NOT SOUTHGATE'S LAST HURRAH: The England 2022 campaign

[craigcwwe]

1 hour ago, Constantine said:

Well, you're yet to face a proper team in the knockouts. You've had ridiculous streak of luck in draws in last few years...

Germany. 

[WillHoward42]

2 hours ago, Peter G said:

Are we allowed to celebrate last nights win?

"It's only Iran"

"It's only Wales"

I expect that to become "it's only Senegal"

Celebrate all you want.

It was only Wales and Iran though.

[WillHoward42]

12 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

Germany. 

I think this win was more a mental thing than anything else.

That German team were not good and spurned a few chances themselves.

But it was still a huge win for England.

[Peter G]

1 hour ago, GunmaN1905 said:

How many players from other 3 teams in the group would've even made England 26 player list?

So we can only celebrate and be happy when we beat good enough teams?

We've seen a lot of shocks at this WC. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Peter G

[Mahzun_Savas]

You should celebrate the wins no matter who the opposition.

Senegal are not great, pretty average I think. 

I watched the game against Qatar and they were terrible, especially in the second half. The attack that lead to Qatar's goal saw them not defend at all. The ball went wide right to a completely unmarked player who ran forward and put in a cross under no pressure at all. The cross went to a totally unmarked player in the box who headed home.

They did play a lot better than that against Ecuador, but you guys should defeat them easily by multiple goals.

[Rob1981]

42 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

If we beat France, and it's a well deserved victory, he'd get plenty of praise for it.

No way, people are too far gone   It would only be because it was a terrible scrappy game, or because France were over-rated beforehand, or because we only managed to score with a penalty and were hopeless from open play, or because Mbappe missed that chance, or because Phillips was lucky not to be sent off, or because Sterling got that soft penalty.

Bit like Colombia and Germany and Denmark and basically every other fully deserved victory.

[HoChiKim]

I'm delighted we face Senegal from Group A.

Qatar were never an option to progress so from the other three we have got the best option for us I feel and I think we'd have struggled against Ecuador whereas I fully expect us to beat Senegal in 90 minutes.

Looking ahead France will be difficult but (on paper) that is the only major obstacle between us and the final as the other side's who should be on our half of the draw aren't as good as us (again on paper), hopefully Argentina draw with Poland and face France next and that match goes all the way to penalties.and fatigues whoever we face, here's hoping haha.

[Baptista_8]

I like possession football, so I rarely (never) agree with how Gareth sets us up. Foden and Grealish would be the two of the first names on the team sheet every game for me. They're our two players most comfortable in possession.

However, my main gripe with him is how much he ********* people to try and justify his selections.

[pearcey_90]

3 hours ago, Pukey said:

I think that's going way overboard. I'm not gonna say it was good but we were incredibly in control and looked like we were more than happy to pick our moments, which given we weren't desperate for a win was at least understandable. It was a million miles better than anything against the USA.

It seemed we were playing like we knew 1 goal would basically do the job and we didn't need to go gung ho for it. It definitely could have been better in first half but it really wasn't "dreadful." Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if we got to around 70 minutes at 0-0 as I think it was important to get a victory, but yeah it was a game of patience yesterday that we played absolutely fine. We knew Wales would have to come at us at some point and gaps would appear, so there was no need to be sending loads forward and leaving gaps and potentially getting caught. 

Wales didn’t even engage first half  Of course we looked good, stones/Maguire knocking it between themselves loads. Our chances came from us losing the ball in the Wales third, then Wales stringing a pass or two before our counter press won the ball and there was a gap.

We did nothing to trouble them and against better opposition like we saw with USA, they press and control the ball as they know the danger isn’t there. 

The changes at HT and likely rocket from Southgate worked, but 50% of this group game time has been a concern in terms of same things we’ve seen over the years. 

[Mahzun_Savas]

France are an exceptionally strong team, anyone who beats them should get massive credit for doing so.

I don't think you guys are all that far behind France so you have a decent chance of beating them but I would make France a small favourite.

[Lucas]

Quietly optimistic at the moment, considering Kane isn't firing yet. 

Was a bit worried that we didn't just start Wilson against Wales, as well as some of the other fringe players in the squad. 

I worry what would happen if Stones, Rice or Kane had to miss a game or come off early in one of these KO rounds.

We can definitely beat the rest of the teams on our day in the competition, won't start dreaming until my birthday though  (Quarter Finals).

[Barry Cartman]

Kane has the most assists at the World Cup so far

[m_fenton]

1 hour ago, pearcey_90 said:

Wales didn’t even engage first half  Of course we looked good, stones/Maguire knocking it between themselves loads. Our chances came from us losing the ball in the Wales third, then Wales stringing a pass or two before our counter press won the ball and there was a gap.

We did nothing to trouble them and against better opposition like we saw with USA, they press and control the ball as they know the danger isn’t there. 

The changes at HT and likely rocket from Southgate worked, but 50% of this group game time has been a concern in terms of same things we’ve seen over the years. 

You think Southgate gave them a rocket for comfortably controlling 45 minutes of a game we didn't even need to win?  I'd guess he gave a few words of encouragement and some calm tactical pointers, rather than going full Mike Basset on them.

