Football Manager 2020 - Feature Announcement Blogs

[StevehFC]

13 minutes ago, 99 said:

Something feels wrong indeed. Well, all we can do is wait.

Correct. I really hope when the game is released we don't have any broken features. 

[Teme55]

Hi, does anybody know that will there be some streaming while the game is in alpha phase? 

I remember last year there were a fascinating Leverkusen save and there were all sorts of guest’s for example Miles was in one of the shows.

Miles is so enthusiastic person and would love to see him in interviews/shows etc.

[themadsheep2001]

Release dates shift in games all the time. This is actually why SI don't usually even say the month, because of reactions like this. Its the latest its been release by 5 days (not 3 as I said earlier). Wild speculation on the basis of that is not helpful to anyone, especially since no one here actually knows a thing, and those who do won't be telling

[styluz05]

Gives me longer on my current FM19 save which I am thoroughly enjoying 

[Svenc]

8 hours ago, cwc1 said:

Match engine should be better, although I'm looking forward to way too many chances being generated before SI does what they do every year and nerfs clear cut chances by the striker to offset it ... again.

You may or may not be Right with the "too many chances", but if anything, it's usually many of the poorer ones that shouldn't be converted that oftenly. Count the amount of stuff from set pieces, no space and range alone, in particular against the inevitable "parking bus AI". To expect or Code any of this stuff to be converted regularly, would Display a complete lack of understanding of how the game of Football works (Copyright TEd Knutson).  


https://statsbomb.com/2016/10/xcommentary/

 

PS: SI's Definition of a "clear cut Chance" sucks. It will do so for as Long as SI hold an entirelly semantic debate of what should consistitue a clear cut. And even then there's far too many different chances that apply -- from actual tap-ins in an empty net, to reasonably difficult one on ones at no angle and with the Defenders breathing down a forward's neck. Whilst he makes a case for the CCCS I don't agree with, you are likely much better off with Rashidi's Analysis instead. As it's plain obvious a huge Edge over what the AI can do in-game in Terms of Analysis, probably one of the reasons why SI don't "ape" it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PToI29JH2SE&t=279s

Edited October 14, 2019 by Svenc

[cwc1]

8 hours ago, CFuller said:

What makes you think this?

1. U18s require a ludicrous overpay.

2. AI regularly refuses better offers from the player and turns around and accepts lesser offers from other AI clubs.

3. Clubs (especially Barcelona) regularly bid on your best players, but refuse to spend a pence more than the player's value, even if your player is a Ballon d'Or winner with 5 years left on his contract.

The only teams that seem to give fair value on top end players are PSG and Man City.

4. When clubs actually do make decent offers, players refuse the deal way too frequently.

If you are getting decent value for your players, please share how to do so because I've been getting crap offers on various iterations of this game since I started playing a decade ago.

And yes, I've read online guides to selling players. The transfer mechanism in the game is just rubbish.

[cwc1]

21 minutes ago, Svenc said:

You may or may not be Right with the "too many chances", but if anything, it's usually many of the poorer ones that shouldn't be converted that oftenly. Count the amount of stuff from set pieces, no space and range alone, in particular against the inevitable "parking bus AI". To expect or Code any of this stuff to be converted regularly, would Display a complete lack of understanding of how the game of Football works (Copyright TEd Knutson).  


https://statsbomb.com/2016/10/xcommentary/

 

PS: SI's Definition of a "clear cut Chance" sucks. It will do so for as Long as SI hold an entirelly semantic debate of what should consistitue a clear cut. And even then there's far too many different chances that apply -- from actual tap-ins in an empty net, to reasonably difficult one on ones at no angle and with the Defenders breathing down a forward's neck. Whilst he makes a case for the CCCS I don't agree with, you are likely much better off with Rashidi's Analysis instead. As it's plain obvious a huge Edge over what the AI can do in-game in Terms of Analysis, probably one of the reasons why SI don't "ape" it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PToI29JH2SE&t=279s

I would be happy if:

- a striker with 'Likes to Round Keeper' didn't just kick it directly at the keeper

- no more goals bounce off the invisible wall that in net

If I have a world class striker going one on one with the keeper, I know it's not going in. Ever.

[aj6658]

When you look at the announced features all i can say is this year is an utter joke. Ive looked at their website a broken it down and when you do they are pulling the wool over your eyes to try and justify its £40 price tag. This is also based on information that was available at the time but i highly doubt that with a relates date being set that any other major features will be added.

