Football Manager 2022 Teaser Trailer

[bahmet]

When will there be more news about FM22? Less than a month before beta.

[destmez]

il y a 30 minutes, XaW a dit :

My personal opinion is that they should remove it when the game is played live (aesthetics and such, or just realism, as the manager would never look at random things while the game plays), but add it after the game is finished, since that is quite a normal thing to do...watch the game again, that is.

 

I agree in part with your arguments but SI said their game i way to escape reality , this removing feature just killed my style of playing but ok i would play with much slower pace if animation where more realistic with dribbles and if the was more immersive without score bord sometime i would not know if i play away or home .  

In conclusions i am supporting every idea Who can give a better immersion on the game 

" Match day sounds really needs improving, there appears to be no difference between a League Two game and a Premier League game." 

just an exemple

Edited September 29, 2021 by destmez

[Daniel Evensen]

All this talk about the match engine's graphical quality confuses me.

I played FM off and on during FM2011, FM2012, and FM2013.  I don't remember the graphics engine being so extremely superior to the graphical engine we currently have.  I do remember trying to get my high-end laptop to run matches completely in 3D mode back then; usually the computer would crash in the space of an hour.

A lot has been said about FM2017's graphical quality.  I did a search on YouTube for 3D gameplay footage.  I had a hard time finding much.  Most of the content creators at the time seem to have played with the 2D match engine, using the 3D engine only for replays.  Based on what I could see from @lollujo's Non League To Legend series that year, I couldn't see any signs of this incredible 3D engine that people have been talking about.  The stadiums in particular looked even more generic than they do today.  Other content creators didn't seem much different.

Now, this could be because these content creators played with a lot of graphical features turned off.  However, my instincts tell me that looking at a few screenshots is a lot different from looking at actual gameplay from the time.  I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

In other words, don't sell the current graphics team short.

Perhaps part of the problem is that our expectations are all different.  I don't come from the world of FIFA and other graphical games.  I became interested in FM through the Diamond Mind Baseball community.  Diamond Mind is a text-based sim, with a graphical interface that hails back to the Windows 3.1 era (actually, the UI was originally designed for MSDOS 6).  There are a number of people here who have experience with other decidedly non-graphical games, such as Action PC Football, APBA Hockey, the Strat-o-Matic games, and so on.  Before that, I was rolling dice and consulting APBA cards, in which my only "graphics" were extremely abstract tables of numbers incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

Football Manager is so much more detailed and immersive than those games that it's not even funny.  And that's why I find all of this hand-wringing about the graphical quality so strange.  It makes me feel like there are people who skip through all the managerial aspects just to get to the next match.

As for FM22, I'm having a hard time trying out a Hexagon Challenge with FM21, knowing that I'll put whatever project I've started aside as soon as the beta comes out.  FM21 was amazing, and I think SI is on the right track as a company.

[Tony Wright 747]

9 minutes ago, Daniel Evensen said:

All this talk about the match engine's graphical quality confuses me.

I played FM off and on during FM2011, FM2012, and FM2013.  I don't remember the graphics engine being so extremely superior to the graphical engine we currently have.  I do remember trying to get my high-end laptop to run matches completely in 3D mode back then; usually the computer would crash in the space of an hour.

A lot has been said about FM2017's graphical quality.  I did a search on YouTube for 3D gameplay footage.  I had a hard time finding much.  Most of the content creators at the time seem to have played with the 2D match engine, using the 3D engine only for replays.  Based on what I could see from @lollujo's Non League To Legend series that year, I couldn't see any signs of this incredible 3D engine that people have been talking about.  The stadiums in particular looked even more generic than they do today.  Other content creators didn't seem much different.

Now, this could be because these content creators played with a lot of graphical features turned off.  However, my instincts tell me that looking at a few screenshots is a lot different from looking at actual gameplay from the time.  I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

In other words, don't sell the current graphics team short.

Perhaps part of the problem is that our expectations are all different.  I don't come from the world of FIFA and other graphical games.  I became interested in FM through the Diamond Mind Baseball community.  Diamond Mind is a text-based sim, with a graphical interface that hails back to the Windows 3.1 era (actually, the UI was originally designed for MSDOS 6).  There are a number of people here who have experience with other decidedly non-graphical games, such as Action PC Football, APBA Hockey, the Strat-o-Matic games, and so on.  Before that, I was rolling dice and consulting APBA cards, in which my only "graphics" were extremely abstract tables of numbers incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

Football Manager is so much more detailed and immersive than those games that it's not even funny.  And that's why I find all of this hand-wringing about the graphical quality so strange.  It makes me feel like there are people who skip through all the managerial aspects just to get to the next match.

As for FM22, I'm having a hard time trying out a Hexagon Challenge with FM21, knowing that I'll put whatever project I've started aside as soon as the beta comes out.  FM21 was amazing, and I think SI is on the right track as a company.

