Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Neil Brock]

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

As I wrote before - Stellaris by Paradox has option to choose gameversion

The most ironic thing - I dont need this in Stellaris because I like all new features of Paradox integrate in this game.
Honeslty have no idea why SI ignore this - if it could be able - I just rollback for prev version and it will be better for all. @Neil Brock Could you clarify me about this issue please?

When I checked Steam page of FM20 it was about 6k reviews. Its about 0.06% from 1 million sales which Miles said in last days. I'm not sure that it will be any key factor of so small percent. Also I believe that SI Team dont sabotage FM and they are hostages of their own development in a sence. But I agree we need to pay attention for this problem. This is a big mistake imo to release ME2026 before Christmas and take a pause before new update.

We've said a fair few times in the past, rolling back versions will in most circumstances break save game compatibility so wouldn't ever be an option. Whilst the game is modular to an extent, there's so much cross-over that you couldn't have one specific part of the game running older versions than other areas. 

[Tiger666]

It's painful watching some of the defending in this match engine. I don't know if it's decision making or what but these are international players. How can they be so inept?

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Tiger666

[OHoh]

Too many excuses

You get paid to deliver, you fail u get criticised, just do a better job next time

Stop going on about how its a difficult process and how it is hard to balance out the perfect match engine... blah blah blah

You go to a restaurant, customer complains about the food do you hear the chef moaning about how they don't get the credit for all the hard work they put in a dish? How cooking the meat is a difficult process? 

You're treating us like we've been given the privilege to play a game that you made for us for free with bunch of volunteers. 

 

[roykela]

I should probably give some proper feedback on this game myself
This is regarding FM20 (ME v2026):

Same, same but different. Which is a great thing. I notice a lot of changes has seemingly happened under the hood as it seems more optimized.
The time it takes from one Continue to another is very, very low compared to FM19.
It flies. And that is with all leagues and about 380k of players loaded for my career save - which ultimately will end up as a journeyman career, having been sacked left and right before i manage to get my tactics right.

When club vision was announced i was thinking that this could potentially change my way of playing the game drastically. It didn't. I don't pay too much attention to it. I glance over the plans and that's it.
Why? Because i don't need to pay attention to it. I have been massively over the wage budget (for a small club), ended up short on my board's goals etc. Doesn't seem to matter here. I can still go on. I will still be offered a new contract.
Not that i mind. I'm happy to be given more time to implement "my football". And i need time. The way i'm playing the game is usually a slow buildup. Probably why i haven't been very successful in FM since FM10

Youth development is another new feature. I find myself doing the same with youth development as with club vision. I take a glance over the youth intake text and that's about it. I don't have any input over who's coming in for the youth team trial
game vs the other youngsters. So i might as well just deal with it as i have before. I get the youth intake, let them play their match and have my Director of Football sign whoever's worthy.
Youth development centre i don't really use at all. With the way i play the game, i don't see the point.
Right now i'm looking at some development advice on the overview screen of the DC. One advice is: 'Is now only considered to be a leading PostNord-ligaen standard player'. Yes, but what do you want me to do about it? That's the advice i would like.

Club vision and Youth development are nice ideas but for me they're a waste of time and resources. I don't play the game any different from FM19 in that aspect.
It's the same with dynamics. I don't use dynamics, nor do i care about the dynamics one bit. I don't have to. It's really not needed.
Medical centre is in the same category for me. It's an area i never, ever venture in. I don't see the point. I have all the information i need elsewhere.

Training is another thing i never do on FM. I would like to do it but i find it so cumbersome and overwhelming that i simply take the easy way out. Give it to the assistant. Let him deal with that crap.

One thing i read over and over in the forums here is that they're trying to replicate, to the best of their capabilities, the statistics of real life. That is great.
But i get the impression that replicating the real life stats is more important than the ME itself. The stats dictates the ME, instead of the ME producing the stats, if it makes any sense.
The goal of FM replicating real life is what makes it FM. And for that you will need real life stats.
But if you focus on getting the ME to play out "properly" you won't have to worry about replicating the real life stats. It will automatically happen.
Don't have the ME try to replicate IRL stats. Focus on the ME playing out as similar to real life on-the-pitch football as possible and the replication of real life stats will come as a result.

What i see this year as i have with so many other previous versions is the ME.
The last ME update before christmas is always the "worst" one. Weird unlogical behaviour is always common with that update. Every year.
For the last 8-10 years it really feels like SI are taking the "worst" ME version as the underlying basis of the next coming game.
What i mean by that, and FM20 is no different, is that by March/April the game has a very, very good ME; in relation to other MEs of the same iteration of the game.
But when the new game hits the shelves (and the Beta-shelves as well) it seems like it's always a 2 step forward and 1 step back.
It plays out like an optimized version of the worst ME of the game before. Same issues are back and they have to balance something that was fixed over again.


Example:
Apologies in advance because i can't remember which FMs
Goalkeeper grabbing the ball and bringing it over the line for a corner.
That was fixed with a March/April update.
Next FM it's back again. And it's been in the game ever since.

Defenders moving upfield when a high long ball is played.
It was fixed and eradicated. Now it's back again.