Club vision

By the looks of it, this is just updated from our current system of board confidence. Could someone explain how this is different or a "feature". It just seems like its more at the forefront of the game by getting emails and more granular gradings.  

Per the FM features page.

"For instance, if you’ve honed a particularly attacking style of football at a club, you’ll be known for this around the world which could make you more appealing to a board..."

I can already see that in FM19 and it already effects the game. Every screenshot on the page i cane find mostly on my manager page on FM19 but now its in an email and I'm graded A-F. Yeah great, big feature there.

Playing pathway

Yes i would say this is an improvement which i welcome but as a headline feature?! Its a very welcome addition and give more control but again this is just a update on an old system. 

Backroom staff

Is this anything more the quality of life updates? They are trying to claim having a new staff member like the loan manager which tells me to send players out on loan is significant! 

I also don't care for my staff opinions about team formation or personal so any improvements to this is worthless. I put this update in the same category as the social media stuff. Pointless

Development centre 

This is the only thing that looks like a proper feature. Previously development of youth products has been difficult monitor and implement  and my favourite parts of FM was taking a wondkid and trying to make him a star so this is very welcome.

 

I think this year i will be forgoing buying FM20. This is DLC being sold as a fully fledge instalment.

IM not asking for them to rebuild everything or have ps4 standard graphics. 

I want exactly the same things that everyone else has asked for years. I want a more in depth tactical system with pressing triggers, better transfer AI (How many times have i tried to sell a decent player and for pennies and no one comes in or they come in for my best player with tiny bids)

Most of all i want a ME that is half decent. There is so much wrong with it. Defenders all running to the same player, players not listening to instructions constantly , no one twos that you constantly see in real games. 

Issue is FM doesn't have a competitor and because of that they never have to worry about pushing the game forward. Getting a bit tired of it because of love the concept and have put in many hours into it. Personally think its time Miles moved on. Completely out of touch of what the games needs and spends too many resources on things like in game social media 

[aj6658]

11 minutes ago, cwc1 said:

1. U18s require a ludicrous overpay.

2. AI regularly refuses better offers from the player and turns around and accepts lesser offers from other AI clubs.

3. Clubs (especially Barcelona) regularly bid on your best players, but refuse to spend a pence more than the player's value, even if your player is a Ballon d'Or winner with 5 years left on his contract.

The only teams that seem to give fair value on top end players are PSG and Man City.

4. When clubs actually do make decent offers, players refuse the deal way too frequently.

If you are getting decent value for your players, please share how to do so because I've been getting crap offers on various iterations of this game since I started playing a decade ago.

And yes, I've read online guides to selling players. The transfer mechanism in the game is just rubbish.

This right here. 

 

Miles likes to give it back to people saying this is a football management game yet invests zero time into fixing issues that have been there for years, like the above. Number 2& 3 always annoys me.

[Svenc]

7 minutes ago, cwc1 said:

If I have a world class striker going one on one with the keeper, I know it's not going in. Ever.

Probably one of the reasons why SI never listen to the one on one complaints. Ever.

(Actually, one time ca. FM 2011ish they did, and found that there was an actual issue with a specific type of one on one. However, the criticism went a bit further than the obviously far off the mark "striker never score on on ones" complaints).

[CFuller]

13 minutes ago, cwc1 said:

1. U18s require a ludicrous overpay.

I'll answer this one because it is semi-relevant to one of FM20's new improvements/features.

Are you trying to sign Under-18 players who've literally just arrived at their clubs on youth intake day, and thus haven't yet signed pre-contract agreements, allowing you to get them on the cheap? This is a well-known loophole - exploited by many a user - that I believe has been made more difficult to exploit in FM19. Such players will now want a lot more money to leave their starting clubs than previously.

One of the new improvements/features announced in FM20 is that youth intake dates are now more random, thus making it even more difficult for the more... let's say devious player to hoard all the best young prospects.

 

[dannyfc]

Slightly later release date is good IMO. Selfish part of me is annoyed, but rational part reckons there's match engine improvements they're ironing out before release.

Thought all the features last year were excellent additions but ultimately let-down by being it being somewhat of a crossing simulator on the pitch. Not a pop at SI as I genuinely believe it's still one of the most sophisticated emulation of artificial intelligence in modern games. I don't think people recognise how hard it is to code, particularly in a field which has barely progressed at all in other games. 

