Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[LucasBR]

9 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I already shared the same with Almeria in first season. There are was bug of La Liga even in second division. But yeah I will upload this file too 

the most funny thing - my tactic is simple and I have no idea WHY it so good 

I think this is the simplest tactic I've ever seen in my life

[Novem9]

5 минут назад, LucasBR сказал:

I think this is the simplest tactic I've ever seen in my life

Simple doesn't break  

[ferrarinseb]

Doesn't the Foul count seem Extreme as most of the Fouls are on their half.  What could be the record for the no.of Fouls in a match. Burnley Played a 4-4-1-1 (2 DM) 

 

[Iwabik]

One thing I'm really impressed by is how much smoother this game is than older versions. Turned on FM 17 and it's just so much slower, good job on that!

[Miravlix]

The Danish national team has hired a new manager and it was finalized months ago, but for some reason the in game simulation doesn't know about the new hire, so it keeps the old one in the job.

 

I think it's been known for half a year now that the current manager was not getting his contract renewed and the new one was hired to replace him at the end of the contract. Does the game not support civilized manager replacement, that doesn't involve outright firing the old one?

[Joshuasoul72]

Negative feedback on FM 20

Unfortunately I cannot speak positively about FM 20 at the moment.  The negative feedback from myself is all directed towards the inability of myself and many other users to be able to play the game properly seemingly due to the particular hardware that we have.  All the feedback in reference to this is that the graphical representation of the graphics engine stutters and lags on Desktops that are 5 star rated and easily play all other games that are available on very high levels.

I purchased the game just before Christmas and I am bitterly disappointed that I have only been able to play 3 pre-season games properly and then had to give it up due to the game being unplayable.  That’s 3 matches in about two weeks.  At the moment for a large number of customers the game as it stands is not fit for purpose for those particular users. 

We appreciate that there can be issues, however we are increasingly getting concerned about the lack of acknowledgment and provision of an explanation for this issue.

I want to play the game, I have been playing every version of FM since it began up until 2017 and this year I decided to purchase the new version.

The game itself, outside of the 3d match is immense and I was loving how it had been improved since 2017 however only being able to watch 3 matches before calling it a day is not acceptable and I hope that this constructive feedback reaches someone who is able to offer a solution or explanation in order that myself and others can get back to doing what we purchased the game for, playing it and enjoying it.

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, Joshuasoul72 said:

Negative feedback on FM 20

Unfortunately I cannot speak positively about FM 20 at the moment.  The negative feedback from myself is all directed towards the inability of myself and many other users to be able to play the game properly seemingly due to the particular hardware that we have.  All the feedback in reference to this is that the graphical representation of the graphics engine stutters and lags on Desktops that are 5 star rated and easily play all other games that are available on very high levels.

I purchased the game just before Christmas and I am bitterly disappointed that I have only been able to play 3 pre-season games properly and then had to give it up due to the game being unplayable.  That’s 3 matches in about two weeks.  At the moment for a large number of customers the game as it stands is not fit for purpose for those particular users. 

We appreciate that there can be issues, however we are increasingly getting concerned about the lack of acknowledgment and provision of an explanation for this issue.

I want to play the game, I have been playing every version of FM since it began up until 2017 and this year I decided to purchase the new version.

The game itself, outside of the 3d match is immense and I was loving how it had been improved since 2017 however only being able to watch 3 matches before calling it a day is not acceptable and I hope that this constructive feedback reaches someone who is able to offer a solution or explanation in order that myself and others can get back to doing what we purchased the game for, playing it and enjoying it.

There's a response stickied at the top of this thread.. you create a bugs thread as the issue is far from uniform in terms of lag and even on the same hardware (is different users on Nvidia hardware having differing levels of performance)

[Joshuasoul72]

11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

There's a response stickied at the top of this thread.. you create a bugs thread as the issue is far from uniform in terms of lag and even on the same hardware (is different users on Nvidia hardware having differing levels of performance)

Thanks for the reply.

I had already posted my issue on the 24th December in the 2020 bugs reporting forum under the heading "match engine Lag" complaint.

Since then there have been about 20 posts referencing a similar issue and what is glaringly obvious is that this particular post has over 24,000 views.  With that many views I would assume that there is a great deal of interest in the topic from concerned customers who are currently unable to play the game because of the issues with the 3d graphics.

