Attribute Masking - Yes or No?

[Gee_Simpson]

For your save do you like to have attribute masking on or off? I'm just interested in what people choose.

I've always had it off for as long as I can remember so it's what I'm used to but I'm considering leaving it on this time.

[Roy Race 9]

some purists will say on always and you shouldn't buy until players have been scouted thoroughly, sounds good...however

if you follow that argument it is saying a manager has zero/very little knowledge of the football world everyone of us watches games and makes opinions based on what we see and also what the press tell us(like it or not it does influence our opinions)

anyone who is managing in a top league has/should have considerable knowledge of the players he wants to bring in, the scouts obviously do a great job especially in unearthing new talent and their input should be sought before making a transfer etc but.......

if Jose takes over at OT(or anywhere else) he will have a ''transfer list'' of his own regarding the players he wants as he has scouted them himself or had them scouted so in effect they are unmasked

I wish there was an option to unmask based on your knowledge of that said country so for someone like a jose the top players would be unmasked in europe and younger players in nations such as England/Portugal etc, however south America/Africa would be masked

[Gee_Simpson]

some purists will say on always and you shouldn't buy until players have been scouted thoroughly, sounds good...however

if you follow that argument it is saying a manager has zero/very little knowledge of the football world everyone of us watches games and makes opinions based on what we see and also what the press tell us(like it or not it does influence our opinions)

anyone who is managing in a top league has/should have considerable knowledge of the players he wants to bring in, the scouts obviously do a great job especially in unearthing new talent and their input should be sought before making a transfer etc but.......

if Jose takes over at OT(or anywhere else) he will have a ''transfer list'' of his own regarding the players he wants as he has scouted them himself or had them scouted so in effect they are unmasked

I wish there was an option to unmask based on your knowledge of that said country so for someone like a jose the top players would be unmasked in europe and younger players in nations such as England/Portugal etc, however south America/Africa would be masked

I take it you would leave it off then? I'm just running a test save atm with it on and I'm surprised that even players in the same league need scouted further and sometimes even some players in your own team take a while for your coaches to find out their actual potential ability. I'm also surprised that very well known players irl still need scouted.

[MichaelBrown]

Personally I use it as it adds a little bit of realism to the game and means scouts are necessary. Can see why some wouldn't though.

''I wish there was an option to unmask based on your knowledge of that said country so for someone like a jose the top players would be unmasked in europe and younger players in nations such as England/Portugal etc, however south America/Africa would be masked'' - Think this is a really good idea actually.

[Guest]

Attribute masking on & on the player profile page I change the attribute panel to show graph rather than number.

[Guest]

some purists will say on always and you shouldn't buy until players have been scouted thoroughly, sounds good...however

if you follow that argument it is saying a manager has zero/very little knowledge of the football world everyone of us watches games and makes opinions based on what we see and also what the press tell us(like it or not it does influence our opinions)

anyone who is managing in a top league has/should have considerable knowledge of the players he wants to bring in, the scouts obviously do a great job especially in unearthing new talent and their input should be sought before making a transfer etc but.......

if Jose takes over at OT(or anywhere else) he will have a ''transfer list'' of his own regarding the players he wants as he has scouted them himself or had them scouted so in effect they are unmasked

I wish there was an option to unmask based on your knowledge of that said country so for someone like a jose the top players would be unmasked in europe and younger players in nations such as England/Portugal etc, however south America/Africa would be masked

A purist (LLM zealot) wouldn't start that high up & as their approach is to role play a manager's career in FM world the real world doesn't exist, as the save progresses & they gain experience of that FM world they will (should) behave in the way that you describe.

Personally I use competition subscriptions to keep me up to date on the players making a name for themselves in my save, I will then create notes & add player to my shortlist based on the information I read. As irl if I pay little or no attention to the world outside my club then I will have fewer players that I know of & will be totally reliant on my scouting team.

