Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

[duesouth]

Re: too many long punts/defensive mistakes @Pav_Makarov raised and also @Johnny Ace commented on - I posted several pkm's last night, but have been thinking (yes, dangerous, I know!).  The 2 games where the problem was worse was when I rotated.  Although I rotated the whole XI, my backup group haven't played much together - so Team Cohesion would be pretty bad.  I'm thinking perhaps this impacts on the defending too much and needs to be tweaked?  That would fit in with what SI are telling us that no ME changes were made, but things outside the ME that have clearly impacted what we see as it's a different game now.  I think rolling things back to the beta would give us a better product and perhaps SI can then take a little longer than the 2 weeks between beta and full release to fix the game being too easy (which I believe was the reason behind the tweaks outside the ME, which have impacted what we see within the ME).

 

[craiigman]

On 06/12/2020 at 15:06, craiigman said:

Based on everything I’ve seen from Miles in videos and his Twitter feed suggests this is the case. Heck in the beta stream they done he said how much he pushed for the players at the bottom, then admitted he didn’t even use it. Can’t make it up.

He comes across as someone I’d never want to personally work for. He’s a legend for sure, but he’s starting to remind me of Arsene at Arsenal towards the end, just with a bit less class (Twitter is all the evidence I need for that, it’s not me slandering him).

https://clips.twitch.tv/MushyNastyFinchJonCarnage

[Pav_Makarov]

Sorry for being a nuisance, but what about league fixtures? Do they return to normal on season 2 or stay shifted forward and condensed as they are in 20/21? Atm "next season"  tab in league rules shows same schedules

Is that's the case, does that mean that scheduling for continental competitions are perpetually screwed too?

[MatthewS17]

2 hours ago, FreezingTable said:

Why is this game year after year released with a lot of bugs? I love the game and want and KNOW it could be better.
I don’t feel the effort of delivering a good and functional game is there. It’s always half done work and the same problems accruing year after year.

 

This is a good point, and it's why I've always questioned the length of the beta period. In fact, the beta period seems to be more of a marketing scheme than a way to iron out the game. So many bugs are there this year, that could be simple fixes, some from last year, and SI haven't even responded to many of them in the Bugs Forum. 

My biggest gripe this year is GK long kicks. Despite instructions stating otherwise, it's always kicked long. This was an issue in Beta, brought up inn Bugs in the beta and here we are with SI saying there "might" be an update before Christmas. That's unacceptable. It's arrogance. Why have that beta period then? If you need longer, why not have beta testers a month or two in advance?

Lack of feedback continues to be a massive problem. And the mention of this thread doesn't count, as I'm pretty sure it's to make people feel as if their opinions matter, but from experience of FM20, it really doesn't.

[JordanMilly]

47 minutes ago, Pav_Makarov said:

Sorry for being a nuisance, but what about league fixtures? Do they return to normal on season 2 or stay shifted forward and condensed as they are in 20/21? Atm "next season"  tab in league rules shows same schedules

Is that's the case, does that mean that scheduling for continental competitions are perpetually screwed too?

They shift back to normal for 21/22, change in 22/23 to take into account the World Cup, then go back to normal again.

[The Threadstarter]

just a quick question , can someone tell me how to set that players that are scouted are shortlisted?

i can't seem to find it in the scout centre advanced settings.

[Pav_Makarov]

28 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

They shift back to normal for 21/22, change in 22/23 to take into account the World Cup, then go back to normal again.

My concern is - scheduling in leaue rules for next seasons stays the same. I'm still on season one, so that's why I'm asking. Here's the topic I've started yesterday with screenshots of seasons 21/22 being the same as 20/21. Is it that it's just rules for next season don't take scheduling into account?

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Pav_Makarov

[duesouth]

15 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

This is a good point, and it's why I've always questioned the length of the beta period. In fact, the beta period seems to be more of a marketing scheme than a way to iron out the game. So many bugs are there this year, that could be simple fixes, some from last year, and SI haven't even responded to many of them in the Bugs Forum. 

My biggest gripe this year is GK long kicks. Despite instructions stating otherwise, it's always kicked long. This was an issue in Beta, brought up inn Bugs in the beta and here we are with SI saying there "might" be an update before Christmas. That's unacceptable. It's arrogance. Why have that beta period then? If you need longer, why not have beta testers a month or two in advance?

