*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

[Platinum]

I think a big part of the problem is that the number of bugs seems to continue to grow (whether that's just our perception and not actually true doesn really matter).

The reason for this is that we have bugs that have been in the game for years that arent fixed. And then when a new game releases it has new features that are ALSO bugged. E.g. squad planner bugs, watch and ring bugs. 

So not only do the bugs that have been there for years still exist, but new bugs have been introduced with the new features. So from a customer perspective what hope can we have of old bugs being solved if every year the new features bring their own bugs in addition to the existing ones.

For the bugs that have existed for years better communication would help massively. Also as someone said we hve the bug tracker but after acknowledgement of the bug we dont hear anything again.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Platinum

[pedrosantos]

2 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Do people realize this video is from the last year, and 2 game versions ago (FM21)?

Sure, but the question still remains.

[Raymond85]

Haven’t managed to try the game yet. Has anyone on high end mac that suffered from match engine stuttering for too much gpu usage noted if it is sorted?

if not, i might be waiting fot it to be patched, as it is so annoying it is unplayable on my mac

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, KamyKaze said:

Am I the only one seing the OIs not being used in matches?

Set up:

 

In match:

 

Nothing got applied

That's because your OIs are set to position, but you've not actually selected them to be applied by position in the second picture 

[nb9]

5 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Do people realize this video is from the last year, and 2 game versions ago (FM21)?

It probably sums up the game though doesn't it?

That people can even watch a video and not tell the different between a version from 2 years ago - and the same problems that the video talks about persist.

I hope the reaction to this years FM is a massive wakeup call to SI. They are getting lazy and seem to be devoid of creativity which made the game so great in the first place.

Next years addition needs a huge amount of quality of life features and a fresh feel because it's clear they have taken advantage of loyal buyers in this years release. If they keep making the same mistakes they will lose that loyalty.

[KamyKaze]

4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That's because your OIs are set to position, but you've not actually selected them to be applied by position in the second picture 

Got it. Thanks

[nb9]

5 minutes ago, Platinum said:

I think a big part of the problem is that the number of bugs seems to continue to grow (whether that's just our perception and not actually true doesn really matter).

The reason fir this is that we have bugs that have been in the game for years that arent fixed. And then when a new game releases it hs new features that are ALSO bugged. E.g. squad planner bugs, watch and ring bugs. 

So not only do the bugs that have been there for years still exist, but new bugs have been introduced with the new features. So from a customer perspective what bope can we have of old bugs being solved if every year the new features bring their own bugs.

For the bugs that have existed for years better communication would help massively. Also as someone said we hve the bug tracker but after acknowledgement of the bug we dont hear anything again.

You are right but it's also little things that chip away at the playerbase for years and years that are just neglected.

Nothing sums up the menality at SI than the Squad view screen re-arrangment, it's just bone-idle that it hasn't been fixed for probably about a decade now. There are hundreds of other stuff like that which have just added up over the years - and with no notable improvements to the game the attention has really turned to them.

Stop taking the mickey SI.

[metal_guitarist]

12 minutes ago, Style said:

another year another dissapointment.

it seems we pay full price every year for the same game + new bugs.

in the recent years the game was always unplayable on its launch form. no changes or changelist from beta to full release so why u even bother to release beta? i think SI think we (the customers) are the QA team..

i appriciate SI for communication and assume they will fix all the bugs during the year, but common guys we expect for more.

There has only been one genuine occasion the game was unplayable at launch, that was back in FM09 when the DRM servers got DDOS'd and no-one could activate the game. Let's stop throwing hyperbole around and stick to facts. The game is more than playable at the moment. Yes it has it's issues but there's nothing gamebreaking like you claim.

[Troels Jensen]

So this wasn't fixed .. There's only one Erling.

[(sic)]

23 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Can't say I see them do it too often to be horrendous. The game needs some mistakes. Some I've reported as buggy, but we also need players making errors. Same with IFs/IWs, I've reported some examples, but also still find them dribbling really well at times. The last report I sent to Jack from a match had 3 bad examples and 6 good examples from the same player. I want them still making bad decisions tbh, but perhaps tweaking the balance slightly 

It's amazing honestly. These sorts of mistakes just aren't realistic though. And when you see a certain pattern play out each game, it really becomes annoying. 
Players often do this when there's a ball over the top as well.

