Football Manager 2021 - Out November 24th

[Rashidi]

I am surprised that very few mentioned the most obvious thing FM 21 seems to have in its preview - Licensed logos, it appears for a split second. I do have one slight concern which could turn into a major concern but i am waiting for the 2nd sneak peek to make a comment.

[janrzm]

I think everyone feels frustrated with the games progress from time to time, especially in relation to the ME. However, any argument around the cost of the game or value for money is an absolute non-starter IMO. Compare this game to any other form of entertainment you pay for and once you've played it for 6hrs you are in positive territory....... most people play it for hundreds even thousands of hours. I wasn't that keen on FM20 but thanks to Covid it still only cost me less than 2p per hour played. 

[janrzm]

3 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I am surprised that very few mentioned the most obvious thing FM 21 seems to have in its preview - Licensed logos, it appears for a split second. I do have one slight concern which could turn into a major concern but i am waiting for the 2nd sneak peek to make a comment.

Is that because so many people download the logo packs etc that actual licensed versions don't count for too much.

Most You Tubers seem to think its limited to Leicester City did you spot something else? Possibly a licensed version like last years Arsenal one?

 

[stevemc]

34 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Is that because so many people download the logo packs etc that actual licensed versions don't count for too much.

Most You Tubers seem to think its limited to Leicester City did you spot something else? Possibly a licensed version like last years Arsenal one?

 

I think next to Leicester City's logo it still said "Premier Division" suggesting the Premier League isn't fully licensed, maybe?

[KiLLu12258]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

 

 

Meanwhile people want FIFA graphics lol.

wtf. i dont get this really.

Who wants fifa graphics? But can guys like you understant that this looks still like a early 2000 game graphic wise and there is a LOT to improve at this aspect.

Im a bit tired of it really. No one can truly say that the match presentation looks "real" It doesnt.  Not graphic wise and not how the players move. It looks bad.

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by KiLLu12258

[Cartopis84]

TBH I Just want players to develop based on how well they play as currently it seems like rating doesn't have much impact on development compared to match time. Also would like there to be a better way to know the best/most popular players and young players 20-30 years into a save as currently on the global players screen its mostly based on reputation which means that even above average players get on it if they got a big transfer while one club players playing really well don't gain as much rep.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, stevemc said:

I think next to Leicester City's logo it still said "Premier Division" suggesting the Premier League isn't fully licensed, maybe?

Yeah its most likely only Leicester's logo if the Premier League isn't fully licensed.

[forameuss]

2 hours ago, saihtam said:

They had huge oportunity here. Should have done like Konami did with PES. Take one year break, give out a season update with few tweaks to ME, but go BIG with next edition. They could ask some money for it and noone would be mad if they put all their effort into FM22 with 2 years of work. I really dont want to hear exuses that they are not that big compan, money issues etc. Every year they are top sellers on Steam for long time, they have deals with Epic and Microsoft for specific cash flow. They have all what is needed.

Yes this pandemic hit every one of us in one way or another. But if they ask the same price like always saying it wont have such updates as planned, then it feels still a bit unfair(And if seriously new thing is that Sharpness and condition now just have colors to show... well skin will fix it(or maybe option in settings), but these move seems a step back. Everyone needed to adobt and I see more tech companies being even more succesful working from home. Our own company work effecienty has going up the last 5-6 months compared to previous years.

This gets talked about a lot in the FIFA "community" (if you can class a muddy stable full of angry pigs a community) and it's being way over-egged.  People see Konami doing that and start rejoicing, talking about how amazing it is, and what a good decision.  Except no-one can possibly say that until they see what the results are.  You say "go big" with next edition, but what is that based on?  Konami have constantly failed to take the mantle from EA, even while it seems a large chunk of people playing FIFA actively hate it.  Konami are taking an absolutely enormous risk with no guarantee of success.

People massively oversimplify when it comes to talking about this.  Skipping an edition doesn't automatically mean you've now got a whole year to work on features.  People automatically expect more from you because of the gap, so you have to deliver more, which means more testing...and on and on we go until we end up with an edition that probably looks roughly similar to what we would have gotten anyway.  

Quote

Everyone needed to adobt and I see more tech companies being even more succesful working from home. Our own company work effecienty has going up the last 5-6 months compared to previous years.

