Join the Football Manager 2019 Public Beta today!

[Domathon]

pretty much every game for 16 games now im conceding from outside the box mostly absolute wonder goals (lol) , could be the tactics im sure i will see in replies but i believe this me is poor, not as poor as official mind you, still playable just about ish i guess meh, im out for a while. thats is as toned down as i can make my dissapointemnt without being a troll. SI much work to be done here.

 

 

:/

[ZimmermanPT]

1 minuto atrás, Domathon disse:

pretty much every game for 16 games now im conceding from outside the box mostly absolute wonder goals (lol) , could be the tactics im sure i will see in replies but i believe this me is poor, not as poor as official mind you, still playable just about ish i guess meh, im out for a while. thats is as toned down as i can make my dissapointemnt without being a troll. SI much work to be done here.

 

 

:/

Same, I just lost 3-1 at home and the opposition had 20 shots, 16 from long distance and scored 3 goals from long-distance.

Seems broken on that aspect. 

[Domathon]

its every game for me but am i playing a risky 433 , im in january in my first season lost interest in this save completely sad to say  and starting going on holiday for away games, once u start doing that you might as well take a break (stop playing the save)

[Mitja]

37 minutes ago, Mitja said:

and AI current match mentality (which mentality will be used?) is influenced by Sitting Back attribute? which meens we're spinning in circles. my point is that ''normal'' mentality tactics set by researchers would give those teams bigger chance of getting something out of game and it would keep normal statistics. also the way such tactics are played in ME would never happen irl. defensive Newcastle would never be able to outpass City and in FM it happens only because of too defensive AI tactics. those 100+ crossing attempts are happening only because of too defensive and narrow AI tactics. all proved.  ''normal'' vs ''normal'' tactics produce normal results and stats. this is not even ME issue.

without even looking in editor i'm sure all the managers of lesser teams have high Sitting Back attributes. and that's the only ''bug''. 

Let's Play Pig In The Middle tactics is too easily triggered, no team in EPL would ever try that with top teams (or any other).

such tactics and formations usually have extra man or two in the middle of pitch than normal formations which will in turn also have one to three players in AM starta on attack duty not doing defending particulary well. this is ME issue, partly. and major reason why possession stats are opposite to what they should be.

[yonko]

21 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

People act like there isn't a private beta that has done, and continues to do far more work than anything on the public beta so far. The entitlement from some here, today in particular is unbelievable. No, Neil is unlikely to pm you, because he's frankly got better things to do than justify himself to people who neither appreciate or understand what he is SI does. I wouldn't be surprised if frankly next year there isn't a public beta and they simply add more people to the private beta. 

I also won't be surprised if in fact you hear less from Neil and Co in these threads, because it's actually been of zero benefit for them to engage with this community, especially today. 

Help because you want to. Not because you feel it entitles you demand things of others.

People always want to hear more from SI. Always asking: why don't they interact more? Read the last two pages and tell me why it's worth it for them, culminating in someone telling Neil he's detached from reality because he disagrees with Neil's view.

Listening, respect and dialogue goes both ways, and frankly some of you would do well to take some of your own advice. 

It's not entitlement to pay for something and expect it to work.

If the product we paid for works, there won't be need for public beta. 

This happens every year now. This year is one of the worse though. 

The ME is the core and essence of the game. It has major and multiple problems this edition. This makes me question the team of employees they have, especially for testing.

If you go to a restaurant and the meal is not cooked properly, does the cook ask you to help cook it better/more? Or would you do it voluntarily?

If you buy a car and it doesn't run properly/has problems, does the dealership ask you to help fix it? Or would you do it voluntarily?

Would you go to the same restaurant again? Would buy from the same brand/dealership again?

I can't speak for others, but I've stayed very loyal to SI throughout all the years - every CM and every FM edition. And I've had enough patience and understanding. But everything has its limits. This year is my limit.

If they don't pay attention and address that, then it's their loss....more so than mine. I can try and help them by voicing my opinion, no matter how much they or you may not like it.

It is what it is.