Lack of feedback continues to be a massive problem. And the mention of this thread doesn't count, as I'm pretty sure it's to make people feel as if their opinions matter, but from experience of FM20, it really doesn't.

For me the past 2 years, the beta is released and then very quickly in that 2 week period SI make changes.  Given the complexity of the game/ME, it seems rushing out changes for full release in that 2 week period (actually less than that, as feedback takes a while to come in and then they have to test/publish it) can have unintended consquences (the domino effect) and the full release game ends up the worse for it.  Given how long we must wait for the next patch because SI want to get it right (and I have no problem with that) - the rushed changes between beta and full release seem strange.

So, I would strongly agree that the beta period should be longer - give the devs more time to get it right or if SI won;t do that at least leave the more complex things well alone and just fix basic errors (although if there are game breaking issues, they'll have to be fixed).  Certainly what I see in the ME now is worse than the beta - I know it wasn't ME changes that caused it, but whatever was changed, the games aren't as fun for me.  This is better than FM20 - but the beta ME experience was pretty close to outstanding, and now we're seeing some bad elements from FM19 and FM20 sneak back in...

I would also agree with the feedback point.  A link between devs and us would make sense - e.g. the pkm's I uploaded last night, I know I won't get feedback - but getting something constructive and informative back would certainly make me want to upload more in the future - whereas when you get ignored (or feels like it), you don't engage as much.

[Pav_Makarov]

7 minutes ago, duesouth said:

So, I would strongly agree that the beta period should be longer

100 times this. Since FM 19 game comes out horrendously bugged at the first version. I've broken my rule - buying only after first big update twice in 19 and now. 19 was a huge mistake and I haven't even completed a season before march when it all got ironed out and now was just a desperate move to ditch FM 20 and forget it's ME like a horrible nightmare.

Why even having 2 weeks long beta when full release with all it's valid price is all messed up? Let it be Beta till christmas patch as it, let's be honest, is

[IrishRovers]

A minor irritation for me is the little pop-up that tells you a player has a knock and suggests a sub. In theory, this is a good quality-of-life adjustment - a quicker way to take off players who pick up niggles during the game, and a reflection of something that would happen in real life where a fitness coach or whatever might have a word in the manager's ear if a player's looking uncomfortable.

In practice it's broken for two reasons. Firstly and most seriously, the suggestions for who to sub on are a wee bit off, so they want me to play a striker on the wing when we've got a like-for-like replacement on the bench who's being ignored. Secondly, less seriously but annoyingly, they often use a formulation like 'so-and-so has taken a bang to the knee, but they should be fine to continue - I recommend we replace them with....'. Make your mind up! 

I was thinking about this yesterday evening. On a more general level than this admittedly superficial complaint, it's pretty unusual and worrying, in my opinion, that the best way to play the game is to ignore almost all of the prompts, suggestions and advice that are given to you in the game. If you made all the mentality changes and substitutes the game suggests that you make, you'd be snookered! And that's fine for me, since I've been playing FM since the days before assistant manager advice and I ignore it as a matter of principle, but for people without all those wasted years under their belts it must be confusing to have a game that you need to ignore in order to succeed.

This is perhaps a slightly strange thought experiment, but compare it with something like Yoshi's Island on the SNES, where you're constantly being taught new things which you then put into practice on the following levels. During the first Covid lockdown my girlfriend and I played that all the way through on an emulator. She'd never played it, never had a console as a kid, doesn't play games at all, but she loved it, because it kind of holds your hand through all the mechanics (while also being fun, challenging and so on). Compare that to FM now, which pretends to hold your hand but is actually leading you into, like, a dark alley where Sam Allardyce is waiting with some snooker balls wrapped in a sock. I think the in-game prompts and advice are a good idea, but they really need a lot of work to stop being misleading.

 

[kiwityke]

12 minutes ago, duesouth said:

For me the past 2 years, the beta is released and then very quickly in that 2 week period SI make changes.  Given the complexity of the game/ME, it seems rushing out changes for full release in that 2 week period (actually less than that, as feedback takes a while to come in and then they have to test/publish it) can have unintended consquences (the domino effect) and the full release game ends up the worse for it.  Given how long we must wait for the next patch because SI want to get it right (and I have no problem with that) - the rushed changes between beta and full release seem strange.

