Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[Jack Joyce]

11 minutes ago, johnhughthom said:

The issue with that is the problem isn't individual moments, it's the same thing happening again and again. 

Looked at in isolation, a single instance can easily be argued away as a bad decision. We can hardly upload every single match to show the issue of wide players dallying to allow a defender to close him down. Or defenders playing find the scarecrow. 

This is true to an extent. However once we've identified something like this as happening too regularly, then we can send 10-12 of the 'best' examples of this happening forward to the devs to investigate. One of the reasons we ask for examples of these kinds of issues is to get a sense for how commonly-occurring certain issues are, as that helps us know how much of a priority it needs to be for us to find a fix.

[MatthewS17]

22 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

Goal variety is certainly something we can always improve. We'd always welcome examples of these kind of issues, not only the issues you mentioned, but also types of movements/passes/finishing that you don't think we see enough of in the ME. For issues like that we'd need examples of situations where you think the player could do this certain action, but chooses not to.

Wait a second. Are you saying that there isn't an issue with through balls and passing predictability at the moment? Is that why SI is so quiet about this, when there have been numerous pkms delivered, relating to striker movement and through balls? It was acknowledged as a problem at the beginning. Has this been reneged? I don't understand. One just has to pull up a pass map to see the massive 'V' shape that forms from the midfield constantly passing out wide, and not even attempting a through ball. Which is also tied in with the movement issue. You can't tell me that this is not something that needs to rectified. 

[Jack Joyce]

4 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

Wait a second. Are you saying that there isn't an issue with through balls and passing predictability at the moment? Is that why SI is so quiet about this, when there have been numerous pkms delivered, relating to striker movement and through balls? It was acknowledged as a problem at the beginning. Has this been reneged? I don't understand. One just has to pull up a pass map to see the massive 'V' shape that forms from the midfield constantly passing out wide, and not even attempting a through ball. Which is also tied in with the movement issue. You can't tell me that this is not something that needs to rectified. 

I'm not quite sure how you got this from "Goal variety is certainly something we can always improve. We'd always welcome examples of these kind of issues" to be honest. Where did I say any of these things exactly?

[MatthewS17]

1 minute ago, Jack Joyce said:

I'm not quite sure how you got this from "Goal variety is certainly something we can always improve. We'd always welcome examples of these kind of issues" to be honest. Where did I say any of these things exactly?

Because all the issues that he is stating, is related to the lack of movement and final passes. They're all tied together in this issue of attacking predictability and lack of movement. And he's stating something along the same lines I have. For one, a bit of acknowledgement that the movement and through balls would go a long way, and some feedback on what SI has planned, but in relation to you, to me your answer was diversionary to what we are trying to point out. 

[Jack Joyce]

Just now, MatthewS17 said:

Because all the issues that he is stating, is related to the lack of movement and final passes. They're all tied together in this issue of attacking predictability and lack of movement. And he's stating something along the same lines I have. For one, a bit of acknowledgement that the movement and through balls would go a long way, and some feedback on what SI has planned, but in relation to you, to me your answer was diversionary to what we are trying to point out. 

We have already acknowledged these concerns in various threads already, and have already said that improving attacking movement is one of our top priorities. I think you're twisting my words here, all I said was that we can improve goal variety and welcome examples to help improve things on that end.

[Weller1980]

I am looking forward to seeing a new ME with new attacking movement, finger crossed we see something for 19.3

Do you beleive the ME team have improved attacking movement since the last patch?

In fairness since the very first beta release back in October I and quite a few forum members noticed a big lack of through balls and forward movement, why is it taking so long to see a fix? Was it a deep routed problem with code or is it proving too difficult to balance. It will be nice to see some different types of goals as I agree with a previous comment a lot of goals come from crosses or set pieces.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Weller1980

[Tony Wright 747]

3 hours ago, paganizer said:

To me, the most important aspect of FM is the ME. Everything else is secondary. If the ME doesnt correctly emulate, what I set up in the tactic screen, and present me with a somewhat realistic football match, the whole game is fail. Who cares about training, buying or interacting, if players move around like headless chicken in what feels more and more like a hardcoded simulation?