[Mensell76]

Okay I am going to be a big boy here in front all of you and I am kindly asking the MODS to not delete this message this time, since I am merely aiming to provide context as to why things derailed a bit on my part. I will try to respectfully be reflective both on myself as the community around me and I really hope SI and @Neil Brock will find the time to read this post:

1. @Neil Brock:

My sincere apologies for my poor choice of words regarding the "losing touch with reality". It goes without saying that those words were used only in a relation to football and nothing but football. Next to that, please know that when I speak in the "you" form I of course am not directing my words directly at you but at the company you so eloquently represent. Being in a support job myself I haven gotten used to people making things personal when they of course are unleashing at my company, but it is never fun to deal with. I do find it regretable to read that my words were being taken out of context later on in the discussion. But nevertheless I should have redacted myself better before eagerly punching the submit button. There were many ways of getting my point across and I choose a poor one.

2. @themadsheep2001 who infracted me yesterday: you were right in doing so because of my choice of words. It is not your job to provide the right context, I should have been more careful. I do hope you will also weigh your words more carefully when you are defending SI, because your words sometimes tend to provoke just as much action-reaction as mine;

3: A big part of the reason I reacted the way I did comes from the reaction to fellow testers and myself in a thread on the feature requests forum. Let me be clear, I am not saying this to stir things up, I am again only providing context. I know how hard some of us work in our spare time to help SI in their aim to deliver a fantastic FM19 ME, which we have always believed to be very much on the cards. The harsh and open truths that were laid out to us in said thread were a bit of a kick in the teeth. After just having put in some hard grinding work on the latest ME update, the reactions in that thread were demoralising and made me question why I decided to put in all the hours of work. And indeed it was the first time that I felt it would have been nice to at least been acknowledged by SI itself for the work we had put in. Every volunteer naturally wants to see validation of their work, instead of having to learn your input is quite insignificant in comparison to what the people behind the curtains have been doing and more importantly have already known for quite some time.

4. During my infraction I read the reactions of some vocal people who do not like the way SI has been treated and state this thread is meant for feedback on the game. Honestly I do find some of those reactions towards us to be just as unconstructive. I don't think for one second I am entitled (entitlement has become such a  trending word when writing about us) to be criticising SI just because I have put in the hours of logging issues in the bugs forums. But at least I have done just that and by doing so, in a very cooperative and clear way might I add, I am precisely the sort of person SI targetted for this public beta. Can everyone who has been criticising us say the same thing (just a rhetorical question, not meant to start a new discussion)?

5. To end on a positive note, In the last few days we have been having productive and forthcoming feedback from several SI employees to the issues we have spotted and documented in the Public Beta ME forum. I am glad to see this sort of vice versa communication taking shape which is one of the key points I have been very vocal about. Debates on issues between SI and the testers is vital to create added value of the public beta for both parties involved.  And hopefully by doing so we create the synergy that SI of course intended when opening the public beta.

Cheers all!

 

[RocheBag]

3 hours ago, XaW said:

So much for Attacking never working, eh?

 

I didn't say anything even relatively close to that, but carry on.

[Marc Duffy]

Some good constructive posts here, some not so amazing - but passion and commitment from those participating in the public and private beta is is appreciated greatly by the whole SI team. We sometimes have to accept we come at some topics from different perspectives but we have a shared goal. I believe we all want to make the very best game that gives the maximum enjoyment.

The ME has always been an emotive subject, many (i'd be brave enough to say the majority) who play the game enjoy it without any knowledge of issues. We're well aware there can be issues and we'll continue to do our best to take onboard feedback, log it (if we dont already have it logged) and fix. It's complex code, some things are easy to solve, some things are long term projects  but whenever me make any kind of change we have to try and balance across a variety of different criteria - sometimes we dont get it all right however I am still confident, on balance, that it remains a solid representation of football.

19.2 is not far away from official launch. I'm going to ask the SI team to back out of this thread for a short while to let the dust settle a bit. We view this optional public beta as a positive (there have been well over 1000 of you who participated), we thank you for your involvement. I know some of you disagree with such a beta, but it's a policy we're going to continue with and we would love for you to continue to help us. 

Thankyou!

[Mitja]

i gave thumbs up but hope 19.2 being not far from release meens week or two at least. very few of major issues were fixed, some are even worse than ever before like crossing.