So, I would strongly agree that the beta period should be longer - give the devs more time to get it right or if SI won;t do that at least leave the more complex things well alone and just fix basic errors (although if there are game breaking issues, they'll have to be fixed).  Certainly what I see in the ME now is worse than the beta - I know it wasn't ME changes that caused it, but whatever was changed, the games aren't as fun for me.  This is better than FM20 - but the beta ME experience was pretty close to outstanding, and now we're seeing some bad elements from FM19 and FM20 sneak back in...

I would also agree with the feedback point.  A link between devs and us would make sense - e.g. the pkm's I uploaded last night, I know I won't get feedback - but getting something constructive and informative back would certainly make me want to upload more in the future - whereas when you get ignored (or feels like it), you don't engage as much.

I honestly have seen bugs in the game I know for a dead cert fact I reported way back in 2011...they are still in the game 9 years later.

[denv]

10 minutes ago, IrishRovers said:

A minor irritation for me is the little pop-up that tells you a player has a knock and suggests a sub. In theory, this is a good quality-of-life adjustment - a quicker way to take off players who pick up niggles during the game, and a reflection of something that would happen in real life where a fitness coach or whatever might have a word in the manager's ear if a player's looking uncomfortable.

In practice it's broken for two reasons. Firstly and most seriously, the suggestions for who to sub on are a wee bit off, so they want me to play a striker on the wing when we've got a like-for-like replacement on the bench who's being ignored. Secondly, less seriously but annoyingly, they often use a formulation like 'so-and-so has taken a bang to the knee, but they should be fine to continue - I recommend we replace them with....'. Make your mind up! 

I was thinking about this yesterday evening. On a more general level than this admittedly superficial complaint, it's pretty unusual and worrying, in my opinion, that the best way to play the game is to ignore almost all of the prompts, suggestions and advice that are given to you in the game. If you made all the mentality changes and substitutes the game suggests that you make, you'd be snookered! And that's fine for me, since I've been playing FM since the days before assistant manager advice and I ignore it as a matter of principle, but for people without all those wasted years under their belts it must be confusing to have a game that you need to ignore in order to succeed.

This is perhaps a slightly strange thought experiment, but compare it with something like Yoshi's Island on the SNES, where you're constantly being taught new things which you then put into practice on the following levels. During the first Covid lockdown my girlfriend and I played that all the way through on an emulator. She'd never played it, never had a console as a kid, doesn't play games at all, but she loved it, because it kind of holds your hand through all the mechanics (while also being fun, challenging and so on). Compare that to FM now, which pretends to hold your hand but is actually leading you into, like, a dark alley where Sam Allardyce is waiting with some snooker balls wrapped in a sock. I think the in-game prompts and advice are a good idea, but they really need a lot of work to stop being misleading.

 

Completely agree with this - the "Assistant advice" is not really a clear mechanism, and the game should be more clear about whether the advice is actually helpful, or is just an opinion of the AssMan. 

And why, for example, in the in-match pre-kickoff screen, does there always seem to be one specific bit of oppo advice (e.g. "we should always go in hard on Mo Salah"), but then if you click through to tactics, then opposition, and click to follow the AssMan's advice, you get possibly dozens of other instructions? How is that first one chosen above all the others?

Like you say, if I were a novice, a might think that all their advice is a genuine tip to help improve outcomes, but clearly it depends on a range of factors like the AssMan's attributes and preferences, and its not really clear how that translates to their advice. Mine nearly always recommends that I choose hard tackling for all 11 of my opponents. Great - then I have 3 yellow cards within 10 minutes. 

Again like you say, the substitution instructions are a bit mixed. It could also be improved if they offered one more step? E.g. say I have a WBL on the bench, and my WBR has got a knock. My starting WBL can play WBR, so it would make sense to make the sub and then switch the players round - but that is never suggested.

Similarly, opposition instructions themselves aren't always that clear? If I'm playing gegenpress with high lines and pressing already turned up to the max in my team and player instructions, is "always press" as an opposition instruction going to do anything on top? 

[rafaelservo]

Has the newgen bug created only in loaded countries been fixed yet?