I love the game, I always have and I never complain, but this is really frustrating and of course coming at a time like this during the holiday season does not help anyone.  We just need some clarification that our issues are being acknowledged and that they are being looked into.  I know its the first day back since xmas but no-one has replied to any of the 20 posts including my own in the forum and that's increasing everyones frustration as we really like the game, but just want to play it.

[bleventozturk]

Any feedback on AI's player development? Does AI retrain players for new positions on a regular basis?

[themadsheep2001]

14 minutes ago, Joshuasoul72 said:

Thanks for the reply.

I had already posted my issue on the 24th December in the 2020 bugs reporting forum under the heading "match engine Lag" complaint.

Since then there have been about 20 posts referencing a similar issue and what is glaringly obvious is that this particular post has over 24,000 views.  With that many views I would assume that there is a great deal of interest in the topic from concerned customers who are currently unable to play the game because of the issues with the 3d graphics.

I love the game, I always have and I never complain, but this is really frustrating and of course coming at a time like this during the holiday season does not help anyone.  We just need some clarification that our issues are being acknowledged and that they are being looked into.  I know its the first day back since xmas but no-one has replied to any of the 20 posts including my own in the forum and that's increasing everyones frustration as we really like the game, but just want to play it.

Can you link your post and I'll flag it again so someone takes a look. They may well have seen it but at least you will know. 

[Joshuasoul72]

9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Can you link your post and I'll flag it again so someone takes a lot. They may well have seen it but at least you will know. 

thanks again for the reply, I think i have linked it above as you requested.  This is the first post I placed there were several others afterwards from myself in the same section together with others from other users who are experiencing difficulty and have given up playing the game for now.

[Neil Brock]

43 minutes ago, Joshuasoul72 said:

thanks again for the reply, I think i have linked it above as you requested.  This is the first post I placed there were several others afterwards from myself in the same section together with others from other users who are experiencing difficulty and have given up playing the game for now.

Yeah can confirm we're absolutely looking into how the match engine runs for some users with regards to performance and lag - as you can imagine with PC gaming there's a huge amount of different configurations and setups. 

We don't believe everyone is seeing exactly the same issue nor from the same cause, which is why it's best people are extremely clear about their symptoms. The more information we have the more we can investigate. 

Thanks. 

[Svenc]

8 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Seriously dude, go and do something else, this game is really NOT for you. 

Bit harsh, but probably true.

This is nothing personal, but I don't think any ME patch will solve this.

A different studio coding a highly determinstic game may.  Paradox Interactive had hinted at that at some point they may make a management game (tried to aquire SI, but it was too late). But then that will be quite some detached from football. Press x for goal/event isn't football (even on Fifa / PES there are random elements on occasion overriding the run of play, apparently to the dismay of many). Plus football management is a highly frustrating job due to footballs inherent  nature, and the pressure put on managers. Given the perennial overachievements, there's got to be at least some of it in there.
 

4 hours ago, ferrarinseb said:

Doesn't the Foul count seem Extreme as most of the Fouls are on their half.  What could be the record for the no.of Fouls in a match. Burnley Played a 4-4-1-1 (2 DM) 

 

That would be more Burnley'sque if they had recorded a record of shots blocked, rather than fouls (and won the match 1-0). This may actually be a good example to report and investigate to how the (too many?) set pieces on FM come about (and the shots off them). In this case, the inevitable free kicks after the fouls...

Edited December 30, 2019 by Svenc

[ExeChris]

Bought the game for Christmas after playing the demo for a month and it is NOT the same game.  I'm playing Danish 2nd division as opposed to English League 2 so I'm expecting the quality to be a bit worse but Oh my Christ are my team hopeless.  
I don't see that many through balls compared to what some people are reporting but it's usually 2 or 3 each team per game and they never get scored.  The goals I mostly seem to see are scrambles following corners/free kicks, penalties, and snap shots from the edge of the box.
I've lost count of the times players head the ball 10 yards over the bar from the edge of the 6 yard box; it's ridiculous.
Again I know my players aren't the best but I really want to be seeing my players do something and think, "cool, I told them to do that and it worked!".  This just seems like I set the players up in different parts of the pitch and they just go off and do what they want.
Why do players chase the ball to the touchline, stop it right on the line but over run it so an opponent can just go off with it?!  I had it earlier when one of my defenders chased the ball back to the byline at the edge of the 6 yard box and kept it in for the striker behind him; luckily he was so bad he just kicked it against the post.
Also I have given up watching on the second most detailed behind full game highlights (I forget the name) because 25% of the 'highlights' are just someone driving the ball forward to a clearly offside player, or, worst of all, a player takes a throw in and gets it back to be caught offside.  That is not a highlight.

