England vs Senegal, Round of 16. 7PM GMT, Al Bayt Stadium

[Barry Cartman]

9 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

People refuse to accept how good he is, it's bizarre

More bizarre how in a lot of these threads Utd fans are complaining about their players not starting considering how **** they've been for years 

[Barry Cartman]

Fear with Walker on Saturday is like against Real Madrid he's dead after 70 minutes and then we go to **** when he goes off knackered 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Barry Cartman

[Bootador]

Yeah, at least Walker has had a bit more training/game time than we probably hoped for pre-tournament and there's also the mental side - Mbappe knows Walker has gotten the better of him in the past.

[Pukey]

France are fairly similar to us really in that they definitely aren't great defensively but have some great attacking players. Impossible to call how that goes really, though France have the Mbappe edge.

[GunmaN1905]

7 minutes ago, Bootador said:

France haven't been that good in the tournament, just Mbappe has been immense. It's a tough game, but I fancy us with Walker in the team.

I'd say you've been pretty similar.

Questionable at the back, lack of creativity in midfield and immense talent up front. With England's talent being spread out, but Mbappe being the best player of the bunch.

And both teams have managers that will surely think about not conceding first and foremost, so we'll probably be robbed of an all-time classic and witness some cagey affair that gets decided with one goal unless someone scores early.

I actually think that England has more firepower and can win a game with lots of goals, but if it's just one goal, France is more likely to produce it.

Edited December 4, 2022 by GunmaN1905

[Smallen]

Gabriel Clarke is a **** isn’t he

[The_jagster]

Difficult to judge that, but glad it wasn't as nervy as I expected.

Obviously, those two chances for Senegal weren't great but it was dreadful loss of possession and not due to the opposition breaking us down. But Senegal were a bit like they were against Holland, made a game of it in the middle of the pitch but never really looked like creating an opening. Bellingham was everywhere in the first 15 minutes, then obviously did well for the goals, it's so useful having a player who can carry the ball past a man when we are so static as it opens stuff up. Unsurprisingly, we looked better when the opposition had to commit players forward, and once the game was won we played sensibly and never looked like conceding.

Predicted media treatment of France over the week:
France are amazing and the favourites
We have a chance if we can keep Mbappe quiet
Actually, France playing on the front foot plays into our hands with our attacking options and Poland showed they can be got at
Oh well we could never compete with their front three and we've clearly lost to the best team in the tournament.

[SouthCoastRed]

23 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Brian Moore still the greatest commentator in my opinion. Barry Davies a very close second.

Other way round, but top two by a distance

[Pukey]

1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said:

I'd say you've been pretty similar.

Questionable at the back, lack of creativity in midfield and immense talent up front. With England's talent being spread out, but Mbappe being the best player of the bunch.

And both teams have managers that will surely think about not conceding first and foremost, so we'll probably be robbed of an all-time classic and witness some cagey affair that gets decided with one goal unless someone scores early.

I actually think that England has more firepower and can win a game with lots of goals, but if it's just one goal, France is more likely to produce it.

Think that's a pretty fair assessment really.

1 minute ago, Smallen said:

Gabriel Clarke is a **** isn’t he

What's the ***** said?

[SouthCoastRed]

1 minute ago, Smallen said:

Gabriel Clarke is a **** isn’t he

Fits into ITV perfectly

[skybluedave]

Well that was lovely. Really really lovely 

Per usual after game I'm drunk so I might be wrong with my thoughts/spelling. Bellingham was amazing. Everywhere. Got Beckham Greece vibes tonight. He was popping up everywhere. Fantastic performance. 

Kane too I thought, after his goal, was superb. That's the Kane we need. Drop deep when he has too but was still getting in box when he needed too. Loved his performance. And his finish wasn't an easy one. Well taken.

It took 3 games and 88 minutes but I finally heard the Atomic Kitten Southagte song in the pub. Wonderful.

Maguire scares me for France, but will worry about that next week. Gonna just enjoy tonight first.

[XuluBak]

14 minutes ago, Bootador said:

Rice has to play sadly, Phillips isn't ready and Henderson isn't a pure DM as you know.

If it's 343, you don't really need a 6, although, Rice looks a lot better as part of a two, than a lone 6, so maybe it's a non-issue. That looks a real vulnerability, if you play 433, against a side good enough going forward to take advantage though. 

[Smallen]

2 minutes ago, Pukey said:

What's the ***** said?

just asking Southgate too many questions about Sterling. It was like he was trying to catch him out over it.

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said:

More bizarre how in a lot of these threads Utd fans are complaining about their players not starting considering how **** they've been for years 

More bizarre how you'd conclude this when we've been more likely to complain about one of the two United players starting! Think this forum had as many Leeds fans as United fans who would have started Rashford, and not because there are more Leeds fans...