The ME i imagine being a monster for the programmers. It really can't be easy to balance this. So my hat off to them.
I really like the ME though. It plays out beautifully. I can mostly get my team to play the way i want them to, by looking at the matches played out. And that's the most important part for me.

Animations are really weird though. Good but weird.
Like that battle next to the goalline between a defender and an attacker.
Attacker runs after the ball. Stops the ball but overruns (happens waaaaaay too often). Defender catches up and does a weird battling thingy.
Attacker kicks the ball into the defender; many times towards the goalline in spite of being 20-25 meters away from the goal, and not in a goalwards direction.

Or

Defender all alone with the ball around 16 meters, to the side of the goal. Standing there thinking about what to do. No-one is closing him down.
Yup, let's clear it to a corner kick by putting the ball into orbit.

Or

Goalkeeper bringing the ball over the line for a cornerkick.

When i look at the players' behaviour and actions in 3D it seems like many times the players are acting as if they are somewhere else on the pitch in the ME than where they are on the 3D pitch.
Like, players stumbling as if they were jostling (or avoiding) when they're all alone.
Quite a few people mentions and complains about 1v1s and, defenders vs long balls over the top and wingers shooting.
I would argue that part of it could be because the 3D isn't accurately placing the players in their correct ME positions.
Which brings me to my next point.

When i watch the matches unfold while keeping an eye on the commentary, i realise that it doesn't correlate.
If i would've had only commentary as match presentation i would've been given a very different (not every time) match than what the 3D is showing me.
A winger with a ball coming at a very narrow angle. No-one to pass the ball to. He shoots. Keeper saves, as he should.
Commentary: 'That was a sitter. How did he miss that'. No, it really wasn't. 
I used to love the commentary on the old CMs. It was really good. Now i don't know anymore. As i don't really pay too much attention to it. But i do read it now and then.
I get the feeling that the commentary is getting more and more disjointed from what i see in 3D for every version of FM that comes out.

Taking all of the above into consideration; It seems like the 3D representation of the players' positions on the field are, relatively often, flat out wrong.
I don't mean often as, it happens all time. But often enough.

Example:
Player with nobody around trips as if he's around someone, battling for the ball.
Commentary says something like: X and Y battled each other for pace to get to the ball first (bad example but just using it for the purpose of argument and making the point).
|
Leads me to the conclusive thought, in that situation, that in the ME one or both players are somewhere else on that pitch than what the 3D is showing me.
|
Leads me to questioning the actuality of the rest of what i see.

It would explain the GKs bringing the ball over the line.
The lone defender clearing the ball over the line as if he had the grim reaper breathing down his neck.


Overall, i love this game. It's the best FM game i have played so far.
When i'm not at work i can invest full days into playing FM20. One of the biggest reasons is because i don't have to wait so much, in-game. The processing of the game is so damn quick. It's a thing of beauty.
Will finish off with a few cons. The reason i'm only writing cons is that the pros outweights the cons by a huge margin.

Cons:
- Custom views. For the love of all that is good; please fix this once and for all. They're all over the place.
- GKs bringing the ball over the line for a corner - again.
- Defenders kicking the ball anywhere in spite of not being under pressure and having loads of time and space.
- Setting up set-pieces. It's clunky and cumbersome. When i finally get the motivation to do it the players don't follow it anyway.
- Too many chances/shots created.
- Players trying to catch up with the ball and (needlessly) stopping it before it crosses the line, so the opposition's player can easily take the ball. You see it happening IRL. But not multiple times in one match, every match. It's a relatively rare occurrence IRL.
- Animations in 3D representation doesn't correlate correctly to what is mentioned in the commentary. Which one is the most correct?
- Defenders needlessly heading the ball instead of bringing it down when in acres of space.
- Analysis numbers not the same as the actual numbers.
- Training is overwhelmingly cumbersome and hard to get into. An easier tutorial (for dummies like me ) is needed.
- Club vision. I'm being told one thing in the board room. During contract negotiations i'm being told something else. When checking board room after contract signed and vision updated it's still different in the board room.
- Job centre and job security. Why do they have to be separate? And why are all jobs on by default in all loaded countries? If i'm in the lower league of Norway, do i really need to know that UdeG U20 in the Mexican U20 League is looking for a physio? Why is it even there?
- Social feed. All it does is slow the game down (yes, it does slow the game down considerably when you have a lot of subscriptions) and add people to stuff i'm following automatically. I don't want to subscribe to anything, so don't add things automatically.
- Staff responsibilities is messy. Especially the Staff responsibilities overview.
- Preferences screen is just a messy thing. It was fine the way it was before. Now it's just a mess.
- All player names above the players in 3D.....where did that go? It was requested. It was given. Then immediately taken out again. I do not consider that a new feature to bring it back.
- Stuttery 3D at random times. Smoothens out when playing a video on my 2nd monitor but the game doesn't like it when i put a full screen video on pause.
- Feels like many screens have been set up and organized from a programmer's perspective and not an average user perspective.
- Assistant Manager in-match feedback. Please improve this........a lot. It has to take more than just stats vs stats into consideration.
- X has a good reputation = X is awesome, even though X is playing terribly. Have the game consider attributes, stats, performance etc. more than reputation (in almost all aspects).
- Have the FM lingo represent the same as in real life. If it's a simulation of real life then the lingo really need to mean the same in FM as in real life. Otherwise people will be confused and misinformed (and miseducated).
- What is FM's definition of CCC?
- Conversations are very negatively loaded. They're black or white. Either or. That's not how most conversations go.
- Throw in next to the corner flag. Throw in goes to a teammate. Teammate passes the ball back. Offside! It happens but in FM20 it happens too often.
- Average ratings are very low. I find it hard to get anyone above average rating of 7.
- Penalties affect ratings way too much. Players who misses a penalty are heavily punished, rating-wise, and will receive a low rating. Regardless if that player does everything else to perfection or not.