I take it you would leave it off then? I'm just running a test save atm with it on and I'm surprised that even players in the same league need scouted further and sometimes even some players in your own team take a while for your coaches to find out their actual potential ability. I'm also surprised that very well known players irl still need scouted.

It all depends on your manager's knowledge level, the higher you set it the more your manager knows about players without the need to scout.

Personally I use it as it adds a little bit of realism to the game and means scouts are necessary. Can see why some wouldn't though.

''I wish there was an option to unmask based on your knowledge of that said country so for someone like a jose the top players would be unmasked in europe and younger players in nations such as England/Portugal etc, however south America/Africa would be masked'' - Think this is a really good idea actually.

That should be how it works at the moment & again the higher your player knowledge rating the more you know without scouting

[Gee_Simpson]

It all depends on your manager's knowledge level, the higher you set it the more your manager knows about players without the need to scout.

Which I had set to a high number (18) in that test save to see how many players he knew of without scouting and tbh there wasn't that many.

[Guest]

I've just added a manager with a player knowledge rating of 18 to my save, without continuing player search returns 62,142 out of approx 120,000 players & foreign players with a reputation below 5000 have mos of their attributes fully revealed & those attributes that were not fully known had a 2 to 3 point range.

Edit: The above manager was added to a Bundesliga side so I added the same profile to a Regionaliga West side, the number of known players was significantly reduced but the attribute knowledge of those players was the same as when managing the Bundesliga side so it does appear that the club's scouting team is the key factor in how many players are immediately shown on the known players list but not the ability to assess the attributes of players without scouting.

AFAIK the number of players known would be the same regardless of attributing masking being on or off so out of interest & as it's in line with the OP's question why do people activate attribute masking & what are your expectations its impact on your game?

[bestbrother]

I have it turned off as I just dont see the point of not having it there (probably from being a fan of the older games).

On top of that I dont bother with scouts or my staff at all tbh, I just get the Chairman to hire a DOF, and he then hires/fires/contracts whatever all the coaching/scouting staff for me.

To find players I just sort the search list by the attribute I want and click around that way.

[Gee_Simpson]

I've just added a manager with a player knowledge rating of 18 to my save, without continuing player search returns 62,142 out of approx 120,000 players & foreign players with a reputation below 5000 have mos of their attributes fully revealed & those attributes that were not fully known had a 2 to 3 point range.

Edit: The above manager was added to a Bundesliga side so I added the same profile to a Regionaliga West side, the number of known players was significantly reduced but the attribute knowledge of those players was the same as when managing the Bundesliga side so it does appear that the club's scouting team is the key factor in how many players are immediately shown on the known players list but not the ability to assess the attributes of players without scouting.

AFAIK the number of players known would be the same regardless of attributing masking being on or off so out of interest & as it's in line with the OP's question why do people activate attribute masking & what are your expectations its impact on your game?

Interesting. I would also like to know what people's views are on this part in bold. Why do you have it on btw?

[tiago_wakabayashi]

No. I would accept it if were optional. Optional is the key word.

[Guest]

It is optional, the question is asking why do people choose to activate attribute masking.

[Gee_Simpson]

When do the black stars change into confirmed potential ability or do they at all?

[Guest]

As a rule the uncertainly is removed once a player is considered to be beyond their core development phase or if the scout is absolutely confident in their assessment of the player's potential.

[Gee_Simpson]

So, say a 3* player has a 4.5* potential ability in black, that means the scout is unsure or that's the potential he thinks the player can reach?

[Guest]

Pretty much, the scout is sure they have at least 3* potential (they can still wrong on this) but that there is evidence to suggest they might develop into a 4.5* player.

Personally I'd like to see less use of the black stars when the knowledge of the player is below a set value, say 30%-50% based on the scout's nation knowledge as I still think it's a little too easy to find that hidden gem with nation/region scouting assignments,

Actually gives me an idea test & now that I've bought the IGE its one that I can get satisfactory data on.

