NOT SOUTHGATE'S LAST HURRAH: The England 2022 campaign

[skybluedave]

Are any of these centre backs left footed?

[Baptista_8]

1 hour ago, The_jagster said:

I don't think a manager who has a reputation for managing teams that struggle to score is what England need in the case of Potter

You'd think he would be great at getting the best out of our technical, creative players. And he'd have Harry Kane.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Baptista_8

[Pukey]

3 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12771474/england-did-not-have-a-good-world-cup-and-any-manager-could-have-matched-gareth-southgates-results-says-jamie-redknapp

Finally someone in the media has called him out.

I'm absolutely sure if his mate Lampard got to the quarters and lost narrowly to France he'd write a critical article. 

[pearcey_90]

26 minutes ago, Robokid87 said:

Yeah much as I love Tomori he was rubbish against us at the Bridge and then sent off (if harshly) early at the San Siro, I think it's fair enough for Southgate not to change his mind based on that alone and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets jumped by at least Marc Guehi too. That being said I'd be much more surprised if it's not Stones and Maguire still come March.

I would be. Fair chance Maguire probably starts like 1 or 2 games by then if all the CBs for Man Utd are fit  

Tomori is one defender we should be trying out in more games, especially if he's playing regularly for Milan in various big games. Easy to forget too that Maguire was having some poor games for England coming into the World Cup, so we have to looking longer term.

[GunmaN1905]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

Is Tomori elite? From what I’ve seen Serie A is the equivalent of the Championship these days, I’m not changing my long standing defence because Tomori has had a handful of good performances in a farmers league.

I know you're doing the usual bait, but it's funny how a bunch of Serie A deadwood is currently dominating in EPL.

[Baptista_8]

Is the stat that Southgate has managed us 24 times against top 10 ranked sides, and won only four games correct?

Edited December 21, 2022 by Baptista_8

[skybluedave]

Maybe. We beat Spain, Belguim and I'm guessing 2 wins against Croatia were when they were in top 10. But not sure they were. Germany weren't ranked top 10 when we beat them. Doubt Denmark were. 

Tbh I can't think of many games. 24 seems a lot but I can't remember friendlies. First Nations League we exchanged wins with Spain. Beat and drew with Croatia. Then lost to Holland in semi final.  2nd Nations League we lost to Hungary twice and Italy once. Drew twice with Germany. 

Hang on. We've had 3 Nations League campaigns  Other one we exchanged wins with Belgium, lost to Denmark twice I think. And then 4 points from Iceland. Not sure if Denmark were top 10 then

Edited December 21, 2022 by skybluedave

[themadsheep2001]

Tomori is right footed and worse on the ball than Maguire. He wasn't replacing him before the world cup

[Rob1981]

Teams in the current Top 10, we are P19, W4, D6, L9.  Maybe 24 comes from teams being in the top 10 at the point that we played them, but cba to work this out.

[skybluedave]

2 of those loses to Belgium don't count either 

[Rob1981]

I'm not sure half of it should count tbh

Should be judging him on the progress he's made and the evolution of the squad.  Not sure him losing a 2016-17 friendly with inherited players like Phil Jones and Adam Lallana and Jake Livermore is the gotcha people think it is.

[skybluedave]

I wonder if the Swiss were in the top 10 at one of the points we beat them. Feel they jumped quite at one point

[Smallen]

I’ve said it before but we desperately need a left footed centre back if we are going to continue building from the back.

Maguire had a good world cup and did what he could with the ball, but him having to work the ball onto his left is a big problem and slows us down a lot.

Unfortunately Dan Burn and Tyrone Mings (who has mostly been good for England in his defence) are the best current options  

[Rob1981]

1 hour ago, Baptista_8 said:

Is the stat that Southgate has managed us 24 times against top 10 ranked sides, and won only four games correct?

FACT CHECK

This stat is not true.  Repeat, not true.  Such is my devotion to Gareth that I've found a site with all the historic FIFA rankings on it, and married this up against all our match dates.

Games against Top 10 (Top 10 at the time we played them) = 20
Wins = 5
Draws = 7
Losses = 8

Losses include the dead rubber group game against Belgium and the third place playoff, also Nations League games when we were rotating players.  Wins came against Switzerland (2018 friendly), Spain & Croatia (Nations League), Belgium (Nations League), Denmark (Euros).  But excludes the wins against Croatia and Germany at Euro 2020 because they were just outside the top 10 at the time.

And want to talk about PROGRESS?

Up to and including WC 2018 our Top 10 success rate was:
P7, W0, D3, L4

Post WC2018 it is:
P13, W5, D4, L4

Same. Old. Southgate.

[enigmatic]

12 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

FACT CHECK

This stat is not true.  Repeat, not true.  Such is my devotion to Gareth that I've found a site with all the historic FIFA rankings on it, and married this up against all our match dates.

Games against Top 10 (Top 10 at the time we played them) = 20
Wins = 5
Draws = 7
Losses = 8

Losses include the dead rubber group game against Belgium and the third place playoff, also Nations League games when we were rotating players.  Wins came against Switzerland (2018 friendly), Spain & Croatia (Nations League), Belgium (Nations League), Denmark (Euros).  But excludes the wins against Croatia and Germany at Euro 2020 because they were just outside the top 10 at the time.

And want to talk about PROGRESS?

Up to and including WC 2018 our Top 10 success rate was:
P7, W0, D3, L4

Post WC2018 it is:
P13, W5, D4, L4

Same. Old. Southgate.

