dllu Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 and yet FM15 is far better than FM12 Is it? Why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Is it? Why? Any number of reasons. If I try to keep it to non-personal preferences I would say the main three are possibly: A) Improved/increased number of animations making the 3d look better. B) ME improvements, part of which was additional of collision detection making the ME more realistic, ok there are other issues but just stopping the ghosting is a massive step for both attacking & defending. C) Transfer market/squad building improved, again not saying its perfect but 15 far better than what 12 was. There are plenty of others some of which are down to personal preference but I don't want to drag the thread off at a tangent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andu1 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 If this is the worst thing about FM 16, then it's already the best FM ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchbitil Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hmm, are you suggesting a player on a average raring of 8.21 from his last 5 games isnt important information on team selection and who is actually in form and who is not? I have found zero confirmation that there is such thing as "in form" in FM. Every game is separate and from scratch, and if the guy had 8.21 from his last 5 games he might be totally getting 5 this next game. His mood is much more important, since it's known that "unhappy" player usually plays worse than "happy" one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I have found zero confirmation that there is such thing as "in form" in FM. Every game is separate and from scratch, and if the guy had 8.21 from his last 5 games he might be totally getting 5 this next game.His mood is much more important, since it's known that "unhappy" player usually plays worse than "happy" one. however, there is quite high probability that player who was on 8.21 av form in last 5 games is enjoying his football and happy making him likely candidate for next match, no? Unitl he becomes complacent, that is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchbitil Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 however, there is quite high probability that player who was on 8.21 av form in last 5 games is enjoying his football and happy making him likely candidate for next match, no? Unitl he becomes complacent, that is No. You can easily just check happiness and choose happy players for your match squad, if you prefer happy over skilled. But form is just useless for squad selection. The form is there only for awards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartsMac1982 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Just wanted to add my two cents, I'm also not fond of the new blocky looking items either, they don't even appear to represent players. For me FM14 was bang on with the tactics screen, it's not a huge deal IF it will be possible to mod the icons back to the shirts, but still , no idea why SI can't take one day to provide a squads worth of "shirt icons" for the tactics screen, even if its only an "option". Feel like i'm not gonna be a Beta and/or day 1 purchaser this year, as I have since CM 01, I'll see how it goes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Just wanted to add my two scents, Old Spice and Brut for me sorry but that was too good to miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dllu Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Any number of reasons.If I try to keep it to non-personal preferences I would say the main three are possibly: A) Improved/increased number of animations making the 3d look better. B) ME improvements, part of which was additional of collision detection making the ME more realistic, ok there are other issues but just stopping the ghosting is a massive step for both attacking & defending. C) Transfer market/squad building improved, again not saying its perfect but 15 far better than what 12 was. There are plenty of others some of which are down to personal preference but I don't want to drag the thread off at a tangent. I wouldn't call it a tangent as FM16 seems to be continuing the development from FM15. I'll grant you that the ME and partly the other things you mention have been improved, which has happened gradually in every single version of FM. What I take issue with in FM15-16 compared to FM12-13-14 is the UI, the graphics and just the general visual appearance of the game. I know SI won't change a damned thing based on my opinion. Looking at previous comments in this thread, I'm just glad that I'm far from the only one who thinks FM15 (and, it seems, 16) was a massive step in the wrong direction visually from FM14 and its predecessors. To put it as simply as possible: The game is just not as easy on the eyes as it used to be... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 What I take issue with in FM15-16 compared to FM12-13-14 is the UI, the graphics and just the general visual appearance of the game. I know SI won't change a damned thing based on my opinion. Looking at previous comments in this thread, I'm just glad that I'm far from the only one who thinks FM15 (and, it seems, 16) was a massive step in the wrong direction visually from FM14 and its predecessors.To put it as simply as possible: The game is just not as easy on the eyes as it used to be... Maybe, I'm fairly laid back when it comes to those areas unless it really annoys me. I didn't like the idea of the return of the sidebar last year but you know after using it all year I've got used to it. Like a lot of things we don't like change but we do get used to them if we use them often enough. I switched from Word/Excel to Openoffice about three years ago and there were a few things different but I've got used to those as well and now I wonder why I bothered about it and wished I'd done it sooner. There has also been small improvements in those areas though, just to pick some out: A) The season summary is now much more accessible and you can actually go back through previous summaries which you couldn't before. B) I prefer the way TIs & PIs are shown in 15 compared to 12, whether I like the changes to 16 I'll have to wait & see. C) How you set up scouting & the scouting reports have changed visually, do I prefer them to 12? I'm not sure, they are different but I got used to both and I don't have any issue with 15. D) We have the profile page now for the home screen & players where you can select to show different information in different areas which is an improvement. E) Previous I used to set up custom views on the squad page to show attributes relevant to position, thats now automated and saves me a significant amount of time at the beginning of a save. