Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[MBarbaric]

40 minuti fa, darthlemon ha scritto:

The points highlighted I totally agree with.

 

The concern is that we're seeing so many missed one on ones (and I am of the belief that we see way too many) and side nets from impossible angles because if they tweaked these things, we would see hockey scorelines. And that obviously is part of a much bigger problem with the ME.

 

I don't see a great variety of goals. Mostly set pieces and crosses with some long shots mixed in. I do see a lot of hoofs over the top leading to one on ones that are missed. 

 

So the concern is that we're maxed out on 'organic' goals (i.e. a realistic number) and one on ones are made awful to keep them at that number. 

 

 

not sure I agree with the latter part, but it is disapointing to see how small number of people (contributing to this thread) actually understand that. I've counted two others on this forum beside you (one of them being the one you quoted. which obviously isn't a coincidence   ).  Anyway, SI is surely aware of this for years now. Therefore I am sure a part of the ME team spends at least some of their working hours developing new ME from ground up. So just keep tight and wait they announce it. In meanwhile, play whichever you prefere last 5 years. I only wish they would decide to completely cut out the ME from the game and release a Director of Football mode as a spin off since the rest of the game is getting better and better.

Edited December 2, 2019 by MBarbaric

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, darthlemon said:

The concern is that we're seeing so many missed one on ones (and I am of the belief that we see way too many) and side nets from impossible angles because if they tweaked these things, we would see hockey scorelines. And that obviously is part of a much bigger problem with the ME.

That's what I don't agree with actually. People tend to overrate the chances they have (and meanwhile Long before FM20 ignore how many of their SOT can be purely the difficult perennial Header under pressure from the set piece, etc. which the game has had more off than Football imo for a while.) We've actually HAD hockey scorelines consistently in the past. However, on that release, the Forwards were in actual space time and time again, and defenses easily overrun as depending on the duties picked, half a Team wouldn't track back to defend, but just park at the half way line.

This fix wasn't to make "keepers better" to Keep the scorelines "realistic" -- as was the suspicious in GD back then. The fix was making advanced Players defend again regardless of Duty. I agree About the final third decision making (side nets) naturally and that These guys are through on Goal too easily. Still, if the game were to be realistic, outside of tap-ins, extremely close range finishes and the like, even the best chances would be 50/50 Affairs for the most part at best. This is an Ultra low scoring Sports. And whilst commentary yells "HOW DID HE MISS THAT" at everything every week on any Football Show out there -- there's good reason for that.

If there's a type of Chance that is converted unrealistically low, (and it's happened in the past, which is why making that distinction between kinds of one on ones may be worthwile) -- it's so far Always happened as an accident. Maybe on FM 2020, history has repeated itself in parts. But to determine that, and to convince SI; we'd probably Need to dig a Little deeper than saying "1vs1 are NEVER scored" (which is obviously wrong anyways). Like apparently some guys did back then.
 

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Svenc

[baris28]

Even top teams not very capable of finding space and movement through the central. Although movement is very fast todays football that top teams are capable of everything- that It isn't represented well in FM- Do not know statistics well but I watch football around 30 years, it needs all round movement not only in wide play.

[ViG1980]

I love FM - playing since the 3.5" disk days (the first CM basically) and I am really enjoying FM2020 too. Agree with the issues people are posting on here, none are game-breaking although some do lower my enjoyment, and confident SI will mostly resolve them - won't be 100% to everyone's liking but that's not a realistic outcome anyway.

My big question is why is the match engine so slow to progress. I went back and looked 5 years back at the ME and where we are today is not 5 years in the making. It's like SI takes 3 steps forwards and 2 steps back every year with it. They're not starting from scratch every year (which would make no sense) so even if everything was iterative, we should see way more progress. I understand the knock-on effects changing a piece of code can have but there are engineering methods for all of this (this is no different to those building apps). Maybe the base code is so old at this point that every iteration's knock-on effects take an age to decipher and that brings up the question of whether to start a new code base but then I can only imagine the state of the ME with a new 1.0.