Hours of FM17 3D gameplay from Loki Doki on youtube

[autohoratio]

19 minutes ago, XaW said:

or just realism, as the manager would never look at random things while the game plays

Coaches/analysts in real life can definitely show the manager short clips and replays from during the match though. Without the match timeline you have to wait until after the game to analyse a short snippet of play. Unless SI add some kind of feature (which will be far more hassle than it's worth to implement, taking up precious development resources, if it's even feasible at all) to intuitively "request" your backroom staff show you a replay of that pass on the far side of the pitch, or an alternate angle of defending a corner, or a high-up analyst view of your midfield to see how they press the opponents in possession, then removing the timeline makes the game less accessible for little-if-any benefit IMO. Maybe an option in the settings to hide the timeline would be better for those who want to play without it while leaving it in place for those who do wish to make use of it.

[destmez]

il y a 8 minutes, autohoratio a dit :

Coaches/analysts in real life can definitely show the manager short clips and replays from during the match though. Without the match timeline you have to wait until after the game to analyse a short snippet of play. Unless SI add some kind of feature (which will be far more hassle than it's worth to implement, taking up precious development resources, if it's even feasible at all) to intuitively "request" your backroom staff show you a replay of that pass on the far side of the pitch, or an alternate angle of defending a corner, or a high-up analyst view of your midfield to see how they press the opponents in possession, then removing the timeline makes the game less accessible for little-if-any benefit IMO. Maybe an option in the settings to hide the timeline would be better for those who want to play without it while leaving it in place for those who do wish to make use of it.

At the end its the à just a game in every football game you can pause the game and watch what happn in replay (on free moving camera) even mobile game its not something  new if the game was 100% aiming for realistic then 😂 : 

Alright now they understand my POV

Alright now they understand my POV

@xaw manager today dont use drone or TV Camera 😥

Edited September 29, 2021 by destmez

[destmez]

Le 28/09/2021 à 18:42, akm.91 a dit :

Why would community modded stadiums be a licensing issue...but we are allowed to import logos, faces, kits? It’s one or the other...

A stadium editor would be such an easy win for SI...

Like in Fifa manager it worked 

[zabyl]

1 saat önce, XaW said:

My personal opinion is that they should remove it when the game is played live (aesthetics and such, or just realism, as the manager would never look at random things while the game plays), but add it after the game is finished, since that is quite a normal thing to do...watch the game again, that is.

I respect every opinion unless it is one-sided. I can’t watch games full 90 minutes like real managers. Because I have no time for it. I have no time for extended or the other one, I forgot its name. I can only play on key highlights or just commentary. Timeline is the only option to turn back and see what is going on between a short period of time. Yes, removing it gives more realism to managerial experience. I’m agree. Even so; I have to spare less time for this game because of work & family. Changes like this disincline me from playing FM. Is someone planning to make this game for younger people who have more time? Did they forget their 30+ customers?  Maybe it is time for me to stop playing FM because of having more responsibilities…

Edited September 29, 2021 by zabyl

[Powermonger]

5 hours ago, Platinum said:

What software did you use to stop the screen this sharply? O did you just pause it on Youtube?

Just reduced YouTube playback speed to 0.25 and paused it on the one frame of the start of the transition showing the Data Hub.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Powermonger

[Marko1989]

 

13 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

All this talk about the match engine's graphical quality confuses me.

I played FM off and on during FM2011, FM2012, and FM2013.  I don't remember the graphics engine being so extremely superior to the graphical engine we currently have.  I do remember trying to get my high-end laptop to run matches completely in 3D mode back then; usually the computer would crash in the space of an hour.

A lot has been said about FM2017's graphical quality.  I did a search on YouTube for 3D gameplay footage.  I had a hard time finding much.  Most of the content creators at the time seem to have played with the 2D match engine, using the 3D engine only for replays.  Based on what I could see from @lollujo's Non League To Legend series that year, I couldn't see any signs of this incredible 3D engine that people have been talking about.  The stadiums in particular looked even more generic than they do today.  Other content creators didn't seem much different.

Now, this could be because these content creators played with a lot of graphical features turned off.  However, my instincts tell me that looking at a few screenshots is a lot different from looking at actual gameplay from the time.  I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

In other words, don't sell the current graphics team short.

Perhaps part of the problem is that our expectations are all different.  I don't come from the world of FIFA and other graphical games.  I became interested in FM through the Diamond Mind Baseball community.  Diamond Mind is a text-based sim, with a graphical interface that hails back to the Windows 3.1 era (actually, the UI was originally designed for MSDOS 6).  There are a number of people here who have experience with other decidedly non-graphical games, such as Action PC Football, APBA Hockey, the Strat-o-Matic games, and so on.  Before that, I was rolling dice and consulting APBA cards, in which my only "graphics" were extremely abstract tables of numbers incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

Football Manager is so much more detailed and immersive than those games that it's not even funny.  And that's why I find all of this hand-wringing about the graphical quality so strange.  It makes me feel like there are people who skip through all the managerial aspects just to get to the next match.

As for FM22, I'm having a hard time trying out a Hexagon Challenge with FM21, knowing that I'll put whatever project I've started aside as soon as the beta comes out.  FM21 was amazing, and I think SI is on the right track as a company.

Let me help you with this. It is not that the graphics were better in FM 2017M, that is impossible, the problem is with lightning, attention to details and the overall aesthetics. They were able to make much more pleasing game to look at both in 2D and in 3D back in 2017 using probably worse graphics.

