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The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

Pukey

By Pukey,
in Euro 2020/21 Forum

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craigcwwe

craigcwwe

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

We have big history with Germany in international football. 66 win. Knocked out in 70. Italia 90 and Euro 96. The absolute pasting in 2010.

It's a long history and with only one win (I'm not counting Euro 2000). France on the other hand, I'm not sure we've played them in a competitive game since the 80s

Why would you not count a tournament win against Germany? :confused:

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martinji

martinji

Posted
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1 hour ago, skybluedave said:

Any England Germany game is going to be elevated from an England POV. I still had fond memories of beating them in Berlin in a friendly few years back. One where were were 2-0 down. 

yeah I remember that, Eric Dier header to win it in injury time.  It was in the spring ahead of the Euros 2016 and I was so positive afterwards about that tournament .... :D

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Yuko

Yuko

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

We have big history with Germany in international football. 66 win. Knocked out in 70. Italia 90 and Euro 96. The absolute pasting in 2010.

It's a long history and with only one win (I'm not counting Euro 2000). France on the other hand, I'm not sure we've played them in a competitive game since the 80s

1992, 2004, 2012 Euros vs France. I guess you only refer to knockout games though. 

 

Actually, you just made me realize why England fans rate Germany as the #1 rival. All of England's accomplishments are paired with Germany. World Cup win, then knocked out in the attempt to defend the title, then the best outings (90 and 96) were stopped by the Germans in the semis. 

I guess Portugal could also match this on a sporting level, ahead of France etc, since you rate the 2000s team generation very highly and it was constantly stopped by Portugal (Euro 2000, Euro 2004, World Cup 2006). And then Croatia comes to the mix, with the 2008 knocking off the tournament and the 2018 semi. Maybe a couple of tournaments later we'll have this being a thing. 

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ajw10

ajw10

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, craigcwwe said:

Why would you not count a tournament win against Germany? :confused:

Group stage game in a group where both nations went out. It wasn't a big win

59 minutes ago, Yuko said:

1992, 2004, 2012 Euros vs France. I guess you only refer to knockout games though. 

 

Yeah, I don't count group games.  

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The Amazing Dale Watkins

The Amazing Dale Watkins

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Yuko said:

Who does England National Team consider to be their rivals? 

Because I've seen Germany and France listed, but if you ask those guys, England isn't featuring in their top 3. 

Germans view Italy as their main rivals, with France and the Netherlands following. 

 

Not true. We do consider England rivals, and it's the longest standing of the rivalries, dating back to 1966. It's generational tho. The older Germans think of England and Holland as their biggest rivals, whereas my generation has more beef with Italy because the losses have been all very painful, knocking us out of big tournaments. The rivalry with the French isn't all that pronounced and mainly goes back to a single match where Schumacher famously knocked out Battiston.

The reason it may be a bigger deal in England is probably the same reason we dread the Italians. England got cruelly knocked out by Germany in crucial games in 1990 and 96, when they showed great promise, whereas we haven't suffered an important loss in 55 years. That and of course the dumb war references, which are only ever brought up by English fans and media.

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Wolf_pd

Wolf_pd

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2 hours ago, fxbghdfn said:

It would be a bit weird if you lot went on about the war tbf. Isn't the war a big part of why the Dutch hate you as well? That and 74. 

WTF?

I am Dutch and you're damn wrong.

The English are the only ones constantly banging on about the war with Germany. Grow up. Also, 1974 has been avenged a long time ago.

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skybluedave

skybluedave

Posted
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22 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

WTF?

I am Dutch and you're damn wrong.

The English are the only ones constantly banging on about the war with Germany. Grow up. Also, 1974 has been avenged a long time ago.

Tbf the wiki page on Dutch German heavily references the war. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany–Netherlands_football_rivalry

But it seems maybe that was more a 70s and 80's thing. And rightly less relevent today. 

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Yuko

Yuko

Posted
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8 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

WTF?

I am Dutch and you're damn wrong.

The English are the only ones constantly banging on about the war with Germany. Grow up. Also, 1974 has been avenged a long time ago.

There are far too many articles that suggest that there's a rivalry that was kindled due to the war for some reason. Never came across it with the Dutch people I've worked with. Nor from the Germans. 

 

A lot of people think that football rivalries have been established due to political situations. That may be the case in central Europe or the Balkans, but it's hardly the norm. England kind of suffers in terms of rivalries as it's an island nation and is surrounded by football minnows in the home nations, considering that Scotland is the most successful of them all in terms of World Cup and Euro participations, so perhaps the media tries to understand the rest of the rivalries through other means, just like English media typically suggests that there has been an England(UK) - Germany rivalry in everything, so there had to be one in sports as well. 

