FM23 Headline Features Revealed

[KeiranShikari]

1 hour ago, BrightLad5 said:

And sell said "scuffed edition" for the same price as the following years alleged "polished version"  

The power you have when you have a monopoly on the market is incredible

That's another way they could get around to updating the graphics. Just sell a scuffed version for the hardcore 2d player people who can't run it and another version for people that bought a half decent pc or laptop within the last decade. 

They could do it like Pokemon and have version specific databases so you actually have to buy both to get all of the best wonderkids.

[BrightLad5]

20 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

That's another way they could get around to updating the graphics. Just sell a scuffed version for the hardcore 2d player people who can't run it and another version for people that bought a half decent pc or laptop within the last decade. 

They could do it like Pokemon and have version specific databases so you actually have to buy both to get all of the best wonderkids.

Just have a graphics slider. 2D or very low 3D for the potato laptops, and then we can slide it to the top for higher end graphics, cut away scenes, close ups on replays etc etc. The argument people often make about it "putting off the core audience" who have old laptops is irrelevant if they add this. Most games have some form of slider or check boxes to turn certain graphics on or off. Its not exactly revolutionary stuff

Edited October 17, 2022 by BrightLad5

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, FCP_Football said:

You are basically paying £32 for a database update now though....

The word "basically" doing a whole lot of work there.  

Have there been enough changes to perhaps warrant a new version?  Not always.  Have there been enough to make a noticeable different to how the game feels? Yes.  Am I really going to have to add that to a 4th post after this one?

[KeiranShikari]

40 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

Just have a graphics slider. 2D or very low 3D for the potato laptops, and then we can slide it to the top for higher end graphics, cut away scenes, close ups on replays etc etc. The argument people often make about it "putting off the core audience" who have old laptops is irrelevant if they add this. Most games have some form of slider or check boxes to turn certain graphics on or off. Its not exactly revolutionary stuff

SI are clearly against that though so there's not point suggesting it. I think my Pokemon holds a lot of water.

FM Peerless Paper and FM Superb Sculpture could be the first generation of flat and 3d games. 

Sign up to the FM blog for a free training potion.

[Vali184]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

The word "basically" doing a whole lot of work there.  

Have there been enough changes to perhaps warrant a new version?  Not always.  Have there been enough to make a noticeable different to how the game feels? Yes.  Am I really going to have to add that to a 4th post after this one?

What changes are making a noticeable difference? It's the same information displayed different. They rearrange a few boxes in the menu, add 2 clicks more to find what I want then they call it a new version and ask for 35£ for it. 

In my country we have a saying: if you put glitter on a turd, it's still a turd.

[priority76]

3 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

In my country we have a saying: if you put glitter on a turd, it's still a turd.

In my country we say: "If you put glitter on a turd, it makes a pretty hat".

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

What changes are making a noticeable difference? It's the same information displayed different. They rearrange a few boxes in the menu, add 2 clicks more to find what I want then they call it a new version and ask for 35£ for it. 

In my country we have a saying: if you put glitter on a turd, it's still a turd.

Well at least this stuff is completely objective and no-one's allowed to have any kind of alternate opinion I suppose.  Saves a lot of bother.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

If I remember it correctly, it was in his attributes combo video @Rashidisaid that the Collyer brothers wanted to create a game that simulates human behavior ON the pitch.

I think this should still be the core priority of the game development, which means main focus has to go to the ME (and with it the visual representation of that human behavior). The better that representation, the bigger the immersion? And it does't need to be fancy graphics (although I would like that because loosy bad graphics gives the impression of an unfinished product or a hastened job done) because even with 2D you can feel quite immersed (maybe because you have you own imagination firing images). 

Now, as a football manager your direct impact on this human behavior on the Pitch is through your tactics, which is of course intertwined with the ME. Roles, team instructions, OI, personal instructions, set-pieces, it all contributes directly to the simulation of the human behavior on the Pitch and therefore should be top priority?! And not only for us as a human manager but also for the AI teams. Recognisable styles in different league etc. It's there but can be improved still I think? 

The next layer is, how as a football manager can we "influence" this human behavior. We might see a midfielder misplacing many passes so we want to change that. That is what training is for, amended with mentoring and could be further enhanced by meaningful player interaction (this is already partly in place by f.e. fining after bad match rating which might impact determination or work rate but can be expanded on.) Another aspect to take into account is player morale. Again partly in the game (broken promises anyone?) but this part still acts illogical sometimes. But here we are slowly entering the simulation of human behavior off the Pitch. 

