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Everything posted by westy8chimp

  1. @duesouth thanks for joining in and good effort vs the 442. I'll also add, I've completely fallen in love with fb-s again... Such a good role. Think for a long while previous to my current save I've gone with wb-s or fb-a... And it's trying to force things too much. The fb-s does brilliant in recycling possession... But will drive forward with the ball or off the ball at the right time. Its definitely a role key to my success so far with lyon. I faced my first 442 eventually vs RBL in the Europa League. Away in Norway for work at the moment but when I get back I was going to show my plan and the outcome (spoiler... I did win but not really how the game plan was intended! My plan completely failed and I don't know why)
  2. @herne79 playing devil's advocate... In fm18 would you have ever used fluidity to affect a cbs behaviour? I did... Now maybe it's just to create a little more narrative and the theory may have outweighed the practice... But I think many of us used it, wrote about it, knew what it did. So I'd be hesitant to now dismiss it. The likelihood is it would be very hard to attribute any specific passage of play to a cbs mentality... I could play the same tactic all season but in some matches you could see different behaviour. Sometimes my CB plays it short sometimes he clears it... Is that his decision making? The opponent press? His mentality? If he does post a video it would be so easy to dismiss it...so its pointless. There's no solution we can provide... Its should be logged as a bug... Either it's a UI issue... Or unintended residual behaviour.... Or option 3 it is intentional and the information provided by the devs has been miscommunicated or misconstrued.
  3. Sorry, i do nothing with training... Limited playing time and my fav part of FM is tactics and transfers, so I just leave training to the coaches.
  4. I'd play on balanced mentality. I've always preferred it...let the players role/duty do the work. I wouldn't say it generates boring posession... I'm using it with lyon and if u look at the videos in my thread... When we win the ball it's recycled until one of the players decides its time... Then they play more incisively. Strong at the back, clinical on the ball.
  5. Paris Part 2 They haven't learned and history repeats itself. The only difference from the first game is that this time their right side looks weaker so I've flipped my tactic from the first meeting, putting the Regista and winger to my left. Restricted them again, though they did score off a set piece this time. We opened them up like a tin of beans with 9 shots coming from inside the area. The goals show how useful we are in the turnover, and the solid base formation you see in these clips is why they struggle to get into attack.
  6. False 9 - 4141 Not overly relevant to the thread, but I had some unfinished business with the False 9 role from my FM18 efforts. One of three things is happening here; 1) 4141 is a really good formation to use with a False 9 (when building out from the back) 2) the False 9 role has been improved in FM19? 3) The ME has improved to allow the False 9 to thrive? Maybe it's just me... the False 9 seems pretty damn good for me this time round... coming much deeper and linking up more than I've seen before. In this clip he is the player linking everything together - it's Depay. Away to Montpellier 4-0 Same tactic i'd used previously against the 42dm211 - but this time they are using an IW on the right, so I've put my DLP and winger on that side with IW and CM on the other. The F9 starts to drop deep each time we advance near the half way line.. he collects the ball on the edge of semi circle and then for the rest of the move acts like a proper support player, staying close to the ball carriers and offering himself, and it's lovely to see 3 of the midfield 4 move beyond him at one point of the move.