2017
 

Look at the grass and the lightning.

And then 4 years later. Does this really looks like there is 4 years worth of improvement? 




 2D. 2017

 


Again, look at the details, there are stadium stands, there are fans, the goals look better. 

And look this, I have no idea how to even describe lowering the details and overall worse look of something that should look better 4 years later and not worse!

The stadium stands and fans should have been improved and not removed! They could make an option to disable/enable stadium stands in 2D for those who want to place widgets in empty space instead. That would be really the move for all the fans. Everybody would be happy. Both those who care about the aesthetics in 2D and those who don't care about graphics at all. If I am not mistaken, they have even removed the option to place widgets in 2021, so now we have neither.

2021


 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Marko1989

[warlock]

13 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

This is maybe not an ideal screenshot but look at the grass, at the lightning, at the details in front of the goal.

Eye of the beholder and all that, but that looks utterly hideous to me. I'll take FM21 every time.

[Federico]

To be honest, FM21 graphic look much more clean.

[Harper]

4 hours ago, XaW said:

My personal opinion is that they should remove it when the game is played live (aesthetics and such, or just realism, as the manager would never look at random things while the game plays), but add it after the game is finished, since that is quite a normal thing to do...watch the game again, that is.

 

3 hours ago, autohoratio said:

Coaches/analysts in real life can definitely show the manager short clips and replays from during the match though. Without the match timeline you have to wait until after the game to analyse a short snippet of play. Unless SI add some kind of feature (which will be far more hassle than it's worth to implement, taking up precious development resources, if it's even feasible at all) to intuitively "request" your backroom staff show you a replay of that pass on the far side of the pitch, or an alternate angle of defending a corner, or a high-up analyst view of your midfield to see how they press the opponents in possession, then removing the timeline makes the game less accessible for little-if-any benefit IMO. Maybe an option in the settings to hide the timeline would be better for those who want to play without it while leaving it in place for those who do wish to make use of it.

I think there are a few distinct feature requests here.

First, during play, when the assistant manager gives tactical advice, there's an associated clip demonstrating what the problem is with the current TI/PI. Replays shouldn't happen automatically, but an option pops up a few minutes later indicating that analysis of the goal is available, and you have the option of viewing immediately (and it's always available at half). For a realism factor, the game shouldn't pause and the "tablet" you're looking at should cover the gameplay without going translucent. Think of it as when the manager is conversing with his staff on the sideline and focusing on the tablet or white board.

Second, at half time, a package of clips is provided to show my team's problem areas in the first half (could be a team instruction not working or a player isn't performing his role or a specific PI, etc), some clips of what went well, and clips of what the opposition is doing and suggestions of how to prevent/take advantage.

Third, a package of clips made available the day after the match, and accompanied by suggestions for tactical changes or specific training sessions that would work on the identified issues or were beneficial in the application of things that went well.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Harper

[Harper]

11 minutes ago, warlock said:

Eye of the beholder and all that, but that looks utterly hideous to me. I'll take FM21 every time.

 

5 minutes ago, Federico said:

To be honest, FM21 graphic look much more clean.

Agreed. The FM17 grass looks unnaturally green. The deterioration of the playing surface might be a valid point, but on the flip-side, when was the last time you saw a professional side's six yard box like Leverkusen's (presuming it's Leverkusen with the Aranguiz player highlight) become a mud-pit? There's a lot of factors in play in those screen shots. Maybe the FM17 shot is near the end of the season and the pitch has deteriorated significantly while the FM21 is not? Maybe the FM17 shot is a semi-professional, rented stadium and FM21 is a top-tier Bundesliga stadium.

[Marko1989]

1 minute ago, Harper said:

 

Agreed. The FM17 grass looks unnaturally green. The deterioration of the playing surface might be a valid point, but on the flip-side, when was the last time you saw a professional side's six yard box like Leverkusen's (presuming it's Leverkusen with the Aranguiz player highlight) become a mud-pit? There's a lot of factors in play in those screen shots. Maybe the FM17 shot is near the end of the season and the pitch has deteriorated significantly while the FM21 is not? Maybe the FM17 shot is a semi-professional, rented stadium and FM21 is a top-tier Bundesliga stadium.

 

16 minutes ago, Federico said:

To be honest, FM21 graphic look much more clean.

 

16 minutes ago, Federico said:

To be honest, FM21 graphic look much more clean.

I have added second screenshot in my initial post because saturation was too high on the first one, I agree with that. But example, to me, this second screenshot from 2017 looks better than 2021

[Harper]

Also, this is a good article, re:Providing feedback to development studios

 

[naterego93]

FM 17 is still popular to this day for a reason...

 

[Powermonger]

1 hour ago, Marko1989 said:

 2D. 2017

 


Again, look at the details, there are stadium stands, there are fans, the goals look better. 

And look this, I have no idea how to even describe lowering the details and overall worse look of something that should look better 4 years later and not worse!

The stadium stands and fans should have been improved and not removed! They could make an option to disable/enable stadium stands in 2D for those 

I was never a fan of displaying stands in 2D view when using it, it made the screen feel cluttered and distracting. It made me feel like I was watching Jelle's Marble Olympics in hindsight.

