World cup commentary - Bring back Robbie Savage!

[Hodgy]

So far I've only listened to commentary for 3 matches and all of them have been truly terrible, 2 on ITV and 1 on BBC, such a turnaround from Euro 2016 when Robbie Savage really stood out as he imo done a fantastic job throughout that tournament both in being unbiased and making valid points too.

Firstly, in the Brazil game a Swiss player played a long pass forward which went straight out for a goal kick, the commentator (I believe it was Clive Tyldesley) then proceeded to say "Well that will count as a shot on target", yep a ball being kicked out of play for a goal kick referenced to as a bloody shot on target however I let that slide.

Another ITV game which I've blocked from my memory wound me up too but I muted it as I truly wondered whether the commentator had ever learnt the basics of the English language, due to that I decided no more listening to ITV commentators!

Then yesterday I watched Portugal on the BBC and turned the commentary on in the second half, what a mistake that was! I thought Keown was bad enough but the female commentator was really irritating.

I thought nothing more of it but today I read everyone's favourite newspaper and that mentioned a post John Terry made on Instagram:

Now I thought I was clearly of the same opinion however JT (who I don't particularly like) has been flamed for being a sexist ffs, he's even had to release a video explaining what he meant (I don't believe what he said but that is another story), surely he is allowed to say the female commentator (who he never referenced btw) is rubbish at her job without it being sexist right? I thought she was rubbish due to her just rambling on for the sake of it, none of what she was saying ever felt useful at all.

The BBC need to bring back Robbie Savage as their current team is terrible whilst ITV should move G Neville from the pundit team to the commentary team, I'd even prefer either to bring that vile scumbag Jamie Carragher in and listen to him than the dross both have right now.

Anyway I hope you're all enjoying the terrible commentators at this World Cup more than I am, I'm finding it so much more enjoyable muted and listening to podcasts which is a shame as I've genuinely never switched off commentary before 

[Andrew_]

Are you Robbie Savage? Only explanation i can think of.

[Barry Cartman]

John Terry is a twit, who knew 

[Carninho]

if its BBC you can press the red button and have the radio 5 commentators .

she is awful though. robbie savage is ***** too though lets be honest about this

[Barry Cartman]

Loving Terry's story that he came back off holiday and the sound didn't work on his TV, so he just had to let everyone know on Instagram 

Of course thats the reason John 

[Hodgy]

3 minutes ago, Carninho said:

if its BBC you can press the red button and have the radio 5 commentators .

she is awful though. robbie savage is ***** too though lets be honest about this

Cheers I never realised the red button had that option 

Savage is usually pretty bad but he did have a good Euro 2016 and me calling for him shows how terrible the current setup truly is.

3 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Loving Terry's story that he came back off holiday and the sound didn't work on his TV, so he just had to let everyone know on Instagram 

Of course thats the reason John 

It is such a bs made up story and truly laughable 

He'd have been better off just being honest and saying she, Keown or both are terrible and the reasoning why but yeah back from holiday and his audio is messed up but nothing else is, proper dumbass 

 

[CFuller]

I'd be interested to learn what exactly people found "irritating" about Vicki Sparks' commentary. Personally, I didn't think she was fantastic, but she'll get better with more experience, for sure. She also came across to me as more informative than Jonathan Pearce and her voice seemed less grating than Mark Lawrenson's.

Whenever Lawro comes on nowadays, I'm quick to switch to 5 Live commentary. I find Conor McNamara and Dion Dublin to be more enjoyable alternatives.

On the whole, though, I'm afraid that the standards of British football commentary are much lower now than in the days of John Motson, Barry Davies and Brian Moore. Of the current bunch, I'd say only Guy Mowbray, Jon Champion and Martin Tyler are anywhere near those three. The rest of them seem to be full of clichés and/or unintelligent rubbish, don't do their research, or they just like the sound of their own voice.

I've been trying to find a quote from Davies where he says along the lines of brevity being a good asset for a commentator, or that you should occasionally let the pictures speak for themselves. Today's commentators could learn a thing or two from him.

[Sons FC]

Everything Hodgy says is right...then he mentions the S word. We do not want Savage back!

It would be sexist if you disliked Vicki Sparks simply because she is a woman (and good luck to her) but I found her commentary very shrill. I also found it lacking in any real insights - similar to most of the male commentators. I am sure she will get better with experience though.

I think the Five Live commentators are the worst though and the co-commentators are extremely poor.

The only co-commentators on TV that I think that are doing well are Ally McCoist, Dion Dublin and...errr...that's about it.

[Boltman]

If only the technology had been around to clone Arthur Montford 

[Sons FC]

2 minutes ago, Boltman said:

If only the technology had been around to clone Arthur Montford 

That would be a stramash.