 

[enigmatic]

Rice will be fine if Bellingham comes deep to offer an option that can carry the ball forward or play one twos a bit more often. Not coincidence that when Bellingham's been on the ball we've looked fantastic, and when he's been the other side of a press our midfield has looked missing (first 30 minutes today, USA game until he was subbed off). Bellingham seems like a guy that learns quickly though, which is handy.

[AK22]

Absolute scum who broke into Sterling’s house. Hope everyone is okay. 

[darren1983]

Rice will be desperate to play  

 

 

[m_fenton]

1 minute ago, darren1983 said:

Rice will be desperate to play  

 

 

 

[darren1983]

1 minute ago, m_fenton said:

 

Wales have already gone home though? 

[craigcwwe]

2 hours ago, Astafjevs said:

Rice isn't a player who can operate at the base, as the 'pivot', or whatever you want to call the role. Wasn't great there vs. Wales and he's not playing well there now. It's one of the big reasons why England's buildup has been so bad. Central defenders having to ignore him. 

Unfortunately I don't think England have an alternative 

 

Phillips is much better at moving the ball out from defence into midfield compared to Rice. 

[ArsenalFan7]

jude at city will be pure devastation

alternatively if we are lucky, he might link up with mbappe at real

[skybluedave]

I feel Bellingham is perfect for Liverpool. FSG need to get that chequebook out before selling

[Weezer]

Phone died, along with my voice, but that was brilliant fun! The 2nd half was a bit drab after our 3rd but the atmosphere was brilliant. The Senegal band and the fans in the body paint didn't stop dancing for the entire match, shame they couldn't grab a goal at the end to give them something to cheer about.

Bellingham is a monster in midfield and Saka was back to his best. None of the other players were really tested, seemed a pretty routine from where I was sat.

[skybluedave]

Hendo with more WC knockout goals to his name then Ronaldo 

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

More bizarre how you'd conclude this when we've been more likely to complain about one of the two United players starting! Think this forum had as many Leeds fans as United fans who would have started Rashford, and not because there are more Leeds fans...

 

It's Barry, enough said. 

[Heartwork]

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

Fikayo Tomori could win the Champions League 4 years in a row and 5 Serie A scudetti in a row, and Gareth still wouldn't pick him.

With any luck Gareth won't be there

[Heartwork]

1 hour ago, craigcwwe said:

Phillips is much better at moving the ball out from defence into midfield compared to Rice. 

Yeah but he's on course to become Delph mk2

[Astafjevs]

I don't think Phillips is better than Rice at progressing the ball like that.

It's just a general weakness in England's midfield and what they have available. Bellingham and Rice are great at progressing the ball with carries, but when one has to play as the pivot and progress it with passing, they can't do it. There's no-one available who can from what I see. One of the problems they've had for years, probably since Carrick, that other teams don't suffer from. They need a Rodri/Tchouaméni/Jorginho/Enzo Fernandez type. Or even a different type of number 6/8 that can do it - Verratti, Pedri, Modric etc.

[ajw10]

I don't think Rice is an issue, I think the issue is our two CB's don't progress the ball quickly enough. It's hard for the DM to show for the ball when it takes ages to get to him.

[The Golden boy]

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

The Senegal band and the fans in the body paint didn't stop dancing for the entire match, shame they couldn't grab a goal at the end to give them something to cheer about.

 

From what I saw on TV, the first 'E' looked a bit downhearted during the 2nd half.

[scott MUFC]

i think the winner of the game at the weekend wins the thing...

[Weezer]

5 hours ago, The Golden boy said:

From what I saw on TV, the first 'E' looked a bit downhearted during the 2nd half.

The rhythm had slowed a bit by the end of the game  

[kopsy101]

10 hours ago, Barry Cartman said:

Fear with Walker on Saturday is like against Real Madrid he's dead after 70 minutes and then we go to **** when he goes off knackered 

I feel like that's a false narrative because, 1. Wasn't he half fit? 2. he put all his eggs into the sprints and roughly came out on top, but what he did with the ball and being in position was not a priority that night; they almost scored multiple times from his position or from him giving it away. The last minute implosion was just ridiculous.

He needs to start against Mbappe though, as much as I think that Trippier is better defensively, Walker is the only one who can keep up with him when Mbappe knocks it past you. The only problem may be that France will play higher up in Englands territory than Senegal did, so if Mbappe does to Walker even once, what Sarr did 3/4 times yesterday, it could be game over. I think it'll be a tight, cagey match though. Henderson and Walker should be enough to cover Mbappe with Rice blocking 1-2's.

We forget that Dembele is an absolute player too. I do think Shaw and Walker are good enough though when they put their mind to it and when put in a defensive system.