[JD nawrat]

2 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

No way, people are too far gone   It would only be because it was a terrible scrappy game, or because France were over-rated beforehand, or because we only managed to score with a penalty and were hopeless from open play, or because Mbappe missed that chance, or because Phillips was lucky not to be sent off, or because Sterling got that soft penalty.

Bit like Colombia and Germany and Denmark and basically every other fully deserved victory.

You have a remarkable victim complex

Shocked you didn't include Sweden in there tbh. None of these teams are on the same level as reigning World Champions, France. If you beat France (if you even play France..), people will applaud that. 

[Pukey]

1 hour ago, pearcey_90 said:

Wales didn’t even engage first half  Of course we looked good, stones/Maguire knocking it between themselves loads. Our chances came from us losing the ball in the Wales third, then Wales stringing a pass or two before our counter press won the ball and there was a gap.

We did nothing to trouble them and against better opposition like we saw with USA, they press and control the ball as they know the danger isn’t there. 

The changes at HT and likely rocket from Southgate worked, but 50% of this group game time has been a concern in terms of same things we’ve seen over the years. 

I didn't even say we were good/looked good, just we looked very comfortable. Yeah we didn't create loads of chances but we had absolutely no reason to be throwing players forward and taking risks, we knew chances would come if we were patient. It was at worst a bit meh (and at best, fine), my main point is calling it "dreadful" is a massive overreaction. Against a team that absolutely needed to win that's also a huge rival we limited them to literally nothing and completely controlled the game, while having a couple of chances (and one big chance with Rashford 1 on 1.)

Like, it wasn't thrill a minute or anything but we were very comfortable and clearly had another gear to move into, likely waiting for Wales to start taking more risks (and look what happened once we got the first.) Absolutely guarantee every manager at this world cup, in the exact situation we were in in terms of what result we needed, playing a rival etc etc, would at absolute worst tolerate that first half. 

[skybluedave]

Would have been a great goal if Foden finished that chance in first half. The one with all the quick one touch passes.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

****, must be something serious

[Rob1981]

Grim.  I did notice he wasn't named among the subs last night.

[Mr Adam]

I hope it’s something “minor” like home sickness than health related. Not belittling mental health of course 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

28 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

I hope it’s something “minor” like home sickness than health related. Not belittling mental health of course 

White doesn't really like football, has said in interviews he never watches it, would much rather do something else, might mean he has a lower threshold for sacking it off compared to other players.

[Smallen]

pointless speculating, innit. Hope he’s ok.

[Lucas]

2 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

White doesn't really like football, has said in interviews he never watches it, would much rather do something else, might mean he has a lower threshold for sacking it off compared to other players.

I don't know about speculating about his tolerance, but the point about him not either liking football or not watching it is probably not that uncommon generally among football players. 

Anyway, I hope too he is okay.

[PMLF]

25 minutes ago, Lucas said:

I don't know about speculating about his tolerance, but the point about him not either liking football or not watching it is probably not that uncommon generally among football players. 

Anyway, I hope too he is okay.

I am sure it’s common, Romário here allegedly never liked to watch football, for instance.

It’s a waste of time to speculate White’s reasons to leave the squad.

[Heartwork]

[Synthahols_for_Girls]

5 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

****, must be something serious

Could be a number of reasons, 
But as you say it's something serious enough to him that he's felt he has to leave the world cup to handle 

All the rest of us can do is wish him well and hope whatever it is is sorted in a good way 

[RTHerringbone]

 

 

[adhikapp]

On 30/11/2022 at 17:38, GunmaN1905 said:

How many players from other 3 teams in the group would've even made England 26 player list?

Ooh I like this question and I don't see anyone try to answer this rhetorical answer so I'll give it a go.

First up, since England's 26 man squad is lacking a left-back, so I'd have USA's Antonee Robinson in for Conor Coady. 1/26
Then, England's midfield options aren't the best because they're either out of form, or not fully fit. I'd take all of McKennie, Adams, and Musah (the latter was an England youth player) over Phillips, Gallagher, and Henderson. 4/26
Also, while I do rate Callum Wilson, Iran's Mehdi Taremi has been very prolific for Porto, and has scored a few in the Champions League. They're both the same age too, so that won't be an issue. So I'd have Taremi over Wilson on this one. 5/26
In terms of squad depth and versatility, I'd want Ben Davies in my squad. Someone who could play LB, LCB, and LWB. He'll probably be in my squad for Ben White. While very good and very inform, he plays in a position where England have other better options for (RB, RCB). 6/26

Probably would've tried to squeeze in Aaron Ramsey & Gareth Bale but they're way passed it and wouldn't have been picked even if they were English. Weah, Pulisic, and Reyna might have a shout, but England's got one of the best forward options in the tournament.

So those are my answers. At the very least 6 players from the 3 teams could make the England squad, but there is possibility for that number to be bigger.

I don't know what the point of that was, but it was fun to work out anyways.

[Smallen]

I would say none of those get near the England squad tbh. 

[Weezer]

I’d take McKennie over Gallagher at a push.