[Sharkn20]

7 minutes ago, rafaelservo said:

Has the newgen bug created only in loaded countries been fixed yet?

No

[MatthewS17]

58 minutes ago, duesouth said:

Given how long we must wait for the next patch because SI want to get it right (and I have no problem with that)

Although I agree with a lot of your points, I'm one of those not okay with this. In principle, it is perfectly fine. But SI since FM18 have been covering gaping wounds with duct tape rather than actually tackling the issue.

For example, let's take last year. Far too many 1v1s, balls in behind and it's far too easy to penetrate the wings(Bear in mind, I'm ignoring central play given it's a FM19 issue continuing). So defending is clearly the issue, given the lack of central play means attacking play already has a nerf. How they fix it? Completely nerf 1v1s and chance conversion. That, for me, is not tackling the problem at hand, and it's what made me deeply upset going forward. 

There are a few issues this year, which arguably, if polished could make this the best edition, but there doesn't seem much of a will to get it there.

Back to your point, one of the things that happened last year was when the issues of finishing chances weren't rectified among many things that made a large portion of the user base very upset, as SI stated to be moving on to FM21.

Because of the upset, a post detailing in simple terms, "we're happy with the game, so sod off". If you're not sodding off, buy the next one and hope for better.

So even in longer term matters, there's less trust that SI can be relied on to solve issues. And as somebody said above, some bugs have remained for many years unfixed.

[KeegBCFC]

2 hours ago, craiigman said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/MushyNastyFinchJonCarnage

Just proof that it's now all about bells and whistles whilst the actual game steps backwards each year. 

[rafaelservo]

8 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Não

 

So you can't create a new save because in the long run we won't have players in the national teams ...

[mp_87]

I don't know if this has been commented on, it probably only becomes apparent if you watch matches in full, but anyone else seeing numerous occasions when a player will carry the ball over the touchline/goal-line and just keep running into the advertising hoardings? Often looks like they could do something with it eg. swing in a cross before it goes out but don't. I'd maybe give this the benefit of the doubt and put it down to graphics not quite matching what actually happened in the ME, but I'm seeing players doing this when the ball is going out for their throw in and instead they chase and run it out, under zero pressure, and give one away to the opposition instead. And then we get to the bizarre mechanics of it all where they just keep running past the touchline into the hoardings. Strange.

Edited December 8, 2020 by mp_87

[Pav_Makarov]

4 minutes ago, rafaelservo said:

 

So you can't create a new save because in the long run we won't have players in the national teams ...

Well, there was a fix, but apparently it didn't work, but SI say it's save compatible, so as soon as they make it work there's hope current saves can go on

[rafaelservo]

6 minutes ago, Pav_Makarov said:

Well, there was a fix, but apparently it didn't work, but SI say it's save compatible, so as soon as they make it work there's hope current saves can go on

Ok, thanks. My fear is that I will advance the save and not work for current saves ...

[stevemc]

42 minutes ago, rafaelservo said:

Has the newgen bug created only in loaded countries been fixed yet?

Could someone explain what this bug is? I'm just about to start a long term save.

[LucasBR]

1 minute ago, stevemc said:

Could someone explain what this bug is? I'm just about to start a long term save.

If you just loaded Spain Italy and England for exemple your game won't have newgens for other countries, will have only for these countries that you loaded.

[stevemc]

Just now, LucasBR said:

If you just loaded Spain Italy and England for exemple your game won't have newgens for other countries, will have only for these countries that you loaded.

Ahh I see, that's a pretty big bug - what about if other leagues are view-only and not just playable?

Second question to that, is why has my brother's FM21 team (3-4 years down the line) got a ton of Colombian wonderkid newgens, when he doesn't have any South American leagues loaded then?

[rafaelservo]

5 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

If you just loaded Spain Italy and England for exemple your game won't have newgens for other countries, will have only for these countries that you loaded.

Eu sou brasileiro também caralho, vamos falar em português nessa porra, hahahaha

[LucasBR]

1 minute ago, stevemc said:

Ahh I see, that's a pretty big bug - what about if other leagues are view-only and not just playable?

Second question to that, is why has my brother's FM21 team (3-4 years down the line) got a ton of Colombian wonderkid newgens, when he doesn't have any South American leagues loaded then?