Feels like you guys at SI are putting too much effort into new advanced in-depth features, which really don't do anything other than make the game feel tedious and not fun (especially when the features are poorly implemented and the core of the game is lacking). Good example is the player interaction, which "ceefax the cat" questions. It's nice and realistic to be able to interact with players, but it's so poorly implemented and feels more like a chore. The reactions from players are more often than not, weird. I'm pretty sure most people just hit the same response once they find the best/safest one. It just doesn't add any enjoyment! More like the opposite.

Putting together a team, fiddling with tactics and watching how it plays - that's the core of FM - for me anyways. Wish you would focus more on that, before you add all the fluff, because without the core, the rest doesnt matter. 

 

You have hit the nail squarely on the head here

Edited January 29, 2019 by Tony Wright 747

[Jack Joyce]

1 minute ago, Weller1980 said:

I am looking forward to seeing a new ME with new attacking movement, finger crossed we see something for 19.3

Do you beleive the ME team have improved attacking movement since the last patch?

In fairness since the very first beta release back in October I noticed a big lack of through balls and forward movement, why is it taking so long to see a fix? Was it a deep routed problem with code or is it proving too difficult to balance. It will be nice to see some different types of goals as I agree with a previous comment a lot of goals come from crosses or set pieces.

Making changes like this to the ME is a very difficult balancing act. One change can lead to 3/4 other problems and then you end up chasing down a rabbit-hole of knock-on effects. Especially with larger changes to passing decisions, there's all sorts of considerations that have to be made. 

We will only ever release a new ME when we are convinced it is in a good enough state to do so, but unfortunately we can't give any exact timeframe since we can never completely predict what kind of knock-ons we may need to investigate and fix.

[Weller1980]

2 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:Making changes like this to the ME is a very difficult balancing act. One change can lead to 3/4 other problems and then you end up chasing down a rabbit-hole of knock-on effects. Especially with larger changes to passing decisions, there's all sorts of considerations that have to be made. 

We will only ever release a new ME when we are convinced it is in a good enough state to do so, but unfortunately we can't give any exact timeframe since we can never completely predict what kind of knock-ons we may need to investigate and fix.

It would be very interesting to gain a better understanding of your process on how you implement changes, how you test and investigate problems etc, I believe you when you say it’s a complicated process. Perhaps some kind of video blog to give forum users an appreciation of what’s required a behind the scenes look for the geeks among us.

I seem to remember a comment explaining there is a one million lines of code, that’s unreal. And let’s not forget this is the most relaistic and sophisticated ME within the games industry. Nothing compares or even comes close, but improvements to this current ME are desperately needed, normally at this point of development we have a balanced engine, this engine in my opinion needs another patch.

[Jack Joyce]

1 minute ago, Weller1980 said:

It would be very interesting to gain a better understanding of your process on how you implement changes, how you test and investigate problems etc, I believe you when you say it’s a complicated process. Perhaps some kind of video blog to give forum users an appreciation of what’s required a behind the scenes look for the geeks among us.

That would be one for the Comms team but it sounds like an interesting idea!

[rdbayly]

It's good to see SI staff back making regular contributions on this thread 

 

[JohnShaft]

Jack, first of all, thanks for sticking your head above the parapet and coming to this thread.

I have a number of issues with the game, and SI atm. Primarily these:

 

1. Why on earth isn't there an SI posted megathread of all issues that the team is working on?

An SI thread with a list of, to them, the major ME issues (Striker movement, Long shots goals too frequent, Defenders clearing headers aimlessly, Fullbacks defending too narrow, ETC) would go a long way . Especially if you updated it with how those improvements were going.

As it is there's bits and pieces of SI communication all over the place, with no real understanding of what's happening to change them. We don't really know what's going on.

If you fail to effectively communicate your acknowledgement, and progression, with game issuesthen you get what we've had here, over the weeks and months: customer frustration and venting.

 

2. The Public Beta.

I signed up for this in December. We haven't had a ME update in weeks. What's the point of a Public Beta for feedback if you're not going to update it so we can give feedback?

I posted feeback about one of the early updates saying how certain things in the ME had improved. I can't do that now because where's the updates?

Are you seriously saying in a month you can't make a single tweak to the effectiveness of long shots (or the keepers ability to react from shots from range) to reduce their effectiveness by 30% or whatever? Really? If you realise that would skew goals down too much, well, then that brings up the Striker issue that is the reason for this...