Again, massively oversimplifying.  Certain people will take to working from home like a duck to water, and it'll mean an increase in productivity.  Others, absolutely not.  I worked from home one day a week when things were normal, and that suited me.  I now hate working from home, and can't wait to get back into the office in order to get back to proper productivity.  Everyone handles it differently, and I'd imagine for every person who believes it's been a great success, there will be one thinking the complete opposite.

[alexcati11]

17 hours ago, sedge11 said:

So if you didn’t buy fm20 how can you say it was unplayable.

Ive been playing during covid when was free. sedge11 m8 im not here to argue with anyone or to prove someone that i was playing fm19 or no, i was just saying my thought. Ive been playing since championship manager with maybe 3-4 years stopping because real life. im one of many that really love this game.

Edited October 13, 2020 by alexcati11

[Svenc]

6 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Personally speaking, I worry that people are going to look at xG numbers and go...

 

The biggest use of xG is actually over the longer term, as in an individual match of football, anything goes (even over a comparably longer spell of matches, much goes). Football remains a very random sport where one week a team drops the points to two wonder strikes, and the other every other shot goes in. It's just that a team that consistently creates better chances over the longer term may have the higher chance of winning matches. 

If it's properly linked to the data analyst, then he should do some of the more useful crunching, e.g. 

https://statsbomb.com/2019/01/can-borussia-dortmund-win-the-bundesliga/

 

Also if it works, it's going to be a game changer for many from my experience. From my experience, the subjective chance analysis (from playing as well as longer watching experience) of most FM players is pretty damn bad. You can barely blame them, as "sensationalist" punditry on TV selling football as an exciting product of entertainment is also pretty bad on that (according to all their "should have scored" cliches, the average scoreline in football was 5-5).  

Edited October 13, 2020 by Svenc

[BuryBlade]

57 minutes ago, KiLLu12258 said:

wtf. i dont get this really.

Who wants fifa graphics? But can guys like you understant that this looks still like a early 2000 game graphic wise and there is a LOT to improve at this aspect.

Im a bit tired of it really. No one can truly say that the match presentation looks "real" It doesnt.  Not graphic wise and not how the players move. It looks bad.

 

I think most players who’ve played FM for years don’t want or expect FIFA graphics. Not only that, it’s unnecessary. 

What’s needed is a match engine that actually resembles the way football is played in real life.

No ‘Ice skating’ players

Far less shots from ridiculous angles instead of passing it across the goal

Improved one on ones - both animation and decision making

Improved defender animations/decision making so they don’t just stand there until dispossessed or stand on top of the ball and lose it

Wide players having more variety in their play as opposed to running to the byline, stopping and waiting until they are closed down before smacking the ball against the defenders legs

A better set piece creator would be nice. If not, fix the current one so that the players actually adopt the positions  they are set to

Visually, the stadiums, crowd and pitch colouring and textures looked far better in FM17. This seems to have gone backwards the last 3 years.

 

[Hovis Dexter]

Not keen on sharpness and condition showing as colours only. This is retrograde step because with colours there has to be an underlying numeric divide meaning that somebody with sharpness and condition of, say, 90% could show as green on both indicators but as amber if the underlying figure was, say, 89%. When in reality there is minimal difference between 89% and 90%.

[craigcwwe]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Yeah its most likely only Leicester's logo if the Premier League isn't fully licensed.

Saw Miles post on Twitter that SI have a marketing deal with Leicester. 

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, BuryBlade said:

I think most players who’ve played FM for years don’t want or expect FIFA graphics. Not only that, it’s unnecessary. 

What’s needed is a match engine that actually resembles the way football is played in real life.

No ‘Ice skating’ players

Far less shots from ridiculous angles instead of passing it across the goal

Improved one on ones - both animation and decision making

Improved defender animations/decision making so they don’t just stand there until dispossessed or stand on top of the ball and lose it

Wide players having more variety in their play as opposed to running to the byline, stopping and waiting until they are closed down before smacking the ball against the defenders legs

A better set piece creator would be nice. If not, fix the current one so that the players actually adopt the positions  they are set to

Visually, the stadiums, crowd and pitch colouring and textures looked far better in FM17. This seems to have gone backwards the last 3 years.

 

Totally agree, I like the FM graphics I just want them to actually show what the ME is trying to tell us. Things like player tussles instead of that tripping up animation. Visible shirt pulls,  the commentary says something like "Player X held back player Y" but you don't see it, you just see a player running behind another & the one in front stumbles. Keeper's visually flattening players when they claim a corner or cross. Chris Wood the other week against Leicester physically shoved Justin off the ball before he scored, stuff like that.       

