FM16 - First thoughts on the early disclosures.

[grade]

Are they talking about Messi retiring at 28 in his prime out of nowhere, or do they mean players are less likely to drop down from the very top of the game, and retire at 30+ if they are not offered a contract to stay at that club?

No, that was basically the person behind Football Manager twitter account poor choice of words. What the feature is about, is that if a top player attributes start to declaine rapidly and doesn't have any deals to play in the top league, he is more likely to retire. This is a way to keep realistic and prevent these former top players don't join any lower league clubs. So no more a 40 year old Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo playing for Oxford United.

[KnightedManager]

Yes very disappointed, infact I cant even remember a single feature that appeals to me (or perhaps any core longterm fm players?)

I think AI squad building and realistic transfers was mentioned, and that would be good, but IMO that shouldnt be a feature, just something that is improved as a given.

Same throwaway line we get every year. It's never actually fixed. Said it plenty of times before, I would forego every single aesthetic change (seriously, a 'Manager Appearence Editor' and 'Club Creator that can just be done in the Editor anyway'? What long term players asked for these?) if all the time spent on those things was put into fixing transfers and AI idiocy.

[themadsheep2001]

Same throwaway line we get every year. It's never actually fixed. Said it plenty of times before, I would forego every single aesthetic change (seriously, a 'Manager Appearence Editor' and 'Club Creator that can just be done in the Editor anyway'? What long term players asked for these?) if all the time spent on those things was put into fixing transfers and AI idiocy.

There is no such thing as a fix there. It's not a binary setting of fixed or broken. To think that is to really misunderstand how it works. It's a case of how much you can improve it each time, though it will never match a human player.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Absolutely wrong, we often use our direct line to highlight some of the complaints to the person who most needs to know, e.g. ME things to Paul Collyer (there's no way he has time to pick out everything on here)

Of course as we continually point out, there's complaining and there's constructive complaining

Good, then I can keep complaining on here and have it be noticed and taken on board. Mwahaha.

Thought this was interesting:

Hopefully that is an automatic feature and not a manual one.

I wonder if that will have an impact on the budget though, as the board will now have to factor in wages to insurance. I also wonder if injury prone players are at risk of higher insurance premiums?

[ommerson]

It would be reasonably realistic though if Cristiano Ronaldo would spend his last couple of 'old day' active footballing years back in Portugal at the club he made his first appearences in professional football. Well, maybe Ronaldo is a bad example, but I for instance still hope that Arjen Robben will end his career back at his local (and my) FC Groningen. That is not completely unthinkable, and if not as a player, than as a manager probably.

Depends on the player and the country he hails from I guess, Messi back to 'his old love' in Argentina for one or to final seasons, it could be possible. Messi retiring at Oxford United, out of the question. Although, who would have thought Edgar Davids would be at Barnet FC at the closure of his career. And Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Frank de Boer and such did retire in a minor league (middle east), more so to cash in big time than for the fun of the game, but still..

I agree that it is not likely to happen, but it could, so it should happen occasionally in-game.

[Althaz]

It will be an improved ME, so not the same.

And indeed, an improved match engine is, IMO, one of the best reasons to upgrade my copy of FM every year .

[BoxToBox]

It would be reasonably realistic though if Cristiano Ronaldo would spend his last couple of 'old day' active footballing years back in Portugal at the club he made his first appearences in professional football. Well, maybe Ronaldo is a bad example, but I for instance still hope that Arjen Robben will end his career back at his local (and my) FC Groningen. That is not completely unthinkable, and if not as a player, than as a manager probably.

Depends on the player and the country he hails from I guess, Messi back to 'his old love' in Argentina for one or to final seasons, it could be possible. Messi retiring at Oxford United, out of the question. Although, who would have thought Edgar Davids would be at Barnet FC at the closure of his career. And Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Frank de Boer and such did retire in a minor league (middle east), more so to cash in big time than for the fun of the game, but still..

I agree that it is not likely to happen, but it could, so it should happen occasionally in-game.