[FrazT]

Ok- in the light of all the comments raised so far in this thread and specifically  @Marc Duffy's post above, can I now ask that we start afresh with this thread.

If you have raised an issue and have mentioned it in here, let's move on and not repeat it over and over.  If you have criticism of the game, by all means, raise them but please do it constructively in line with the forum rules and not make it personal to the developers, researchers or testers.

Threads like this can and do serve a positive purpose and are appreciated by the developers but posts that do not abide by the forum rules will not be accepted and will be dealt with from here.

[SazoJohnno]

Just want to come here and say good work so far SI. I have been involved in public beta from probably day one and apart from the some issues that I have found, I have really thoroughly enjoyed the beta despite knowing that one nasty bug could highly likely put the spanner of my years work in Ajax. But it hasn't. 

I am a huge fan of a new policy, which is a public beta, and hope you would consider to continue it yearly. 

I will continue to drop any issues into bug section whenever/if I find any. Keep up good work and sending you good vibes. 

[pats]

6 hours ago, Mitja said:

i gave thumbs up but hope 19.2 being not far from release meens week or two at least. very few of major issues were fixed, some are even worse than ever before like crossing.

You can never avoid crossing. It's a tactic any team is able to play any time they want IRL as well as in FM. IRL many teams choose not to play this tactic as modern football is more about passing and movement. In FM however, teams choose to go more direct due to limitations in match engine and/or the AI manager logic.

I understand your frustration and passion but imo you need to get over it and move on instead of repeating yourself again and again in this thread. If a wide player is in space and you have asked him to cross early, it can not be coded to not cross. It looks ridiculous just like it was in the first public beta version where the dwelling on the ball was introduced.

[pats]

6 hours ago, Marc Duffy said:

Some good constructive posts here, some not so amazing - but passion and commitment from those participating in the public and private beta is is appreciated greatly by the whole SI team. We sometimes have to accept we come at some topics from different perspectives but we have a shared goal. I believe we all want to make the very best game that gives the maximum enjoyment.

The ME has always been an emotive subject, many (i'd be brave enough to say the majority) who play the game enjoy it without any knowledge of issues. We're well aware there can be issues and we'll continue to do our best to take onboard feedback, log it (if we dont already have it logged) and fix. It's complex code, some things are easy to solve, some things are long term projects  but whenever me make any kind of change we have to try and balance across a variety of different criteria - sometimes we dont get it all right however I am still confident, on balance, that it remains a solid representation of football.

19.2 is not far away from official launch. I'm going to ask the SI team to back out of this thread for a short while to let the dust settle a bit. We view this optional public beta as a positive (there have been well over 1000 of you who participated), we thank you for your involvement. I know some of you disagree with such a beta, but it's a policy we're going to continue with and we would love for you to continue to help us. 

Thankyou!

Marc Duffy attributes changes:

November 2018: Bravery 18

December 2018: Bravery 18.4

PPM: Dictates tempo

[RemiHarlequin]

Legitimate criticism: I'm still yet to see a goalkeeper take less than 8 seconds between receiving and distributing the ball - and generally it's 10-12 seconds - whilst the 'distribute quickly' instruction is active. The constructive part of my criticism is about three pages deep in the ME bugs forum having not received a response.

[timcliffsmith]

Further to my previous positive feedback about the Beta ME, another thing I've noticed, watching on Key Highlights, is that sometimes possession will switch sides maybe three or four times before the chance comes. This is brilliant, really keeps you guessing. Is this deliberate programming (i.e. the highlight beginning deliberately a little longer before some chances than others)? It works very well.

[Weller1980]

13 hours ago, Mitja said:

i gave thumbs up but hope 19.2 being not far from release meens week or two at least. very few of major issues were fixed, some are even worse than ever before like crossing.

We really do need a significant ME update to help balance central play. I hope the problem isn't to deep routed and can be fixed or at least improved for version 19.2

The last 2-3 years we haven't received significant ME fixes for the winter transfer update, so this could be the last meaningful ME update.

[davidmn27]

Any idea when 19.2 will be launched in the full game? 

Any of the testers able to summarise what the changes are and how they're affecting the gameplay? 

