fm23 still too many old players in squads in future and not enough youth development

[Teep]

Ya, we were considering going from FM20 to FM23 for our online long-term save, but I'm starting to wonder if we should just hold off until we know more about all these issues (AI, squads, youth, transfers, etc) that seemed to appear in FM22 and are still there

[TheAwesomeGem]

I hope these are just BETA issues that will be ironed out in the release. But part of me doesnt think FM is really aware about these issues.

[rkobets]

well, this almost like it was in FM2022

if they didn't fix that before beta, I do not expect a lot of changes during coming days

[TheAwesomeGem]

13 hours ago, rkobets said:

well, this almost like it was in FM2022

if they didn't fix that before beta, I do not expect a lot of changes during coming days

Looks like @Kyle Brownmentioned they are going to investigate this issue in FM2023 as per 

But it's still not being looked at or investigated. Has SI forgotten about this issue?

[rkobets]

actually this is the reason why long saves are boring  and game is not interesting after some period of time....:( 

 

[CFuller]

I'm sure SI are still looking at it. I hope they are anyway.

I've just reached July 2037 in my holiday save with just the English leagues loaded, and I'll be honest - the early signs are not good. For starters, here is how the England squad looks:

Just three players under the age of 25, and quite a few oldies. Bukayo Saka is still playing well enough to justify his place, but Jude Bellingham is barely clinging on after a modest half-season at a Southampton team who finished 14th last season. Bellingham's now on 151 caps - he's still 37 shy of the record held by Declan Rice, who was still playing for England right up until the Euro 2036 Final aged 37.

It's a bit late in the day, so I'm not going to go into too much detail right now. I'm happy to upload the save file and leave the in-depth research to you guys if you're interested... but I thought I'd give you a sense of just how bad this problem is, particularly at international level.

At the start of FM23, there are 88 active players aged 33 or under who have at least one senior cap for England. I won't list them all, because otherwise we'd be here all night, but here's a list of all the players who made their England debuts before the age of 21:

Quote

PLAYER	CAPS	GOALS	D.O.B.	DEBUT	DEBUT AGE
Theo Walcott	47	8	16/03/1989	30/05/2006	17
Raheem Sterling	77	19	08/12/1994	14/11/2012	17
Jude Bellingham	15	-	29/06/2003	12/11/2020	17
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain	35	7	15/08/1993	26/05/2012	18
Luke Shaw	21	2	12/07/1995	05/03/2014	18
Marcus Rashford	46	12	31/10/1997	27/05/2016	18
Jadon Sancho	23	3	25/03/2000	12/10/2018	18
Callum Hudson-Odoi	3	-	07/11/2000	22/03/2019	18
Phil Jones	27	-	21/02/1992	07/10/2011	19
Jack Butland	9	-	10/03/1993	15/08/2012	19
Ross Barkley	33	6	05/12/1993	06/09/2013	19
Calum Chambers	3	-	20/01/1995	03/09/2014	19
Dele Alli	37	3	11/04/1996	09/10/2015	19
Trent Alexander-Arnold	17	1	07/10/1998	07/06/2018	19
Bukayo Saka	18	4	05/09/2001	08/10/2020	19
Kieran Gibbs	10	-	26/09/1989	11/08/2010	20
Jordan Henderson	69	2	17/06/1990	17/11/2010	20
Danny Welbeck	42	16	26/11/1990	29/03/2011	20
Jack Rodwell	3	-	11/03/1991	12/11/2011	20
Carl Jenkinson	1	-	08/02/1992	14/11/2012	20
Jonjo Shelvey	6	-	27/02/1992	12/10/2012	20
John Stones	58	3	28/05/1994	30/05/2014	20
Joe Gomez	11	-	23/05/1997	10/11/2017	20
Dominic Solanke	1	-	14/09/1997	14/11/2017	20
Tammy Abraham	11	3	02/10/1997	10/11/2017	20
Mason Mount	31	4	10/01/1999	07/09/2019	20
Declan Rice	32	2	14/01/1999	22/03/2019	20
Reece James	13	-	08/12/1999	08/10/2020	20
Phil Foden	16	2	28/05/2000	05/09/2020	20

That's 29 England debutants under the age of 21, all but one of which were within the last 13 years (Walcott being such an extreme case that he made his England debut before some real players in FM23 were even born ). We sure do love to give youth a chance in this country.