 

3. The lack of acknowledgement for feedback is staggering. And I'm not talking about the venting in General Discussion. Go check the Public Beta, or Match Engine bug, forum and see the effort that people are putting in to make threads about issues that plague the game. The great majority are either unanswered, or unanswered but for a "post PKM". When someone does, once again often dead air.

I posted a follow up to someone else's post about "Defenders Bad Clearing Headers". SI ask for PKM. I post a PKM and screenshot, and again no response from SI. Not even an acknowledgement. This was two weeks ago.

Are SI now looking at this? Do SI not think this is an issue?

I don't know, because the Staff ask for help and do a bad job (in a lot of cases) of following up on it.

How you expect constructive feedback, when your feedback to our feedback is so poor, I don't know...

 

Conclusion:

I really think at this point SI is not helping itself. IMO this is the most egregiously flawed (I don't mean it's necessarily the worst) Match Engine there's ever been - the lack of Striker involvement frankly makes the game lopsided and at times anti-football. For those that would refute this, go check the league's top scorers and compare to real life.

Scorers of 20+ goals:

PL over last 5 years (data from here): 18

FM PL -  a full league I've never had a team in - over last 5 years: 4

I could pluck out dozens of other details like this:

Average goals for 2nd top scorer: PL: 24.4, FMPL: 17.4

Strikers, and therefore top goal scorers, are just broken.

I've shipped out half a dozen strikers (and their replacements) over the last five years, until I just recently full realised: it's not the lad's fault he gets a 6.4 most games. It's the match engines...

 

While I'm (mostly) enjoying the game - because I always have - I've never been more disappointed with SI than this. I am on the edge of quitting (despite being a staggering 500 hours in) until the next major patch (my aggrieved strikers probably have started a petition for my sacking) and will probably never buy this game before March again, unless something about the way SI currently operates changes...

 

Thanks for reading my thoughts.

 

[Nathozz]

How come there isn’t a way where we can choose which patch we are on? Like if we don’t like one patch we can just choose the previous? Would certainly solve my issues with the game. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, rdbayly said:

It's good to see SI staff back making regular contributions on this thread 

 

When they're not getting berated they're pretty good at replying. They can't always answer everything but they'll often give you a reason why. 

[Domathon]

i have never won more than 3 games in a row, but when your trying hard to win its really easy to loose 6/7/8/9 games in a row, for me anyway, man i suck i guess, **** sake :/

[Bradley21]

While it's great to see SI staff communicating, it has always bothered me that the go to is always "Post PKM's in the bug forum", regardless of the context of the issue. Something as obvious and wide-spread as strikers performing poorly isn't something that I, or any other member should be constantly begged for, it should be something that SI and their QA team can replicate by simply loading up a new save in any league, using any team, and any striker. 

 

I've done plenty of QA in my time, and for such an issue the equivalent of PKM's is always welcome, but it it was never the be all and end all as it is a huge, overarching issue that is easily replicated. The things we needed good bug reporting for were the stranger issues, or the really complex issues that are hard to see over anything but a long period of time. Sure, comparing goal ratios from FM to real life over long periods of time is useful for the devs, but the issue is already known and communicated over and over, they should be doing this themselves by now. Something like newgen stat spreads, PA reducing/increasing as games go on or retirement ages and their long term effects are things that the community should definitely communicate in a highly detailed and constructive manner if they can, but the fact that strikers are a bit **** is such an obvious issue that it makes no sense for SI/Moderators to beg for this before they can begin to think about changing anything.

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, Bradley21 said:

While it's great to see SI staff communicating, it has always bothered me that the go to is always "Post PKM's in the bug forum", regardless of the context of the issue. Something as obvious and wide-spread as strikers performing poorly isn't something that I, or any other member should be constantly begged for, it should be something that SI and their QA team can replicate by simply loading up a new save in any league, using any team, and any striker. 

 

I've done plenty of QA in my time, and for such an issue the equivalent of PKM's is always welcome, but it it was never the be all and end all as it is a huge, overarching issue that is easily replicated. The things we needed good bug reporting for were the stranger issues, or the really complex issues that are hard to see over anything but a long period of time. Sure, comparing goal ratios from FM to real life over long periods of time is useful for the devs, but the issue is already known and communicated over and over, they should be doing this themselves by now. Something like newgen stat spreads, PA reducing/increasing as games go on or retirement ages and their long term effects are things that the community should definitely communicate in a highly detailed and constructive manner if they can, but the fact that strikers are a bit **** is such an obvious issue that it makes no sense for SI/Moderators to beg for this before they can begin to think about changing anything.