Messi has said he wants to finish his playing career at Newell's Old Boys.

[stevemc]

No, that was basically the person behind Football Manager twitter account poor choice of words. What the feature is about, is that if a top player attributes start to declaine rapidly and doesn't have any deals to play in the top league, he is more likely to retire. This is a way to keep realistic and prevent these former top players don't join any lower league clubs. So no more a 40 year old Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo playing for Oxford United.

You'd think these sort of players wouldn't be retiring, but going to the MLS, China, Qatar etc for a final pay day, like seems to be the real life trend currently?

[HUNT3R]

You'd think these sort of players wouldn't be retiring, but going to the MLS, China, Qatar etc for a final pay day, like seems to be the real life trend currently?

And some will go to these leagues. The feature announcement was referring more to players who wouldn't have this opportunity and would have to drop down leagues to play first team football.

[KnightedManager]

Same throwaway line we get every year. It's never actually fixed. Said it plenty of times before, I would forego every single aesthetic change (seriously, a 'Manager Appearence Editor' and 'Club Creator that can just be done in the Editor anyway'? What long term players asked for these?) if all the time spent on those things was put into fixing transfers and AI idiocy.

There is no such thing as a fix there. It's not a binary setting of fixed or broken. To think that is to really misunderstand how it works. It's a case of how much you can improve it each time, though it will never match a human player.

Semantics. When I said 'fixed' I didn't mean that it is a simple on or off switch from broken to working. However, when top clubs are targeting obviously middling players, clubs sell off star players for ridculously low fees, blatently high potential youngsters are compltely neglected or sold, club legends are transfer listed and placed in the reserves, AI clubs hiring the most awful coaches just to fill roles, AI clubs working their way through the same managers in cycles rather than hiring superior unattached managers, and the list could go on, then something IS broken.

It might not be 'fixable' in the very narrow definition you have used, but it could certainly stand to be vastly improved.

[themadsheep2001]

Semantics. When I said 'fixed' I didn't mean that it is a simple on or off switch from broken to working. However, when top clubs are targeting obviously middling players, clubs sell off star players for ridculously low fees, blatently high potential youngsters are compltely neglected or sold, club legends are transfer listed and placed in the reserves, AI clubs hiring the most awful coaches just to fill roles, AI clubs working their way through the same managers in cycles rather than hiring superior unattached managers, and the list could go on, then something IS broken.

It might not be 'fixable' in the very narrow definition you have used, but it could certainly stand to be vastly improved.

Not semantics but accuracy. Of course it can be improved and they try each year, but talking about it in terms of fixed/broken is simply wrong.

[Kuldaniss]

Man reading this thread at work makes me actually want to get back to work, there's so much negativity

Honestly, the one thing that stood out for me was the Tactical Instructions screen which looks really well done. This was my only complaint, that people don't get the proper feedback after selecting different tactical instructions and if you want to know exactly whats going on you need to read a bunch of extremely well done guides from the forum. In FM16 it looks like we will be able to see what pushing higher in control means in contrast to pushing higher in defensive or counter. I just want to give a proper thumbs up for this, well done !

As for the other graphical changes, I always welcome them. I welcomed them last year and the changes were huge. I'm open to change, it's just graphical changes and I'm sure that the thought - process behind the changes it to make it all better; I'll get used to it.

As a final note, the main reason I buy FM every year is mainly for the ME improvements and the new tactical options + player roles. Although so far I have no info on new player roles/duties etc, I'm sure there will be some in the following weeks. I'll be buying the game, not only that but will pre-order in order to get the beta and act as a tester for 2 weeks - I do it for a living for another company, will gladly do it for SI for 2 weeks in the beta. Just like in my full time job, I'll be eagerly looking for bugs and checking things out, because finding them is the first step to patching them.

