Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Tyburn]

26 minutes ago, davehanson said:

And this is unnecessary too. 

Just because it is a game doesn't mean people shouldn't be upset or angry about it. It is belittling people. People shouldn't have a personal attack on the developers, but I see no reason not to criticise them, not sure what your issue is?

If I steal £30 from you what are you going to do? It's only £30 get over it?

No one has stolen anything. It’s a simulator. Not the real thing. 

There has been no deception. Be frustrated it’s not what you hoped for. But the bile I was commenting on is totally unwarranted. There was nothing constructive in it. 

[Tyburn]

15 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

How is everybody else's experience with 1on1's so far? In my experience they happen very rarely, I should say too rarely. In 4 matches I played there were a total of 2 1on1's for me, and 1 for my opponents, and all 3 were missed. Too small sample, but not encouraging so far. The conversion rate for 1on1's is imo an extremely important part of the ME for it to be a realistic simulation, as well as for the ME to provide a healthy mixture of types of goals. So far I scored goals from crosses, from long range, from nice cutbacks, from short passing in penalty box (I really like those), and 3 goals from penalties (too many penalties in 4 matches? I know small sample, just observing so far). No goals from indirect or direct free kicks in 4 matches, 1 from a corner. Breath of fresh air there  

I personally didn’t have a problem with 1v1’s. I did until I adapted my tactic. As soon as I minimised how many I was SEEING I started to notice I was converting roughly 50%. 

Not seeing anywhere near as many now unfortunately. Perhaps I’ll change my tactic to try and encourage more.

[bleventozturk]

2 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

I personally didn’t have a problem with 1v1’s. I did until I adapted my tactic. As soon as I minimised how many I was SEEING I started to notice I was converting roughly 50%. 

Not seeing anywhere near as many now unfortunately. Perhaps I’ll change my tactic to try and encourage more.

Me too, with 20.2.3 my ccc conversion rate was crazy high, like above 70%. But like you, my tactical setup was not creating many of those. The conversion rate shouldn't depend on how many you create an your tactic of course, a 1on1 is a 1on1 once it is created, but that's another topic. 

It's just now I'm seeing too few of them, and they are all missed so far, even though SI said they have improved finishing from 1on1's. Not seeing that. Shots from outside the box are still more lethal in my experience, which is absurd of course.

[davehanson]

21 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

No one has stolen anything. It’s a simulator. Not the real thing. 

There has been no deception. Be frustrated it’s not what you hoped for. But the bile I was commenting on is totally unwarranted. There was nothing constructive in it. 

Bile? It wasnt a necessary comment, but bile? Nah.

[Lucas]

Keep it on topic please, rather than this back and forth. Thanks.

[bahmet]

Why, when I use plans for a match, the assistant does not make replacements? Using the "Instant Result" button.

[bleventozturk]

In my 6th match I finally saw a 1on1 being converted. It was against my team, and I have probably never been this happy about conceding a goal lol.

Up until that one, I saw a total of 7 1on1's missed between my teams and opponents. So the conversion rate so far is 12%. Not looking good, and I wonder what SI's 'improved 1on1 finishing' claim is based on. Having said that, I  must admit that it is still a small sample, and I will keep counting. 

Other than that, and slightly overpowered looking long shots, it is an enjoyable ME. 

[Tiger666]

Seems to be going ok, still too many goals from set pieces.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Tiger666

[Rashidi]

9 hours ago, thiagoanjo said:

he FIFA pattern isnt official? Shouldnt all the clubs be obligated to have the pattern? 

The dimensions are a guide, they set upper and lower limits and clubs can choose to do what they want. For international matches I think IFAB standardised it in 2008 to 105x68m, but club competitions are not constrained as such, and they have a more generous range they can work within. 

[kiwityke1983]

Updates - literal first news item:

"Takeover is happening and the new consortium wants to replace the current manager (IE me)" 

(I'm about 8 seasons in and have won 2 continental comps with an unfancied team) 

Total coincidence and the takeover collapsed but I'm sure there is a let's antagonise the player setting I've missed in FM20 and it's dialled to 11 at the minute haha. 