[Clifton]

Are these trailers only going to be on Twitter?   Or is it somewhere here and I can't find it!

[leviathan1904]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Hovis Dexter:

Not keen on sharpness and condition showing as colours only. This is retrograde step because with colours there has to be an underlying numeric divide meaning that somebody with sharpness and condition of, say, 90% could show as green on both indicators but as amber if the underlying figure was, say, 89%. When in reality there is minimal difference between 89% and 90%.

In reality you can not distanguish between 89% and 90%, but it is more about a guess. Therefore, a categorial difference would be an improvement.

[JordanMilly]

44 minutes ago, Clifton said:

Are these trailers only going to be on Twitter?   Or is it somewhere here and I can't find it!

They're on Youtube as well.

[Cal585]

1 hour ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Not keen on sharpness and condition showing as colours only. This is retrograde step because with colours there has to be an underlying numeric divide meaning that somebody with sharpness and condition of, say, 90% could show as green on both indicators but as amber if the underlying figure was, say, 89%. When in reality there is minimal difference between 89% and 90%.

I don't necessarily mind the shift to visual instead of hard figures, I just hope they consider the colour blind among us with whatever they implement if we're supposed to judge based on glancing at a coloured meter.

[Amarante]

4 hours ago, KiLLu12258 said:

wtf. i dont get this really.

Who wants fifa graphics? But can guys like you understant that this looks still like a early 2000 game graphic wise and there is a LOT to improve at this aspect.

Im a bit tired of it really. No one can truly say that the match presentation looks "real" It doesnt.  Not graphic wise and not how the players move. It looks bad.

 

You don't play FM for graphics though, a sizeable part of this player base don't even use 3D they use 2D. You can see that your tactics are working from 2D movement of dots. 

[Mr U Rosler]

2 hours ago, leviathan1904 said:

In reality you can not distanguish between 89% and 90%, but it is more about a guess. Therefore, a categorial difference would be an improvement.

More colours, less numbers might be a consideration of the game becoming console friendly. 

An icon with colour grading will look better on a big TV then a %. 

A move to a more visual presentation. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

40 minutes ago, Amarante said:

You don't play FM for graphics though, a sizeable part of this player base don't even use 3D they use 2D. You can see that your tactics are working from 2D movement of dots. 

Yeah. It's much bigger fish to fry. i rather have a 2000 looking graphic game that plays realistic football than a great looking bad game any day.

[Artin]

hopefully they show something REALLY GOOD soon!

cyberpunk 2077 is coming a week before FM21 so that's where my money is going. i'm thinking of buying FM21 when it goes on sale in 2022 but i'm hoping they show something revolutionary so i can buy that instead of cyberpunk. if it's just the usual recoloring or rearranging of UI then it's an easy decision.

so come on SI, make it harder for m e!!!

Edited October 13, 2020 by Artin

[leviathan1904]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb Mr U Rosler:

More colours, less numbers might be a consideration of the game becoming console friendly. 

An icon with colour grading will look better on a big TV then a %. 

A move to a more visual presentation. 

This. And, as far as I remember it correctly, those 2-in-1 stats caused column issues when you customize views. 

[saihtam]

4 hours ago, forameuss said:

This gets talked about a lot in the FIFA "community" (if you can class a muddy stable full of angry pigs a community) and it's being way over-egged.  People see Konami doing that and start rejoicing, talking about how amazing it is, and what a good decision.  Except no-one can possibly say that until they see what the results are.  You say "go big" with next edition, but what is that based on?  Konami have constantly failed to take the mantle from EA, even while it seems a large chunk of people playing FIFA actively hate it.  Konami are taking an absolutely enormous risk with no guarantee of success.

People massively oversimplify when it comes to talking about this.  Skipping an edition doesn't automatically mean you've now got a whole year to work on features.  People automatically expect more from you because of the gap, so you have to deliver more, which means more testing...and on and on we go until we end up with an edition that probably looks roughly similar to what we would have gotten anyway. 

It is not oversimplifying. it is clearly seeable with games that are released every year, the value they bring in a year is not that trastic and will become more minimal, specialy if they keep patching and updating a game longer time trough the year. With nothing you could say it will work out or not. But giving time to implament and process things trough, taking time to test and make a bit more mayor changes to the game all would benefit from the one year skip. Maybe they are already working on something new for FM22 or FM23, but theyr full squad of developers are on FM 21. Main concern is and will be the next year iteration.

