Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Nick_CB]

4 minutos atrás, Svenc disse:

What do you mean with that threat wasn't there. I thought it was widely acknowledged that FM12 = best ME ever.  
 

 

Wtf

[haffaz77]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Svenc:

What do you mean with that threat wasn't there. I thought it was widely acknowledged that FM12 = best ME ever.  
 

 

Jesus Christ 

[Mitja]

37 minutes ago, Svenc said:

 

 

Looks like defensive vs defensive mentality.

[GunmaN1905]

Finishing and other obvious issues like pinball in the box after set pieces aside, because those things are hard to balance, one thing is should be easy to fix.
Number of long balls over the defense and their accuracy.
Even if the defense sits deep and doesn't have to cover a lot of space, those passes are absolutely perfect and make the game completely unrealistic.
No point in defending deep when those passes just make the defense look ridiculous and conversion ratio is so low. Might aswell push it up at all times.

Just reducing the long pass tendencies and accuracy would improve the ME by a lot.
As I said some time ago, there has to be another attribute which determines passing range.

If there's finishing and long shots attribute and if keepers have kicking and passing, idk why isn't there another attribute for players?
Every CB with 12 passing looks like Xavi or Pirlo, multiple times per game.
 

Edited January 4, 2020 by GunmaN1905

[bleventozturk]

Is it me or are there too few injuries in this version? Seems like SI gave in to people whining about too many injuries, although the amount of injuries was in fact already less than real life in previous versions. This is one area where I would like to see more realism personally, but I think the majority don't like to see it because people just love to crank up the training intensity and watch their players grow without the consequence of increased risk for injuries.

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, Mitja said:

Looks like defensive vs defensive mentality.

Actually, no, as the d-line is too aggressive. Let's say there was an editor experiment involved (all Bayern Players work rate, Aggression, bravery etc. nerfed to 1s). Plus FM12 wasn't exactly the release of long ball opportunity taken in General, even if there was ample such, as in the video. I tried to go all Egil Olsen in Norway, and even on the most aggressive mentalities, passing ranges, all manually tweaked, you barely ever had a single ball played back to front. That's why I was so delighted when FM13 rolled around all you had to do was sticking up a Target Man up top, and immediately you had completely different Kind of play. Looking back at some of the defensive shapes of the FM12 era, if the Long ball had ever been overly taken back then, Boy oh Boy there would have been a lot more of 1vs1s (or hopefully better yet Forwards squaring it for cut backs and tap-ins, as they actually take the keeper out of the Picture).  

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Svenc

[RandomGuy.]

Haven't played for a while in the hope this had been sorted...

So, so frustrating to come up to a huge game to a team you're directly competing with late in the season.

Spend time analysing their weaknesses, set up your own team to try and dominate that.

It works perfectly and you batter them. But for some reason, your strikers can't score four times when they're standing alone in the box because theyre completely incapable of doing anything other than shooting straight at the goalkeeper, even when theres no pressure on them.

Makes the game feel completely pointless tbh.

[Toshevbgg]

On 18/12/2019 at 12:29, Neil Brock said:

There's a number of issues which have been raised by the community, but having spoken to the match team in more depth, there's a few things on the radar. With one-on-ones it's not as simple as say 'players are missing too many', first of all, why are they missing them? Are they ignoring players in better positions and taking on shots from worse angles? Sometimes yes. But then we can't always have the players making the right decisions every time as that isn't realistic either. It's a real balancing act. We can't just up their ability to score one on ones, it's not that simplistic. But yes, conversion and how these chances are taken is something we're looking at.

We're also aware that defending longer balls through the middle requires attention and appreciate everyone who has raised examples. We've also seen a number of people raise issues with missed penalties. This is more of an odd one as our stats taken over thousands of seasons to get an average suggest that the overall number of penalties converted per season is about right - so we've got a bit more of a theory that perhaps there's an issue specifically with highly rated penalty takers. This is something under review, but as with everything else it's not always quite as obvious as it seems. 

We're also aware of an issue related to clear cut chances being record inaccurately - sometimes chances are being marked as CCC when if you watch them back they may be considered half chances or even less. This is giving an inflated view that lots of chances are being missed which should be scored. That's not to try and say that conversion rates are perfect and it's just the stats showing it wrong, but we do think this could do with some tweaking alongside the match AI. Just because I've not mentioned other specifics doesn't mean other issues are being ignored. There are hundreds of areas we'd like to try and improve, some of which are more realistic than others given our resources. What we always aim for is a balanced, fair match engine which outputs the kinds of results which the appropriate team strengths and tactical setups should be achieving. We do feel like we have that now, but of course we're aware of feedback and as said, are always striving to improve the game where we can. 