[Pingdinho]

Semantics. When I said 'fixed' I didn't mean that it is a simple on or off switch from broken to working. However, when top clubs are targeting obviously middling players, clubs sell off star players for ridculously low fees, blatently high potential youngsters are compltely neglected or sold, club legends are transfer listed and placed in the reserves, AI clubs hiring the most awful coaches just to fill roles, AI clubs working their way through the same managers in cycles rather than hiring superior unattached managers, and the list could go on, then something IS broken.

It might not be 'fixable' in the very narrow definition you have used, but it could certainly stand to be vastly improved.

I don't think anyone is arguing against improvement in these things (even if you think it's good already, improved is always better). However, I think this kind of analysis and decision making is relatively easy for a human, but incredibly difficult for a computer. It's all so woolly, context-dependent, complex, so much combining of different information in different formats from different sources – basically all things brains are far better at than cold-logic driven, rigid, and inflexible computers.

To be honest, I'm amazed the game even works at all.

[grade]

And some will go to these leagues. The feature announcement was referring more to players who wouldn't have this opportunity and would have to drop down leagues to play first team football.

Despite the fact I like playing FM with known players, but it is best for them to retire then to rotten on either old reserves or B teams with no playing time.

[Guest]

Good, then I can keep complaining on here and have it be noticed and taken on board. Mwahaha.

Hopefully that is an automatic feature and not a manual one.

I wonder if that will have an impact on the budget though, as the board will now have to factor in wages to insurance. I also wonder if injury prone players are at risk of higher insurance premiums?

The company I have just starting working at will no doubt be involved in broking that type of policy, will be asking around once FM is released to see if SI have got the cost, cover & terms right.

I certainly hope that the cost isn't a linear relationship with the transfer fee/contract value as that wouldn't be a realistic model & that injury history is also factored into the cost of insuring a player against injury.

[johnhughthom]

Top clubs do target obviously middling players, look at Chelsea's end of transfer window dealings, if that happened on FM the player would probably post it in a WTF thread.

Star player do get sold off for seemingly ridiculously low fees, Cantona to Man Utd seemed very low at the time, Pedro to Chelsea seemed a very low fee for a player who has achieved what he has and is probably at his peak.

"Blatantly" high potential youngsters are sold, there are many examples just at Barcelona.

Legends can be treated poorly by their clubs toward the end of their careers, Casillas last few year at Madrid could have gone better from the club's point of view.

The managerial merry go round has been ongoing for years.

In terms of coaches, this is a hard one to evaluate, in real life we really have no way to tell how good coaching staff are apart from qualifications, so it may be seen the most realistic method in game for the AI to simply go for the highest qualified coach.

Other things often mentioned such as squad balance from the AI also have real life examples too, over the past few years Sunderland had a real lack of full backs, and seemed oblivious to the issue.

These things need to happen in game, the issue is the frequency. Eliminating poor decision making from the AI will simply lead to a game with no immersion, and each player will have their own idea of how often these sort of examples of poor decision making should happen. It's almost impossible in my view to create a "realistic" game world where seemingly poor decision making is often prevalent.

[gavo01]

I wonder if the history deleting itself bug could be fixed for this version of FM.

[HUNT3R]

I wonder if the history deleting itself bug could be fixed for this version of FM.

History doesn't delete itself. Most likely either a virus scanner or drive cleaner is, while you have FM open. If you're having an issue, please report it.

[FM1000]

All of the features look rather useless and boring. I mean you could always have made a custom league for your friends or a custom club this is nothing new. The manager avatar looks like it should have been a DLC rather then a new game feature since it adds nothing new to the gameplay.

I think thats the biggest problem of the fanbase with the new version, so far there is not a major feature that changes or improves the core of the game. Why would i pay for basically the same game again? Yes i know there will be some small updates to the ME and transfers and so on but that's what they really are, small updates nothing major.

The only thing i really like is the new tactic UI, finally they added some graphical representation of what shouts do and how much they do (for exp the width bar or the passing length bar). It only took them 8 games to realize that you kind of need some visual representation of your tactics after the sliders were gone.