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fxbghdfn

fxbghdfn

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

WTF?

I am Dutch and you're damn wrong.

The English are the only ones constantly banging on about the war with Germany. Grow up. Also, 1974 has been avenged a long time ago.

OK. Where's the beef come from then? 

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RinusFM

RinusFM

Posted
Posted

Whenever I see the name: Jack Grealish.. I wished he stayed Irish. He's so good. Took him for a ride in a previous FM in the Irish Team before he went English. Next to Maguire he was awesome.

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VP.

VP.

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, The Amazing Dale Watkins said:

Not true. We do consider England rivals, and it's the longest standing of the rivalries, dating back to 1966. It's generational tho. The older Germans think of England and Holland as their biggest rivals, whereas my generation has more beef with Italy because the losses have been all very painful, knocking us out of big tournaments. The rivalry with the French isn't all that pronounced and mainly goes back to a single match where Schumacher famously knocked out Battiston.

The reason it may be a bigger deal in England is probably the same reason we dread the Italians. England got cruelly knocked out by Germany in crucial games in 1990 and 96, when they showed great promise, whereas we haven't suffered an important loss in 55 years. That and of course the dumb war references, which are only ever brought up by English fans and media.

Due to the part Germany played in both world wars is it really a surprise they don't like to bring it up and I'm not really sure how they could use it as a rivalry towards anyone unless there are still a few Nazis hanging around.

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The Amazing Dale Watkins

The Amazing Dale Watkins

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, VP. said:

Due to the part Germany played in both world wars is it really a surprise they don't like to bring it up and I'm not really sure how they could use it as a rivalry towards anyone unless there are still a few Nazis hanging around.

By that logic there are dozens of countries who would have a legitimate right to still be pissed of at the Germans, but somehow it's only the English tabloids who keep bringing it up.

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Wolf_pd

Wolf_pd

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, skybluedave said:

Tbf the wiki page on Dutch German heavily references the war. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany–Netherlands_football_rivalry

But it seems maybe that was more a 70s and 80's thing. And rightly less relevent today. 

Funny enough there isn't a Dutch version of it.

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Lucas

Lucas

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1 hour ago, decapitated said:

5fIBvXB.png

 

Hendo Phillips and Rice sounds right up Gareth's street. 

Can't see Rashford starting any games giving he's carrying an injury. 

More likely we go three at the back and Foden starting

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Rebs

Rebs

Posted
Posted (edited)

Did anyone listen to Jonathan Wilson on Talksport this afternooon regarding England's tactics?  He was excellent and gave a really good conspiracy theory regarding what they are doing atm.  Not sure I buy it, but it was very interesting.

Edited by Rebs
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Baptista_8

Baptista_8

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Rebs said:

Did anyone listen to Jonathan Wilson on Talksport this afternooon regarding England's tactics?  He was excellent and gave a really good conspiracy theory regarding what they are doing atm.  Not sure I buy it, but it was very interesting.

Could you give a summary of it?

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Rebs

Rebs

Posted
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Just now, Baptista_8 said:

Could you give a summary of it?

Was a comparison of 1966, where Alf Ramsey disguised his formation in qualifying, friendlies, and group games to what he then played in the knockouts.  Wilson said Southgate could be doing the same, as he has played some formations earlier against big teams back in the nations league, but then reverted back to so safer formations in qualifying and the groups.  Basically, he thought Southgate could then revert to 343 for the knockouts and go much more attacking than we've seen compared to the groups and previous.  Well worth a listen if you can, it isn't on listen back as I've just tried to find it to link, was a real interesting concept.

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Astafjevs

Astafjevs

Posted
Posted

Doesn't really have the same effect as 1966 though, given the media coverage now vs. then. Germany aren't going to be shocked if England play a back three. They would have seen the videos, and you'd expect they've got someone over the media coverage of England picking up any reports coming out of training, so they can prepare.

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skybluedave

skybluedave

Posted
Posted

I am crapping it now for tomorrow. You know the 7 stages of grief when somebody dies. I'm sure I go through something similar between England games at major comps

Optimism- Post Czech win, bring it on. We gotta beat the best. Lets go for it. Foden and Grealish going to tear it up

Delusion - Germany aren't that good. They aren't a vintage German side. We are bound to beat somebody top eventually....

Bartering - Look I'd take a scrappy 1-0. That's possible right?

Dread - Christ it's bloody Germany.

PANIC - when the whistle goes tomorrow

Denial/Acceptance to follow I guess. Needs tweaking but I'm sure it exists. 7 Stage of It's Coming Home

 

 

 

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