[Maldini's Heir]

4 hours ago, Bry said:

This is unnecessarily nasty. You actually made some interesting points further on. You clearly know that SI have ‘seen a game of football’. I don’t know what people hope to achieve by spouting such vitriol. 

Sorry if people were offended.

The reference to never seeing a game is, of course, metaphorical. 

And my frustration is not even leveled at SI but the year 2020 and the state of computer games. I could go further and criticise the whole of humanity for failing to build a moon colony but that would certainly be off topic......

[thiagoanjo]

44 minutos atrás, Rashidi disse:

The dimensions are a guide, they set upper and lower limits and clubs can choose to do what they want. For international matches I think IFAB standardised it in 2008 to 105x68m, but club competitions are not constrained as such, and they have a more generous range they can work within. 

Such a shame.

[dannysheard]

4 hours ago, sidslayer said:

I personally didn’t have a problem with 1v1’s. I did until I adapted my tactic. As soon as I minimised how many I was SEEING I started to notice I was converting roughly 50%. 

Not seeing anywhere near as many now unfortunately. Perhaps I’ll change my tactic to try and encourage more.

Just to confirm, you deliberately sabotaged your tactic to create less chance as the game then let’s you score more? #cannotwaittoplay

[saihtam]

6 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

I take it as a complement that you think i've built a really strong starting eleven, but I wouldn't consider Manchester united as an elite team to go from the get go, I could think of 10 teams better to start with than Manchester united, I just picked a team at random for the new patch and I can think of so many more desirable teams to go to be honest.

I would be more interested in knowing how did you managed to play already one season on the new patch so fast? Using instant, vacation, only commentary?

[Tyburn]

1 hour ago, dannysheard said:

Just to confirm, you deliberately sabotaged your tactic to create less chance as the game then let’s you score more? #cannotwaittoplay

I’ve been over this so many times.

I didn’t sabotage my tactic. I tweaked it to create BETTER 1v1’s.

The game seems (seemed) to distinguish between good 1v1 chances and more tricky 1v1 chances.

We see ALL of them, which gives the impression they’re being missed all the time. We see a 1v1 and think “this is a good chance”. The game doesn’t, necessarily.

Of course, it doesn’t look pretty to our viewing eyes. 

I believe SI have tweaked this now. So now you’ll only see “good” 1v1 chances. Which is probably why some people are saying they’re not seeing many anymore.

This is all just my opinion. But when I tweaked my tactic on the last version of the ME, and started to SEE less 1v1’s, I was converting more of them.

 

[CleverLime]

If they fix the high amount of goals from Set Pieces it could be very good. Most of the goals in my matches came from set pieces ~80%.

[themadsheep2001]

Part of the issue in the last update was that there were a) too many 'one on one's' and b) too many chances being marked as that despite not really being them. This looks largely rectified. But also not all (big) chances are the same, and it's interesting sidslayer says the above, because Liverpool have been using shot analysis to do similar in real life, working better opportunities, rather than necessarily more. And it's clearly paying off. Would be nice if FM could make this easier with in game analysis tools, but I don't even look at the distinction between the type of chance, I simply look at all my shots on target in the box and look at if they are good enough. If I'm not creating enough of these I need to change something

[Tyburn]

17 minutes ago, CleverLime said:

If they fix the high amount of goals from Set Pieces it could be very good. Most of the goals in my matches came from set pieces ~80%.

You see, I’m not seeing this. I score a few set pieces but not 80%. Why is this?

Perhaps your set piece routines are Uber effective. Or your tactic doesn’t create enough good chances to score in open play, but the game recognises that your tactic is still solid so gives you some goals from elsewhere. I don’t know. But if it was me, I’d try and tweak my tactic to encourage more goals from open play. Same for if you’re conceding goals mainly from set pieces. I’d try and tweak my tactic.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by sidslayer

[Miravlix]

11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Part of the issue in the last update was that there were a) too many 'one on one's' and b) too many chances being marked as that despite not really being them. This looks largely rectified. But also not all (big) chances are the same, and it's interesting sidslayer says the above, because Liverpool have been using shot analysis to do similar in real life, working better opportunities, rather than necessarily more. And it's clearly paying off. Would be nice if FM could make this easier with in game analysis tools, but I don't even look at the distinction between the type of chance, I simply look at all my shots on target in the box and look at if they are good enough. If I'm not creating enough of these I need to change something

 

Just earlier I was wondering why we can't analyze GK's and focus on feat/hands depending on what the GK isn't good at. I would think that is something everyone does in real football.