2D view for me has always represented watching the game being 'replayed' on a football tactical board, if using this mode I want it to be simple, I don't need animated crowds or stadiums.

[pats]

Wide center backs are welcome addition. Any new roles for wide forward/AMRL positions? 

[craiigman]

I stopped playing FM21 in the end after not many hours, even though for the first time in a long time I had a machine capable of playing it really well.

I have ME frustrations that have been there since FM19, but my biggest complaint is the UI/UX. Been mentioned once in this thread so far that I’ve seen.

When screens don’t work as they are meant to or when you have to go through 4 screens to get to something that used to take 1 click. It’s adding extra time to the experience and that’s what stopped me playing. The UI/UX is really really poor at the moment. I hope this new data thing helps with this, but there are so many screens that need amending/reworking. 

Be the first time since FM10 that I won’t be buying the game on release. I know people look to the new features as a way to justify purchasing, but for me it’s long overdue a complete bug/interface overhaul. The fact that the column bug still exists on the squad screen should show this.

WCB is cool though

[saihtam]

11 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

 I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

But you can, nothing stops running 32-bit program on 64-bit Windows.(If you have the newest mac, that might be different havent game on them)  Older games dont get obsolete so fast.

[Federico]

6 ore fa, naterego93 ha scritto:

FM 17 is still popular to this day for a reason...

 

Except that this video is from more than 1 year when FM21 wasn't still out.

[Federico]

7 ore fa, Marko1989 ha scritto:

 

 

I have added second screenshot in my initial post because saturation was too high on the first one, I agree with that. But example, to me, this second screenshot from 2017 looks better than 2021

The only difference from FM17 to FM21 represented in this picture is the pitch pattern/colors (brightness etc. etc.) which is better in FM17, I agree (I remember it was beautiful in FM18 too).

So that's all we're talking about? Pitches?

FM21 offers me a vast additions of animations, flags and better nets. Even benches are better (I remember benches made by brickwalls in FM17).

For me all this discussions about graphics are surely worth to be mentioned but just that much, after that it turns into a waste of time, both writings and readings.

[duesouth]

10 hours ago, zabyl said:

I respect every opinion unless it is one-sided. I can’t watch games full 90 minutes like real managers. Because I have no time for it. I have no time for extended or the other one, I forgot its name. I can only play on key highlights or just commentary. Timeline is the only option to turn back and see what is going on between a short period of time. Yes, removing it gives more realism to managerial experience. I’m agree. Even so; I have to spare less time for this game because of work & family. Changes like this disincline me from playing FM. Is someone planning to make this game for younger people who have more time? Did they forget their 30+ customers?  Maybe it is time for me to stop playing FM because of having more responsibilities…

Completely agree with you - and several others made the same point in the FM21 feedback thread.  Yesterday was a typical example for me - between work, the commute and family life, I had about 30 minutes free time to play FM.  I managed to play one game and clearly I didn't have time to watch on Full or Comprehensive.  As such, at times when I'm in the game I feel disconnected - so while I do get the realism viewpoint - SI does have to understand and cater to users who maybe only have 30 minutes a day to snatch a bit of FM.

[Federico]

11 ore fa, Daniel Evensen ha scritto:

I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

Could you explain this, I'm even running FM07 on my 64 bit machine without any problem, maybe I can help you out with it.

[Lempicka]

6 minutes ago, Federico said:

The only difference from FM17 to FM21 represented in this picture is the pitch pattern/colors (brightness etc. etc.) which is better in FM17, I agree (I remember it was beautiful in FM18 too).

So that's all we're talking about? Pitches?

FM21 offers me a vast additions of animations, flags and better nets. Even benches are better (I remember benches made by brickwalls in FM17).

For me all this discussions about graphics are surely worth to be mentioned but just that much, after that it turns into a waste of time, both writings and readings.

What about stadiums and the lack of variety? What about there being no difference in on screen stadium scale whether 1,500 or 15,000 capacity? There's also no difference whether you're playing in England or Eastern Europe. You have a tricky Europa qualifying game away in in Albania and you turn up to find that the stadium is the same as yours - only it's got a massive warehouse in one corner!

In an earlier save, I took Coventry City to the play-off finals at Wembley. Imagine my disappointment when I saw that Wembley on screen looked smaller than my own 32,000 capacity ground! 

People have been complaining about the massive TV screens in the lower league grounds for years and they're still there. Yes, I know it's a device to fill in corner sections of grounds - but it looks so unrealistic. True, they did attempt to add a bit of variety in the corners in FM21 with warehouses and other buildings - but they just look daft alongside smaller grounds.

I'm too long in the tooth to expect massive changes (we have the same arguments every year) - but the game is crying out for more stadium variation. It was in earlier games - so it's not an unrealistic request.

[naterego93]

8 hours ago, Powermonger said:

I was never a fan of displaying stands in 2D view when using it, it made the screen feel cluttered and distracting. It made me feel like I was watching Jelle's Marble Olympics in hindsight.

2D view for me has always represented watching the game being 'replayed' on a football tactical board, if using this mode I want it to be simple, I don't need animated crowds or stadiums.