[Confused Clarity]

35 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Loving Terry's story that he came back off holiday and the sound didn't work on his TV, so he just had to let everyone know on Instagram 

Of course thats the reason John 

"hey, i'm not being a misogynist, HONEST!!".

It's hilarious how so many men seem to have difficulty dealing with a female voice on commentary.

[Big Geordie]

I've met Vicki Sparks before, as she used to work for BBC Newcastle. She's a canny lass - for a Chelsea supporter. I'm a traditionalist and still prefer to hear a male commentator, however.

As for Savage - I reckon he's on TV and 5Live too much as it is.

[Confused Clarity]

Being a "traditionalist" is such a ******** excuse for misogyny.

 

[HemHat]

People are allowed to have preferences, surely?

Nothing wrong with saying 'good luck to her but I prefer to listen to male commentators' is there?

Some people might prefer a woman rather than a man. Nothing wrong with that either.

[themadsheep2001]

39 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I'd be interested to learn what exactly people found "irritating" about Vicki Sparks' commentary. Personally, I didn't think she was fantastic, but she'll get better with more experience, for sure. She also came across to me as more informative than Jonathan Pearce and her voice seemed less grating than Mark Lawrenson's.

Whenever Lawro comes on nowadays, I'm quick to switch to 5 Live commentary. I find Conor McNamara and Dion Dublin to be more enjoyable alternatives.

On the whole, though, I'm afraid that the standards of British football commentary are much lower now than in the days of John Motson, Barry Davies and Brian Moore. Of the current bunch, I'd say only Guy Mowbray, Jon Champion and Martin Tyler are anywhere near those three. The rest of them seem to be full of clichés and/or unintelligent rubbish, don't do their research, or they just like the sound of their own voice.

I've been trying to find a quote from Davies where he says along the lines of brevity being a good asset for a commentator, or that you should occasionally let the pictures speak for themselves. Today's commentators could learn a thing or two from him.

She was a bit rambly, but no commentator is brilliant from the start. She knew what she was actually talking about, which is more can be said for most of the others, so I'd definitely like to see her do more

[Crispypaul]

I thought Sparks was fine.  Some banal remarks but that's consistent with all commentators!

[Confused Clarity]

@HemHat

Nah, not having that. 

You can reasonably have opinions on the quality or abilities of a commentator, but if that boils down to what genitals are between their legs, then it absolutely deserves to to be called out because it's outright nonsense. 

If somebody were to say they don't like Jemaine Jenas on the commentary team because they're a traditionalist and prefer their commentators to be white, there'd rightly be uproar. Why is it any different between gender and race?

[arenaross]

Honestly never thought I'd see the day where someone was willingly requesting MORE Robbie Savage. 

[Gazza D]

21 minutes ago, Big Geordie said:

I'm a traditionalist and still prefer to hear a male commentator

[Big Geordie]

24 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said:

Being a "traditionalist" is such a ******** excuse for misogyny.

 

I'm certainly not a woman hater!

There seems to be a choice on the BBC this year, with alternative commentary on 5Live. That's good enough for me.

Oh - and Jenas is vapid and as dull as dishwater.

[Carninho]

1 hour ago, CFuller said:

I'd be interested to learn what exactly people found "irritating" about Vicki Sparks' commentary.

I dont like the sound of her voice. its too high then only gets higher as she gets excited. I have listened to her and Terry Butcher on the way home in the car a few times and its not good from either of them.  I just think they get all the Z list matches. 

We were talking about her in the office this morning and the women here dont like her either, they say she sounds like a posh hockey teacher.

I'd take her over Alan Green any day though who seems to have a major problem with his S's the older he gets

* and she is better on the TV than the radio

[Bliss Seeker]

Actually think the pundits have been pretty good so far, with Alex Scott being by far the best and most interesting.  Haven't seen Aluko over on ITV, but did see Evra's patronising applaud thing when she just did her job.

Drogba's by far the worst pundit for me.  Just drab, and hasn't said anything of interest.  Not being fluent in English obviously doesn't help him.  Larsson is terrible too, and he **** right off with his constant vocal frying.

Only really noticed Lawro being awful so far on commentary (which is to be expected), so guess that's a good sign.  

 

And Savage is doing a great job where he currently is.  Out of earshot. 

[Bigwig]

I feel a bit sorry for commentators and pundits at tines. There are plenty I don’t rate but it can’t be nice having people pick apart every comment you make. 

I can honestly say a commentator has never made me mute a game. Funny how the people who mute it have and overwhelming need to tell everyone that they’ve muted it. 

[HemHat]

18 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said:

@HemHat

Nah, not having that. 

You can reasonably have opinions on the quality or abilities of a commentator, but if that boils down to what genitals are between their legs, then it absolutely deserves to to be called out because it's outright nonsense. 