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 The sidebar, which seems to not be popular, made everything very easy to find. Most of the users asking where something was last year, I could help within seconds without even knowing myself where to find it. So the look doesn't always improve, but there are reasons for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 The full size sidebar was an issue for me initially as I play on a laptop, but thanks to modding, the icon only sidebar is perfect, and I now prefer that to the previous versions. I also quite like the skin mod that hides the sidebar until you hover over the area it's in. Means for most of the time, you have the entire screen at your disposal. With so many new skins and skin mods available within a couple of months of release, anyone who is put off actually buying the game by the way it looks is being a bit silly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I much prefer the sidebar, especially with the icon only mods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 https://twitter.com/FootballManager/status/642374311827734529 Worth watching.. Discuss.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 https://twitter.com/FootballManager/status/642374311827734529Worth watching.. Discuss.. Miles is tired. Imagine if that was a more junior member of stuff making that video, they'd be in a bit of trouble with all the balls-ups Explains things a bit more clearly. Apart from the bigger icons, which they've explained, there isn't really a massive difference between the screens functionally by the looks of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 https://twitter.com/FootballManager/status/642374311827734529Worth watching.. Discuss.. You know what, dead happy with that actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Miles is tired. Imagine if that was a more junior member of stuff making that video, they'd be in a bit of trouble with all the balls-ups Explains things a bit more clearly. Apart from the bigger icons, which they've explained, there isn't really a massive difference between the screens functionally by the looks of it. The big difference is the drop down to switch roles on the wee player boxes, missed that *massively* from 14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 https://twitter.com/FootballManager/status/642374311827734529Worth watching.. Discuss.. They still have the big arsed numbers on the squares which serve no purpose. If they got rid of those there would be enough room for everything else Other than that its good to see you can alter roles and such from the pitch by left clicking, it was a step backwards not to be able to do that in FM15 compared to 14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I find the numbers handy to quickly see if I have the right players in my starting eleven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 The thing is, he says they need the big boxes for functionality, yet FM14 managed to have that with just the player shirts and it looked much better. It is good that the 'squares' get smaller when you have five in a line though. I wonder what Miles will say when a modder inevitably changes it to smaller shirts and keeps all the functionality you see now. It's impossible apparently. We'll see. The player instructions he didn't want us to see look interesting though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 The thing is, he says they need the big boxes for functionality, yet FM14 managed to have that with just the player shirts and it looked much better. It is good that the 'squares' get smaller when you have five in a line though. I wonder what Miles will say when a modder inevitably changes it to smaller shirts and keeps all the functionality you see now. It's impossible apparently. We'll see. The player instructions he didn't want us to see look interesting though. You could sense the frustration and backtracking as he frantically tried to leave that screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 You think, if he really didn't want us to see that bit, there'd be a quick edit on the vid, but yes, very interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 You could sense the frustration and backtracking as he frantically tried to leave that screen. Almost as much as I can sense the sarcasm in that post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Chris Rice Posted September 11, 2015 SI Staff Share Posted September 11, 2015 The thing is, he says they need the big boxes for functionality, yet FM14 managed to have that with just the player shirts and it looked much better. It is good that the 'squares' get smaller when you have five in a line though. I wonder what Miles will say when a modder inevitably changes it to smaller shirts and keeps all the functionality you see now. It's impossible apparently. We'll see. The player instructions he didn't want us to see look interesting though. FM14 didn't have the players shifting vertically depending on the role and didn't have the role suitability icon. To have the FM14 design in FM16, with the above added, would cause excessive overlaps and not just on minimum resolution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 FM14 didn't have the players shifting vertically depending on the role and didn't have the role suitability icon.. Yes it did, a small bar below the shirt which was either green, yellow, or red depending on suitability. But over and above this, FM15 had the players shifting vertically AND the suitability icon along with the smaller shirts. Of course, initially there was no player roles, but this was added afterwards. There doesn't appear to be any reason why the role descriptions which were added couldn't have been clickable. I'm not sure why you couldm't have kept something like the screen below but just added the functionality to click and edit the player roles. I don't understand why this would be 'impossible' considering they were clickable on FM14. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I like the vid, clears up my concerns. Yeah it's not so pretty but I'll get used to it. I really like that I can see fitness and match fitness without faffing. I'll definitely get used to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talhak Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I wonder what Miles will say when a modder inevitably changes it to smaller shirts and keeps all the functionality you see now. It's impossible apparently. We'll see. that will be the most popular/key feature of skin providers! and I believe sooner or later SI will revert these squares to shirts again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 The video calms any of the minor concerns I had, especially a stupid one I had Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Chris Rice Posted September 11, 2015 SI Staff Share Posted September 11, 2015 Yes it did, a small bar below the shirt which was either green, yellow, or red depending on suitability. But over and above this, FM15 had the players shifting vertically AND the suitability icon along with the smaller shirts. Of course, initially there was no player roles, but this was added afterwards. There doesn't appear to be any reason why the role descriptions which were added couldn't have been clickable. I'm not sure why you couldm't have kept something like the screen below but just added the functionality to click and edit the player roles. I don't understand why this would be 'impossible' considering they were clickable on FM14. The "small bar below the shirt" is not role suitability, its position ability, which is different. The reason the roles weren't clickable in FM15 was because there wasn't enough space. FM15 suffered from a lot of overlaps and sometimes tiny shirts. The new square designs are more space efficient and allow for extra content/functionality and reduced overlapping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 The "small bar below the shirt" is not role suitability, its position ability, which is different. You're right. Apologies. The reason the roles weren't clickable in FM15 was because there wasn't enough space. FM15 suffered from a lot of overlaps and sometimes tiny shirts. The new square designs are more space efficient and allow for extra content/functionality and reduced overlapping. I might be missing something here, but where would the overlap occur? If the player roles were editable from the above screen, you'd only be able to open one at a time anyway. what would be overlapping? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Withdrawn strikers & advanced AMC's overlap, not got FM up at the moment but I think a Shadow Striker & F9 take up the almost the exact same space on the tactics pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I have to admit, I baulked at the new design when I first saw it. The video helps me 90% of the way to accept the new design and i'm pretty sure, just like with previous instances, I will get used to it and learn to appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Almost as much as I can sense the sarcasm in that post Pretty hard to detect what isn't there. He really did seem annoyed that he'd hit on it early. Unsurprising given it was clearly an unrehearsed, unprepared demo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Withdrawn strikers & advanced AMC's overlap, not got FM up at the moment but I think a Shadow Striker & F9 take up the almost the exact same space on the tactics pitch. They do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Pretty hard to detect what isn't there. He really did seem annoyed that he'd hit on it early. Unsurprising given it was clearly an unrehearsed, unprepared demo.I still think that was a deliberate tease, could have easily edited it or do another take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlukitzFudgey Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 In my opinion the new change to zoomed shirts is very unappealing. I'm really not feeling it. It would still be one of the first things that I would want to change. I really like seeing the full shirts with players squad numbers attached. I spend a lot of time in the tactics screen. The position comfort indicator is very nice (with great success). The combination of match fitness and condition is also very nice. There are some ways in which extra content could be displayed. The inclusion of the three boxes on the tactic screen is a very good idea. You could use a similar concept to input any extra content. Unless it’s not possible, obviously. Good job nevertheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Pretty hard to detect what isn't there. He really did seem annoyed that he'd hit on it early. Unsurprising given it was clearly an unrehearsed, unprepared demo. As Barside has said if he really didn't want it seen it wouldn't have been there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 As Barside has said if he really didn't want it seen it wouldn't have been there. Maybe, maybe not. I got the impression it was a rush job to get it out on a Friday afternoon, and he clicked onto something he probably shouldn't have, but no big deal. I don't think they'd go to the bother of making a video about something completely different, just to give a subtle glance at something completely different. It was a mistake, but nothing too major. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMan Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Doesn't look too bad to me tbh and that all that matter's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 did the texture get back on that tactics pitch? i seem to remember early screenshots were just green background??? OT, i really don't see much of functionality change compared to fm14. and that donut button for flipping the screen and getting additional information for what? match fitness and condition? really? that is on the screen already, besides, they couldn't fit more in their square box to justify that button flip? ok, devil's advocate off now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 and that donut button for flipping the screen and getting additional information for what? match fitness and condition? really? There's more than that, you also see the appearances, goals, recent form, and suitability indicator. I quite like that feature tbh. It's something I might use a lot, particularly as I normally have a lo-res setting when I use full screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaka Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Personally, I think we've seen the New tactics screen for FM16 for the first time today. What we've seen earlier was just the in-match screen. After seeing this, I'm mostly positive to it, but just as all of us, I'll have to wait until I get to try it myself before I make my final judgment. But I'd really like for SI to release a few screens from a higher resolution than what we've seen so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 There's more than that, you also see the appearances, goals, recent form, and suitability indicator. I quite like that feature tbh. It's something I might use a lot, particularly as I normally have a lo-res setting when I use full screen. err, suitability is already on default flip (that thin coloured line) and Miles says in the video that "it shows condition rather than the player role", no mention of anything else. to be honest, there is a little horizontal line that probably will fill up once Miles plays a game with some info... i'd like to know where did you get information on other stuff you mention? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric1000 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Far, far less than 3% of Steam users play FM, it's a meaningless statistic in this context.The bugs forum holds ample proof that FM players as a breed seem to try playing it on antiquated systems using long unsupported operating systems Which perhaps is why they are posting in the bugs forum which in itself scews the stats somewhat as those with high enough specs are not having the issues. just a thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric1000 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 The number of Steam reviews where people actually know what they are talking about and can give an unbiased view is fairly minimal I find. Anyone is qualified to say if they are enjoying playing a particular game and if not what they perceive to be wrong with it. To dismiss their opinions because they maybe don't fully understand the inner workings of football manager sims or football in general is ignorant. Their money is as good as yours and allows them a voice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Anyone is qualified to say if they are enjoying playing a particular game and if not what they perceive to be wrong with it. To dismiss their opinions because they maybe don't fully understand the inner workings of football manager sims or football in general is ignorant. Their money is as good as yours and allows them a voice. If they don't understand the game then their review is of little use to any other potential customer as they can't give a fair review of the product. EDIT The point of a review is not "To give them a voice" its to help other potential customers come to a decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric1000 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 If they don't understand the game then their review is of little use to any other potential customer as they can't give a fair review of the product.EDIT The point of a review is not "To give them a voice" its to help other potential customers come to a decision. And it's for the person reading it to decide if what is being said is important to him / her. All views are relevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 And it's for the person reading it to decide if what is being said is important to him / her. All views are relevant. and what if thats false, incorrect or misunderstood? How does that help anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 err, suitability is already on default flip (that thin coloured line) and Miles says in the video that "it shows condition rather than the player role", no mention of anything else. to be honest, there is a little horizontal line that probably will fill up once Miles plays a game with some info... i'd like to know where did you get information on other stuff you mention? Er, I watched the video where he clicked on the thing and it opened up and showed what info was on the screen. EDIT - Unless we're talking about two completely different things, but I'm talking about this... I think in saves where I have a settled formation that doesn't need much tinkering, if any, I'll use this to pick the team most matches. Nice wee addition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Which perhaps is why they are posting in the bugs forum which in itself scews the stats somewhat as those with high enough specs are not having the issues. just a thought Exactly what I said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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