Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[bar333]

10 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's not impossible at all. 

Here's a question: how are you trying to break down a deep defence? Because playing as United, basically every defence is deep against me. And I sit (last time I checked) top of the table, without an over reliance on set pieces

If it's impossible then no one should able to do it. And yet people are. 

Any evidence of this? A video of an actually good, intricate team goal against the laughably deep and narrow 10 men behind the ball, 8 on the edge of the box 4-4-2 nonsense that the AI adores so much?

Because here's the thing about FM19 - all us plebs ever get from the staunch defenders of the ME are "I have no problem with this, it's your tactics", but I have not once seen evidence of any of the claims made. This is in stark contrast to pages upon pages upon pages of evidence displaying just how poor this ME actually is. At best I'm told to go check out Rashidi's videos where I see him breaking down parked buses with... umm... yeah, set pieces and long range goals, and him proceeding to pretend that making X tactical change made him score this free kick. I have huge respect for the guy, am a subscriber on his channel etc, but I mean, come on.

I sit top of the table as well, with Stuttgart rather than Manchester United. What does that tell me, or you? Nothing. Success in FM isn't and never was a metric for anything, people achieve it with substandard tactics that make no sense. One recurring theme in these discussions is people always jump to assume that the people complaining are just not getting results and blame the game when often results are completely besides the point. I too win most games against parked buses else I would not be top of the table since out of 34 BuLi games in a season I face a parked bus in what feels like 23 (15 home games against anyone but Bayern and Dortmund, away games vs the bottom half. Talked about frequency of parked buses plenty). But it does not look like anything resembling the number of ways used by the bigger teams IRL to intricately unlock a packed defence. It's random and unsatisfying and that is the crux of the issue - it's an absolute borefest. Replace some of the many 0-0's in this game with some actually decent games of football and I'd be happy even if they're still draws and don't change the points tally. This is anti entertainment. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by bar333

[stevemc]

The FA Cup football appears really difficult to see, anyone else finding this?

[themadsheep2001]

21 minutes ago, bar333 said:

Any evidence of this? A video of an actually good, intricate team goal against the laughably deep and narrow 10 men behind the ball, 8 on the edge of the box 4-4-2 nonsense that the AI adores so much?

Because here's the thing about FM19 - all us plebs ever get from the staunch defenders of the ME are "I have no problem with this, it's your tactics", but I have not once seen evidence of any of the claims made. This is in stark contrast to pages upon pages upon pages of evidence displaying just how poor this ME actually is. At best I'm told to go check out Rashidi's videos where I see him breaking down parked buses with... umm... yeah, set pieces and long range goals, and him proceeding to pretend that making X tactical change made him score this free kick. I have huge respect for the guy, am a subscriber on his channel etc, but I mean, come on.

I sit top of the table as well, with Stuttgart rather than Manchester United. What does that tell me, or you? Nothing. Success in FM isn't and never was a metric for anything, people achieve it with substandard tactics that make no sense. One recurring theme in these discussions is people always jump to assume that the people complaining are just not getting results and blame the game when often results are completely besides the point. I too win most games against parked buses else I would not be top of the table since out of 34 BuLi games in a season I face a parked bus in what feels like 23 (15 home games against anyone but Bayern and Dortmund, away games vs the bottom half. Talked about frequency of parked buses plenty). But it does not look like anything resembling the number of ways used by the bigger teams IRL to intricately unlock a packed defence. It's random and unsatisfying and that is the crux of the issue - it's an absolute borefest. Replace some of the many 0-0's in this game with some actually decent games of football and I'd be happy even if they're still draws and don't change the points tally. This is anti entertainment. 

As I've said twice. Rashidi has loads of videos of it, thee isn't another user who has got as many videos and unless you're willing to wait a week for me to come back from holiday, he's your best shot. Another user has just posted his own setup. 

If you actually read what people said rather than looking at everything in such a hostile binary way, you'd realise it's not about defending anything, in my last bunch of posts alone I've spoken about a need for further movement  . As soon as some starts saying "you're just defending etc" it tells me they are only reading what they want to read, at which point that's not someone I'm willing to keep discussing points with as its a waste of time. 

If you think he only breaks them down with set pieces and long shots then frankly you're not paying attention, to the point where I'll quote @Rashidi himself to directly show you himself. 

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, stevemc said:

The FA Cup football appears really difficult to see, anyone else finding this?

Think this has been raised. But not sure. Definitely worth posting in the bugs forum. 

[bar333]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

As I've said twice. Rashidi has loads of videos of it, thee isn't another user who has got as many videos and unless you're willing to wait a week for me to come back from holiday, he's your best shot. Another user has just posted his own setup. 

If you actually read what people said rather than looking at everything in such a hostile binary way, you'd realise it's not about defending anything, in my last bunch of posts alone I've spoken about a need for further movement  . As soon as some starts saying "you're just defending etc" it tells me they are only reading what they want to read, at which point that's not someone I'm willing to keep discussing points with as its a waste of time. 

If you think he only breaks them down with set pieces and long shots then frankly you're not paying attention, to the point where I'll quote @Rashidi himself to directly show you himself. 

So basically the point is what? You need to be Rashidi to break down a parked bus? Or does it merely require being part of the 0.5% who watch his channel? Of which I'm a part btw. I watch his videos and have been a subscriber for yearsand evidently am still not good enough at tactics to break down a parked bus. So it the case that I'm simply too stupid? Is there also a baseline of football intelligence that must be reached to enjoy FM19?

Where are all these other people providing any tiny bit of evidence? I've been waiting since October. 

I said this before and I'll say it again. If you need a PhD in FM tactics to enjoy the game, then the game is a complete and utter failure at it's most basic function which is to entertain. This is not really the case and never has been though. 

I have poured hours upon hours into this nonsense. I followed advice from the tactics forum and used my own limited knowledge from years of playing FM. I know how to not congest space and pin a defensive team into their own box. I have adjusted and tweaked my tactics so many times over that it's honestly ludicrous and it looks exactly, precisely the same every single time. I'm not just tweaking things and forgetting, I watch on comprehensive highlights and sometimes full match and see full well that the reasons it's impossible to break down a parked bus have nothing to do with tactics and absolutely everything to do with the match engine and it's false nines standing like a stump in the box and playing on the shoulder of the defender, wide players being unable to put a cross past the fullback, players turning at the speed of a WW1-era tank so any space that does open up very frequently does not get exploited quickly enough. 

I'm now on the back of a second successive 0-0 at home with the opposition not registering a single shot on goal (that's right - not on target, on goal) having tried during the game pretty much every bit of common wisdom on how to break a parked bus that you'll find in the tactics forum and seeing the effects for myself and yeah, I'm done looking at tactics. 

This is all just the sum of one person's experiences, mine. There's a sizable portion of the userbase here who all have the same issues probably using completely different tactics to mine. But there isn't a problem at all because the ultra knowledgable tactical gurus can make it work somehow?

No use mincing words here - most people who play FM are football plebs with very little knowledge of tactics. But that is the lion's share of the playerbase, those are the people SI develop the game for and sell it to. If those people can't enjoy it then it has failed, regardless of how much more realistic the tactical gurus think the ME is now. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by bar333

[themadsheep2001]

53 minutes ago, bar333 said:

So basically the point is what? You need to be Rashidi to break down a parked bus? Or does it merely require being part of the 0.5% who watch his channel? Where are all these other people providing any tiny bit of evidence? I've been waiting since October. 

I said this before and I'll say it again. If you need a PhD in FM tactics to enjoy the game, then the game is a complete and utter failure at it's most basic function which is to entertain. This is not really the case and never has been though. 

I have poured hours upon hours into this nonsense. I followed advice from the tactics forum and used my own limited knowledge from years of playing FM. I know how to not congest space and pin a defensive team into their own box. I have adjusted and tweaked my tactics so many times over that it's honestly ludicrous and it looks exactly, precisely the same every single time. I'm not just tweaking things and forgetting, I watch on comprehensive highlights and sometimes full match and see full well that the reasons it's impossible to break down a parked bus have nothing to do with tactics and absolutely everything to do with the match engine and it's false nines standing like a stump in the box and playing on the shoulder of the defender, wide players being unable to put a cross past the fullback, players turning at the speed of a WW1-era tank so any space that does open up very frequently does not get exploited quickly enough. 

I'm now on the back of a second successive 0-0 at home with the opposition not registering a single shot on goal (that's right - not on target, on goal) having tried during the game pretty much every bit of common wisdom on how to break a parked bus that you'll find in the tactics forum and yeah, I'm done looking at tactics. 