[Shake Appeal]

Lets see how quickly the moderators get annoyed by my annual "why not 64x?" comment

It's getting less defensible every year. As of August 2015, 86.47% of surveyed Steam users are using a 64-bit operating system.

(While a little over 10% have 2GB or fewer system RAM.)

[forameuss]

It's getting less defensible every year. As of August 2015, 86.47% of surveyed Steam users are using a 64-bit operating system.

(While a little over 10% have 2GB or fewer system RAM.)

Of Steam users. Given that a lot of FM users struggle with basic PC specs, I'd imagine the percentage of 64 bit is a lot smaller. Until it's very close to 100%, I doubt they'll bother running two clients, and will be very, very unlikely to just can 32-bit.

[Shake Appeal]

Of Steam users. Given that a lot of FM users struggle with basic PC specs, I'd imagine the percentage of 64 bit is a lot smaller. Until it's very close to 100%, I doubt they'll bother running two clients, and will be very, very unlikely to just can 32-bit.

Half of all PC users were using a 64-bit operating system five years ago. Anyone who has bought a computer since them very likely has a 64-bit operating system.

[HUNT3R]

Half of all PC users were using a 64-bit operating system five years ago. Anyone who has bought a computer since them very likely has a 64-bit operating system.

None of these stats matter unless it is FM-specific.

[Kenco]

All of the features look rather useless and boring. I mean you could always have made a custom league for your friends or a custom club this is nothing new. The manager avatar looks like it should have been a DLC rather then a new game feature since it adds nothing new to the gameplay.

I think thats the biggest problem of the fanbase with the new version, so far there is not a major feature that changes or improves the core of the game. Why would i pay for basically the same game again? Yes i know there will be some small updates to the ME and transfers and so on but that's what they really are, small updates nothing major.

The only thing i really like is the new tactic UI, finally they added some graphical representation of what shouts do and how much they do (for exp the width bar or the passing length bar). It only took them 8 games to realize that you kind of need some visual representation of your tactics after the sliders were gone.

So what major feature would you like to see added?

[themadsheep2001]

Half of all PC users were using a 64-bit operating system five years ago. Anyone who has bought a computer since them very likely has a 64-bit operating system.

FM players are on the the lower end of the spec, and crucially SI have the numbers. It doesn't matter what others are doing when a large percentage of your fan base is still minimum speccing it. Until that changes, there wont be a major push.

[forameuss]

Half of all PC users were using a 64-bit operating system five years ago. Anyone who has bought a computer since them very likely has a 64-bit operating system.

And 93% of users of the app I used to work on didn't use IE7. But that means 7% did, so we still had to jump through extremely irritating hoops of making a modern app work on a browser that was released 9 years ago.

[Kenco]

50% of all statistics are made up.

[forameuss]

50% of all statistics are made up.

90% of users quoted above lie, 47% of people ken that

[Shake Appeal]

And 93% of users of the app I used to work on didn't use IE7. But that means 7% did, so we still had to jump through extremely irritating hoops of making a modern app work on a browser that was released 9 years ago.

This analogy doesn't work, because SI already have a 32-bit version built; they have the legacy case covered. Now they just need to build a 64-bit version to give the best experience to the majority of their userbase. Clearly they have decided to punt on this for another year, and why would they not when their own fans are arguing against their self-interest?

[forameuss]

This analogy doesn't work, because SI already have a 32-bit version built; they have the legacy case covered. Now they just need to build a 64-bit version to give the best experience to the majority of their userbase. Clearly they have decided to punt on this for another year, and why would they not when their own fans are arguing against their self-interest?

"Just need to build a 64-bit version". Well I guess if it's that simple. Couldn't possibly be that they'd rather not maintain two different clients? Or that such an effort isn't really worth it for the benefits it brings?

But why let that get in the way of a good moan, eh?

[Shake Appeal]

"Just need to build a 64-bit version". Well I guess if it's that simple. Couldn't possibly be that they'd rather not maintain two different clients? Or that such an effort isn't really worth it for the benefits it brings?