The next layer is when we did all of the above but we're still not happy with what we see on the Pitch? So we want a "New" human. So here comes scouting and the transfer market into place. This still influences the human behavior we see on the Pitch but Very slightly only (f.e. when contract deal Falls through?) . It is still directed by human behavior (those pesky greedy agents) though and done pretty decently by the game. What can be improved though is how the AI does it longterm squad building (like some said too much based on CA and world reputation and not enough on PA f.e.)

The other parts are for me personally less important because I don't see how they can meaningfully influence the human behavior on the pitch: staff meetings maybe to an extent but most importantly: media. I don't do press conferences. I don't care about them and if I could not even have the inbox item about what my assistant manager said, I would even be more happy. Like we can choose to receive or not receive training emails, we should be able to do the same for all inbox items we might get. Inbox hygiene is important to me in my professional life, so not being able to "achieve" this in FM is frustrating. 

What the game does well now is trying to cater for all tastes. Most layers I mentioned above you can delegate to staff (except for tactics and mentoring if I'm not mistaken) or ignore (some don’t care for player happiness at all) . If I would be able to seriously tinker with the amount of inbox items I get, that would be a huge step forward. I don’t want to be holidaying until the next match and Mark all items as Read because you might miss that one item that IS important to you. Not even mentioning holidaying might make you miss a meeting with the board and you might find yourself out of a job when you come back from the Beach... The inbox items are already labeled so I do think SI must be able to implement in a similar way we can customize our social feed? Which is another thing I absolutely don’t care for... The only thing I find interesting about the fans is how much they pay and with how many they are. I would love them to have better fashion taste too

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

If I remember it correctly, it was in his attributes combo video @Rashidisaid that the Collyer brothers wanted to create a game that simulates human behavior ON the pitch.

I think this should still be the core priority of the game development, which means main focus has to go to the ME (and with it the visual representation of that human behavior). The better that representation, the bigger the immersion? And it does't need to be fancy graphics (although I would like that because loosy bad graphics gives the impression of an unfinished product or a hastened job done) because even with 2D you can feel quite immersed (maybe because you have you own imagination firing images). 

Now, as a football manager your direct impact on this human behavior on the Pitch is through your tactics, which is of course intertwined with the ME. Roles, team instructions, OI, personal instructions, set-pieces, it all contributes directly to the simulation of the human behavior on the Pitch and therefore should be top priority?! And not only for us as a human manager but also for the AI teams. Recognisable styles in different league etc. It's there but can be improved still I think? 

The next layer is, how as a football manager can we "influence" this human behavior. We might see a midfielder misplacing many passes so we want to change that. That is what training is for, amended with mentoring and could be further enhanced by meaningful player interaction (this is already partly in place by f.e. fining after bad match rating which might impact determination or work rate but can be expanded on.) Another aspect to take into account is player morale. Again partly in the game (broken promises anyone?) but this part still acts illogical sometimes. But here we are slowly entering the simulation of human behavior off the Pitch. 

The next layer is when we did all of the above but we're still not happy with what we see on the Pitch? So we want a "New" human. So here comes scouting and the transfer market into place. This still influences the human behavior we see on the Pitch but Very slightly only (f.e. when contract deal Falls through?) . It is still directed by human behavior (those pesky greedy agents) though and done pretty decently by the game. What can be improved though is how the AI does it longterm squad building (like some said too much based on CA and world reputation and not enough on PA f.e.)

The other parts are for me personally less important because I don't see how they can meaningfully influence the human behavior on the pitch: staff meetings maybe to an extent but most importantly: media. I don't do press conferences. I don't care about them and if I could not even have the inbox item about what my assistant manager said, I would even be more happy. Like we can choose to receive or not receive training emails, we should be able to do the same for all inbox items we might get. Inbox hygiene is important to me in my professional life, so not being able to "achieve" this in FM is frustrating. 

What the game does well now is trying to cater for all tastes. Most layers I mentioned above you can delegate to staff (except for tactics and mentoring if I'm not mistaken) or ignore (some don’t care for player happiness at all) . If I would be able to seriously tinker with the amount of inbox items I get, that would be a huge step forward. I don’t want to be holidaying until the next match and Mark all items as Read because you might miss that one item that IS important to you. Not even mentioning holidaying might make you miss a meeting with the board and you might find yourself out of a job when you come back from the Beach... The inbox items are already labeled so I do think SI must be able to implement in a similar way we can customize our social feed? Which is another thing I absolutely don’t care for... The only thing I find interesting about the fans is how much they pay and with how many they are. I would love them to have better fashion taste too

Like it or not, handling media is influencing human behavior. Humans are emotional creatures. The problem with it in FM is there doesn’t seem to be any risk/reward factor to keep players engaged.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[DarJ]

11 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Like it or not, handling media is influencing human behavior. Humans are emotional creatures. The problem with it in FM is there doesn’t seem to be any risk/reward factor to keep players engaged.