  7. I'm facing a lot of 4141 and 4231 which I think are really hard to pick holes in... so would be good to get several different perspectives on approach to those formations. I've found my preferred solution:
  8. Midseason Unbeaten in all comps - although that hasn't helped me in the CL - 5 clean sheets out of the 6 games and 0 defeats but still knocked out, with a measly 8pts from 5 draws and a win! My two toughest opponents so far have been Dortmund and Madrid. Two 0-0 with Madrid but in games I was on the backfoot. They dominated me with a 424 strikerless - made it very difficult to play out from the back Gaps in the central midfield - so playmaker in the middle looking now I probably should have gone for a box defence with a second defensive minded DM .. instead I focussed more on dominating midfield with a flat 4 in all the space. F9 to link. 4141 had been working excellently for me. The issue I had was they pressed very high and closed down urgently - my cbs were caught on the ball and my DM often had to play long and concede possession to avoid the press. At HT I changed DM to HB to try and make it easier to keep the ball at the back... I also changed the AP to a DLP to come deeper to pick up possession. I changed my IW to support whilst giving Ndombele the more attacking responsibility. The changes were to no avail and we were dominated throughout and got a lucky 0-0. This is one example where in normal gameplay with no self imposed restrictions - you would kill them by going a little more direct Dortmund were also a problem. They played a 4231 wide with very good choice of roles. I think when I wrote about my Leverkusen 4231 I suggested it was the formation that I believed gave best coverage of the whole pitch. And that's still how I feel when I see a scout report and try to find holes in it. They don't have a DM so I was going to use playmaker in AMC. The trouble is how to get the ball past 2 solid CMs and the high press from front 4. So I went double playmaker with a DLP. The threats are central and wide... they have a DLP to build out from the back … there is nothing weak about this setup... however, BWM is a role I often avoid using, especially in a midfield duo... and the wing back alongside made that side of the pitch more appealing than the other. So for lack of any bright ideas I thought Id go assymetrical and overload the bwm/wb in the hope I could get past them or draw them into getting booked. In overloading the left I was torn between a right adjusted SS or the RMD. I went with RMD (he didn't get a kick so I changed to SS at HT!) We didn't really dominate the left hand side, altho my goals did come from traore and aouar… it was another game in which we were lucky to come away with a point. The Aouar goal was quite nice and shows the overload working a bit, with the BWM pulled out of position early in the move by DLP/AP combo. Then the space on the right hand side was for the FB (by this stage the RMD is now a right adjusted SS). Never mind Europa might be more fun! Here's the schedule for first half of the season - plenty of clean sheets - shows perhaps nullifying the opponent is easier than exploiting them?! No major surprise we dominate the possession and defending stats.
  9. Yes I'll do a bit on this later... Its hindered me vs a couple of teams where a more direct route was necessary... Adds to the challenge... One team played 4 players in AM strata in a striker less 424 and we couldn't play out from the back at all they kept swarming us... Got a lucky 0-0 but was one of the first games I was completely outplayed.
  10. I've pretty much reached mid season and not faced a single 442 yet! Hopefully I will as that should be the easiest to exploit... I'd be playing between their lines with DM and am for sure
  11. @Ouroboros I like what you went with... Good roles for the fbs to get forward with your wingers and attack their weak flanks. Regista in plenty of space... And good to see you dive straight into the theme by playing Havertz deep... Not frightened of the 'red circle' You can't read too much into one game... But when you win 4-0 it can't be bad.
  12. Do the personalities drive the coach report? ... I. E. Coach report 'this player is inconsistent'... Would inconsistency be a trait of a particular personality group? Or is it two completely seperate elements...where you might get one resolute player who is consistent and relishes big matches and another who can't stomach it?
  13. Breaking down a packed defence? Home to Nimes - ok it's not quite catenaccio stuff, but they have a DM and Ball Winner protecting a back 4. The space is clearly central midfield between their AM and DM (you can see unlike my use of SV/RPM - they aren't really bridging the gap to attack). So I will use a playmaker in CM There is short shrift for an attacker vs that block of 4 so I am also going to trial a CM(a) to work with the playmaker and break from the spacious midfield Their left side (common theme with AI) is a little unprotected with the IW coming inside and a WB in defence on at least support if not attack judging by his position compared to the rest of the back 4. I'll stick with Winger (a) to exploit this. To try and disrupt the defence block I'll use my tried and tested IW and F9 A DM to directly prevent their most attacking threat Savanier - and again FB(s) to protect flanks. I'll position my playmker on my right side and make it a DLP to protect against the IW drifting in. Completely dominated the ball and my CM(a) proved worthy with both goals. I wish they were a bit better - breaking into the box or getting on the end of a cross from RW... but still 2 goals is 2 goals. Both were long shots... this one illustrates again the space my midfield can operate in and therefore control play - DLP the heartbeat of it all
  14. Keeping the fbs on support kept things stable... Meant worst case was often going to be equal numbers. But SV and RPM are quite good in the DM position... They stay back when the opponent builds but get forward adequately when you attack... Only really going to get caught out by a more attacking side. This was at away to Reims we had 58% possession but got hurt on set pieces. Fekir bagged a brace from amc... Just looking now I think my mistake was using Dembele as an AF... He played poorly so was possibly isolated.. Or the build up too slow to utilise an AF. I've hit that problem a couple of times so in the last match vs Psg using a CF has helped. And in most other games I'm using dlf or f9... Learning as we go what works and what doesn't against types of team and formation.