This is all just the sum of one person's experiences, mine. There's a sizable portion of the userbase here who all have the same issues probably using completely different tactics to mine. But there isn't a problem at all because the ultra knowledgable tactical gurus can make it work somehow?

You don't need a PhD to play this game. Thats evidenced by the tactics forum itself. That's evidenced by one user above actually posting his setup in this thread already, you say you've been waiting for October, he's literally posted today.

There's a sizable portion of the user base who don't have these problems. And their experiences are just as valid as yours. You say it's impossible in your experience, I say it's possible in mine, David says it's possible in his, summatspeer says it's possible in his, rosler says it's possible in his. I don't think any would claim to be "tactical gurus"

There's definitely a user who posted a bunch of YouTube videos in this thread as well. He name eludes me. 

And ultimately in a situation where people's experiences are so differing, to the point of extreme as evidenced in the this thread, it's often forgotten that SI have their own views and experiences too. 

And unless you can say we have the collective experience of the fan base, which we don't, since we don't even have the collective experience of the forum, which is a minority of the playerbase itself, it's impossible to say those people can't enjoy it. 

As I've mentioned before, I'd be genuinely interested in having a look at the saves and Pkms of those who find it impossible. Because it's definitely achievable for others, at least. 

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, bar333 said:

No use mincing words here - most people who play FM are football plebs with very little knowledge of tactics. But that is the lion's share of the playerbase, those are the people SI develop the game for and sell it to. If those people can't enjoy it then it has failed,

While i see you are trying to get to grips with the game ( re: your posts in the T&TF), I have to add that this may be too simplistic a view. Over the years the game has evolved, tactical styles have also changed somewhat. A couple of years ago, one could play a simple game of wing based play with a simple attacking setup, or go for a possession styled game which would depend on some kind of movement that was made easier by opposition's simplistic pressing. There was no line of engagement and defensive shape. You want to play a tucked in defence, your only choice go defensive. 

My posts back then featured tactics that were simple, the notion of overloading space to drive one v ones wasn't even a discussion topic in the 90s. Granted the game was different back then too, without roles and duties. Heavy customisation, allowed us to create systems that the AI would never play. 

Football has changed in the last 15 years, the fox in the box, has been replaced by the man in the hole. Tactics have become more intricate, nearly every side has a tactical plan to press. You even see sides playing disciplined packed defences with 3 or 4 players trying to hit on the break, changing to a high press mid-stream and then going back to sitting deep. The lads at SI are challenged each and every year to produce a game that somehow allows us to see these kind of styles, better still try and play these kind of styles. You can see how some managers like Jose Mourinho are quickly being left behind as they fail to adapt, and the devs are trying to reflect that when they set the game up. Is it working? This is always going to be a work in progress, as replicating human perfection is impossible to code in a binary system. We can try to come close and thats where SI always asks for PKM examples from people who are producing weird behaviour in their games. That simply happens because not everyone plays the game in the same way.

I don't know if you were around back when it was FM12, or FM08, I can't really remember which edition it was, but the match engine was so easy, it was laughable. There was no hardly any challenge in bringing a non league side to Europe in consecutive seasons, literally anyone could do it. Here, though, the game will fail at being a replication of human behaviour, that simply doesn't happen every Sunday of the year. The AI for years was a punching bag, defensive football was non existent. You could pummel any side into submission. I once took Wolves and pummelled Real Madrid 8-0 in their first competitive fixture in Europe. Wolves were a championship side, playing in Europe. Was the game an accurate reflection? In fact, the forums were flooded with posts lamenting how uninteresting the game was. Fast forward - now finally the AI can defend. 

Naturally SI are keen on fixing issues like potential exploits, cos they don't want to see someone beat Real Madrid using Wolves with 8 set pieces in one game.  They want more realistic attacking movement through the middle, but they also want to capture how hard it is to do if the defence is packed. Average managers who think quality alone will suffice will struggle as they need to think like Tuchel, Klopp, Bielsa and some of the current wizards of the game. The AI has a plan, some AI managers actually start on very attacking mentalities out of the gate. That actually happened in one game, taking me by surprise, the side scored a goal and went into a huddle almost immediately. This is the next challenge for SI. to give these defensive sides some variety. There have to be some managers in the game who are willing to come out of the huddle, and this is going to be another tough nut for them to crack, it still doesn't happen enough for my liking. 

At the moment, it is difficult to break these sides down, i have to admit. I reckon that SI want to balance this difficulty somewhat, but i don't think they intend to make it easy enough for any tactical system to do it. It needs to be well thought out, and rewarding to achieve, so I doubt the average player who plunks a system together with United or LFC will achieve it. And i doubt they are using the metric for success you suggest. Is the match engine perfect now? Nope, but hell it's fun when a plan comes together.

Edit: One example @cocoadavid for example, his system is well thought out. I actually like it. It is a 4141 in defence, but a very potent 325 in attack. If he camps the movement will be interesting to see as his system gives him multiple routes to goal. And i am really happy to see people who come up with nice little systems which are imaginative.

[bleventozturk]

Like Rashidi and themadsheep say, the AI can finally defend SOME, and also a defensive approach is now a viable option for human players too, and I love this ME for that. I am just waiting for a better balancing in type of goals, to completely enjoy this game. I said it before, when I watch a single match, it is a brilliant ME for me. But when I just watch JUST the goals in 20-30 consecutive AI vs AI matches, you start seeing the repetitions/heavy trend (set pieces and long distance shots), and it is easy to see where the next patch needs to focus. I hope SI will tweak things just a little in the right direction, without going backwards and killing the defensive game.

Edited December 29, 2018 by bleventozturk

[rafaelbenitez]

I'm enjoying this version a lot but there does seem to be a problem with the AI being far too defensive when they shouldn't be. For example, I'm playing as Roma, 27 games gone in the season, we're top of the league and traveling to 3rd place Juve who are 5 points behind. You'd imagine they'd treat this as must win considering they were dumped out of the CL the week prior and this is how it played out:

They had only 3 efforts on goal, with just one on target and barring Ronaldo, that is a pretty strong team. In the end, it was a comfortable result and a good draw for me but there is no way that Juve should have been happy with a point but they played like they were.

[westy8chimp]

7 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

There's a sizable portion of the user base who don't have these problems. And their experiences are just as valid as yours. You say it's impossible in your experience, I say it's possible in mine, David says it's possible in his, summatspeer says it's possible in his, rosler says it's possible in his. I don't think any would claim to be "tactical gurus"

I agree with majority of what you are saying. And a lot of the criticism is over the top. 

Also fwiw @summatsupeer is definitely a tactical guru 

I still think, however, the finer points to exploits or overpower/underpower aspects will always get lost in argument. Naturally some users won't have an issue... Half of users tactics, by luck or design, will prevent the opponent having too many long shots, and perhaps your own formation also doesn't have a bbm consistently in the hole to bang them in... So that half of the user base doesn't see long shots as an issue. Doesn't mean they aren't... Some good examples now being provided based on both comparison by % and unreal goal returns for bbm/DLP etc. I find it hard under any tactical reasoning to justify a DLP scoring 9 long shots in, what was quoted? 17 games? And 14 goals in total... Maybe pens or free kicks too... Or maybe scoring so many long shots is boosting morale so high the player is becoming Godly.

Yes I can deploy a formation... And we discussed this briefly yesterday, to prevent long shots... But I don't think that should be the aim of fm? Win the league with the worst team just by not allowing the AI long shots, whilst maximising your own. 

It would be akin to the early fifa games on snes and mega drive where there was a certain diagonal shot from the touchline pretty much in line with the 18 yard line that went in the near post evrry time... So the game was about stopping the opponent getting to that spot (who cares if they have a one vs one from 8 yards)... 

[bar333]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

While i see you are trying to get to grips with the game ( re: your posts in the T&TF), I have to add that this may be too simplistic a view. Over the years the game has evolved, tactical styles have also changed somewhat. A couple of years ago, one could play a simple game of wing based play with a simple attacking setup, or go for a possession styled game which would depend on some kind of movement that was made easier by opposition's simplistic pressing. There was no line of engagement and defensive shape. You want to play a tucked in defence, your only choice go defensive. 

My posts back then featured tactics that were simple, the notion of overloading space to drive one v ones wasn't even a discussion topic in the 90s. Granted the game was different back then too, without roles and duties. Heavy customisation, allowed us to create systems that the AI would never play. 