Now, let's fast-forward to 2037 and see how things have changed. As of June 2037, here are all the players under the age of 33 - thus being born after the current youngest Three Lions international Jude Bellingham - who have at least ONE cap for England:

Quote

PLAYER	CAPS	GOALS	D.O.B.	DEBUT	DEBUT AGE
Jon Bastable	57	22	31/10/2012	03/09/2032	19
Richard Duncan	81	1	14/03/2010	08/06/2030	20
Sam Binch	49	9	23/02/2008	14/11/2029	21
Michael Wilson	50	25	14/02/2010	12/11/2031	21
Paul Curtis	24	1	18/11/2010	08/10/2032	21
Richard Boucher	4	-	10/10/2012	22/03/2034	21
Sheldon Dafter	9	-	03/02/2014	12/10/2035	21
John Robinson	82	1	17/02/2007	08/09/2029	22
Craig Laycock	2	3	15/07/2007	14/11/2029	22
Caspar Adekoya	51	-	28/10/2008	14/06/2031	22
Luca Carter-Byrne	22	15	28/06/2008	06/09/2031	23
Rob Brain	31	9	04/05/2010	15/06/2033	23
Kevin Griffiths	27	-	05/08/2010	07/10/2033	23
Raheim Hill	8	2	01/02/2007	14/06/2031	24
Matt Cox	9	2	23/04/2009	22/03/2034	24
Stuart Daniels	5	1	10/05/2009	22/03/2034	24
Adam Elletson	25	2	16/08/2008	22/03/2034	25
Jorge Fonseca	4	1	14/06/2009	10/09/2034	25
Sebastian Chan	5	-	28/02/2010	13/06/2035	25
Reuell Walters	1	-	16/12/2004	17/11/2031	26
Jon Newton	8	-	02/05/2007	22/03/2034	26
Jamie Reilly	22	1	01/07/2007	22/03/2034	26
Dane Scarlett	5	2	24/03/2004	17/06/2031	27
Alfie Devine	19	2	01/08/2004	12/11/2031	27
Alfie Dorrington	6	-	20/04/2005	05/06/2032	27
Jon Watkin	4	-	24/06/2007	13/06/2035	27
Liam Bryant	9	1	07/11/2006	21/06/2035	28
Ishé Samuels-Smith	2	-	05/06/2006	04/09/2036	30
Thierry Small	1	-	01/08/2004	21/06/2037	32

That's 29 England debutants, total.

TWO of them made their debuts before they turned 21. It will probably not surprise you that Jon Bastable and Richard Duncan are two of the best players in the world, and perhaps the two best English players. Reputation on Football Manager is so utterly borked that you literally have to be an elite-level wonderkid in order to make your England debut at the same age as Carl Jenkinson! 

To use Bellingham once again, you might have spotted that it took SEVEN YEARS before a player younger than Jude won their first England cap. To put it another way, Jude was 26 years old when he was dethroned as the baby of the England team. That, to me, doesn't feel right at all.

Anyway, here is the link to my save file from July 2037, so you can have a look for yourselves and perhaps compile some more data. Have at it.

[Fond Foat]

Could the game simply not give a weighting to current ability and then a weighting for potential ability when determining selection? Then it would be a matter of tweaking the value of the potential rating weighting to get numbers closer to real life. I don't mean to make something they may be quite difficult sound easy, but if the AI has no ability to develop and select youngsters what's the point of playing past 5 seasons.

[Gunnersmoke]

3 hours ago, CFuller said:

I'm sure SI are still looking at it. I hope they are anyway.

I've just reached July 2037 in my holiday save with just the English leagues loaded, and I'll be honest - the early signs are not good. For starters, here is how the England squad looks:

Just three players under the age of 25, and quite a few oldies. Bukayo Saka is still playing well enough to justify his place, but Jude Bellingham is barely clinging on after a modest half-season at a Southampton team who finished 14th last season. Bellingham's now on 151 caps - he's still 37 shy of the record held by Declan Rice, who was still playing for England right up until the Euro 2036 Final aged 37.

It's a bit late in the day, so I'm not going to go into too much detail right now. I'm happy to upload the save file and leave the in-depth research to you guys if you're interested... but I thought I'd give you a sense of just how bad this problem is, particularly at international level.