Realistically the match engine is not an easy area of the game to improve and given the amount of work and testing required to make sure any changes do as we expect and don't have any knock-ons, we're going to need time. Whilst the old adage of never say never, with the holidays approaching it's unlikely we'll be able to release any further changes to the match engine until the New Year. We really do appreciate anyone who takes the time to raise any issue or add additional examples via the match engine bug forums. We'll still be adding to and logging new issues into our bugs database to make sure everything is recorded and can be investigated by our match team. Appreciate those who take the time to read these types of messages from us. We are busy so don't always have the time to respond to every post, but we do try to make sure as much as possible is read.

Also would appreciate at this time of year remember the Mods on these forums are volunteers. They're not paid for helping out, they do so as they just want people to try and enjoy the game and when on these forums, be able to engage with each other in the best way possible. Whilst you don't always have to agree with them (or us for that matter) please try to respect their opinions. Likewise everyone at SI and within the Mod team tries to respect your opinions, even if they're critical of us. All we'd ask is if you are criticising please try and keep it constructive. We don't want to be in a position where we're restricting anyone's access to these forums, but direct attacks on other users, moderators or the development team won't be tolerated. 

Cheers. 

2019  1st CR7 29 Goals 2nd Salah 23 Goals 3rd Werner 22 goals

2020 1st Felix 26 goals 2nd Lautaro Martinez 21 goals 3rd CR7 20 goals

2021 1st Morata 25 goals 2nd Mbappe 23 goals 3rd Mousa Dembele 22 goals

2022 1st Rafael Leo 22 goals 2nd Mbappe 20 goals 3rd Morata 20 goals

2023 1st Kane 28 goals 2nd Mbappe 25 goals 3rd Morata 25 goals

2024 1st Huerta 24 Goals 2nd Lincoln 24 goals 3rd Kane 24 goals

I mean you can clearly see a pattern here . 

Most Top scorers in the game are decent Headers apart from Mbappe who is still with PSG and they are thrashing everybody

Morata has finishing 13 and Heading 18 but he is tall. Kane has excellent finishing but he is also very tall

Rafael Leio is tall as well with decent heading

Dembele tall aswell good header

CR7 tall and great header

 

This is results for European Golden Shoe..

As you can easily see the problem is enormous... Nobody can score goals . Messi does not have above 15 goals. Mane eclipsed 14 goals once. salah scored 23 goals and hasnt gotten more then 15 since then. MBappe scores 20 goals in 40 games in france..

You need tall strikers so they can score half the goals with headers or you are busted. Its very hard I mean.. You cant recruit players for your team now cuz u have to change them in patch. The "meta " right now is to take two footed tall players so they can give u 5/6 headers 4/5 penalties and maybe they will score 10 goals with their feet if you dominate like crazy.. If they fix it you have to butcher your tyeam of those. Messi best season was 19 goals . He finished with 12/13/13/14/15/. (his 19th is his last at 36) . Also he takes free kicks ansd peanlties ... He has like 6/7 goals from open plays

 

So its not about tactic problems. Its just nobody can score goals especially "small gifted players"

Lets look at some other players in my save

Hazard his first 3 years he finished with 9 8 6 goals in 35 games+ 

Werner Real Madrid striker  16 15 9 15

Rashofrd AML/ST Chelsea 5 5 13 8

Haaland 150million valuation he is 1/6/2/9 as AML for United

Lautoro Martinez 150 milion United striker 16 14 9 6(14 games played)

Depay Stiker for Juve now 13 11 10 10 

Lukaku still in inter main man 18/13/11/10/12 

Almost nobody has more then 15 goals and all of them have poor grades because of their misses. 

 

So I must say that the problem is veryy big. its not your tactics  its happening to the AI. In every league there is maximum one player with 20 goals or more and in some there is none. A golden booth was won with 22 goals.. Third place had 19 or what something like this

 

The Huerte case when he won Golden booth. The next season (This one he is 24 games 10 goals. My team is better we are playing better football making more chances but his RNG is awful and he keeps missing them. I put it just to blind luck he scored 25 goals . Problem is now when I see him sturggling i keep thinking its my fault and

i try to fix it somehow but there is no solution. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Toshevbgg

[jsx7ste]

4 hours ago, KiLLu12258 said:

you nailed it with your post. The main issue is that this ME doesnt look like real football, not even a bit and it just looks not fun to watch. 