I think the problem with it is that because it is a videos game it's hard to code in every possible situation plus your tactic and players has to account for 80 to 90% of success or failure rate 

[aj6658]

decided to Watch Zealands reactions to Nic Maddens FM22 engine talk and just feel like there was just so much promised but undelivered 

• New animation engine allows for smarter and better dribbling. Still think its far off from being good 
• The idea of sprint capacity and stamina meaning that "plug and play genpressing will be a thing of the pass". Think its a great idea but I dont think it had much impact in the end. Genpressing is too easy to implement with any team really 

 

Really hope that the above is fixed and that they improved the defensive. Always feel like its tik Tok sort of improvement. Tik - add something new, Tok - refine but I think its Becoming tik Tok Tok 

[janrzm]

33 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

decided to Watch Zealands reactions to Nic Maddens FM22 engine talk and just feel like there was just so much promised but undelivered 

• New animation engine allows for smarter and better dribbling. Still think its far off from being good 
• The idea of sprint capacity and stamina meaning that "plug and play genpressing will be a thing of the pass". Think its a great idea but I dont think it had much impact in the end. Genpressing is too easy to implement with any team really 

 

Really hope that the above is fixed and that they improved the defensive. Always feel like its tik Tok sort of improvement. Tik - add something new, Tok - refine but I think its Becoming tik Tok Tok 

 

In fairness, I took Nic's messaging around the FM22 engine to be very much related to "moving forward" so we saw a bit of that in FM22 but I'd definitely be hoping to see more in FM23. In relation to weakening the gegenpressing I think they did, but to nowhere near the extent it needed. Hopefully this years additional balancing does that because it still feels so OP to me that I don't like using it.   

Edited October 17, 2022 by janrzm

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, DarJ said:

I think the problem with it is that because it is a videos game it's hard to code in every possible situation plus your tactic and players has to account for 80 to 90% of success or failure rate 

I'm not talking about directly affecting match outcomes. For example, there doesn't seem to be any benefit or downside to having a good/bad relationship with a journalist. The board itself doesn't seem to care about how you handle the press. Making your squad complacent or fired up because of comments made in the media doesn't seem prevalent. With the newly added supporters, I would guess fans don't care about what was said in the press, either. It appears that press conferences were added to the game to build relationships or a rivalry with other managers, which is outdated in its mechanics. Sure there are morale hits when choosing specific answers, but the problem is there is no risk/reward. There is no risking a player's morale to gain fans' support by calling out an underperforming player (In some cases and depending on personality, this should fire a player up!). Currently, it is either a right or wrong answer; with that concept, we will choose the correct answer every time.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[Piperita]

Having spent the last week getting back into the groove, I think I have to make a rather radical statement: It is not the problem what is in the headline features, the current concept of headline features itself is the problem.

For me FM22 was a really good iteration. I had my fun and it ran exceptionally well, even smoother than FM21 which already gave my old system a nice boost. But the more I experimented or started to "roleplay" instead of game the system, the more certain flaws became apparent and, at least according to feedback/general reactions, I wasn't the only one who noticed in many respects.

All we know shortly before release is a list of new (or "new") features but we know nothing about how the changes from last year were expanded or how some more tiresome aspects were changed. A secondary (or even tertiary) list would have been welcome to communicate all the little or not so little details that may not be big or really new but built upon the past.

Keep one list for headliners but make them worth the while and try to give them a "theme" if possible. Focus on new features and additions or really big expansions of older features. The change in defensive play would be one -- Not only is that something big but it comes with some changed TIs but it opens new venues and proper defenses might be an actual counter to the almighty Gegenpress. Fan dynamics either is very big or could be the start of something big. The squad planner is a nice addition and a new feature and in combination with new datasets, it sets a focus on the squad building and -managing aspect of the game. These form a solid base and could believably form the selling points and the "focus"/"motto" of this year. Last year there was buzz about long-term saves. This year could have been "Club identity" -- we are promised options to play "good" defensive football AND have better management tools to shape the squad (planner and agents) AND have a second source of culture next to the board's demand. But instead of a focus and a "philosophy", the focus lies on that infamous watch and the timeline that some people read to just be a graphics update to existing data.