[Choi seung won]

I really don't understand every year.

What the hell is the match engine team doing for a year so they can't catch bugs??

Every year paid users should report bugs.

Shouldn't the match engine team make a bug-free game before that?

I'm really annoyed.. they didn't fix the match engine during the official release.

We have to wait indefinitely again. To play the right game.

Games are always completed after March.

It's absurd.

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Choi seung won

[BrightLad5]

10 minutes ago, nb9 said:

Next years addition needs a huge amount of quality of life features and a fresh feel because it's clear they have taken advantage of loyal buyers in this years release. If they keep making the same mistakes they will lose that loyalty.

They should take a year off... release a basic DB update next October for a few quid and just work on making a new game that is actually NEW. Yearly Sports games are getting worse and worse... There are ZERO non-sport game that dont take breaks in their cycles to improve their franchise... SI need to re-evaluate things

[Just4Downloads]

7 minutes ago, (sic) said:

It's amazing honestly. These sorts of mistakes just aren't realistic though. And when you see a certain pattern play out each game, it really becomes annoying. 
Players often do this when there's a ball over the top as well.

I mean…it’s just completely game breaking.

[Jack Joyce]

2 minutes ago, Choi seung won said:

 

Shouldn't the match engine team make a bug-free game before that?

There's no such thing as a bug free game, and the vast majority of games are less complex than FM.

We release the best ME we can within the timeframes that we have, then we use your feedback to iterate and improve so that each ME update is better than the last. This feedback is crucial, since you're all playing millions of matches, whereas we can only play a fraction of that ourselves. We do our best to take in as much feedback as possible, and make the right fixes to take the engine forward and improve realism with each iteration, which is very, very difficult! The ME will never be 'finished', we'll always have things we want to improve or add and that's part of the beauty of working on FM.

But if we're saying that we can't release a match engine until it is bug free, then we'd never release one. 

[Domoboy23]

Is there a reason no clubs have nicknames? Or is it just on mine...

[DMaster2]

2 ore fa, MrPompey ha scritto:

have you checked your food and energy bills in 2023 compared to 2022, 2021, 2020

Have you checked how many copies of the game SI sell each year? This increase in price (more than 100% in 4 years) is absurd and unjustifiable

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, Marinho said:

Don't forget that against the very big teams most other teams will close up shop, meaning it becomes much harder to get off clean shots in the box. That's the reason why big teams often will tend to need more posession and shots "per goal". Yes, IRL City or Bayern or Barcelona will win most matches but they won't win them all 5-0, 6-1 or sth. This seems to be the case IRL as well, though someone will likely have pulled those numbers and checked ... If you manage a smaller club you might well experience the same from the other side of the equation. The smaller team will generally have fewer chances but they will also have more space to potentially get clean shots off when they manage to execute a counter attack well.

Aye people need to watch more football outside the EPL.

The team on the left, comfortably, won 2-1 by restricting their opponents to long range shots. Home side scored from their only 2 shots on target.

[BrightLad5]

3 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

and the vast majority of games are less complex than FM

Is this true? Genuine question. What's this based on?

I agree that there is no such thing as a bug free game though

[Meraklija Vujevic]

3 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

There's no such thing as a bug free game, and the vast majority of games are less complex than FM.

We release the best ME we can within the timeframes that we have, then we use your feedback to iterate and improve so that each ME update is better than the last. This feedback is crucial, since you're all playing millions of matches, whereas we can only play a fraction of that ourselves. We do our best to take in as much feedback as possible, and make the right fixes to take the engine forward and improve realism with each iteration, which is very, very difficult! The ME will never be 'finished', we'll always have things we want to improve or add and that's part of the beauty of working on FM.

But if we're saying that we can't release a match engine until it is bug free, then we'd never release one. 

why you releasing broken game every year

Why we need to wait until December for match engine update.

If something is broken try atleasty release updates on weekly base,

[RandomGuy.]

I stopped playing FM22 around Christmas last year, popping in a few times after the winter update.

The beta had already bored me as it was just the exact same really. I suspect ill have a week or so of playing the full game before moving on too, considering it seems like its just the beta in a new name.