My biggest issue with this that i think it was better directly after the release and it seems like they are not able to fix the biggest issue it has. 

I tryed like 10 different formations and every setting i could change but my team (gladbach) played the exactly same random style every game, with like 10 1on1 situations were my striker missing the goal and the opponent playing with 10 long balls over my defenders just watching how nicely the ball is flying over them.

 

 

I have to disagree with this. I see a big difference in my extended highlights between playing short slow tempo passing game and high tempo direct football.  I do agree with the Long Balls over the top of defenders point and of course the abysmal 1v1 has been well documented. 

[TIR669]

I'll be quick and precise as most of the key stuff was already posted and explained thoroughly in my opinion, detailed enough for SI to fix those issues. I'll post two gifs from my latest game, lost 0-2. Two goals scored in 49th and 62nd minute, both classified as own goals.

I'm going to say that the stupidest thing in this example is that a player that scored two own goals in a 0-2 defeat got a 6.7 rating, joint second-best in team. With one key pass and one key header made from his natural right back position. That fact is more than I could say on the level of brokenness and the shambles FM20 ME actually is. Because its goals like these, long balls from defense and the majority of CCC ending up safely in keepers' arms and numerous scorchers from distance scored by my useless players with long shots less than 8... All of that happening over and over and over again perfectly describes the state the game is currently in.

Yuck.

Edited January 4, 2020 by TIR669

[dabest]

It seems to me that goals scored in league games are capped over the season so that the numbers match the leagues average goals over the season in real life.

Its obvious because in friendlies/cup games for me, players seem to do what they're being asked to do. For example in a friendly a winger will cut back / cross for a striker in the box, compared to a league game where he will 9/10 shoot into the side netting so that you dont score too many goals.

I've just gone from winning 1-0 in the league missing countless chances to winning 7-0 in the champions league, and i believe its because there isnt this 'cap' on the team limiting the goals scored so its not too unrealistic compared to real life. 

I actually broke the record for the most goals scored in the europa league by the 2nd leg of the quarter final!!!

Hope that makes sense

[Toshevbgg]

11 minutes ago, TIR669 said:

I'll be quick and precise as most of the key stuff was already posted and explained thoroughly in my opinion, detailed enough for SI to fix those issues. I'll post two gifs from my latest game, lost 0-2. Two goals scored in 49th and 62nd minute, both classified as own goals.

I'm going to say that the stupidest thing in this example is that a player that scored two own goals in a 0-2 defeat got a 6.7 rating, joint second-best in team. With one key pass and one key header made from his natural right back position. That fact is more than I could say on the level of brokenness and the shambles FM20 ME actually is. Because its goals like these, long balls from defense and the majority of CCC ending up safely in keepers' arms and numerous scorchers from distance scored by my useless players with long shots less than 8... All of that happening over and over and over again perfectly describes the state the game is currently in.

Yuck.

Thats 90% of the goals i Concede. I just checked  I am leading the league with 8 goals conceded from IFk and others are like this. Cross it goes to someone etc and tap in (

[Tiger666]

Is there an issue with Jumping Height for newgens? Every newgen I get is poor in it.

[Novem9]

33 минуты назад, Tiger666 сказал:

Is there an issue with Jumping Height for newgens? Every newgen I get is poor in it.

You can create new topic in bug forum. Even if SI know about this problem they replied you about this it's better in compare of don't inform, for our long perspectives

[bleventozturk]

1 hour ago, Tiger666 said:

Is there an issue with Jumping Height for newgens? Every newgen I get is poor in it.

Fwiw, they seem ok in my save.

[Miravlix]

7 hours ago, Svenc said:

What do you mean with that threat wasn't there. I thought it was widely acknowledged that FM12 = best ME ever.  

 

I don't get why you talk about ME and then link to a video of 3D gameplay. The ME has nothing to do with how good or bad 3D looks.