Second list could be all the minor features and snippets and what is worth talking about but is not part of the big theme or not one of the "wow"-features.

Personally, I favor updates and lists that build upon what we have. Updates in regards to the last year's features and flaws. For a chunkier update it could read something like:

"Last year we added team meetings. To better integrate them into the workflow of the game and make them more relevant to the manager, we made the following changes:
1) The manager can better control what topics they need updates about. Topics can be pushed back to the "big" meetings at start/middle/end of the season, disabled entirely, or even be marked "low/high priority".
2) More contextual advise. Especially for player traits and morale, the advisors will state a more succinct and logical reason behind their advise. On that note, they will also now take into account player's positions before recommending new traits -- no more "should run down the center" for your player who almost always plays as winger!
3) Coach personalities. Coaches are more likely to make recommendations that fit into their personal favoured tactics. They are also more likely to make mistakes when their relevant stats are lacking or to guide a player to "golden" options if they are particularly skilled themselves
4) Integration with the Data Hub: Your coaches now read the reports and can give more contextual advise on where you might ned to make improvements or what you can and should focus upon"

But it could also be something simple like "Last year we added the Data Hub. For better functionality we added more data points, particularly in regards to X."

Show us that the "old" features are not forgotten about and are part of the evolving game and not "just" an attraction for a year that then merely continues to exist in the shadow of new shiny things. I am not saying that this happens; there have been changes in the past and there have been chunks teased here and there but I think this evolution and a signalisation that features keep getting expanded or that the devs are working on less stellar elements of past versions.

Another list could be about additions that are a teaser or part of coming bigger changes. Use them and highlight them. We get to see glimpses of larger coming projects and SI gets some early feedback to the general theme. Or we could get incremental development towards a more loose theme.

An example for incremental development: I spoke earlier about National Management. Don't make that a really large focus but add parts to the game that affect NM-management more. Player relations, player stories, expectation management, experience mattering, morale fluctuation, a downpour from national success to the leagues and clubs. Most of these elements by themselves could be made into headliners. But for each of these elements there are also some large connectors to national management that really come into play in that part of the game. Highlight them and showcase them as part of the "masterplan international management" -- They are good features themselves but they are also part of something larger!

An example for teasers: Fan confidence. Granted, I don't know exactly how it will be implemented but according to Remy it is not fully dynamic. It looks like something that will have an impact and shows us new aspects of the game but is not at its final stage. There could be much more to come but we already get a nice introduction.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Piperita
Changed structure a bit

[Socerer 01]

3 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I'm not talking about directly affecting match outcomes. For example, there doesn't seem to be any benefit or downside to having a good/bad relationship with a journalist. The board itself doesn't seem to care about how you handle the press. Making your squad complacent or fired up because of comments made in the media doesn't seem prevalent. With the newly added supporters, I would guess fans don't care about what was said in the press, either. It appears that press conferences were added to the game to build relationships or a rivalry with other managers, which is outdated in its mechanics. Sure there are morale hits when choosing specific answers, but the problem is there is no risk/reward. There is no risking a player's morale to gain fans' support by calling out an underperforming player (In some cases and depending on personality, this should fire a player up!). Currently, it is either a right or wrong answer; with that concept, we will choose the correct answer every time.

 

In older FMs you could talk about individual players or managers to the press outside of press conferences. You could praise or criticise them, you could point them out as a strong or weak link prior to a match and react to their performance after that match. The latter was a bit gamey but why were such features removed? They at least gave some role for the media in the game compared to now with those individual interactions being integrated into press conferences for even more pointless questions... It's like SI has no idea sometimes on what to do with features they introduce

[b.sinisa]

Let be real the media that was made in the 22 version is dull and boring and most of the players just skipping it so my addon to this would be a lot more random and not so random question a press officer staff and so on...

[XaW]

17 hours ago, BrightLad5 said:

Just have a graphics slider. 2D or very low 3D for the potato laptops, and then we can slide it to the top for higher end graphics, cut away scenes, close ups on replays etc etc. The argument people often make about it "putting off the core audience" who have old laptops is irrelevant if they add this. Most games have some form of slider or check boxes to turn certain graphics on or off. Its not exactly revolutionary stuff

A final post of mine in terms of the graphical discussion before I leave you to it. Remember that SI doesn't have licenses for the appearance of most players. So even with massively good graphics they are not able to show players who are identifiable in the match anyway. This might be at least partially why those who show players from older FIFA games or such would be disappointed no matter what SI would do. Would you enjoy it if the graphics were drastically improved, but the player faces was anonymously bland due to licences?