It's a shame because it seems good apart from this.  Well apart from the fact my squad called a team meeting to discuss my handling of the team and the poor atmosphere in the dressing room.  Before I'd even played a game!

I keep playing this thinking I'm bound to start enjoying it soon.  I so want to enjoy it but hey-ho, back to work on Thursday and that's not looking so bad now...

[Iwabik]

 

That's one of the most ridiculous ones, CBs don't give a flying crap about my striker or the ball punted god knows where by my GK. They just casually walk the opposite way  Can't wait for the fix.

[waldywaldy]

I'm not sure what to make of this game anymore, it just doesn't seem to make sense at all

 

 

Leeds v Wolves.pkm

Edited December 30, 2019 by waldywaldy
pkm uploaded

[Novem9]

Well my save is ruined for me  No technically, its gameplay unreasoble to continue.

I like club vision and management in FM20. Improved, better, deeper, more realistic. I can't say ME is bad, I guess I like this too, in general.

But what is my problem?

I played simple tactic without any exploits, avoid attacking mentality which I dont like and dont use. 

Real Madrid, Atletico, Valencia lose a lot of points by ME issues. Yes, any team could play low in part of season or full season even. But there are almost all teams can't win ME. Real Madrid lose ~15 points by ME issue, Atletico lose ~25 points. 
I just disable offside trap option and my team stopped to give empty space for opposite and use space for us. My striker score 31 goal in 35 games. Best 4.6mln euro ever. I bought him just because he scored in Zaragoza, but it was second division.

 

In general my team is second by goals after Barca and 5 by defense. For now I have squad for midtable is best chance. The real place is 15-18. In fact we will play in Champions League. We will win later or Universe will find a sence, I lose any interest for this save. I want to improve team season by season, step by step. And I even not tried for extra results, but already SECOND, in first season in La Liga  No reason to continue because no rival. It not depends my tactic (balanced but simple) and no reason about my team (I analyze every player and every transfer but I don't check CA/PA and I have limited club's reputation). I can win or can lose just... just because it happens, just because ME. No any exploits, I repeat it again. I specially play relaxed for long development. 

Really hope for fix balance in 20.3 and that this patch will release in next 8-10 weeks at the worst. I dont say ' this is bad game', but no sence to play for me in this scenario. Sad because I really enjoyed until this issue came.

 

P.S. Happy New Year for all!

 

[stevemc]

I've set my Head of Youth Development (Bernhard Peters) to make offers for young players, just out of interest as I don't normally do it as I look for young players myself; but why is he making a bid for this player, who is absolutely terrible and not Milan standard?

"He could be a player to keep an eye on in the future". My scouts rate him at 24/100.

Is that working as intended?

[bleventozturk]

34 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Well my save is ruined for me  No technically, its gameplay unreasoble to continue.

I like club vision and management in FM20. Improved, better, deeper, more realistic. I can't say ME is bad, I guess I like this too, in general.

But what is my problem?

I played simple tactic without any exploits, avoid attacking mentality which I dont like and dont use. 

Real Madrid, Atletico, Valencia lose a lot of points by ME issues. Yes, any team could play low in part of season or full season even. But there are almost all teams can't win ME. Real Madrid lose ~15 points by ME issue, Atletico lose ~25 points. 
I just disable offside trap option and my team stopped to give empty space for opposite and use space for us. My striker score 31 goal in 35 games. Best 4.6mln euro ever. I bought him just because he scored in Zaragoza, but it was second division.

 

In general my team is second by goals after Barca and 5 by defense. For now I have squad for midtable is best chance. The real place is 15-18. In fact we will play in Champions League. We will win later or Universe will find a sence, I lose any interest for this save. I want to improve team season by season, step by step. And I even not tried for extra results, but already SECOND, in first season in La Liga  No reason to continue because no rival. It not depends my tactic (balanced but simple) and no reason about my team (I analyze every player and every transfer but I don't check CA/PA and I have limited club's reputation). I can win or can lose just... just because it happens, just because ME. No any exploits, I repeat it again. I specially play relaxed for long development. 