At the start of FM23, there are 88 active players aged 33 or under who have at least one senior cap for England. I won't list them all, because otherwise we'd be here all night, but here's a list of all the players who made their England debuts before the age of 21:

That's 29 England debutants under the age of 21, all but one of which were within the last 13 years (Walcott being such an extreme case that he made his England debut before some real players in FM23 were even born ). We sure do love to give youth a chance in this country.

Now, let's fast-forward to 2037 and see how things have changed. As of June 2037, here are all the players under the age of 33 - thus being born after the current youngest Three Lions international Jude Bellingham - who have at least ONE cap for England:

That's 29 England debutants, total.

TWO of them made their debuts before they turned 21. It will probably not surprise you that Jon Bastable and Richard Duncan are two of the best players in the world, and perhaps the two best English players. Reputation on Football Manager is so utterly borked that you literally have to be an elite-level wonderkid in order to make your England debut at the same age as Carl Jenkinson! 

To use Bellingham once again, you might have spotted that it took SEVEN YEARS before a player younger than Jude won their first England cap. To put it another way, Jude was 26 years old when he was dethroned as the baby of the England team. That, to me, doesn't feel right at all.

Anyway, here is the link to my save file from July 2037, so you can have a look for yourselves and perhaps compile some more data. Have at it.

Jesus, honestly this has made me wish I'd held on playing because I'd be refunding right now

[TheAwesomeGem]

5 hours ago, CFuller said:

I'm sure SI are still looking at it. I hope they are anyway.

I've just reached July 2037 in my holiday save with just the English leagues loaded, and I'll be honest - the early signs are not good. For starters, here is how the England squad looks:

Just three players under the age of 25, and quite a few oldies. Bukayo Saka is still playing well enough to justify his place, but Jude Bellingham is barely clinging on after a modest half-season at a Southampton team who finished 14th last season. Bellingham's now on 151 caps - he's still 37 shy of the record held by Declan Rice, who was still playing for England right up until the Euro 2036 Final aged 37.

It's a bit late in the day, so I'm not going to go into too much detail right now. I'm happy to upload the save file and leave the in-depth research to you guys if you're interested... but I thought I'd give you a sense of just how bad this problem is, particularly at international level.

At the start of FM23, there are 88 active players aged 33 or under who have at least one senior cap for England. I won't list them all, because otherwise we'd be here all night, but here's a list of all the players who made their England debuts before the age of 21:

That's 29 England debutants under the age of 21, all but one of which were within the last 13 years (Walcott being such an extreme case that he made his England debut before some real players in FM23 were even born ). We sure do love to give youth a chance in this country.

Now, let's fast-forward to 2037 and see how things have changed. As of June 2037, here are all the players under the age of 33 - thus being born after the current youngest Three Lions international Jude Bellingham - who have at least ONE cap for England:

That's 29 England debutants, total.

TWO of them made their debuts before they turned 21. It will probably not surprise you that Jon Bastable and Richard Duncan are two of the best players in the world, and perhaps the two best English players. Reputation on Football Manager is so utterly borked that you literally have to be an elite-level wonderkid in order to make your England debut at the same age as Carl Jenkinson! 

To use Bellingham once again, you might have spotted that it took SEVEN YEARS before a player younger than Jude won their first England cap. To put it another way, Jude was 26 years old when he was dethroned as the baby of the England team. That, to me, doesn't feel right at all.

Anyway, here is the link to my save file from July 2037, so you can have a look for yourselves and perhaps compile some more data. Have at it.

The game becomes too easy after 2030 because the AI squad is full of 30s with mediocre CA. You can easily win the Premier League 8 times in a row after 2030 if you started with a young high PA team.

[KingCanary]

Really can't believe this hasn't been fixed with a whole year of knowing it was an issue.

Looking forward to another year of the top 50 players in the world list being 80% players in their 30's.

[obasa_G]

4 hours ago, TheAwesomeGem said:

The game becomes too easy after 2030 because the AI squad is full of 30s with mediocre CA. You can easily win the Premier League 8 times in a row after 2030 if you started with a young high PA team.

The change in player development from FM22 could be a reason for this. Before FM22 players more or less met their potential on or before the age of 23. That's why in previous games (before FM22), you could see newgens as the key players of some top clubs after 3-5 years. 

FM22 changed the way development works to stop a majority of the players in the game meeting their potential by the age of 23. This in turn allowed players to be able to develop well into their late 20s. 