Thanks 

[Bakiano]

22 minutes ago, davidmn27 said:

Any idea when 19.2 will be launched in the full game? 

Any of the testers able to summarise what the changes are and how they're affecting the gameplay? 

Thanks 

See post above from Duffy.

[davidmn27]

13 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

See post above from Duffy.

I was after some opinions on how the ME is

[Neil Brock]

We’ve just rolled out a small update for the public beta to address a crash which was affecting a small number of users. 

Thanks.

[NicWar]

@Neil Brock Will those of us not using this beta have to wait until February's winter update for it to go live??

[Neil Brock]

27 minutes ago, NicWar said:

@Neil Brock Will those of us not using this beta have to wait until February's winter update for it to go live??

https://community.sigames.com/topic/455060-join-the-football-manager-2019-public-beta-today/?do=findComment&comment=11642486

[NicWar]

That doesn't really answer the question @Neil Brock.

"19.2 is not far away from official launch" is somewhat ambiguous as an answer.

[Kazza]

2 minutes ago, NicWar said:

That doesn't really answer the question @Neil Brock.

"19.2 is not far away from official launch" is somewhat ambiguous as an answer.

Indeed, but there is no definitive date - just have to wait.

[Novem9]

2 часа назад, NicWar сказал:

@Neil Brock Will those of us not using this beta have to wait until February's winter update for it to go live??

FM 18.2 was released in December of 2017

 

FM 17.2 was released in December of 2016

 

Why you talking about Febraury?

[rp1966]

It's pretty normal for there to be a release shortly before Xmas.

Usually with a really bad flaw to force you to spend time with your family ...

 

... OK, I might have made that last bit up!

[FrazT]

Nobody, not the Mods, beta testers, or SI staff apart from a very few, will have any idea of when an update is released and what will be included in it and this has always been the case.  Again, as always, the exact date is never released in advance, so asking for details is pointless and not getting an exact date is not disrespectful, just custom and practice.

[tektonik]

Tiki taka can work in this version which is nice, still not enjoying how most of the goals are scored but it's a lot closer than 19.1. Could use some more through balls to penetrating runs as the Striker remains rather immobile. 

[Armistice]

Can somebody enlighten me as why some people want 19.2 so bad to be released? You can play the public beta if you want an update on 19.1.

[99]

Sometimes I wonder what my knowledge of football actually is - because in meanwhile of so much discussions and people apparently unable to play due to "how bad" the ME is, I'm tremendously enjoying the game, season after season, with different times (big and small), in different countries, with some different tactics, and I'm loving the game more and more. It's not perfect ofcourse, but it's so much better than anything else ever made in this niche... FM19 is by far the best version SI ever released. But, by far.

(Playing the public Beta, I don't know the current stance of the retail version).

(Also I hope my post doesn't feel offensive to people, I'm all for constructive criticism because that's what allows things to evolve, move forward. If I'm enjoying, it's also because of critics who made the game have a leap forward. Some criticism, however, is far from being constructive here).

[fm2020.smith]

its been a month since release and feedback is still as bad as ever. in fact its been this way since it was introduced. we are away to inter milan struggling one nil down. i do some tweaks and the players respond and we get the equaliser and draw the game and we prob just about bossed the second half. so feedback was im pleased with that there were some positives for sure. its away to inter for gods sake its a tough game!!

nope every reacted negatively and lost moral :/ i i get the me is harder to get right and make like real life football but surely feedback should be fixed by now.

2 nil up and concede 10 minutes to go so its 2 1 you want your players to tighten up or concentrate. nope dont say that they always react in a negative way. only 2 really get a response in shouts, show passion and demand more.

sometimes push forward. ther rest might as well not be there as they do nothing 

[tektonik]

4 hours ago, jamessmith010101 said:

its been a month since release and feedback is still as bad as ever. in fact its been this way since it was introduced. we are away to inter milan struggling one nil down. i do some tweaks and the players respond and we get the equaliser and draw the game and we prob just about bossed the second half. so feedback was im pleased with that there were some positives for sure. its away to inter for gods sake its a tough game!!

nope every reacted negatively and lost moral :/ i i get the me is harder to get right and make like real life football but surely feedback should be fixed by now.