Really hope for fix balance in 20.3 and that this patch will release in next 8-10 weeks at the worst. I dont say ' this is bad game', but no sence to play for me in this scenario. Sad because I really enjoyed until this issue came.

 

P.S. Happy New Year for all!

 

I agree that overachieving this much in your very first season can kill the entire fun. As far as I can see it is not always the case for everyone out there though (just watch some youtube videos to see some people finishing closer to mid table with much stronger teams). Maybe your simple tactic does overachieve with this ME, but also maybe your team just got so high in form and morale that they kept it up all the way till the end of the season, which happens sometimes in real life too. Most likely it is a combination of them. Maybe play one more season and see if you will overachieve again?

[saihtam]

4 hours ago, Svenc said:

Bit harsh, but probably true.

This is nothing personal, but I don't think any ME patch will solve this.

A different studio coding a highly determinstic game may.  Paradox Interactive had hinted at that at some point they may make a management game (tried to aquire SI, but it was too late). But then that will be quite some detached from football. Press x for goal/event isn't football (even on Fifa / PES there are random elements on occasion overriding the run of play, apparently to the dismay of many). Plus football management is a highly frustrating job due to footballs inherent  nature, and the pressure put on managers. Given the perennial overachievements, there's got to be at least some of it in there.
 

Uhh paradox making football management game could be fun. They have ton experience in running simulation on all other topics than sport. I would say the market is big enough to have small dig in and see, might be risky thing but could be amazing if done correctly. Only problem that I could see for newcomer is league licenses for base game.  But for start the community is always helpful, but here lies problem that paradox lets modify some degree his own game engine, but this could be shut down into some degree, uhh on other side those custom stadium etc. 

[janrzm]

Some disappointing reactions on here.

If you say you love the game and there's nothing bothering you I accept your opinion and respect it. 

If you say you really don't want to play the game as it's full of issue's that are ruining your enjoyment I accept your opinion and respect it.

Too many people on here are dismissive of the views of others, on both sides of the fence. It is not the role of posters on here to try to disprove or dismiss the views of others.

Feedback on the game and channel your energy in to improving it.

[Novem9]

20 минут назад, bleventozturk сказал:

but also maybe your team just got so high in form and morale that they kept it up all the way till the end of the season

Yeah I agree. They run unstoppable, few wonderful comebacks, extra teamwork understanding, etc. I watched games and it feeling in some moments there are no barriers to stop them.
But it about ingame balance too imo. Good morale is important thing, but so much?

And my post not about my team. Even with this extra high morale I could finished lower if Real, Atletico and Valencia play better. But I checked their games and a lot of games they dominate and just ME stopped them. One game was vs my team. I dont remember who exactly was opponent, but my GK which level is second league made 10 saves  not my opinion about saves, ingame saves, which FM counted as saves. When matches like this happens regular for AI, tens in summary for few teams - this is not case about 'the same happen IRL' 

[Svenc]

Another typical Frustration thread match. A 0-0 affair. Everybody would then be on about the forever ill-fated CCCs, and I'm sure some of them were genuine one on ones. But: The 20 Corners, 20 free kicks and 40 throw-ins for the more attacking team alone never raise an eyelid, which is curious.

You have to wonder whether there was much time for football being played left (and consistently finishes in space from open play). Matches on FM too last about 60 minutes plus stoppage time after all -- do the Maths.  

[stevemc]

@Svenc Same...

 

Their goal was a long ball over my centre backs.

Oh, a missed pen in there too.

[bleventozturk]

1 hour ago, Svenc said:

Another typical Frustration thread match. A 0-0 affair. Everybody would then be on about the forever ill-fated CCCs, and I'm sure some of them were genuine one on ones. But: The 20 Corners, 20 free kicks and 40 throw-ins for the more attacking team alone never raise an eyelid, which is curious.

You have to wonder whether there was much time for football being played left (and consistently finishes in space from open play). Matches on FM too last about 60 minutes plus stoppage time after all -- do the Maths.  