I don't know about view-only leagues, but I suppose if you selected the league regardless what kind of detail level will have newgens beign generated but it's just a thought, maybe someone from the crew can confirm that for you.

[damjanovski]

Best Match Engine ever!!!

[rafaelservo]

24 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

I don't know about view-only leagues, but I suppose if you selected the league regardless what kind of detail level will have newgens beign generated but it's just a thought, maybe someone from the crew can confirm that for you.

Como a gente fala com alguém da equipe pra saber isso e saber se o patch de correção vai precisar começar um save novo?

[Daveincid]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb LucasBR:

I don't know about view-only leagues, but I suppose if you selected the league regardless what kind of detail level will have newgens beign generated but it's just a thought, maybe someone from the crew can confirm that for you.

view-only sadly still cause problems in newgen production 

[4football]

5 hours ago, FreezingTable said:

Why is this game year after year released with a lot of bugs? I love the game and want and KNOW it could be better.
I don’t feel the effort of delivering a good and functional game is there. It’s always half done work and the same problems accruing year after year.

 

Why release a new match engine that needs a lot of time to get to know each year, instead of using 1 match engine that’s known and can be upgraded?

 

Because they release semi functional game where you have to find some broken tactic like gegenpressing (and SI asks for more info, while more than enough info is provided. Example here: 

or try your luck by creating your own where players do not follow your instructions)

Then they get feedback. They try to fix most obvious and game breaking bugs. And then its time to work on new game.
You have to implement new UI and other useless for FM players things. Aren't you?

This is how modern software development cycles looks like
Specially in gamedev.
Make a game ASAP.
Releases version 1.0
And maybe after 30 patches it will be pretty good. Like Witcher 3 and i can bet Cyberpunk.

But in case of FM there will be new game and few minor patches and 1 or 2 major one. Not 30 because its time to make FM[current year + 1] game

I had a break for few years from FM.
Decided to come back after seeing that strikers can score some goals (at last).
And during beta it was a nice game. But after it looks like you got another game, even SI is betting nothing was changed
But in each FM there is a point where you know what gonna happen next just by seeing begging of the episode... 

[damjanovski]

1 minute ago, 4football said:

Because they release semi functional game where you have to find some broken tactic like gegenpressing (and SI asks for more info, while more than enough info is provided. Example here: 

or try your luck by creating your own where players do not follow your instructions)

Then they get feedback. They try to fix most obvious and game breaking bugs. And then its time to work on new game.
You have to implement new UI and other useless for FM players things. Aren't you?

This is how modern software development cycles looks like
Specially in gamedev.
Make a game ASAP.
Releases version 1.0
And maybe after 30 patches it will be pretty good. Like Witcher 3 and i can bet Cyberpunk.

But in case of FM there will be new game and few minor patches and 1 or 2 major one. Not 30 because its time to make FM[current year + 1] game

I had a break for few years from FM.
Decided to come back after seeing that strikers can score some goals (at last).
And during beta it was a nice game. But after it looks like you got another game, even SI is betting nothing was changed
But in each FM there is a point where you know what gonna happen next just by seeing begging of the episode... 

The full release is far better than the Beta.

[4football]

2 minutes ago, damjanovski said:

The full release is far better than the Beta.

And there were few more topics like this.

[damjanovski]

7 minutes ago, 4football said:

And there were few more topics like this.

I disagree completely. This version with few things that should be improved is much better than the Beta. One example: In the Beta the wingers and players in general did not dribble, or did it very rarely. Now it is much better.

As I said there are some things that should be improved like goalkeapers making too many assists, or defenders loose the attackers too easy but in general this is the best match engine that I played  in years.

[4football]

It is the best ME - yes i agree.
In beta with a same team I saw even more dribbles from my IF.

There is also a problem with players just hitting a ball straight into defender.
And with club vision
And transfers
And many other other things that are reported.

Edited December 8, 2020 by 4football

[damjanovski]

5 minutes ago, 4football said:

It is the best ME - yes i agree.
In beta with a same team I saw even more dribbles from my IF.

There is also a problem with players just hitting a ball straight into defender.
And with club vision
And transfers
And many other other things that are reported.

For me the match engine is the most important part of the game. Other things can be sorted, but the match engine is actually enjoyble this year.