Football has changed in the last 15 years, the fox in the box, has been replaced by the man in the hole. Tactics have become more intricate, nearly every side has a tactical plan to press. You even see sides playing disciplined packed defences with 3 or 4 players trying to hit on the break, changing to a high press mid-stream and then going back to sitting deep. The lads at SI are challenged each and every year to produce a game that somehow allows us to see these kind of styles, better still try and play these kind of styles. You can see how some managers like Jose Mourinho are quickly being left behind as they fail to adapt, and the devs are trying to reflect that when they set the game up. Is it working? This is always going to be a work in progress, as replicating human perfection is impossible to code in a binary system. We can try to come close and thats where SI always asks for PKM examples from people who are producing weird behaviour in their games. That simply happens because not everyone plays the game in the same way.

I don't know if you were around back when it was FM12, or FM08, I can't really remember which edition it was, but the match engine was so easy, it was laughable. There was no hardly any challenge in bringing a non league side to Europe in consecutive seasons, literally anyone could do it. Here, though, the game will fail at being a replication of human behaviour, that simply doesn't happen every Sunday of the year. The AI for years was a punching bag, defensive football was non existent. You could pummel any side into submission. I once took Wolves and pummelled Real Madrid 8-0 in their first competitive fixture in Europe. Wolves were a championship side, playing in Europe. Was the game an accurate reflection? In fact, the forums were flooded with posts lamenting how uninteresting the game was. Fast forward - now finally the AI can defend. 

Naturally SI are keen on fixing issues like potential exploits, cos they don't want to see someone beat Real Madrid using Wolves with 8 set pieces in one game.  They want more realistic attacking movement through the middle, but they also want to capture how hard it is to do if the defence is packed. Average managers who think quality alone will suffice will struggle as they need to think like Tuchel, Klopp, Bielsa and some of the current wizards of the game. The AI has a plan, some AI managers actually start on very attacking mentalities out of the gate. That actually happened in one game, taking me by surprise, the side scored a goal and went into a huddle almost immediately. This is the next challenge for SI. to give these defensive sides some variety. There have to be some managers in the game who are willing to come out of the huddle, and this is going to be another tough nut for them to crack, it still doesn't happen enough for my liking. 

At the moment, it is difficult to break these sides down, i have to admit. I reckon that SI want to balance this difficulty somewhat, but i don't think they intend to make it easy enough for any tactical system to do it. It needs to be well thought out, and rewarding to achieve, so I doubt the average player who plunks a system together with United or LFC will achieve it. And i doubt they are using the metric for success you suggest. Is the match engine perfect now? Nope, but hell it's fun when a plan comes together.

Edit: One example @cocoadavid for example, his system is well thought out. I actually like it. It is a 4141 in defence, but a very potent 325 in attack. If he camps the movement will be interesting to see as his system gives him multiple routes to goal. And i am really happy to see people who come up with nice little systems which are imaginative.

I appreciate the effort you put into the post and I definitely agree with some of your points, especially that the game used to be too easy in parts (I've played since FM09 and back in those early days I remember how easy it was for a Gerrard-Torres esque 10 & quick nine partnership to score the same goal 60 times a season).

However you seem to agree with my bottom line which is that it's too difficult to break down parked defences. It's not a question of results and never has been for me as my grip on tactics, basic as it is, was sufficient to always do well in FM19 when you look at the big picture, at least with a select few formations that I somewhat understand and have always defaulted to. It's in those isolated games against packed defenses where I feel like my enjoyment of the game is being killed as I can't seem to affect things tactically. In those situations where you have 6-8 players narrowly defending the edge of the box players just seem clueless and there seems to be no way through because of issues I mentioned in the ME - I'm sure you'll agree that breaking down a packed defence comes down to moving the defenders around, that can't happen when my attacking players are so static in their movement and just stand on the edge of the box during build up.

My experience with those games is that if I do get that plucky 1-0 from a set piece or whatever then the game might open up and I usually win it by more than that one goal, but if we don't luck out from a set piece or a long range shot then nothing happens from open play and you get those infuriating 0-0's which are all carbon copies of each other over 90 mins. When teams give you some space then the ME in it's current iteration can be enjoyable and maybe even a bit too easy still, my team beat Bayern Munich 7-0 at our place in a freak result that I can't figure out how it happened and at the same time drew 0-0 at home 3 times already and it's only November, the whole thing feels out of touch. I complain about the ME not because I can't get results but precisely because I feel the game doesn't feel rewarding or satisfying as you say.

I'm active in the tactics forum and no one can say I'm just complaining without having actually tried to figure out where my tactics are wrong. Here I'll agree with @westy8chimp that @summatsupeer is a tactical guru, at least to a pleb like me (I don't know if he considers himself such) - he's helped me so much both directly and in that I always look for his insight and try to learn from it. I can genuinely say I have a deeper understanding now than I did in October when I first came up with a tactic to do what I want in my save. But this is the first FM that has made me feel like no matter how much effort I put into understanding tactics there are issues that always rear their ugly head again and again and upon looking at things in full match view I've concluded they're not down to tactics.

I might have another go at seeking help in the tactics forum but honestly at this point it all feels pointless to do. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by bar333

[Viking]

I'm not saying there's not a problem with the ME, but my strikers scores plenty of goals and I have had no problems with long shots so far. Could be pure luck, though. I am absolute crap when it comes to tactics. I only use a possession based 4-2-3-1 and shift between defensive and optimistic approach depending on who I play against.

[rdbayly]

39 minutes ago, bar333 said:

Attacking players are so static in their movement and just stand on the edge of the box during build up.

This is crippling attacking play. Striker movement in the early stages of attacks when the ball is in the middle third, is decent (especially on the counter). However; when the ball transitions into the final third, strikers take up and and remain in unreachable positions, often on the shoulder of centre backs. This is the when the lack of dropping off / lateral movement blunts attacks, and is where poor distinction between striker roles is felt most acutely.

Edited December 29, 2018 by rdbayly

[themadsheep2001]

2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

I agree with majority of what you are saying. And a lot of the criticism is over the top. 

Also fwiw @summatsupeer is definitely a tactical guru 

I still think, however, the finer points to exploits or overpower/underpower aspects will always get lost in argument. Naturally some users won't have an issue... Half of users tactics, by luck or design, will prevent the opponent having too many long shots, and perhaps your own formation also doesn't have a bbm consistently in the hole to bang them in... So that half of the user base doesn't see long shots as an issue. Doesn't mean they aren't... Some good examples now being provided based on both comparison by % and unreal goal returns for bbm/DLP etc. I find it hard under any tactical reasoning to justify a DLP scoring 9 long shots in, what was quoted? 17 games? And 14 goals in total... Maybe pens or free kicks too... Or maybe scoring so many long shots is boosting morale so high the player is becoming Godly.

Yes I can deploy a formation... And we discussed this briefly yesterday, to prevent long shots... But I don't think that should be the aim of fm? Win the league with the worst team just by not allowing the AI long shots, whilst maximising your own. 

It would be akin to the early fifa games on snes and mega drive where there was a certain diagonal shot from the touchline pretty much in line with the 18 yard line that went in the near post evrry time... So the game was about stopping the opponent getting to that spot (who cares if they have a one vs one from 8 yards)... 

That's why I said it would be good to see some detailed. assessments. Not just stats but Pkms, how and why those long shots are being scored. 

I take back @summatsupeer I've done you a disservice 👍

[summatsupeer]

Dont worry about it, whilst nice to know i've helped I dont think i'm a guru and I certainly don't know the engine as well as others hence don't typically get involved in those discussions.

i've played since championship manager , when there were slides and tons of options but all you had to analyse things was basic stats and text commentary, i'd get frustrated at the game (and often blame it) cos I couldn't win things with my team full of great players.  From that i've learnt to be patient and methodically test and get less frustrated, separating tactical issues from execution issues. In the old days you could download a tactic and plug pretty much any players into it and win, some years pace was dominant, another it was possession, so I think things are a lot better and players have a big effect and rightly so imo, bigger names or more stars doesn't mean they'll be better, depends on the balance of the player, traits and hidden attribute that the scout reports will tell you.

[iiMStevo]

Game engine seems to be compensating massively.
I can play a game and go 4-0 up in the first 15 minutes after 4-6 shots, and then for the remainder of the match I have the annoying goal cam where it shows the ball not crossing the line, or I hit the woodwork about 10-15 times, or my players don't land another shot on target, or their goal-keeper all of a sudden becomes the greatest goalkeeper on the planet.
Meanwhile, they'll have 2 shots on target the whole match and likely score 1 or 2 goals.

