NOT SOUTHGATE'S LAST HURRAH: The England 2022 campaign

[Lucas]

2 minutes ago, SouthCoastRed said:

Where’s Sterling then? 

Family matter. Had to be something as I was surprised he was not starting. 

[Mahzun_Savas]

Southgate is an idiot not to start Rashford. 

[Darren Moores Mum]

Henderson

 

[m_fenton]

51 minutes ago, Rebs said:

No Rashford apparently....ffs I wanted Saka, Foden, and Rashford.

26 minutes ago, Bootador said:

This awkward, that's exactly the team I'd have gone for (ideally you'd take Phillips over Henderson but not sure where he's at match fitness wise)

28 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Rashford rewarded for his 2 goals by being dropped to the bench. Too attacking for Southgate.

The exact team I wanted too. Are people forgetting that Rashford actually played pretty poorly for most of the Wales game? First half in particular a lot of our attacks broke down because of basic mistakes from him. He scored a good free kick and a goal that any decent keeper would have saved, nothing that our other options would be incapable of. Good option off the bench and hopefully brimming with confidence though.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Hope it's nothing too serious with Sterling, would be a huge blow to lose him from the squad.

[Tony85]

Shocking lineup? Talk about hyperbole. There’s one or two you can argue about but that’s about it. 

[RTHerringbone]

1 minute ago, Tony85 said:

Shocking lineup? Talk about hyperbole. There’s one or two you can argue about but that’s about it. 

It's EUH. Just fishing for a bite again.

[Citizen Sandman]

Henderson is a real leader, I wasn't a fan 6 years ago but last few he deserves respect. 

[Mr Adam]

Henderson will never get the respect he’s earned. He’s dropped off recently but even when he was at his best people would be like “Henderson wtf?!?”

Im biased like. But it’s happened to both the Sunderland lads throughout their England careers so I’m more likely to spot it. I don’t think there’s ever been a time when the majority of England fans (at least if Twitter is to go by) wanted either Henderson or Pickford in the team. 

[ajw10]

2 hours ago, Mahzun_Savas said:

Southgate is an idiot not to start Rashford. 

[Barry Cartman]

2 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Hope it's nothing too serious with Sterling, would be a huge blow to lose him from the squad.

Unconfirmed reports his house has been robbed 

[Barry Cartman]

Sterling is going home according to Gareth 

[Bootador]

 

[skybluedave]

9 hours ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

The luck of the Irish will hopefully not be with you this time...

Thanks for the luck 

Unfortunately I'll probably be watching France game at home. So blame me next week lads

[skybluedave]

19 minutes ago, Bootador said:

 

That is freaking awful. Lets do it for Raheem lads

[VamPook]

Well all the comments about Hendo aged well

[adhikapp]

I've swallowed my words. Henderson was amazing last night. He'll probably need to play against France now to help press the Griezmann-Rabiot-Mbappe triangle on their left.

[Bigwig]

Spirited defeat against France followed by a new 5-year contract for Sir Gareth. It’s the English way. 

[Citizen Sandman]

1 hour ago, Bigwig said:

Spirited defeat against France followed by a new 5-year contract for Sir Gareth. It’s the English way. 

Tbh I can't imagine him at any club

[skybluedave]

[kopsy101]

1 hour ago, skybluedave said:

[Barry Cartman]

1 hour ago, skybluedave said:

[Coulthard's Jaw]

3 hours ago, skybluedave said:

[Rob1981]

These two laughing at Capello’s man management  

[Rob1981]

Joe Cole laying into him on ITV now  

[Pukey]

Can't remember how it was received at the time but looking back it's completely insane how bad his management was. I get discipline but he seemed like a prison warden rather than a strict football manager. 

[Weezer]

Tbf his record is good away from England, maybe if some of our players from that generation listened to him a little bit they wouldn’t have wasted their talent.

[Crispypaul]

34 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Tbf his record is good away from England, maybe if some of our players from that generation listened to him a little bit they wouldn’t have wasted their talent.

After that he was sacked by Russia and a Chinese side - not the greatest.

[Weezer]

29 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

After that he was sacked by Russia and a Chinese side - not the greatest.

Probably lost his passion for the job after trying to coach our mob.