You know there is a 2d classic mode if things like fans in the stands are too "complex" for you...

[Erimus1876]

14 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

All this talk about the match engine's graphical quality confuses me.

I played FM off and on during FM2011, FM2012, and FM2013.  I don't remember the graphics engine being so extremely superior to the graphical engine we currently have.  I do remember trying to get my high-end laptop to run matches completely in 3D mode back then; usually the computer would crash in the space of an hour.

A lot has been said about FM2017's graphical quality.  I did a search on YouTube for 3D gameplay footage.  I had a hard time finding much.  Most of the content creators at the time seem to have played with the 2D match engine, using the 3D engine only for replays.  Based on what I could see from @lollujo's Non League To Legend series that year, I couldn't see any signs of this incredible 3D engine that people have been talking about.  The stadiums in particular looked even more generic than they do today.  Other content creators didn't seem much different.

Now, this could be because these content creators played with a lot of graphical features turned off.  However, my instincts tell me that looking at a few screenshots is a lot different from looking at actual gameplay from the time.  I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

In other words, don't sell the current graphics team short.

Perhaps part of the problem is that our expectations are all different.  I don't come from the world of FIFA and other graphical games.  I became interested in FM through the Diamond Mind Baseball community.  Diamond Mind is a text-based sim, with a graphical interface that hails back to the Windows 3.1 era (actually, the UI was originally designed for MSDOS 6).  There are a number of people here who have experience with other decidedly non-graphical games, such as Action PC Football, APBA Hockey, the Strat-o-Matic games, and so on.  Before that, I was rolling dice and consulting APBA cards, in which my only "graphics" were extremely abstract tables of numbers incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

Football Manager is so much more detailed and immersive than those games that it's not even funny.  And that's why I find all of this hand-wringing about the graphical quality so strange.  It makes me feel like there are people who skip through all the managerial aspects just to get to the next match.

As for FM22, I'm having a hard time trying out a Hexagon Challenge with FM21, knowing that I'll put whatever project I've started aside as soon as the beta comes out.  FM21 was amazing, and I think SI is on the right track as a company.

The problem with watching youtbuers is they don't really do the match engine justice.  The vast majority of them play the game on fast speed, from the same generic camera angle, and the whole show is about getting through each game as quickly as possible. That seems to be the general format of them all imo.  So a lot of the subtle things about the 3D match are lost or missed.

The only way you can really compare older versions to the fundamental change that came with FM18 and onwards, is to play them yourselves and spend time with them.  Play a season in FM17 for instance, and one in FM21.  You see both have their pro's and cons.  21's ME is more advanced (obviously), has more animations etc.  FM17 has better visuals, and more stadium variety, and 16 different camera angles to choose from, as well as a wealth of graphical options to chose from in preferences (as mentioned earlier in this thread, here: Link).

Sorry you cant get your FM17 to work to try this.  I'm still playing it to this day and have provided a selection of screenshots from around the world on my current FM17 save.

There just seems to be more "character" to the stadiums, and the visuals add that little bit extra to my game, especially the lighting.  I played FM19 and 20 extensively, and FM21 for a few seasons too, but they're so generic looking and bland compared to the overall matchday experience that FM17 offered.  Its hard to put into words how its different, the only way to see and feel it is to go back and play those pre-FM18 versions and see if you notice it too (hope you get it working).

 

Stadium variety, shadows, and lighting from my FM17 save...

Scottish lower leagues

 

Brazil

 

England

 

Denmark lower league

 

Germany

 

One other thing that I think has been lost with recent versions of FM is the ability to mod the 'between highlights' match panel, which at one time provided us with a wealth of useful info that was visually pleasing to the eye.  This being my personal favourite in FM17...

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the kind of modabilty we once had of those panels is possible anymore.  It was those subtle aspects of the older FMs that also helped improve the whole matchday experience too, i.e. little things like the aesthetically pleasing match scoreboard on those screenshots I posted.  They may seem inconsequential to those who don't notice or care about that stuff, but for players who love watching their games and put a lot of time into the 3D matchday experience, they are important.  I really dislike the direction the later FMs went when they made it harder for modders to create things like that.

 

[Piperita]

What I just realised: The Wide Centreback on attack  is only marginally more offensive in his base position than a "normal" Centreback. Which means there is a good chance the support and maybe defensive duty could be on level.

Nonstatic-three-at-the-back-offside-trap here I come!

[DarJ]

I've been following this thread for a while now and reading the comments has been comical for me because we are arguing about things that are not essential. 

I couldn't care less about graphics because I play in 2D and I'll always play that way, however, YES it would be nice if the lighting of the pitch was better, YES it would be mice if the stadiums were better and had more variation but that isn't the core of the game. 

The match engine was great this year but there are still a few improvements I'd like to see for example defenders awareness and reaction time (they seem to be slower to react than forwards), set pieces and there's the annoying thing when you see players dribbling to the byline to "cross" when they don't have enough support instead of buying time for the teammates to join the attack by dribbling and going forward with the ball and turning around to pass the ball back to a midfielder or fullback running forward instead of just hitting the ball against the leg of the defenders and getting a corner. While some might argue that having some roles like the IF and W with attacking mentality is a culprit to this issue because they tend to dribble more, that doesn't happen as much IRL.