There are ofcourse big risk in doing this, but it can be midigated with good communication to fans etc. Start please dev blog posts and show where development is going etc.

Konamis biggest risk is with new engine, definetly it wont be up to standards at first but it is still huge move they are willing to take and risk. That still shows to community that they desire more improvments not make the jump in year, still sell half baked product and hope the best.

[He can't believe he's missed it]

Forgive my ignorance on this if I'm miles off but wasn't one of the biggest issues with CCC that the ME would classify something as a clear chance that blatantly wasn't? So in theory if the ME was rigged/nerfed however you want to call it to reduce the effectiveness of certain chances because they came up so much then the clear cut chance was in the realm of the me world and not what would represent a ccc in the real world?

It could be interesting to see how the XG model works out because if it's using a real life XG model in the same way it uses data in a real life game then it could show up a lot of inconsistences with the ME and the type of chances it's created and not converting?

That might not be brilliantly worded but I hope someone gets what I mean ?!

[Kingstontom88]

19 hours ago, XaW said:

Nice to see the preview. Doesn't seem to be major stuff to "wow" the feature freaks, so I really hope the bulk of the effort are put into the match engine. And since they have introduced xG I would think that it would have had a significant rewrite.

Didn't just about everyone in all those threads tell SI to keep the rest of the game as is and only do ME this version? Would you be happy if that was the case?

*puts hand up*

[saiyaman]

5 hours ago, forameuss said:

This gets talked about a lot in the FIFA "community" (if you can class a muddy stable full of angry pigs a community) and it's being way over-egged.  People see Konami doing that and start rejoicing, talking about how amazing it is, and what a good decision.  Except no-one can possibly say that until they see what the results are.  You say "go big" with next edition, but what is that based on?  Konami have constantly failed to take the mantle from EA, even while it seems a large chunk of people playing FIFA actively hate it.  Konami are taking an absolutely enormous risk with no guarantee of success.

People massively oversimplify when it comes to talking about this.  Skipping an edition doesn't automatically mean you've now got a whole year to work on features.  People automatically expect more from you because of the gap, so you have to deliver more, which means more testing...and on and on we go until we end up with an edition that probably looks roughly similar to what we would have gotten anyway.  

Again, massively oversimplifying.  Certain people will take to working from home like a duck to water, and it'll mean an increase in productivity.  Others, absolutely not.  I worked from home one day a week when things were normal, and that suited me.  I now hate working from home, and can't wait to get back into the office in order to get back to proper productivity.  Everyone handles it differently, and I'd imagine for every person who believes it's been a great success, there will be one thinking the complete opposite.

There's a good reason why FIFA added a 2d view to Manager Mode. They've realized that Manager mode requires these things and just pretending to be a pretty husk still means it's a husk. I see FIFA going the FM way for Manager mode because honestly their manager mode is laughable kiddie stuff with cutscenes. Same for PES as well

Oh and Konami failing to take the mantle is mostly due to Ultimate Team fans and other fans who think a good football game is pretty graphics, presentation than actual gameplay.

[JordanMilly]

2 hours ago, Cal585 said:

I don't necessarily mind the shift to visual instead of hard figures, I just hope they consider the colour blind among us with whatever they implement if we're supposed to judge based on glancing at a coloured meter.

FM has options to change the colours for all the numbers, graphics, etc, which included condition and sharpness - I don't see that changing.

[forameuss]

29 minutes ago, saihtam said:

It is not oversimplifying. it is clearly seeable with games that are released every year, the value they bring in a year is not that trastic and will become more minimal, specialy if they keep patching and updating a game longer time trough the year. With nothing you could say it will work out or not. But giving time to implament and process things trough, taking time to test and make a bit more mayor changes to the game all would benefit from the one year skip. Maybe they are already working on something new for FM22 or FM23, but theyr full squad of developers are on FM 21. Main concern is and will be the next year iteration.

There are ofcourse big risk in doing this, but it can be midigated with good communication to fans etc. Start please dev blog posts and show where development is going etc.

Konamis biggest risk is with new engine, definetly it wont be up to standards at first but it is still huge move they are willing to take and risk. That still shows to community that they desire more improvments not make the jump in year, still sell half baked product and hope the best.