PKMs contain code. So they will always be wanted, always. And thus they will ALWAYS ask for this if you're got any kind of issue to do with the match engine. So requesting PKMs is never going to change from their side of things, as whatever the issue it allows them to actively look at what was happening in that specific instance. And given that it's easier than ever before to upload one (since you can attach it directly to the post) it's much less of an issue, takes less than a minute

[Bradley21]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

PKMs contain code. So they will always be wanted, always. And thus they will ALWAYS ask for this if you're got any kind of issue to do with the match engine

I am aware of what a PKM is. My point is that it is very easy for them to get their own for this type of issue by simply getting anyone affiliated with SI to run a save for a single season, then look through the matches, so the constant tone of "post proof or shush" is a bit frustrating to see on topics such as this.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Bradley21 said:

I am aware of what a PKM is. My point is that it is very easy for them to get their own for this type of issue by simply getting anyone affiliated with SI to run a save for a single season, then look through the matches, so the constant tone of "post proof or shush" is a bit frustrating to see on topics such as this.

They already do run saves. The whole point of getting PKMs from elsewhere is to increase information and perspective, especially since so many people play the game in different ways, which can stress the ME in different ways. And if you have a specific instant, its much more effective to get that PKM with it, than going through a save to then replicate it. You might disagree, but it's definitely never going to change as a point of working

[vdmsmrcv]

4 часа назад, Jack Joyce сказал:

We will only ever release a new ME when we are convinced it is in a good enough state to do so

You have released FM19.

[Per Annum]

Sunday league rep is pointless. "Career" saves are a total myth.

Sacked from Leeds and Sheff Wed for annoying the board and let go by Villa after never renewing contract, with relegation inevitable.

Then Real Madrid.

What is the point of playing that type of FM save? There isn't one as things stand with the in-game reputation so broken.

 

[ajw10]

5 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

Making changes like this to the ME is a very difficult balancing act. One change can lead to 3/4 other problems and then you end up chasing down a rabbit-hole of knock-on effects. Especially with larger changes to passing decisions, there's all sorts of considerations that have to be made. 

We will only ever release a new ME when we are convinced it is in a good enough state to do so, but unfortunately we can't give any exact timeframe since we can never completely predict what kind of knock-ons we may need to investigate and fix.

So why was the last ME update released, when I, among quite a few others on here, found it to be the worst iteration in FM 19?

[Lord Rowell]

1 hour ago, Bradley21 said:

I am aware of what a PKM is. My point is that it is very easy for them to get their own for this type of issue by simply getting anyone affiliated with SI to run a save for a single season, then look through the matches, so the constant tone of "post proof or shush" is a bit frustrating to see on topics such as this.

That's not entirely true. The game is so big because FM is a global game, and little quirks in things like attribute differences in different leagues can make a heck of a difference and pull up issues that others might not spot or be able to nail. For example, I found a PSG centre back of mine (Kimpebe) was scoring a crazy amount of goals from Neymar set pieces. Probably a unique combination of his slight height advantage against mediocre (not bad) defenders, superb delivery and a few under-the-bonnet issues re. heading accuracy. SI have fixed the issue and while I'm not making grandiose claims, I'd like to think that what I posted re. PKMs and comments on the problems helped with this - I think it did.

[warlock]

2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

So why was the last ME update released, when I, among quite a few others on here, found it to be the worst iteration in FM 19?

Possibly because a great many of us are very happy with the ME as it stands. In my view - which is precisely as valid as yours - the only thing wrong with the ME right now is the AI defending of throw-ins around the 18-yard line. Yes, I'd like to see long-shot effectiveness tweaked a bit but it isn't a big deal. The other stuff that a minority bang on about - immobile strikers, inability to play a through-ball, wingers coming too narrow (or not narrow enough) - I'm just not seeing. I've played more than a dozen saves with clubs from the PL down to non-league and my sides have scored every kind of goal I'd expect to see, including defence-splitting through-balls, crosses, killer balls from deep, intricate pass-and-move around the area, strikers dropping deep or pulling wide to create a chance for a midfielder, shots from 20-25 yards. My strikers don't score every one-on-one but they score plenty.

