Are we OK with SI launching a pre-order campaign with absolutely no details on new features?

[Wakers]

Just a question. No new features will be announced until a few days before the pre-order promotion ends.

 

I can imagine what people would be saying about this if EA were doing it. Is this an SI idea, or is it a SEGA one?

 

Is it OK? It's a bit on the side of unethical to me. Personally I think people should have some information about features before a pre-order promotion is launched.

[Cougar2010]

Doesn't particularly bother me.

 

CM/FM have been round for long enough that people generally know what they are getting and buying into.  You aren't forced to pre-order & I'm sure a lot of features will be announced before the pre-order offer ends.

[matisptfan]

No, and that is one of the reasons I won´t pre-order. But they can do whatever they want.

[Wavelberry]

Of course you could could have lots of pre-order hype and then not live up to any of the stuff you say. No Man's Sky anyone?

[Wakers]

7 minutes ago, Wavelberry said:

Of course you could could have lots of pre-order hype and then not live up to any of the stuff you say. No Man's Sky anyone?

Well I don't think SI have ever lied about game features before, so that shouldn't be a problem regardless.

[grade]

I for one think is bad marketing plan. There needs to be something to create the hype to make people want to pre-order aside from the 20% discount. 

I for one need to have something worth for me to buy the game with the discount. But has it was said it is FM. But I can't shake the feeling what if they announce a feature that I don't like? What do I do then?

No... I think have been more grounded then previous years and I need to see the features first, before i make a decision.

A feature that I would certainly pre-order the game would be FMT Editor, but I find it extremely unlikely that to happen.

[Wavelberry]

 

4 minutes ago, Wakers said:

Well I don't think SI have ever lied about game features before, so that shouldn't be a problem regardless.

True dat. It was just a more general point about the games industry and pre-ordering. Do you really believe much of it? I tend to go on whether the developer has delivered in the past and whether I will like playing the game.

SI are in a good position as mentioned above because they have delivered year on year and most people know what they're getting.

[Wakers]

Personally I don't pre-order anything. In the age of digital games I think it's a silly thing to do.

 

If anything I wait for the inevitable discount 2 months after release.

 

The issue is there are people out there that are susceptible to marketing. Our brains are susceptible marketing in general. So while I always tell people pre-ordering digital games is silly, I don't think we should let devs and publishers get away with shady marketing schemes, either.

 

Have SI delivered year on year? I'm not sure. For every good version of FM there's one or two really bad ones.

[hluraven]

When they announce the game with lots of new features, there is usually  similar negative threads from the opposite perspective.

Three main things if the first announcement contains lots of new things - 1: Later announcements have little (if any) big new features and they are slated. 2: They are told they mis-timed the hype, being too early and dying off to release 3: The main one, people demand/judge the new features on very alpha screenshots. Usually followed by being told they should only announce it later when it is more complete or the new features look terrible!

They really can't win on this one, but in any event, they can do it however they want and I am "OK" with it. Most people will either pre-order regardless of announcements as we all know exactly what we are getting already. Those who are on the fence are extremely unlikely to pre-order based solely on an announcement a couple of months from release, there aren't really any missing features that will swing masses of purchasers right now.

[Cougar2010]

5 minutes ago, Wakers said:

The issue is there are people out there that are susceptible to marketing. Our brains are susceptible marketing in general. So while I always tell people pre-ordering digital games is silly, I don't think we should let devs and publishers get away with shady marketing schemes, either.

A lot of people are susceptible to marketing which is why you see so much of it nowadays.  Its something I personally dislike and there is a very fine line between getting your product/brand/service known & taking advantage of the gullible but as long as people keep throwing money at these things it will continue to happen.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Wakers said:

Have SI delivered year on year? I'm not sure. For every good version of FM there's one or two really bad ones.

I wouldn't agree with that at all.

I have pretty much every version since the beginning and I wouldn't describe any of them as bad.  One or two I would maybe call poor at that time but certainly not bad (especially after the final patch).

[hungmn]

It's just not the best way to attract new players to play the game.

For someone who plays every version since cm96 like me, I know I'll buy it regardless of new features.