Still - it definitely lacks the fun element the older games used to. Very rarely witness any individual flair or inspiration from players. Hence why it bogs down to attritional warfare of grinding opponents down the flanks, or by bombarding them with long-shots. I'm not opposed to direct or 'unsexy' football, it's actually my preference, but I'd prefer to see more tactical solutions being effective if applied correctly. I know forum gurus will point to their saves with fasionable work-arounds , but it doesn't disprove that Gengenpress and extreme wing-play was always the most effective route to success. 

Also hope the number of offsides has been toned down. I guess just generally I would like to see less repetition in highlights and more variation in phases of play. Fingers crossed. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by dannyfc

[RandomGuy.]

30 minutes ago, cwc1 said:

1. U18s require a ludicrous overpay.

2. AI regularly refuses better offers from the player and turns around and accepts lesser offers from other AI clubs.

3. Clubs (especially Barcelona) regularly bid on your best players, but refuse to spend a pence more than the player's value, even if your player is a Ballon d'Or winner with 5 years left on his contract.

The only teams that seem to give fair value on top end players are PSG and Man City.

4. When clubs actually do make decent offers, players refuse the deal way too frequently.

If you are getting decent value for your players, please share how to do so because I've been getting crap offers on various iterations of this game since I started playing a decade ago.

And yes, I've read online guides to selling players. The transfer mechanism in the game is just rubbish.

 

17 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

This right here. 

Miles likes to give it back to people saying this is a football management game yet invests zero time into fixing issues that have been there for years, like the above. Number 2& 3 always annoys me.

What are you expecting?

Surely it's good AI management to refuse to overpay for players? PSG regularly vastly overspend on players so I'm not sure you can call that "fair value".

I think you're confusing your idea of value with realistic value tbh. Do you regularly spend over players values to sign them? If not, why would it make sense for the AI to do so?

[aj6658]

16 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

What are you expecting?

Surely it's good AI management to refuse to overpay for players? PSG regularly vastly overspend on players so I'm not sure you can call that "fair value".

I think you're confusing your idea of value with realistic value tbh. Do you regularly spend over players values to sign them? If not, why would it make sense for the AI to do so?

I regularly do spend over players values to get them.  If a player isn't listed then you have to. I have anthony Martial who is value at £60m and 14G 8A in 31 games but real madrid won't pay more than £60m. How does that make sense? Clearly there is a very rudimental AI system in the background that sets the cap. 

If this game is a simulator it should simulate life. is harry maguire a £80m defender? no, but you have to pay over the odds to get the players you want.

 

[HUNT3R]

9 hours ago, aj6658 said:

I regularly do spend over players values to get them.  If a player isn't listed then you have to. I have anthony Martial who is value at £60m and 14G 8A in 31 games but real madrid won't pay more than £60m. How does that make sense? Clearly there is a very rudimental AI system in the background that sets the cap. 

Are you asking for all of this up front? Teams don't always have that much money up front (or that much they'd want to use on just one player), so you should be able to get more if you ask for installments.

[glosoli]

Release date late November, winter transfer window starts around 40 days after the release. I guess, I will wait for the winter window patch and continue playing FM 2019 til then. I already updated many new transfers so, won't miss much.

[thejay]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb Tony Wright 747:

This is part of the problem I remember when there was three or four football management games out at the same time.  It can be argued that SI has seen off the opposition because of its quality and there is some truth in this however there is also the reason that because the profit margin in football management games is relatively small other developers have dropped out to work on other games that will make them more money but SI had less choice as FM was their main product.

yes also there is a high entry barrier.

 

The strength of fm is in its database which depends on the volunteer network which took years to build up. 

 

a new company cant just create a convincing management simulation because it does not have this kind of database

[BlitzkriegBlue]

19 hours ago, Double0Seven said:

The skeptical person in me: with the things announced as "features" so far and the 19 nov release date instead of early november as said, Im not getting my hopes up high. Something feels wrong.

The optimistic person in me: they took the feedback and reactions we gave to their feature reveals and took some extra time to work on them and possibly better features. 

 

 

I can only agree with this. All the features announced so far seem too small to me. I can't see something big that makes me want to buy it on release, like the training revamp an FM19...

[Akasha]

Sometimes "small features" can take a long time to be developped i think.