[Gee_Simpson]

Ah I didn't know that even with attribute masking off there is now black stars regardless. As you can tell I haven't played recent versions since (last one I played was FM13). When was this introduced?

[Guest]

Well, the answer seems pretty obvious tbh, but if you don't know the attributes then you are left with a range of possible values for each attribute, or none at all showing. If you disable it, there's not as much of a need for a scouting team. When enabled it requires more time to track the player over a period of games, etc.

You would think so but since the new system was introduced there have been comments about it being ridiculous that I can't see this attribute or I know this player is good irl so I should know his attributes in FM. There have been occasions where I've felt people want to use attributing masking as a badge of difficulty but don't want the hassle of all the effort involved & are trying to justify workarounds or a scaling back of the system. It's why I posed the question.

For me the new system is one of the best decisions made, I just wish the report card wasn't so quick & accurate in picking out the hidden attributes. Being told that a 17 year old with no history of serious injury problems might have serious problems with injuries or that with 0 senior appearances is a consistent player & enjoys big matches doesn't make sense to me & that is something I'd really like SI to tweak in the near future because it's still too easy to discard players with poor hidden attributes.

[noikeee]

I always have attribute masking on, and I start from the bottom as an unqualified manager and work my way up, but I don't go the whole full-crazy LLM way, and tend to use the player search panel quite extensively for hiring players that fit the attributes I want (which I then scout, to be sure they're as good as I think). Clubs have computers and databases to search for players these days.

[Trinidad]

I normally have it off for realism. It gives values to scouts and affiliate clubs ( having more knowledge of players at those clubs) and also adds more of a challenge as u won't find every player within your search parameters in the world. Just like real life.

[Guest]

I totally get why people wouldn't care to use it, and having it on still requires some scouting. I just prefer to try and be more an imaginary world when creating a manager. I don't think of the manager as being myself when I play, but rather some manager character who has his own story. That's why I like to go with masking on and then go off of the manager's player knowledge that gets assigned at the start of the game. I'm one of those weirdos too who wishes the game could actually work properly with no real names for players, and who enjoys the game much more in the year 2030 or so than in the year 2015 (except that the AI can't build squads).

Same for me, obviously real life tactical appreciation & the way I interaction with NPC's is a match for me irl but player knowledge is solely based on the knowledge I acquire from day one of my save.

[Antonin]

For your save do you like to have attribute masking on or off? I'm just interested in what people choose.

I've always had it off for as long as I can remember so it's what I'm used to but I'm considering leaving it on this time.

For me, the answer is "off." I've always found FM (and CM before FM) to be an extremely difficult game. I embrace anything that will make it a little bit simpler. My objective when I play is to HAVE FUN and forget about the many problems of real life.

[Gee_Simpson]

I've decided not to use attribute masking in the end. As the above post mentions, the game is already hard enough imo. I've never used it from the first FM game I've played (FM08) up to now. It's just what I'm used to I guess.

[Soninho]

I have it on..

Played since 99/00 and remember my squads always getting too similar at the end of my saves, and in the end found the game to be very repetitive..

Think attribute masking and dynamic reputation on various things has made FM more fun and entertaining for me.

Much more exciting to try and scout for a wonderkid newgen now, instead of just press search and then buy..

But this is just my opinion!

[Guest]

Feel the need to break my real world knowledge rule, just had Ingo Anderbrügge apply for a scouting job & as we have a shared history having played for the same local club at youth level I can't ignore such football fate.

[mrw072]

I always use attribute masking, mainly because when I do the player search I think it adds a bit of difficulty if some of the attributes I like in players may be missing from my search. So from there i'll send my scouts to check the players out.

[Koetzer]

I always choose yes if start with a club or unemployed, but not with a national team, as NT scouting works very poor.

[jlawlor91]

I always end up signing the same wonderkids, find the same players on the transfer list and only have a handful of targets each save, so I don't mask attributes as it would limit possible signings even further!