Wait, how are there more free kicks for Everton than the number of fouls committed by West Ham? Am I missing something obvious here? I am half drunk at the moment lol..

Edit: Never mind, offsides, duh 

Any idea what is the average throw in per match in real life?

[LokiValfar]

I honestly think some of the changes in FM20 have made it impossible for me to play the kind of save I enjoy playing.

I like to manage my favorite club for 20 years, then move on around the world.  While at my fave club I like to move around nations, getting my in game manager some international trophies, learning new languages etc...

However, right now my manager has the highest reputation in the game, yet has been turned down for every single international job going.  This includes the England job (which actually went to a Portuguese manager) and I've even been turned down by Denmark, who just hired a guy with MINIMAL reputation...  I've even tested a few things, used the editor to make my manager 10000 rep, made him Danish, made sure he could speak Danish and nope, the game goes for the guy with minimal reputation every single time...

The only thing I can think that is stopping my manager getting an International job is the fact I want to stay on at club level too...  Guess the only way to play the game the way I would normally, is use the editor to force myself into the international job that I fancy taking.

[bleventozturk]

3 minutes ago, LokiValfar said:

I honestly think some of the changes in FM20 have made it impossible for me to play the kind of save I enjoy playing.

I like to manage my favorite club for 20 years, then move on around the world.  While at my fave club I like to move around nations, getting my in game manager some international trophies, learning new languages etc...

However, right now my manager has the highest reputation in the game, yet has been turned down for every single international job going.  This includes the England job (which actually went to a Portuguese manager) and I've even been turned down by Denmark, who just hired a guy with MINIMAL reputation...  I've even tested a few things, used the editor to make my manager 10000 rep, made him Danish, made sure he could speak Danish and nope, the game goes for the guy with minimal reputation every single time...

The only thing I can think that is stopping my manager getting an International job is the fact I want to stay on at club level too...  Guess the only way to play the game the way I would normally, is use the editor to force myself into the international job that I fancy taking.

I don't know much about the unlockables, but isn't international coaching one of those unlockables? I believe it is so in FM Touch at least. If you paid for it though that's another story.

[Nick_CB]

Third consecutive match that my team gives the result to 90. The opponent's AI simply becomes a Liverpool at 90

[janrzm]

3 hours ago, stevemc said:

I've set my Head of Youth Development (Bernhard Peters) to make offers for young players, just out of interest as I don't normally do it as I look for young players myself; but why is he making a bid for this player, who is absolutely terrible and not Milan standard?

"He could be a player to keep an eye on in the future". My scouts rate him at 24/100.

Is that working as intended?

I had mine set the same and he made no offers in three seasons, clearly his standards were much higher as nobody met them........

[Svenc]

4 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Any idea what is the average throw in per match in real life?

Around 40-50. Teams Camping in an opposition's half all Season (top dogs) meanwhile average no more than 7-8 corners. Some of this is ME-inherent, this was posted on a site full of silly tactics, even if they generally get results. 

I'd be really interested into a percentage breakdown of -Goals/shots from genuine Play  - Goals/shots from the set piece; both with a super tactic ME/AI buster as well as a balanced "realistic" Football tactic. Whilst the former may be more successful, I suspect the latter still would have a higher percentage of stuff created from its stuff from actually play. (And, as usual, less of the "loads of shots with minimal return" Matches).

 

Good luck on getting sober!  

[Miravlix]

More weird fan reaction to transfers and loans.

 

They don't react to players that is sold if they are in the B team squad. Even if it's 4/5 star CA players, that was first team ready and did have some first team matches.

 

They seem to have weird reactions to some players, my League 3 young GK  is being loaned out and the fan's upset saying "Unhappy with the decision to loan out a player good enough to start regularly." Uhm, start regularly where, my B team is League 2, My A Team is League 1 so he isn't even remotely qualified for any of them. The u19 team has GK that the AI u19 Manager keeps picking over this one, so he just sits with low match sharpness all season and never plays a game.

 

Same issue with Igor Gomes loan he was a decent league 2 player on return, has 0 Sensior team matches, so I've no idea where this 10 backup player was going to regularly play, he wasn't good enough for A or B team and too old for u19 and neither the board nor the fan noticed me selling him for two packs of coffee and a left shoe string to a Brazilian club, because he was in the B squad..