I've won my last 10 games or so 4-0, 4-1, 4-2... but it seems to be capped to be more realistic.
It would be more realistic if my squad of 11 world class players could smash burnley 10-0. Just because I've basically dominated the EPL, doesn't mean my team shouldn't be able to score goals consistently when the tactics allow for it in the first 15 minutes, then seem to panic and start banging every other shot off the woodwork. I think maybe 1 in 10 games allows me to breach the 5-x barrier, where as realistically my squad should be getting double figures on goals at the same rate with the teams they're coming up against. I typically beat Liverpool, Man City and Arsenal 3-0... and Spurs and chelsea are anywhere from 4-0 to 6-0... so if my team can consistently do that season after season against the other top six, why can't I completely destroy the teams in the bottom six?

 

EDIT:
Also defenders that have 15-20 yards of space heading the ball "clear", to actually only be heading the ball to their advancing attackers and midfielders changes what should be an easy control the ball, and pass it scenario into a dangerous 4 on 4 counter attack for the opposing team. I mean for a professional footballer that's paid £300k/week, you'd think it's common sense not to set the opposing team up after nearly every goal kick. Is there an option I'm missing that you need to select that says "Don't be an idiot" for defenders?

Edited December 29, 2018 by iiMStevo

[CFuller]

The biggest win in the 27-season history of the Premier League is 9-0. Manchester City's biggest league wins last season were 6-0 (at Watford), 5-0 (vs Crystal Palace) and 7-2 (vs Stoke).

You can add to that the fact that bottom-six teams will naturally be more tactically cautious against your team and will try their level best not to get humiliated. It is - quite simply - not realistic to expect 10-0s against them (unless Burnley happen to have a squad full of National League North players).

[rp1966]

1 hour ago, CFuller said:

The biggest win in the 27-season history of the Premier League is 9-0. Manchester City's biggest league wins last season were 6-0 (at Watford), 5-0 (vs Crystal Palace) and 7-2 (vs Stoke).

You can add to that the fact that bottom-six teams will naturally be more tactically cautious against your team and will try their level best not to get humiliated. It is - quite simply - not realistic to expect 10-0s against them (unless Burnley happen to have a squad full of National League North players).

The game can also still throw up freakish scorelines - as the scores were going through as the game progressed I noticed Italy U21s having beaten Papua New Guinea U21s 17-0  ... yes seventeen-nil.  Though that's a background game rather than a playable league and you wouldn't expect anything like that in the EPL.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by rp1966

[stevemc]

On 28/12/2018 at 18:59, stevemc said:

I've got Paul Pogba playing as a DLP (S) and he's bagged 14 goals in 17 appearances (I'm only half way through the season too), of which I've noted 9 have come from outside the box - feels like that shouldn't be happening this often?

 

 

A further point to this, now I've completed a full season I've noticed most of these goals from outside the box actually come via a throw-in first. So the throw goes to the DLP (in this instance it's Pogba), he checks inside without much pressure and shoots from 20-30 yards out.

Is there some sort of bug that anyone else is aware of?

Edited December 29, 2018 by stevemc

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, stevemc said:

A further point to this, now I've completed a full season I've noticed most of these goals from outside the box actually come via a throw-in first. So the throw goes to the DLP (in this instance it's Pogba), he checks inside without much pressure and shoots from 20-30 yards out.

Is there some sort of bug that anyone else is aware of?

Pogba has a ridiculous shot on him as it is. But I would post up any Pkms where you think he's let through too easily. It's interesting that you say it's worse from throw ins, as the marking at throw ins is something, in my save anyway, that looks a bit iffy. 

[stevemc]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Pogba has a ridiculous shot on him as it is. But I would post up any Pkms where you think he's let through too easily. It's interesting that you say it's worse from throw ins, as the marking at throw ins is something, in my save anyway, that looks a bit iffy. 

Yeah, when Pogba doesn't play, I use Andreas Pereira as a direct replacement and it's happening with him too (15 long shots, to Pogba's 17). The DLP is getting an unrealistic amount of goals due to this:

Interesting you say throw ins feels off too, that's my feeling also so there must be something more to it. The defensive movement is just weird, they either don't mark the man outside the box, or if they lose the first ball, then stand off the second ball/man allowing a free shot on goal.

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, stevemc said:

Yeah, when Pogba doesn't play, I use Andreas Pereira as a direct replacement and it's happening with him too (15 long shots, to Pogba's 17). The DLP is getting an unrealistic amount of goals due to this:

Interesting you say throw ins feels off too, that's my feeling also so there must be something more to it. The defensive movement is just weird, they either don't mark the man outside the box, or if they lose the first ball, then stand off the second ball/man allowing a free shot on goal.

Definitely worth raising this with a few examples of the goals and Pkms. 

[Eoow]

On 25/12/2018 at 13:42, keithfc said:

Hi guys! due to holiday, I have time to write some analysis on current FM19 engine. I hope what I write can help to improve coming FM.Let's pick one of match from AI vs AI. All of the screens are captured by the comprehensive highlights. 

 

 From the above screen, you can see  TAA makes a great overlap. 2 defenders are defending him. Why he still tries to cross? It's clearly no chance. You can see that  D. Costa is wide open.  Why TAA dont pass back to D. Costa to make a better chance?

 

After some of the blocking, the ball went to mid. You can see Sane from Man City ignores TAA....... I am not necessary to cap the screen. The play will be finished by the crossing from TAA.......

Again,  FB drops too deep. No one cares D.cost. Both team also has the same problem. It provides so much space on both flank.  This is also one the reason why there is lack of central play. 

 

Actually I want to question why both CM stay so close each other..... They are totally defend by one defender..... You can imagine it will not go mid again.

again....... You can imagine man city will repeat  liverpool's situation. The ball went to the right flank. Crossing on the right, blocking, corner.

 

So the similar situation repeat again and again. No one mark both flank. Winger/ FB tried to cross urgently .  Cross are blocked. It may lead to counter attack by opposite or cross, again or corner for both team. 84 cross attempt for both team. 

 

When all the match happens  similar situations. When you have watched over 100 matches with comprehensive highlight, what  body language should you be in front of the monitor? composed?  motivated?  anxious?

 

Ok, I will show another match which is one of the team is controlled by me. I only want to show one of the old issue from FM. The above screen is the tactics setup

 

Please just look at where  the red shirt striker is...................... He is Dlf (s). But he acts as a poacher, advance forward.... No striker drops deep to hold the ball,  how can you setup a mid play? old issue.

 

As you know, False nine 's description in the game is a joke.........

 

 

 I also upload PKM for reporting different issues in the previous FM,, although all of them are not solved. I dont expect above mentioned will be solved in next patch. But I hope it can be helped  for future FM.

AI vs AI match PKM attached . It will be posted on bug forums too.  

So do you still enjoy this ME, especially repeated crossing?, repeated blocking? In FM18, you still can see some of the mid play. But in FM19, all of them are mostly disappeared.

 

You can still say this is the best match engine ever since FM10. Please provide constructive feedback and evidence to show the reason of being the best ME ever since FM10. for further discussion. But I can say this is the most not enjoyable ME ever since Fm10 as above mentioned repeated crossing, blocking and corner.  If  this is the best ME ever, I think this is not respect to old FM. 

Man City v Liverpool w.pkm

I completely agree with the problems in your post. I noticed them myself from the very first match that I played in Football Manager 2019. Crosses constantly blocked, passes being called offside, no through balls or correct player movement in almost every single match highlight. We see again and again that managers in this commynity are very frustrated about the exact same problems and most of them provide in-debt analysis like yours. Then there is the managers indicating that the match engine is acting natural and realistic or your tactic is somehow not well-suited for the respective situation. I miss in-debt analysis from these managers. It is easy to write such statements and provide few arguments in words, but where is the analysis based on in-game happenings?

I joined this community a few days ago for the first time in a very long time because of my frustrations of this year's edition and I want to express this real bad. I really wanted to be objective in this discussion, but when I read through all the post in here, at FM Base and FM Scout, it is very obvious that this is one of the biggest problems i have ever experienced. Due to this, the game is simply not enjoyable to play or watch. I just wrote Apple to get a refund (playing touch on iPad) as I do not want to wait for a new patch to be released later this year. At least I am glad to see that 80% of the other managers in here experience the exact same problems as me, and that they all conclude the same: Match highlights have no variety and team instructions seems to not reflect what is going on at the pitch.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Eoow

[CFuller]

22 minutes ago, Eoow said:

I completely agree with the problems in your post. I noticed them myself from the very first match that I played in Football Manager 2019. Crosses constantly blocked, offisdes, no through balls or correct player movement in almost every match highlight. We see again and again that managers in this commynity are very frustrated about the exact same problems and most of them provide in-debt analysis like yours. Then there is the managers indicating that the match engine is acting natural and realistic or your tactic is somehow not well-suited for the respective situation. I miss in-debt analysis from these managers. It is easy to write such statements and provide few arguments in words, but where is the analysis based on in-game happenings?