Graphics - they need a serious uptick. I don't play for the graphics but they add to the immersion big time for me. Not as high of a priority but would love to see better graphics here - better stadiums (the ability to have the community do them too), better player models, more and better animations, less skating, much better pitch effects etc.

[mick1]

Shame of this game, stand up, it's the only way

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

 I only wish they would decide to completely cut out the ME from the game and release a Director of Football mode as a spin off since the rest of the game is getting better and better.

Surely you could watch the games commentary only if you don't like watching the graphical representation of the match engine? 

[darthlemon]

2 hours ago, Svenc said:

That's what I don't agree with actually. People tend to overrate the chances they have (and meanwhile Long before FM20 ignore how many of their SOT can be purely the difficult perennial Header under pressure from the set piece, etc. which the game has had more off than Football imo for a while.) We've actually HAD hockey scorelines consistently in the past. However, on that release, the Forwards were in actual space time and time again, and defenses easily overrun as depending on the duties picked, half a Team wouldn't track back to defend, but just park at the half way line.

This fix wasn't to make "keepers better" to Keep the scorelines "realistic" -- as was the suspicious in GD back then. The fix was making advanced Players defend again regardless of Duty. I agree About the final third decision making (side nets) naturally and that These guys are through on Goal too easily. Still, if the game were to be realistic, outside of tap-ins, extremely close range finishes and the like, even the best chances would be 50/50 Affairs for the most part at best. This is an Ultra low scoring Sports. And whilst commentary yells "HOW DID HE MISS THAT" at everything every week on any Football Show out there -- there's good reason for that.

If there's a type of Chance that is converted unrealistically low, (and it's happened in the past, which is why making that distinction between kinds of one on ones may be worthwile) -- it's so far Always happened as an accident. Maybe on FM 2020, history has repeated itself in parts. But to determine that, and to convince SI; we'd probably Need to dig a Little deeper than saying "1vs1 are NEVER scored" (which is obviously wrong anyways). Like apparently some guys did back then.
 

 

I think we agree on a number of things but disagree on some  Obviously you don't believe there's an issue with one on ones, which is fair enough. I just see loads missed both from my players and AI.

With the one on one thing, assuming there's a problem, I don't think it's too much of a reach to believe that having players score fewer one on ones is a temporary measure to fixing a potential bigger, underlying issue in the defending. Or not yet tweaking the final third decision making till they understand why players are finding themselves in that advantageous position so often to begin with.

For example - a lot of the one on ones I've been seeing (which are usually missed) are usually results of long clumps up field which the defenders don't react to. Is that related to the pressing and defensive line settings they've implemented in the last couple of years? Maybe, maybe not. But when there's an issue, these are the things they'll need to understand better, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that they'd be hesitant to quick fix these issues for fear of the domino effect it could cause (i.e. the aforementioned hockey scorelines). 

Same with the players not passing it from bad angles. Everybody can agree we see lots of these, but if they were fixed tonight, what would final scores look like?

Edited December 3, 2019 by darthlemon

[MattStatto]

Haven't posted on this forum in years, but I decided to read up on it after experiencing issues with the red/orange regens and also about the whole one-on-one issue (and fullbacks shooting from the byline) which seemed to be plaguing my teams. Weirdly though, I've finally managed to get my team cohesion to nearly full (excellent) and we are playing a lot better. full backs/wingers aren't always shooting from ridiculous angles and are actually looking for smart cut backs and in general the match engine seems pretty good now our team has truly gelled together. Might not be the case for everyone but in my case it's certainly made a big difference and we're playing good quality football now. Maybe the threshold is too low for how poorly a team plays when the team cohesion is low/average, unless that's actually been done by design? I've not actually found it difficult to get a winning formula on this years' FM, it's just that my team doesn't score many goals, but in general we're pretty sound defensively.

Edited December 3, 2019 by MattStatto

[MBarbaric]

1 ora fa, darthlemon ha scritto:

I think we agree on a number of things but disagree on some  Obviously you don't believe there's an issue with one on ones, which is fair enough. I just see loads missed both from my players and AI.