  15. Other Formation Matchups A good match to hold up vs the PSG game as a mistake to learn from is the 0-0 with R Madrid. They played the same formation as PSG and virtually the same roles. Yet I attempted a mirror match. Again, the space for my playmaker is in DM, and the exploit is their WBs so Clarke got another outing as Winger (a) and Terrier played as IF(s). The key difference here, looking retrospectively having seen the success vs PSG, is that I don't threaten the #10 space. I'm using a BWM(d) focussed on breaking up Kroos and Modric and a fairly lame BBM (no ppms or attribute set inclined to really exploit forward runs). So whilst my playmaker has time and space on the ball the options were limited - and we wont have been pulling Casemiro out of position enough. A boring 0-0 where we did have more possession and shots but essentially not enough guile. Some other formation matchups from early games Here's where the UI is awful, the CMs appear so deep! But both teams are playing 4231, using an AP in AMC because they have no DM. A CM(d) to break their AM and a BBM to get up and down. Same vs Dijon and Marseille - a draw and a win... Dijon had a lower mentality and my double IF probably didn't stretch them enough. Here my opponent had good defensive width so I chose to make it a battle of midfield and outnumber them centrally. They were deep which allowed me to use WB for attacking width. This worked nicely. DLP at the base as they had no AMC. Again poor UI - they are playing standard 4231, I went with 2DMs - RPM and SV with an AMC to link play.
  16. Early Progress and Example of Concept to Execution 11 games in - unbeaten and 8 clean sheets. Some pretty naff draws, but seemed a perfect point to give an example (as I've just battered PSG 4-0 away). PSG Scout Report First thing I isolate is the space - they have no AMC but they do have a DM and 2 CMs - so first stake in the ground... my playmaker will play in the DM position. Their (perceived) weakness - I've circled Guerreiro - playing as Wingback without much cover, this is a position I can attack and get behind … I will play a winger on attack duty Neymar and Mbappe won't do much defensive work so I can see the BBMs being pulled out of position - i'm going to add to their woes by using an AMC(s) and an IW(s) to get into any space they vacate. Both on support so they show for the ball and really come into the BBM zone. DM is Veratti so using the AM will disrupt his passing ability, and he is a strange choice of DM so not worried too much about him stopping my AMC play. Their strength is the front 3 - I'm going to keep my fullbacks as FB(s) I don't want to go too deep and defensive and allow their IFs too much space, but don't want to attack and leave space. I'm also going to pair my playmaker with a DM or AN the playmaker will have attacking duties to perform so to add steel and stop those mazy runs from Di Maria, Mbappe, Neymar i'll add some defensive protection. Summary There is space in the DM strata for my playmaker. I'm going to exploit their left wing by using an attacking winger. Double pivot and sensibly employed FB to nullify their attack. HT stats show that they cannot get a shot off - we are dominating the ball and attacking well. 2-0 with a goal and assist from my right winger who is thriving in the space to drive into. He is a good outlet for the Regista. Anecdotal perhaps... but their foul count is also very high - i'm going to attribute this to players 'chasing' the game and being pulled out of position. At FT they had seen more of the ball - they changed to a 4231 and had some good spells before I noticed and countered it with a tactical change of my own. I changed my Regista to a DLP-D to really solidify the attacking threat of PSG and now they didn't have a DM I introduced a second playmaker, AP in the AMC slot. Gave him some support through a DLF. The Regista had joy and his more expansive passes were to the right winger; The BPD also had some joy releasing the right winger - as you will see from the 3rd goal, which was a beauty! In terms of the DNA - we limited our crossing and tried to keep the ball - just 3 crosses in the match... all three were assists (one which I didn't both with the highlight was a cross to back post where the defender headed it straight to Clarke who buried it from 6 yards). The goals; Goal 1 - Neymar runs into the dead-end, surrounded by 5!! players he loses to the ball to the RB. Clarke, RW, drives forward and we change defence to attack fairly swiftly, but he is outnumbered and comes back to the FBs.. we move to centre with the Regista, who does a flick ...because he can... play is switched back and forth with nice possession football. The AMC and Regista do a good job of pulling the opponents out of position, and the attack ends with an overload behind their WB for a good cross and goal. Depay, IW, converts