Chase Failey Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Heartwork said: Missed it, what was his justification for not playing Foden? If it ain't broke... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, Mickybricks14 said: Didn't watch but reading all the comments on this page sounds exactly like the Scotland game at the euros. The longer it stays nil nil the safer you play to avoid embarrassment of defeat Was even worse than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Adam Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, Heartwork said: Missed it, what was his justification for not playing Foden? He prefers Marcus and Grealish as the back ups for Sterling and Saka. May as well have said Foden is 5th choice for 2 positions and he wont play unless needed. I think he sees Mount as a central midfielder playing attacking mid, and that foden cant play there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthrax Dave Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Southgate talking bollocks on 5 Live now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 How was this a hard point gained? What an odd question. Since when were England the underdog? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, av3ry said: Also found out my father would have loved Sam Allardyce as manager. "GET IT FORWARD" "STOP PASSING AROUND THE BACK, LOB IT FORWARD FFS! " Your dad is my dad (Also love him being completely convinced that his school team did more pressing than a bunch of elite athletes that spend half their week doing pressing drills) 3 minutes ago, Chase Failey said: People calling for Southgate to be sacked I mean, normally in group stages we absolutely thrash all our opponents, don't we? And we have such a good tournament record against the USA (Also, everyone screaming for Foden is like Baptista stanning for Grealish in every conceivable situations in the last tournament . Yes, Foden is great, no Foden is absolutely not the answer to the question "can you look less nervy at the back, transition a bit better and either hold the ball up or ruin them with pace". I'd have considered him at half time when it looked like what we were missing might just be final third quality, but in the middle of that second half when we couldn't even get the ball to the areas he's effective in?!?) 10 minutes ago, Astafjevs said: If England repeat tonight's performance they'll beat Wales 4-0. Wales are a poor team Wales are not THAT bad. But yeah, Wales won't be as energetic as the USA, never mind beat us 4-0, which is the only way we don't go through Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Anthrax Dave said: Southgate talking bollocks on 5 Live now. He always does. Worst trait for a manager to have - talking absolute bollocks to cover up your deficiencies. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted November 25, 2022 Administrators Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Andrew_ said: How was this a hard point gained? What an odd question. Since when were England the underdog? Hard point gained because we were terrible, I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Adam Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Southgate for England reminds me of Lee Johnson at Sunderland so much. Seems a nice guy. Even seems a decent coach. A good role model. But not a "winner". Both would rather see elements of things they've worked on on the training ground, played out well, than win the game. They lose sight on the end goal and focus purely on delivering what they've worked on in training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius1998 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Man management - 20 Tactical knowledge - 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Not changing my mind 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Glad I supported one of the teams else I'd have died of boredom. People moaning about Foden are missing the point about the team a bit, every attacking player will look bad when we play like that, a set defence most of the time and Maguire looked good when able to just head everything away and step in knowing there was cover. USA also held back in the second half a bit, I think @Astafjevs was right early in the thread saying Southgate was hoping to pick them off when they tired. But we were so slow that they didn't get tired because we weren't moving them about. May as well just have Grealish on from the start because for some unknown reason every opposition player loves fouling him, the free kick that Kane cleared wide was utterly braindead from the defender (as was the late free kick USA decided to pass down the line and won a throw from ) However, there weren't even any edgy moments from the US defence where you think if only the pass had been a bit better we're in there, for me the epitome of the match was Maguire stepping forward with the ball, having nothing on, and playing a stupid through ball for a slow Kane to chase. There is no point playing for the counter if you don't even have any decent countering options. USA played well but even that Mckennie chance wasn't that good, neither team was prepared to go for it but if you're the US I think that's fair enough. But I don't want to be going to penalties against Ecuador or Senegal which is likely if we play this cautious game. Found our pass map too. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Darius1998 said: Man management - 20 Tactical knowledge - 8 Generous. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwars Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, Darius1998 said: Man management - 20 Tactical knowledge - 8 Not sure Phil Foden will agree with that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickybricks14 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) Tbh before the tournament started I thought England would win by a big margin against usa after a 0-0 draw in the first game against Iran. 59 minutes ago, The_jagster said: However, there weren't even any edgy moments from the US defence where you think if only the pass had been a bit better we're in there, for me the epitome of the match was Maguire stepping forward with the ball, having nothing on, and playing a stupid through ball for a slow Kane to chase. There is no point playing for the counter if you don't even have any decent countering options. That's exactly how he plays for man United aswell. No surprise their build up has improved since Martinez replaced him Edited November 25, 2022 by Mickybricks14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 40 minutes ago, Mr Adam said: And Bellingham, Saka and both full backs. Bellingham, Saka, Sterling and Mount all played like they were just waiting for stuff to happen. Don’t forget Henderson, he was ***** 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, silentwars said: Not sure Phil Foden will agree with that... Nor Grealish, nor Trent, nor any striker that's picked that's not Kane. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