2 nil up and concede 10 minutes to go so its 2 1 you want your players to tighten up or concentrate. nope dont say that they always react in a negative way. only 2 really get a response in shouts, show passion and demand more.

sometimes push forward. ther rest might as well not be there as they do nothing 

And I have experienced none of this, you need better tactics

[fm2020.smith]

2 hours ago, tektonik said:

And I have experienced none of this, you need better tactics

[fm2020.smith]

only played one game but in that one game the thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is that full backs or wing backs not doing their job. offensively they are too gung ho. when we are in possession like out wide with a winger they need to provide support but stay out wide in case of counter! but they are sprinting in the area leaving no cover at all? 

defensively they are tucking in too much which means crossing and goal is back. 1 game and 3 goals all the same cross to far post wb has tucked into centre and winger scores at far post

[Rashidi]

18 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

only played one game but in that one game the thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is that full backs or wing backs not doing their job. offensively they are too gung ho. when we are in possession like out wide with a winger they need to provide support but stay out wide in case of counter! but they are sprinting in the area leaving no cover at all? 

defensively they are tucking in too much which means crossing and goal is back. 1 game and 3 goals all the same cross to far post wb has tucked into centre and winger scores at far post

Check your team instructions, and the duty you chose for them. Sounds like a problem related to that.

[fm2020.smith]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

Check your shouts, and the duty you chose for them. Sounds like a problem related to that.

next game. deffo something wrong with the fb or wb. im playing def wide width and yet they are tucked in at the opp gk. they kick it long fb who has lost the winger as hes tucked in watches as ball goes over his head and then stops. again cross and goal !!

[fm2020.smith]

also seems to be something wrong with defenders heading the ball. they are letting the ball bounce where as before they would attack it now it bouncing and always giving the attacker the edge.

 

also when oh when are you guys going to fix the ball shadow in analyst view. every single edition has been the same since the view came in. you have no idea whether the ball is in the air or on the ground it frustrating to keep feeding it back with every patch and every game and its still there ?

[Mons]

@jamessmith010101, this kind of feedback for the match engine needs to be backed up with pkms in the bugs forum. There could be a myriad of reasons why your wide defensive players are behaving that way. It could be due to player or team instructions, player preferences, tactical style, mentality, game stage, player attributes etc. etc. It's easy to say it's a bug - but only with the pkm can SI tell whether the behaviour is not as intended or if it is due to instructions related to the style and mentality you are employing which perhaps you are not even aware of.

[fm2020.smith]

1 minute ago, Mons said:

@jamessmith010101, this kind of feedback for the match engine needs to be backed up with pkms in the bugs forum. There could be a myriad of reasons why your wide defensive players are behaving that way. It could be due to player or team instructions, player preferences, tactical style, mentality, game stage, player attributes etc. etc. It's easy to say it's a bug - but only with the pkm can SI tell whether the behaviour is not as intended or if it is due to instructions related to the style and mentality you are employing which perhaps you are not even aware of.

ok ill do that. so whats the idea of having the beta feedback forum ? 

[Kazza]

3 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

ok ill do that. so whats the idea of having the beta feedback forum ? 

You have only played one game then went to play another  - if I read your posts correctly. Maybe play a number of games then  do one post with your observations. You will get a better response. Then follow that up with pkm's etc if your still concerned that it is the game and not you.

 

[fm2020.smith]

yeah ill do that as well. the reason i posted was that i went from 19.1 to .2 and noticed the difference straight away 

[bar333]

7 hours ago, tektonik said:

And I have experienced none of this, you need better tactics

What do tactics have to do with touchline shouts? Do people even read the post they're responding to before giving out this canned response now?

I've had the same experience with about half of the shouts (can't remember how many there are) only ever having a negative effect. The ones that work are Demand More, Show Some Passion, Get Creative, sometimes Praise - these are all I use.

[Novem9]

11 часов назад, 99 сказал:

FM19 is by far the best version SI ever released

Speaking the language of this game, FM19 has the biggest PA from product line, but this CA is low right now

[herne79]

18 minutes ago, bar333 said:

What do tactics have to do with touchline shouts?