To be honest, I'm more than happy if they just release with only a much improved match engine/animation, nothing else. And revert tactics screen to FM13 or 14 style.

[Neil Brock]

We've made a number of different approaches to this over the years and it's difficult to say which ones are strictly 'right' or 'wrong'. I think until we try them we won't know. If say a large number people are put off by pre-ordering prior to any feature announcement then fair enough, if that proves to be the case then we'll realise it wasn't the right strategy.  We appreciate people having a discussion about this and can understand the differing opinions. 

If you've bought FM every year and enjoyed it, then pre-order it early and get the two week beta. If you're in no rush, as Wakers said wait weeks or months after release, hear the reviews, see the new features, play the demo etc. Everyone has a different take on this. So do whatever you want!

[kpsia518]

i think this pre-order campaign is for China player.& we will see more china players buy the original.
but for some of the chinese people :
 

Quote

 

No chinese language = unreadable = ununderstandable = unplayable = unbuyable

 

 

 

 

[shirajzl]

FM is in a rare position where most people buy it by default. It's just something you play every year regardless. It ties into "How old are you" thread here which shows a large number of what you'd consider "old" people for gaming.

Adults with jobs and families who like gaming as a hobby usually focus their limited time to one game, and FM is perfect at that as you play it at your own pace and the game doesn't require your full attention to the screen all the time.

That's why SI can freely experiment with different PR strategies.  

[Ross Ingersoll]

seeing as how the deal runs until Oct 14, Dont really see the big deal. im pretty sure you will know the new features by then. 

[mikenevo]

It doesn't bother me one bit. I've enjoyed football management sim games since I was a kid playing Premier Manager 98. I've enjoyed football manager for a long time and have played all installments since I started with FM back in the mid 00's.

Every FM has it's flaws as is expected, but it has never stopped me enjoying the game and I can say 100% that I will enjoy fm2017 no matter what.

I will be pre-ordering just so I can play 2 weeks early

[RorysRocketThrow]

Absolutely no problem here and I want to register my thanks for the loyalty bonus/discount.  Not many games companies do it and in this day and age, it's a very good thing to do.

As for the lack of details, one thing i'd say is that there is a long history of SI creating a playable and enjoyable game straight out of the box, with a longer history of releasing any patches that may be required to fix any issues and enhance the game.

We may all disagree on what we class as game breaking issues and suchlike but the commitment from the company to the game and genre surely can't be questioned?  I'd say it's one of the most risk free things you could do with your 20+ pounds this autumn!

[forameuss]

Who cares?

They're offering an optional preorder.  You have the option of not exercising that if you don't think you've been persuaded enough.  

This isn't some new IP where you have no idea what the game is about.  If someone was to draw what it'd look like, they'd probably be pretty spot on.  A core of players will have already preordered, taking advantage of the offer.  A lot won't, and will wait until they hear about features.  A lot on top of that won't preorder at all and will wait for release.  Each to their own.

I'm absolutely baffled that people are getting up in arms over something which is completely optional.

[stevie_G_32201]

Pre-orders are there for the people that want it, you don't have to pre-order if you don't want to. they can do whatever they want with their own game.

[Maaka]

The pre-order discount is for those who already have several FM versions. If you have '13, '14, '15 and '16, then you get 20% off.
Anyone who qualifies for the 20% discount pretty much has good knowledge of what they'll get if they by '17, even though no new features have been announced yet. And still, with the campaign going until Oct. 14., I'd say you've got plenty of time to decide.

[michael]

To be honest we all know the main shape of the game we are pre-ordering because it will be the same as all the FM games before. You either enjoy the game or you don't, does the fact that you might not be able to send your scout somewhere, or talk to a coach or player in a certain way really decide if you buy it or not. As long as the main frame of the game is sound then that is what we want.

[withnail316]

It's a bit like buying a season ticket at many football clubs. If you buy it early, you have no idea what signings your club will make (or who you will sell) but you get a tidy discount. If you hang on a while, you know more about the make-up of the squad, but it costs a bit more.

Seems reasonable enough to me.

[PleasedToMichu]

The advantage of FM is that you pretty know what your getting straight off the bat. New features/extras aside, you know the base of what you are getting.