[bleventozturk]

18 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Around 40-50. Teams Camping in an opposition's half all Season (top dogs) meanwhile average no more than 7-8 corners. Some of this is ME-inherent, this was posted on a site full of silly tactics, even if they generally get results. 

I'd be really interested into a percentage breakdown of -Goals/shots from genuine Play  - Goals/shots from the set piece; both with a super tactic ME/AI buster as well as a balanced "realistic" Football tactic. Whilst the former may be more successful, I suspect the latter still would have a higher percentage of stuff created from its stuff from actually play. (And, as usual, less of the "loads of shots with minimal return" Matches).

 

Good luck on getting sober!  

Haha thanks, I'm sober already and about to go to bed.

I just checked my matches, and saw that even in the matches against much weaker teams where I dominate the game and win with 5-6 goals, I average around 10-12 corners. That doesn't seem abnormal, or does it?

So far I tried to use realistic tactics, and did not observe anything crazy, which supports what SI is saying, that the abnormal amount of long balls over the top do not happen in every setup. I have seen some in my matches, but very rarely so far (in majority of my matches there was none really), whereas when I watch some of those youtubers, they seem to produce 5-10 of those in some matches, which does not look realistic of course.

Edit: Just fyi, I play my matches between Positive and Cautious mentalities, depending on the opponent. I kept the defensive line and the line of engagement 1 click above the normal, and pulled it back to normal only when the opponent starts aggressively attacking, and I almost never suffered those long balls over the top so far. If I go up to attacking mentality, I guess I will start seeing those balls from my players, but haven't tried yet. Most FM'ers on youtube play with attacking or very attacking mentality once they have a strong squad, which probably makes the difference. 

 

[Maldini's Heir]

13 hours ago, Svenc said:

Bit harsh, but probably true.

This is nothing personal, but I don't think any ME patch will solve this.

A different studio coding a highly determinstic game may.  Paradox Interactive had hinted at that at some point they may make a management game (tried to aquire SI, but it was too late). But then that will be quite some detached from football. Press x for goal/event isn't football (even on Fifa / PES there are random elements on occasion overriding the run of play, apparently to the dismay of many). Plus football management is a highly frustrating job due to footballs inherent  nature, and the pressure put on managers. Given the perennial overachievements, there's got to be at least some of it in there.
 

That would be more Burnley'sque if they had recorded a record of shots blocked, rather than fouls (and won the match 1-0). This may actually be a good example to report and investigate to how the (too many?) set pieces on FM come about (and the shots off them). In this case, the inevitable free kicks after the fouls...

It’s just the runs of bad luck that get me.

3 or 4 games in a row where I’m hitting the post or the ball is running along the line is just to much for me. 
 

I can’t manage bad luck. I know it happens in real life. But four Gerard slips in a row is enough to make me blow my top.

I’m out of the cup, the champions league and lost my lead in the league due to a run a bad luck. I lost on penalties in the cup, hit the post numerous times against Atletico Madrid, got smashed by Lazio (which I didn’t think was unlucky until the interviewer asked me about all of those missed chances!) and then finally played Fiorentina and missed numerous chances, only to lose 1:0. So I lost it and re-played the Fiorentina game and won 4:0. Exact same tactics and team talk. Just better luck.

I just need a break from the bad luck. It’s too much.

[ExeChris]

Second choice right back always plays poorly when picked.

Left out of squad so I can satisfy the 'must have at least 3 U21 subs' rule.

Gets upset and demands to leave.

No-one wants him, even when I offer him to clubs for free.

Gets upset after the transfer window closes as I didn't sell him.

I offer him the choice of terminating his contract.  He refuses.

He asks to come off the Transfer List so I say ok as he is an influential squad member.

He then gets arsey and asks me why I tried to terminate his contract?  I apologise but he isn't happy and says I haven't heard the end of it...

Cracking.

 

[JB22]

I wonder if real life managers sit there after a game questioning why in their nil nil game they had so many more throw ins than the opposition 

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, JB22 said:

I wonder if real life managers sit there after a game questioning why in their nil nil game they had so many more throw ins than the opposition 

Do you mean the one posted by me? What he may question isn't how many more  throw-ins he had, but the slightly suspicious general-set-piece-to-minutes-played-ratio. Then the next time the match may not end nil nil anymore with loads of additionally low-chance dirty goalmouth scrambles, but with victory -- provided he were to come to the right conclusions.  