[KiLLu12258]

its about time to see the me in action after that i will decide.

features at all are way to less.

[RorysRocketThrow]

I'm still a bit confused as to why we haven't seen much match engine footage thus far, especially since the headline features seem quite muted to me personally.  Either there is going to be a big reveal soon or it strikes me that not much, if anything has changed.

[themadsheep2001]

Match engine footage is usually one of the last things you see before the beta release tbh. 

[autohoratio]

Another nice small feature

[Sheriff7]

 

[Double0Seven]

Ive said it before and many people as well.

Miles, get off of twitter or get a PR team to run your twitter. You do not have a thick skin, because every year you are complaining again about people complaining about you. Or your twitter background to begin with. Thats not having an "incredibly thick skin". And this is coming from a Dutch person, so I know what it actually means. 

People throwing abuse at Miles? Not okay.

The way Miles is handing it? Also not okay.

Miles is not Blizzard/NBA levels of bad PR (thank god for that), but it certainly isnt the PR we want to see from the director. Its doing more harm than good.  

 

[bigmattb28]

1 hour ago, autohoratio said:

Another nice small feature

 

This is already on the game, kind of. If you have a player on loan that's not playing he will ask you to terminate it, and I have 100% had managers of a team I have loaned a player from speak to me about not playing him in the agreed position.

Not really a new feature for me.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Sunderland's chairman in real life deleted his Twitter account over the weekend because of the abuse he was getting from our own 'fans'. 

There are too many morons in the world for social media to be a force for good. 

[99]

1 hora atrás, Sheriff7 disse:

 

I know very few people with so many problems with getting criticism as Miles. But they at least don't deny it and would never, ever, pretend they have a thick skin when they are in the opposite side of it. It's incredible.

Edited October 15, 2019 by 99

[Sheriff7]

 

[kandersson]

1 minute ago, Sheriff7 said:

 

Honestly I think this is the main reason for the 'late' release.

[ParanoidBuddha]

1 minuto fa, kandersson ha scritto:

Honestly I think this is the main reason for the 'late' release.

It's for sure

Edited October 15, 2019 by ParanoidBuddha

[theballstopshere]

1 hour ago, Double0Seven said:

Ive said it before and many people as well.

Miles, get off of twitter or get a PR team to run your twitter. You do not have a thick skin, because every year you are complaining again about people complaining about you. Or your twitter background to begin with. Thats not having an "incredibly thick skin". And this is coming from a Dutch person, so I know what it actually means. 

People throwing abuse at Miles? Not okay.

The way Miles is handing it? Also not okay.

Miles is not Blizzard/NBA levels of bad PR (thank god for that), but it certainly isnt the PR we want to see from the director. Its doing more harm than good.  

 

Agree. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Abuse is definitely not right but it is unfortunately inevitable if one is on social media, and more so being the face of a game that is still very much a work in progress. 

Just hire a PR person to handle the social media and gather the feedback. He don't have to be running it personally. I believe everyone prefers that he spends his time on the game than having to mudsling with some internet dude. 

[Double0Seven]

Google ruins many things in my life such as my privacy, but the last thing I expected is my Football Manager.

Thats a new one.

[upthetoon]

Will try out the demo to check on the match engine first and decide if I want to buy. 

Fm19 was at times crossing simulator. Wing backs will wait until being closed down to play a Cross only for it to be blocked and go out to corner. 

Also none of the features feels like it deserves a new game. More like fm19 dlc update. 

Also the Pre match tactical briefing thingy had zero impact on anything. Quite a few bloated stuffs in the game which adds nothing. 

Let's see if all this is fixed in the demo. 

[theballstopshere]

20 hours ago, aj6658 said:

When you look at the announced features all i can say is this year is an utter joke. Ive looked at their website a broken it down and when you do they are pulling the wool over your eyes to try and justify its £40 price tag. This is also based on information that was available at the time but i highly doubt that with a relates date being set that any other major features will be added.

Club vision

By the looks of it, this is just updated from our current system of board confidence. Could someone explain how this is different or a "feature". It just seems like its more at the forefront of the game by getting emails and more granular gradings.  

Per the FM features page.

"For instance, if you’ve honed a particularly attacking style of football at a club, you’ll be known for this around the world which could make you more appealing to a board..."

I can already see that in FM19 and it already effects the game. Every screenshot on the page i cane find mostly on my manager page on FM19 but now its in an email and I'm graded A-F. Yeah great, big feature there.