But why let that get in the way of a good moan, eh?

It's beyond me that consumers who would benefit from SI doing this work would actively argue in SI's defense on this. They are inevitably going to have to make the switch to supporting both (and eventually doing away with the 32-bit client), and 2015 was as good a year as any. Plenty of popular games maintain two clients, including tiny indie titles like 7 Days to Die that have a fraction of FM's sales.

There will always be a minority of users who are not able to meet spec. It's why we have minimum requirements. It's why they get higher every year. And people using 32-bit operating systems truly, truly are in the minority.

[forameuss]

It's beyond me that consumers who would benefit from SI doing this work would actively argue in SI's defense on this. They are inevitably going to have to make the switch to supporting both (and eventually doing away with the 32-bit client), and 2015 was as good a year as any. Plenty of popular games maintain two clients, including tiny indie titles like 7 Days to Die that have a fraction of FM's sales.

There will always be a minority of users who are not able to meet spec. It's why we have minimum requirements. It's why they get higher every year. And people using 32-bit operating systems truly, truly are in the minority.

I'm neither defending nor criticising SI in this. Probably because I find it really hard to care to be honest. If they're going to do it, then they will. So there's little point in being in either camp, because there's a third camp that knows what they're doing on this, and it isn't me, and it isn't you.

Will they move to 64 bit? Probably.

Have they discussed this before? Almost certainly.

Why haven't they done it already? Why not write a strongly worded letter to them asking them that, maybe you'll even get an answer if you really wail about it like you're doing here.

[Neil Brock]

To make the change for a 64 bit exe would be a lot of work in a huge number of ways. Already if you're running FM on a 64-bit system you have more options than running on 32 - you can run more leagues with more players and the system won't run out of memory.

That's not to say we won't do it, nor that we don't want to do it, it's just a huge undertaking. We're aware it's something people want.

[Shake Appeal]

Thank you, that's a good answer.

[kefalo84]

Disappointing that in 2015 we are still playing with SAME 3D graphics....man that thing looks....i don't even have words for it....come on, cant we get anything more realistic??

[Guest]

Disappointing that in 2015 we are still playing with SAME 3D graphics....man that thing looks....i don't even have words for it....come on, cant we get anything more realistic??

We're not though, compare the FM15 visuals with those from FM09 & you will see a huge improvements plus FM15 was the first year that SI used motion capture animations so I anticipate that the 3D animations can only continue to improve over the coming years.

Out of interest what graphics card do you have on the system you use to play FM?

[RTHerringbone]

And it depends on what you are comparing the graphics against. There's just no point comparing to PES or FIFA because they are games from a different genre (where graphics are more important) and from developers with astronomical animation budgets.

[upthetoon]

let me know when the match engine and the way AI handles itself in the market and manages the club starts becoming realistic.

im in FM15 and AI loves to buy expensive players and then they wont even kick a ball and will be relegated to the reserves. not bothered about the aesthetic so far announced.

[stevemc]

im in FM15 and AI loves to buy expensive players and then they wont even kick a ball and will be relegated to the reserves..

This irks me, sick of seeing that in FM15, Manchester City were the worst for it.

AI squad building needs some work, over time, they seem incapable of building/maintaining a quality team.

[allyc31]

Honestly, i don't care for the new features that have been announced so far. However, if the transfer, ME and AI squad building gets an improvement then fair enough.

I do share the opinion though that they should take it a year about and focus on improving what they have eg ME, transfer, AI squad building yadda yadda yadda) and price that relative to an upgrade or expansion one year and then do this kind of release the following year and charge full price for it.

But SI are a business and they need to make money. So they're not going to do that

[dllu]

And it depends on what you are comparing the graphics against. There's just no point comparing to PES or FIFA because they are games from a different genre (where graphics are more important) and from developers with astronomical animation budgets.

Exactly! In those games the actual matches (and their graphics) are the core of the whole game. In FM, they are one component among many...