Definitely wont bother with the beta next year, especially as its highly likely the majority of bugs we've see  for years will remain in the game and everything will look the exact same for about the 5th consecutive year. SI owe skinners a lot as the base UI they give you is both awful and boring yet it gets put into every version.

[GuitarMan]

1 minute ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

why you releasing broken game every year

Why we need to wait until December for match engine update.

If something is broken try atleasty release updates on weekly base,

Si have made it clear in the opening posts of the thread, that the ME is in a state they are happy with, and while it can be improved, its not worth doing those changes without proper testing of the changes to ensure there are no knock on effects of these changes. The time is needed to get that balance and update right. (this in relation to why you are waiting for the update). 

In regards to why the game may have bugs each year - the answer is in the post you have quoted from Jack, so I won't try to add extra words to his excellent explanation 

[MrPompey]

14 minutes ago, Choi seung won said:

I really don't understand every year.

What the hell is the match engine team doing for a year so they can't catch bugs??

Every year paid users should report bugs.

Shouldn't the match engine team make a bug-free game before that?

I'm really annoyed.. they didn't fix the match engine during the official release.

We have to wait indefinitely again. To play the right game.

Games are always completed after March.

It's absurd.

 

There is NO such thing as bug free software - FACT.

So what exactly are the bugs that you have witnessed that mean you cannot play the game?

[TheAwesomeGem]

33 minutes ago, Platinum said:

I think a big part of the problem is that the number of bugs seems to continue to grow (whether that's just our perception and not actually true doesn really matter).

The reason fir this is that we have bugs that have been in the game for years that arent fixed. And then when a new game releases it hs new features that are ALSO bugged. E.g. squad planner bugs, watch and ring bugs. 

So not only do the bugs that have been there for years still exist, but new bugs have been introduced with the new features. So from a customer perspective what bope can we have of old bugs being solved if every year the new features bring their own bugs.

For the bugs that have existed for years better communication would help massively. Also as someone said we hve the bug tracker but after acknowledgement of the bug we dont hear anything again.

I think SI really need to focus on bugs. Release a game without any new features but with most of the bugs fixed. This year, there were no major additions so I was hoping they spend all this time improving little things and fixing bugs but nope. Feels like majority of the time spend by SI this year was to add useless features.

[Meraklija Vujevic]

3 minutes ago, GuitarMan said:

Si have made it clear in the opening posts of the thread, that the ME is in a state they are happy with, and while it can be improved, its not worth doing those changes without proper testing of the changes to ensure there are no knock on effects of these changes. The time is needed to get that balance and update right. (this in relation to why you are waiting for the update). 

In regards to why the game may have bugs each year - the answer is in the post you have quoted from Jack, so I won't try to add extra words to his excellent explanation 

match engine is in happy state

Is this a joke!

[PineappleBlender]

15 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

There's no such thing as a bug free game, and the vast majority of games are less complex than FM.

We release the best ME we can within the timeframes that we have, then we use your feedback to iterate and improve so that each ME update is better than the last. This feedback is crucial, since you're all playing millions of matches, whereas we can only play a fraction of that ourselves. We do our best to take in as much feedback as possible, and make the right fixes to take the engine forward and improve realism with each iteration, which is very, very difficult! The ME will never be 'finished', we'll always have things we want to improve or add and that's part of the beauty of working on FM.

But if we're saying that we can't release a match engine until it is bug free, then we'd never release one. 

 

Hey Jack,

This isn't aimed at you, I think a lot of the problems people have is that almost every time a new game launches there are loads of bugs. It takes 6 months to patch the engine to a decent state, and then a few months later a new game drops and bam back to square one. Rinse and repeat. People don't especially enjoy paying good money to be beta testers,

Your team has a very difficult task, but this is more indicative of the software development practices at SI. If it's so complicated (I'm sure it is), then the version that makes it into release clearly needs to be locked down for the last 3-6 months of development, or you have stable and test branches developed in parallel. For instance the FM23 engine could have been locked down in summer for a stable release, while FM24 features have been in development for 3-6 months.

Where's the automation tools to profile things? Sure you can't throw as much manpower at things as the player base, but there's probably tooling and telemetry to check for outlying stats.