I joined this community a few days ago for the first time since first game release in 2005 because of my frustrations of this year's edition and I want to express this real bad. I really wanted to be objective in this discussion, but when I read through all the post in here, at FM Base and FM Scout, this is one of the biggest problems i have ever experienced. Due to this, the game is simply not enjoyable to play or watch. I just wrote Apple to get a refund (playing touch on iPad) as I do not want to wait for a new patch to be released later this year. At least I am glad to see that 80% of the other managers in here experience the exact same problems as me, and that they all conclude the same: Match highlights have no variety and team instructions seems to not reflect what is going on at the pitch.

It's a vocal minority who are saying they experience major problems. I'm not saying they have no right to complain; indeed, I share some of the concerns that have been raised. Even so, there are thousands of FMers who really enjoy the current game, have no complaints about it, and don't post in here to say so. Indeed, many of them probably don't even know these forums exist.

To respond to your previous post, about the vast amount of bug reports... this isn't unusual or necessarily indicative of something being seriously wrong with FM19. In fact, it's typical for a game as complicated as FM - and with as much support as FM - to have so many bug reports submitted per year.

In my eyes, FM19 is a very solid and stable game that I'm sure will go on to become the best version yet. That's because so many FMers are willing to raise their issues by submitting in-depth bug reports, which will help the developers to iron out some (not all) of the creases. Simply claiming that an aspect of the game is "broken" or "wrong" without properly backing their complaints up helps nobody.

Edited December 29, 2018 by CFuller

[BigV]

10 minutes ago, CFuller said:

It's a vocal minority who are saying they experience major problems. I'm not saying they have no right to complain; indeed, I share some of the concerns that have been raised. Even so, there are thousands of FMers who really enjoy the current game, have no complaints about it, and don't post in here to say so. Indeed, many of them probably don't even know these forums exist.

To respond to your previous post, about the vast amount of bug reports... this isn't unusual or necessarily indicative of something being seriously wrong with FM19. In fact, it's typical for a game as complicated as FM - and with as much support as FM - to have so many bug reports submitted per year.

In my eyes, FM19 is a very solid and stable game that I'm sure will go on to become the best version yet. That's because so many FMers are willing to raise their issues by submitting in-depth bug reports, which will help the developers to iron out some (not all) of the creases. Simply claiming that an aspect of the game is "broken" or "wrong" without properly backing their complaints up helps nobody.

I completely agree with you but don't you think to an extent that these "bugs" should be ironed out before the release or at least the minor ones? The beta mode was useful but after it more problems rose, it's like after shutting 1 bug down 2 more grew. They tweaked the cards/fouls and set pieces to an extent which somehow resulted in long shots being main threats. Seriously why don't they just use parts from FM17 cause that was the closest the ME became to being "real" and was most certainly the best for a long long time. 

[CFuller]

13 minutes ago, BigV said:

I completely agree with you but don't you think to an extent that these "bugs" should be ironed out before the release or at least the minor ones? The beta mode was useful but after it more problems rose, it's like after shutting 1 bug down 2 more grew. They tweaked the cards/fouls and set pieces to an extent which somehow resulted in long shots being main threats. Seriously why don't they just use parts from FM17 cause that was the closest the ME became to being "real" and was most certainly the best for a long long time. 

If SI didn't release FM until they had ironed out those "bugs", they would never have got round to releasing FM.

And that's the thing with the match engine. It's so complex that one apparently simple fix can potentially have a huge knock-on effect elsewhere.

[CFuller]

And while I'm still here, I have a complaint to make - partly about the game, and also (to a lesser extent) about SI.

Newgen faces. A lot of people still hate them, and it'll probably take another year or two before they've reached what many FMers would say was a high level of quality. I personally think they're an improvement on the previous two FMs, except on one aspect.

The East Asian newgen faces are terrible. They look mostly Caucasian, and the skin tones are often far too dark. You'll find several examples here and here.

So far, this issue - which would affect many users' immersion in long-term careers - has not even been acknowledged by anyone from SI. Indeed, the last post by any SI tester or employee in the "Manager Man and Generated Staff/Player Faces" section of the bugs forum was on 19 November - almost six weeks ago.

Why is there a deathly silence from SI when it comes to fixing newgen face bugs when all the other sub-forums are regularly monitored? Is there a valid reason for not even acknowledging our reports? I've defended the company and the game several times throughout this thread, but on this issue, I could understand why some users would feel their complaints aren't being listened to.

[Eoow]

1 hour ago, CFuller said:

It's a vocal minority who are saying they experience major problems. I'm not saying they have no right to complain; indeed, I share some of the concerns that have been raised. Even so, there are thousands of FMers who really enjoy the current game, have no complaints about it, and don't post in here to say so. Indeed, many of them probably don't even know these forums exist.

To respond to your previous post, about the vast amount of bug reports... this isn't unusual or necessarily indicative of something being seriously wrong with FM19. In fact, it's typical for a game as complicated as FM - and with as much support as FM - to have so many bug reports submitted per year.

In my eyes, FM19 is a very solid and stable game that I'm sure will go on to become the best version yet. That's because so many FMers are willing to raise their issues by submitting in-depth bug reports, which will help the developers to iron out some (not all) of the creases. Simply claiming that an aspect of the game is "broken" or "wrong" without properly backing their complaints up helps nobody.

I was part of those thousands of "FM'ers" enjoying the game and not knowing about all of the many communities until recently. I played in slience for a while, but now I am here because I simply can not play and enjoy the game after a single day of playing! My few posts in here might stregthen this argument. So yes, we do have complaints about it. And yes, we do post it in here.

I have always trusted SI to deliver a great piece of work, but when my highlights show nothing but corners blocked, no through balls, players not respecting short pass instructions and strikers not droppong deep to receive the ball, etc., I feel like Football Manager 2019 is no where near solid and stable.

I agree with you on the last part. Unfortunately, I am playing FMT on my iPad and I have no idea how to share PKM's from an iPad. However, in my previous post at the top of this page, I tried to provide evidence for these problems by refering to related posts to stress the importance of these problems while I credit those guys, including @keithfc, for providing us with the in-debt analysis and thus proving why the game is currently not playable.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Eoow

[Andrew_Goats_Gruff]

Late goals, enoughs enough.

1 shot on target A.I goals, enoughs enough.

Predictably losing to 20 points after 32 league games bottom of the league side, enoughs enough.

Off form strikers just to match the script, enough is enough. 

Taking late leads to concede right after, enoughs enough.

 

This solid in game script is repetitive, ultra defensive time wasting at the end is POINTLESS. 

Momentum script is barmy, if i’m off form and 3rd, playing bottom of the league team on 20 points from 32 games, predictably knowing a struggle will happen, yet they score a 40 yard free kick v me. OK THEN

I don’t want SI thinking i’m raging, but I honestly believe FM 18 was far superior, start of my current season, I sold my unhappy Right Back, my team cohesion went from 3 quarters in the green, to half way through the red... we all know how over efffctive cohesion is... 

I’m bored of wingers being told to stay out wide, YET always RUN THROUGH THE MIDDLE for a SHOT (take less shots!!!)

 

[themadsheep2001]

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

And while I'm still here, I have a complaint to make - partly about the game, and also (to a lesser extent) about SI.

Newgen faces. A lot of people still hate them, and it'll probably take another year or two before they've reached what many FMers would say was a high level of quality. I personally think they're an improvement on the previous two FMs, except on one aspect.

The East Asian newgen faces are terrible. They look mostly Caucasian, and the skin tones are often far too dark. You'll find several examples here and here.

So far, this issue - which would affect many users' immersion in long-term careers - has not even been acknowledged by anyone from SI. Indeed, the last post by any SI tester or employee in the "Manager Man and Generated Staff/Player Faces" section of the bugs forum was on 19 November - almost six weeks ago.

Why is there a deathly silence from SI when it comes to fixing newgen face bugs when all the other sub-forums are regularly monitored? Is there a valid reason for not even acknowledging our reports? I've defended the company and the game several times throughout this thread, but on this issue, I could understand why some users would feel their complaints aren't being listened to.

Tagging in @Neil Brock for when he's back in. It may or may not be the highest priority, but someone should be responding. Hopefully he cam chase someone up. 