at the back post. Goal 2 - not as graceful as goal 1 but the space in midfield created by the amc, regista and DM is apparent and allows us to switch play again. Clarke wins his battle with the WB to cross for another Depay goal at back post. Goal 3 - best of the bunch. Very patient build up drawing them in so they have 5 players near the ball.. then the BPD goes more direct to RW. Acres of space which Clarke is more than happy to drive into. Gets them on the back foot (they have probably switched to attacking mentality at this point)… you can smell the fear as he comes inside … nice pass to Terrier who finishes very well. PSG taken apart by a 17 year old winger and 18 year old Regista. Had to have been partly due to the space provided them by the formation matchup.
  17. Concept Tactical flexibility - instead of setting a tactic (or a few, using the slots) I will be adapting my tactic game by game depending on the opponent. This concept requires a deep squad or a squad full of players that can multi-task, so I thought a progressive strategy would be the best approach, allowing time to build the right squad and to hit some learning curves along the way. In season 1 I will be focussing on the opposition scout report; trying to think of a tactic which will nullify their attacking threats and exploit their defensive weaknesses. In later seasons I will be looking to go a step further and also isolate individual matchups; thinking about size, strength, pace and technical ability (who needs to be man marked, who can be beaten in a foot race, who do I need to double up on and who can be beaten in the air easily?) Tactics Whilst no formation will be set in stone as this will be the moving piece of the jigsaw, there are a few fundamentals I will abide by to create a tactical 'DNA' stamp on the team. Every tactic I create will use at least one playmaker and the idea will be to find him a pocket of space to operate in. This will be the focal point of my team and should disrupt the opposition as they will have to chase down the playmaker or allow him time and space to operate. There will be several TIs applied; Balanced mentality - to make the formation and roles paramount to success No PI - having to use the right role and duty combo without 'backdooring' Some additional TI to encourage a possession based game (Caveat:won't go into detail, there are many threads about possession... none of these are must haves and this isn't a possession based thread nor a main target... simply chosen to encourage a certain way of playing that can be achieved by more efficient means if you want to play possession football) The Team I've chosen Lyon - many squads are a bit threadbare or imbalanced when you take over in season 1. Lyon have an attack force that can play both wings, striker or amc (albeit not their preferred roles, but well enough to get by). They also have a few good u21s that can bulk up the squad (Solet and Caqueret promoted to the first team). They also had a few quid (30m) to bring a few faces in. I signed Ilsanker - to add some budget grit, Pepe - another fluid attacker as the likes of Cornet and Terrier are a bit raw, Clarke - young winger as all the current crop prefer to cut inside, Benat (loan) - to bolster my playmaker ranks. Other teams I considered were AC Milan & At Madrid. In it's conceptual infancy I like to start out a project like this with a pretty good team, many of the minnows don't have the depth and you might have one playmaker and lose interest pretty quickly when they get a 3 month injury. If it goes well though it's a strategy I would use to my advantage with an underdog team in the future. The observations and challenges The main thing i'll want to see from this is if playing a playmaker in as much space as possible benefits the playmaker significantly, or the team … or both/neither. Quite often in the past I've set my formation i.e. 4231 wide and chosen a DLP in the CM strata or AP in the AMC slot and stuck with it for majority of a season regardless of the opponent and their formation... can't say it's ever been a problem if the tactic is sound, but I've always been happy to allow the odd bogey team to creep up and do nothing about it. Here I will be pitting my wits against the opponent reactively and my playmaker is going to be the weapon of choice. It'll be interesting to see how theoretical weaknesses on paper can be exploited in practice - will my analysis be correct? Will my plan to deal with the opponent be correct? Will the plan go to plan...? It will be hard to know where I fail if I do fail... could be i'm misreading the strengths and weaknesses, or reading them correctly but coming up with a bad solution... or simply things may not work on the pitch due to players etc. Hopefully through constant review as I will have a dossier of formation matchups I will be able to