I mean, yeah his record was poor for England but at the time the likes of Joe Cole and Peter Crouch laughing at Fabio Capello is a joke  

[skybluedave]

He won something with every team he managed until England. We just broke him

[Rob1981]

Beckham getting a selfie with some England greats 

[Constantine]

Any other foreign Qatari sellout take a pics with his own NT folks, you guys couldn't grab those pitchforks fast enough...

[enigmatic]

2 hours ago, Pukey said:

Can't remember how it was received at the time but looking back it's completely insane how bad his management was. I get discipline but he seemed like a prison warden rather than a strict football manager. 

The only thing he wasn't strict on was John Terry sleeping with international teammates' wives and racially abusing their brothers

[Crispypaul]

24 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

The only thing he wasn't strict on was John Terry sleeping with international teammates' wives and racially abusing their brothers

Not to defend Captain Lionheart himself but I am pretty sure that's not correct.

[enigmatic]

4 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

Not to defend Captain Lionheart himself but I am pretty sure that's not correct.

OK, she was only his then girlfriend and mother of his kids.

[Weezer]

17 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

OK, she was only his then girlfriend and mother of his kids.

Fair game then.

[Pukey]

Wrong thread ffs

Edited December 6, 2022 by Pukey

[Razzler]

16 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Joe Cole laying into him on ITV now  

John Terry has been doing some stuff for beIN Sports and he wasn't overly impressed with Capello's 'strictness' either, been talking about it a bit. Not allowed this, not allowed that, etc

[skybluedave]

No ketchup

[Razzler]

16 hours ago, Weezer said:

Tbf his record is good away from England, maybe if some of our players from that generation listened to him a little bit they wouldn’t have wasted their talent.

I really don't think he was around long enough to 'influence a generation' tbh

We qualified in style and then, Capello started acting weird. He was trying to get people out of retirement. Hang on, we just qualified nicely, what's all this. The build up to the World Cup we were turgid but you think 'ok, well, it's winning football'

I think there needed to be a bit of a course correction from Sven's 'inmates running the asylum' style but Capello was a bit too far in the other direction. The players clearly baulked against it, I don't think he'd earned the ability to put these things in place to quite such a dramatic level, imo

[Rob1981]

I think Capello showed why good club managers don’t usually make good international managers and vice versa. Felt like the players could cope with him in small doses, all through qualifying he didn’t really seem to put a foot wrong.

But then it came to the World Cup itself and suddenly they were couped up with him for weeks on end. Made them stay in a hotel in the desert miles from anywhere iirc, would only let them speak to their wives and kids on certain days or something as well. And didn’t even make the effort to learn English ffs, even though he’d been in the job for nearly two years at that point. So all through training he’s still talking to them through interpreters.

Plus he went genuinely a bit mad tactically, started trying to recall Scholes and Jamie Carragher with a fortnight to go even though we had won every game virtually in the qualifying. Not sure what message that sends out to the lads that have got us there.

I mean the players have still got to take some responsibility as well I guess, but you don’t get anywhere at a WC without a happy squad. And it’s on the manager to get the culture right. 

Plenty of big sides have come unstuck because they were arguing between themselves off the pitch or because top players didn’t respect the coach. Likewise mediocre sides have overperformed time and again because the team spirit is there.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Rob1981

[skybluedave]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/06/englands-plan-to-combat-france-in-world-cup-has-been-two-years-in-making?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Good to know those 2 years haven't been wasted by whoever was doing it

[Weezer]

 

[Baptista_8]

On 07/12/2022 at 08:35, Rob1981 said:

I think Capello showed why good club managers don’t usually make good international managers and vice versa. Felt like the players could cope with him in small doses, all through qualifying he didn’t really seem to put a foot wrong.

But then it came to the World Cup itself and suddenly they were couped up with him for weeks on end. Made them stay in a hotel in the desert miles from anywhere iirc, would only let them speak to their wives and kids on certain days or something as well. And didn’t even make the effort to learn English ffs, even though he’d been in the job for nearly two years at that point. So all through training he’s still talking to them through interpreters.

Plus he went genuinely a bit mad tactically, started trying to recall Scholes and Jamie Carragher with a fortnight to go even though we had won every game virtually in the qualifying. Not sure what message that sends out to the lads that have got us there.

I mean the players have still got to take some responsibility as well I guess, but you don’t get anywhere at a WC without a happy squad. And it’s on the manager to get the culture right. 

Plenty of big sides have come unstuck because they were arguing between themselves off the pitch or because top players didn’t respect the coach. Likewise mediocre sides have overperformed time and again because the team spirit is there.