 

7 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

I just checked my matches, and saw that even in the matches against much weaker teams where I dominate the game and win with 5-6 goals, I average around 10-12 corners. That doesn't seem abnormal, or does it?

As to FM, that sounds pretty normal. In particular if that much weaker team just sits deep the entire match anyway.  

[saiyaman]

I think I'm starting to understand the mostly kind of invisible disconnect between what the players are seeing and what SI is trying to do.

Most users seem to report stats based on their view of one match or a few matches whereas SI and the ones trying to show the game is close to real life are looking at averages which mirror what happens in real life.

Maybe the problem here is the Match Engine has flaws but eventually evens out to arrive at a realistic average and that's why few users aren't able to see the problems others have? Whereas others are looking more from the point of view of the match or a few matches and are trying to uncover the flaws which are seemingly hidden by......a "law of averages" for the lack of a term?

This is just thinking out loud and I may be wrong.

[rp1966]

1 minute ago, saiyaman said:

I think I'm starting to understand the mostly kind of invisible disconnect between what the players are seeing and what SI is trying to do.

Most users seem to report stats based on their view of one match or a few matches whereas SI and the ones trying to show the game is close to real life are looking at averages which mirror what happens in real life.

Maybe the problem here is the Match Engine has flaws but eventually evens out to arrive at a realistic average and that's why few users aren't able to see the problems others have? Whereas others are looking more from the point of view of the match or a few matches and are trying to uncover the flaws which are seemingly hidden by......a "law of averages" for the lack of a term?

This is just thinking out loud and I may be wrong.

It's the very long running quantitative vs qualitative issue.  The stats bunnies are all focussed on the numbers across the whole of the game - if they're roughly in line with reality, then all is well.  Those with the biggest issues with the ME are on the qualitative side of the fence - it's the way the events in the game play  out not just the results. That's why they get so wound up about lack of creative play and all the goals coming from hoofs or set-pieces. As someone earlier in the thread said it makes for a joyless experience, even if you're winning.

 

[Aksi92]

Guess I need better tactic. Just kidding. This game was exception where I really could not create a chance, had like 36 long shots jesus christ. I just let it go cause I won the first match 3:1. But yeah classic last minute equalizer happend once again.

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, rp1966 said:

It's the very long running quantitative vs qualitative issue. 

 

Speaking of which, from my Long-term experience roughly 9/10 FM'ers are absolutely terrible at the latter ( to be fair, they have bad examples every week on TV). Otherwise they wouldn't drop the ponit so often regardless of release. See currently how the set piece stuff isn't even brought up, or critically looked at its ease and volumes -- even though they pretty much always make up a significant amount of shots (on target) within decent range in matches with loads of shots and little if any goals.

There's even a huge thread in the bug section arguing that it would Show "everything wrong with the ME", upvoted to the hilt. And despite almost all shots within the match attached in range and centrally in the box equally is from the set piece, there is no mention of it anywhere! I've Long since argued there to be better Feedback -- Fixing the 1vs1 isn't going to Change a damn Thing Long-term.
 

 

[bleventozturk]

11 minutes ago, Aksi92 said:

Guess I need better tactic. Just kidding. This game was exception where I really could not create a chance, had like 36 long shots jesus christ. I just let it go cause I won the first match 3:1. But yeah classic last minute equalizer happend once again.

Imo this just should not be happening, no matter what the setup is.  This is football, not basketball. 56 FG attempts in basketball is fine, not here.

[renato.]

5 minutos atrás, Svenc disse:

Speaking of which, from my Long-term experience roughly 9/10 FM'ers are absolutely terrible at the latter ( to be fair, they have bad examples every week on TV). See how the set piece stuff isn't even brought up, or critically looked at. 

Have you raised something about it into the bugs forum? Lost the times when I was leading and my team suffered a silly setpieces goal into the second post. It's awful

[Svenc]

4 minutes ago, renato. said:

Have you raised something about it into the bugs forum? Lost the times when I was leading and my team suffered a silly setpieces goal into the second post. It's awful

Yes, and it's the vice versa. Your experience is a perception bias. Unless your defensive set pice set up were bugged, set pieces simply don't result in a goal that regularly (though in lots of easy to come by SOT mostly saved by the keeper, in parts as they are mostly headers under pressure). That's the main frustration as to the set pieces, has been ever since at least FM15. 