 

The ME is purely mathematical calculations as far as I know, there is no physics engine or 3D/2D related influence in it. Like the FM19 thing where goalkeepers walk across the back line to create a corner, because the ME has calculated that a corner is created, we can argue about whatever the ME create the correct number of corners, we can't argue about the 2D/3D choosing GK walking over the back line to create the corner and blame the ME for it.

[themadsheep2001]

These personal back and forths at each really need to stop now. If you have an issue with a post, use the report button. It's been said enough times now that posts will simply be removed

[Travis Bickle]

Will ME updates be save game compatible? The game doesn't bother me that much but I do find the long balls over the D-line an issue. If it's save game compatible I am happy. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Travis Bickle said:

Will ME updates be save game compatible? The game doesn't bother me that much but I do find the long balls over the D-line an issue. If it's save game compatible I am happy. 

ME updates are nearly always save game compatible, don't want to say always because you never know what the future holds but I can't remember one not being compatible in the past, put it that way. 

[Travis Bickle]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

ME updates are nearly always save game compatible, don't want to say always because you never know what the future holds but I can't remember one not being compatible in the past, put it that way. 

What about the issue with UEFA coefficients not being calculated correctly? (The game only reads 4 years of history instead of 5)? 

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, Travis Bickle said:

What about the issue with UEFA coefficients not being calculated correctly? (The game only reads 4 years of history instead of 5)? 

That I'm not sure of to be honest. I'd be a lot less certain of that personally, but we wouldn't know till SI dropped an update on that

[Travis Bickle]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That I'm not sure of to be honest. I'd be a lot less certain of that personally, but we wouldn't know till SI dropped an update on that

That one kinda sucks tbh. It's a major impact on how European football works. I wouldn't say it's game-breaking but it's whatever tier is under that. 

[bleventozturk]

Just finished the first half of the first season in my new save, and my CCC conversion rate is still out of this world, and opposite of what many are experiencing. Still cruising at a crazy 78%!

I am managing Altinordu in Turkish 2. division. I just used the possession football built-in/default tactic with slight modifications, depending on the opponent, and with a team that was expected to stay out of relegation zone, I am in 2nd position in the league. Just feels so easy with how efficient my players are in front of the goal. 

[FrazT]

5 hours ago, dabest said:

It seems to me that goals scored in league games are capped over the season so that the numbers match the leagues average goals over the season in real life.

Its obvious because in friendlies/cup games for me, players seem to do what they're being asked to do. For example in a friendly a winger will cut back / cross for a striker in the box, compared to a league game where he will 9/10 shoot into the side netting so that you dont score too many goals.

I've just gone from winning 1-0 in the league missing countless chances to winning 7-0 in the champions league, and i believe its because there isnt this 'cap' on the team limiting the goals scored so its not too unrealistic compared to real life. 

I actually broke the record for the most goals scored in the europa league by the 2nd leg of the quarter final!!!

Hope that makes sense

Goals scored are not capped- period.

[iAlwaysWin]

3 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Goals scored are not capped- period.

Am not disputing the fact that goals are capped but how can you category state that goals are not capped considering you have no access to the game coding and what goes on behind closed doors.

Seems a defensive post if I ever saw one without no inside knowledge whatsoever.

[EdL]

Ok, I do have the code, there is no cap

[Issy]

Normally i should be happy to go back to 2-2 in away game.

But at the end of the match I preferred to uninstall the game, even if a patch came out, it would surprise me that it fix all the problems of the ME.

This is the last time I buy an FM... at least before reading a feedback topic.

 

 

[kiwityke1983]

6 hours ago, Toshevbgg said:

2019  1st CR7 29 Goals 2nd Salah 23 Goals 3rd Werner 22 goals

2020 1st Felix 26 goals 2nd Lautaro Martinez 21 goals 3rd CR7 20 goals

2021 1st Morata 25 goals 2nd Mbappe 23 goals 3rd Mousa Dembele 22 goals

2022 1st Rafael Leo 22 goals 2nd Mbappe 20 goals 3rd Morata 20 goals

2023 1st Kane 28 goals 2nd Mbappe 25 goals 3rd Morata 25 goals

2024 1st Huerta 24 Goals 2nd Lincoln 24 goals 3rd Kane 24 goals

I mean you can clearly see a pattern here . 

Most Top scorers in the game are decent Headers apart from Mbappe who is still with PSG and they are thrashing everybody

Morata has finishing 13 and Heading 18 but he is tall. Kane has excellent finishing but he is also very tall

Rafael Leio is tall as well with decent heading

Dembele tall aswell good header

CR7 tall and great header

 

This is results for European Golden Shoe..

