NOT SOUTHGATE'S LAST HURRAH: The England 2022 campaign

[Rob1981]

Right lads.  Better get this started. 

Squad is named tomorrow. 

 

WORLD CUP HISTORY

1930   -
1934   -
1938   -
1950   Group Stage
1954   Quarter Finals
1958   Group Stage
1962   Quarter Finals
1966   Winners
1970   Quarter Finals
1974   -
1978   -
1982   Second Phase
1986   Quarter Finals
1990   Semi Finals
1994   -
1998   Round of 16
2002   Quarter Finals
2006   Quarter Finals
2010   Round of 16
2014   Group Stage
2018   Semi Finals

ROAD TO QATAR

25/03/2021   5-0 v San Marino (H)
28/03/2021   2-0 v Albania (A)
31/03/2021   2-1 v Poland (H)
02/09/2021   4-0 v Hungary (A)
05/09/2021   4-0 v Andorra (H)
08/09/2021   1-1 v Poland (A)
09/10/2021   5-0 v Andorra (A)
12/10/2021   1-1 v Hungary (H)
12/11/2021   5-0 v Albania (H)
15/11/2021   10-0 v San Marino (A)

               P    GD   Pts
England       10   +36    26
----------------------------
Poland        10   +19    20
----------------------------
Albania       10     0    18
Hungary       10    +6    17
Andorra       10   -16     6
San Marino    10   -45     0   

WORLD CUP HEROES

                   Games   Gls 
Peter Shilton         17     0
Terry Butcher         14     0
Bobby Charlton        14     4
Ashley Cole           14     0
Bobby Moore           14     0
David Beckham         13     3
Michael Owen          12     4
Steven Gerrard        12     3
Gary Lineker          12    10
Wayne Rooney          11     1
Chris Waddle          11     0
Billy Wright          10     0
Frank Lampard         10     0
Sol Campbell          10     1
Rio Ferdinand         10     1
Ray Wilson            10     0
David Seaman           9     0
Emile Heskey           9     1
Gordon Banks           9     0
John Terry             9     0
Kenny Sansom           9     0
Martin Peters          9     2
Paul Scholes           9     1
Peter Beardsley        9     1
Raheem Sterling        9     0
Bryan Robson           8     2
Joe Cole               8     1
Johnny Haynes          8     1
Alan Ball              8     0
Jack Charlton          7     0
Bryan Douglas          7     0
Tom Finney             7     2
Jordan Henderson       7     0
Glenn Hoddle           7     0
Harry Maguire          7     1
Jordan Pickford        7     0
Gary M Stevens         7     0
John Stones            7     2
Des Walker             7     0
Ray Wilkins            7     0
John Barnes            6     0
Jamie Carragher        6     0
George Cohen           6     0
Peter Crouch           6     1
Jimmy Dickinson        6     0
Eric Dier              6     0
Paul Gascoigne         6     0
Owen Hargreaves        6     0
Roger Hunt             6     3
Geoff Hurst            6     5
Glen Johnson           6     0
Harry Kane             6     6
Jesse Lingard          6     1
Paul Parker            6     0
Stuart Pearce          6     0
David Platt            6     3
Marcus Rashford        6     0
Teddy Sheringham       6     0
Trevor Steven          6     0
Nobby Stiles           6     0
Kieran Trippier        6     1
Mark Wright            6     1

Edited December 18, 2022 by Rob1981

[skybluedave]

You'd think taking Phillips or 4 right backs would be silly but try and knock up a 26 man squad. I ran out of ideas on last pick. These international managers never had it so easy. Everyones going

[Smallen]

Just got to continue the trajectory of our last two tournaments and it's ours

[Smallen]

Who's in your 26 man squad? - My World Cup Squad | Transfermarkt

Here's Smallen's:

Squad value of over £1bn. Cue the calls of buying the league 

[GunmaN1905]

6 minutes ago, Smallen said:

Just got to continue the trajectory of our last two tournaments and it's ours

Trajectory of easy draws and sh*thousing it until the first good opponent?

[Barnzy]

This is mine 

[Rob1981]

Gonna be a wildcard choice at left back with Chilwell and Reece James both out. Tyrick Mitchell or Sessegnon or even a sensational recall for Ashley Young.

[skybluedave]

33 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Trajectory of easy draws and sh*thousing it until the first good opponent?

[Haguey]

The biennial few weeks where non Englanders get wound up by us and our songs 

[Robokid87]

3 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Gonna be a wildcard choice at left back with Chilwell and Reece James both out. Tyrick Mitchell or Sessegnon or even a sensational recall for Ashley Young.