[dannyfc]

That's more  than a shot every 2nd minute lol slightly impressed. 

[bleventozturk]

I was just leading a game at home 1-0 against a stronger opponent. Around 60th minute I saw them switching from cautious to positive, and I could clearly tell the effect of that in the next 10 minutes where they created 2 half chances, so around 70th minute I switched from balanced to cautious. That also immediately worked. Then a highlight started at 89th minute, them with a throw-in close to my corner flag, and I saw that they switched to 4-3-3 very attacking, with 3 strikers. That doesn't leave me a chance to react during that highlight, and they scored  

I enjoyed seeing the obvious effects of the transitions from one setup to another though. That's a positive for the ME.

 

[fournaan]

Hope we'll see a patch fairly soon rather than the usual one in March or whenever. Really in the mood to play fm but even 5 minutes watching the ME takes that all away 

[bleventozturk]

I noticed that the shot count goes crazy in some AI vs. AI matches too when one side is much stronger. Seems like if one side plays with very attacking mentality, they just keep shooting regardless of the quality of the chances that they are creating. I think this is something that SI managed to balance several times in the past, so hopefully they can do it again in the next patch.

[Svenc]

7 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

I noticed that the shot count goes crazy in some AI vs. AI matches too when one side is much stronger. Seems like if one side plays with very attacking mentality, they just keep shooting regardless of the quality of the chances that they are creating. I think this is something that SI managed to balance several times in the past, so hopefully they can do it again in the next patch.

There is likely an element to that. Also with how the much weaker team sets up. But also, as argued, how easy it is to get set pieces and shots off them. I first noticed the set piece stuff kinda when I set up a Team deliberately to not shoot much at all. As in: Everybody stay deep, just pass the ball around. On one release I'd have over 1000 passes per match. Eventually, they'd get fouled in or around the box, or win a throw-in in the oppositon area, from which shots would go off. Still managed to be top of the table with but barely 12 shots average one release (similar to Inter/Juve this term).

That's what's first triggered my interest.  Then I've watched a LOT of pkms throughout the years in which a side having lots of shots, including SOT, dropped the points. FM Matches may see a lot of shots, but I can guarantee you you won't ever see Matches in which 80- 90% of those or more are from genuinelly open Play, which is fairly common place in football. Suggesting that once the 1vs1 are patched, it's the set pieces mainly to "blame" inflating numbers with relatively low-proability chances of scoring. Purely watch the SOT pile up on the spreadsheet post-patch, and you'll end up frustrated still. Unless SI were to tweak set piece conversion ratios also, but if they overtune that, sitting deep will be suicidal. Even all of the bug Reports as to the 1vs1 almost all contain a significant number of shots purely from the set piece, oft being another major factor of how so few goals were scored.
 

[Aksi92]

18 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Imo this just should not be happening, no matter what the setup is.  This is football, not basketball. 56 FG attempts in basketball is fine, not here.

Yeah its ridiculous even though I am playing with shoot on sight ticked on. Right now you can't rely on CCC cause players are missing them like crazy and I am having so much success with shoot on sight.

I mean look at this match. Half time and I have already created 9 CCC. Scored just once from that. Other goal was long shot. So my players missed 8 CCC in one half and I am playing with the best team and strikers in my league. Its actually crazy and frustrating if you are that type of person.

BTW match ended 2:0 with me missing 2 more CCC in second half.

 

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, Aksi92 said:

Yeah its ridiculous even though I am playing with shoot on sight ticked on. Right now you can't rely on CCC 

 

That said, you could and needn't ever "rely" on the CCC, which will continue until SI define them closer to what's actually "calculated".It's a purely semantic debate of what is a CCC and what isn't, Setting the parameters. Therefore (and a good three of these Goals were absolutely "just" back then),... 

It's already been pointed out that the definition is once again to loose on some Parameters (every time a Forward is halfway through it's immediately a CCC), and some of the defending flaws highlight this. Know what you mean to say though, mind! To me the CCC, as a stat, is still the worst kind of feedback the game has, and this too will likely continue even once the 1vs1s are patched.