Whether i get it early or late for a sale/discount or whatever, FM is pretty much the only game i buy without looking at any reviews. I've been playing addicted long enough to know that no matter what, i'm getting a game i'm going to pour serious hours in to.

[Just-Wool]

I'm OK with it. I mean it's FM - it's not like the game will drastically change this year and be some sort of FPS instead. It's a pretty mature game at this point and the guys at SI know who their audience is.

Plus, this 20% discount is for long time players anyway, we know what we're getting into if we qualify and the whole thing runs until a week before the beta would presumably start. We'll know key features by then, so if you feel like you need more info you should be able to wait and get your discount.

[Karnack]

I'm fine with it. I would buy the game every year if the only thing we got was the many improvements of the ME & an updated database. All other features are just bonuses.

[danpker]

No. The game has stagnated in the past few years and doesn't seem to have improved very much at all. I won't be putting any money down until the new features are announced, and even then only if they're worth upgrading for.

[Staf9]

don't see an issue with it. I buy the game ever year. I know roughly what I am getting without having to see the new features list.

most of them are just window dressing anyway. SI are very good at what they do and with the demo release we always get a patch on release day to fix glaring issues.

[Powermonger]

It would've been nice to at least get some details on the game on the release date announcement, maybe just one major new change, just to wet the appetite but I will still be buying it regardless.

[danpker]

4 minutes ago, dREIS said:

Care to elaborate? the came has come a long way and some huge improvements to the match engine in recent years an overhaul of the training system. More control over our own manager attributes and increased levels of interaction with players. I'm baffled by your statement.

The match engine seems to take 2 steps forward, 3 steps back and then another step forward in patches, I don't feel like it's any different than it's ever been. I'm not sure what you mean about the training system. It seems to change UI every 2/3 years but it's pretty much been the same basic system for a while. Manager attributes are ok I guess but not exactly worth writing home about.

I'd like to see big steps forward. Some of the stuff from OOTP would be great, the rules and philosophy of the game changing over time (think league rep on steroids, different tactical fads coming and going, etc). The ability to create fantasy worlds like OOTP as well would be great. I'd also like to see big improvements on core areas of the game. AI squad building is pretty bad to be honest, player ratings could do with a big improvement, etc.

[Pingdinho]

I found it particularly egregious when Miles's heavies kicked my door down and he forced me to preorder. Then he chucked 20% of that money back in my face. In my very face! The nerve, I tell you.

Anyway, what's done is done I suppose. I might as well put a thousand hours into it. If I have to.

I heard a rumour that in FM17 you'll be able to manage a football team of your choice and it will have an updated database to reflect recent changes in the footballing world. Can anyone confirm that?!

[themadsheep2001]

Considering this offer runs until October 14th, I see no issue with this. Plenty of time to listen out for things. 

[2calvin]

If they released features now, how many would have pre-ordered through steam? Not half as many I suspect. So no release of features sets a panic buy in fear of missing out on the 20% discount. Feels a bit shady to me but its their product do whatever the hell they want!!

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, 2calvin said:

If they released features now, how many would have pre-ordered through steam? Not half as many I suspect. So no release of features sets a panic buy in fear of missing out on the 20% discount. Feels a bit shady to me but its their product do whatever the hell they want!!

It runs till October 14th, we will be hearing news by then. Your point really doesn't hold any water. 

[Pingdinho]

1 minute ago, 2calvin said:

If they released features now, how many would have pre-ordered through steam? Not half as many I suspect. So no release of features sets a panic buy in fear of missing out on the 20% discount. Feels a bit shady to me but its their product do whatever the hell they want!!

Seems a bit harsh to associate a roughly 8 week pre-order offer window with a panic buy.

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, Pingdinho said:

Seems a bit harsh to associate a roughly 8 week pre-order offer window with a panic buy.

If people are panicking on such a window, it says a lot more about them than anything else. 

[BoxToBox]

I find there is two groups of FM players.

1. Will buy instantly, want the 2(is it?) weeks of beta, want the updates asap. This rewards them, and makes sure the game is ready to download the moment it's available on Steam.