Playing pathway

Yes i would say this is an improvement which i welcome but as a headline feature?! Its a very welcome addition and give more control but again this is just a update on an old system. 

Backroom staff

Is this anything more the quality of life updates? They are trying to claim having a new staff member like the loan manager which tells me to send players out on loan is significant! 

I also don't care for my staff opinions about team formation or personal so any improvements to this is worthless. I put this update in the same category as the social media stuff. Pointless

Development centre 

This is the only thing that looks like a proper feature. Previously development of youth products has been difficult monitor and implement  and my favourite parts of FM was taking a wondkid and trying to make him a star so this is very welcome.

 

I think this year i will be forgoing buying FM20. This is DLC being sold as a fully fledge instalment.

IM not asking for them to rebuild everything or have ps4 standard graphics. 

I want exactly the same things that everyone else has asked for years. I want a more in depth tactical system with pressing triggers, better transfer AI (How many times have i tried to sell a decent player and for pennies and no one comes in or they come in for my best player with tiny bids)

Most of all i want a ME that is half decent. There is so much wrong with it. Defenders all running to the same player, players not listening to instructions constantly , no one twos that you constantly see in real games. 

Issue is FM doesn't have a competitor and because of that they never have to worry about pushing the game forward. Getting a bit tired of it because of love the concept and have put in many hours into it. Personally think its time Miles moved on. Completely out of touch of what the games needs and spends too many resources on things like in game social media 

I echoed very similar views to yours a few weeks back. Just like many others on here. Even our views on ME, pressing triggers, playing to instructions, in-depth tactical systems and players AI are the same. I will also add more realism like GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper), better GK's reactions to second balls, one-on-ones, and proper tussling for balls. I think that even with at least half of the above gets addressed, it is a giant step towards bringing the game to their claim of being the 'best in football management simulation'.

Hopefully the next reveal can fulfill at least parts of it.

To me, it is quite shocking that a game this established is still floundering in many of the most basic football gameplay. 

I can totally understand that it is not easy but it grates on me when the mods go "it's tough, it's not as easy as you think...". Yeah I am sure it is not easy, but unfortunately that's the game SI choose to make. And there are loads of things in the world that are not easy too, building Burj Khalifa for example. But you don't see the builders of Burj Khalifa building a crooked structure and telling people to stop complaining as it is not easy to build??

And SI as a game has been around for what, 20 - 30 years? It's something that should be gotten right by now, at least 70% in my opinion. At this moment, we are not even at a 50%. 

Among many things, it frustrates me to see three of my world class players running in a straight line after an opposing player, repeatedly. I am sorry, but i find this unacceptable for a game of this standing and reputation. 

[gunner86]

1 hour ago, bigmattb28 said:

This is already on the game, kind of. If you have a player on loan that's not playing he will ask you to terminate it, and I have 100% had managers of a team I have loaned a player from speak to me about not playing him in the agreed position.

Not really a new feature for me.

I've never seen a player request a loan be cancelled, either loaned in or loaned out. Only ever managers.

[XaW]

1 hour ago, bigmattb28 said:

This is already on the game, kind of. If you have a player on loan that's not playing he will ask you to terminate it, and I have 100% had managers of a team I have loaned a player from speak to me about not playing him in the agreed position.

Not really a new feature for me.

I think you misunderstood. The PLAYER can now ask for termination, not the manager due to lack of playtime.

[herne79]

54 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

it grates on me when the mods go "it's tough, it's not as easy as you think...".

And it grates on the mods when we get misinterpreted, quoted out of context or hyperbole is offered without specifics.

57 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

And SI as a game has been around for what, 20 - 30 years? It's something that should be gotten right by now, at least 70% in my opinion. At this moment, we are not even at a 50%. 

You seem to have a good grasp on things, although I haven't noticed much in the way of bug reports or new feature requests from you in the last 20-30 years.  If the game is at less than 50% right now, please do share your knowledge by raising lots of new feature requests and pointing out - with specific examples - all the bugs and precisely where things need to be improved.  But you won't will you - all mouth and no trousers.

Start dealing in specifics if you want to be taken seriously.

[leviathan1904]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb XaW:

I think you misunderstood. The PLAYER can now ask for termination, not the manager due to lack of playtime.

Yes, and as you can see in this screenshot on the right, there is a "loan happiness". It fits to the new feature.