With the one on one thing, assuming there's a problem, I don't think it's too much of a reach to believe that having players score fewer one on ones is a temporary measure to fixing a potential bigger, underlying issue in the defending. Or not yet tweaking the final third decision making till they understand why players are finding themselves in that advantageous position so often to begin with.

For example - a lot of the one on ones I've been seeing (which are usually missed) are usually results of long clumps up field which the defenders don't react to. Is that related to the pressing and defensive line settings they've implemented in the last couple of years? Maybe, maybe not. But when there's an issue, these are the things they'll need to understand better, and it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that they'd be hesitant to quick fix these issues for fear of the domino effect it could cause (i.e. the aforementioned hockey scorelines). 

Same with the players not passing it from bad angles. Everybody can agree we see lots of these, but if they were fixed tonight, what would final scores look like?

 

I believe we (users) can't really tell what exactly is wrong with the ME for few reasons.

First, reports people are making are not trustworthy. Partially due to users not really knowing what actually is a good chance in football as Svenc says, and partially due to not being able to tell if there is a problem with the graphical representation of the ME. Basically only SI can tell and only if they get PKM's.

Second problem is the sheer number of 1v1's. Frequently I see people reporting good examples where players do what is expected. However, those who report these don't account the situation they are taken from. Mostly they are from counter attacks which are quite different thing compared to positional attacks. before someone jumps on me, I am well aware in real those happen more regularly from counter attacks, but we have no way of comparing stats. Only SI can do that and I hope they don't use the in game analysis as that is bugged for at least two years now. Then, as you mention, there are those long clearances from the back that lead to 1on1s. But again, we have no way of getting meaningful number of stats from the game to actually make any conclusion. 

Third problem is that people report the consequences. i.e. shooting in side netting being too frequent. We can assume there's something wrong with it due to sheer numbers. However, it might not be problem in shots taken as much as why they actually happen, actions that lead to them. Is there a problem with defending, dribbling, decision making...? For example, not so long ago there was a thread where users were discussing if the "pressing forward" should have hard coded hard tackling or not. That is completely silly as there is no "pressing forward". The team either presses or it doesn't. You can't have a pressing forward, you need a pressing team, the least problem is if he has hard tackling or not (btw, no, he doesn't need it  ).

Only SI knows how the ME really stands in this regard. From my experience, I can only say there are huge problems in the way the space is created. This is already evident and will become more obvious in the future  as more teams play from the back. To play from the back, players need to know where to be in relation to their team mates, they constantly need to change positions, know which spaces to vacate and who needs to fill those vacated spaces in order to create passing lane.

As the game is designed currently (roles,TI's) there simply are no  mechanisms that would replicate that in any coherent way. Each role does its own thing disregarding team mates. So if it isn't possible in the defensive third, how can it be possible in the attacking third where the spaces are much tighter. That is why I think SI is already developing new ME for some time and it won't be long till we see what comes next. In meanwhile, enjoy what you have. 

 

[Rakosi]

The ME is definitely broken in some very key ways.  I will not be buying FM next year.  I am getting pretty tired of paying for this game only to not really be able to sink my time and effort into a near final version of the ME until February or whenever they get most of the patching done.  I feel like this is a pretty fair response to having dodgy ME's being released at launch; I shouldn't have to pay to beta test a game on release.

Shots into side netting is obviously a problem- if you don't notice the problem yourself then you have a tactical set up that isn't getting your players into these positions with these intentions.  Changing tactical set ups to avoid it is not a fix because no player IRL would ever play this way, so it should not be a thing that we have to jury rig a solution for in the ME.

Dribbling and balls over the top are way, way, way overpowered.  Defenders, particularly center backs are utterly paralyzed by an onrushing attacker.  The only interceptions they ever seem to have a chance of making is when the striker fails his ball control and takes too heavy a touch.  I have had Harry Kane dribble through (as in clipping through the players) two midfielders (who were on top of each other pressing him) then dribbling between two center backs who stood there and watched him go by only to finally start running once they'd given him a healthy head start.  Defending is completely broken and it does make this game unplayable to me.  For the sake of the pedants; unplayable in the sense that it is buggy, inconsistent, unresponsive to what I'm asking my players to do and unrealistic (not that the game.exe doesn't work).  Check out my defenders in the first half of the attached match.  Don't worry too much about the tactic; I'm just testing some stuff.  I am not, however, telling my center backs to be completely useless.  They're doing that all by themselves.