[Pukey]

Not just bias saying this, but Adams could get in as a squad option in the right circumstances. 

[enigmatic]

I see the case for a left back with Chilwell out (but we're definitely not taking both Robinson and Davies)

Think there's a space for a keeper too, since Pope's not great with his feet and we do play with a sweeper keeper. How's Turner's distribution?

 

[Rob1981]

There are better left backs in England and we didn't pick them

[Barry Cartman]

Foden on BBC earlier saying he thinks he's a no.10 behind the striker, no doubt a message to Gareth

[Rob1981]

27 years since we last played an international in the month of December.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Has any team news leaked yet?

[Rob1981]

Foden and Rashford keeping their places apparently. Dunno if that means we are unchanged, I doubt it. I would be surprised if he doesn’t put Sterling back in when Sterling has played so many big tournament games.

But then you have to move Foden into the middle even though Gareth has been saying he doesn’t play there. Or whatever it was he said.

But you could bring Sterling back in as well, drop Henderson back out. Go Sterling-Foden-Rashford with Rice and Bellingham behind.

[Smallen]

Every other tournament I’ve been able to make a case for Sterling to play and he usually doesn’t let us down, but I don’t think he should play this year. He’s been really poor.

[pearcey_90]

8 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Has any team news leaked yet?

Saka starting. So if it’s same set up, could be for Foden and Rashford LW. When in reality it should be Foden LW (and Saka RW). 

I would like Mount back in over Henderson for a higher press this game. Don’t allow Senegal to grow into the game at all.

Edited December 4, 2022 by pearcey_90

[Gizzy]

Fully expect him to go back to the team that played the first two matches. 
 

The Wales game was just rotation and get the feeling he will change back regardless of who played well. 
 

Saka over Rashford or Foden is jokes

[Weezer]

Saka was good in the first game but awful against the US, feels harsh if he’s dropping Foden or Rashford to get him back into the starting XI.

Bringing Sterling back in would be even worse though.

[Rob1981]

Matchday!

Quick reminder this is Southgate’s ninth tournament knockout game. Where the nine previous knockout games spanned 18 years and six different managers.

[skybluedave]

Was just thinking that. He's won 5 knockouts. Today would be 6th if succesful. We must be in territory of he's won more knockout games then every previous English manager combined 

[Bliss Seeker]

1 minute ago, Rob1981 said:

Matchday!

Quick reminder this is Southgate’s ninth tournament knockout game. Where the nine previous knockout games spanned 18 years and six different managers.

#southgate out, he's useless 

If that team rumour is true then a tad harsh on either Saka and Sterling to miss out, but Foden needs to play and Rashford is in the form of his life so not too bothered. 

Expect them to play some part of the game either way.

More interested to see if he sticks with Hendo or brings in Phillips or Mount. Would go for Phillips to add some physical presence in the centre if he was fully fit.

[Rob1981]

32 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Was just thinking that. He's won 5 knockouts. Today would be 6th if succesful. We must be in territory of he's won more knockout games then every previous English manager combined 

Off the top of my head

Winterbottom didn’t win any

Ramsey won 3 (66 QF. SF, Final)

Robson won 3 (R16 in 86, R16 and QF In 90)

Venables won 1 (96 QF)

Eriksson won 2 (2002 R16 and 2006 R16)

Surely there have been more than that?   Nine wins in 66 years between 1950 and 2016?  Christ alive.

Suppose they didn’t have R16 in the old days though. And the old Euros were small and hard to qualify for. And the 82 World Cup had two group stages. But it’s still an awful record for a so-called big team.

EDIT: When I remembered we actually won the World Cup 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Rob1981

[skybluedave]

Think you'll Ramsey won 3 

[Rob1981]

14 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Think you'll Ramsey won 3 

Oh yeah  

Knew I must be missing something

[skybluedave]

Southgate would have to win WC to beat everyone else combined then. So not super likely. 

It's that 90's/00's record that is really bad. Especially as it wasn't like we didn't have decent players. Euro2000 was a bad tournament but now I look back at that team and think it was pretty good.

Seaman, G Neville, Adams, Campbell, P Neville; Beckham, Ince, Scholes, McManaman; Shearer & Owen

[Rob1981]

2002 we had Gary Neville and Gerrard out injured, and Shearer had retired. But 2000 and 2004 and 2006 we should have been right up there.

People going on about all the once-in-a-generation talent Gareth has got to play with. Still don’t think there are many players in the current squad that get into any of those teams.

[The_jagster]

I don't think Eriksson comes out that badly, Brazil and Portugal were good teams, and the only comparable level team we've beaten under Southgate in major tournaments is Germany. It's funny how Germany have failed recently but I still think it's a decent team.

McLaren, Capello and Hodgson was such a waste though, even if a few squads were a bit weak.

[EnterUsernameHere]

4 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

2002 we had Gary Neville and Gerrard out injured, and Shearer had retired. But 2000 and 2004 and 2006 we should have been right up there.

People going on about all the once-in-a-generation talent Gareth has got to play with. Still don’t think there are many players in the current squad that get into any of those teams.

Maybe Kane at a push, but it wouldn't be a criminal decision to leave him out either. The rest, no chance.