[upthetoon]

43 minutes ago, 4football said:

Because they release semi functional game where you have to find some broken tactic like gegenpressing (and SI asks for more info, while more than enough info is provided. Example here: 

or try your luck by creating your own where players do not follow your instructions)

Then they get feedback. They try to fix most obvious and game breaking bugs. And then its time to work on new game.
You have to implement new UI and other useless for FM players things. Aren't you?

This is how modern software development cycles looks like
Specially in gamedev.
Make a game ASAP.
Releases version 1.0
And maybe after 30 patches it will be pretty good. Like Witcher 3 and i can bet Cyberpunk.

But in case of FM there will be new game and few minor patches and 1 or 2 major one. Not 30 because its time to make FM[current year + 1] game

I had a break for few years from FM.
Decided to come back after seeing that strikers can score some goals (at last).
And during beta it was a nice game. But after it looks like you got another game, even SI is betting nothing was changed
But in each FM there is a point where you know what gonna happen next just by seeing begging of the episode... 

It's just shocking that gegenpress is still not fixed. You can get insane success with a semi pro team just playing that way. 

It's like attributes are useless in the ME. There's no hit to their fitness short or long term and anyone can play it to perfection. 

[4football]

1 hour ago, upthetoon said:

It's just shocking that gegenpress is still not fixed. You can get insane success with a semi pro team just playing that way. 

It's like attributes are useless in the ME. There's no hit to their fitness short or long term and anyone can play it to perfection. 

Indeed.

Every youtuber makes his own "beast" tactic and it is almost the same for everybody
Guess what is it?

[Bakiano]

My GK has two assists in his three appaerances. 

[Tonton_Zola]

On 05/12/2020 at 12:27, imp44791 said:

A fantastic post that pre-empted some of what I wanted to write as a followup to my original "Former FM14 player gives opinion of FM21 after 6 year hiatus" post a few pages back. To which BTW I must make a correction: it turns out it IS possible to use your own photograph instead of the Ken Doll avatar. I had indeed uploaded it in the preferences but foolishly had not cleared my cache. So that's all sorted now, and the only time I get to guffaw at the ridiculousness of my supposed digital lookalike is at the launch screen. I can live with that.

But on to bigger matters. Reading all the wonderful posts here about the UI's problems and the post just quoted above on Market Analysis/QA I have to add the following broad (IMO) points.

1. Going beyond mere "immersion", which is in a weird way also what this move towards "3-D realism" is trying (and failing) to achieve: one of the greatest strengths of the CM/FM franchise is its addictiveness, built on top of a detailed imaginary world that players are led to form. An imaginary world were the player (with a day job and no direct experience of professional football other than shouting deprecation from the stands) gets to be a managerial alter ego, and where he gets to witness other stories by players he has probably never seen in real life. The poster's handle above says it all: who among us had actually seen Tonton Zola Moukoko, or Maxim Tsigkalko, or the other giants of those games other than on (to quote a Guardian article from a few years back) a dusty, kebab-stained 14'' monitor in a uni hall of residence in the 90s? And yet we're still talking about him, and he's even made the book on FM addiction (which of course I have). And it's not just 90s nostalgia speaking here: the other day I was almost moved when in my Pro Vercelli save I got to play another Serie C team where Tommaso Arrigoni was one of their main threats. I have never seen Arrigoni play, and I don't even know what he looks like IRL other than the cutout picture from the megapack. But in my FM14 save he was one of my great finds, driving that Pro Vercelli incarnation to Serie A and European football, whom the game itself suddenly called "the next Demetrio Albertini"! Heady stuff. By turning up in FM21, albeit in still humble circumstances made me wonder what may have happened to the real Arrigoni in those six years I was away from the game. I delved into his history, checking stats etc, and all the while spinning stories in my head of how he might fit in my current save.

But for this to happen, one must rattle off the seasons one after the other. The UI makes this frustrating and tiresome. I am not one of those people who get 20 game seasons in a month of real life playing, but I still need a few, running closely one after the other for this immersive effect to take place. Fighting the UI goes beyond mere "eye strain" (no small matter in itself) and makes the game become a chore. Having to click away to find the information I really want because the game (for instance) only lives and breathes the ridiculous xG stat as if it's a unit of divine grace without which all football salvation is impossible is frustrating. This is a game. It should not be work. If it becomes that, then I will play fewer seasons and then drop it. And then next year, if I find that out of stubbornness or whatever, the developer insists on shoving half-baked graphics, xG, media, manager avatars down my throat, then I will skip FM22 and perhaps take another 6 years before I dip my toe in the water again. 