But surely if players could only cope with him in small doses, he'd have been even more insufferable in club management?

[Rob1981]

Dunno. Club managers have them all the time but only get a few hours a day instead of concentrated short bursts in an international break. At least the players can go home at night.

Capello ran our 2010 campaign like an army camp, from the minute they arrived for the pre tournament stuff right through to us exiting the tournament probably four or five weeks later. No breaks. No time off. No family contact. Hotel in the middle of nowhere. That amount of time couped up with strict rules and the same people is really suffocating if it’s not enjoyable.

You had players not getting on, players knowing they weren’t going get to play, players not really caring if we went out. Probably some hoping we DID go out if it meant they could get back to their families earlier. Now a bit of time has gone by the players are all laughing about how awful it was.

Like I’ve always said when I’ve defended Gareth, he isn’t a master tactician but I believe he has been our best chance of winning a World Cup mainly because he’s got all the off the pitch stuff right.

Create an environment where everyone enjoys it and everyone feels they have a role or a chance of some game time. Put stuff in place around the camp to manage the downtime. Get them pumped up and playing for each other. The mentality is right, the confidence is there, the ability is there. Then you just need the luck on those 50/50 calls on the pitch.

That’s how teams win tournaments nowadays when international teams are all pretty evenly matched. Not because they are tactically superior to every opponent and can cruise every game. Or because they have a veteran manager with a good CV.

Look around Europe. It’s not just England, more and more international jobs are now going to big name ex-players who get the players respect and nail the right culture. Even if they are relatively young and inexperienced at club level.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Rob1981

[Coulthard's Jaw]

It has to be hard to blot out all of the noise. Maguire cannot live under a rock. Last week he was even ridiculed in the Ghanaian parliament when an MP denigrated the vice-president as the “economic Maguire”, accusing him of being a liability.

[Lucas]

1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

It has to be hard to blot out all of the noise. Maguire cannot live under a rock. Last week he was even ridiculed in the Ghanaian parliament when an MP denigrated the vice-president as the “economic Maguire”, accusing him of being a liability.

 

 

 

[Weezer]

He got Munsoned.

[GunmaN1905]

25 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Dunno. Club managers have them all the time but only get a few hours a day instead of concentrated short bursts in an international break. At least the players can go home at night.

Capello ran our 2010 campaign like an army camp, from the minute they arrived for the pre tournament stuff right through to us exiting the tournament probably four or five weeks later. No breaks. No time off. No family contact. Hotel in the middle of nowhere. That amount of time couped up with strict rules and the same people is really suffocating if it’s not enjoyable.

You had players not getting on, players knowing they weren’t going get to play, players not really caring if we went out. Probably some hoping we DID go out if it meant they could get back to their families earlier. Now a bit of time has gone by the players are all laughing about how awful it was.

Like I’ve always said when I’ve defended Gareth, he isn’t a master tactician but I believe he has been our best chance of winning a World Cup mainly because he’s got all the off the pitch stuff right.

Create an environment where everyone enjoys it and everyone feels they have a role or a chance of some game time. Put stuff in place around the camp to manage the downtime. Get them pumped up and playing for each other. The mentality is right, the confidence is there, the ability is there. Then you just need the luck on those 50/50 calls on the pitch.

That’s how teams win tournaments nowadays when international teams are all pretty evenly matched. Not because they are tactically superior to every opponent and can cruise every game. Or because they have a veteran manager with a good CV.

Look around Europe. It’s not just England, more and more international jobs are now going to big name ex-players who get the players respect and nail the right culture. Even if they are relatively young and inexperienced at club level.

Capello was always in an unwinnable situation.

You can't create a united squad from players already mostly in their late 20s or early 30s when there's a career-long hatred between a lot of them.

His only mistake was not kicking a few of them out. But then he would've faced a massive outrage from the public.

A team like that needed an army camp, but it wasn't enough. No time off and family contact? It's a month of hard work with biggest trophy in football being the prize. If you can't focus on that, then you shouldn't be on the team.

Southgate created a great atmosphere, but it was a completely different situation. Older players weren't stars and were happy to just be a part of NT. Younger players bonded together better because days of bitter football rivalries are long gone.

[Adamm90]

Kalvin Phillips is on pre-match press duty. A sign he's going to start on Saturday?