[CleverLime]

1 minute ago, sidslayer said:

You see, I’m not seeing this. I score a few set pieces but not 80%. Why is this?

Perhaps your set piece routines are Uber effective. Or your tactic doesn’t create enough good chances to score in open play, but the game recognises that your tactic is still solid so gives you some goals from elsewhere. I don’t know. But if it was me, I’d try and tweak my tactic to encourage more goals from open play. Same for if you’re conceding goals mainly from set pieces. I’d try and tweak my tactic.

 

I'll try tweaking my tactic this weekend, but:

 

I played using two different saves, one with Real Madrid, and one with a new save in Vanarama South with a almost default gegenpress, and about 4/5 goals are either free kicks, corners, throw-ins.

[Mr Tonio]

Okay now, i've played around 20 match with the new ME, including 15 times the same match in extensive, tweaking my tactic just to observe and adjust. But it's hopeless. My opinion on this is: the successive previous ME were bad. This one is a little bit different bad. Sorry SI, i love you dearly, but you made a mess.

[CleverLime]

Just now, Mr Tonio said:

Okay now, i've played around 20 match with the new ME, including 15 times the same match in extensive, tweaking my tactic just to observe and adjust. But it's hopeless. My opinion on this is: the successive previous ME were bad. This one is a little bit different bad. Sorry SI, i love you dearly, but you made a mess.

Can you expand? What wrongs did you observe?

[Mr Tonio]

Just now, CleverLime said:

Can you expand? What wrongs did you observe?

No. Sorry, i mean, i won't. I'm too tired. I've open one thread on the bug forum about one of the issues. The others are documented for a long time now. I explained elsewhere what i think about gaming and feedback. I think the ME is giving very bad feedback, therefore is not a usefull tool, therefore generates frustration. etc. As a game, this year's FM is a bad one. It's ok, i will just stop playing. I hope SI can get a hold on this and do better next time.

[Novem9]

A lot of examples of broken possession when team which controllled game has 40-47% and lower team which have just 1-2 shots has 53-65%. It happens in EVERY match day.

I noticed this in first minutes after started to play. I just can't realize how so clear and so obvious bug was missed. 

[LucasBR]

Can anyone tell me if the English transfer window will be updated on the last patch or we'll have an update just for FM21? Thanks.

[Novem9]

3 минуты назад, LucasBR сказал:

Can anyone tell me if the English transfer window will be updated on the last patch or we'll have an update just for FM21? Thanks.

I asked about this in England research thread yesterday 

I hope it will. No see any reasons to skip this change in 20.3

[andu1]

37 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

A lot of examples of broken possession when team which controllled game has 40-47% and lower team which have just 1-2 shots has 53-65%. It happens in EVERY match day.

I noticed this in first minutes after started to play. I just can't realize how so clear and so obvious bug was missed. 

I also asked this question yesterday. The defensive/cautious teams have more possesion even if losing 4 or 5-0. And it's AI vs AI. what's going on, is pressing inneffective?

[Novem9]

9 минут назад, andu1 сказал:

I also asked this question yesterday. The defensive/cautious teams have more possesion even if losing 4 or 5-0. And it's AI vs AI. what's going on, is pressing inneffective?

Looks like AI take 'low-riskly' mentality is literally  they need to use any chance to run forward by empty spaces. But they play in possession in own defensive zone 

[Meraklija Vujevic]

2 hours ago, CleverLime said:

If they fix the high amount of goals from Set Pieces it could be very good. Most of the goals in my matches came from set pieces ~80%.

same goes with me

 

some games i saw 7 goals from set pieces

[thejay]

I think the me just cant cope with the new narrow defensive instructions which kills chance creation except for crosses and set pieces, to keep the goal numbers realistic lots of set pieces go in.