It's absolutely oversimplifying it to say "well, other games it works with".  It doesn't matter how well they communicate with their fans, the risk will remain large that 2022 comes out, and it's largely uninspiring.  They're gambling what's already a weak product in the hope that they can make a big difference.  If they fail after that, they're in trouble.  Particularly when people like you are already talking about what a good decision it was.  Hype never ends well in the gaming industry.

They could end up knocking it out of the park, taking over the mantle and becoming the dominant developer in the genre.  Or, slightly more likely, they release the same disappointing product they have been doing.  Hence, the risk.

Just now, saiyaman said:

There's a good reason why FIFA added a 2d view to Manager Mode. They've realized that Manager mode requires these things and just pretending to be a pretty husk still means it's a husk. I see FIFA going the FM way for Manager mode because honestly their manager mode is laughable kiddie stuff with cutscenes. Same for PES as well

Oh and Konami failing to take the mantle is mostly due to Ultimate Team fans and other fans who think a good football game is pretty graphics, presentation than actual gameplay.

It's largely due to PES, overall, being an inferior product, to be honest.   The gap isn't as large, but there's a good analogy to be drawn between FIFA/PES and FM/FIFA Manager.  FIFA/FM are by no means perfect, but are better than the competition was. Saying that it's purely aesthetics is just elitist, contrarian nonsense.

[Dagenham_Dave]

9 minutes ago, saiyaman said:

There's a good reason why FIFA added a 2d view to Manager Mode.

It's laughably bad, and when you take all the shiny 3D visuals away, it shows quite starkly how inferior the actual match engine of FIFA is compared to FM. 

[saiyaman]

6 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

It's laughably bad, and when you take all the shiny 3D visuals away, it shows quite starkly how inferior the actual match engine of FIFA is compared to FM. 

  Yeah. I would rage quit if I had to play FIFA or PES manager mode. It's so amateur it's not even worth mentioning to tie FM's shoe laces.

7 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It's absolutely oversimplifying it to say "well, other games it works with".  It doesn't matter how well they communicate with their fans, the risk will remain large that 2022 comes out, and it's largely uninspiring.  They're gambling what's already a weak product in the hope that they can make a big difference.  If they fail after that, they're in trouble.  Particularly when people like you are already talking about what a good decision it was.  Hype never ends well in the gaming industry.

They could end up knocking it out of the park, taking over the mantle and becoming the dominant developer in the genre.  Or, slightly more likely, they release the same disappointing product they have been doing.  Hence, the risk.

It's largely due to PES, overall, being an inferior product, to be honest.   The gap isn't as large, but there's a good analogy to be drawn between FIFA/PES and FM/FIFA Manager.  FIFA/FM are by no means perfect, but are better than the competition was. Saying that it's purely aesthetics is just elitist, contrarian nonsense.

To be honest I disagree. When I saw PES 20 videos and FIFA 20 videos I had to pinch and blink when I was watching PES it felt like real life football. FIFA looks like a arcade kiddie version.

I do agree overall PES isn't pretty. But FIFA is basically FM 17 with extra features and "Pass the ball better" or "OMG attackers can actually anticipate and run instead of standing still". All I had to say after such laughable features was "u wot mate?"

[forameuss]

19 minutes ago, saiyaman said:

To be honest I disagree. When I saw PES 20 videos and FIFA 20 videos I had to pinch and blink when I was watching PES it felt like real life football. FIFA looks like a arcade kiddie version.

I do agree overall PES isn't pretty. But FIFA is basically FM 17 with extra features and "Pass the ball better" or "OMG attackers can actually anticipate and run instead of standing still". All I had to say after such laughable features was "u wot mate?"

So you watched videos, and deemed just from them that one felt like "real life football" and one didn't?  Seems like pre-conceived notions to me.

Neither product is very good, neither product does everything well, both have glaring weaknesses.  Overall though, the better one is from EA.  And to be honest, you can talk about how FIFA is all style and no substance, but maybe Konami should actually realise that style is actually quite important at times.  

But we're not here to debate the finer points of two completely unrelated games to FM.  To bring it back relating to that, I'd be very, very worried if SI went down the route Konami are trying.

[Gee_Simpson]

Gameplay is most important to me and in that area PES absolutely destroys Fifa, Fifa is a joke and only sells well because of the name and licenses. Even when PES was at its most popular it still couldn't beat Fifa in sales. Sales mean nothing to me. 