As you can easily see the problem is enormous... Nobody can score goals . Messi does not have above 15 goals. Mane eclipsed 14 goals once. salah scored 23 goals and hasnt gotten more then 15 since then. MBappe scores 20 goals in 40 games in france..

You need tall strikers so they can score half the goals with headers or you are busted. Its very hard I mean.. You cant recruit players for your team now cuz u have to change them in patch. The "meta " right now is to take two footed tall players so they can give u 5/6 headers 4/5 penalties and maybe they will score 10 goals with their feet if you dominate like crazy.. If they fix it you have to butcher your tyeam of those. Messi best season was 19 goals . He finished with 12/13/13/14/15/. (his 19th is his last at 36) . Also he takes free kicks ansd peanlties ... He has like 6/7 goals from open plays

 

So its not about tactic problems. Its just nobody can score goals especially "small gifted players"

Lets look at some other players in my save

Hazard his first 3 years he finished with 9 8 6 goals in 35 games+ 

Werner Real Madrid striker  16 15 9 15

Rashofrd AML/ST Chelsea 5 5 13 8

Haaland 150million valuation he is 1/6/2/9 as AML for United

Lautoro Martinez 150 milion United striker 16 14 9 6(14 games played)

Depay Stiker for Juve now 13 11 10 10 

Lukaku still in inter main man 18/13/11/10/12 

Almost nobody has more then 15 goals and all of them have poor grades because of their misses. 

 

So I must say that the problem is veryy big. its not your tactics  its happening to the AI. In every league there is maximum one player with 20 goals or more and in some there is none. A golden booth was won with 22 goals.. Third place had 19 or what something like this

 

The Huerte case when he won Golden booth. The next season (This one he is 24 games 10 goals. My team is better we are playing better football making more chances but his RNG is awful and he keeps missing them. I put it just to blind luck he scored 25 goals . Problem is now when I see him sturggling i keep thinking its my fault and

i try to fix it somehow but there is no solution. 

My top scorer with 26 goals in 30 games is a 5'6" tall winger... Who barely ever scored with headers. 

[Toshevbgg]

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

My top scorer with 26 goals in 30 games is a 5'6" tall winger... Who barely ever scored with headers. 

my reply is not showing

I dug some info from my save right now 6 years into the game

In Seria A after 28 games there are only 5 players above 10 goals

In EPl after 28 games there are only 6 players above 10 goals

In EPL 27 games 7 players above 10 goals

 

For example right now in EPL

There are 10 players above 10 goals in 20 games

In Seria A right now after 17 games there are 5 players above 10 goals 

 

I think this needs tweaking. Because strikers are innefecitve infront the goal and the biggest providers of assists the wingers prefer to shoot we are seeing very low goals/assists

 

Another example my MR has Shoot Less/Cross MOre/Pass shorter /Run right side on the pitch and he has finishing 10

So far he has taken 84 shots in 20 games and scored 6 goals.  This is absurd ammouth of shooting almost 4 times per game when he has instructions not to do this. Because of his awful finishing and on top of all bad conversion of chances it takes him 14 shots to score a goal.. This is extremely frustrating to watch. I mean everytime i see him going on highlights I am dissapointed cuz i know what shpapenning

[Svenc]

4 hours ago, Miravlix said:

 

I don't get why you talk about ME and then link to a video of 3D gameplay. The ME has nothing to do with how good or bad 3D looks.

The ME isn't responsible for how green the grass looks in 3d, or how Fifa-lifelike the motion-captured 3d player animations are. It's still responsible for the second by second match simulation shown, e.g. players in the clip not closing down, forwards making off the ball runs, opposition never taking the ample opportunity for easy balls over the top. This was vintage FM12.

The way you describe this is exactly the opposite how it works. The engine doesn't decide beforehand there's going to be a goal/corner and drums up the most arbitrary sequence of play that makes it happen. There's second by second play beforehand leading to that corner, simulated kick by kick. The keeper regularly walking over the line would have been a bug that needed to be fixed. Once it were fixed, there would be no corner.