No big deal, you tell me. One born every minute. There will be others who will replace one lost customer. True. But why lose me for any reason? I am only asking to have the option to play the old "spreadsheet game with updated database and tweaks to the ME". Others want to play 3D? Wonderful. Let them. But please, provide an option in the preferences with "UI=New FM21/Old Boring Spreadsheet Game" in them, and I will shut up and go away for ever. You still provide the option to play with the dots in 2D. You allow us to reskin the game. Can we please, as much as it's feasible from a programming point of view, get the 3-D backdrops excised if we want? It's not like you threw away the old code.

2. I mentioned "half baked", which brings me to the other main point. The problem with the 3D as it stands is not just that it annoys old farts like me. It's because it's half baked. Quarter baked to be accurate. I get this feeling that the original intent was to put little figures on those empty chairs, or around the locker room and have little speech bubbles over them but that when they tried it it looked ridiculous. I don't know of course, but I must say that the impression I get now is of a slapdash, thrown together effort at 3-D that may be the stepping stone to something more realistic 3-4 years down the line. But I'll tell you a secret folks: in 3-4 years, the sports games that depend on eye candy (The Show, FIFA, Madden etc) will have also moved ahead in tech. And the result will be that just as we're now laughing at seeing an early 90s graphical adventure backdrop in a game released in 2020, we may be laughing at the locker room depiction in 2024 even if the player Ken dolls are now sitting on those currently empty chairs.

Of course I may be wrong. There may be a miracle, and we eventually get this Platonic ideal of FIFA graphics with FM database and detail. But unless we get that miracle the result looks what someone with great experience and talent in something tries something else, completely outside their area of expertise. It looks unprofessional. Which is a terrible thing to say about a game franchise that is a byword for professionalism in so many things (the depth research, the attention to detail, etc). It's a shame, and neither the game, nor the developer deserve to be associated with the adjectives I used in this post: slapdash, unprofessional, stubborn. The achievement of this franchise is one of the greatest in gaming, combining the excitement of sports gaming with addictiveness of early Civilization games. This used to be a game we lost track of time playing and realising that it is daylight outside and we got to go to work. Can anyone honestly say that they still find themselves doing this after fighting with the game all the time? Clicking, searching for the Confirm button, clicking again, eyes wandering around the screen to find the information they are seeking, more clicking, avoiding annoying modules like the media, yet more clicking...

I doubt that anyone from the developer will either read this or care. But if they do, let me repeat. People like me are on your side. We love what you've achieved and we want more now and in the future. But that doesn't mean that what you decide is always right. This is one of those cases, I believe.

Enough. Let me crawl back under my rock for a few more years.

 

As a connected point, can I ask the million dollar question: why are the 3D graphics so poor?

 

I mean - I understand that the underlying AI and integration with the decision making engine is highly complex, but how does that relate to the outputted graphical render? As an experiment, could a graphics team not just build a ‘skin’ layer on top of what we’ve got that would look x times better? Even if it were running at a slight time delay or something? 

 

The above, very evidently, comes from somebody with no understanding of how these things work...but would love people’s thoughts on this. 

 

[LucasBR]

Why pretty much every first highlight is a long pass that my wingers/wing-backs can not reach?

[CaptCanuck]

10 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

Why pretty much every first highlight is a long pass that my wingers/wing-backs can not reach?

It's a palette cleanser that was in FM20 as well. They go from kickoff to first stoppage in play, so it tends to be some kind of ball into touch nonlight.

[Jimbokav1971]

Of all the things I dislike in FM21, I think what I dislike the most is the abbreviations of the team names. 

I might possibly have got used to it had the abbreviations been restricted to 3 letters as is often done on TV, (I wouldn't have liked it but it would have been ok), but to restrict 1 team to 2 letters and the other allowed to have 4 letters just looks rubbish. It's possibly because each team requires a unique abbreviation, but either way it's rubbish. 