The thing is although the game is not meant to be a full simulation of the real world, the truth is that football itself doesn't change that much from year to year so I'm always baffled when people say things like "I'm not buying the game this year because there are no new features". I can't think of anything ground breaking things that are in football that are not already in the game, it's just a question of refining what they already have. If every year they came out and said we only focused on this aspect of the game and this is how it has improved I'll be happy with that.

That's just my opinion you don't have to agree or disagree but what I would say is if there are a lot of you that are unhappy with the state of the game, why don't you just organize yourselves and not buy the game anymore, the best way to make your voice heard is to put your money where your mouth is. If SI suffer a considerable loss in revenue then they will be forced to go back to the drawing board.

 

[DamienQilBormliz]

33 minutes ago, Erimus1876 said:

The problem with watching youtbuers is they don't really do the match engine justice.  The vast majority of them play the game on fast speed, from the same generic camera angle, and the whole show is about getting through each game as quickly as possible. That seems to be the general format of them all imo.  So a lot of the subtle things about the 3D match are lost or missed.

The only way you can really compare older versions to the fundamental change that came with FM18 and onwards, is to play them yourselves and spend time with them.  Play a season in FM17 for instance, and one in FM21.  You see both have their pro's and cons.  21's ME is more advanced (obviously), has more animations etc.  FM17 has better visuals, and more stadium variety, and 16 different camera angles to choose from, as well as a wealth of graphical options to chose from in preferences (as mentioned earlier in this thread, here: Link).

Sorry you cant get your FM17 to work to try this.  I'm still playing it to this day and have provided a selection of screenshots from around the world on my current FM17 save.

There just seems to be more "character" to the stadiums, and the visuals add that little bit extra to my game, especially the lighting.  I played FM19 and 20 extensively, and FM21 for a few seasons too, but they're so generic looking and bland compared to the overall matchday experience that FM17 offered.  Its hard to put into words how its different, the only way to see and feel it is to go back and play those pre-FM18 versions and see if you notice it too (hope you get it working).

 

Stadium variety, shadows, and lighting from my FM17 save...

Scottish lower leagues

 

Brazil

 

England

 

Denmark lower league

 

Germany

 

One other thing that I think has been lost with recent versions of FM is the ability to mod the 'between highlights' match panel, which at one time provided us with a wealth of useful info that was visually pleasing to the eye.  This being my personal favourite in FM17...

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the kind of modabilty we once had of those panels is possible anymore.  It was those subtle aspects of the older FMs that also helped improve the whole matchday experience too, i.e. little things like the aesthetically pleasing match scoreboard on those screenshots I posted.  They may seem inconsequential to those who don't notice or care about that stuff, but for players who love watching their games and put a lot of time into the 3D matchday experience, they are important.  I really dislike the direction the later FMs went when they made it harder for modders to create things like that.

 

Oh man I miss those turf pitches and it's lightning! much more realistic than today's default and custom pitches to be honest

[Federico]

2 ore fa, Lempicka ha scritto:

What about stadiums and the lack of variety? What about there being no difference in on screen stadium scale whether 1,500 or 15,000 capacity? There's also no difference whether you're playing in England or Eastern Europe. You have a tricky Europa qualifying game away in in Albania and you turn up to find that the stadium is the same as yours - only it's got a massive warehouse in one corner!

In an earlier save, I took Coventry City to the play-off finals at Wembley. Imagine my disappointment when I saw that Wembley on screen looked smaller than my own 32,000 capacity ground! 

People have been complaining about the massive TV screens in the lower league grounds for years and they're still there. Yes, I know it's a device to fill in corner sections of grounds - but it looks so unrealistic. True, they did attempt to add a bit of variety in the corners in FM21 with warehouses and other buildings - but they just look daft alongside smaller grounds.

I'm too long in the tooth to expect massive changes (we have the same arguments every year) - but the game is crying out for more stadium variation. It was in earlier games - so it's not an unrealistic request.

My answer is: whatever! 

I'd like to see more variations with stadiums? Yes .

Does it worth talking about it for 3 pages of complaints? Hell, definitely not. 

I want a good representation of football, cosmetics are just what they are: cosmetics.

[jmlima]

On 26/09/2021 at 23:01, Daniel Evensen said:

I know I've sort of argued the opposite perspective above - but this is a really good point.

I really wish we could see a bigger difference in working in different countries.  In fact, I really wish we could customize different things in the in-game editor as well to enhance the experience.

As it stands now, the only real differences between working in one place and another is what your schedule looks like, or the foreign restrictions you have to work with, or what the rules for the league happen to be.  If you decide to manage a team in a really obscure or unknown country - say, Kiribati - it's really no different than non-league management in the big European leagues, or managing a club in countries filled with mostly amateur clubs and the occasional semipro club.

It would be really nice if there were other aspects of the game that would allow for more cultural differences - a different feel from country to country.  And it would be really nice if we had an easier to use editor that allowed us to make modifications like that.

Personally, I'd rather see that than a bunch of modifications to the 3d match engine.