Although, from the experiments and simulations run (in FM22 and FM23), a bit of balancing is required. The international managers pick players based on ability first then reputation. I really don't think anything has changed in international management for the last couple of years in FM; the only thing that changed was the development of players.

[tajj7]

You could see this in the last game by doing international management and the media reactions, you'd put some highly rated youngster into the squad and the media would be questioning the call up. Meanwhile they would be clamouring to include 32-33 year olds who just weren't that good. 

Also pretty much any international job I got offered in FM22, so usually 4-5+ years into the game or more, and half the squad is over 30 and there is barely a regen in there. 

Was hoping it was fixed. 

[afailed10]

I really want to buy FM22 but my rational brain can't justify it especially when I won't be able to enjoy long term saves. I'm sticking with FM21 until it's fixed

[priority76]

20 minutes ago, afailed10 said:

I really want to buy FM22 but my rational brain can't justify it especially when I won't be able to enjoy long term saves. I'm sticking with FM21 until it's fixed

Why not skip straight to FM23?

[afailed10]

32 minutos atrás, priority76 disse:

Why not skip straight to FM23?

Yea I meant FM23, but the issue persists from 22

[FelixForte]

Two questions on this.

 

1. Why would AI team building ‘ruin’ the game for you? Just scout and sign young players yourself, develop them and sell them off for profit or play them. That being said, I take your point that realism should be strived for, I just wouldn’t call it a game-breaking bug any more than Morocco winning the 2022 World Cup in my beta save.

 

2. How certain are you that your results are not driven by your game set up? Seeing you’re quite a lot of seasons along, do you have a multi-country multi-league setup? I.e if you don’t load neighbouring countries or lower divisions of your countries of interest, it may affect the loan opportunities of youngsters. Also, which countries are producing regens in your set up? If it’s only England for instance, how realistic is it to expect only English youngsters to fill the boots of wonderkids from across the globe?

[Dotsworthy]

4 hours ago, FelixForte said:

Two questions on this.

 

1. Why would AI team building ‘ruin’ the game for you? Just scout and sign young players yourself, develop them and sell them off for profit or play them. That being said, I take your point that realism should be strived for, I just wouldn’t call it a game-breaking bug any more than Morocco winning the 2022 World Cup in my beta save.

 

2. How certain are you that your results are not driven by your game set up? Seeing you’re quite a lot of seasons along, do you have a multi-country multi-league setup? I.e if you don’t load neighbouring countries or lower divisions of your countries of interest, it may affect the loan opportunities of youngsters. Also, which countries are producing regens in your set up? If it’s only England for instance, how realistic is it to expect only English youngsters to fill the boots of wonderkids from across the globe?

 

1. If the AI over prioritise older players then the argument is that the game becomes easier as teams become stocked with slower aging players.

2. It has been acknowledged by SI.

[Zapoleon]

does suck the joy out of long term saves this.  can't say I am shocked that yet again they have made no effort to try and fix this.

[Zapoleon]

On 26/10/2022 at 21:41, Mcfc1894 said:

This is England national squad just 2 players under the age of 27 and Chelsea only one starting player under the age of 27 this is really immersion breaking for long term saves this was similiar for fm 22 not sure why more hasn't been done to balance this one of the greatest things about fm is seeing wonderkids now all the best singings are only 25 plus 

You should post it in the bug forum for 23. Won't hold my breath but they might actually do something about it, in one of the patches for 23.

[Johnny Ace]

Something of a trend I found in FM22 doing a journeyman save

Whenever I tried loaning in an player from a league or two above, more often than not, the club would want 100% wages plus a fee. A lot of these youngsters are on £5,000 to £20,000 per week contracts. So unless I wanted to bankrupt the club, I could never loan them and give them playing time 

I'd notice over time, these players would just not be loaned out. By the time they're 22, they've barely kicked a ball in competitive football, haven't developed and are pretty much the same player they were at 18 

Then job hopping around, the first team would consist of mainly 30 year old plus players and a few of the fringe players would be 22-25, they've had maybe had a season or two out on loan and a handful of first team appearances and are a long way from their potential 

Scout recommendations would bring me a lot of 30-33 year olds with great potential and average current ability, these would be the victims of stingy AI clubs trying to money grab from the lower league teams   