[RinusFM]

I was wondering.. Does the ME simulate Feint-movements? My fullbacks always dribble dribble dribble and then either end up over the backline or shoot into the enemy to force a corner. I went them to feint or suddenly stop the ball and then pass. Seems its not coded or do the player needs lots of flair or so? Imho, even 'bad' players should do feint-movements, right?  

Edited December 8, 2020 by RinusFM

[CaptCanuck]

15 minutes ago, RinusFM said:

I was wondering.. Does the ME simulate Feint-movements? My fullbacks always dribble dribble dribble and then either end up over the backline or shoot into the enemy to force a corner. I went them to feint or suddenly stop the ball and then pass. Seems its not coded or do the player needs lots of flair or so? Imho, even 'bad' players should do feint-movements, right?  

There is currently something knackered in WB/W/FB play down the wings. They do sprint dribbles to the end line and turn in.

I am seeing some decent dribbling/touches/movement with the ball in the middle of the park out of my more offensive/flair oriented midfielders. So TBF I think it's in there, just that the wonky wide play overwrites it right now.

[jeff.fit82]

Hello friends!

Its the second time im asking...might be ignored, or no....i dont know...

but, i WOULD LIKE TO DISABLE this ANNOYING pop-up messages when someone scores, or there are some changes in the Tournment Table

HOW CAN I DISABLE IT?
We could disable it in EVERY VERSION...how to disable it in FM21?

[Tiger666]

9 minutes ago, jeff.fit82 said:

Hello friends!

Its the second time im asking...might be ignored, or no....i dont know...

but, i WOULD LIKE TO DISABLE this ANNOYING pop-up messages when someone scores, or there are some changes in the Tournment Table

HOW CAN I DISABLE IT?
We could disable it in EVERY VERSION...how to disable it in FM21?

I don't think you can.

[rafaelservo]

The newgen bug in non-selectable countries is really annoying. Is better to release in January than to release patch patches

[Junkhead]

46 minutes ago, rafaelservo said:

The newgen bug in non-selectable countries is really annoying. Is better to release in January than to release patch patches

So even though they might fix it in December, you would rather they just held off the full release until January?

I mean it's an annoying bug, but this seems a bit silly.

[LucasBR]

13 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

So even though they might fix it in December, you would rather they just held off the full release until January?

I mean it's an annoying bug, but this seems a bit silly.

I think he said he prefers to wait until January and have the game "completely functional" instead of releasing in November and having to wait for patches to correct these errors.

Edited December 8, 2020 by LucasBR

[kertiek]

30 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

So even though they might fix it in December, you would rather they just held off the full release until January?

I mean it's an annoying bug, but this seems a bit silly.

no they should not held the release until  January, but  could do a proper launch at November without making us feel like we are in a beta testing stage from November until some date in late December when they release the first big patch that maybe fixes some of the current problems affecting the game. 

why?

1.- release date was in November but  just focusing in the gameplay ( match engine ) feels as a improvement from fm20 but does not feel "complete" due to 3 annoying things:

• a.- insane amount of blocked crosses per game
• b.- lack of dribbles and feints, i rarely see actual feint animations compared to fm20
• c.- long balls from GK and defenders constantly bypassing the midfield  to the forwards, no matter what team instructions we set, they keep doing it.

2.- the changes to the match ui are more realistic, but whats the point of it, if the stats we are getting ... are not accurate at all?

3.- bug with regens making it hard to think of a longer save playthrough

4.- the constant demand of the moderators, QA and devs from Si games, telling us that we report the bugs in their respective subforum category, posting PKM's with time stamps and everything as detailed as possible, they rarely answer bug reports even when we take the time to do this and i hugely dont agree with the logic that the final users are responsable of doing this, most of the issues described before should be easily caught in a decent QA stage before even releasing the game to the final users. (am a software developer).

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by kertiek

[Pav_Makarov]

7 minutes ago, kertiek said:

the constant demand of the moderators, QA and devs from Si games, telling us that we report the bugs in their respective subforum category,

I logged topic in ME bugs subforum about assists from own half with all the pkms and two more users added to it with timestamps and their respective pkms. Not even a "not a bug, won't review"

I'm thinking that this version is the final one and we can start getting used to it