For what it's worth, I do think that what could and probably should be improved in the match is the surrounding stuff, stadiums and fans and the areas around could do with a facelift. 

[FelixForte]

7 minutes ago, XaW said:

A final post of mine in terms of the graphical discussion before I leave you to it. Remember that SI doesn't have licenses for the appearance of most players. So even with massively good graphics they are not able to show players who are identifiable in the match anyway. This might be at least partially why those who show players from older FIFA games or such would be disappointed no matter what SI would do. Would you enjoy it if the graphics were drastically improved, but the player faces was anonymously bland due to licences?

For what it's worth, I do think that what could and probably should be improved in the match is the surrounding stuff, stadiums and fans and the areas around could do with a facelift. 

Let's be honest, it would be sufficiently zoomed out that you do not need the detail in the faces. Compare it to FIFA Manager 2013. Two free kicks. You tell me which looks better. And there's a ten year gap in graphics between them.

 

[BrightLad5]

4 minutes ago, XaW said:

Would you enjoy it if the graphics were drastically improved, but the player faces was anonymously bland due to licences?

Yes. If the graphics were say on par with a game like FIFA 08 (from 14 years ago) that would be an improvement, regardless of what the players faces looked like. Cut aways, close ups of players lined up pre match, close ups at corner kicks etc. I would enjoy this more than the current graphics

[DMaster2]

57 minuti fa, FelixForte ha scritto:

Let's be honest, it would be sufficiently zoomed out that you do not need the detail in the faces. Compare it to FIFA Manager 2013. Two free kicks. You tell me which looks better. And there's a ten year gap in graphics between them.

 

It's honestly embarassing to show graphics that would be barely acceptable 10 years ago and doing nothing about it for years

[Druid DR]

21 minutes ago, DMaster2 said:

It's honestly embarassing to show graphics that would be barely acceptable 10 years ago and doing nothing about it for years

The thing is though, the graphics on FM were pretty good at one point.  They don't need to be on par with FIFA imho, not even a 10-year old FIFIA.  FM17 was beautiful, especially its lighting, pitches, and the stadium variety we had.  I make no apologies for posting more screenshots from my old FM17 save.  I miss those 3D graphics so much, I just wish SI would explain what was gained in FM18 by stripping away the beautiful looking game we had prior to that edition and the 5 editions that followed,

[el_manayer]

2 minutes ago, Druid DR said:

The thing is though, the graphics on FM were pretty good at one point.  They don't need to be on par with FIFA imho, not even a 10-year old FIFIA.  FM17 was beautiful, especially its lighting, pitches, and the stadium variety we had.  I make no apologies for posting more screenshots from my old FM17 save.  I miss those 3D graphics so much, I just wish SI would explain what was gained in FM18 by stripping away the beautiful looking game we had prior to that edition and the 5 editions that followed,

This looks fantastic, look at those stadiums, I love them. I love the screenshot taken near the grass, it looks just so good and natural for a small team stadium. That helps the immersion immensely. I mean, graphics are far from realistic/Fifa like, but I think everyone would be happy if the game still looked like that Today but with the recent updates in player movements etc, and we had it 6 years ago

[aj6658]

The whole outrage when Zealand posted about graphics was so strange. You had people going "If youre playing FM for the graphics, youre playing it wrong" or "i play in 2D, i dont care about the graphics". My opinion is 

• SI have put a 3d engine into the game and i think they have said that the majority of players use it 
• The graphics is the visual reputation of the ME. 
• The game is about replicating football and the only you can do that is if you can see your tactics play out on screen. 
• Graphic sliders have been in games for ages 
• No one is asking for Fifa 18 graphics let alone the latest graphics. Zealand is absolutely right to say that the game graphically look over 2 decades old. 
• Its a barrier to entry for new players - i cant play games like skyrim cos they look very dated
• If your computer struggles to player FM now, its gonna struggle with new graphics. We shouldnt benchmark to systems 2 decades old. 
• Youre so zoomed out in matches anyway, youre not trying to replicate faces (and therefore breach licenses). 
•  

[Druid DR]

10 minutes ago, el_manayer said:

This looks fantastic, look at those stadiums, I love them. I love the screenshot taken near the grass, it looks just so good and natural for a small team stadium. That helps the immersion immensely. I mean, graphics are far from realistic/Fifa like, but I think everyone would be happy if the game still looked like that Today but with the recent updates in player movements etc, and we had it 6 years ago

Yep, small stadiums were really small, many grassroots clubs never even had stands, some just looked like a field with a fence or wall surrounding it.  I don't think we get that now in the current FMs, I think every stadium looks like it can hold a minimum of 5000 people.  No immersion at all if you're managing a club from the Northern League.