When the AI would make loan offer to my players, they'd want them for free or paying a small percentage of their wages. More often than not, I'd just loan them to get them game time

The AI should be closer to that, letting youngsters out on loan for cheaper fees, even if it's just a short term loan 

I know this happens in football, I doubt Pep will be loaning out Cole Palmer for peanuts to a L1 club and there are plenty of players in lower league football that made their start at high level clubs. Just at every transfer window during that save I thought, multiple times "The AI's tight, wanting full whack plus more for this kid when I'm offering him first team football" then I'd join clubs with aging first team squads and under developed players

Short version: If these youngsters aren't getting the game time they need, they're not getting much better, they're not building a reputation up enough that they're being given chances in the first team so the AI sticks with the older generation 

[Jonthedon26]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Something of a trend I found in FM22 doing a journeyman save

Whenever I tried loaning in an player from a league or two above, more often than not, the club would want 100% wages plus a fee. A lot of these youngsters are on £5,000 to £20,000 per week contracts. So unless I wanted to bankrupt the club, I could never loan them and give them playing time 

I'd notice over time, these players would just not be loaned out. By the time they're 22, they've barely kicked a ball in competitive football, haven't developed and are pretty much the same player they were at 18 

Then job hopping around, the first team would consist of mainly 30 year old plus players and a few of the fringe players would be 22-25, they've had maybe had a season or two out on loan and a handful of first team appearances and are a long way from their potential 

Scout recommendations would bring me a lot of 30-33 year olds with great potential and average current ability, these would be the victims of stingy AI clubs trying to money grab from the lower league teams   

When the AI would make loan offer to my players, they'd want them for free or paying a small percentage of their wages. More often than not, I'd just loan them to get them game time

The AI should be closer to that, letting youngsters out on loan for cheaper fees, even if it's just a short term loan 

I know this happens in football, I doubt Pep will be loaning out Cole Palmer for peanuts to a L1 club and there are plenty of players in lower league football that made their start at high level clubs. Just at every transfer window during that save I thought, multiple times "The AI's tight, wanting full whack plus more for this kid when I'm offering him first team football" then I'd join clubs with aging first team squads and under developed players

Short version: If these youngsters aren't getting the game time they need, they're not getting much better, they're not building a reputation up enough that they're being given chances in the first team so the AI sticks with the older generation 

This is a very good point! I have always been baffled by the audacity of the AI demanding I pay 100% wages and a loan fee for their players, but then offering 0% wages and £0 fee when they want mine. 

[Dotsworthy]

I noticed the same issue. Ironically, they would still want huge fees to sell these players as they knew these players had high potential, but didn't want to play them or loan them out.

I've raised it in the bug forum. It was raised late into FM22's lifecycle, so they do know this is an issue.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Dotsworthy

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, Dotsworthy said:

I noticed the same issue. Ironically, they would still want huge fees to sell these players as they knew these players had high potential, but didn't want to play them or loan them out.

I've raised it in the bug forum. It was raised late into FM22's lifecycle, so they do know this is an issue.

Whether or not it's part of the problem, I don't know. SI will have the numbers and the amount of youngsters being loaned out might be in line with real life figures. If it is, maybe the players aren't developing or gaining enough reputation for AI managers to trust them in the first team.  If it's not, then yeah, it's potentially part of the reason why younger players are getting over looked. We can only speculate really  

[CFuller]

Yes, that might actually be another part of the problem.

On my Arsenal save on FM22 (where I focussed heavily on developing youth players), I had no problem loaning out PL/Championship-level players for reasonable fees - but those League One/League Two quality players who needed gametime were much more difficult to loan out. I wasn't expecting lower-league clubs to stump up full wages for a loanee, but I struggled to get anyone to pay 50% wages - even for someone who was on £1k a week - and those who were willing to pay that much would typically use them as Squad Players.

Even negotiating a small increase in the wage contribution would go something like this:

"We'd like to take Player X on loan, and we'll pay 10% of his wages."

"Sure, but only if you pay 20%."

"No, 10%. Take it or leave it."

"Come on, it's only an extra hundred quid a week..."

"Ah, forget it."

As far as I can tell, these negotiations are a little better on FM23, but I've only a very small sample size to go on.

