Heartwork Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Fair point and part of why I think he should stay at Dortmund a little longer so he's away from the UK tabloids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Christ Gareth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 So we can blame Robbie when we lose 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted December 8, 2022 Administrators Share Posted December 8, 2022 Hope he gives them all a Vale shirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted December 8, 2022 Author Share Posted December 8, 2022 Robbie Williams sold out to Qatar already didn't he? So at least he's local. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 3 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said: Capello was always in an unwinnable situation. You can't create a united squad from players already mostly in their late 20s or early 30s when there's a career-long hatred between a lot of them. His only mistake was not kicking a few of them out. But then he would've faced a massive outrage from the public. A team like that needed an army camp, but it wasn't enough. No time off and family contact? It's a month of hard work with biggest trophy in football being the prize. If you can't focus on that, then you shouldn't be on the team. Southgate created a great atmosphere, but it was a completely different situation. Older players weren't stars and were happy to just be a part of NT. Younger players bonded together better because days of bitter football rivalries are long gone. nah, not having that. Unwinnable? He had a good squad with expectations so low that World Cup 2010 was considered acceptable, that was one of the few major teams still playing his favourite 442. Same players had played better in previous tournaments without the army camp, club rivalries or no club rivalries (and for another old foreigner who didn't get the club rivalries and did love kludging players into a rigid 442). Hilarious thing was the only player who actually had a proper public clash with Capello was Terry, the players didn't back Terry, and then Capello ends up dying on the hill of "but nevertheless, he should still be captain if he's in court explaining why he racially abused Rio's brother" a couple of years down the line tbf, Euro 2012 was about the right time to duck out because those players were getting old, but it also underlined how terrible his man management was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted December 8, 2022 Author Share Posted December 8, 2022 God, I'd totally forgot that Terry tried to lead a mutiny mid tournament and all the players hung him out to dry. Really was a pretty dreadful tournament all round. Spain were awful as winners, England may as well not have turned up. The vuvuzelas and the bloody Jabulani ball floating all over the shop. Sven Goran Eriksson managing Ivory Coast in his massive white puffer jacket. Don't remember many good players even. Apart from Tshabalabalaba I think the only breakout star was the bloody octopus. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Appears White has blown up his England career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted December 8, 2022 Administrators Share Posted December 8, 2022 Not good. Genuinely thought he was good enough to start myself, but if he's not got the right attitude then it's only right he was asked to leave. Rest of the team seem to have a good togetherness from what I can see (more so than non-Southgate sides). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Calling bull on that. Considering how his leaving was reported and players responded at the time. And Struggled to mix with squad? He was in the squad at the Euros. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthrax Dave Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Probably just our destructive tabloid media looking for a scapegoat. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haguey Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Probably sick of everyone calling him Ben when he wants to be called Benjamin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
decapitated Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/exclusive-ben-white-england-qatar-28689236 Quote Ben White returned home from England's World Cup camp following a alleged bust-up with assistant boss Steve Holland. White left the Three Lions' Al Wakrah training base in Qatar last week to go back to London, with the FA citing personal reasons. It's understood the Arsenal defender became unhappy in the England camp and struggled to mix with his fellow team-mates. And the final straw came when he had a fall out with Gareth Southgate's No2 Holland in front of the rest of the squad. The pair are understood to have exchanged words when White turned up for a team meeting ahead of the Group B clash with the USA not knowing some vital information relating to his personal stats. Holland is also said to have been less than impressed with White's poor knowledge of England's American opponents. A mutual decision was made to release him from the tournament and the defender will not return to Qatar. White, who had been involved in his first World Cup, failed to appear in three Group B matches for the Three Lions and missed the 3-0 win over Wales due to illness. White was followed home by Raheem Sterling, who flew back to London following a break in at his home. But unlike White, Sterling has headed back to Qatar to rejoin the squad and is expected to be on the bench when England take on reigning champions France in Saturday's quarter-final showdown in Doha. The FA declined to comment, while White's agent failed to respond when contacted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Silly boy if true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnzy Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Still think there is an element of a mental health issue here, “struggled to mix” suggests maybe secluding himself. I dunno there’s more to this than White being a wrong-un Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 I don't know man, I'd wait on a more credible source than Daily Star before jumping to any conclusion... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Even if he did have a bust up with this coach it’s clearly not the reason why he went home. Why on earth would England and Arsenal put out those statements if they sent a player home for that reason Saka in an interview and many other Arsenal players have put out tweets and messages in his support suggesting there’s clearly something else that’s happened. The only source for this is The Daily Star ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kopsy101 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 White always strikes me as having a great attitude, there's definitely a lot of missing info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 “Holland is also said to have been less than impressed with White’s poor knowledge of England’s American opponents” I’m not having this Sounds like something from Capello’s era. Sit them down for a quiz on the other team. If they get stuff wrong, no breakfast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Makes no sense if Ben White was 'struggling to mix with team-mates' like hes a new player and knows no one. He was in the Euro squad AND he's from Arsenal, so at least has his Arsenal teammates like Saka and Ramsdale in there. Doubt the FA would use language such as 'we are with the player' for their post when he flew back to England if he had a bust-up with Southgate. The media should just lay off Benny Blanco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 I could be wrong of course but The Star doesn't seem like the outlet to get a scoop like this but not The Sun or Mail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Shoesmith Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) this has gotta be complete non sense. a player who thrived under Bielsa, by and large the most anal manager on the planet get sent home for a spat about not having knowledge of the other team. not sure how Arteta is as a manager but I would imagine based on the Aubameyang saga this kind of behaviour would fly at Arsenal either Just the crappest of the crap uk tabloids making a story out of nothing no doubt Edited December 9, 2022 by Oliver Shoesmith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 34 minutes ago, adhikapp said: Doubt the FA would use language such as 'we are with the player' for their post when he flew back to England if he had a bust-up with Southgate. Hardly going to hang him out to dry either though. All parties were probably trying to be diplomatic and not counting on leaks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 There's press conferences today. Let's see if we get some credible as opposed to **** from the Daily Star. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 36 minutes ago, Weezer said: Hardly going to hang him out to dry either though. All parties were probably trying to be diplomatic and not counting on leaks. If the leaks were true however, maybe Southgate should've probably bought Tomori in hindsight... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Is Tomori even that good? From what I’ve seen you need to knock a fair bit of percentage off Serie A players perceived ability when comparing them to other players. There’s a few good ones like Brozovic for example but so many Serie A players don’t pass the eye test when you see them irl compared to their profiles in FM/FIFA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, Weezer said: Is Tomori even that good? From what I’ve seen you need to knock a fair bit of percentage off Serie A players perceived ability when comparing them to other players. There’s a few good ones like Brozovic for example but so many Serie A players don’t pass the eye test when you see them irl compared to their profiles in FM/FIFA. Amrabat has never been anything more than a solid player at Fiorentina, but somehow he looks like the best DM in the world at this tournament. There are a ton of hillariously overrated players in every league. Rice being the prime example of it this tournament. Tomori isn't a top class CB, but is more than good enough to start for England. And he would be starting if he was still at Chelsea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennon67 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said: There are a ton of hillariously overrated players in every league. Rice being the prime example of it this tournament. Mount another example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Weezer said: Hardly going to hang him out to dry either though. All parties were probably trying to be diplomatic and not counting on leaks. I don’t see a scenario where both club and country put out a statement like they did for a bust up with a coach. Why wouldn’t he be in Dubai with Arsenal? The Daily Star story makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, PaulHartman71 said: I don’t see a scenario where both club and country put out a statement like they did for a bust up with a coach. Why wouldn’t he be in Dubai with Arsenal? The Daily Star story makes no sense. Exactly. Either there's a massive cover up involving club, country, teams and and the vast majority of English journalists involved in this omerta protecting a fringe player, with only the Daily Star, a paper of spurious quality, daring to break the silence. Or it's a nonsense story from the Daily Star, a paper of spurious quality. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 45 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said: Exactly. Either there's a massive cover up involving club, country, teams and and the vast majority of English journalists involved in this omerta protecting a fringe player, with only the Daily Star, a paper of spurious quality, daring to break the silence. Or it's a nonsense story from the Daily Star, a paper of spurious quality. Yeah, Ben White is irrelevant to Soutgate’s England set up really. He’s only got 4 caps and has been in this and the Euros squad as a versatile back up. Makes no sense they’d go out of their way to protect him like this if he just fell out with Steve Round. Could maybe see someone like Sterling who’s done a lot for Southgate getting protected if something like that had happened but would still be weird and unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 I don't necessarily believe the Daily Star but I don't know what you guys are thinking the alternative would be to the statements England put out. He's still an England squad player that could have a future with them, and Southgate has also proven to not be a dick, of course they're not going to throw him under the bus by revealing he'd been slacking with his homework or had a bust up with the coaching staff. Of course they're going to be diplomatic about it and protect the player and the rest of the squad, fringe player or not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 3 hours ago, adhikapp said: Makes no sense if Ben White was 'struggling to mix with team-mates' like hes a new player and knows no one. He was in the Euro squad AND he's from Arsenal, so at least has his Arsenal teammates like Saka and Ramsdale in there. Doubt the FA would use language such as 'we are with the player' for their post when he flew back to England if he had a bust-up with Southgate. The media should just lay off Benny Blanco. No way that he's been given a nickname straight from a Bronx Tale? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Weezer said: I don't necessarily believe the Daily Star but I don't know what you guys are thinking the alternative would be to the statements England put out. He's still an England squad player that could have a future with them, and Southgate has also proven to not be a dick, of course they're not going to throw him under the bus by revealing he'd been slacking with his homework or had a bust up with the coaching staff. Of course they're going to be diplomatic about it and protect the player and the rest of the squad, fringe player or not. Player will have friends in the squad, would be really odd to thrown him under the bus while the tournament is still ongoing. Also you can 100% believe what the Star have written and also know it won't be the whole story. Could be other issues surrounding him falling out with people that you have to respect. Edited December 9, 2022 by Coulthard's Jaw 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: Player will have friends in the squad, would be really odd to thrown him under the bus while the tournament is still ongoing. Also you can 100% believe what the Star and written and also know it won't be the whole story. Could be other issues surrounding him falling out with people that you have to respect. The truth, as usual, probably somewhere in the middle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 The fact that absolutely no one else has reported it independently or even asked questions so far is quite telling at the moment though. Going to need a much better source before I start giving it credence let alone thinking the truth is somewhere in the middle. Journalists isn't even pushing his own exclusive 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, Weezer said: I don't necessarily believe the Daily Star but I don't know what you guys are thinking the alternative would be to the statements England put out. He's still an England squad player that could have a future with them, and Southgate has also proven to not be a dick, of course they're not going to throw him under the bus by revealing he'd been slacking with his homework or had a bust up with the coaching staff. Of course they're going to be diplomatic about it and protect the player and the rest of the squad, fringe player or not. 18 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: Player will have friends in the squad, would be really odd to thrown him under the bus while the tournament is still ongoing. Also you can 100% believe what the Star have written and also know it won't be the whole story. Could be other issues surrounding him falling out with people that you have to respect. Big gap between choosing not to throw someone under the bus and his clubmates going out of their way to signal they're with him as if he's got emotional/family issues rather than disciplinary ones. Not like Southgate hasn't gone public with disciplinary decisions before either This just feels like a bit of journalistic licence on the already trending "Ben doesn't even like football" rumour, and comes from a source that makes the Sun look a newspaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Ben White immediately became close with Kalvin Phillips when they met at Leeds and afaik are still close, so I'm definitely not buying the idea that he was some kind of arse who didn't like any of his teammates. Phillips' definitely the type to try and get him involved with other groups and mixing as well, so if he hasn't it suggests some other issue. Star story definitely feels like it's adding 2+2 and getting 157. Might have had a bit of a tiff with Holland or something but I doubt that's why the sent him home. As others have pointed out, it just doesn't line up with a lot of things and you'd think it would be all over the place if it was because of that instead of just in the Star. I can believe an argument with Holland and them seeing that as a sign that there's something not right with him and going from there, but I'd be really surprised if the story is the whole