If you look at other aspects of development such as the release changelog being constantly withheld by the powers that be (suggesting it's embarrassingly short more than anything), it looks more like a problem with SI's development culture and practices. Which is obviously not your fault, but this is why people get annoyed.

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by PineappleBlender

[BrightLad5]

1 minute ago, GuitarMan said:

Si have made it clear in the opening posts of the thread, that the ME is in a state they are happy with

As long as SI are happy with it... cant wait for the classic "Its the best value for money game on the market" lines to start coming out  Their go-to excuse to justify not improve the game year on year

[FmTuga]

Last time i pre-order

Take a break, use people feedback and release a game with minimal bugs!

[MrPompey]

13 minutes ago, DMaster2 said:

Have you checked how many copies of the game SI sell each year? This increase in price (more than 100% in 4 years) is absurd and unjustifiable

If you feel its too expensive I guess then dont buy it. Maybe it was too cheap before

[GuitarMan]

2 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

As long as SI are happy with it... cant wait for the classic "Its the best value for money game on the market" lines to start coming out  Their go-to excuse to justify not improve the game year on year

Please note the second part of my post (and theirs) was that the ME can be improved, and they can and will do so, it just needs proper testing to ensure there are no knock on effects. 

[RandomGuy.]

VAR still not in Scottish football.

Announced it was happening in June.

Reported multiple times in the beta.

Still not there for the full release of the game.

Its just basic, simple, stuff that lets SI down, especially when you get battered with putting stupid jewellery on your manager.

Whoever dictates the direction of the game needs to have a long hard look at themselves, as theyre going miles in the wrong direction. I suspect its Miles considering he spends half his time gloating about how great his PS2 standard avatar looks all the time on twitter.

Edited November 8, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[Jack Joyce]

11 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

Is this true? Genuine question. What's this based on?

I agree that there is no such thing as a bug free game though

Absolutely, FM is an advanced simulation with thousands of players, staff, clubs etc. each of which with a huge amount of datapoints that affect their personality, playing ability, and more. Then we take this simulation and extrapolate it across save games that can be played for an indefinite amount of time. There's very, very few games that come close to that level of complexity, if any. 

It's what makes working on FM so fun and interesting, but also what makes it so difficult as well.

[sc91]

12 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

There's no such thing as a bug free game, and the vast majority of games are less complex than FM.

We release the best ME we can within the timeframes that we have, then we use your feedback to iterate and improve so that each ME update is better than the last. This feedback is crucial, since you're all playing millions of matches, whereas we can only play a fraction of that ourselves. We do our best to take in as much feedback as possible, and make the right fixes to take the engine forward and improve realism with each iteration, which is very, very difficult! The ME will never be 'finished', we'll always have things we want to improve or add and that's part of the beauty of working on FM.

But if we're saying that we can't release a match engine until it is bug free, then we'd never release one. 

Are we saying that the complexity is due to the vast possibility of outcomes that will come from a match engine, one would imagine the algorithm/code for a match would be infinitely complex, so the outcomes will always be an issue in the eye of the beholder (e.g. why didn't xyz player do xyz) and never a perfect system, and exercise in futility it could be said to try and perfect, as its impossible.

My bug bear with the releases and pricing point is that there is a laundry list of issues that seem to be rolled forward from previous FM versions (makes absolute sense for a yearly game, not a criticism on the method), that seem to be just going on and on, they might be minute in size and may only impact in a fraction of cases, in which case I can fully understand they're down the list of priorities but firing up and seeing the same issue with Scottish u18s that has been in game for a few editions now becomes reminiscent to the feeling of paying for a patch, rather than a new game.

[BrightLad5]

2 minutes ago, GuitarMan said:

Please note the second part of my post (and theirs) was that the ME can be improved, and they can and will do so, it just needs proper testing to ensure there are no knock on effects. 

Yes I'm aware that they have said they will be leaving it as is and looking to improve it at a later date... odd considering the Beta ME has had more stick and bugs than some previous iterations but this years there is no ME improvement from beta to full, which I believe might be the first year the ME has stayed the same from Beta to Full? 