[Svenc]

On ‎28‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:20, bar333 said:

Your assumption in every post that complaints about the ME and game are all by people who use downloaded tactics is getting old. 

I never said anything of the sort. I said that there are Reports of ANCHOR MEN pushing all up, which shouldn't at all happen. That is, tactics that aren't actually designed to completely squeeze the space, playing into defensive Teams Hands, would still be doing it. Additionally, I also said that traditionally AI Teams would be playing far too defensive football too readily -- even by real Football standards of "parking a bus". Simply changing that would likely Change the experience some all alone.

My comments about "download tactics" are more about that they oft tend to be of an illogical Trial&error, or at least slightly nonsensical ilk. Pushing all players up (also on support duty btw) whilst also compressing the space in Terms of width is a very common occurance. That stuff still massively influences, as entire FM communities such as the aforementioned FM Base and FM Scout are dominated by such. Still this is stuff which the game also still allows -- which also harms the AI as on occasion it does such stuff to. The game after all simulates professional Management. You could make a point that the game shouldn't allow illogical micro tweaks. I'd much prefer it at this stage of development. In parts as the game's AI on the Micro Level in particular will never compete anyway, Show me an AI sitting top of the table with Stuttgart.  In parts though because it would allow the game to Focus on "realistic" movement and Patterns of Play. It's hard to make the argument that stats/Play/whatever wouldn't look much like football for as long as the game still allows repeat positioning and generally patterns of Play that isn't much like what's typically going on in competitive, (semi) professional Football. 

As a side-effect, it may allow engine tweaking to be more straight-forward. Firstly, feedback likely isn't going to be as over the places as it is every year quite as much. More importantly though, it may allow a greater focus and a tighter direction in ME and AI development. Which in turn may also mean the core issues are easier to assess and iron out. Loads of them may not even make it past the Alpha stage of any release. Then again, seeing what massively knock-ons simple SI tweaks to d-line behavior and ball physics etc. tend to produce between releases -- who knows how fundamentally altering the core tactical experience from one of (potentially somewhat nonsensical) Micro tweaks to broadly football decisions (AI included) may affect the game?  

Edited December 30, 2018 by Svenc

[BigV]

11 hours ago, CFuller said:

If SI didn't release FM until they had ironed out those "bugs", they would never have got round to releasing FM.

And that's the thing with the match engine. It's so complex that one apparently simple fix can potentially have a huge knock-on effect elsewhere.

True but shouldn't they have done that way before the release? Of course they can't get rid of all the bugs but the major ones should've been sorted around the official release date or within the next big update. 

The ME is awful even when im winning which was a problem early on. The beta ME was realistic in terms of gameplay all they had to do was tone down crossing and fouls as the major flaws but instead it seems they started from scratch and worked it all up again. If that was the case why couldn't they use a previous versions code (don't know much about it but surely there's history they can use??) like 17 cause that was the closest they got to perfection. They are close but it seems 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I don't think they test the whole game when they fix the issue, they test it on that specific bug so I think that is where they're going wrong IMO. The public beta was a good option cause they were getting bombarded on here but at the same time people could say that it shouldn't need to happen since they officially released a game. From past experiences ME won't change in march area or closer to feb or jan but with the majority votes on the ME being poor it could change but then again who will start the game again when they're already through season/seasons. 

[CFuller]

55 minutes ago, BigV said:

True but shouldn't they have done that way before the release? Of course they can't get rid of all the bugs but the major ones should've been sorted around the official release date or within the next big update. 

The ME is awful even when im winning which was a problem early on. The beta ME was realistic in terms of gameplay all they had to do was tone down crossing and fouls as the major flaws but instead it seems they started from scratch and worked it all up again. If that was the case why couldn't they use a previous versions code (don't know much about it but surely there's history they can use??) like 17 cause that was the closest they got to perfection. They are close but it seems 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I don't think they test the whole game when they fix the issue, they test it on that specific bug so I think that is where they're going wrong IMO. The public beta was a good option cause they were getting bombarded on here but at the same time people could say that it shouldn't need to happen since they officially released a game. From past experiences ME won't change in march area or closer to feb or jan but with the majority votes on the ME being poor it could change but then again who will start the game again when they're already through season/seasons. 

Why are you assuming that the majority of FMers think the match engine is "poor"?

[Svenc]

On ‎28‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:47, Rashidi said:

You really have to back that up. At the moment, I convert 33/39 big chances I get in a game. Whether one wants to debate the accuracy of ccc, its the only real measure we have in the game. Granted a bit more forward and central movement might be good, but against stacked defenses...it should be very hard. You have to have skill at the game to identify which areas of the pitch to exploit, whether its a result of a yellow card, a knock, poor performance, or just a tactical weakness in the system.

Mind you I have also tried exploiting long shots to do it consistently, however its easier said than done.

.

 

Unfortunately, this may highlight why SI don't provide more detailed Feedback as to "scoring probabilities" actually calculated. E.g. they have been SEMANTICALLY debating whether a Header / shot should ever be a CCC or not for wholly semantic reasons -- rather than what is actually calculated. This is  a clear cut conversion borderlining on the "every time you have a ccc you convert it" range.  Additionally, whilst it's never been rocket science to have SOME Edge over AI (sadly applying Team Sports common sense is oft enough), this may be an Edge over competition unheard of in all history of competitive Sports.

What it boils down to is this, and what I have been arguing.

Inevitably, there are better and worse chances -- including better and worse "one on ones" -- I've personally already argued that I consider ones off a through ball bang through the middle  to be usually lesser ones than those created from an angle. As it gives the Forward no angle to work with and less time. Not sure you would agree. But what it comes down to is that this is precisely the thing SI may be "afraid" of. xG models assessing chance qualities etc. in Football are roughly ESTIMATIONS of scoring probabilities a Manager may or may not utililze. They all tend to have actual weakness too. Your own model as to FM seems close to hitting the HOME RUN, that is the actualy probability of a specific type of Chance resulting in a Goal. Under the Hood, the game is Maths, after all. Not merely that, it seems that through your micro focused way of playing (and as you argued previous, initially upon a new release reloading the same Match a couple dozen times) not merely have you gained superior experience in what in-game is more likely to be a Goal vs. what isn't --- you also can repeatedly funnel play into Scenarios of high probabilities of scoring a Goal. SI internally may or may not consider this "gaming their engine" to an extent -- which is perhaps what they would not prefer their game to be like from a playing experience.

I may be wrong though. And I'd still want there to be more detailed Feedback as to the actual shots, no less so that those dreaded conversations of how you could ever have like 60+ shots without scoringn (OMG broken ME) will go away. 
Perhaps more importantly, so that the final match Reports and General analysis based on the simple stats the game collects so far (the more shots the better) would make an ounce of sense.  

 

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Svenc

[michelb86]

There are just some small bugs that suck the joy out of this game. Playing with Liverpool, won the CL and first in the PL and Spurs (6th in PL) are interested in signing Van Dijk. They offer something like 50 million while he is worth 70. I obviously refuse and the player and rest of the squad is angry. Why?? So not realistic. Mentality drops. Also the number of unrealistic transfers in the Dutch league is way too high (Ajax buying back up players from PSV and Feyenoord for their starting team).

Or I sell two players, squad raises concern that the squad lacks depth (which I can imagine). I promise to buy new players, buy two even better players back and they are angry I didn't improve the squad. Mentality drops. 

Besides that it's the best version I played, and I think it's my 10th year. But things like things shouldn't be hard to catch during the testing.

[westy8chimp]

I got back from holiday yesterday, fired up FM to settle in and watch UFC all night... First game a few mins in, my BBM, who is right footed, hit a left foot curling bobbler from 30+ yards out... Hits the post. Then Eyounoussi scored a 25 yard volley and Southampton scored a corner. Then I scored a corner, Zouma with a 12 yard header diagonal across goal when he was facing the wrong way and the ball was curling away from goal. Lost 2-1. Won the next game 2-0 another corner and a direct free kick... Then drew at home to Cardiff 0-0 when they had a red card early on... I had 26 shots virtually all blocked 

Basically over 3 games had everything people have been moaned about... To the point I just shut down and watched through the endless build up and adverts to the sport on TV rather than play. 

Its too small a sample size to mean anything or spend time uploading Pkms etc. 

My point is, it feels so bad that I would rather watch adverts to stay awake at 4am than play fm. 