I've said it before but it bears a lot of repeating... every time I watch real-life football I'm struck by how much it looks like FM. World-class wingers and wing-backs hitting the cross into the defender, or over-hitting it out of play on the far side. Strikers missing 'easy' chances. Defenders making utterly incomprehensible mistakes. Keepers fumbling a shot into the net. And, yes, 'better' teams dominating possession, chances, shots on goal, and losing.

[zlatanera]

5 minutes ago, warlock said:

1. Possibly because a great many of us are very happy with the ME as it stands. In my view - which is precisely as valid as yours - the only thing wrong with the ME right now is the AI defending of throw-ins around the 18-yard line. Yes, I'd like to see long-shot effectiveness tweaked a bit but it isn't a big deal. The other stuff that a minority bang on about - immobile strikers, inability to play a through-ball, wingers coming too narrow (or not narrow enough) - I'm just not seeing. I've played more than a dozen saves with clubs from the PL down to non-league and my sides have scored every kind of goal I'd expect to see, including defence-splitting through-balls, crosses, killer balls from deep, intricate pass-and-move around the area, strikers dropping deep or pulling wide to create a chance for a midfielder, shots from 20-25 yards. My strikers don't score every one-on-one but they score plenty.

2. I've said it before but it bears a lot of repeating... every time I watch real-life football I'm struck by how much it looks like FM. World-class wingers and wing-backs hitting the cross into the defender, or over-hitting it out of play on the far side. Strikers missing 'easy' chances. Defenders making utterly incomprehensible mistakes. Keepers fumbling a shot into the net. And, yes, 'better' teams dominating possession, chances, shots on goal, and losing.

1. That throw-in thing is driving me crazy - I feel like I'm benefiting from it more than I'm being punished by it at the moment. Dreading when my luck turns.

2. Anyone watching Manchester United's strikers under Mourinho would be confused as to why FMers were complaining about a lack of movement...speaking of which, here's the stats from today's game:

It finishes 2-2. If I hadn't mentioned it was from real life, and did some fancy graphical stuff to turn that into how it looks on FM, nobody would be any the wiser.

[warlock]

43 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

It finishes 2-2.

Unbelievable! Game's broken .

[Mitja]

2 hours ago, warlock said:

Possibly because a great many of us are very happy with the ME as it stands. In my view - which is precisely as valid as yours - the only thing wrong with the ME right now is the AI defending of throw-ins around the 18-yard line. Yes, I'd like to see long-shot effectiveness tweaked a bit but it isn't a big deal. The other stuff that a minority bang on about - immobile strikers, inability to play a through-ball, wingers coming too narrow (or not narrow enough) - I'm just not seeing. I've played more than a dozen saves with clubs from the PL down to non-league and my sides have scored every kind of goal I'd expect to see, including defence-splitting through-balls, crosses, killer balls from deep, intricate pass-and-move around the area, strikers dropping deep or pulling wide to create a chance for a midfielder, shots from 20-25 yards. My strikers don't score every one-on-one but they score plenty.

I've said it before but it bears a lot of repeating... every time I watch real-life football I'm struck by how much it looks like FM. World-class wingers and wing-backs hitting the cross into the defender, or over-hitting it out of play on the far side. Strikers missing 'easy' chances. Defenders making utterly incomprehensible mistakes. Keepers fumbling a shot into the net. And, yes, 'better' teams dominating possession, chances, shots on goal, and losing.

 After reading your post i would think there is perfect ME. To me it looks you have found a way to balance the ME and have adjusted your tactics to it. Good for you but it doesnt meen there are no major issues (which are acknowledged and being worked on).

[Jack Joyce]

12 hours ago, ajw10 said:

So why was the last ME update released, when I, among quite a few others on here, found it to be the worst iteration in FM 19?

The latest ME brought in various improvements/fixes that we (and the private beta) believe made it better than the previous one. Simple as that really. The private beta has many dedicated, intelligent and critical players of the game and we value their opinions, and they believed that although the ME has its issues (as all MEs will do) it was better than the previous one. If we didn't ever release a ME until it was completely flawless you'd never get one.