Tactics, touchline shouts, OIs, morale, body language and so on all work in harmony together.  We can't isolate one from the other, so tactics have everything to do with touchline shouts and vice versa.  They all have an impact on each other and ultimately how well your players perform on the pitch.

If you have a poor tactical system, no amount of shouting is going to correct that.  Likewise you can cock up a good tactical system with a poorly judged shout.  Of course all of this is contextual and what may work in one match may not work in another.  Personally I never use shouts at all, but that's just me and how I play the game - others will do things differently.

If someone is going to use touchline shouts, it's important to understand they do not directly impact tactical settings.  They affect player body language and morale, both of which affect how players perform on the pitch.  There's a guide pinned to the top of the Tactics and Training forum found in the "Please Read" thread @jamessmith010101.

[bleventozturk]

I really don't care about minor things at this point, but I just wonder if the huge issue with lack of central play is being tackled right now by the coders, or has the decision been made to leave it for FM20? I think it is a fair question, because many fans like me will be expecting and waiting an improvement in that area for the next few months, until the final patch is out. I just don't want to waste my time coming in here and testing the new updates if the main issue that I am observing right now won't be tackled at all. In one of Neil's posts he said SI thinks this is the most well balanced ME up to date, and assuming that he is referring to ME1922, it is very concerning. That means their criteria for balance is much different than mine, and obviously many others' here. 

I saw a thread where FM fans were telling their age, and I realized I am maybe not the minority, at 42 years of age. Most of us have very busy lives, and we love FM and we like spending some of our limited time on this game, even testing it to help SI to improve the game. 

So, my expectation: If they will try to improve the central play, and they won't be able to, that's fine. But it would be really nice to know what the plan is. I would prefer to know it now and stop checking until FM20.

[keithfc]

11 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I really don't care about minor things at this point, but I just wonder if the huge issue with lack of central play is being tackled right now by the coders, or has the decision been made to leave it for FM20? I think it is a fair question, because many fans like me will be expecting and waiting an improvement in that area for the next few months, until the final patch is out. I just don't want to waste my time coming in here and testing the new updates if the main issue that I am observing right now won't be tackled at all. In one of Neil's posts he said SI thinks this is the most well balanced ME up to date, and assuming that he is referring to ME1922, it is very concerning. That means their criteria for balance is much different than mine, and obviously many others' here. 

I saw a thread where FM fans were telling their age, and I realized I am maybe not the minority, at 42 years of age. Most of us have very busy lives, and we love FM and we like spending some of our limited time on this game, even testing it to help SI to improve the game. 

So, my expectation: If they will try to improve the central play, and they won't be able to, that's fine. But it would be really nice to know what the plan is. I would prefer to know it now and stop checking until FM20.

I think you can come back in the mid of March next year for 1930 which is the final update of FM2019

 

But I will keep checking when there is an update. It just need 10mins to watch half match. It's not time consuming.

[Johnny Ace]

26 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

I hope you’re right, otherwise I’m going to be disappointed with this years ME. For me I like my teams to play a central style of football, the current ME doesn’t allow me to do that.

This is the snippet:

We don't feel this match engine is "severely restricted" and sorry to hear you feel that way, but we do feel the version of the match engine we have currently in test is the best and most realistic that we've ever put out. 

He says currently in test, so by that I'm thinking the ME they're testing "in-house" rather than the one on beta but then says "put out" so I'm not sure if he does mean the ME in the beta 

Trust me, I'm as frustrated as anyone so I'm hoping that's the former & not the latter

 

[Domathon]

30 yard screamers every game either for me or oppostion

[Johnny Ace]

4 minutes ago, Domathon said:

30 yard screamers every game either for me or oppostion

I'm getting a load of free kicks & set piece goals

I played 4 games in my Celtic save yesterday, the games went a little something like this:

1-0 Penalty

1-0 Free Kick

1-0  Free Kick

3-1 Penalty, Corner, goal from play, concede from Corner 

I'm just remaining patient on a ME update, I have faith 

[Novem9]

8 минут назад, Johnny Ace сказал:

I'm getting a load of free kicks & set piece goals

 

all that we were not given in FM18