 

I played a few matches with the new me and all goals i scored or conceded were after a cross or a set piece , really not fun at all 

[craigcwwe]

2 hours ago, Novem9 said:

A lot of examples of broken possession when team which controllled game has 40-47% and lower team which have just 1-2 shots has 53-65%. It happens in EVERY match day.

I noticed this in first minutes after started to play. I just can't realize how so clear and so obvious bug was missed. 

 

1 hour ago, andu1 said:

I also asked this question yesterday. The defensive/cautious teams have more possesion even if losing 4 or 5-0. And it's AI vs AI. what's going on, is pressing inneffective?

Yep, also seeing the same. Not every match but a good %

1 hour ago, thejay said:

I think the me just cant cope with the new narrow defensive instructions which kills chance creation except for crosses and set pieces, to keep the goal numbers realistic lots of set pieces go in.

 

I played a few matches with the new me and all goals i scored or conceded were after a cross or a set piece , really not fun at all 

I was thinking about this yesterday, the lack of central play and the rush to get the ball wide as well as ignoring the through ball pass to the striker 9/10. It started in FM19 and that was when they brought in the new tactical option and you had the option to defend narrow/standard or wide.

Now I think what's happened is that say you're Man Utd, a big reputation team, 90% of your matches are going to be against team with a lower reputation to yours so they then set up in a low block narrow system and rarely go above standard, now balanced mentality therefore United in this example are in possession and they look to attack but they're met with a wall of all 11 players in front of them. No space in the middle so what option other than passing back do they have? Well spray it out wide, in FM19 when this happened you had the problem of the blocked crosses, over and over again. 

It's better in FM20 with this latest update but the issue is still there. What's better now is that more through ball attempts are being made and the finishing has been improved a notch but we're not seeing central play like we did in the ME of FM17 and 18. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by craigcwwe

[DasPadi]

So I finally got a chance to sit down with the new Match Engine last night and this morning.

Is it perfect? Well, no. Some of my pet peeves are still here. (i.e. fullbacks not attacking the byline and opting to pass back to a supporting midfielder rather than attempting a cross regardless of how many instructions I give imploring them not to do that. Players generously trapping the ball on the touchline for an opponent to take possession. Players with good dribbling ghosting through defenders)

But for the most part I am greatly encouraged with what I've seen. There is a lot more variety to the football I'm seeing.  It feels a lot closer to an interpretation of my tactics and instructions than previous versions of this game's ME were allowing me.

I'm only a half dozen or so games in, so there is plenty of time for some of the trends identified by other forum members to rear their heads (too many goals from set pieces, odd possession stats, overpowered long shots etc). However, I feel encouraged to really give this year's game a proper go and commit to a save for the first time. The consensus on here seems to be that this is the last ME update this year's game will be getting. Whilst I'm hoping for one or two further tweaks, this patch has been a big plus for me so far.

 

A couple of saucy goals in consecutive games played this morning -

 

 

[Sharkn20]

3 minutes ago, DasPadi said:

So I finally got a chance to sit down with the new Match Engine last night and this morning.

Is it perfect? Well, no. Some of my pet peeves are still here. (i.e. fullbacks not attacking the byline and opting to pass back to a supporting midfielder rather than attempting a cross regardless of how many instructions I give imploring them not to do that. Players generously trapping the ball on the touchline for an opponent to take possession. Players with good dribbling ghosting through defenders)

But for the most part I am greatly encouraged with what I've seen. There is a lot more variety to the football I'm seeing.  It feels a lot closer to an interpretation of my tactics and instructions than previous versions of this game's ME were allowing me.

I'm only a half dozen or so games in, so there is plenty of time for some of the trends identified by other forum members to rear their heads (too many goals from set pieces, odd possession stats, overpowered long shots etc). However, I feel encouraged to really give this year's game a proper go and commit to a save for the first time. The consensus on here seems to be that this is the last ME update this year's game will be getting. Whilst I'm hoping for one or two further tweaks, this patch has been a big plus for me so far.