I'm sure these all will be fixed in the future but when I pay for a game in November I want to be able to play it in November.

Leicester v Newcastle.pkm

Edited December 3, 2019 by Rakosi
grammar

[Delvi]

The main complain I have about FM is the release date. We all know that the game after the third patch, which will be in March, will be almost perfect and a joy to play. The "problem" is that for 90% of players (European, Asian and North Americans) the League IRL are in their third quarter and the spring is coming. Speaking for myself, I enjoy playing during winter, but when there is good weather I play much less, plus in september/october I'm really excited about football, new season etc. and I think is the same for all people living in UK, France, Germany, Spain etc.

My proposal is to have FM 2021 out in March: 6 months to patch the ME, September to change new rules for Leagues and update the transfer markets...and a final product in the beginning of October, ready for starting a long term save.

[forameuss]

12 hours ago, rp1966 said:

I'm sure they have, but an outsider doesn't know whether the decisions have been taken on a technical basis, just to avoid extra costs, or being too risk averse to carry out a thorough (new generation) update.

The ME is obviously the key thing that needs to be consistent across the series, but there should be much greater scope to improve the presentation (of the matches and elsewhere) on higher spec machines without fragmenting the base. 

The game is slipping backwards year on year compared to other games. There is a point where a game feels too last generation even for diehard players (Sim City 4 died long before a worthy contender for the city builder crown appeared).

On the first part, yes, of course someone outside of the company doesn't know for sure, but it's easy to infer.  "Risk averse" is a particularly negative way of putting something that needn't be.  One risk of moving on is, as we've mentioned, possibly blocking off a big market of low spec machines.  Is that worth the risk to do in the hope that new sales make up for it?  Likely not.  That's not being risk averse, that's being sensible and reacting to risk.  I'd also imagine that SI have largely tapped out the market.  I'm not convinced there's this big market of people who are both interested in football management games, but aren't buying FM for a reason that SI are going to fix.  If that makes sense.  There's the odd one, and improvements will always lead new people to the product, but I'd imagine losing a big chunk of people who, let's face it, buy largely blind each year, is not a good thing.

The second part, I'd agree with if it's possible.  If there's a way to improve that for higher spec machines without sacrificing the low-end, then brilliant.  I'm just imagining that it's nowhere near that simple, otherwise they would've done it.

The third part, I really disagree with though.  What does "compared to other games" even mean?  To be honest, you can't compare it to any other game.  Closest is what, FIFA?  And that's hardly a bed of roses.

FM has moved forward with every release.  The problem is that that "forward" is relative to where SI want it to go.  Just because it has moved forward doesn't mean it hasn't moved further away from what an individual user wants it to be.

[Rakosi]

2 minutes ago, Delvi said:

The main complain I have about FM is the release date. We all know that the game after the third patch, which will be in March, will be almost perfect and a joy to play. The "problem" is that for 90% of players (European, Asian and North Americans) the League IRL are in their third quarter and the spring is coming. Speaking for myself, I enjoy playing during winter, but when there is good weather I play much less, plus in september/october I'm really excited about football, new season etc. and I think is the same for all people living in UK, France, Germany, Spain etc.

My proposal is to have FM 2021 out in March: 6 months to patch the ME, September to change new rules for Leagues and update the transfer markets...and a final product in the beginning of October, ready for starting a long term save.

I understand what you're saying but a lot of us don't want to be buying a game that isn't 100% ready anymore.  Why are we having to wait months for a fixed version every year when they have our money already?  If I hear one more SI person say "well, the ME is very complicated so..."

That excuse isn't accepted in any other part of our lives.  Imagine if your car was in the garage for 4 months and the mechanics just kept saying "well, actually, automobiles are very complicated and if we repair the engine then the windows might start going up and down by themselves".