This is similar to the long ball situation currently. SI can't say "Fewer Long balls, please" and progress. It is only once the visible defender reaction is improved they will be defended more regularly. More important to know if you'd ever report bugs, but equally important when making match decisions in-game. If everything was arbitrary, there'd be no point at all in watching/analysing, and the ME would be a massively failure as a tactical simulation.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Svenc

[Maldini's Heir]

On 04/01/2020 at 04:59, victorpetroll said:

My impressions:

I played 90 hours until. Most of the time only served to make me angry and frustrated.

I left my best experience in all FM's (Girona in FM 19) to have a terrible experience.

The gameplay is horrible. Two months after launch, Match Engine continues to have the same problems as it did at the beginning and no one can predict improvements. Things in the game are always repetitive and everything seems to depend on your luck (which always fails). Penalty shoot-out is unsuccessful; long balls pursue their defense regardless of the quality of the players and their tactics; Your attacker can have great attributes (17+) and yet will lose dozens of clear chances before scoring; the game seems to laugh at your tactical changes and keeps punishing you no matter what you change.

If I had known this would be so bad I would have continued on FM 19 and would consider buying the game only in March. After all, it seems that this is what we who bought the game at the launch deserve: suffering and anger.

Sorry for my bad english.

I've arrived at the same place and I'm out. I can't do this anymore. Back to FM19. Which in fairness means I get to keep Cutrone at Milan!

[kiwityke1983]

2 hours ago, Toshevbgg said:

my reply is not showing

I dug some info from my save right now 6 years into the game

In Seria A after 28 games there are only 5 players above 10 goals

In EPl after 28 games there are only 6 players above 10 goals

In EPL 27 games 7 players above 10 goals

 

For example right now in EPL

There are 10 players above 10 goals in 20 games

In Seria A right now after 17 games there are 5 players above 10 goals 

 

I think this needs tweaking. Because strikers are innefecitve infront the goal and the biggest providers of assists the wingers prefer to shoot we are seeing very low goals/assists

 

Another example my MR has Shoot Less/Cross MOre/Pass shorter /Run right side on the pitch and he has finishing 10

So far he has taken 84 shots in 20 games and scored 6 goals.  This is absurd ammouth of shooting almost 4 times per game when he has instructions not to do this. Because of his awful finishing and on top of all bad conversion of chances it takes him 14 shots to score a goal.. This is extremely frustrating to watch. I mean everytime i see him going on highlights I am dissapointed cuz i know what shpapenning

My striker is second top scorer with 23 in 26 games. He'd be top scorer had he not spent a month injured. 

The issue with AI strikers not scoring I'm pretty sure is down to the fact that the AI is laughably Conservative. Happy to just get beat 1-0 rather than even attempt to win half the time. 

[kiwityke1983]

I should add too my winger is top scorer not because of some failure of the ME but by tactical design. 

He has certain PPMs and my Targetman is on support. So he drops deep and creates space for the winger to run into. 

My shadow striker has 11 in 20 mainly from cut backs from that winger. 

The ME has issues this is undeniable. BUT I think the issues around strikers and scoring goals are tactical. The AI is too cautious and the human play is to gừng họ. 

[autohoratio]

I've just posted a few bug reports for these incidents, the match engine can be baffling sometimes

https://streamable.com/wkjei - Centre-backs are returning from a free kick up the pitch and full-backs are covering for CBs. But then when the opposition GK kicks the ball upfield, FBs decide to run away from the opposition striker and the CBs don't retake their proper positions.

https://streamable.com/ogvjc and https://streamable.com/mlmqd - defending player gets to a loose ball from a corner, and then decides to dribble directly into the corner taker. Somehow, he doesn't lose the ball.

https://streamable.com/qzkhx - A defender very casually receives a clearance from the opposition GK, but lets it roll in front of his feet instead of controlling it. Opponent midfielder comes to press, but ends up just standing in front of the defender instead of intercepting the ball. The defender is unfazed, and he seemingly doesn't realise the midfielder is right in front of him.

[janrzm]

9 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I should add too my winger is top scorer not because of some failure of the ME but by tactical design. 

He has certain PPMs and my Targetman is on support. So he drops deep and creates space for the winger to run into. 

My shadow striker has 11 in 20 mainly from cut backs from that winger. 

The ME has issues this is undeniable. BUT I think the issues around strikers and scoring goals are tactical. The AI is too cautious and the human play is to gừng họ. 

I'm scoring freely, looking around the leagues in my save the Ai strikers are perhaps looking a bit light on goals, most likely for the reason you state.