[Hovis Dexter]

The first time I tried playing with attributes masked I thought it made the game much too difficult but I've changed my mind and now play with attributes masked. It seems much too easy to search for all players with, say, determination, ball control and natural fitness of of 15 or whatever. I've also stopped using the IGE this year and haven't used any external editors or search programmes for a couple of years

[JeffDogg]

I don't hide attributes

[DementedHammer]

Always hidden. On top of that, my manager's player knowledge attributes are set to 1.

I would do the above regardless. But, as I usually start as the manager of a super low level Sunday League club, it significantly adds to the realism not knowing a thing about who is rocking up each week. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by DementedHammer

[wkdsoul]

No attributes... go full @Cleon

[YOUNGSTEVE]

The game is to simple as it is. This a no brainer to at least make it a bit of a challenge.

[Novem9]

Hide for deep game, no hide just for fun or/and quick saves

[Paddy9596]

I know I shoooooould, but meh, I cba, it’s nice to just search the stats you want

[Hovis Dexter]

3 hours ago, YOUNGSTEVE said:

The game is to simple as it is. This a no brainer to at least make it a bit of a challenge.

+ 2

[thehig2]

I have it off doesn't add to realism makes the game more tedious than it needs to be.

In real life you can get an idea of a players skill set by watching matches hes been in his video, so to not know if hes fast, or has a good touch until a scout watches him play isnt totally realistic and doesn't add to the immersion.

 

[Halofon]

Well, I do not mask. But reading this thread Maybe I will start doing it. I usually skip pre season frendlies to assistant, asi I find it boring, but this would make it important for me. If there was just the option to leave the physical attribs unmasked, as one guy here few days ago mentioned, you can pretty much asses your players speed and stamina based on KPIs

[Robioto]

22 year veteran player here. I never play with attribute masking. It makes it frustrating for me to be honest and adds another layer of micromanagement that I'm not arsed with.

[GerdMuller]

Always on, in LL its actually the game to unearth the good players by very peripheral knowledge and i higher leagues your scouts mostly are so good you know a lot of the players anyway. Even more fun to have some myteries and actal managing and risk taking to do. Otherwise i could just download a wonderkids list and have them go at it, creating an unbeatable club everytime. Just not my kind of playing style, and it is really very nice to really find someone sometimes by just sseing him play against you, very selective scouting and luck sometimes. Nothing can be rewarding as that. The the new Andreas Möller once in my 3rd German 3rd league squad and was able to buy a player later on that also cracked the national team later. 

I like the scout and other magaerial micro managment a lot to a point, i come from german football managers and actually love to manage the club . In a German manager role that means everything , but the tactics, training and everything football hands on related but finances . Hidden atts is basic for me, i hate the training and tactics micromanagement though.

Edited July 22, 2019 by GerdMuller

[Nobby_McDonald]

For me it's a no brainer. Attribute masking on. I never even consider turning it off. When I'm managing Bishop's Stortford (since I'm there in my current save), I'm not going to know that Angus McPass has a passing stat of 5 playing for Jock Thistle in Scottish non league.

[Halofon]

I am thinking of masking all the attributes next save just as somebody here posted - to mask every attribute even of my own players. Unmask only physical attributes as those can be assessed by some tests on treadmills etc, but no manager can look at the plazer and say that he has a 12 passing ability. This will make me watch whole matches to asses players based on how they play instead of the attributes.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Halofon

[scott92507]

Halofon: What is missing from the game, though, are the hours and hours of practice that a manager would have watched. I think a manager WOULD know the abilities of his players.  He has watched their passing, finishing, tackling drills, etc. He has watched them in jumping drills, and he knows which players can get airborne. Etc. He would be less familiar with the attributes of his opponents, but I think he would be very familiar with his own players.

[Guest]

Simple answer: Yes. I like to have the best scout dept. 