Check out the striker movement in these last two matches, or more particularly, the utter lack of defensive movement.  Strikers seem to know with pinpoint precision exactly where a pass is gonna end up whereas the defender, whether set to mark that player or not, has nowhere near as good anticipation and just seems to jog after the striker.

Leicester v Newcastle2.pkm Leicester v Newcastle3.pkm

[Delvi]

8 minuti fa, Rakosi ha scritto:

I understand what you're saying but a lot of us don't want to be buying a game that isn't 100% ready anymore.  Why are we having to wait months for a fixed version every year when they have our money already?  If I hear one more SI person say "well, the ME is very complicated so..."

That excuse isn't accepted in any other part of our lives.  Imagine if your car was in the garage for 4 months and the mechanics just kept saying "well, actually, automobiles are very complicated and if we repair the engine then the windows might start going up and down by themselves".

Check out the striker movement in these last two matches, or more particularly, the utter lack of defensive movement.  Strikers seem to know with pinpoint precision exactly where a pass is gonna end up whereas the defender, whether set to mark that player or not, has nowhere near as good anticipation and just seems to jog after the striker.

Leicester v Newcastle2.pkm 166 kb · 0 downloads Leicester v Newcastle3.pkm 168 kb · 0 downloads

I am 44 yo, so I started to play videogames in the 80s. Until 2000s, there weren't patch or things like that: you buy the product and that's it, without fixes, balancing and so on...

Now we are in 2019 and there are dedicated forums: the users share opinions, describe issues, the game is fixed and polished. This is not happening only for FM, I'm an avid player of Civilization and the game is patched every 4-5 months, with balancing...and it gets better. This is even more dramatic for Paradox games, where patching happens even more often.

FM 2020 is a complex game, the ME is complex, balancing is crucial to have the product enjoyable and the company needs some months of feedback from users for patching the game, polishing and balancing it. They are really smart guys at SI, but no one has a magic stick.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Delvi

[glennfryers]

In general a really good game and a fair upgrade to last year.

I like the in depth tactical ability.

What I don't like is the same things as usual:

1. Offside has always been a problem, how can a player (mine or opposition) be offside on the 18 yard box when the opposition player is on the byline? I have seen numerous goals disallowed for offside because of this.

Another offside issue is, I have seen multiple goals allowed from offside positions (obvious offsides mainly)

I have seen multiple offside goals disallowed for onside positions claimed as offside when it is obvious either inline with the last defender or ball side of the defender.

2. In game tactics, no matter what I set my team tactics to nothing changes, if I set to passing with work ball into box they shoot from anywhere around 30 yards out multiple times per game, if I select to shoot on site it is the same, If I select early crosses they shoot. 

Cross at the byline can be selected but they cross from anywhere but the byline.

The tactics don't always apply to in game matches no matter what you choose.

3. Shooting, can you explain how a team with some of the best players in the world have 50+ shots against a league 1 team, score just one goal, the keeper "saves" over 20 shots and only gets a rating of 6.9. I have seen teams have no less than 25 shots per game multiple times with between 0 and 2 goals scored with the best strikers in the world...this makes NO sense at all and I just don't understand it. 

Can you also explain how when a player has a shot, it clearly comes off the GK but the team gets a goalkick?

Can you also explain why FB runs the pitch has 2-4 players waiting for the cross, he is virtually at the by line with no angle to shoot but shoots? (This is the biggest frustration of this game).

4. Tackling, this is poor STILL. I have seen players sent off for being "the last man" when, their co player is stood next to them. This does not make sense at all.

The tackling is generally poor as too many penalties are given for tackles that are obviously not penalties.

5. Penalty taking. This is ridiculous, I have counted an average of 4 out of 5 penalties are missed. This is a shocking stat. for someone with a shooting rating of 16+ and penalty ability of 15+ to miss an average of 4/5 penalties is shocking. 

Those are the only bad points about it. Every year it improves but the offside side of it never does. This year the shooting, penalties and tackling have gone massively down hill.

[eric.van.der.haegen1]

Playing with RSC Anderlecht.....i have 1 remark....player Kana is in the game a WHITE player.....in real life it's a DARK player.....is there someone who can colour the player?