 

4 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

Absolutely, FM is an advanced simulation with thousands of players, staff, clubs etc. each of which with a huge amount of datapoints that affect their personality, playing ability, and more. Then we take this simulation and extrapolate it across save games that can be played for an indefinite amount of time. There's very, very few games that come close to that level of complexity, if any. 

It's what makes working on FM so fun and interesting, but also what makes it so difficult as well.

Makes sense 

[styluz05]

1 hour ago, MrPompey said:

If you read the notes at the start they said NO ME changes from beta and then explained their reasons why

 

I mean the ME from FM22 to FM23 Beta. The game plays very differently.

 

[MrPompey]

7 minutes ago, styluz05 said:

I mean the ME from FM22 to FM23 Beta. The game plays very differently.

 

Oh, OK. Out of interest do you feel its better or worse and why

[greenz81]

40 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

There's no such thing as a bug free game, and the vast majority of games are less complex than FM.

We release the best ME we can within the timeframes that we have, then we use your feedback to iterate and improve so that each ME update is better than the last. This feedback is crucial, since you're all playing millions of matches, whereas we can only play a fraction of that ourselves. We do our best to take in as much feedback as possible, and make the right fixes to take the engine forward and improve realism with each iteration, which is very, very difficult! The ME will never be 'finished', we'll always have things we want to improve or add and that's part of the beauty of working on FM.

But if we're saying that we can't release a match engine until it is bug free, then we'd never release one. 

Then why are you not interacting and updating the fan base as often. The refusal of releasing a change list after beta is always a suspicious move. Bugs from now previous versions have returned. People assuming their players are an issue when it’s the engine itself. The past few years of beta release has not been utilised as well as it could be. I suggest SI release the beta a lot earlier than 2 weeks, whereas you actually ‘work’ with the beta testers. Those versions you were working on previously, we’re not released to the beta testers. We might have said, match engine perfect, it’s just the defenders just passing too much, but I can live with it until the next update. But nothing! All internal testing!

Edited November 8, 2022 by greenz81

[styluz05]

6 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Oh, OK. Out of interest do you feel its better or worse and why

I think it's changed a lot! And could be argued to be better or worst. But I think with the direction the ME has gone, SI should have explained in more depth or released video or videos.  

Personally I think it has huge potential but there are 1-3 things that needs sorting that currently make it less enjoyable to play/unplayable.

 

It has changed so much that players/consumers can't understand how to master it. Which will make them not enjoy it. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by styluz05

[SC00P0NE]

1 hour ago, Micho21 said:

Maybe it is a stupid question, but where the hell is the Pre-Game Editor? I couldn't find it in Steam, but all the others I bought (since 2013) do appear. Shouldn't it have come out?

restart steam, check again, had the same issue as you..

[greenz81]

6 minutes ago, styluz05 said:

I think it's changed a lot! And could be argued to be better or worst. But I think with the direction the ME has gone, SI should have explained in more depth or released video or videos.  

Personally I think it has huge potential but there are 1-3 things that needs sorting that currently make it less enjoyable to play/unplayable.

 

It has changed so much that players/consumers can't understand how to master it. Which will make them not enjoy it. 

I find myself in game a lot, trying to think of a way to translate what I want, into FM language. The advisors within the game point out the obvious, but don’t offer solutions or potential problems. I tick boxes or choose weird formations that don’t make sense to me, but they just work. 
it’s come to a point where I think SI don’t understand their own game. They just release it hoping someone can find some patterns and explain to the public. I’m surprised FM don’t have their own personal FM guru. 

[Ferocious289]

4 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

Then why are you not interacting and updating the fan base as often. The refusal of releasing a change list after beta is always a suspicious move. Bugs from now previous versions have returned. People assuming their players are an issue when it’s the engine itself. The past few years of beta release has not been utilised as well as it could be. I suggest SI release the beta a lot earlier than 2 weeks, whereas you actually ‘work’ with the beta testers. Those versions you were working on previously, we’re not released to the beta testers. We might have said, match engine perfect, it’s just the defenders just passing too much, but I can live with it until the next update. But nothing! All internal testing!

 

Arrogance and complacency is the only thing I can think of as to why our ''crucial'' feedback is not being treated with the respect it deserves

[forameuss]

44 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

Is this true? Genuine question. What's this based on?