truth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillHoward42 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 20 hours ago, Heartwork said: Fair point and part of why I think he should stay at Dortmund a little longer so he's away from the UK tabloids. I’m sure it plays a part, but biggest issue is Alli was overrated and overhyped in the first place. Always was bang average. I imagine the realisation of this has helped to deteriorate his ability/ambition quicker than usual. Dread to think what it must feel like to think you’re up there as a superstar to then be brought back down to earth to see you are just an average player. Press/social media is always going to be toxic. I think younger players are protected better and brought up better to block that our though. Players like Saka and Rashford have been phenomenal given the bashing they received online following the EUROs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) If there is a personal reason for his absence, which as far as we *know* there may be and it could be anything (mental health, family issues etc), then I think it would be pretty poor to give this Daily Star report any credence at all to be honest. Can you imagine how those reports might be affecting White if they are inaccurate and he is suffering some kind of personal trauma? Edited December 9, 2022 by Smallen 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_fenton Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Weezer said: The truth, as usual, probably somewhere in the middle. I hate that phrase, because quite a lot (most?) of the time one side is telling the truth, and the other is not. A little bit US Politics "both sides have good points" for my liking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, m_fenton said: I hate that phrase, because quite a lot (most?) of the time one side is telling the truth, and the other is not. A little bit US Politics "both sides have good points" for my liking! Not really, one side is telling us one thing and the other is telling us absolutely nothing at this point. I’m not making any assumptions either way, whereas everybody else has immediately gone on the defensive for Team White. For me any of the rumours we’ve heard so far could be true, but then I’m a cynic and prefer not to 100% believe either side of a debate until I’m shown proof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Eveyone hasn't gone on the defensive for team White it's a basic balance of probability. The only thing we have so far is one piece, from known rubbish journalist, from a known rubbish paper; Vs everything else. The two sides just aren't equal right now. You've have different responses if it was written by someone like Daniel Taylor or Orstein. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 There's England pressers later. You'd think this would come up if there is any substance to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_fenton Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just now, Weezer said: Not really, one side is telling us one thing and the other is telling us absolutely nothing at this point. I’m not making any assumptions either way, whereas everybody else has immediately gone on the defensive for Team White. For me any of the rumours we’ve heard so far could be true, but then I’m a cynic and prefer not to 100% believe either side of a debate until I’m shown proof. One side shouldn't feel the need to come out answering every "alleged" incident to trash like the Daily Star though It's an older story, but this is the paper in question: https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2010/oct/15/dailystar-richard-desmond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Also they're not saying nothing. They have already said it was a personal issue, in a way that suggests somethings not well nd requires support Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said: Also they're not saying nothing. They have already said it was a personal issue, in a way that suggests somethings not well nd requires support Of course they are, personal reasons is a stock answer for a 100 different scenarios. It’s a standard statement. “Personal reasons” could be anything from mental health issues to a bust up with staff and anything in between. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamm90 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, Weezer said: Of course they are, personal reasons is a stock answer for a 100 different scenarios. It’s a standard statement. “Personal reasons” could be anything from mental health issues to a bust up with staff and anything in between. Exactly. If he's done something wrong, the FA aren't going to come out in the press and condemn him midway through a World Cup. The truth will come out after the tournament. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Adamm90 said: Exactly. If he's done something wrong, the FA aren't going to come out in the press and condemn him midway through a World Cup. The truth will come out after the tournament. That’s all I’m trying to say. I’m not wishing ill on him or hoping the tabloid reports are true. I just find it weird that people already seem to have made their minds up when other players wouldn’t get the same empathy. The official line when Ronaldo left United briefly in the summer was personal reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_fenton Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 With Ronaldo, the real reason was already know by everyone and being reported by everyone. With White, the only """"source"""" is the Daily Star. If more credible sources (ie, pretty much anyone) start reporting too then it becomes more credible. If the Daily Star told me the sky was blue, I'd pop outside to check. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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