[Jorgen_B]

As I  said: nothing new, nothing ... I think this is a manifestation of disrespect for the fans of the game.

[saiyaman]

2 hours ago, forameuss said:

So you watched videos, and deemed just from them that one felt like "real life football" and one didn't?  Seems like pre-conceived notions to me.

Neither product is very good, neither product does everything well, both have glaring weaknesses.  Overall though, the better one is from EA.  And to be honest, you can talk about how FIFA is all style and no substance, but maybe Konami should actually realise that style is actually quite important at times.  

But we're not here to debate the finer points of two completely unrelated games to FM.  To bring it back relating to that, I'd be very, very worried if SI went down the route Konami are trying.

I feel you're jumping to conclusions about "preconceived notions". I'm primarily a FIFA player but I have also played PES all the way through Winning Eleven. Just not PES and FIFA 20.

I have better knowledge about both products thanks to my own personal experience and what I have seen through videos.

Both fifa and pes are cut rate trash when it comes to football management.

But yes let's not derail the thread anymore.

[-Jef-]

Am I the only one that is actually hyped about the game? xG, agent interactions (CHECK PLAYER AVAILABILITY), better interactions, better pressers. All stuff you lot asked for and got in a short teaser trailer. And we have not even touched on the ME. I swear this forum is sometimes the most toxic cesspool of people and it's getting worse. Maybe it's the furstration of covid-19 speaking or something else but to say that nothing has changed and that nothing is new is asinine in my opinion. There will be a longer breakdown of features in the future. 

 

People are moaning about ***** positioning of defenders and ask for better ME. You people do realize that players make mistakes? How did Lpool play the other week when they got absolutely smashed? Would you save scum, ask on forums what's wrong and yell that the game is broken if that happened to you? How many times have we seen players do stupid things on the field? Good ME allows for players to make mistakes, be poorly positioned etc. Is ME perfect? No. Is it bad? HELL NO. Go and play FIFA, PES on simulation and actually watch the game and ignore the graphical fidelity. It is nothing like football we see on FM and for a good reason. Their ME sucks camel ass. There are some glaring issues and limitations with the current ME and we work around those things as well as with tactics creator. 

 

The comments from the past few pages really made me angry that peoeple are moaning and complaining about everything - nothing about feature, why so short TRAILER(?), why pre-orders, why this why that. 

 

If the game or developer are making you mad about something as minor as dripping the information leading to the release (to get us hyped, and all game devs do it that release yearly) then you need to take a deep breath, go read a book, call your family or friends and have a chat with them (be responsible!), take a stroll around the neighborhood (be responsible!), take up working out - something else cos obviously that this might just not be for you.

 

As for me? I will be preordering the game as soon as I get my next paycheck which should be tomorrow. Do not remember the last time I had as much fun playing FM as this year. Truly an escape from the worst year in my life - grandma dying, covid19, two life-threatening earthquakes, breaking up with gf after 4 years and something that's not as personal but still affected me - Kobe dying. Time and time again FM has enabled me to dive in for a bit and escape all the bad stuff that has happened in my life in this year. (not saying i've had the worst year of you all...). No other game has offered me that this year and for that reason alone I will pre-order the game as I did for last who-knows how many years. 1200 hours and counting. Bringing AC Milan to it's glory, bringing Bolton to Prem, making Famalicao best team in Portugal (rip career thread due to me being lazy), reviving Heerenveen atm... 

 

Love you all, stay responsible!

Edited October 13, 2020 by rosque

[treble_yell_:-)]

9 hours ago, KiLLu12258 said:

wtf. i dont get this really.

Who wants fifa graphics? But can guys like you understant that this looks still like a early 2000 game graphic wise and there is a LOT to improve at this aspect.

Im a bit tired of it really. No one can truly say that the match presentation looks "real" It doesnt.  Not graphic wise and not how the players move. It looks bad.

 

It's just a lazy defense from folk who don't want to enter a discussion in good faith.

The minimum specs for the game are a low end GPU from 2008 and a Pentium 4 !

Recommended specs are simply " 64-bit processor"

But folk will jump to the "LoLgOpLaYfIfA" argument any time it's brought up.

There are definitely issues with the graphical representation of the game and how poorly the stick men skating across a snooker table represents a game of football, and that's without addressing the animations.