[nico_france]

Even if I don't fancy managing a national team

International call-ups are so disappointing most of the times

In one of my test save, for the World Cup in 2022, Deschamps can't do much better than call Ndombele from Naples, who, played 4 games with Naples in total before the list

So disappointing

[fc.cadoni]

1 minute ago, nico_france said:

Even if I don't fancy managing a national team

International call-ups are so disappointing most of the times

In one of my test save, for the World Cup in 2022, Deschamps can't do much better than call Ndombele from Naples, who, played 4 games with Naples in total before the list

So disappointing

What's his reputation? One of the biggest issue regarding national call ups is about youngsters having low reputation - despite having a good CA.

[nico_france]

il y a 16 minutes, fc.cadoni a dit :

What's his reputation? One of the biggest issue regarding national call ups is about youngsters having low reputation - despite having a good CA.

Can't check atm but I assume as a Tottenham player and national French team player, that should be quite high

[Dotsworthy]

SI have responded here.

[bluehefner]

On 26/10/2022 at 22:12, CFuller said:

This was the main thing that put me off a long-term save on FM22. Big teams and nations over-reliant on older players, and hardly bringing any youngsters through other than the odd generational talent. If it's still like this on FM23, then what's the point in playing on beyond the first 5 seasons?

I'm convinced that it's (at least partly) related to player reputations not growing fast enough. On FM22, there were very few high-reputation youngsters in 2030 compared to at the start of the game, but the reduction of high-CA youngsters wasn't quite as bad.

I've not had time to run any tests on FM23, but I fear this might still be a problem.

I agree that it's disappointing, but the game doesn't live or die by this problem.

At some point all that'll be left is regens meaning their more likely to use younger players, certainly younger compared to real life pros that they hang on to until their mid 30s.

As long as the teams remain competitive then does it really matter which players they use?

Edited November 3, 2022 by bluehefner

[Teep]

59 minutes ago, Dotsworthy said:

SI have responded here.

 What I read : we are aware that it's a significant area of the game, we need to review our long term AI strategies, however since we were unable to do so in FM22 and working into FM23, dont get your hopes high for a fix until at least FM24 or 25.

But I'd be glad to be wrong and have a happy surprise on november 8th!

[Overmars]

22 hours ago, FelixForte said:

Why would AI team building ‘ruin’ the game for you? Just scout and sign young players yourself, develop them and sell them off for profit or play them. That being said, I take your point that realism should be strived for, I just wouldn’t call it a game-breaking bug any more than Morocco winning the 2022 World Cup in my beta save.

The game-breaking (slight exaggeration) part for me is that after a few years, I notice that the only young stars developing are ones I have bought or are loaning in myself. If I'm not involved then the rest of the football world seems incapable of doing anything to help youngsters improve. It feels very artificial when looking at it like that, and it breaks immersion.

[CFuller]

After doing some more research and collecting some more data from my English holiday save, I've now submitted a bug report. It's a pretty long post, but there still seem to be major issues with player reputations that I hope SI will look closer at.

 

[rp1966]

29 minutes ago, CFuller said:

After doing some more research and collecting some more data from my English holiday save, I've now submitted a bug report. It's a pretty long post, but there still seem to be major issues with player reputations that I hope SI will look closer at.

 

Thanks for doing such a thorough analysis of the issue. It's very easy to spot the patterns as you play through a longer save (I was massively shocked at the state of the Inter squad I took over in the late 2020s in FM22), but much better to see it so starkly laid out.

The reputation system in FM has always had an assortment of negative effects, but I think what your analysis shows is that at both ends of the age range some recalibration needs to happen. In particular the reputation of the older players needs to decline at some point so that they don't cause all the top clubs to turn into old people's homes and so that they can drift down the league structure, as many do in the late stage of careers IRL.

Edited November 3, 2022 by rp1966

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, rp1966 said:

Thanks for doing such a thorough analysis of the issue. It's very easy to spot the patterns as you play through a longer save (I was massively shocked at the state of the Inter squad I took over in the late 2020s in FM22), but much better to see it so starkly laid out.

The reputation system in FM has always had an assortment of negative effects, but I think what your analysis shows is that at both ends of the age range some recalibration needs to happen. In particular the reputation of the older players needs to decline at some point so that they don't cause all the top clubs to turn into old people's homes and so that they can drift down the league structure, as many do in the late stage of careers IRL.

The question next is will this get patched like it should or do we have to wait for next year when it’s mentioned as a new feature?