[Steve8066]

2 hours ago, Rakosi said:

 

I'm sure these all will be fixed in the future but when I pay for a game in November I want to be able to play it in November.

Agreed. Ive already binned 20 off until its patched (not holding my breath for the 1st patch to actually fix anything). I know for certain that I will never pay full price for any future versions of FM, its simply a waste of money when quite frankly 20 is 6 months away from been a fixed quality product imo.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, eric.van.der.haegen1 said:

Playing with RSC Anderlecht.....i have 1 remark....player Kana is in the game a WHITE player.....in real life it's a DARK player.....is there someone who can colour the player?

This should be raised in the Belgium Data Issues forum please.

[HUNT3R]

Have removed the last few posts because it's completely off-topic. Feedback on the game, please.

[saihtam]

2 hours ago, Delvi said:

The main complain I have about FM is the release date. We all know that the game after the third patch, which will be in March, will be almost perfect and a joy to play. The "problem" is that for 90% of players (European, Asian and North Americans) the League IRL are in their third quarter and the spring is coming. Speaking for myself, I enjoy playing during winter, but when there is good weather I play much less, plus in september/october I'm really excited about football, new season etc. and I think is the same for all people living in UK, France, Germany, Spain etc.

My proposal is to have FM 2021 out in March: 6 months to patch the ME, September to change new rules for Leagues and update the transfer markets...and a final product in the beginning of October, ready for starting a long term save.

Here comes huge issue also what is going into bad loop the bast few years. You would expect constant development on upcoming year version. But if you get your ME for FM20 example to work properly in start of year or even in spring, then you have so much less time to develope FM21. + you need to make all those changes into the FM20 ME and make it work with new features ongoing etc. Then hits summer vacations, FM20 people want vacation from bug fixes etc. So in the end we will see unbalanced ME again in FM21

[Bakiano]

Hope they will release the update soon. The game can be played but it is not entertaining anymore. 

 

 

[Rwilliams90]

Tried knap's 'Sympathy for the Devil' tactic and played a few games with it.

It seems to have solved the issue of blasting the ball into the side netting and players are now cutting the ball back from the byline. My strikers are now scoring goals whereas before they weren't even involved in the game.

It encourages a style of football that I really don't want to play and I'd rather tinker with my own tactics, but it's making the ME experience bearable.

I do still think it's a bug with certain formations though.

[TheInvisibleMan]

11 minutes ago, Rwilliams90 said:

Tried knap's 'Sympathy for the Devil' tactic and played a few games with it.

It seems to have solved the issue of blasting the ball into the side netting and players are now cutting the ball back from the byline. My strikers are now scoring goals whereas before they weren't even involved in the game.

It encourages a style of football that I really don't want to play and I'd rather tinker with my own tactics, but it's making the ME experience bearable.

I do still think it's a bug with certain formations though.

Can you post a screenshot of the instructions?

[jc1]

I manages to get wingers/IF and wingbacks crossing or cutting the ball back better by with PI of shoot less, it seems to work better.  My few little gripes still are too many penalties,  sometimes 4 per game, 1v1's with AI and my strikers having the intelligence and movement of an amateur 45 year old and players low ratings.

Edited December 3, 2019 by jc1

[emil_sbn]

when is the ETA for new ME update days weeks? anyone else noticing that during throw ins players throw the ball straight to the opponent?

[Johnny Ace]

8 minutes ago, emil_sbn said:

when is the ETA for new ME update days weeks? anyone else noticing that during throw ins players throw the ball straight to the opponent?

Yes, there''s a post of the ME Bug board, feel free too add PKMs 

[Rwilliams90]

 

30 minutes ago, TheInvisibleMan said:

Can you post a screenshot of the instructions?

Here you go.

 

No shots into the side netting and weirdly a much higher % of 1v1s are being scored by both teams.

 

I am scoring a crazy amount of goals per game now though and the opposition are scoring a lot of ridiculous OGs.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Rwilliams90

[Dagenham_Dave]

All that tactic is, is one of the few this year that exploits the match engine code. That would never work in real life, particularly at that level. It's good that there doesn't seem to be as many of these this year, but they're still there. I have a very straightforward, logical tactic in my current save, and I hardly see any of the main issues mentioned. 

