Kenco Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, pearcey_90 said: Similar as bombing a player from the squad because he’s holding talks days before (or mid tournament) about joining another club. But the player isn't going to quit his country over it, so it's not at all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Are the players going to pick themselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedrik Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Apparently it isn't even allowed to switch from manager so close before the tournament starts (there is a 48h deadline). Spain is risking exclusion with this decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goqs06 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 France 2010 anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypaul Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kenco said: IMO, yes. Spain did the right thing. They have principles and stood by them. As mentioned above, he should have his concentration on the WC but he's too busy sorting out his own career. Good call by the Spanish FA. There's no indication this has been the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Just now, Cedrik said: Apparently it isn't even allowed to switch from manager so close before the tournament starts (there is a 48h deadline). Spain is risking exclusion with this decision. Can't they just not have one, is there regulation for that? I can't see them being excluded. Surely there is a coach or two that have been part of all the tactical discussions etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Crispypaul said: There's no indication this has been the case. The announcement of him as the next Real Madrid manager is a bit of an indicator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypaul Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Just now, Kenco said: The announcement of him as the next Real Madrid manager is a bit of an indicator. No it isn't. I'm sure he's professional enough to ensure Spain are prepared for the World Cup. There's no evidence that Spain are not because he was pursuing the Real Madrid job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Celades will be the coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 The guy has done the dirty on his current employers. From what we know right now, Real didn't ask for permission to speak to him, they then did a deal behind the federation's back and he informed them five minutes before Real broke the news. How can he stay in his job after that? Where's the trust? It's insane how people can defend this behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Crispypaul said: No it isn't. I'm sure he's professional enough to ensure Spain are prepared for the World Cup. There's no evidence that Spain are not because he was pursuing the Real Madrid job. Well, there is no evidence of him being professional either.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypaul Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Celades will be the coach. Confirmed as Hierro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I'm amazed it's happened like this at all. Don't Real Madrid need the Spanish FA's permission to discuss terms with him? Or is that just a UK thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedrik Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, craigcwwe said: The guy has done the dirty on his current employers. From what we know right now, Real didn't ask for permission to speak to him, they then did a deal behind the federation's back and he informed them five minutes before Real broke the news. How can he stay in his job after that? Where's the trust? It's insane how people can defend this behaviour. Trust in what? Real Madrid announced as their new coach after the WC, not per direct. I really don't see any issue with this. If the preparation of the Spanish team was good, and there are not signals it wasn't, there was literally no issue besides the Spanish FA being pissed off about the whole thing and now feel the need to show who's in charge. Only they don't seem to realise that by doing this they are ruining their own chances. If this is considered to be an issue, then all players who are currently involved in transfers or negotiations should also be send home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid1984 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, Kenco said: But the player isn't going to quit his country over it, so it's not at all the same. What if the player was 30+ and was retiring from international football? I don’t see the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc.Foster050 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I think its more that he signed a new contract with Spain less than 2 months ago and didn't tell them he was looking elsewhere. Also Neither he or Real Madrid spoke to the Spanish FA informing them of what was going on. Then after that not even telling them until 5 minutes before the announcement. Has been handled horribly by manager and club and the Spanish FA made a point of it. With regard to Conte/Van Gaal. Both Nations were aware they were taking the job and in Van Gaals case his contract was running out anyway, he hadn't just signed a new contract. I don't think you can say they had no choice but I can 100% see why they felt they needed to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Hierro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFan7 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I certainly don't think they'll win the thing now but some of the reactions are a bit exaggerated. This experienced core of players that have won everything are now going to not qualify at the expense of Morocco or Iran, I mean come on I still think they'll reach the semis and face Germany but as opposed to winning, will likely lose now. I really do fancy Brazil to do it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon_84 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearcey_90 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, Crispypaul said: Confirmed as Hierro Get rid of a guy because you want a United Spain (can’t have a Madrid manager in charge of Catalan players and fans), get a Madrid legend. Sound logic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, pearcey_90 said: Get rid of a guy because you want a United Spain (can’t have a Madrid manager in charge of Catalan players and fans), get a Madrid legend. Sound logic. They didn't want a United Spain in that sense. They wanted it in the sense that they don't have a manager who's been a complete snake and discussing his future when he should be focused on the world cup, months after renewing. Don't see how you think it's not at least arguably a sackable offence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearcey_90 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said: Z They didn't want a United Spain in that sense. They wanted it in the sense that they don't have a manager who's been a complete snake and discussing his future when he should be focused on the world cup, months after renewing. Don't see how you think it's not at least arguably a sackable offence. Well they literally did want that because that’s what has been said. He’s