I actually settled on a tactic from my FM19 Liverpool save once I'd acquired good enough players. 

Currently my forwards are looking like this - 

Inside Forward - Support - 26 goals and 4 assists in 29 games. (2 are pens)

False 9 - 17 goals and 2 assists in 26 games. (2 are pens)

Inside Forward - Attack - 5 goals and 12 assists in 25 games. 

The midfield trio have 15 assists between them and the Fullback on Attack that sits behind my top scorer has 7 assists.

I'm happy with the distribution of goals and assists and I'm certainly scoring a variance of goals. If anything I feel I'm scoring too freely at times.

 

[Maldini's Heir]

22 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I should add too my winger is top scorer not because of some failure of the ME but by tactical design. 

He has certain PPMs and my Targetman is on support. So he drops deep and creates space for the winger to run into. 

My shadow striker has 11 in 20 mainly from cut backs from that winger. 

The ME has issues this is undeniable. BUT I think the issues around strikers and scoring goals are tactical. The AI is too cautious and the human play is to gừng họ. 

But if the issue was tactical, then my team wouldn’t be creating chances. My team is creating chances but my players keep missing them all.

I’ve got Piatek and Cavani as strikers. My team is handing them chance after chance and they just keep missing. So how do I fix that tactically?

[janrzm]

2 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

But if the issue was tactical, then my team wouldn’t be creating chances. My team is creating chances but my players keep missing them all.

I’ve got Piatek and Cavani as strikers. My team is handing them chance after chance and they just keep missing. So how do I fix that tactically?

Isn't that a classic "FM Tell" for an unbalanced tactic though, I had a similar Newcastle save in a previous version that drove me mad for the same reason until I figured it out. Maybe its a combination of both and its exaggerating the situation?

Edited January 5, 2020 by janrzm

[Maldini's Heir]

Just now, janrzm said:

Isn't that a classic "FM Tell" for an unbalanced tactic though, I had a similar Newcastle save in a previous version that drove me mad for the same reason until I figured it out. Maybe its a combination of both.

That’s not a “tell”. A “tell” would be not creating chances. I’m creating chances. Good one’s. Simple 1v1. Open goals. Endless chances and missing every single one.

And when I re-play a match, the “problem” often goes away. 
 

I’ll play a game, miss 20 or 30 chances and the game will finish 0:0 or 0:1 and then in frustration I’ll quit and replay with the exact same team, tactics and team talk and win 4:0 with fewer chances. 

[kiwityke1983]

55 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

But if the issue was tactical, then my team wouldn’t be creating chances. My team is creating chances but my players keep missing them all.

I’ve got Piatek and Cavani as strikers. My team is handing them chance after chance and they just keep missing. So how do I fix that tactically?

I've posted before that the effect of packed defences seems to nerf the effect of clear cut chances even if a defender is anywhere near the striker. In a prior save I manually went through and watched every CCC to see which resulted in goals. It was about 57% against top 6 teams and 11% against bottom 6 sides. 

I suspect you are creating lots of chances that registered as CCC's but the game internally also registers as your player being under pressure as they aren't in enough "space" and therefore they miss. 

It's interesting both me and janrzm are playing what are effectively support strikers who drop-deep with runners from deeper and are scoring freely. 

For the longest time I was really close to quiting FM20 out of frustration as I was having exactly the same issues you are. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by kiwityke1983

[rp1966]

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I've posted before that the effect of packed defences seems to nerf the effect of clear cut chances even if a defender is anywhere near the striker. In a prior save I manually went through and watched every CCC to see which resulted in goals. It was about 57% against top 6 teams and 11% against bottom 6 sides. 

I suspect you are creating lots of chances that registered as CCC's but the game internally also registers as your player being under pressure as they aren't in enough "space" and therefore they miss. 

It's interesting both me and janrzm are playing what are effectively support strikers who drop-deep with runners from deeper and are scoring freely. 

 

I think that's a very telling point.  It's noticeable that final third play, particularly by top-level highly-technical players is not as effective as it should be.  If the players are over-sensitive to defenders around them - as they certainly seem to be - then at top levels this is going to have a profound effect.  One of the major skills of a top level technical player is their ability to receive, control and make good use of a ball received in a tight space. It not only allows them to fashion more chances, but allows the team to play passes to players in areas that would not be possible at lower levels.

Being over-sensitive to defender pressure negates the skills that make top technical players so effective.