This. This is probably one of the biggest single failure of the series. There's a total and utter failure to differentiate between different football cultures. In the game, every single country's logic is the same, quite simply, there's zero reflection of the fact that different countries, even different clubs inside the same country but at different league levels operate in total different ways relating to fundamental aspects of the games (scouting, transfer policy and methodology being the biggest culprits). In fact, over the years this only got worse, the introduction of press conferences and their stereotypical patterns is another quite visible aspect of this. 3D also made us painfully aware of this as a stadium looks made out of  the same building blocks irrespective of it being in the Brazilian lower leagues or in the English Premier League. The largest problem here is the introduction of new features without allowing for the massive work involved in making them work well for all of the leagues that ship with the game (for this commentary I'm ignoring third party league mods).

I mean, if we are looking areas of improvement, whilst sticking to the game's core mission, then scouting, set pieces, tactics and intra-staff role relations would be the areas to tackle. After that you would go after league procedural and cultural differences, including the in-game match experience (again, zero difference between a Italian lower league game and the final of the Libertadores). 

Having said this, SI have zero incentive to do any of this. In fact, I'm surprised they still put some effort into anything other than updated databases and a new skin to make it look 'fresh'. Given the sales numbers, I probably wouldn't and would just maximize profits so, kudos to SI for still bothering with anything new and change some features here and there.

 

[FedAt]

15 часов назад, bahmet сказал:

When will there be more news about FM22? Less than a month before beta.

Maybe they have nothing to show, considering first trailer 🙄

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, FedAt said:

Maybe they have nothing to show, considering first trailer 🙄

Quote

 

"New Features and Game Upgrades

Starting with FM22 on PC/Mac, new features and licensing updates will begin to be released from late September onwards across our social media channels. Join the FMFC squad to get feature details and member exclusives direct to your inbox before anyone else.

Game upgrades and a host of exciting additions across all platforms will be also be revealed from early October across our website and social media, so get following to get ahead of the game."

 

There will be more news and more detailed news too. It's coming and SI posted this in the pinned announcement thread. This was a teaser, not a headline features video.

[akm.91]

29 minutes ago, FedAt said:

Maybe they have nothing to show, considering first trailer 🙄

Look at what they called the video they released: Football Manager 2022|New features preview

 

I’m guessing what we will get is a more in-depth blog of what they showed in the trailer. The data hub thingy...and new positions.  I’ll genuinely be shocked if we have any proper headline features. Plus with only a month or so until release, if something big was happening, they would of let everyone know by now...no news is sometimes bad news unfortunately. This would also make sense considering the statement Miles Jacobson put out the other day regarding FM22 development...

 

But hopefully I’m made to look silly and there are plenty more HEADLINE features in store!!! 

[Harper]

4 hours ago, saihtam said:

But you can, nothing stops running 32-bit program on 64-bit Windows.(If you have the newest mac, that might be different havent game on them)  Older games dont get obsolete so fast.

Might be Mac v PC rather 32-bit v 64-bit. FM17 wasn’t supported for MacOS. I can’t install pre-FM18 on my MacBook and I don’t care enough to pull out my old PC and load up both versions.

[bobbyb12345]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

There will be more news and more detailed news too. It's coming and SI posted this in the pinned announcement thread. This was a teaser, not a headline features video.

I think anyone smart could see this was a thin teaser video - half of the things "teased" are things already in previous games. Silly decision to omit important upgrades which makes me thing there aren't any other major ones.

On another point mentioned earlier, I don't watch loads of FM streamers/"content creators" (hate that phrase) - but the bits I've seen why do they play with the highlights so fast? It's like there's a mutual agreement we can't expose the match engine at normal speed so we don't have to point out some of the glaring issues (and this is someone who thinks the ME in 21 is a step forward from 20).

[Tonton_Zola]

16 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

All this talk about the match engine's graphical quality confuses me.

I played FM off and on during FM2011, FM2012, and FM2013.  I don't remember the graphics engine being so extremely superior to the graphical engine we currently have.  I do remember trying to get my high-end laptop to run matches completely in 3D mode back then; usually the computer would crash in the space of an hour.

A lot has been said about FM2017's graphical quality.  I did a search on YouTube for 3D gameplay footage.  I had a hard time finding much.  Most of the content creators at the time seem to have played with the 2D match engine, using the 3D engine only for replays.  Based on what I could see from @lollujo's Non League To Legend series that year, I couldn't see any signs of this incredible 3D engine that people have been talking about.  The stadiums in particular looked even more generic than they do today.  Other content creators didn't seem much different.

Now, this could be because these content creators played with a lot of graphical features turned off.  However, my instincts tell me that looking at a few screenshots is a lot different from looking at actual gameplay from the time.  I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

In other words, don't sell the current graphics team short.

Perhaps part of the problem is that our expectations are all different.  I don't come from the world of FIFA and other graphical games.  I became interested in FM through the Diamond Mind Baseball community.  Diamond Mind is a text-based sim, with a graphical interface that hails back to the Windows 3.1 era (actually, the UI was originally designed for MSDOS 6).  There are a number of people here who have experience with other decidedly non-graphical games, such as Action PC Football, APBA Hockey, the Strat-o-Matic games, and so on.  Before that, I was rolling dice and consulting APBA cards, in which my only "graphics" were extremely abstract tables of numbers incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

Football Manager is so much more detailed and immersive than those games that it's not even funny.  And that's why I find all of this hand-wringing about the graphical quality so strange.  It makes me feel like there are people who skip through all the managerial aspects just to get to the next match.