Apparently it's just Shaw with Tripper and Saka considered enough cover. Seems very risky to me, not least because those two are my starting right side  

[RodriYouPlonker]

What he will take:

 

What he should take:

We are going out in the group stages, USA and Wales will qualify

France will win the entire thing beating Spain or Croatia in the final

I saw it in a dream

[thomyorkessoul]

19 minutes ago, RodriYouPlonker said:

We are going out in the group stages, USA and Wales will qualify

USA are going to struggle to finish with a single point. England and Wales will both easily qualify. 

[Mahzun_Savas]

I think England are clearly the best side in the group and should qualify first in the group with little problem, 9 points is the most likely outcome.

For England to get to the semi-finals or final I think Harry Kane is probably going to have to score quite a few goals and be in contention for the Golden Boot.

[Constantine]

For all that talent up front, your back line leaves a lot to be desired. Pretty much everyone has shambles written all over them.

[pearcey_90]

Not sure how reliable, but really would love it if Wilson is in there  

[pearcey_90]

Thats mine. Only controversial is Burn, because you’ve got to have a 6ft 6 LB in a squad, and Sancho, who despite not doing good at Man Utd is still a talent and can offer something off the bench.

Basically load up more on the attacking players than the defensive.

[GunmaN1905]

10 hours ago, skybluedave said:

Beating a team that got eliminated by Korea in the previous tournament and finished last in their group?

[skybluedave]

10 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Beating a team that got eliminated by Korea in the previous tournament and finished last in their group?

They probably would have won the Euros if we didn't beat them

[Haguey]

1 hour ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Beating a team that got eliminated by Korea in the previous tournament and finished last in their group?

Didn't we also easily beat the World Cup finalists

[GunmaN1905]

6 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Didn't we also easily beat the World Cup finalists

Group stage, both qualified, doesn't count.

[Haguey]

Tomori not in the squad apparently, madness.

[Tony85]

It will be a national disgrace if Akpom misses out. He's In the form of his career just as the squad predictions suggested he would be. 0.82 goals per 90 mins. 35% shot conversion.

[Adamm90]

11 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Tomori not in the squad apparently, madness.

No Guehi either. Ben White is surely in.

[Smallen]

20 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Tomori not in the squad apparently, madness.

Seems especially mad considering who will be going instead (Maguire, Dier).

[Haguey]

Thankfully Mings seems to be out at least

[Smallen]

I’d take Mings over Maguire/Dier simply for a left footed option. If we play a back 3 it’s horrible watching them all being right footed. Especially when you consider Trippier might play left wing back too 

[Rob1981]

Reckon it will be:
Walker, Shaw, Stones, Maguire, Trippier, Coady, White, TAA, Dier, LB wildcard option

He took 10/26 defenders to Euro 2020, don't see why that would change.

[pearcey_90]

I'm guessing from some of the leaks, it's going to be strong vibes of the Euro squad, keeping the group together. 

Pickford, Ramsdale, Pope,

Walker, TAA, Trippier, White, Stones, Dier, Coady, Maguire, Shaw

Henderson, Rice, Phillps, Mount, Bellingham

Saka, Sterling, Foden, Grealish, Rashford, Kane, 

Then 3 from JWP/Gallagher/Abraham/DCL/Wilson/Watkins/Sessegnon/Sancho (if Southgate takes full 26, I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't).

[Adamm90]

No Toney or Abraham by the looks of it. Wilson deserves a call-up but his injury record is a bit of a worry.

[kopsy101]

Abraham doesn't look like he's had the best start to his season so you'd have to favour Wilson if it came down to it

Maddison surely has to go

[Rob1981]

Sounds like Wilson is in.  These leaks will be pretty solid.  Like we've said at previous tournaments, Southgate will 100% ring round them all with a pesonal phonecall and a pep talk.  So the players will know by now and start briefing their journo mates.

[Smallen]

Wilson is injury prone so it is a risk, but Rashford can play as a striker as well if necessary.

[darren1983]

No Tmori or Toney is shocking call but also fairly typical of Southgate's safety first approach to things. 

[Barry Cartman]

Not that I think Tomori or Tammy deserve a spot in the squad, but this is the clearest indication yet by Southgate to stay in England if you want to have a career with the national side 

[Barry Cartman]

Is it just going to be a day of naming **** players who had no chance of going as not making the squad  

[pearcey_90]

6 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Not that I think Tomori or Tammy deserve a spot in the squad, but this is the clearest indication yet by Southgate to stay in England if you want to have a career with the national side 

And Smalling, who has seemingly been doing well at Roma, in a back 3, where we lack consistent players.

[Rob1981]

Who do Tomori or Smalling go in place of?