If somebody were to say they don't like Jemaine Jenas on the commentary team because they're a traditionalist and prefer their commentators to be white, there'd rightly be uproar. Why is it any different between gender and race?

Fair point about gender v race, although I think it's a bit different because we're used to hearing male commentators only and a lot of people think a female voice is too high to have for the whole game. 

I think though you can choose to listen to what you like, so if you prefer to listen to a mans voice commentate, or sing a song, or read you an audio book then that is your choice.

Some people might think it misogynistic but ultimately different people have different views and as long as there's no active discrimination with her getting the job then people should be allowed to make their own choices about listening to her or not. 

I didn't hear her because I was at work so the TV's were on mute, but by and large commentators are largely useless anyway

[toon_84]

I've never liked Clive Tyldsley, his voice goes through me and his constant arselicking of whatever the flavour of the month is really grates on me. The plus is he won't be able to scream ROOOOOONAAAYY everytime he touches a ball.

I like Danny Murphy I think he's super at his job.

And a final mention for Martin Keown who had me in stitches with his dartboard comment. "I played against Gullit, who had a bandage on his knee and it was like a dartboard for me" 

[Carninho]

the horns in the Iran game last night made me turn it down...

WaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[enigmatic]

John Terry really is **** at excuses isn't he. Should have just said he hated listening to Martin Keown  

[Baptista_8]

1 hour ago, Barry Cartman said:

Loving Terry's story that he came back off holiday and the sound didn't work on his TV, so he just had to let everyone know on Instagram 

Of course thats the reason John 

Well yeah, it obviously was.

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, Bliss Seeker said:

Actually think the pundits have been pretty good so far, with Alex Scott being by far the best and most interesting.  Haven't seen Aluko over on ITV, but did see Evra's patronising applaud thing when she just did her job.

Drogba's by far the worst pundit for me.  Just drab, and hasn't said anything of interest.  Not being fluent in English obviously doesn't help him.  Larsson is terrible too, and he **** right off with his constant vocal frying.

Only really noticed Lawro being awful so far on commentary (which is to be expected), so guess that's a good sign.  

 

And Savage is doing a great job where he currently is.  Out of earshot. 

Alex Scott has been the best by a mile. Aluko was good as well

[Baptista_8]

I can't believe people rate Aluko.

[CFuller]

I'm not overly convinced by either Scott or Aluko yet, in all honesty. Again, they're relatively inexperienced and should get better.

Even so, Aluko saying that Hector Herrera marked Christian Eriksen out of Denmark's game against Peru is right up there when it comes to punditry gaffes at this World Cup. Not sure exactly whose fault that is, to be fair.

[Haguey]

Sad that the women need to try so much harder and do more research than the men to just barely be accepted, while Shearer can rock up not knowing who Slovakias star player is because hes one of the old boys.

[HemHat]

I've never forgiven/liked Shearer since he got my table moved at a restaurant in Portugal.

We'd booked way in advance for the mrs's birthday, a nice table on the outside deck. Was a nice evening as was looking forward to it. Shearer and his entourage turned up and said he wanted an outside table so we got moved indoors while the waiters ****** him off under the table.

[toon_84]

Sue Smith is a decent pundit but the BBC didn't take her for some reason.

[CFuller]

3 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Sad that the women need to try so much harder and do more research than the men to just barely be accepted, while Shearer can rock up not knowing who Slovakias star player is because hes one of the old boys.

Was it Shearer who said he didn't know much about Hatem Ben Arfa when he joined Newcastle?

I also seem to recall another pundit (Garth Crooks, I think) saying they had no idea who Christian Benteke was. Benteke had just signed for Villa after he'd scored a load of goals in Belgium.

[CFuller]

Just now, toon_84 said:

Sue Smith is a decent pundit but the BBC didn't take her for some reason.

I would have taken her over Alex Scott, in fairness. Rachel Brown-Finnis would also have sprung to mind if she wasn't heavily pregnant.

[Pukey]

Sparks was fine. Nothing amazing but nothing bad.

Tyldesley was an embarrassment and has been for some years. I've still never heard him use the word "ironic" correctly, and his constant whining about Ramos last night was ridiculous.

I've only vaguely paid attention to the pundits so far really, but at least the women seem to have done some form of research. 

[TM]

wasn't Savage not crying away in the Wales game's first half V England at Euro 2016 to the extent to which somebody must have had a word with him and he toned it down for the 2nd half

didn't think Sparks was that bad but lots of people are traditional and don't want to admit that women have an interest or even play the game of football.  I don't even think it's "token" either with the pundits in the studio or a commentator which is what most usually say, women's football is growing worldwide and is in turn bringing female audience to the game

[Baptista_8]

21 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Sad that the women need to try so much harder and do more research than the men to just barely be accepted, while Shearer can rock up not knowing who Slovakias star player is because hes one of the old boys.