2. Will wait until after the winter window/patches. This affects them in no way whatsoever(they'll usually get the game on sale/on the cheap anyway).

 

I don't see the problem.

[QWERTYOP]

I'm glad somebody made a thread about this. I'm not happy about that one bit. "We're not going to tell you a single thing about the game - give us your money". Doesn't sit right with me whatsoever.

[Cougar2010]

4 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

I'm glad somebody made a thread about this. I'm not happy about that one bit. "We're not going to tell you a single thing about the game - give us your money". Doesn't sit right with me whatsoever.

Except SI have never said that have they?

All they have done is given those that want to pre-order the ability to do so.  The offer is there for nearly two months and during that time they'll release details about the game.

If you want to pre-order you can, if you want to wait until you know more about the game you can, if you want to wait until the game is released you can, if you want to wait for a sale later on you can - See you have choice.

[Welshace]

I genuinely can't see the issue with it...

 

They have done nothing different this year to last, apart from adding a nice bonus for those who wish to preorder this early.... 

 

it's not like they are holding back info for longer than usual.. or forcing people to buy now, it's clearly just a nice loyalty bonus..

[QWERTYOP]

Just now, dREIS said:

It's a Football Management sim. With updated teams and data for the 2016/17 Season. You can select a team you wish to manage take control and see if you can navigate through tough cup competitions, long slogging leagues, cold wet nights in Stoke and hot sticky days in Blackpool. Can you reach the pinnacle and win the league? Will you become the greatest Manager in history? find out November 2017.

Aren't you clever! So what are the new features that will dictate whether I want to slap thirty-odd quid down on it or not? "We're not telling you. Shut up and give us your money".

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

Aren't you clever! So what are the new features that will dictate whether I want to slap thirty-odd quid down on it or not? "We're not telling you. Shut up and give us your money".

Those horrible people, forcing you to spend your money like that on a completely optional product.  How very dare they.

[Welshace]

4 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

Aren't you clever! So what are the new features that will dictate whether I want to slap thirty-odd quid down on it or not? "We're not telling you. Shut up and give us your money".

 

 

Who's said ' we're not telling you, shut up and give us your money?'  ... no-ones asking you for your money, and no-ones saying 'we're not telling you' ..

 

This time last year there wasn't any details released either.... it's just this yearm if you prefer to pre order, theres a lovely bonus for you.

 

If not, feel free to wait.. you have two months of this promotion.

[QWERTYOP]

Hey, if you're happy to have your custom taken for granted by S.I (which is exactly what this "tactic" smacks of) then good for you. Thankfully, not everybody feels that way. S.I are very good at treating the FM fanbase with disdain & taking them for granted. Why shouldn't they be, I suppose? We buy the game in our millions every year no matter what. It's almost like the customers are a necessary inconvenience to them sometimes.

[Just-Wool]

10 minutes ago, dREIS said:

It's a Football Management sim. With updated teams and data for the 2016/17 Season. You can select a team you wish to manage take control and see if you can navigate through tough cup competitions, long slogging leagues, cold wet nights in Stoke and hot sticky days in Blackpool. Can you reach the pinnacle and win the league? Will you become the greatest Manager in history? find out November 2017.

 

Please note: you are under no obligation to pre-purchase, we don't employ the mafia. Cold wet nights in Stoke are subject to change.

Not really, cold, wet nights in Stoke are pretty much the standard for us. Which is particularly weird that we have an open air terrace restaurant and entertainment complex now.

[forameuss]

Just now, QWERTYOP said:

Hey, if you're happy to have your custom taken for granted by S.I (which is exactly what this "tactic" smacks of) then good for you. Thankfully, not everybody feels that way. S.I are very good at treating the FM fanbase with disdain & taking them for granted. Why shouldn't they be, I suppose? We buy the game in our millions every year no matter what. It's almost like the customers are a necessary inconvenience to them sometimes.

All this over a completely optional preorder.  They'll release their features before the offer is over, rendering all of this pointless.  You're making an absolutely enormous deal over nothing.  Had they said "You can only get 20% off for the next week, during which we'll be telling you nothing about the game" then you might have a point.  As it is, you don't.