One does wonder how much SI are held back by their rigid determination to ensuring the game runs on a toaster. We've just went an entire gaming generation with developers complaining how badly the CPU's in consoles have held back stuff like AI, yet here we are on PC playing a simulation that only requires a 12 year old CPU/GPU combo to play.

 

[davehanson]

10 minutes ago, rosque said:

Am I the only one that is actually hyped about the game? xG, agent interactions (CHECK PLAYER AVAILABILITY), better interactions, better pressers. All stuff you lot asked for and got in a short teaser trailer. And we have not even touched on the ME. I swear this forum is sometimes the most toxic cesspool of people and it's getting worse. Maybe it's the furstration of covid-19 speaking or something else but to say that nothing has changed and that nothing is new is asinine in my opinion. There will be a longer breakdown of features in the future. 

 

People are moaning about ***** positioning of defenders and ask for better ME. You people do realize that players make mistakes? How did Lpool play the other week when they got absolutely smashed? Would you save scum, ask on forums what's wrong and yell that the game is broken if that happened to you? How many times have we seen players do stupid things on the field? Good ME allows for players to make mistakes, be poorly positioned etc. Is ME perfect? No. Is it bad? HELL NO. Go and play FIFA, PES on simulation and actually watch the game and ignore the graphical fidelity. It is nothing like football we see on FM and for a good reason. Their ME sucks camel ass. There are some glaring issues and limitations with the current ME and we work around those things as well as with tactics creator. 

 

The comments from the past few pages really made me angry that peoeple are moaning and complaining about everything - nothing about feature, why so short TRAILER(?), why pre-orders, why this why that. 

 

If the game or developer are making you mad about something as minor as dripping the information leading to the release (to get us hyped, and all game devs do it that release yearly) then you need to take a deep breath, go read a book, call your family or friends and have a chat with them (be responsible!), take a stroll around the neighborhood (be responsible!), take up working out - something else cos obviously that this might just not be for you.

 

As for me? I will be preordering the game as soon as I get my next paycheck which should be tomorrow. Do not remember the last time I had as much fun playing FM as this year. Truly an escape from the worst year in my life - grandma dying, covid19, two life-threatening earthquakes, breaking up with gf after 4 years and something that's not as personal but still affected me - Kobe dying. Time and time again FM has enabled me to dive in for a bit and escape all the bad stuff that has happened in my life in this year. (not saying i've had the worst year of you all...). No other game has offered me that this year and for that reason alone I will pre-order the game as I did for last who-knows how many years. 1200 hours and counting. Bringing AC Milan to it's glory, bringing Bolton to Prem, making Famalicao best team in Portugal (rip career thread due to me being lazy), reviving Heerenveen atm... 

 

Love you all, stay responsible!

Don't understand why you are getting so worked up over other peoples views. Everyone is entitled to their own view and they should be able to air those views as long as they stay respectful and polite.

I do not agree with pretty much everything you say to be honest. However, I respect that is your opinion. I only saw one thing new from the trailer - the body language thing which I already have concerns over - that we didn't get in FM20 in one way or the other. What else would you say was new from the trailer you have seen?

For me, like I guess a lot of other players, I really didn't want anything new. I wanted SI to fix what was to me a poor ME. I have, so far, seen no evidence that this has happened. I may be wrong but I would have thought that the ME was the main criticism of FM20 and as such if SI had radically reworked it then it would have been at least teased in the trailer. 

You go on about PES and FIFA having worse ME's than FM. You, and anyone else mentioning it, are completely missing the point. FIFA and PES are by and large games in which you actually control the players and play the matches yourself. The management mode is a sub mode of the main game. FM is all about the ME. Nothing else. There is no point in FM if the ME is not up to scratch. I do not know one person that plays FIFA to watch simulated matches. I am sure the majority of FM players watch what is going on during a game.

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Don't understand why you are getting so worked up over other peoples views. Everyone is entitled to their own view and they should be able to air those views as long as they stay respectful and polite.

I do not agree with pretty much everything you say to be honest. However, I respect that is your opinion. I only saw one thing new from the trailer - the body language thing which I already have concerns over - that we didn't get in FM20 in one way or the other. What else would you say was new from the trailer you have seen?

For me, like I guess a lot of other players, I really didn't want anything new. I wanted SI to fix what was to me a poor ME. I have, so far, seen no evidence that this has happened. I may be wrong but I would have thought that the ME was the main criticism of FM20 and as such if SI had radically reworked it then it would have been at least teased in the trailer. 