I'm still working away so in hotels mon-fri for the Forseable... Should be prime fm time but I honestly can't be bothered until another update to clean up the ME

[Eoow]

16 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:I'm still working away so in hotels mon-fri for the Forseable... Should be prime fm time but I honestly can't be bothered until another update to clean up the ME

You just summed up my situation as well. I am off 30 days until another semester at university begins in February. I planned to just kill the game day and night, but I paused it after day one of playing. That is the most frustrated part about these current match engine issues. Continue playing and let randomness take over? Or stop playing and feel like you will never get started with that Salford City to Premier League career? 

[bleventozturk]

I just bought and installed FM 17 last night, to get me going until the next fix of FM 19 ME. 

This actually gave me a chance to compare the ME's. The current 19 ME is imo so much better, and it feels so much more like watching real football, it is not even close, again imo.

YET, it also made me realize/confirm that the most important thing in an ME is the balance/type of goals. The 19 ME looks and feels great maybe 80 minutes out of the 90, but the way the majority of the goals happen from set pieces and long range shots, no matter what team, what tactic, just kills the enjoyment. The 17 ME is significantly more primitive, but the variety of how goals happen makes it more enjoyable for me.

FM 19 is so close to being great, I am nervously waiting/hoping for a little tweak.

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by bleventozturk

[teodoro]

Il 28/12/2018 in 22:28 , Eoow ha scritto:

Hello all managers!

I have been playing all editions of this lovely game on a continuous basis. Year after year. Update after update. Defeat after defeat. What made me continue playing the game was the realistic gameplay reflecting the real football environment. During the many years I have been playing Football Manager, I have not noticed any major unrealistic gameplays that gave me the feeling that I want stop playing the game. There have always been a way out of a bad streak, top strikers not scoring, midfielders not passing the ball correctly, etc.  After playing Football Manager 2019 for only one week, I got this feeling for the first time – and I wonder what is wrong with this year's edition? I feel like that my instructions does not matter.

After my first match, I got the feeling that something is wrong. Match highlights constantly show me the exact same outcome:

• Defenders unrealistic blocks crosses from wingers resulting in another corner.
• Strikers are somehow not involved in matches anymore.
• Obvious passes such as through balls never happens.
• Incredibly high possession and shot at goal with only one goal scored – from a corner kick.
• Nice pass! Oh wait. Offside, offside, offside, offside, offside, offside, offside.

These are just some of the reasons why I very unfortunately have to pause Football Manager 2019. I have done some research as I was really frustrated about match highlights just showing crosses getting blocked, no play throughs to strikers and offside every time a player tries to make a pass. It is very obvious that that I am clearly not the only one with these problems:

• What happened to my strikers? 
• I give up
• Offsides bugged?
• No passes, just dribbling
• Through Balls
• Unrealistic passive offsides
• Awful shots to goals ratios (way too many off target shots)
• Crosses and Number of Corners
• Offsides are Broken in FM 2019
• Pass? Shot! (pkm including)
• Wide players with space to get a cross in dwell on ball
• Can't score goals
• A message to SI devs if you can be bothered A message to SI devs if you can be bothered
• What about crosses?
• Help me through balls

These are posts from several Football Manager communities indicating that managers all over the world are frustrated about this year's version. It does simply not reflect reality like previous games – and for me, it is simply not to live – or play – with as it is so obvious wrong. You even see well-known tactic creators playing with inverted wingers and fullbacks to center the play in order to win from decent plays that are not somehow random or blocked from crosses. This is not how Football Manager should be played.

You might argue that the tactic is not correctly suited for the specific match, but these problems occur every single match, and the match highlights are just the same over and over again. I am very sad to pause Football Manager 2019 already and it got me – for the first time ever – to start a discussion and ask the question: What is wrong with Football Manager 2019?

What a great post !!

A mandatory reading that I recommend to the  dev team..

Kudos to you!!

[Bigpapa42]

Curious if there is a reason behind this and if so, whether someone can explain it to me. 

Have an 18 year old striker. He's been my first choice for about a year, but the sheer volume of matches in Brazil means he plays about every second match. I noticed a dark green PR notification and when I looked, it says he has a pre-concern regarding how I've treated him and that he doesn't think the previous chat went very well. I looked thru this conversation history - just me praising him when he trained particularly well or when  he won MOTM for multiple-goal matches. I may have been asked about him in a post-match conference but I rarely say anything too definitive in the press conferences, and it doesn't show anyway. so will praising his training (when its 10,0 or close to it) really **** off the player? 

[fuego]

Il 28/12/2018 in 22:28 , Eoow ha scritto:

Hello all managers!

I have been playing all editions of this lovely game on a continuous basis. Year after year. Update after update. Defeat after defeat. What made me continue playing the game was the realistic gameplay reflecting the real football environment. During the many years I have been playing Football Manager, I have not noticed any major unrealistic gameplays that gave me the feeling that I want stop playing the game. There have always been a way out of a bad streak, top strikers not scoring, midfielders not passing the ball correctly, etc.  After playing Football Manager 2019 for only one week, I got this feeling for the first time – and I wonder what is wrong with this year's edition? I feel like that my instructions does not matter.

After my first match, I got the feeling that something is wrong. Match highlights constantly show me the exact same outcome:

• Defenders unrealistic blocks crosses from wingers resulting in another corner.
• Strikers are somehow not involved in matches anymore.
• Obvious passes such as through balls never happens.
• Incredibly high possession and shot at goal with only one goal scored – from a corner kick.
• Nice pass! Oh wait. Offside, offside, offside, offside, offside, offside, offside.

These are just some of the reasons why I very unfortunately have to pause Football Manager 2019. I have done some research as I was really frustrated about match highlights just showing crosses getting blocked, no play throughs to strikers and offside every time a player tries to make a pass. It is very obvious that that I am clearly not the only one with these problems:

• What happened to my strikers? 
• I give up
• Offsides bugged?
• No passes, just dribbling
• Through Balls
• Unrealistic passive offsides
• Awful shots to goals ratios (way too many off target shots)
• Crosses and Number of Corners
• Offsides are Broken in FM 2019
• Pass? Shot! (pkm including)
• Wide players with space to get a cross in dwell on ball
• Can't score goals
• A message to SI devs if you can be bothered A message to SI devs if you can be bothered
• What about crosses?
• Help me through balls

These are posts from several Football Manager communities indicating that managers all over the world are frustrated about this year's version. It does simply not reflect reality like previous games – and for me, it is simply not to live – or play – with as it is so obvious wrong. You even see well-known tactic creators playing with inverted wingers and fullbacks to center the play in order to win from decent plays that are not somehow random or blocked from crosses. This is not how Football Manager should be played.

You might argue that the tactic is not correctly suited for the specific match, but these problems occur every single match, and the match highlights are just the same over and over again. I am very sad to pause Football Manager 2019 already and it got me – for the first time ever – to start a discussion and ask the question: What is wrong with Football Manager 2019?

I absolutely agree.

Totally unplayable. 

Crossing and corners bug was sold as solved with 19.2 patch but it isn’t at all.

my first friendly match against a very poor opponent ended 1-0 scoring at min 88’ from a corner kick.

28 shots at goal against 1.

nothing has been solved. So disappointed.

[stevemc]

There's definitely an issue with marking from throw ins, it must be a bug as I've seen it in multiple matches against various teams.

What happens is I take throw in, it's passed back to the throw in taker first time, who then crosses it square it for a tap in. Not one of the opposition defence follow the striker in. Look at the shape of that defence too, 6-7 players all ball watching, grouped together. There's actually a 3-on-1 situation by the throw-in taker too, which creates the opportunity in the first instance. Schoolboy stuff.

 

This is from a Champions League Semi Final match.

As I mentioned in here yesterday, I've noticed this also happens from further out, but rather than crossing from in behind, the unmarked receiver from the throw-in a little deeper, and cuts inside for a free shot on goal between 20-30 yards out. I believe this is a cause of the "too many goals from distance" that has been complained about.

To me, there appears to be a genuine issue with marking from set pieces, with throw-ins the particular problem.

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by stevemc

[stevemc]

I finally completed a fair stint on FM19, with the latest patch etc and I’ve got to say it’s the least satisfied I’ve been with any FM at this point in the year. It’s had a couple of patches but I feel there are some glaring instances that ruin the satisfaction of the game.

By this point, I’m usually fully immersed and loving the game, and that yearly bug grips me to keep playing one more game.

However, after the season I’ve completed I’m going to have to put it down until it’s patched so hopefully it’s more enjoyable, which historically now would be the January update, due around beginning of March - which crazy since I bought the game in October!

Issues I’ve spotted which are incredibly infuriating;

Repetition in match engine:

I keep noticing repetition within the match engine, almost identical goals being scored for example, patterns of play repeating themselves, you can tell when the Key Highlight starts what is going to happen next. This is regardless of the players I play too, I’ve swapped a Pogba out for a Fred or a Garner and I’m still seeing the same patterns of play, the same type of goal, or assist. Doesn’t feel like there is much satisfaction.