[STaphouse]

19 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

I'm glad somebody made a thread about this. I'm not happy about that one bit. "We're not going to tell you a single thing about the game - give us your money". Doesn't sit right with me whatsoever.

What do you need to know about the game?

Not going to lie, I wouldn't care if it had no massive new features and they just improved the stuff that currently needs improving. 

 

In fact i'd spend £50 on it if they just got rid of sh*t press conferences.

[roykela]

My little take on this would be;

Why would i pre-order the game when i know nothing about the upcoming game?!
If i knew about the features i would have a better idea of whether the features would improve my FM-experience or not.

If it won't improve the experience then it would be a waste of money. Be it £1 or £1000 (You get the picture, i hope).
I would then regret the purchase, as i would rather have been sticking with FM16.

If it would improve the experience i would of course buy it. But then i would miss out on the pre-order discount which would be a shame.
Because i would like to wait until i have most of the features announced. (Of course that might still happen).
I pre-order after reviewing my financial situation and find that "now's the time to get it".

Personally i don't like this strategy. Because i'll either buy the game, just for the price, without knowing anything about it.
Or i'll not buy the game and possibly realise that i wish i'd purchased it because at that time i had the money (- and now i don't).

With that in mind; if i would pre-purchase the game now it would be purely because of the discount. And that's something i can't do.
I want to know what i'm buying (yes, i know it's FM )

But hey! That's just me.

[Cougar2010]

1 minute ago, QWERTYOP said:

Hey, if you're happy to have your custom taken for granted by S.I (which is exactly what this "tactic" smacks of) then good for you. Thankfully, not everybody feels that way. S.I are very good at treating the FM fanbase with disdain & taking them for granted. Why shouldn't they be, I suppose? We buy the game in our millions every year no matter what. It's almost like the customers are a necessary inconvenience to them sometimes.

So why do you buy the game then? Especially given the amount of whining you do about it each version.

TBH its quite a selfish attitude you have, you want to stop SI from giving people the option.  What gives you the right to say when people can or can't buy a product?

 

Oh & for the record I haven't pre-ordered and won't be until much closer to the offer deadline where I will make my choice.

[Danchinaski]

3 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

Hey, if you're happy to have your custom taken for granted by S.I (which is exactly what this "tactic" smacks of) then good for you. Thankfully, not everybody feels that way. S.I are very good at treating the FM fanbase with disdain & taking them for granted. Why shouldn't they be, I suppose? We buy the game in our millions every year no matter what. It's almost like the customers are a necessary inconvenience to them sometimes.

I completely disagree with this. I only came on this forum for tech support, so haven't been around here long, but since I've been here I've bleated and moaned about the game on the bugs forum and, usually, these problems have been politely acknowledged and discussed with those who work at SI. Those who've been here longer than me bemoan the dissolution of a "community" but my first post on here was a rant about performance issues and to my surprise l received a helpful solution almost immediately. The majority of my gripes and frustrations about the game have been openly discussed - and FWIW I'm not a fanboy, l doubt I'll be pre-ordering immediately because I'm really disappointed in FM16, but the 20% discount for those fanboy types is fair enough. I'll probably avoid this and get it cheaper, further down the line, because of how l feel about the game presently. The choice is mine, and ultimately SI owe me sod all.

[Just-Wool]

1 minute ago, QWERTYOP said:

Hey, if you're happy to have your custom taken for granted by S.I (which is exactly what this "tactic" smacks of) then good for you. Thankfully, not everybody feels that way. S.I are very good at treating the FM fanbase with disdain & taking them for granted. Why shouldn't they be, I suppose? We buy the game in our millions every year no matter what. It's almost like the customers are a necessary inconvenience to them sometimes.

What would you do that's better? For years now people have been asking for SI to give people who buy the game every year some sort of deal. They now are. A 20% discount if you have the last 4 versions which will be up for 2 months and end approx 3 weeks before release. 

The key thing there is the time frame. You can either buy now (which some will as they'll buy the game anyway, regardless) or wait until later when info starts trickling down and you can buy with your discount at another time. At least this way, SI can potentially beat some of the rush for the games like FIFA/PES and get a few more customers than they might get if they didn't allow pre release.