pretty much thrashed out a deal to become Real Madrid manager in matter of hours that clearly didn’t distract the team because no-one knew about it and it’s was business as usual. Not like when Madrid job came up he went straight to press and touted his name for it in a desperate plea and then kept talking about it over the week That said he managed in the last few days and was most likely on the phone to Perez at half time, snake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Have a feeling Spain will struggle. Will likely get through the group without much trouble but after that it's anyone's guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Here he was, leading his country in the WC one minute and sacked before it begins. He's got to be gutted no matter the circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, craigcwwe said: The guy has done the dirty on his current employers. From what we know right now, Real didn't ask for permission to speak to him, they then did a deal behind the federation's back and he informed them five minutes before Real broke the news. How can he stay in his job after that? Where's the trust? It's insane how people can defend this behaviour. What's crazy is that Real went behind the FA's back and the FA will not punish them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragosani Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, Nordan said: Here he was, leading his country in the WC one minute and sacked before it begins. He's got to be gutted no matter the circumstances. Gutted he got found out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Annoyingly, if Spain implode there is less chance of Portugal going out early. I was looking forward to Ronaldo and co. getting dumped out by Morocco after they had already lost to Spain. Maybe a Morocco- Iran 1-2. Spain and Portugal both home after the group stage. “SENT TO IBERIA” would be an enormously clever headline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza D Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Julen Lopetegui walking into the Spanish team hotel this morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Cedrik said: Trust in what? Real Madrid announced as their new coach after the WC, not per direct. I really don't see any issue with this. If the preparation of the Spanish team was good, and there are not signals it wasn't, there was literally no issue besides the Spanish FA being pissed off about the whole thing and now feel the need to show who's in charge. Only they don't seem to realise that by doing this they are ruining their own chances. If this is considered to be an issue, then all players who are currently involved in transfers or negotiations should also be send home. Issue here is same as seeing a girl in a bikini and seeing her in a underwear. Stupid analogy, but it works. Issue here is permission. Real did this without talking to Spanish FA, behind their backs and announced it whenever they seemed fit. This whole thing could've been avoided if Real just approached FA and asked for a permit to talk to Lopetegui. Instead they just talked to the guy, threw bags of cash at FA for his release clause i did whatever the **** they wanted. Correct decision by FA here. Principles should be more important then money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedrik Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: Annoyingly, if Spain implode there is less chance of Portugal going out early. I was looking forward to Ronaldo and co. getting dumped out by Morocco after they had already lost to Spain. Maybe a Morocco- Iran 1-2. Spain and Portugal both home after the group stage. “SENT TO IBERIA” would be an enormously clever headline. Still chances that might happen of course. Although I'm not sure why you would want a team with talented players like Portugal to be eliminated in the group phase. 11 minutes ago, Constantine said: Issue here is same as seeing a girl in a bikini and seeing her in a underwear. Stupid analogy, but it works. Issue here is permission. Real did this without talking to Spanish FA, behind their backs and announced it whenever they seemed fit. This whole thing could've been avoided if Real just approached FA and asked for a permit to talk to Lopetegui. Instead they just talked to the guy, threw bags of cash at FA for his release clause i did whatever the **** they wanted. Correct decision by FA here. Principles should be more important then money. According to this hypothesis Real should be punished, not Lopetegui. Besides that I don't see it as an issue concerning money, more as issue that as the FA you have a certain responsibility towards your country and it's citizens who all want the national team to do well at a major tournament. Sacking the manager one day before the starts will most likely affect the squad of doing well, all kinds of trained routines and tactics are all of a sudden thrown overboard. This has nothing to do with principles, more so (as said) with the Spanish FA being super pissed about Real approaching Lopetegui. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cedrik said: According to this hypothesis Real should be punished, not Lopetegui. Real didn't hold a gun to his head and forced him to sign. He accepted knowing that WC start in two days time. Real might be scumbags but decision after all was Lopetegui's to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedrik Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 And of course he wants to be the manager of Real after the WC, who wouldn't? I think most managers would love to manage a club like that. I also don't see Real als scumbags in this situation as they signed him with a contract that will start after the WC, so the nothing that would affect the coming tournament. They only thing you could argue is that they could have waited with the announcement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Let's say you are dating a girl/guy. Christmas is coming up, things are going well, you've even just bought her/him a lovely present. On Christmas Eve, she/he tells you that she/he is leaving you for another guy/girl (someone you know from work, who has a better car than you) but she/he wants to stay with you and have a great Christmas, before moving in with him/her on New Year's Day. How do you respond? A. Accept her/his decision, enjoy Christmas together and let her/him leave in the New Year as planned B. Dump her/him now, on Christmas Eve, throw her/his stuff out on the street and post on social media about how she/he broke your trust and your heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 That's a terrible analogy. By your logic, every player/coach that announces he's leaving the club before the season ends should be dumped right away. But as I said, Spanish FA made the right decision in this particular case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 If a Liverpool player said he was going to leave at the end of the season and join Man City, Chelsea, etc. then yes, I'd terminate their contract straight away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 A lack of morals in football? Who knew. Poor from Real for not having a common courtesy to talk to the FA. Poor from Lopetegui for not talking to his bosses. Poor to