 

A couple of saucy goals in consecutive games played this morning -

 

 

The 2nd goal is a travesti of defensive malcfunctioning... I mean the least the CB could've done is slide to block the cross, or the keeper rather than walk try to throw himself somewhere to intercept the pass or try to block the shot. That's the main problem of the ME, defense.

[DasPadi]

6 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

The 2nd goal is a travesti of defensive malcfunctioning... I mean the least the CB could've done is slide to block the cross, or the keeper rather than walk try to throw himself somewhere to intercept the pass or try to block the shot. That's the main problem of the ME, defense.

I mean, yeah the defending isn't great. But I've seen that once in 14 games under this match engine (and not at all in this year's game until this point). So I'm allowing myself the luxury of imagining that its the defence being caught out by a Pogba through ball, Martial catching the defender on his heels, beating him in a foot race and playing a nice pass across goal.

[Nil14]

17 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

The 2nd goal is a travesti of defensive malcfunctioning... I mean the least the CB could've done is slide to block the cross, or the keeper rather than walk try to throw himself somewhere to intercept the pass or try to block the shot. That's the main problem of the ME, defense.

I don't see anything wrong with the 2nd goal. A perfectly timed through ball that catches the defense by surprise. It happens. It should happen more in the game.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Nil14

[dannyfc]

I agree defending is fine in this example, they just get beat to the ball and caught out of position by a great pass. 

Without defensive lapses the vast majority of goals in real life wouldn't happen. 

Tbh I'd prefer more defensive errors and incentive for play in tight spaces rather than the mind numbing passes into wide spaces you see again and again. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by dannyfc

[bleventozturk]

1 hour ago, andu1 said:

I also asked this question yesterday. The defensive/cautious teams have more possesion even if losing 4 or 5-0. And it's AI vs AI. what's going on, is pressing inneffective?

Again, not seeing this in my matches. My team totally dominates the possession, around 70%, when I play against much weaker teams, who play defensive. If you see this in AI vs AI matches, I think that means it is maybe not an issue with the ME, but with AI's tactical choices. Pressing to win the ball back from defensive teams works for me in the 6 matches that I played.

[bleventozturk]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

Looks like AI take 'low-riskly' mentality is literally  they need to use any chance to run forward by empty spaces. But they play in possession in own defensive zone 

I agree with this. The mentality thing in FM does not always make much sense in how teams play. The ME needs an overhaul at some point, but there are also a lot of people who think the mentality system is just fine. 

[likesiamesefish]

4 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Again, not seeing this in my matches. My team totally dominates the possession, around 70%, when I play against much weaker teams, who play defensive. If you see this in AI vs AI matches, I think that means it is maybe not an issue with the ME, but with AI's tactical choices. Pressing to win the ball back from defensive teams works for me in the 6 matches that I played.

I play gengenpressing, have the best team in the world and possession is almost totally random IMO. I have games where I get 70% and games where I get as low as 35-40% with the same tactics. I'm sure SI must have acknowledged this as an issue as it is definitely a widespread issue where the AI just soaks up a bunch of useless possession. It doesn't tend to impact the result that much for me but it's def unrealistic.

[Novem9]

28 минут назад, DasPadi сказал:

So I finally got a chance to sit down with the new Match Engine last night and this morning.

Is it perfect? Well, no. Some of my pet peeves are still here. (i.e. fullbacks not attacking the byline and opting to pass back to a supporting midfielder rather than attempting a cross regardless of how many instructions I give imploring them not to do that. Players generously trapping the ball on the touchline for an opponent to take possession. Players with good dribbling ghosting through defenders)

But for the most part I am greatly encouraged with what I've seen. There is a lot more variety to the football I'm seeing.  It feels a lot closer to an interpretation of my tactics and instructions than previous versions of this game's ME were allowing me.

I'm only a half dozen or so games in, so there is plenty of time for some of the trends identified by other forum members to rear their heads (too many goals from set pieces, odd possession stats, overpowered long shots etc). However, I feel encouraged to really give this year's game a proper go and commit to a save for the first time. The consensus on here seems to be that this is the last ME update this year's game will be getting. Whilst I'm hoping for one or two further tweaks, this patch has been a big plus for me so far.