[Zapoleon]

Is interesting how they say the beta bug that was affecting player development exaggerated this issue.   I would be curious to see when the game releases if this issue is not so bad. Hopefully someone will do another comparison then.

[silentwars]

Does this issue still happen if you use fake players?

[Cro-cop]

4 hours ago, CFuller said:

After doing some more research and collecting some more data from my English holiday save, I've now submitted a bug report. It's a pretty long post, but there still seem to be major issues with player reputations that I hope SI will look closer at.

 

As someone who thinks this was the biggest issue on FM22, and it seems nothing has been done about it for the latest version, i really appreciate you doing this analysis. Well done

[Neil Brock]

4 hours ago, CFuller said:

After doing some more research and collecting some more data from my English holiday save, I've now submitted a bug report. It's a pretty long post, but there still seem to be major issues with player reputations that I hope SI will look closer at.

 

Thanks for this, has been flagged with the internal team who will combine with our internal analysis. 

[afailed10]

8 horas atrás, Teep disse:

 What I read : we are aware that it's a significant area of the game, we need to review our long term AI strategies, however since we were unable to do so in FM22 and working into FM23, dont get your hopes high for a fix until at least FM24 or 25.

But I'd be glad to be wrong and have a happy surprise on november 8th!

This is way too serious and for many (including me) it's a gamebreaking bug.

So I sincerely hope this is fixed for the full release otherwise I'll have to go back to 21

Edited November 3, 2022 by afailed10

[Teep]

18 minutes ago, afailed10 said:

This is way too serious and for many, including me, it's a gamebreaking bug.

So I sincerely hope this is fixed for the full release so I'll have to go back to 21

100% agree, I hope it will be fixed with release

Edited November 3, 2022 by Teep

[priority76]

1 hour ago, afailed10 said:

So I sincerely hope this is fixed for the full release otherwise I'll have to go back to 21

I really hope so too.  But to abandon all the advances FM23 has made because of this is a bit of an overreaction.

[afailed10]

14 minutos atrás, priority76 disse:

I really hope so too.  But to abandon all the advances FM23 has made because of this is a bit of an overreaction.

How is it an overreaction? unless you play just a few seasons, the world becomes very irrealistic

[TheAwesomeGem]

2 hours ago, afailed10 said:

This is way too serious and for many (including me) it's a gamebreaking bug.

So I sincerely hope this is fixed for the full release otherwise I'll have to go back to 21

Honestly I don't like to overreact that much but I agree if you are a long-term manager, this will definitely break the game. If you play for more than 7 seasons, you will have no competition afterwards as the AI will be playing 40 years old players that tire easily. I am on year 2037 and I have won back to back Premier League and Champions League 6 times with West Ham. Before that I was a midtable team. Ruins my immersion.

[rigton70]

its a shame i am reading this thread.

i was going to buy the new game ( after many years away of playing) for a long time save to get me back in to playing the game.

looks like i wont bother.

[qwertygod]

4 minutes ago, rigton70 said:

its a shame i am reading this thread.

i was going to buy the new game ( after many years away of playing) for a long time save to get me back in to playing the game.

looks like i wont bother.

To be fair i have been critical of the game but i have a current save that is 13 years deep into the game and still enjoying it and that is probably the longest beta save i have ever had and i am still enjoying it so i don't know if it's completely game breaking

[rigton70]

10 minutes ago, qwertygod said:

To be fair i have been critical of the game but i have a current save that is 13 years deep into the game and still enjoying it and that is probably the longest beta save i have ever had and i am still enjoying it so i don't know if it's completely game breaking

seems to me they are discouraging long time saves as proved by not fixing this issue. ( yet ) i will still hold of from buying the game for now 

[eXistenZ]

13y isnt that deep. It will still have all the current day wonderkids playing as they are around 30 and still top of their game. I'd say you have to judge after 20y when the jude bellinghams have retired

[priority76]

40 minutes ago, rigton70 said:

seems to me they are discouraging long time saves as proved by not fixing this issue.

What would be the reason?

[FrazT]

@priority76  Your last post has been hidden- no more unnecessary comments like that please

[Iggy Hassan]

One of my biggest bugbears in recent, previous versions was selling AI clubs my perfectly good players because I had to raise funds and the AI club paying good money and leaving them to rot in their squad...

Why do after playing the beta since release do I get the distinct feeling that this game is FM22.5 rather than a completely different game?