[XaW]

2 minutes ago, leviathan1904 said:

Yes, and as you can see in this screenshot on the right, there is a "loan happiness". It fits to the new feature.

Yes, that was my point?

[autohoratio]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

Yes, that was my point?

Leviathan was agreeing with you and adding more information

[theballstopshere]

21 minutes ago, herne79 said:

And it grates on the mods when we get misinterpreted, quoted out of context or hyperbole is offered without specifics.

You seem to have a good grasp on things, although I haven't noticed much in the way of bug reports or new feature requests from you in the last 20-30 years.  If the game is at less than 50% right now, please do share your knowledge by raising lots of new feature requests and pointing out - with specific examples - all the bugs and precisely where things need to be improved.  But you won't will you - all mouth and no trousers.

Start dealing in specifics if you want to be taken seriously.

Easy. Don't need to get your knickers in a knot. As I have said just, and in my other posts, that I have previously pointed out my views not just on the last release but also my suggestions on how the game can be improved. 

I will just quote from my last post "I echoed very similar views to yours a few weeks back. Just like many others on here. Even our views on ME, pressing triggers, playing to instructions, in-depth tactical systems and players AI are the same. I will also add more realism like GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper), better GK's reactions to second balls, one-on-ones, and proper tussling for balls."

If the above is not enough for SI to work off from I don't know what it. I mean, I am not asking for the moon am I? Isn't this the fundamentals of a football simulation game? 

I don't see the need to requests for more features beyond the above, as of now. I rather you guys focus on getting the 'basic' stuff fixed, which already seems like a stumbling block. 

And I am not a micro managing person, I am not sharp on details, therefore I don't do bug reports. 

What I have suggested have been echoed by a few others on here. It's really no rocket science to understand. Just the core building blocks of a proper football simulation game. Nothing unreasonable. Let's be realistic and focus on these for now. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by theballstopshere

[forameuss]

9 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

Easy. Don't need to get your knickers in a knot. As I have said just, and in my other posts, that I have previously pointed out my views not just on the last release but also my suggestions on how the game can be improved. 

I will just quote from my last post "I echoed very similar views to yours a few weeks back. Just like many others on here. Even our views on ME, pressing triggers, playing to instructions, in-depth tactical systems and players AI are the same. I will also add more realism like GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper), better GK's reactions to second balls, one-on-ones, and proper tussling for balls."

If the above is not enough for SI to work off from I don't know what it. I mean, I am not asking for the moon am I? Isn't this the fundamentals of a football simulation game? 

I don't see the need to requests for more features beyond the above, as of now. I rather you guys focus on getting the 'basic' stuff fixed, which already seems like a stumbling block. 

And I am not a micro managing person, I am not sharp on details, therefore I don't do bug reports. 

What I have suggested have been echoed by a few others on here. It's really no rocket science to understand. Just the core building blocks of a proper football simulation game. Nothing unreasonable. Let's be realistic and focus on these for now. 

As soon as you start going down the line of "I don't do bug reports", then it becomes hard to take a post like this seriously. 

Put simply, SI need a very specific set of data to be able to go after an issue.  From what you're saying, it sounds like you've been very involved in discussing issues the game has, and seemingly in detail, but discussions are really not actionable from SI's point of view when it comes to bugs. You say "If the above is not enough for SI to work off from I don't know what it", well I'll tell you that it isn't, and the "what" in this case is specific pkms.  That might seem like overkill, but think of it as handing someone a very intricate machine with a million moving parts, then telling them in very general terms that it's broken.  It's not a great analogy, but then software development can be a very different beast.  Someone can take what you say and go ahead and try and investigate, but they're already starting out with one hand tied behind their back in terms of finding what's wrong, even before they've thought about how to fix it.

If you give them a pkm and a decent bug report, they'll be able to very quickly get to the issue and actually go about fixing it.  That's a massive difference to just sending someone into the code on the say so of often very vague comments.  I work in software development for investment banking - I'm always going to be more happy to work on something if someone comes to me saying that there's an issue with report x on trade y, and here's exact details of what we think is wrong, as opposed to someone saying "pnl is wrong".  One is actionable, one is a massive ballache involving a huge amount more work.

And just for information, I'm also someone who doesn't raise bug reports.  Not through some haughty insistence that it isn't my job (not that you're saying that, but others have), but because I deal all day with this kind of thing at work, and to be honest I can't be arsed doing it in my spare time too.  But given that view, I can't really criticise SI when I'm not willing to give them the tools they need to do their job.