 

One other thing I miss is the wealth of camera angles we once had.   They were all removed in FM18 and still haven't been put back.  

[alian62]

I think Zealands comments were intended and authorised by SI to push ther agenda so they can have a big new graphics release for FM24 when the womerns leagues will start . 

For other past major releases ...What ever happened to Derbys and Dynamic clashes . Derbys get hardly any mention and there is never any build up to it plus even on game day its treated like any other match ...  Would be great to play for a trophy on derby day 

Edited October 18, 2022 by alian62

[BuryBlade]

1 hour ago, Druid DR said:

The thing is though, the graphics on FM were pretty good at one point.  They don't need to be on par with FIFA imho, not even a 10-year old FIFIA.  FM17 was beautiful, especially its lighting, pitches, and the stadium variety we had.  I make no apologies for posting more screenshots from my old FM17 save.  I miss those 3D graphics so much, I just wish SI would explain what was gained in FM18 by stripping away the beautiful looking game we had prior to that edition and the 5 editions that followed,

Thanks for sharing these images. Absolutely beautiful! 

[aj6658]

3 minutes ago, alian62 said:

I think Zealands comments were intended and authorised by SI to push ther agenda so they can have a big new graphics release for FM24 when the womerns leagues will start . 

For other past major releases ...What ever happened to Derbys and Dynamic clashes . Derbys get hardly any mention and there is never any build up to it plus even on game day its treated like any other match ...  Would be great to play for a trophy on derby day 

Have they said that FM24 is when Womens football is coming? 

Massive if true - i'm very much of the thought that we will see a big change in the core systems at that point. They have a big budget ring fenced for the womens game and it makes sense that you might as well taken the next step in the game as well. Even their Job descriptions mention technological change 

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, aj6658 said:

Have they said that FM24 is when Womens football is coming?

There's been no news of when it's coming, just that it's coming. It's a multi-year project.

[FelixForte]

I think most of us have seen the FM17 screenshots., where the graphic engine indeed looked better. I think since then there have been some big overhauls to the match engine, for instance in the way players move. Perhaps that has caused graphics to not improve (or even become worse). Could it be that they're just trying to keep the graphics okay until they transition into a new era of FM, with completely different graphics?

[evilpimp972]

Il y a 3 heures, FelixForte a dit :

Let's be honest, it would be sufficiently zoomed out that you do not need the detail in the faces. Compare it to FIFA Manager 2013. Two free kicks. You tell me which looks better. And there's a ten year gap in graphics between them.

 

Just a peak of FIFA Manager 13 3d engine at 2:22 makes me sad tbh

 

 

[andu1]

People are mostly interested in graphics apparently... I for one buy the game for the ME, challenging AI and squad building... If the game didn't had 3D graphics i would still buy it. Even now, i still play a lot in 2D mode...

So it seems i was one of the few who got to be excited about AI improvements.

 

 

[aj6658]

4 minutes ago, andu1 said:

People are mostly interested in graphics apparently... I for one buy the game for the ME, challenging AI and squad building... If the game didn't had 3D graphics i would still buy it. Even now, i still play a lot in 2D mode...

So it seems i was one of the few who got to be excited about AI improvements.

 

 

Its not either or though. 

Think SI confirmed that the majority of players play in 3D. If they just had 2D i wouldnt play because i feel like thats more of a text reader than watching a game of football. I want to see passes, tackles and goals as i watch in football and i alot of consumers do. 

Its fair for us to ask why the game hasnt moved forward in half a decade graphically. Would you be happy that if FM32 looked the same as FM22?  If FIFA manager 13, a game a decade old, looks a decade ahead of FM graphically is an issue. 

At the end of the day, im the same as you, i rather have a better ME and AI but its not a case of you can only have one.

 

[rp1966]

32 minutes ago, andu1 said:

People are mostly interested in graphics apparently... I for one buy the game for the ME, challenging AI and squad building... If the game didn't had 3D graphics i would still buy it. Even now, i still play a lot in 2D mode...

So it seems i was one of the few who got to be excited about AI improvements.

 

 

I don't think it's that people are mostly interested in graphics; I think it is the fact that it has now become the area of the game most in need of an overhaul.  Everyone wants the ME to evolve, and it does in a pretty reliable way (abominations like FM20 aside); and everyone wants better AI squad building, but I think anyone who thinks about the kind  of decision path required to do that will acknowledge it as being a tough programming challenge.  Graphics on the other hand are (or should be) one of the easiest aspects of a game to improve (especially starting from FM18's low base) and it hasn't been happening.