[Icy]

Always on as it's a way to challenge myself so i can't just do a player search and decide fast who I want to sign, kind of like in the old LLM days you had as rule that you could only sign players you had scouted before.

What I wonder is if the AI managers do have attribute masking ON as well.

[USASoundersFan]

I wish staff had attribute masking too.

[phd_angel]

No masking. In the world of digital databases, it's just realistic.

Good question. Any way you can open a survey poll? 

[Zemahh]

It's realistic for any manager to know tens of thousands of players' every little detail, before even needing to consult his scouting team? Nah.

Disabling attribute masking takes away every need to actually plan your transfers or scout ahead and makes this game a joke. You can literally just scroll through youth national teams or other clubs and simply pick the best. Or even better, filter for players through Player Search and of course get the best possible pick available, since there's no hidden attributes. Even if you still request Scout Reports, they will be far more detailed and accurate than they would be normally, since you already have a 100% knowledge.

Play the game however you enjoy it, but don't kid yourself that disabling attribute masking isn't cheating. Want better knowledge of players? Increase your Player/Youngster Knowledge on the manager creation screen. Hire scouts or coaches with better scouting knowledge. Buy better Scouting Packages. Can't afford them? Too bad, a Vanarama North side isn't meant to have a scouting knowledge of Barcelona anyway.

[RBKalle]

1 ora fa, Zemahh ha scritto:

It's realistic for any manager to know tens of thousands of players' every little detail, before even needing to consult his scouting team? Nah.

Tens of thousands from across the globe? No.

But having to fully scout a player who's been part of the domestic league for like 2 years (or even players in the National Pool for NT managers) is simply as absurd as knowing about the Composure of Mamadou Diarra playing in the Nigerian league.

1 ora fa, Zemahh ha scritto:

Disabling attribute masking takes away every need to actually plan your transfers or scout ahead and makes this game a joke. You can literally just scroll through youth national teams or other clubs and simply pick the best. Or even better, filter for players through Player Search and of course get the best possible pick available, since there's no hidden attributes. Even if you still request Scout Reports, they will be far more detailed and accurate than they would be normally, since you already have a 100% knowledge.

On the other hand, scouting reports have been getting less and less useful, with the need to scout a player 10 times for a cost (even when he's part of the Scouting Package).

Without masking, Scouting is useless because all you need is to sort players in the search tab.
With masking, Scouting is useless because it'll take weeks to find out stuff real-life managers know already.

World knowledge has become indeed useless and farcical. I have a Brazilian scout/coach, I shouldn't need to send a scout out there to watch a promising striker who's already been part of the NT to assess his abilities.
Sure, scouting him MORE may help fine-tune the attributes knowledge, but I shouldn't get stuff like "9-15" after several sessions of scouting. Actually I shouldn't get it at all.

1 ora fa, Zemahh ha scritto:

Play the game however you enjoy it, but don't kid yourself that disabling attribute masking isn't cheating. Want better knowledge of players? Increase your Player/Youngster Knowledge on the manager creation screen. Hire scouts or coaches with better scouting knowledge. Buy better Scouting Packages. Can't afford them? Too bad, a Vanarama North side isn't meant to have a scouting knowledge of Barcelona anyway.

A Vanarama North side will probably know more about Barcelona B than about their next week's rivals in the league...

The huge dichotomy here is between what many consider "public knowledge" due to sheer exposure and what is indeed "insiders knowledge" built via careful scouting, international links etc.

FM goes from one extreme (you can get accurate infos about a Namibian side at first glance) to the other (as an EPL manager, you'll still need to scout your CL rivals to know about their backup striker with international experience).

I can't blame people for not caring about the new, punishing scouting system. And calling it cheating is a bit of an exaggeration. Is it cheating watching a lot of fooball and knowing more players than the average sofa-fan?

[corn_onthecurb]

Given how much data analytics/data collection in football has progressed in recent years, it's very likely top teams have gigabytes upon gigabytes of data on players around the world.