[MrPompey]

aha thanks

[MrPompey]

History doesn't delete itself. Most likely either a virus scanner or drive cleaner is, while you have FM open. If you're having an issue, please report it.

Yep, this issue has come up in the past and its been proven its a local virus scanner being run whilst the game is being run. You'll need to do a search to identify which are known to be culprits but I'm sure McAfee was one. What are you using?

[MrPompey]

This irks me, sick of seeing that in FM15, Manchester City were the worst for it.

AI squad building needs some work, over time, they seem incapable of building/maintaining a quality team.

This is a good shout and its been an issue across many versions, especially longer term careers

[Neil Brock]

Honestly, i don't care for the new features that have been announced so far. However, if the transfer, ME and AI squad building gets an improvement then fair enough.

I do share the opinion though that they should take it a year about and focus on improving what they have eg ME, transfer, AI squad building yadda yadda yadda) and price that relative to an upgrade or expansion one year and then do this kind of release the following year and charge full price for it.

But SI are a business and they need to make money. So they're not going to do that

That's something we look at and improve with every single release. We've never released a version where those areas haven't been addressed in one way or another. It's not always obvious when 'under the hood' changes have taken place and the changes will be unlikely to be dramatically different to the naked eye - if they were (especially for AI/Transfer) then you'd probably only be noticing because something has gone wrong.

[Optimistic Dave]

Player insurance - that was in the first CM wasn't it?

Manager on the touchline? Sensible Soccer called, they want their feature back.

Also going back to the first CM - "EXPECTED TO MOVE ABROAD AT THE END OF THE SEASON". The ultimate squad breakup tool (before I hit on the exploit). It is far too easy to keep unhappy players at the moment - just make a promise and vaguely stick to it. Even if you miss it there doesn't seem to be too much of a problem; just make another promise. Players, in extremis, should be causing much more trouble with regards to missing training, refusing to play (head not right), playing terribly, contaminating squad morale etc especially in the last week of the window.

Your chairman should become involved more - at the moment it is like you operate in a vacuum. He or she could perhaps, rather than simply intervening if the offer is too to refuse, offer advice to influence. Suggesting an offer should be accepted could be included and if you go against the advice then there should be an impact on the chairman's view of you. Less patience if you're slipping below targets, or reducing transfer and wage budgets as a sign of reduced confidence in your transfer policy - unless you deliver the goods. Could also extend to other areas - not playing your record signing etc etc.

AI squad building is years behind other aspects of the game and has been for some time. That should be a priority. Seems to buy players on reputation or average rating, which leads to players being bought that will never improve the team etc. Also older players are routinely overpaid for that clog up the squad is another speciality.

[DANNY1000000]

I'm disappointed too, the only thing that jumps out at me is the set-piece creator but the screenshot doesnt suggest its too much more indepth than the current version.

For me:

"Manager on the Touchline" is a non feature.

"Fantasy Draft" doesn't do anything for someone interested in the full game version (as played from CM2).

"Create-A-Club" pretty much already able to do this with the editor.

"Multi Match Highlights" another unimportant feature.

"Prozone Match Analysis" might be handy but I hardly use the analysis thats currently in game.

"Set-Piece Creator" Hopefully makes this version of the game worthwhile for me.

"Expanded Press Interaction" Don't find this exciting at all, prefer to skip these with my ass man.

"Football Manager Touch" Only ever play the full version.

"More Realistic Injuries" A decent feature but isnt this really just part of the new animations?

[Neil Brock]

Realistic injuries isn't just animation driven - the whole system is improved. I don't know how much I can discuss but it's definitely far more than a cosmetic improvement.

[DANNY1000000]

Realistic injuries isn't just animation driven - the whole system is improved. I don't know how much I can discuss but it's definitely far more than a cosmetic improvement.

That's good then, I would like to have seen the option of offering pain killing injections more than once so hopefully that is included.

[Welshace]

Hi Danny, I would be interested to know what features you were hoping were announced?