_mxrky Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Southgate genuinely has cv an argument for being the worst manager in the entire tournament at least from a tactical perspective Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolton1987 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Same again vs Wales please Gareth. Qualification easily secured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, The_jagster said: Glad I supported one of the teams else I'd have died of boredom. People moaning about Foden are missing the point about the team a bit, every attacking player will look bad when we play like that, a set defence most of the time and Maguire looked good when able to just head everything away and step in knowing there was cover. USA also held back in the second half a bit, I think @Astafjevs was right early in the thread saying Southgate was hoping to pick them off when they tired. But we were so slow that they didn't get tired because we weren't moving them about. May as well just have Grealish on from the start because for some unknown reason every opposition player loves fouling him, the free kick that Kane cleared wide was utterly braindead from the defender (as was the late free kick USA decided to pass down the line and won a throw from ) However, there weren't even any edgy moments from the US defence where you think if only the pass had been a bit better we're in there, for me the epitome of the match was Maguire stepping forward with the ball, having nothing on, and playing a stupid through ball for a slow Kane to chase. There is no point playing for the counter if you don't even have any decent countering options. USA played well but even that Mckennie chance wasn't that good, neither team was prepared to go for it but if you're the US I think that's fair enough. But I don't want to be going to penalties against Ecuador or Senegal which is likely if we play this cautious game. Found our pass map too. Gareth obviously played a lot of FM22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted November 25, 2022 Administrators Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said: Nor Grealish, nor Trent, nor any striker that's picked that's not Kane. Tbh if Kane is just going to be dropping deep he may as well drop Mount for Wilson and play Kane as the 10 and Wilson as 9. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, Mr Adam said: Both would rather see elements of things they've worked on on the training ground, played out well, than win the game. I think there was an element of this tonight. Possibly trying something out with the knockouts in mind, given that we have had limited preparation time and we knew we had three points already in the bag from Monday. Cede possession a bit but set up to try and stifle the opposition. And he’s done it with four at the back instead of his usual five and limited USA to one shot on target all night. Clearly need to sharpen up going forward, but imagine if tonight gives him the confidence to play a back four against France or Argentina, and push another body higher up the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: but imagine if tonight gives him the confidence to play a back four against France or Argentina, and push another body higher up the pitch. I can't, I really can't. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: I think there was an element of this tonight. Possibly trying something out with the knockouts in mind, given that we have had limited preparation time and we knew we had three points already in the bag from Monday. Cede possession a bit but set up to try and stifle the opposition. And he’s done it with four at the back instead of his usual five and limited USA to one shot on target all night. Clearly need to sharpen up going forward, but imagine if tonight gives him the confidence to play a back four against France or Argentina, and push another body higher up the pitch. I love your optimism. Can't wait for you to be the only one in here celebrating when we win the bloody thing and everyone else is too busy being angry about team selection to care Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, Bootador said: I can't, I really can't. imagine all the people.... in our back line against France Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnzy Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, Mr Adam said: Southgate for England reminds me of Lee Johnson at Sunderland so much. Seems a nice guy. Even seems a decent coach. A good role model. But not a "winner". Both would rather see elements of things they've worked on on the training ground, played out well, than win the game. They lose sight on the end goal and focus purely on delivering what they've worked on in training. I’d never describe Lee Johnson as a nice guy 😂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, enigmatic said: I love your optimism. Can't wait for you to be the only one in here celebrating when we win the bloody thing and everyone else is too busy being angry about team selection to care I don’t know I mean it’s hard to defend tonight, but there’s no reason for us to play so negatively unless it’s deliberate. Unless we are looking at that 4231 and working on our defensive shape and seeing how we go on managing the game without much possession. There has to be a plan, right? RIGHT? I mean it just felt like a training session tonight at times. Not in the sense that it was easy, but in the sense that it felt like we were trying to implement a certain way of playing. Even though we had the players to go up a gear and cause them more problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, The_jagster said: USA played well but even that Mckennie chance wasn't that good, neither team was prepared to go for it but if you're the US I think that's fair enough. But I don't want to be going to penalties against Ecuador or Senegal which is likely if we play this cautious game. Eh? We did go for it (for about 75 minutes). Just like we did (in the first half) against Wales. And when going for it, we've comfortably been on top. But we've got next to nothing from our strikers. Sargent put an early chance against Wales off the outside of the post, then vanished until being subbed off. Wright has been more involved in the build up, but contributed nothing in the final third. I can't even recall him touching the ball in the attacking penalty box. Ferreira was in such poor form, and then not playing, heading into the WC, it was a little surprising he got called up. Given he's yet to see the pitch in the first two, I doubt we'll see him make an appearance. None of the three were in the Gold Cup winning squad, and they collectively played less than the equivalent of four matches in WQC, scoring one goal. And it's not like there was an injury or mystifying snub up front. We just don't have a reliable, established option. Maybe one of these young guys will emerge as that by 2026, but right now, it's costing us. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