The writing was on the wall back when FM18 was released - the FM player base is amazingly patient, but FM18 was greeted by mockery - captured by the ongoing picnic table references. It's the standard thing for the first negative reaction to something on the internet to be ****-taking - but fail to recognise and act on it and mockery turns to a deeper level of dissatisfaction and that's what we're now seeing.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by rp1966

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, FelixForte said:

I think most of us have seen the FM17 screenshots., where the graphic engine indeed looked better. I think since then there have been some big overhauls to the match engine, for instance in the way players move. Perhaps that has caused graphics to not improve (or even become worse). Could it be that they're just trying to keep the graphics okay until they transition into a new era of FM, with completely different graphics?

I really hope so

[Steve1977beyond]

All this talk is why I still use 2D classic to be honest with you. 110% SI have put so much into the match engine and this why we never see the same goals over and over again. No-one could ever accuse it of being scripted and nor can it be, given the constant recalculations going on.

 

However, the match engine is different to the match graphics. The graphics are merely place holders for the engine and it's these graphics which badly need to be improved. Don't pull the wool over our eyes and say there's 'x' new animations because even in the previews you see players sliding into position as they go from point A to point B.

Been a long term player since the CM1 days on the Amiga. Does this mean my opinion carries more weight? Of course not. But thought it needed saying as there seems this belief from folk who don't want improved graphics, that it's only newer players clamouring for this.

In reality, FM is touching the ceiling on what it can improve. Hence why the rebrand changed the match day skin when in reality the older way was great. This year a headline feature is official UEFA branding, so it's a natural extension that if SI are pushing more immersion through cool new graphics, then the next logical step and wish from fans is for the match graphics to be significantly improved.

As a little sidenote, I recall seeing the graphics/skin for an online footy game SI did specifically for China (no FM live we had in Europe) and it blew me away how cool it looked.

Ultimately, FM is all about immersion. Making the gamer believe they're a manager as best a game can. To do that SI have achieved amazing things with only one obstacle left to face...the Match graphics.

[DP]

12 minutes ago, Steve1977beyond said:

All this talk is why I still use 2D classic to be honest with you. 110% SI have put so much into the match engine and this why we never see the same goals over and over again. No-one could ever accuse it of being scripted and nor can it be, given the constant recalculations going on.

 

However, the match engine is different to the match graphics. The graphics are merely place holders for the engine and it's these graphics which badly need to be improved. Don't pull the wool over our eyes and say there's 'x' new animations because even in the previews you see players sliding into position as they go from point A to point B.

Been a long term player since the CM1 days on the Amiga. Does this mean my opinion carries more weight? Of course not. But thought it needed saying as there seems this belief from folk who don't want improved graphics, that it's only newer players clamouring for this.

In reality, FM is touching the ceiling on what it can improve. Hence why the rebrand changed the match day skin when in reality the older way was great. This year a headline feature is official UEFA branding, so it's a natural extension that if SI are pushing more immersion through cool new graphics, then the next logical step and wish from fans is for the match graphics to be significantly improved.

As a little sidenote, I recall seeing the graphics/skin for an online footy game SI did specifically for China (no FM live we had in Europe) and it blew me away how cool it looked.

Ultimately, FM is all about immersion. Making the gamer believe they're a manager as best a game can. To do that SI have achieved amazing things with only one obstacle left to face...the Match graphics.

Graphics is far from the only obstacle in the engine. You are aware there is no modern collision detection and physics engine right? They do a great job of creating a realistic illusion but the actual engine itself cannot represent real football until that is addressed. 

[grade]

Oh God... what have I done!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Just succumb to the pressure of the When is the Beta coming out speculation thread... I bought the game!!!!!

I really, really don't play with a full deck of cards.

It's official, I'm addicted to this game.

Edited October 18, 2022 by grade

[DMaster2]

3 ore fa, alian62 ha scritto:

I think Zealands comments were intended and authorised by SI to push ther agenda so they can have a big new graphics release for FM24 when the womerns leagues will start . 

For other past major releases ...What ever happened to Derbys and Dynamic clashes . Derbys get hardly any mention and there is never any build up to it plus even on game day its treated like any other match ...  Would be great to play for a trophy on derby day 

So they preventively sabotage the launch of FM23 with this move so they can promote a graphic overhaul in FM24? That makes no sense, first you wouldn't sabotage this year's game and second people WANTS a graphic overhaul, you don't need to prepare the ground for it.

