenshot. Why not wait until there's more or better yet, we can try it ourselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dllu Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 There is absolutely no doubt to me that FM2014 had the best tactics pitch design and functionality. I would only add the positional flexibility of FM15 and that's it. Absolutely agree. I don't know what happened in the design department at SI from 2014 to 15, but it did not do the game any good... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazza Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Umm; initial view of that screen shot was one of disappointment. Functionality yes but aesthetics as well please. I know that this is just one little screen shot, however it does have that windows 8/10 blocky feel. Also, from my viewpoint that screen looks less immersive than the last few previous iterations. Though, as has been said, early days and need to see more before I would offer a full rounded opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc91 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Option of UIs would be the winner for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Option of UIs would be the winner for this. To be fair, if they were to satisfy everyone's opinion on what a good interface is, there would have to be thousands of options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Worst comes to worst, plenty of skins are going to be available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavo01 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Be interested to see a poll regarding this very subject only for a numbers purpose. When I first saw this picture I was a bit taken aback by the size of the player icons. However I spy a settings button as well so there maybe the option to shrink these icons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raniel3 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Horrible for me. Visually and functionally. Certainly not an improvement in usability having imprecise symbols instead of numbers for something important like condition. Sure, for one match there's not much difference in having 94% or 92%, but with matches every three days this diffenrence decides whom to give a break and who to send on the pitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friend0 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Hmm... just noticed that there are both scroll bars in player selection, so maybe it would be better in HD-resolution. However even for high resolution pitch takes too much space and as in FM15 Position/Role/Duty column is too wide. In FM14 it was much better. Sure you could see there only position, but it was enough, because if you like to see role/duty you could see/change it in right picture. And as alternative you can write only abbreviations there so you can have much more space in table to see more info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andu1 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 That tactic screen is atrocious. I know SI can do better than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talhak Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Dear friends, I am also one of the supporters who wants the tactics user interface be changed since it looks very ugly (I do not understand what its advantage is by meaning of functionality) as you can see from my previous posts; but further discussion is useless since gaffer Miles Jacobson says it will stay same. related tweet That's all; no need to make effort for it anymore. Forget it; have a nice day by doing something enjoyable. Life is so valuable indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Dear friends, I am also one of the supporters who wants the tactics user interface be changed since it looks very ugly (I do not understand what its advantage is by meaning of functionality) as you can see from my previous posts; but further discussion is useless since gaffer Miles Jacobson says it will stay same. related tweet That's all; no need to make effort for it anymore. Forget it; have a nice day by doing something enjoyable. Life is so valuable indeed. Just like they didn't change the tactics screen for FM15 when people really didn't like it? Aye, no point right enough. But maybe, you know, actually wait until you see it functioning before you criticise functionality? 'sakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talhak Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Just like they didn't change the tactics screen for FM15 when people really didn't like it? Aye, no point right enough.But maybe, you know, actually wait until you see it functioning before you criticise functionality? 'sakes. It seems you did not read my post carefully. I criticised the user interface (how the tactics screen look like - having eyes should be enough for commenting on it); not the functionality of it - AS I WROTE - I did not get its advantage. I think it must not be hard to explain its advantage over the one in FM15. Here is the official place of Football Manager, one can easily explain the intention behind changing tactics screen in this way to us here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Chris Rice Posted September 9, 2015 SI Staff Share Posted September 9, 2015 The change to zoomed shirts (it's still the kit, just zoomed in) rather than full shirts was made for a number of reasons, mainly to make better use of the limited space and limit overlaps, whilst still allowing for the role buttons, position comfort indicator and player name to be clearly displayed. Over recent versions we've had issues with overlaps and the kits becoming tiny depending on the formation set and resolution used. This change has helped that. The screenshot released is of the match screen version, which has less vertical space than the standard version. The standard version looks better as the pitch is taller, giving each player more breathing space. All the changes made to this screen for FM16 were made based off the feedback from FM15 and to improve the usability of this screen. Hopefully once you all get to play around with the screen your opinions will change and will understand that the changes have made the screen easier to read and interactive with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grade Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 But it always worth to point out our own opinions if we like or not. But Forameuss said, just let see how the functionality works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Any chance of seeing the tactics screen from the non-match-screen desktop version then? Just put a few people at ease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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