As for FM22, I'm having a hard time trying out a Hexagon Challenge with FM21, knowing that I'll put whatever project I've started aside as soon as the beta comes out.  FM21 was amazing, and I think SI is on the right track as a company.

I can’t follow this argument. 

[Tonton_Zola]

So we have a glorified relabel and a new positional preset.

what happened to the other c. 10 months of dev time since the last release? 

If that were all my team produced in ten months I would be wanting to see time sheets!

[Tonton_Zola]

Just now, Tonton_Zola said:

So we have a glorified relabel and a new positional preset.

what happened to the other c. 10 months of dev time since the last release? 

If that were all my team produced in ten months I would be wanting to see time sheets!

I don’t mean to be unkind - but it is a little frustrating no?

[HUNT3R]

6 minutes ago, Tonton_Zola said:

So we have a glorified relabel and a new positional preset.

what happened to the other c. 10 months of dev time since the last release? 

If that were all my team produced in ten months I would be wanting to see time sheets!

Why not wait for the proper feature reveal, like we had the last few years? We do not have any idea what all the new features are. We do not have any details of the new features. We've had a teaser that teased 2 features. There WILL more be news in the coming weeks, so lets see what they've done first.

[HUNT3R]

10 minutes ago, bobbyb12345 said:

On another point mentioned earlier, I don't watch loads of FM streamers/"content creators" (hate that phrase) - but the bits I've seen why do they play with the highlights so fast? It's like there's a mutual agreement we can't expose the match engine at normal speed so we don't have to point out some of the glaring issues (and this is someone who thinks the ME in 21 is a step forward from 20).

Best bet would be to ask them directly.

[mikelfc8]

Has there ever been a year when the first bit of teased information contained every new innovation?

 

[RocheBag]

17 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

All this talk about the match engine's graphical quality confuses me.

I played FM off and on during FM2011, FM2012, and FM2013.  I don't remember the graphics engine being so extremely superior to the graphical engine we currently have.  I do remember trying to get my high-end laptop to run matches completely in 3D mode back then; usually the computer would crash in the space of an hour.

A lot has been said about FM2017's graphical quality.  I did a search on YouTube for 3D gameplay footage.  I had a hard time finding much.  Most of the content creators at the time seem to have played with the 2D match engine, using the 3D engine only for replays.  Based on what I could see from @lollujo's Non League To Legend series that year, I couldn't see any signs of this incredible 3D engine that people have been talking about.  The stadiums in particular looked even more generic than they do today.  Other content creators didn't seem much different.

Now, this could be because these content creators played with a lot of graphical features turned off.  However, my instincts tell me that looking at a few screenshots is a lot different from looking at actual gameplay from the time.  I can't even boot up FM2017 on Steam to test it out on my current machine, since it's not a 64-bit game.

In other words, don't sell the current graphics team short.

Perhaps part of the problem is that our expectations are all different.  I don't come from the world of FIFA and other graphical games.  I became interested in FM through the Diamond Mind Baseball community.  Diamond Mind is a text-based sim, with a graphical interface that hails back to the Windows 3.1 era (actually, the UI was originally designed for MSDOS 6).  There are a number of people here who have experience with other decidedly non-graphical games, such as Action PC Football, APBA Hockey, the Strat-o-Matic games, and so on.  Before that, I was rolling dice and consulting APBA cards, in which my only "graphics" were extremely abstract tables of numbers incomprehensible to the uninitiated.

Football Manager is so much more detailed and immersive than those games that it's not even funny.  And that's why I find all of this hand-wringing about the graphical quality so strange.  It makes me feel like there are people who skip through all the managerial aspects just to get to the next match.

As for FM22, I'm having a hard time trying out a Hexagon Challenge with FM21, knowing that I'll put whatever project I've started aside as soon as the beta comes out.  FM21 was amazing, and I think SI is on the right track as a company.

Yeah words can't even describe how far down my priority list graphical quality is. I question why anyone would prioritize graphics over actual gameplay in a game like this.

[Tonton_Zola]

14 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

 

 

I have added second screenshot in my initial post because saturation was too high on the first one, I agree with that. But example, to me, this second screenshot from 2017 looks better than 2021

Way better 

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, mikelfc8 said:

Has there ever been a year when the first bit of teased information contained every new innovation?

 

Nope

[Lempicka]

1 hour ago, RocheBag said:

I question why anyone would prioritize graphics over actual gameplay in a game like this.

I don't think anyone is saying that graphics should be priority over gameplay. No one is expecting FIFA graphics either.

IMHO most are happy with SI's incremental improvement approach. However, enhancing the match day experience by adding more stadia variety and improved pitches (as we have seen in previous versions) would appease most.

 

[Bunkerossian]

I'm hoping for a revamped set piece creator. A more realistic game should have a more realistic way of creating set pieces.

[spiritdonkey]

Any features reveals today?