Throw Ins:

There's definitely an issue with marking from throw ins, it must be a bug as I've seen it in multiple matches against various teams. What happens is I take throw in, it's passed back to the throw in taker first time, who then crosses it square it for a tap in. Not one of the opposition defence follow the striker in. Look at the shape of that defence too, 6-7 players all ball watching, grouped together. There's actually a 3-on-1 situation by the throw-in taker too, which creates the opportunity in the first instance. Schoolboy stuff.

Corners:

Similar to throw-ins, just play the corner short and the receiver either picks out a man on the edge of the box for a free shot, un-marked, or he’ll cut inside himself for a free shot or a simple square pass.

Goals from 20-30 yards:

Far too many goals from outside the box, it’s been reported so many times it doesn’t need anymore PKM’s - Pogba is outscoring my strikers from a DLP position - this should not be happening. If you've got midfielders with 15+ long shots then it's a gold mine.

Strikers:

This bring me onto my next point, that I don’t think the strikers get involved enough in the build up play, they float through matches on averages ratings until they pop up with a tap-in goal from a throw-in or corner bug and everything appears rosey on the ratings.

Shot Stats:

I’ve noticed over the whole season that I’ve had a large amount of games where I’ve had 40+ shots and the opposition has had under 3, in four instances my opposition didn’t even have a single shot. I’m talking against big teams too. I beat Tottenham 5-0 in the FA Cup semi final with over 40+ shots - it seems highly unrealistic for this to happen at this level and ruins the realism.

In a Champions League group game, I won 9-0 away at FC Viktoria Plzeň, I had 42 shots! At home I had 56 shots and beat them 10-1.

Assists:

I’ve noticed full backs dominate the assists for me, but I think this is linked to the throw-in bug I’ve talked about.

Offside Goals:

I’ve seen a large amount of offside goals, more than normal in previous FM’s. Not sure if this is intentional or just a bit buggy.

 

Issues I’ve spotted which are not as infuriating but are still present;

AI Transfers:

This has been an issue for years, but never seems to be addressed, the AI just cannot build squads, teams sign players that they wouldn’t buy in real life that fits their style or transfer policy. Take for example, first window, Tottenham sign ex-Arsenal DM Francis Coquelin for £21m - despite him being ex-Arsenal just over a year ago, Tottenham already have Wanyama, Dier, Dembele and Winks in that position. Coquelin went on to start just 7 times.

Zaha joined Man City for £55m, seems a fair transfer but he went on to start just 5 games all season. In January they then loaned Mahrez out to Everton but Zaha’s game time didn’t increase. Odd.

Newgen Faces:

Still really poor quality, you’d have thought these would have been well overhauled by now to give us more variety and realism to add longevity to long term saves. This area has to improve.

Media Questions:

Still incredibly repetitive, to the point where I don’t even read the question anymore, I just know where my answer is and I click it.

Player Interaction:

Still a bit stale for me this area, and what is that comment players make “I’ll be going now, I’m sure you’ll want me for something else soon” or something along those lines - imagine actually making that sarcastic comment to your gaffer?!

Game Time:

Players seem to moan too frequently about lack of game time. Fred, who started 23 league games, plus 7 as sub is currently transfer listed because he wasn't getting enough game time apparently. He was involved in 30 of the 38 games. 

Also had Phil Jones moaning about game time, which was fair as I didn't play him but 6 months later he wants to revoke his transfer request but he's no longer unhappy. What's changed then, Phil? 

The FA Cup Football:

You can barely see it.

 

At the moment, I don't feel like I'm playing the game anymore, but just scanning the game for the next bug to report, which is a big shame.

And before anyone says “as soon as you hit continue the game is real anymore”, these are just my opinions and points to raise as feedback.

Edited December 30, 2018 by stevemc

[bar333]

Another one for the "how long has this issue been around and not fixed" list for me is players not playing on loan. This is just infuriating to no end cause I remember mentioning this as far as back as FM17 or even earlier. Teams offer to take a young player on loan with a First Team squad status and he ends up not playing a single damn minute, never in the matchday squad and playing for the reserves.

I remember back then people were basically telling me it's my fault and I should look at their squad and figure out if the player will be getting gametime, it was ridiculous to suggest then and it is now. If the team offers First Team status then it's reasonable to expect the player to play. It's not even that he's not an automatic pick but that they literally don't give him a single minute off the bench, it seems malicious almost, like domestic clubs taking your players then never playing them to hinder their development. Shouldn't be happening. Now granted it doesn't happen as often as it used to in past editions and I'm happy to report that most loanees do play about as much as you'd expect but there shouldn't ever be an instance of this happening.

[BigV]

13 hours ago, CFuller said:

Why are you assuming that the majority of FMers think the match engine is "poor"?

Well im speaking in terms of the people on the forums posting issues and taking their frustration out. Almost most issues that are big ones are effecting most if not all the people playing FM regardless if they like it or not, So many have posted the same issues and its been a massive problem since the start of the game with every big bug. Of course I understand there are stuff they can/can't do before each update but when a lot of people send the same issues with scrn shots/pkm's or even mentioning them with stats it seems they barely look into it specifically and more or less generally which just doesn't work well with this game. A lot of people have gone back to previous FM's and that hasn't been the case since 14/15 

[fuego]

Too many unsolved matters as can be red in the very constructive posts above. I’ve played for a very short time but I found all the problems raised up, really stop gaming matters if comparated with FM usually elevated standards.

i hope SI is working on it rather than on the January market window and will be able to release a 19.3 patch ASAP.

Edited December 31, 2018 by fuego

[forameuss]

7 hours ago, BigV said:

Well im speaking in terms of the people on the forums posting issues and taking their frustration out

Most of the people posting on a game's forum will be of the negative persuasion.  The vast majority of the game's users won't even know this place exists, probably because they've never had an issue that's worth looking it out.  

7 hours ago, BigV said:

Almost most issues that are big ones are effecting most if not all the people playing FM regardless if they like it or not

Way to generalise.  As soon as you start projecting your issues onto a wider populace, you're weakening your argument.

You can say you dislike the game, or hate it even. You can point out everything that you believe is wrong with it, gather evidence, and have SI look at it.  But what you can't do is speak in any kind of consensus about how everyone else feels.  

7 hours ago, BigV said:

Of course I understand there are stuff they can/can't do before each update but when a lot of people send the same issues with scrn shots/pkm's or even mentioning them with stats it seems they barely look into it specifically and more or less generally which just doesn't work well with this game.

If someone sends an issue that's purely based around a screenshot or stats, then you're absolutely correct they won't look into it.  Because they have nothing but unsubstantiated words to go on.  That's why they ask for pkms or saves, as they can actually be used to investigate problems.  And every one raised with decent evidence will be investigated.  They're not going to come and sit on every poster's knee, give a kiss on the forehead and give a fully personalised look at every single bug raised.  But if they deem it worthy of a fix or rebalancing, then they'll look into doing just that.  Doesn't mean a fix will ever be released, for a variety of reasons, but to pretend they're just ignoring it shows a massive misunderstanding around how this all works.

[FlorianAlbert9]

5 minuti fa, forameuss ha scritto:

Most of the people posting on a game's forum will be of the negative persuasion.  The vast majority of the game's users won't even know this place exists, probably because they've never had an issue that's worth looking it out. 

 

The vast majority of game's users play only for win. It doesn't matter how.

That's the only reason they don't see a issue like the strikers' ones. 

 

 

[forameuss]

Just now, FlorianAlbert9 said:

The vast majority of game's users play only for win. It doesn't matter how.

That's the only reason they don't see a issue like the strikers' ones. 

At the risk of being flippant...and your point is? 

It doesn't really matter how someone plays the game, particularly in this context, aside from elitists that worry more about what someone else is doing than themselves.  I replied to someone who claimed everyone would be seeing the issue, and that everyone dislikes the ME.  Seems like in your example, there's plenty that won't.  

[FlorianAlbert9]

16 minuti fa, forameuss ha scritto:

At the risk of being flippant...and your point is? 

It doesn't really matter how someone plays the game, particularly in this context, aside from elitists that worry more about what someone else is doing than themselves.  I replied to someone who claimed everyone would be seeing the issue, and that everyone dislikes the ME.  Seems like in your example, there's plenty that won't.  

My point is that even if we play in a way some issues don't bother us, that is not meaning we had to act like they are not there.