@Mitja No one said the ME is perfect. They just said they enjoy the current ME, which is a perfectly valid opinion without the need for bickering.

[ravenation]

I have complained for many seasons about the negotiation where agent always demands the same, even after 10 times saying no and with player angry i dont want to give him a new contract.

After following the debate about the backstop in the Brexit negotiations, i fully acknowledge that it is how it works for some negotiators.

[Neil Brock]

13 hours ago, zlatanera said:

1. That throw-in thing is driving me crazy - I feel like I'm benefiting from it more than I'm being punished by it at the moment. Dreading when my luck turns.

2. Anyone watching Manchester United's strikers under Mourinho would be confused as to why FMers were complaining about a lack of movement...speaking of which, here's the stats from today's game:

It finishes 2-2. If I hadn't mentioned it was from real life, and did some fancy graphical stuff to turn that into how it looks on FM, nobody would be any the wiser.

Us winning with two shots on target last night:

[Novem9]

1 час назад, Neil Brock сказал:

Us winning with two shots on target last night:

If strikers in FM19 moves like Aguero yesterday, this thread was much shorter

[rain94]

3 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

The latest ME brought in various improvements/fixes that we (and the private beta) believe made it better than the previous one. Simple as that really. The private beta has many dedicated, intelligent and critical players of the game and we value their opinions, and they believed that although the ME has its issues (as all MEs will do) it was better than the previous one. If we didn't ever release a ME until it was completely flawless you'd never get one.

@Mitja No one said the ME is perfect. They just said they enjoy the current ME, which is a perfectly valid opinion without the need for bickering.

Add me as someone who has quietly enjoyed this match engine version. No match engine is perfect as we have seen in the past FM's, each has its own flaws, but I do feel that this is the best FM so far. As for the long shots, yes, it does seem just a bit overpowered. Attacking movement from forwards could be better and the throw-ins are atrocious at times. Apart from that, after playing several seasons with different clubs, I didn't find anything game breaking. I couldn't say that for past FM's.

[Jack Joyce]

9 minutes ago, rain94 said:

Add me as someone who has quietly enjoyed this match engine version. No match engine is perfect as we have seen in the past FM's, each has its own flaws, but I do feel that this is the best FM so far. As for the long shots, yes, it does seem just a bit overpowered. Attacking movement from forwards could be better and the throw-ins are atrocious at times. Apart from that, after playing several seasons with different clubs, I didn't find anything game breaking. I couldn't say that for past FM's.

I assume you mean the weird issue where the defending team uses an offside trap for some throw ins. If so, we're working on a fix for that too. Good to hear you're enjoying the latest ME, we'll be looking to make it even better!

[Fosse]

I've just had my most successful season (probably the only full season I've completed tbh) by getting Bochum promoted as 2. Bundesliga champions but it was an absolute chore. Despite having one of the better technical sides in the division I ended up 1-0ing my way to the title through set pieces and my striker converting a a very difficult chance or spring from a corner every other game. The shot volume from both sides was poor and I didn't concede many open play goals either despite having defensively mediocre fullbacks. My general observations are (I've not read this thread at all this FM iirc):

Poor crossing locations and decisions (notably running into the opposition defender before crossing)

Lack of forward movement from CMs 

The understanding of space is frustrating from players

Not enough penetrative passing

 

 

The positive is that defending is much more realistic and it looks more like professional football more often than previous additions but at the cost of enjoyment on my part.

[themadsheep2001]

58 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

I assume you mean the weird issue where the defending team uses an offside trap for some throw ins. If so, we're working on a fix for that too. Good to hear you're enjoying the latest ME, we'll be looking to make it even better!

@Flohrinho here's confirmation about the throw in issue. 

[Flohrinho]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

@Flohrinho here's confirmation about the throw in issue. 

Nice. Thanks for the notice, very kind of you.

[zlatanera]

I actually thought there was a logic to them playing offside traps on throws - sure sometimes a long throw gets headed straight in, but most of the time my guy tries to head it on for someone else to finish, only when the second touch comes they're about 10 yards offside and the goal is ruled out. 