Massive graphic overhaul + women's football + me improvements is already far better than the last two years "headline features".

[saihtam]

25 minutes ago, grade said:

Oh God... what have I done!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Just succumb to the pressure of the When is the Beta coming out speculation thread... I bought the game!!!!!

I really, really don't play with a full deck of cards.

It's official, I'm addicted to this game.

Unfortunatly there is no sad emotion button for posts

[Ferocious289]

6 hours ago, DMaster2 said:

It's honestly embarassing to show graphics that would be barely acceptable 10 years ago and doing nothing about it for years

 

It's criminal, we've been scammed with the excuse that si need to cater towards the cheap skates who don't wish to upgrade from their 2010 laptops.

[DarJ]

Just now, Ferocious289 said:

 

It's criminal, we've been scammed with the excuse that si need to cater towards the cheap skates who don't wish to upgrade from their 2010 laptops.

Do you know what a scam is? 
No one from SI has ever said they need to cater towards cheap skates, those are all speculation from people. No one knows what their plan is 

[IrrelevantLion]

 

[KeiranShikari]

Was just about to say the social media ad campaign has just gone live. 

Will watch hoping for stuff related to defensive football but nothing yet from the couple I've already seen.

[CFuller]

29 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

It's criminal, we've been scammed with the excuse that si need to cater towards the cheap skates who don't wish to upgrade from their 2010 laptops.

I have a laptop from 2010. It was a high-end 21st-century gaming laptop at the time, but it cannot run FM22, let alone modern games (I now only use it for non-gaming stuff).

Anyway... I think your comment just smells of snobbery and entitlement.

You might have an ultra-modern gaming PC - or at least be in a position where you can upgrade to one - but not all of us are as fortunate. Not all of us can afford to invest in new hardware or PCs on an annual or even biennial basis.

Also, I'm pretty sure a sizeable chunk of the community bought their laptop just to play FM. Even if they could afford to upgrade, they likely wouldn't want or need to. You might be happy to freeze out those customers so the game can look prettier for you, but SI will look at the bigger picture, and they may not want to take that risk until they feel the investment is worth it.

Calling those customers "cheap skates" or selfish or calling SI's decision to cater to them a "scam" is totally uncalled for. They are not the problem.

[IrrelevantLion]

1 minute ago, CFuller said:

I have a laptop from 2010. It was a high-end 21st-century gaming laptop at the time, but it cannot run FM22, let alone modern games (I now only use it for non-gaming stuff).

Anyway... I think your comment just smells of snobbery and entitlement.

You might have an ultra-modern gaming PC - or at least be in a position where you can upgrade to one - but not all of us are as fortunate. Not all of us can afford to invest in new hardware or PCs on an annual or even biennial basis.

Also, I'm pretty sure a sizeable chunk of the community bought their laptop just to play FM. Even if they could afford to upgrade, they likely wouldn't want or need to. You might be happy to freeze out those customers so the game can look prettier for you, but SI will look at the bigger picture, and they may not want to take that risk until they feel the investment is worth it.

Calling those customers "cheap skates" or selfish or calling SI's decision to cater to them a "scam" is totally uncalled for. They are not the problem.

By that logic games should never have evolved past text-based games because people couldn't afford newer gen computers

[Mars_Blackmon]

30 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

 

I literally got bombard with the same type of video from numerous FM channels…Is this SI’s way of marketing the game? SMH.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[aj6658]

35 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

 

It's criminal, we've been scammed with the excuse that si need to cater towards the cheap skates who don't wish to upgrade from their 2010 laptops.

Pretty out of order comment. 

If you use you computer for the bare basics like watching netflixs and browsing the web and also like playing FM, you cant expect someone to fork out a few hundred solely to play one game . Particularly in this day and age

[BuryBlade]

5 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I literally got bombard with the same type of video from numerous FM channels…Is this SI’s way of marketing the game? SMH.

Tbf, in this video Zealand highlights his frustration that set pieces and international management have not been touched or improved at all. 

[KeiranShikari]

DrBenjy - We'll need 1 or 2 hundred hours in the game to see if defensive football is viable.

Looking forward to Zealand's 'low block was a lie' video in 6 months time.

[phnompenhandy]

I'm ploughing through these YouTube videos. First impression - death by a thousand meetings. Probably fine if recruitment is what most excites you in FM, but as an Academy Challenge type manage myself, it leaves me cold. More interesting stuff like tactical improvements and graphics are too incremental to excite me much. What might be the most important improvement, AI squad building, can't be detected in half a season, so we'll not know about that yet. But overall, it's a 'meh' from me.