[theballstopshere]

I tell you what. I will make it easier for you guys. These are the 'new feature requests' you want me to state, and i will repeat myself again, and this time, with more details. 

- Improve GK AI:

a) GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper)

b) More GKs one on one with strikers (virtually non-existent now)

c) Better GK's reactions to second balls, balls off the goal frame (right now they are just rooted and have zero reaction to second balls)

- Improve players' AI:

a) players' movement is not realistic - I play narrow defence but my two wingbacks almost never tuck in to support the central defenders

b) players tussling (I don't see how I can further explain this)

c) players playing towards set tactics and moving and pressing like they are professional players (or close to it) - again, I am not sure how much clearer I can be on this

d) players still attacking and giving the ball away (by crossing into opp box) even though I set tactics to defensive, and to waste time, as I defend a one goal lead in the 89th min, be great to see them running towards the corner flag 

I think just the above is more than enough work for SI? And I believe just fulfilling the above will go a long way to satiating a lot of fans. 

Pressing triggers is something that I will need more time to work on. It can get very detailed. But rest assure I am not expecting that in the game. If you want to see my thoughts on pressing triggers (and if you think that it is actionable), just shout out, I am more than happy to provide it. 

[theballstopshere]

13 minutes ago, forameuss said:

As soon as you start going down the line of "I don't do bug reports", then it becomes hard to take a post like this seriously. 

Put simply, SI need a very specific set of data to be able to go after an issue.  From what you're saying, it sounds like you've been very involved in discussing issues the game has, and seemingly in detail, but discussions are really not actionable from SI's point of view when it comes to bugs. You say "If the above is not enough for SI to work off from I don't know what it", well I'll tell you that it isn't, and the "what" in this case is specific pkms.  That might seem like overkill, but think of it as handing someone a very intricate machine with a million moving parts, then telling them in very general terms that it's broken.  It's not a great analogy, but then software development can be a very different beast.  Someone can take what you say and go ahead and try and investigate, but they're already starting out with one hand tied behind their back in terms of finding what's wrong, even before they've thought about how to fix it.

If you give them a pkm and a decent bug report, they'll be able to very quickly get to the issue and actually go about fixing it.  That's a massive difference to just sending someone into the code on the say so of often very vague comments.  I work in software development for investment banking - I'm always going to be more happy to work on something if someone comes to me saying that there's an issue with report x on trade y, and here's exact details of what we think is wrong, as opposed to someone saying "pnl is wrong".  One is actionable, one is a massive ballache involving a huge amount more work.

And just for information, I'm also someone who doesn't raise bug reports.  Not through some haughty insistence that it isn't my job (not that you're saying that, but others have), but because I deal all day with this kind of thing at work, and to be honest I can't be arsed doing it in my spare time too.  But given that view, I can't really criticise SI when I'm not willing to give them the tools they need to do their job.

Fair enough. I get where you are coming from. To be honest though, I always think that my eye for bugs is very poor, and I have ventured into the bugs reporting post before and wanted to post. Then I realise that the stuff that I have pointed out (players running in a straight line after an opposition, wingbacks never tuck in, GKs having zero reaction to second balls) are glaringly obvious and have been repeated ad nauseam by many others (which I have also pointed out in my previous posts). Hence I don't see the need to go and report it again for fear of spamming. 

 

[HUNT3R]

11 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

I tell you what. I will make it easier for you guys. These are the 'new feature requests' you want me to state, and i will repeat myself again, and this time, with more details. 

- Improve GK AI:

a) GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper)

b) More GKs one on one with strikers (virtually non-existent now)

c) Better GK's reactions to second balls, balls off the goal frame (right now they are just rooted and have zero reaction to second balls)

- Improve players' AI:

a) players' movement is not realistic - I play narrow defence but my two wingbacks almost never tuck in to support the central defenders

b) players tussling (I don't see how I can further explain this)

c) players playing towards set tactics and moving and pressing like they are professional players (or close to it) - again, I am not sure how much clearer I can be on this

d) players still attacking and giving the ball away (by crossing into opp box) even though I set tactics to defensive, and to waste time, as I defend a one goal lead in the 89th min, be great to see them running towards the corner flag 

I think just the above is more than enough work for SI? And I believe just fulfilling the above will go a long way to satiating a lot of fans. 