git2thachoppa Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 **** I forgot this match was on. I was disappointed at first, and then I remember we (Iran) actually have 3 whole points, not just 1, so actually a draw was the best possible result. If Iran get the draw needed only for England to lose to Wales... FFS... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 I actually think the Henderson sub worked. We had no control of the midfield and Henderson did counter that. Soon as he came on, the US seemed to have less of a threat. Just everything in front of him didn't work. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 21 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: I think there was an element of this tonight. Possibly trying something out with the knockouts in mind, given that we have had limited preparation time and we knew we had three points already in the bag from Monday. Cede possession a bit but set up to try and stifle the opposition. And he’s done it with four at the back instead of his usual five and limited USA to one shot on target all night. Clearly need to sharpen up going forward, but imagine if tonight gives him the confidence to play a back four against France or Argentina, and push another body higher up the pitch. 9 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: I don’t know I mean it’s hard to defend tonight, but there’s no reason for us to play so negatively unless it’s deliberate. Unless we are looking at that 4231 and working on our defensive shape and seeing how we go on managing the game without much possession. There has to be a plan, right? RIGHT? I mean it just felt like a training session tonight at times. Not in the sense that it was easy, but in the sense that it felt like we were trying to implement a certain way of playing. Even though we had the players to go up a gear and cause them more problems. I think you're mistaking our limited ability in the final third for good defending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, skybluedave said: I actually think the Henderson sub worked. We had no control of the midfield and Henderson did counter that. Soon as he came on, the US seemed to have less of a threat. Just everything in front of him didn't work. Henderson was fine. Bellingham started okay, but looked lost. And I don't rightly know what Rice was doing. So at least having one midfielder doing something defensively was an improvement, but his sub also coincided with us pulling back and saving some players for Tuesday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 33 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: I think there was an element of this tonight. Possibly trying something out with the knockouts in mind, given that we have had limited preparation time and we knew we had three points already in the bag from Monday. Cede possession a bit but set up to try and stifle the opposition. And he’s done it with four at the back instead of his usual five and limited USA to one shot on target all night. Clearly need to sharpen up going forward, but imagine if tonight gives him the confidence to play a back four against France or Argentina, and push another body higher up the pitch. When we lose. I worry for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, XuluBak said: Henderson was fine. Bellingham started okay, but looked lost. And I don't rightly know what Rice was doing. So at least having one midfielder doing something defensively was an improvement, but his sub also coincided with us pulling back and saving some players for Tuesday. Not sure. I'm pretty drunk but I felt from like 55 minute to whenever Henderson came on we were gettting more and more penned back by the US and getting nowhere near their box. While that didn't change hugely after the sub, it definitely felt like we were playing a step higher. We obviously couldn't string a pass when near sniffing distance of their box mind But basically prior to his sub, I could see us conceeding. Afterward, never really thought we would. Edited November 25, 2022 by skybluedave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, XuluBak said: Eh? We did go for it (for about 75 minutes). Just like we did (in the first half) against Wales. And when going for it, we've comfortably been on top. But we've got next to nothing from our strikers. Sargent put an early chance against Wales off the outside of the post, then vanished until being subbed off. Wright has been more involved in the build up, but contributed nothing in the final third. I can't even recall him touching the ball in the attacking penalty box. Ferreira was in such poor form, and then not playing, heading into the WC, it was a little surprising he got called up. Given he's yet to see the pitch in the first two, I doubt we'll see him make an appearance. None of the three were in the Gold Cup winning squad, and they collectively played less than the equivalent of four matches in WQC, scoring one goal. And it's not like there was an injury or mystifying snub up front. We just don't have a reliable, established option. Maybe one of these young guys will emerge as that by 2026, but right now, it's costing us. I wouldn't say you were playing in a particularly high-risk way or anything, you were quite happy for England to pass it around their defence and then pressed a lot more once it came into midfield. Not just sitting back, sure, and I don't think the onus is on USA to win but I wouldn't describe the approach as that attacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonus1010 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Rob's profile pic is so apt, is it actually Southgate posting on Si forums 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, skybluedave said: Not sure. I'm pretty drunk but I felt from like 55 minute to whenever Henderson came on we were gettting more and more penned back by the US and getting nowhere near their box. While that didn't change hugely after the sub, it definitely felt like we were playing a step higher. We obviously couldn't string a pass when near sniffing distance of their box mind But basically prior to his sub, I could see us conceeding. Afterward, never really thought we would. Henderson was charging around wondering why nobody was joining in the press, so he was either doing his own