I agree that there is no such thing as a bug free game though

I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's true.  If someone who actually has access to the code is telling you that though, they at least know 50% of the picture, significantly more than most of the people who like to throw out wild conjecture about something they know little about.

So on that conjecture, I wouldn't be surprised.  It's a fairly unique game, as even ones you could perhaps compare - other genre management etc - probably aren't having to model something as complex as 22 individual players trying to make up a football match.  There's a reason even EA and their deep, filthy pockets abandoned their management title, and why no other developer has decided to jump in (quite a few reasons, but that's not the topic).  And outside the match engine there's still the complexity of tens of thousands of individual agents having to interact with each other and support a gameworld that's supposed to feel alive and "real".  They're sorely lacking on that latter part, but that's not to say that it isn't already complex, in fact the complexity is likely what makes further advancement hard.

Long story short, from experience on software that's nowhere near as complex, I expect the real picture with regards to bugs is probably far worse than any individual user will ever see.  But that's just software.  Could SI do better?  Undoubtedly, and I expect many - if not all - within SI would agree.  But throwing out stuff like some do (not directed at you) questioning whether they can be arsed or not must be absolutely maddening to people working really hard to deliver what is ultimately not looking like much progression.

[Choi seung won]

54 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

There's no such thing as a bug free game, and the vast majority of games are less complex than FM.

We release the best ME we can within the timeframes that we have, then we use your feedback to iterate and improve so that each ME update is better than the last. This feedback is crucial, since you're all playing millions of matches, whereas we can only play a fraction of that ourselves. We do our best to take in as much feedback as possible, and make the right fixes to take the engine forward and improve realism with each iteration, which is very, very difficult! The ME will never be 'finished', we'll always have things we want to improve or add and that's part of the beauty of working on FM.

But if we're saying that we can't release a match engine until it is bug free, then we'd never release one. 

It is true that users can play millions of matches.

By the way.

Many of the defense-related bugs reported on the Match Engine Bug Tracker right now are obvious to anyone after playing a few games. ...

what's even more annoying?

while completely useless features like manager appearance (watches, accessories, etc.) are added, the really important issues like improving the appearance of the stadium, improving the set pieces and improving the national team are not taken into account at all.

[MrPompey]

Just now, Ferocious289 said:

 

Arrogance and complacency is the only thing I can think of as to why our ''crucial'' feedback is not being treated with the respect it deserves

I think this has been explained at the start of the thread in terms of change between Beta And Full release:

ME = No Changes

Player Animations = GK animations that looked strange e.g. players saving / diving with feet

DB = Minor changes including some key club managerial changes

So the changes have been confirmed

[Nic Madden]

1 hour ago, PineappleBlender said:

Your team has a very difficult task, but this is more indicative of the software development practices at SI. If it's so complicated (I'm sure it is), then the version that makes it into release clearly needs to be locked down for the last 3-6 months of development, or you have stable and test branches developed in parallel. For instance the FM23 engine could have been locked down in summer for a stable release, while FM24 features have been in development for 3-6 months.

I know that you messaged Jack, but it wasn't aimed at him, I thought it was fair to reply, especially as you made some interesting points and come from a different perspective.

In an ideal world, we would of course like to lock down everything earlier. We do lock down the ME from adding features earlier in the development cycle, and then it is about balancing the engine and fixing bugs and issues. If we were to lock down the engine even earlier, there would be even less features and improvements, and on a yearly iteration of our game, our development cycle is quite small anyways, so losing 3-6 months of development, iterations and improvements would mean there would be little difference between one product to the next.

In terms of tooling and automation, we automate the engine continuously, we continually balance the simulation and this is a constant process of making sure the Match Engine is as balanced as it can be against real life stats, though automation and stats can only get you so far and the eye test is vital. We spend time improving our tooling and automation each cycle.

In terms of our development practices, I've been the producer on the Match Team for 5 years now and we've changed and evolved as a team during that time, our development practices have improved during that time and we review them continually, especially after every cycle to see how we can improve the way we work to get the best product for our fans and do the best within the time frame we have.

To highlight Jack's point, we are striving for the perfect simulation of football, that is what we are aiming for and well, there is always things we can improve and we can always make it better.