[warlock]

1 hour ago, zlatanera said:

I actually thought there was a logic to them playing offside traps on throws

Sometimes the offside trap works. When the receiving player gets the ball, he'll sometimes just head it on, and there's usually three or four of his teammates in offside positions. Where it breaks down is when the receiving player gets the ball under control, moves a couple of yards to the byline and then plays a backward pass across the goal where those three or four teammates are unmarked and can't be offside because there's no forward pass.

Weirdly, there seems to be a difference in play from left and right sides. I've scored loads from throw-ins from the right as above. But I rarely score from the left side where my player usually heads or passes back to the throw-in taker and the move often breaks down. I've seen this happen across several saves, with different teams, different formations and different tactics.

[zlatanera]

19 minutes ago, warlock said:

Sometimes the offside trap works. When the receiving player gets the ball, he'll sometimes just head it on, and there's usually three or four of his teammates in offside positions. Where it breaks down is when the receiving player gets the ball under control, moves a couple of yards to the byline and then plays a backward pass across the goal where those three or four teammates are unmarked and can't be offside because there's no forward pass.

Weirdly, there seems to be a difference in play from left and right sides. I've scored loads from throw-ins from the right as above. But I rarely score from the left side where my player usually heads or passes back to the throw-in taker and the move often breaks down. I've seen this happen across several saves, with different teams, different formations and different tactics.

Yeah that's what I was saying, it works a lot. I haven't really seen the one you describe of them getting to the byline though, probably due to my routines though as that does sound like something no self-respecting football team would allow to be inflicted upon them. 

I feel the same about right vs. left though. 

[Amarante]

@warlock

On 29/01/2019 at 18:05, warlock said:

Possibly because a great many of us are very happy with the ME as it stands. In my view - which is precisely as valid as yours - the only thing wrong with the ME right now is the AI defending of throw-ins around the 18-yard line. Yes, I'd like to see long-shot effectiveness tweaked a bit but it isn't a big deal. The other stuff that a minority bang on about - immobile strikers, inability to play a through-ball, wingers coming too narrow (or not narrow enough) - I'm just not seeing. I've played more than a dozen saves with clubs from the PL down to non-league and my sides have scored every kind of goal I'd expect to see, including defence-splitting through-balls, crosses, killer balls from deep, intricate pass-and-move around the area, strikers dropping deep or pulling wide to create a chance for a midfielder, shots from 20-25 yards. My strikers don't score every one-on-one but they score plenty.

I've said it before but it bears a lot of repeating... every time I watch real-life football I'm struck by how much it looks like FM. World-class wingers and wing-backs hitting the cross into the defender, or over-hitting it out of play on the far side. Strikers missing 'easy' chances. Defenders making utterly incomprehensible mistakes. Keepers fumbling a shot into the net. And, yes, 'better' teams dominating possession, chances, shots on goal, and losing.

As i can go and bring you screenshots videos heatmaps passing map to all show you that central movement, forwards too narrow or too high up the field is an issue. Everyone knows that the ME will have issues the problem is that this version of the ME has made a certain style of play or certain movement and understanding of space irrelevant. I still believe this is because of the changes to the defending but the attacking side could not cope with these changes

[russell9]

13 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

I assume you mean the weird issue where the defending team uses an offside trap for some throw ins. If so, we're working on a fix for that too. Good to hear you're enjoying the latest ME, we'll be looking to make it even better!

Will throw ins being patch before 19.3? I reported the issue on last year November during 19.1 and expected it to be fix in 19.2 but sadly nothing were being done about it.
Here's the bug report thread,

https://community.sigames.com/topic/459680-throw-ins-exploit

Edited January 31, 2019 by russell9

[YankeeRam]

I am rather enjoying this version of the game, hated '17 and didn't buy last year. I am glad I did this year and have been having fun playing. There have been a few wonder goals that make me raise my eye brows but it hasnt made me rage quit a game yet.  

[MBarbaric]

11 ore fa, zlatanera ha scritto:

I actually thought there was a logic to them playing offside traps on throws - sure sometimes a long throw gets headed straight in, but most of the time my guy tries to head it on for someone else to finish, only when the second touch comes they're about 10 yards offside and the goal is ruled out. 

there is no off side on throw ins.

[SpiderJu]

@Jack Joyce:  i am from Germany - i hope i can explain, what i want to say and to prefer.