create the right solutions in time. The major challenge is tactical familiarity - is it really a thing? and if so how much impact will it have? I will be playing players out of position or in roles they aren't 100% comfortable with.. and I will be playing a different formation, potentially, game to game. Setting a tactical style (DNA) is also a challenge - as it wont always be easy or the best plan to try and play out and keep the ball vs some opponents. But I feel there has to be some 'anchor' to create a style of play that should be consistent regardless of the formation. It's also a practical issue - the squad already has to be big and flexible, if I also change to direct play it would add another requirement to squad depth to have physical players capable of playing that way. Community involvement Due to a job change at the start of the year my FM time is significantly reduced so I don't plan on this being a particularly well documented long save/thread. Hopefully it provides food for thought for someone that wants to try a different way of playing. Perhaps people already do this and can add their insight? There are threads of frustrated users who try to build a tactic and don't see it working.. maybe being reactive rather than proactive is a method you could try (think Critical brain vs Creative brain... you may not suck at tactics, perhaps you are better at picking holes in someone else's than creating one from scratch)? I encourage spin off threads or adding to this thread... you can try it for one game or a handful or document a whole season. Will be interesting to see one players way of combating a 4231 compared to another player etc. .
  18. How's it playing in general.. Is the attacking element clicking? With every formation you are conceding space somewhere... When you play 3 at the back it's usually to get two strikers in the team, sacrificing wingers and letting the wbs provide attacking width. This will leave you vulnerable to the flanks as you can have 2 vs 1 against you. But in trying to prevent it you might detriment the positive uses of the 532.
  19. PIs can pretty much modify any role from its base. Was talking about mentality changes.
  20. I think there's a few nuances to attack duty that have been left out. A good example I used in my Leverkusen 442 was how I used my wingers. The difference between attack duty winger and support duty is significant. Yes the starting positions and tendency to track back are slightly different... But the biggest factor for me was their crossing point. The support winger looks to cross earlier from deeper positions, the attacking winger looks to get to the byline. Beyond and above all that's what I think about when selecting my wingers duty... If I have a target man who is good in the air but perhaps a little slow I'll use an attacking winger... The cross comes in later and allows the striker to get in position... With more of a poacher style striker with acceleration, off the ball and anticipation I'll use a support winger to get the balls in early and allow the striker a chance to nip in behind the defender or nick it infront of the defender. Attack vs support will have different effects along those lines for each role. With some roles it may simply be the mentality and how eager they are to run ahead of the ball (attack) or to stay near the ball (support) but with some roles it significantly alters their behaviour.
  21. Yeh it looks like an exploit until you realise by having no one come to stop the short corner it's just another defender in the 6 yard box to block everything to another 0-0 or 1-0 game decided by a 30 yarder or unmarked goal on a free kick.
  22. Numbers only tell part of the story. Let's say you expect man utd to score 15 long shots over the course of the season... And IRL they hit 13 and in your FM season you hit 16. The numbers would make it seem spot on. Also need some qualitive data too... I. E of those 15 I'd expect majority to be scored from wingers cutting in or central attacking players finding a pocket of space. And I'd accept the odd one or two from random situation. If in FM 10 of the 16 came from your inverted wingback who has 6 for long shots attribute and has ppm to pass instead of shoot and is on support duty and is surrounded by support duty midfielders including a DLP and an AP... And you are on balanced team mentality... You would not feel the situation is as realistic as the quantitive data suggested. Delve into further analysis and see the moment the player shot and the options he had available... Then you can see why this so called 'perception bias' shouldn't be written off quite so hastily just because the numbers don't quite back up the outcry.
  23. The stats are misleading to an extent. The goals and assists panel simply doesn't tie up a lot of the time
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