only tell them 5 mins before it's announced. Poor from the FA president to sack someone in a fit of rage (don't make decisions in anger). The real people let down in all of this are the Spanish people sitting at home hoping for/expecting a good World Cup and suddenly they have this to deal with. I don't know the Spanish word for flabbergasted, but that's how I'd be feeling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Real could have waited until the World Cup is behind them. Real and Lopetegui should have been clear to the Spanish FA. Hierro is cool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Google translate says "Asombrado" - I prefer flabbergasted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kenco said: If a Liverpool player said he was going to leave at the end of the season and join Man City, Chelsea, etc. then yes, I'd terminate their contract straight away. But it's not like Lopetegui said he's going to Portugal after WC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 This has been an absolute sh*tshow of a situation. No one has come out of this looking better than they were before. Lopetegui just extended his contract with RFEF a month ago until 2020. It was one thing for Madrid to approach him before the World Cup. It was another thing for Lopetegui to accept the offer when preparing for said World Cup. And it is definitely a scummier thing for Madrid to quickly announce his acquisition. It doesn't help the RFEF wanted to show their power in sacking him now. Timing of all of this is all wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgreenio Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 I'm assuming the Lopetegui contract extension was signed with Spain before Zidane left Madrid? If so then citing that as a reason for him being a shambles is nonsense, you just don't turn down Madrid. The actions by him and Madrid after that though.... Also no idea what the Spanish FA rules on 'tapping up' are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, elgreenio said: I'm assuming the Lopetegui contract extension was signed with Spain before Zidane left Madrid? If so then citing that as a reason for him being a shambles is nonsense, you just don't turn down Madrid. The actions by him and Madrid after that though.... Also no idea what the Spanish FA rules on 'tapping up' are Yeah Lopetegui signed an extension on May 22 Zidane resigned on May 31 Sure, you just don't turn down Madrid. The thing is I don't know if it was Madrid who approached Lopetegui, or he applied for the job when it was available. We might never know as well. If it was the former then yea, a chance to manage Madrid don't come by very often. But it was the latter, then maybe the Spanish FA does have a point on Lopetegui's focus and priorities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bestbrother Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 This may or may not be inside info, but the plan is... Hierro wins the World Cup... Lopetegui is then sacked as Real manager, so Real can appoint Hierro as a 'national hero' on top of his Real legacy. It was decided BEFORE Zidane won his 18th straight European Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, adhikapp said: Sure, you just don't turn down Madrid Massimiliano Allegri confirms he could have joined Real Madrid or Chelsea but “I made the decision to stay at Juventus”. The Bianconeri Coach was reported to have turned down the chance to succeed Zinedine Zidane, and was asked by Sky’s Marco Nosotti if that was the case. “Let’s say I said yes to Juventus,” Allegri replied. “I spoke to the President [Florentino Perez] once, and I said that out of respect for the President [Andrea Agnelli], to whom I’d given my word, and Juventus that I’d be staying at Juventus. “It was a decision I’d already taken, and even if other things can happen in life I’d say that I made the decision to stay at Juventus and respected what I’d said, without considering other options. “I have to thank the Real Madrid President though, for giving me the chance to go there.” As much as despise Juventus, this is class move from Allegri. Integrity and all that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_fenton Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 The way I see it, Lopetegui is an employee. He has decided to accept a new job offer, after serving effectively a sensible notice period. He had no need to tell his current employer that he was considering a future job offer elsewhere, just like I wouldn't need to tell mine. Real Madrid are to pay the buy out clause that the Spanish FA signed up to. I can understand the FA being upset at exactly how it was handled, but it was better than keeping it secret. If it was only announced after the tournament, after a Barca player suffered a freak accident in training, can you imagine the conspiracy theories?! Only the Spanish FA come off badly here in my eyes. Pure jealousy and anger, nothing rational about this decision at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 @Constantine yeah but you do need to realise that Allegri himself is already at a team like Juventus, and has managed Milan in the past. It's not like he's in friggin Ancona or something. Lopetegui's biggest club gig was at Porto. Big difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, adhikapp said: @Constantine yeah but you do need to realise that Allegri himself is already at a team like Juventus, and has managed Milan in the past. It's not like he's in friggin Ancona or something. Lopetegui's biggest club gig was at Porto. Big difference. I know that. And understand that. Still think it he's in the wrong here. You don't do this two days before first World Cup game. Like someone else said, it's really shi*tshow of a situation. There are no innocents. Real should've gone through proper channels. Lopetegui, same thing, should've said something to his employers, with whom he signed extension month or so ago. Spanish FA shouldn't acted so enraged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Constantine said: I know that. And understand that. Still think it he's in the wrong here. You don't do this two days before first World Cup game. Like someone else said, it's really shi*tshow of a situation. There are no innocents. Real should've gone through proper channels. Lopetegui, same thing, should've said something to his employers, with whom he signed extension month or so ago. Spanish FA shouldn't acted so enraged. That was me as well, you could scroll up I'm not at all defending Lopetegui. Everyone has come out of this worse than before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, adhikapp said: That was me as well, you could scroll up I'm not at all defending Lopetegui. Everyone has come out of this worse than before. Lol. I basically repeated what you said. Hats off to you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Too many people here are focusing on Lopetegui accepting the job and not on him not discussing it with Spain first. If he'd went to them I'm sure it could have been agreed much more amicably. For him to end up having his job announced literally after telling them was a complete farce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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