 

[SC00P0NE]

58 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

They should take a year off... release a basic DB update next October for a few quid and just work on making a new game that is actually NEW. Yearly Sports games are getting worse and worse... There are ZERO non-sport game that dont take breaks in their cycles to improve their franchise... SI need to re-evaluate things

yea, but it's not like SI could do what they want.. Isn't what you want up to SEGA?

[Dagenham_Dave]

27 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

odd considering the Beta ME has had more stick and bugs than some previous iterations

That's a far bigger reflection on the people complaining than the state of the match engine itself.  There were nowhere near as many (actual) bugs in this year's ME during the beta than there was in previous years, but people have been lining up to have a pop at the game since the new features came out and some YouTubers moaned about it. That's why we've got to where we're at. 

@Rashidiproved earlier that the hyperbolic reaction to the issues with the match engine are mostly nonsense. And he's someone who's opinion I definitely respect. As well as watching things with my own eyes and not being influenced by YouTubers with American accents... 

Anyway, this is where I will take my annual leave of the feedback thread. Happy moaning everybody 

[greenz81]

2 minutes ago, Choi seung won said:

It is true that users can play millions of matches.

By the way.

Many of the defense-related bugs reported on the Match Engine Bug Tracker right now are obvious to anyone after playing a few games. ...

what's even more annoying?

while completely useless features like manager appearance (watches, accessories, etc.) are added, the really important issues like improving the appearance of the stadium, improving the set pieces and improving the national team are not taken into account at all.

That what gripes me the most. The graphical ‘enhancements’. 
People that play FM, normally have been playing it for years. A lot of repeat customers. These are the voices SI should be listening to… but it looks like they looking for FIFA fan base with theses graphical add-ons. Squad planner (graphics), match engine (graphics), manager (graphics). 
the interaction with players on and outside of the pitch is completely lacking. Team talks are all guess work! This is what they should be working on!

[upthetoon]

The most underwhelming release in recent years in my opinion. Very disappointed.

Lots of bugs reported years after years are still in the game. The headline features are terrible, some of it implemented poorly and doesn't even work properly. 

End of the day, I know it's business. I belive 80-90% of the player base doesn't even come to forums. The hardcore loyal fan base are pushed to the side and almost disrespected. 

Years and years of seeing the same bugs being reported in the bug forums and still not fixed. No idea where do we go from here. 

Will never pre order again and wait till March. 

[Ferocious289]

13 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

I think this has been explained at the start of the thread in terms of change between Beta And Full release:

ME = No Changes

Player Animations = GK animations that looked strange e.g. players saving / diving with feet

DB = Minor changes including some key club managerial changes

So the changes have been confirmed

Those changes are laughable. They had 3 weeks to fix/mend/patch at least over 3-5 of the 1000 other glaring  issues within the game from the time of the reports. The new headline feature squad planner doesn't even work right, cup draws are messed up, defenders are messed up, player unhappiness is messed up,database player stats are more or less the same from fm22 and a ton of other stuff which you can find in the bug tracker that could have been looked at before insulting us with making the GK looking more animated or changing managers which anyone can do with the pre or in game editor that takes less than a minute.

There is no justification for this, what really should happen is SI should swallow their pride and issue a public apology to those who used up their free time to be unpaid testers during the beta and those of us who pre-ordered who expected the full release to be different from the beta.

That would go a long way in building back rapport and trust from it's loyal fanbase, instead of acting like they've done everything the right way and anyone who has an issue is the problem.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Ferocious289

[Novem9]

1 час назад, BrightLad5 сказал:

Is this true? Genuine question. What's this based on?

 

ME reproduces 22 independent variables that must interact with each other, imitating the existing football rules. It's actually a miracle that someone could create this with modern (pretty primitive) programming tools. The number of options tends to infinity. I sincerely believe that the engine itself was ahead of its time.

Outside of matches, we have a huge global strategy / kind of RPG with thousands of participants and tens of factors. FM22 much more lively, 2036 soon and I feel it just starting. In prev editions (especially non-purple) it was wooooooorse.

Compare this challenge to building a linear shooter.

(At the same time, I believe that FM has fallen into some kind of stagnation, especially the interface and long-term errors jar me)

Edited November 8, 2022 by Novem9