ME = Match Engine
for me, and i think, for many other People,
is the ME more than what happens on the Pitch.

I think the Athmosphere is one of the Thing, that is important, for good ME
because, i think, both Parts are the Target, for having fm playing People saying: wow, amazing Stuff

and the thrid Part is the Environment - specially "the Stadiums"
i think, when SI make this for the Community changing/editing possible,
that would be amazing,

because my Result is:
ME = good Scenes on the Pitch + fantastic feeling Atmosphere + high quality Stadium Imaging
are the Best Way to make FM to higher Level of Feeling

Example: Konami
the make many Parts Changing Possible.
And when you see in the evoweb forum, what the Community can make better, that is fu*ing amazing Stuff:
this feels like a big Point and make this Game 100 % better then the Deafult Game.

i am really sure, that FM can be better then now, when SI start this Point of Agreement and give the Community many more Options to create an BIG FM Game.

I hope, you or other SI Guys, read this Wish and can explain, what are possible.

Thanks a lot to take your Time.

[upthetoon]

can't wait for 19.3. have not played in months.

excited for it.

[ItsYourTacticsMate]

On 30/01/2019 at 01:05, warlock said:

The other stuff that a minority bang on about - immobile strikers, inability to play a through-ball, wingers coming too narrow (or not narrow enough) - I'm just not seeing.

Minority? There are more people on this thread complaining about strikers and attacking movement than those who are happy with it.

 

On 30/01/2019 at 01:05, warlock said:

I've played more than a dozen saves with clubs from the PL down to non-league and my sides have scored every kind of goal I'd expect to see, including defence-splitting through-balls, crosses, killer balls from deep, intricate pass-and-move around the area, strikers dropping deep or pulling wide to create a chance for a midfielder, shots from 20-25 yards. My strikers don't score every one-on-one but they score plenty.

Ok but can you post some highlights or pictures of those?

 

On 30/01/2019 at 01:05, warlock said:

I've said it before but it bears a lot of repeating... every time I watch real-life football I'm struck by how much it looks like FM. World-class wingers and wing-backs hitting the cross into the defender, or over-hitting it out of play on the far side. Strikers missing 'easy' chances. Defenders making utterly incomprehensible mistakes. Keepers fumbling a shot into the net. And, yes, 'better' teams dominating possession, chances, shots on goal, and losing.

Yeah you might be right here, football is not as fluid as it used to be, but the problem is much bigger than simply missing easy chances or crosses being blocked. The game's depiction of attacking play is poor even in its most basic form, you might be able to improve converting those easy chances or having more completed crosses by bringing a better player in, but the problem with the attacking movement cannot improved at all because it's something hardcoded in the game and some roles.

Just to make myself clear, don't beat it to me with roles and duties because I'm not talking about that and it's simply just another poor reasoning to avoid dissecting the main problem, what I'm saying is that some roles and duties are not working as they should and no matter what world class player you bring in, it won't affect that because it's how the game plays.

Edited January 31, 2019 by ItsYourTacticsMate

[andu1]

3 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

can't wait for 19.3. have not played in months.

excited for it.

Then surely you wouldn't mind waiting for another month. 

[CFuller]

1 minute ago, ItsYourTacticsMate said:

Minority? There are more people on this thread complaining about strikers and attacking movement than those who are happy with it.

People who have major complaints about a video game are generally far more vocal than those who don't. You won't find a lot of people posting on feedback threads just to say, "Yeah, everything's fine. "

As has been stated before, only a small percentage of FMers post on these forums, and the biggest complaints come from only a small percentage of those.

[ItsYourTacticsMate]

1 minute ago, CFuller said:

People who have major complaints about a video game are generally far more vocal than those who don't. You won't find a lot of people posting on feedback threads just to say, "Yeah, everything's fine. "

As has been stated before, only a small percentage of FMers post on these forums, and the biggest complaints come from only a small percentage of those.

Yeah but the average FMer won't spend hours on analysis and spotting what's wrong with his tactic. Hell, he might just go on and download a tested tactic and use it so he can simply buy wonderkids, improve them, sell them and press Continue until the club he manages becomes a giant. It doesn't mean anything. Being unaware of problems doesn't mean they're not there.

[SpiderJu]

19.2.3 Changelist  = nothing with ME Changing´s