You go on about PES and FIFA having worse ME's than FM. You, and anyone else mentioning it, are completely missing the point. FIFA and PES are by and large games in which you actually control the players and play the matches yourself. The management mode is a sub mode of the main game. FM is all about the ME. Nothing else. There is no point in FM if the ME is not up to scratch. I do not know one person that plays FIFA to watch simulated matches. I am sure the majority of FM players watch what is going on during a game.

I'd like to know where you saw XG in FM20...

[davehanson]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'd like to know where you saw XG in FM20...

But you can get most of what that will give you through the analysis page, no?

[themadsheep2001]

18 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

It's just a lazy defense from folk who don't want to enter a discussion in good faith.

The minimum specs for the game are a low end GPU from 2008 and a Pentium 4 !

Recommended specs are simply " 64-bit processor"

But folk will jump to the "LoLgOpLaYfIfA" argument any time it's brought up.

There are definitely issues with the graphical representation of the game and how poorly the stick men skating across a snooker table represents a game of football, and that's without addressing the animations.

One does wonder how much SI are held back by their rigid determination to ensuring the game runs on a toaster. We've just went an entire gaming generation with developers complaining how badly the CPU's in consoles have held back stuff like AI, yet here we are on PC playing a simulation that only requires a 12 year old CPU/GPU combo to play.

 

A significant number of FM users attempt to play below spec every year. The user base isn't on the the same level as the average steam user. So making large leaps in requirements is always unlikely

[Dagenham_Dave]

8 minutes ago, davehanson said:

wanted SI to fix what was to me a poor ME. I have, so far, seen no evidence that this has happened

Marvellous insight from around 3 seconds of footage from a game which isn't 100% finished yet. 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, davehanson said:

But you can get most of what that will give you through the analysis page, no?

In the shape of an xg model? No the model doesn't exist in FM20. The data might (and there's a lot of data), but you need a model to actually make it work

 

[forameuss]

17 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

One does wonder how much SI are held back by their rigid determination to ensuring the game runs on a toaster. We've just went an entire gaming generation with developers complaining how badly the CPU's in consoles have held back stuff like AI, yet here we are on PC playing a simulation that only requires a 12 year old CPU/GPU combo to play.

They've said repeatedly that people would be surprised to the extent at which people play on poor systems.  They have these numbers, and probably base a lot of decisions around it.  If it's a choice between "going forward" and alienating a sizeable portion of what is already a niche market, or trying to eke out as much performance without doing that, it's not really a decision, is it?

[davehanson]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Marvellous insight from around 3 seconds of footage from a game which isn't 100% finished yet. 

Very insightful reply. If you would have bothered to read anything else rather than cherry pick you would have quoted:

 I may be wrong but I would have thought that the ME was the main criticism of FM20 and as such if SI had radically reworked it then it would have been at least teased in the trailer. 

But, please, keep picking out bits that just suit your cause and ignore the rest.

[orlyzao]

I bet the "ask agent for player availability" is just going to replace the "Transfer Interest" that shows up in scout reports. 

[themadsheep2001]

As for the ME: There's absolutely no way anyone can have a credible view one way or another on it. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, davehanson said:

 I may be wrong but I would have thought that the ME was the main criticism of FM20

Mainly by people who are never satisfied. 

There is absolutely no chance that the match engine will be 'radically reworked' this year. I'm sure you can work out why. 

[davehanson]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

In the shape of an xg model? No the model doesn't exist in FM20. The data might (and there's a lot of data), but you need a model to actually make it work

 

This is the factors that form the basis of xG:

• Assist type - long ball, through ball etc.
• Was it a header?
• Was the ball struck with the foot?
• Was it a big chance?
• Angle of the shot
• Distance of the shot
• Was it a one-on-one?
• Did it occur in open play or a from a set-piece?

I can get all of that from the data analysis now. Yes, it will now be a lot easier to see now, not going to disagree, but the information is already there all xG is doing is turning it into a formula.

[FairyTailed]

I hope "ask agent for player availability" will allow us to get contracting with players regardless of having a deal with the club first.

How often does it happen in real life teams agree terms with players first? All the time.

How annoying is it that you unsettle a player for months and finally get a good fee only to see them asking to be a star player and ruining your wage structure despite being 'extremely interested' and your scout thinking they wouldn't ask as much wage.

But I doubt it will be in there.