Pressing triggers is something that I will need more time to work on. It can get very detailed. But rest assure I am not expecting that in the game. If you want to see my thoughts on pressing triggers (and if you think that it is actionable), just shout out, I am more than happy to provide it. 

Put feature requests in the feature requests section. That way SI can look through the post when it's time to review those requests. 

 

For some of these, it would  help to report issues with PKMs when FM20 is released. 

 

[styluz05]

I will not criticise the SI team too much, as I wouldn't even know where to begin to build a game, as complex as FM. 
However, I do feel like the "main" features and the "small" ones are in the majority UI changes, making something that was already there look slightly better. 
I do feel there are many different type of gamers on FM. I for one couldn't careless about graphics and this pine for stadiums. 
Much more interested in the ME and AI. Where bigger issues/gains could be made. 

Like I say I cant imagine how difficult it is, but there seems to be a big PR drive on social media etc on these features.. where most of them are minor tweaks. 

I think SI do a fantastic job. 

 

I will add I completely condemn any abuse any of the SI team receive on social media... however its the world we live in now, where people can express their views, and for anyone on a public social media account, should expect someone to potentially abuse them. Its not right but shouldnt be shocked when it happens. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by styluz05

[Mons]

6 minutes ago, styluz05 said:

I will not criticise the SI team too much, as I wouldn't even know where to begin to build a game, as complex as FM. 
However, I do feel like the "main" features and the "small" ones are in the majority UI changes, making something that was already there look slightly better. 
I do feel there are many different type of gamers on FM. I for one couldn't careless about graphics and this pine for stadiums. 
Much more interested in the ME and AI. Where bigger issues/gains could be made. 

Like I say I cant imagine how difficult it is, but there seems to be a big PR drive on social media etc on these features.. where most of them are minor tweaks. 

I think SI do a fantastic job. 

 

I will add I completely condone any abuse any of the SI team receive on social media... however its the world we live in now, where people can express their views, and for anyone on a public social media account, should expect someone to potentially abuse them. Its not right but shouldnt be shocked when it happens. 

Do you perhaps mean condemn instead of condone?

[styluz05]

1 minute ago, Mons said:

Do you perhaps mean condemn instead of condone?

yes lol 

[herne79]

2 hours ago, theballstopshere said:

I tell you what. I will make it easier for you guys. These are the 'new feature requests' you want me to state, and i will repeat myself again, and this time, with more details. 

- Improve GK AI:

a) GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper)

b) More GKs one on one with strikers (virtually non-existent now)

c) Better GK's reactions to second balls, balls off the goal frame (right now they are just rooted and have zero reaction to second balls)

- Improve players' AI:

a) players' movement is not realistic - I play narrow defence but my two wingbacks almost never tuck in to support the central defenders

b) players tussling (I don't see how I can further explain this)

c) players playing towards set tactics and moving and pressing like they are professional players (or close to it) - again, I am not sure how much clearer I can be on this

d) players still attacking and giving the ball away (by crossing into opp box) even though I set tactics to defensive, and to waste time, as I defend a one goal lead in the 89th min, be great to see them running towards the corner flag 

I think just the above is more than enough work for SI? And I believe just fulfilling the above will go a long way to satiating a lot of fans. 

Pressing triggers is something that I will need more time to work on. It can get very detailed. But rest assure I am not expecting that in the game. If you want to see my thoughts on pressing triggers (and if you think that it is actionable), just shout out, I am more than happy to provide it. 

It doesn't make it easier.  As I said above, specific examples are needed.  More often than not that means match pkms (plural) with relevant timings indicated during those matches when issues occur or improvements are sought.

So when you say "GKs coming off the line to clear a loose ball (esp if i play a high line and GK Sweeper)" (for example) it's meaningless without demonstrating specific examples of when during matches the GK should be coming off his line.  Without specifics it's nothing more than discussion, opinion or hyperbole but nothing for the developers to actually get their teeth into.  That's not to say they may not already be working on similar issues, but if you want specific things improved (and you clearly do as we apparently only have less than 50% of a game so far) you need to deal in specifics.  "Players tussling" is not specific.

2 hours ago, theballstopshere said:

Hence I don't see the need to go and report it again for fear of spamming. 

There can never be too many reports.  In fact the more reports there are, the higher the chances become of the issue getting a higher priority.