Stones and Maguire were never going to get dropped.  Ben White is playing brilliantly and can also cover at RB if Trippier is switched to the left like he was at the Euros.  Conor Coady plays in a back five already and is a massive asset in the dressing room and around the camp based on the stories that came out last year.  Dier has loads more England tournament experience already and can go back into a holding midfield role if something happens to Rice, or if Phillips is going with a question mark over his fitness.

Can't take everybody. 

Don't forget that Southgate himself was an unused CB at at two England tournaments and recalls it as a fairly joyless experience.  You've got more chance of going and playing a part if you can cover different positions and if the manager is going to rotate his teams around a bit.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Rob1981

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Just make Coady an assistant coach or something if you want him in there supplying the bants  

[Barry Cartman]

Tomori has barely been used by Southgate for the past year or so, which makes him the easy one to dismiss because he doesn't play in this country. Both Sancho and Bellingham have barely had a career under Southgate, the only reason Bellingham has been playing recently is because Phillips got injured. Tomori should have been an established player in the squad by now, but because Southgate sticks with English based players, he is now suddenly out because someone playing in the PL has been playing well, whilst he keeps those like Dier and Maguire

The excuse of 'experience' is so overused and its painful how its been used to justify failure for decades  

[GunmaN1905]

6 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Just make Coady an assistant coach or something if you want him in there supplying the bants  

I love Rob and his enthusiasm, but it's like he gets possessed when talking about England's NT and Southgate.

Massive asset in the dressing room.

[Adamm90]

No Ward-Prowse. Phillips must be in the squad.

[Haguey]

Just now, Adamm90 said:

No Ward-Prowse. Phillips must be in the squad.

Gallagher going too apparently.

[Barry Cartman]

Like Dier has consistently proven to be a liability in knockout football, why would you keep picking him because of experience  

[Smallen]

Glad no Ward-Prowse. Terrible player.

[Rob1981]

1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said:

The excuse of 'experience' is so overused and its painful how its been used to justify failure for decades  

Hardly "failure" when we've just had our two most successful tournaments for a generation.

There's a big difference between shoehorning big name players into the same side because you are in awe of them and you are scared of the media reaction if they are dropped (Eriksson).  Versus sticking with players because they have done a job for you in the past and you value the understanding they have with their international teammates.

But it's a stupid accusation anyway.  Look at the Euros last year.  You had Grealish, Phillips, Saka, Bellingham, Reece James, Foden etc. all playing a massive role.  Not one of them had more than 6-8 caps going into the tournament.  You can say Southgate is risk averse with his tactics but he is hardly unwilling to give inexperienced players a go.

[GunmaN1905]

2 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

Hardly "failure" when we've just had our two most successful tournaments for a generation.

Honestly, aren't you tired of pushing this narrative? All of your success was based on getting lucky penalties and moments of individual brilliance while playing like you're some huge underdogs.

Southgate's cowardice is literally the only reason you don't have an EURO trophy in the cabinet and WC final appearance. The only reason.

He's wasting a great generation with his inability to coach.

He'll get maybe one EPL job after NT, which will be enough for everyone to realize he's not good enough for top level.

Edited November 10, 2022 by GunmaN1905

[Haguey]

It's weird how England go deep into two tournaments in a row and are the only team that have ever done so through luck.

[Tony85]

10 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Honestly, aren't you tired of pushing this narrative? All of your success was based on getting lucky penalties and moments of individual brilliance while playing like you're some huge underdogs.

Southgate's cowardice is literally the only reason you don't have an EURO trophy in the cabinet and WC final appearance. The only reason.

He's wasting a great generation with his inability to coach.

He'll get maybe one EPL job after NT, which will be enough for everyone to realize he's not good enough for top level.

Everyone knows he's not good enough for the top level. The question is whether his man-management and being able to bring the players together and get results as a team has been worth his lack of tactical nous. So far he's just about deserved to remain although this wlll probably be his last tournament. It's OK sayng he should go but it's not like international football is full of great managers. And I'd be more worried with who the replacement might be when most top level managers wouldn't be interested in the job at this stage of their career.

And Tomori probably ****ed himself over with his two displays against Chelsea. Probably two matches that he paid more attention to then the rest of his season. As for Toney - if the betting thing looks bad - Southgate might be under pressure to leave him out within the FA.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Tony85

[The_jagster]

I'm sure I heard an Italian football correspondent say Tomori hasn't been as good this season. How many people calling for him to be included can honestly say how good he's been?

Bellingham is different because he's clearly great

[darren1983]

6 minutes ago, Tony85 said:

As for Toney - if the betting thing looks bad - Southgate might be under pressure to leave him out within the FA.

The investigation, by the FA, has been going on for 15 months and in that time he got called up, bit odd if thats the reason he misses out. Easy excuse though.