 

[Maldini's Heir]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I've posted before that the effect of packed defences seems to nerf the effect of clear cut chances even if a defender is anywhere near the striker. In a prior save I manually went through and watched every CCC to see which resulted in goals. It was about 57% against top 6 teams and 11% against bottom 6 sides. 

I suspect you are creating lots of chances that registered as CCC's but the game internally also registers as your player being under pressure as they aren't in enough "space" and therefore they miss. 

It's interesting both me and janrzm are playing what are effectively support strikers who drop-deep with runners from deeper and are scoring freely. 

For the longest time I was really close to quiting FM20 out of frustration as I was having exactly the same issues you are. 

So the issue is graphics?

It looks like the player’s in tons of space but apparently are not?

I still find it odd given there are instances of missed 1v1s in space, hitting the post, goal mouth scrambles etc

Plus a re-start almost always produces a different result where my players remember how to score again.

It’s hardly satisfactory....

[Mitja]

3 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

The issue with AI strikers not scoring I'm pretty sure is down to the fact that the AI is laughably Conservative. Happy to just get beat 1-0 rather than even attempt to win half the time. 

That can be improved by editing Sitting Back and Attacking managers's attribute. Especially Sitting Back is responsible for not attempting to win. 

Another thing I noticed AI playing their best players (like Salah and Messi) on support instead of attack duty. 

[Maldini's Heir]

For the second time in just 3 seasons my keeper, Donnarumma, has been tackled. I’ve not got close to the AI’s goalkeeper in three seasons.

In the same game I’ve had a go disallowed (a volley into the top corner from the edge of the box for which apparently my striker was interfering with play).

The game ended 0:1 to the computer. Re-start. Win 1:0 with the exact same tactics, team and team talk. I guess I was unlucky. Again. 

[TTarps]

2 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

It's interesting both me and janrzm are playing what are effectively support strikers who drop-deep with runners from deeper and are scoring freely. 

So the only people who are scoring freely are the people who are exploiting the match engine? Its a known issue that defenders cannot handle runs from deep. This isn't tactical brilliance its just exploiting a known problem. 

[KlaaZ]

1 minute ago, TTarps said:

So the only people who are scoring freely are the people who are exploiting the match engine? Its a known issue that defenders cannot handle runs from deep. This isn't tactical brilliance its just exploiting a known problem. 

Yes and no, because it's also a general tactical way of getting people into goalscoring positions. Having a striker drop deep to drag a central defender out of position so that you create space for other players to move into. 

[Maldini's Heir]

Drew 0:0 with Parma after missing countless chances. My fourth game in a row with without scoring. Re-started. Same team, tactics and team talk. 5:2. Now putting the win aside, 5:2 is a lot more fun than 0:0. If only some of those goals had gone in in the first game. If only some of those goals had gone in in any of the four previous games.

[TTarps]

7 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Yes and no, because it's also a general tactical way of getting people into goalscoring positions. Having a striker drop deep to drag a central defender out of position so that you create space for other players to move into. 

I'd be agreeing with you 100% if it wasn't clearly broken. Defenders don't react to deep runs at all.

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, Maldini's Heir said:

So the issue is graphics?

It looks like the player’s in tons of space but apparently are not?

 

Topic aside, players oft tend to have a very interesting definition of "Yards of space"...

Pretty sure Rashidi has already (in his mind at least) updated his SIBOT for FM20 and could tell you plenty where you're going personally wrong. Four Matches on the bounce isn't purely bad luck anymore, not in-game, either way.  

Edited January 5, 2020 by Svenc

[kiwityke1983]

29 minutes ago, TTarps said:

So the only people who are scoring freely are the people who are exploiting the match engine? Its a known issue that defenders cannot handle runs from deep. This isn't tactical brilliance its just exploiting a known problem. 

Never said it was tactical brilliance and any way of scoring is essentially an exploit of the match engine. 

 

[Maldini's Heir]

20 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Topic aside, players oft tend to have a very interesting definition of "Yards of space"...

Pretty sure Rashidi has already (in his mind at least) updated his SIBOT for FM20 and could tell you plenty where you're going personally wrong. Four Matches on the bounce isn't purely bad luck anymore, not in-game, either way.  

So what changed when I re-started?

Same tactics.

And just to wind me up I was asked about all the bad luck I was having in the tunnel.....

Edited January 5, 2020 by Maldini's Heir