Bellingham is gonna go to the very top, I hope to god City don't get him. Last thing we need is another KdB.

[skybluedave]

If I had to pick a right side to contain Mbappe then not sure I'd pick many others then Walker/Saka combo on the right and Stones covering but while I'd like to think England wouldn't let that Mbappe's first Poland goal happen, that 2nd goal is unstoppable and doesn't matter who plays.

[Lucas]

Aren't we likely to go to a back 3 against France? Seems like the assumption here is sticking with a back 4?

I'd have thought Gareth might go with:

Walker/Maguire/Stones with Tripper/Shaw as the WBs. 

Henderson / Bellingham / Rice

Saka / Foden

Kane

[Anthrax Dave]

If he goes to a back 3, and we lose, it will be the end for Southgate.

Stick as we are, let the French fear us.

[Darius1998]

3 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Aren't we likely to go to a back 3 against France? Seems like the assumption here is sticking with a back 4?

I'd have thought Gareth might go with:

Walker/Maguire/Stones with Tripper/Shaw as the WBs. 

Henderson / Bellingham / Rice

Saka / Foden

Kane

11 outfield players? Seems a little bold with Mbappe's form!

[Lucas]

1 minute ago, Darius1998 said:

11 outfield players? Seems a little bold with Mbappe's form!

Haha, should have counted  Well, who needs Pickford. 

Actually, drop Henderson I guess.

[pearcey_90]

8 hours ago, ajw10 said:

I don't think Rice is an issue, I think the issue is our two CB's don't progress the ball quickly enough. It's hard for the DM to show for the ball when it takes ages to get to him.

In that first 30 minute, he was non existent and it was mostly on him. Just stayed static in middle which meant the CBs couldn't pass to him, he then wouldn't drop off to receive the ball, meaning the CBs can split more and then he could pass through the lines (this though probably would've failed as Bellingham/Henderson were high/wide most of the time.

When the CBs moved it to one of the full backs, again, Rice wouldn't show staying static in centre which meant the pass was either back to the CB or a square pass to the winger which resulted in possession in being lost. First 15 minutes it was walking football, than Senegal realised they could press a few yards higher as the passes were non existent and got a good amount of joy.

Then from one of the square passes to Foden, his brilliance to back heel flick meant Kane had the ball then we was away, good decision making from Kane then Bellingham, good finish and rest is history as Senegal just folded. 

Basically have to work on why the hell we played like we did first 30, because that was bad and something France will have watched and be ready to pounce on if we are the same. Just need the CMs a bit more closer to Rice, and then Rice a bit more braver to want the ball in tight spaces/dropping off. I think it was more a tactical decision rather than player preference, which will hopefully see it corrected.

[skybluedave]

32 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Haha, should have counted  Well, who needs Pickford. 

Actually, drop Henderson I guess.

This is the problem with moving to back 3. You have to drop either Henderson or Bellingham and that doesn't sit right after last 2 games. 

Henderson especially has superb since coming into team. He's played well, is a vocal leader and organiser. I'd want him facing France for sure

[Confused Clarity]

12 hours ago, Smallen said:

Gabriel Clarke is a **** isn’t he

What's he done now?

[The_jagster]

3 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said:

What's he done now?

Might have got lost in the thread but pushing Southgate about Sterling apparently.

 

Of the normal ITV mistakes I did enjoy Pougatch being drowned out by some loud music playing over the top. Shame we had to hear Matterface's cringe prepared lines about socks and something John Stones has said

[Smallen]

19 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said:

What's he done now?

Asked Southgate about Sterling and whether he’d be back for the rest of the tournament. Southgate gave a comprehensive answer, said he was dealing with a family/personal issue and that they would have to see how it pans out.

Clarke then asked whether Sterling would be going home, to which Southgate said yes. Then Clarke asked him if he’d be back again despite Southgate already answering that! This doesn’t sound as bad as it actually was, but it was proper bottom feeder journo stuff where he was trying to pry juicy details out of Southgate whilst dressing it up as concern for Sterling.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Smallen

[Confused Clarity]

4 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Asked Southgate about Sterling and whether he’d be back for the rest of the tournament. Southgate gave a comprehensive answer, said he was dealing with a family/personal issue and that they would have to see how it pans out.

Clarke then asked whether Sterling would be going home, to which Southgate said yes. Then Clarke asked him if he’d be back again despite Southgate already answering that! This doesn’t sound as bad as it actually was, but it was proper bottom feeder journo stuff where he was trying to pry juicy details out of Southgate whilst dressing it up as concern for Sterling.

I hate when sports journalists try to pretend to be real journalists almost as much as political journalists abdicating all responsibility to real journalism.