 

A couple of saucy goals in consecutive games played this morning -

 

 

the closer I look, the more disappointments

I played some games in FMT, there are fewer pauses between matches. My verdict is 'well its better 20.2 but...'
And very many 'but' tbh.

I don't know FM13 ME for example didnt perfect too but issues in 13 look not so critical. I feel that after FM20.3 will be released I will stop any activity in this forum - no feedbacks, no pkms, no bug reports, no discussions. Just will buy new version after last patch if it qualitative or willn't buy. 

[Sharkn20]

19 minutes ago, Nil14 said:

I don't see anything wrong with the 2nd goal. A perfectly timed through ball that catches the defense by surprise. It happens. I should happen more in the game.

Poor defensive effort, clearly.

[bleventozturk]

33 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

The 2nd goal is a travesti of defensive malcfunctioning... I mean the least the CB could've done is slide to block the cross, or the keeper rather than walk try to throw himself somewhere to intercept the pass or try to block the shot. That's the main problem of the ME, defense.

At this point I am ok tbh with the defenders looking incompetent sometimes if it means slightly better variety of goals. I prefer that to only seeing goals from set pieces. Yes, not ideal, but better than the alternative, for the sake of fun.

[Novem9]

4 минуты назад, bleventozturk сказал:

lot of people who think the mentality system is just fine.

Oh I'm from Russia so I know something about people who think about systems just fine 

[bleventozturk]

16 minutes ago, dannyfc said:

I agree defending is fine in this example, they just get beat to the ball and caught out of position by a great pass. 

Without defensive lapses the vast majority of goals in real life wouldn't happen. 

Tbh I'd prefer more defensive errors and incentive for play in tight spaces rather than the mind numbing passes into wide spaces you see again and again. 

This, 100%. The alternative is the complete dullness of FM 19.

[bleventozturk]

2 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Oh I'm from Russia so I know something about people who think about systems just fine 

Lol, true that. I am originally from Turkey (have been living in US most of my life) and I know exactly what you mean my friend . Trust me, our 'system' is even worse.

 

[andu1]

13 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Again, not seeing this in my matches. My team totally dominates the possession, around 70%, when I play against much weaker teams, who play defensive. If you see this in AI vs AI matches, I think that means it is maybe not an issue with the ME, but with AI's tactical choices. Pressing to win the ball back from defensive teams works for me in the 6 matches that I played.

I said AI VS AI 

 

Not user matches

[Nil14]

5 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Poor defensive effort, clearly.

That's football. 

[bleventozturk]

2 minutes ago, andu1 said:

I said AI VS AI 

 

Not user matches

Yes, I was not disagreeing with your post. 

[endtime]

This is an AI vs AI game, simulated in full detail. I watched the full game and the reason for the possession stats is that the Leicester back 4 + DM + keeper would just pass the ball to each other for minutes on end in their own half. Man Utd pressed high and the Leicester defence would just play the ball sideways or back. I counted over 40 passes before someone tried a more direct ball forward. Meanwhile Man Utd just played the ball directly forward/ran at the defence whenever they got the ball.

That being said, Leicester started playing more direct when several goals down and I think the possession stat might be a bit bugged, because what I saw certainly didn't look like a 60/40 split.

[andu1]

4 minutes ago, endtime said:

This is an AI vs AI game, simulated in full detail. I watched the full game and the reason for the possession stats is that the Leicester back 4 + DM + keeper would just pass the ball to each other for minutes on end in their own half. Man Utd pressed high and the Leicester defence would just play the ball sideways or back. I counted over 40 passes before someone tried a more direct ball forward. Meanwhile Man Utd just played the ball directly forward/ran at the defence whenever they got the ball.

That being said, Leicester started playing more direct when several goals down and I think the possession stat might be a bit bugged, because what I saw certainly didn't look like a 60/40 split.

Exactly what I am seeing, the weaker teams get destroyed while having 60% possesion. The better team does not put the opponents under enough pressure so they just pass the ball sideways.

 

What were the total number of passes of both teams by the way?

Edited February 7, 2020 by andu1