[andu1]

I still think this ME is better than FM 19 and overall with some improvements in the next updates will be the best in the series.  Yeah, the elite strikers don't score as much as IRL or there are too many shots by wide players but it's enjoyable for me without the need to compare every number with Real life statistics.

[Mitja]

3 minutes ago, andu1 said:

I still think this ME is better than FM 19 and overall with some improvements in the next updates will be the best in the series.  Yeah, the elite strikers don't score as much as IRL or there are too many shots by wide players but it's enjoyable for me without the need to compare every number with Real life statistics.

Defenetely. But I must say that currently games feel boring and very repetaive. Goals variaty needs big improvement, otherwise yes ME is very solid until final third.

 

[Mitja]

18 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

All that tactic is, is one of the few this year that exploits the match engine code. That would never work in real life, particularly at that level. It's good that there doesn't seem to be as many of these this year, but they're still there. I have a very straightforward, logical tactic in my current save, and I hardly see any of the main issues mentioned. 

How do you know it exploits ME? I've seen similar attacking tactics from AI, with 5 attack duties.

[andu1]

Just now, Mitja said:

Defenetely. But I must say that currently games feel boring and very repetaive. Goals variaty needs big improvement, otherwise yes ME is very solid until final third.

 

I agree that top strikers are not involved that much and SI need to find a way to improve their movement and finishing touches without ruining the overall balance of the ME. It's tricky but i think they can do it.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

One thing I'd like changing is the 'key attributes' selection or the comparison selection to move some of the midfield positions over into the attacking positions.

 

Inside Forward for example, should count as an attacker and not a midfield position if you ask me.

[ChrisCo]

1 hour ago, Rwilliams90 said:

 

Here you go.

 

No shots into the side netting and weirdly a much higher % of 1v1s are being scored by both teams.

 

I am scoring a crazy amount of goals per game now though and the opposition are scoring a lot of ridiculous OGs.

 

 

Did you create this purposefully as an exploit? I can't make sense of it otherwise.

Pass into space + work ball into box?

Those roles on the wing + duties are absolutely kamikaze.

Team could end up with two players back when counter attacked.... and this is just at a quick glance.

[Dagenham_Dave]

 

20 minutes ago, Mitja said:

How do you know it exploits ME? I've seen similar attacking tactics from AI, with 5 attack duties.

 

5 minutes ago, ChrisCo said:

Did you create this purposefully as an exploit? I can't make sense of it otherwise.

Pass into space + work ball into box?

Those roles on the wing + duties are absolutely kamikaze.

Team could end up with two players back when counter attacked.... and this is just at a quick glance.

Just for starters. 

[Mitja]

3 minutes ago, andu1 said:

I agree that top strikers are not involved that much and SI need to find a way to improve their movement and finishing touches without ruining the overall balance of the ME. 

They stay in the box once the ball is in final third, all they need to do let them shift to and support wide positions, where they can create overloads and play one-two's with others. Like in fm17. I think even bigger problem is nobody passes forward to them even when there is option. Not only strikers movement is problem but wide forwards too. Support duty forwards should try to seek the ball much more, currently there's little difference between attack and support duty forwards. And then player attributes and PPMs should decide how good player is at opening and what kind of support he makes. Fullbacks are too effective with off the ball and on the ball runs. There's no difference between best and avarage FB.  

[Mikke]

18 hours ago, Rwilliams90 said:

A season and a half in and it's become unplayable for me. I thought it was maybe down to my tactics/players that my strikers have no involvement in the game and my wingers and full-backs keep smashing the ball into the side netting. It's been doing my nut in trying to work around this - signing full backs based on their crossing stats etc - so it's actually a relief to come on here and read that it's happening to everyone.

It's definitely not happening to everyone.

So far in my game my team has 12 goals from 6 competitive matches, and 7 of those have been by strikers. And in all of these 6 matches I have seen exactly one shot into the side netting from the byline, and in that one lonely incident my player had absolutely no one to pass to.