thing or the rest of the team weren't doing what Southgate wanted them to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Our press was awful. Never felt like their defence were ever stressed or came close to a mistake. They far too easily played balls into midfield with no stress. I hope that wasn't Tim Ream who strolled about 15 yards straight forward and set up an attack in first half Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bob Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 For me we didn't react to the game. In defence we were picked off by a disjointed press. In attack we didn't play into space on the flanks or if infield not enough on the half turn. We seemed more on our heels rather than moving. I was disappointed a player or direction from the staff did not get hold of this but I am still confident as these lads have tournament experience and this was not good but not a disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) Well, that was pathetic. Southgate will think job done because we’re out of the group but that was a dire performance. Boos from England fans around me, Americans were more upbeat but in agreement that it was a terrible game. Edited November 25, 2022 by Weezer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillHoward42 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 If England play like that against a team with actual attacking talent, they are done for. All well and good suggesting it was comfortable as they only conceded one shot on target. But what do you think will happen when a competent attack is let loose like that and over runs us. Let’s not forget how poor England have been the last 6-12 months prior to the Iran game either. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Chase Failey said: People calling for Southgate to be sacked Yes please 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eenie Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Rob1981 said: I think there was an element of this tonight. Possibly trying something out with the knockouts in mind, given that we have had limited preparation time and we knew we had three points already in the bag from Monday. Cede possession a bit but set up to try and stifle the opposition. And he’s done it with four at the back instead of his usual five and limited USA both sides to one shot on target all night. Clearly need to sharpen up going forward, but imagine if tonight gives him the confidence to play a back four against France or Argentina, and push another body higher up the pitch. Fixed that for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
git2thachoppa Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) England fans cried out for years for a clever manager and a team that managed games and tournaments, rather than leaving it to the death and choking. No reason to chase the game. With the Iran result, a draw means England would have to get walloped by Wales to be knocked out, in a match where Wales might only need to defend a 1-goal lead. Qualification is near-certain even for football. Edited November 25, 2022 by git2thachoppa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, JJ72 said: Southgate was happy with a draw. Pathetic Happy? He was positively beaming ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 31 minutes ago, The_jagster said: I wouldn't say you were playing in a particularly high-risk way or anything, you were quite happy for England to pass it around their defence and then pressed a lot more once it came into midfield. Not just sitting back, sure, and I don't think the onus is on USA to win but I wouldn't describe the approach as that attacking. Fair. We weren't recklessly chasing the game, but we didn't sit back or shy away from it either. Given the experience and limitations of the squad, quite pleased with our approach to the game. Anything more aggressive would've opened us up unnecessarily, while not really creating better chances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballfreak78 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Once again the English media makes fun of the U.S when the draw was made saying England got lucky. 3rd time playing the U.S in a WC match.......winless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 35 minutes ago, skybluedave said: Our press was awful. Never felt like their defence were ever stressed or came close to a mistake. They far too easily played balls into midfield with no stress. I hope that wasn't Tim Ream who strolled about 15 yards straight forward and set up an attack in first half Your press was nearly nonexistent. Perhaps the most baffling thing about the entire match. We have the second (I think?) youngest squad in the tournament. Yedlin is the only player that's been in a World Cup (and he didn't play). We showed in WCQ that we're vulnerable to pressing. Why wouldn't you put a little pressure on and see what happens? Tactically, that was incredibly comfortable for us. Far more comfortable than it should've been against a side expecting to challenge late in the competition. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Which was weird coz we pressed pretty well against Iran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Andrew_ said: How was this a hard point gained? What an odd question. Since when were England the underdog? Interviews from Southgate, Kane and Maguire were really uninspiring. All making out like it was a good result against a tough side. Nothing against USA but they’re a bang average side who offered virtually nothing going forward. I can’t see how in a scenario where Arteta, Pep or Klopp are manager they’re not coming out and saying the performance wasn’t poor and not good enough. I don’t get even really get what we were trying to do in the game. We weren’t really pressing at all. It’s like Southgate wanted to play out from the back but half the time Pickford is hitting it long or Maguire and Stones are passing it among themselves before passing it to a full back and hoping for something to happen. Kane playing so deep he’s in defensive midfield half the time so when we do knock it long nobody is up there. I don’t get why he’s doing that. He doesn’t do that for Spurs right? So I can’t see why or how Southgate would want him to drop as deep as he does. I know people like Pickford for England but if you want to play out from the back and actually create stuff he has to start Ramsdale. He won’t. And I accept Pickford is a better old school goalkeeper but ultimately Pickford can’t hit it 60 yards and find Saka or Sterling at their feet. Ramsdale can. White should also be involved IMO in some capacity. And what does Foden have to do get a game ffs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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