Who says that? I don't like Shearer and a load of other male pundits as well. Same as thousands of others.

[The_jagster]

47 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

I feel a bit sorry for commentators and pundits at tines. There are plenty I don’t rate but it can’t be nice having people pick apart every comment you make. 

I can honestly say a commentator has never made me mute a game. Funny how the people who mute it have and overwhelming need to tell everyone that they’ve muted it. 

Or maybe there are others who haven't felt the need to tell us but by virtue of not saying so you don't know about them?

Will use the rest of this post as a summary:

Larsson, Drogba, Lampard, Upson and Evra haven't impressed me of the new ones, haven't seen much of Aluko and don't know what people rate Scott for either, having unearthed Davinson Sanchez yesterday and repeating the same clichés. However Larsson and Evra seem to think turning up is all the job requires.

Ferdinand however has impressed me, actually focussing on Walker's defending rather than crying at the ref, analysing what mistakes lead to a chance is exactly the thing the pundits should be discussing, actually informing the viewer.

Keown, Pearce, Pnev, Shearer, Tyldsley would not be missed and Lawro scrapes through because he's better than the BBC alternatives.

McCoist and Champion are a lot better than I'd expected and for his faults, Bilic at least seems to care and give a frank opinion. In a huge shock I actually prefer ITV's coverage, Tyldsley is the only in-game one I get annoyed by.

And Savage is awful on commentary.

[Haguey]

15 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Who says that? I don't like Shearer and a load of other male pundits as well. Same as thousands of others.

Because Scott and Aluko have come across like they know their stuff and some people still don't like them. It's fine to not like them if they were rubbish but they're not, or at least not as clueless as some of the usual mob.

They should just use Lampard, Bilic and Neville as pundits for anything anyway.

 

[Sons FC]

46 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Sad that the women need to try so much harder and do more research than the men to just barely be accepted, while Shearer can rock up not knowing who Slovakias star player is because hes one of the old boys.

Shearer is the absolute worst by a country mile.

I cannot understand how someone who played at the highest level can offer so little, No insights, no strategy or tactics, he simply repeats what is on the screen for everyone to see - you will get more insights talking with the locals in any pub in the land.

[Sons FC]

Have they learnt nothing from two World Cups ago. Apparently not.

Poor punditry punishes public

[ArsenalFan7]

Vicki Sparks just a bit bland in all honestly, didn't irk me but wasn't interesting, another in the line of commentators I don't care to listen to. I wouldn't mind seeing how Cesc and Alex Scott translate to commentary, I've enjoyed listening to them in the studio.

The man I'd really love to listen to commentate is Ray Hudson, that crackhead makes any game entertaining

[westy8chimp]

Watching Denmark vs Australia, this is the second or third time during the WC that I've heard Ally McCoist as commentator. I think he's doing a great job.

He seems like he is just commentating objectively on the game as it unfolds, talking about what is happening there and then, with enthusiasm and a sign-song voice to boot.

This is all I want from a commentator.

Too many seem fixated on preconceived ideas and agendas i.e. if Keown was on instead of McCoist, he would have highlighted pre-game how good a passer Eriksen is, then gone on about it for 45 minutes. Other commentators also tend to drift off talking about one players whole season for 10 mins, or the previous game, or the next game... or a different game altogether. McCoist is in the moment... it's really refreshing.

 

[Baptista_8]

42 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Because Scott and Aluko have come across like they know their stuff and some people still don't like them. It's fine to not like them if they were rubbish but they're not, or at least not as clueless as some of the usual mob.

They should just use Lampard, Bilic and Neville as pundits for anything anyway.

I'm going off Bilic a bit, comes across proper miserable.

[Ackter]

I liked Savage as a commentator because he's the only one who didn't actually have much of a bias.

[Ackter]

1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said:

I'm going off Bilic a bit, comes across proper miserable.

Yeah but watching him trying to touch and generally annoy Roy Keane in the studio was hilarious. After a couple of appearances Bilic is suddenly sat further away.

[Baptista_8]

Just now, Ackter said:

Yeah but watching him trying to touch and generally annoy Roy Keane in the studio was hilarious. After a couple of appearances Bilic is suddenly sat further away.

I missed that

[enigmatic]

34 minutes ago, Sons FC said:

Shearer is the absolute worst by a country mile.

I cannot understand how someone who played at the highest level can offer so little, No insights, no strategy or tactics, he simply repeats what is on the screen for everyone to see - you will get more insights talking with the locals in any pub in the land.

The funny thing is Shearer now is a million times better than when he first started out on MOTD. Even occasionally has an opinion these days.