I didn't have to do any magic tricks to make this happen, my tactic is almost out-of-the-box 4-4-2 wing play. Maybe I'm just lucky and this tactic suits my team, because I see cut-backs from the byline all the time, sometimes even in situations where shooting would perhaps be a better option...

 

[andu1]

Some of the naming of the standard tactics make me scratch my head. Why is the standard 4-3-3 named 4-1-2-3_ DM wide. Or the 4-2-3-1 with 2 DM's named 4-2-3-1_DM AM wide.

Can you just name the standard tactics 4-3-3_DM or 4-2-3-1-DM ? It's also a nightmare finding them in the editor...

[Mitja]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Just for starters. 

I've seen very similar stuff from AI. Yes there's one attack duty too much and no balance with role selection otherwise, I don't know. Pass into space + work ball into box is also in Gegenpress preset so...

[Mitja]

I see very little difference in play between when I pass into space or no. In fm17 it the difference was really noticable in play. Now it seems it only increases passes from one flank to other and it looks odd.

[ChrisCo]

6 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Pass into space + work ball into box is also in Gegenpress preset so...

Doesn't mean its a good idea/tactically sound even if it is.

[Mitja]

6 minutes ago, ChrisCo said:

Doesn't mean its a good idea/tactically sound even if it is.

I don't agree. Pass into space is aproach play instruction and WTBIB final third that reduces crossing and shooting. Not related at all. I might agree it's not best to combine with higher line but even that might not be the case. And it's a question how much passing into space even works in this ME..

Edited December 3, 2019 by Mitja

[ChrisCo]

Just now, Mitja said:

I don't agree. Pass into space is aproach play instruction and WTBIB final third that reduces crossing and shooting. Not related at all. I might agree it's not best to combine with higher line but even that might not be the case.

Fair enough if it works for you.

For me though, if you're working ball into the box this implies you want your players to take their time and work intricate passes to break down the opponent. Getting someone to lump a pass to a player in space (most likely a wide player away from the box) contradicts this, but hey ho.

[craigcwwe]

1 hour ago, Rwilliams90 said:

 

Here you go.

 

No shots into the side netting and weirdly a much higher % of 1v1s are being scored by both teams.

 

I am scoring a crazy amount of goals per game now though and the opposition are scoring a lot of ridiculous OGs.

 

 

Needs more TIs.

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, Mitja said:

I don't agree. Pass into space is aproach play instruction and WTBIB final third that reduces crossing and shooting. Not related at all. I might agree it's not best to combine with higher line but even that might not be the case. And it's a question how much passing into space even works in this ME..

 

3 minutes ago, ChrisCo said:

Fair enough if it works for you.

For me though, if you're working ball into the box this implies you want your players to take their time and work intricate passes to break down the opponent. Getting someone to lump a pass to a player in space (most likely a wide player away from the box) contradicts this, but hey ho.

WBIB has direct and indirect consequences when used.  Direct consequences are an intended reduction in crossing and shooting.  The knock on effect (indirect consequence) is a reduction in through ball attempts - less chances being created, less shots, less through balls.  Pass into space = more through balls, so the two instructions can absolutely be related and difficult to combine properly.

22 minutes ago, Mitja said:

I've seen very similar stuff from AI.

4 flank players with an attack duty + attacking mentality and all those TI's?  We never see TIs, are there still skins which show AI roles & duties that you're using?  I'd like to see some examples of this similar stuff and when it's employed by the AI (ultra attacking at the end of a game?)

[Glenn Wakeford]

Take a look at Steam...

 

[ChelseaFan]

Finally.

I can start playing again

[craigcwwe]

- Less shots from the byline
- Improvements to finishing in clear-cut-chance situations
- Improved through ball decisions in final third

 

[andu1]

 

1 minute ago, craigcwwe said:

- Less shots from the byline
- Improvements to finishing in clear-cut-chance situations
- Improved through ball decisions in final third

 

I hope this doesn't inflate the scorelines too much

[glosoli]

Perfect! Many thanks to the folks at SI!