I'm imagining you doing an Adebayor-style knee slide after finishing this post  

(good statting though)

 

49 minutes ago, Smallen said:

I’ve said it before but we desperately need a left footed centre back if we are going to continue building from the back.

Maguire had a good world cup and did what he could with the ball, but him having to work the ball onto his left is a big problem and slows us down a lot.

Unfortunately Dan Burn and Tyrone Mings (who has mostly been good for England in his defence) are the best current options  

Think the importance of left footed centre backs is vastly overrated tbh. Don't think building from the back needs the left sided centre half to be able to play a long ball down the touchline to the nearside winger which is the only passing lane not being left-footed consistently shuts off (everything else depends on which way you're facing and where the opponents are). Would much rather have someone that can move and turn on the ball well (and actually defend!) than someone primarily left footed. Maguire is slow on the ball regardless of which side of the defence he's standing on

 

 

 

[Smallen]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

Think the importance of left footed centre backs is vastly overrated tbh. Don't think building from the back needs the left sided centre half to be able to play a long ball down the touchline to the nearside winger which is the only passing lane not being left-footed consistently shuts off (everything else depends on which way you're facing and where the opponents are). Would much rather have someone that can move and turn on the ball well (and actually defend!) than someone primarily left footed. Maguire is slow on the ball regardless of which side of the defence he's standing on

It's less when they have the ball/passing angles and more when they don't have the ball that's the problem imo. Maguire has to position himself deeper when Stones has the ball so that he has time to receive the ball across his body and work it onto his right. I noticed it every game in the tournament. Stones doesn't have the same problem at all. I appreciate that Stones is an elite ball player and Maguire is not, but still... I think a left footer helps. 

[GunmaN1905]

4 minutes ago, Smallen said:

It's less when they have the ball/passing angles and more when they don't have the ball that's the problem imo. Maguire has to position himself deeper when Stones has the ball so that he has time to receive the ball across his body and work it onto his right. I noticed it every game in the tournament. Stones doesn't have the same problem at all. I appreciate that Stones is an elite ball player and Maguire is not, but still... I think a left footer helps. 

What if...*drumroll*...Stones played as the left CB, with someone who has pace at right CB, so he can cover for James or TAA better?

[enigmatic]

32 minutes ago, Smallen said:

It's less when they have the ball/passing angles and more when they don't have the ball that's the problem imo. Maguire has to position himself deeper when Stones has the ball so that he has time to receive the ball across his body and work it onto his right. I noticed it every game in the tournament. Stones doesn't have the same problem at all. I appreciate that Stones is an elite ball player and Maguire is not, but still... I think a left footer helps. 

Think Maguire plays deeper mostly because he's slower and likes to take his time on the ball. He dawdles on his preferred side too. When he was actually in form, his ability to slow the tempo down and pick a pass was actually useful. When he wasn't... the less said the better. If he's standing even deeper now it might well be a sensible coaching move to give him extra time rather than because of where he stands.

[skybluedave]

3 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

FACT CHECK

This stat is not true.  Repeat, not true.  Such is my devotion to Gareth that I've found a site with all the historic FIFA rankings on it, and married this up against all our match dates.

Games against Top 10 (Top 10 at the time we played them) = 20
Wins = 5
Draws = 7
Losses = 8

Losses include the dead rubber group game against Belgium and the third place playoff, also Nations League games when we were rotating players.  Wins came against Switzerland (2018 friendly), Spain & Croatia (Nations League), Belgium (Nations League), Denmark (Euros).  But excludes the wins against Croatia and Germany at Euro 2020 because they were just outside the top 10 at the time.

And want to talk about PROGRESS?

Up to and including WC 2018 our Top 10 success rate was:
P7, W0, D3, L4

Post WC2018 it is:
P13, W5, D4, L4

Same. Old. Southgate.

Come on. I basically said all this without any fact checking a few posts earlier. Even mentioned the Swiss. I want my England Superfan certificate 

[JD nawrat]

7 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said:

What if...*drumroll*...Stones played as the left CB, with someone who has pace at right CB, so he can cover for James or TAA better?

Stones has never played on the left side of defence. It might just be coincidence, i don't know/can't say for sure, but he's always been our RCB. Kompany/Laporte/Dias/Otamendi have played LCB when Stones has featured. That might be tactical thanks to Pep who likes Stones' passing range and ability to drive into the channels and play the ball down the line, which would be more difficult for a right footer at LCB, but also perhaps it is because Stones himself just isn't good/comfortable at LCB. I honestly don't know. But there must be a reason he doesn't ever play LCB. Even at Everton, i don't recall Stones ever playing on the left side. 

[aggressive minor]

15 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

FACT CHECK

This stat is not true.  Repeat, not true.  Such is my devotion to Gareth that I've found a site with all the historic FIFA rankings on it, and married this up against all our match dates.

Games against Top 10 (Top 10 at the time we played them) = 20
Wins = 5
Draws = 7
Losses = 8

Losses include the dead rubber group game against Belgium and the third place playoff, also Nations League games when we were rotating players.  Wins came against Switzerland (2018 friendly), Spain & Croatia (Nations League), Belgium (Nations League), Denmark (Euros).  But excludes the wins against Croatia and Germany at Euro 2020 because they were just outside the top 10 at the time.

And want to talk about PROGRESS?

Up to and including WC 2018 our Top 10 success rate was:
P7, W0, D3, L4

Post WC2018 it is:
P13, W5, D4, L4

Same. Old. Southgate.

Our pool of players is significantly better now than it was leading up to 2018, which abound be taken into consideration.