Well, that's today's novel. Thanks for reading.
My next book, if i write one, will be out about the same time next year.
Thanks to my assistant Emma G who decided to pop up a couple of times here as well.

Edited January 10, 2020 by roykela

[Johnny Ace]

21 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

It's painful watching some of the defending in this match engine. I don't know if it's decision making or what but these are international players. How can they be so inept?

 

Crikey

You sure have some patience Tiger 

[Tiger666]

Just now, Johnny Ace said:

Crikey

You sure have some patience Tiger 

And an inexhaustible supply of keyboards.

[Novem9]

9 минут назад, Tiger666 сказал:

And an inexhaustible supply of keyboards.

Insure your table or what?

[battles_atlas]

12 hours ago, roykela said:

They do have the possibility to not the buy the game immediately. By having patience and some self control. They can try the demo first if they're not sure. Especially if "the ME has been broken for the last 746 FMs".
 

Sorry but I can't stand this kind of 'blame-the-user' mentality. This is a game that has a new full price version out every season, with updated stats, so blaming buyers for not showing the patience to wait ~six months for the March ME update is a little absurd - the football season they want to simulate is nearly over at this point. Furthermore SI is not a little indie studio releasing a brand new title, where growing pains are to be expected.  This is a major title in about its 35th iteration now, there is absolutely no legitimate reason that the match engine should be released with obvious problems, and yet it seems to be a regular occurrence. FM games at this point should be rock solid when they come out, and if they're not it's because development is being rushed to hit release deadlines that shouldn't be there. That is the bottom line - simple as that.

The demo also isn't an excuse - I played FM20 a ton when it first came out, but the problems with the match engine have stopped me playing for the last month, possibly because for the first month or so I was playing in lower leagues where terrible defensive issues and crap strikers are more plausible. Now I'm in a major league though its completely immersion breaking. With a game this deep, and also still being revised by changes, a limited demo is not enough to wash the devs hands of responsibility for what they are releasing.

The match engine isn't "broken", but it is totally unsatisfactory for a well resourced game this far into its release history.

[IrrelevantLion]

14 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

And an inexhaustible supply of keyboards.

and ALT+F4 keys 

[roykela]

1 minute ago, battles_atlas said:

Sorry but I can't stand this kind of 'blame-the-user' mentality. This is a game that has a new full price version out every season, with updated stats, so blaming buyers for not showing the patience to wait ~six months for the March ME update is a little absurd - the football season they want to simulate is nearly over at this point. Furthermore SI is not a little indie studio releasing a brand new title, where growing pains are to be expected.  This is a major title in about its 35th iteration now, there is absolutely no legitimate reason that the match engine should be released with obvious problems, and yet it seems to be a regular occurrence. FM games at this point should be rock solid when they come out, and if they're not it's because development is being rushed to hit release deadlines that shouldn't be there. That is the bottom line - simple as that.

The demo also isn't an excuse - I played FM20 a ton when it first came out, but the problems with the match engine have stopped me playing for the last month, possibly because for the first month or so I was playing in lower leagues where terrible defensive issues and crap strikers are more plausible. Now I'm in a major league though its completely immersion breaking. With a game this deep, and also still being revised by changes, a limited demo is not enough to wash the devs hands of responsibility for what they are releasing.

The match engine isn't "broken", but it is totally unsatisfactory for a well resourced game this far into its release history.

It is a full price version every season, yes. Many users know that, and the point was mainly directed towards those users.
Those who haven't been happy before shouldn't then just jump into the next game and then blame the developers, IF the user has had a bad experience before.
That is solely on the user's part.
If i'm unhappy with a game and a new game in the same series is being released, i try it out first. If i can't try it out first, i watch videos and read the feedback first.
Of course, one might come to the conclusion that it is still bad. Feedback is then essential to the developers.
But to continue the looping procedure year after year, for a disgruntled customer, is purely down to the user's part.

Don't have to wait for the March ME update. It's easily playable from the get-go.
It is rock solid. But it's also very subjective. Some people might be deferred from the game because Torreira's hair might be long in the game instead of short as in real life.
That is a valid issue but not a game-breaking issue. The point of the game is still fit for purpose.

The demo is a very valid excuse. Especially if one tries the demo, buy the full game and discover it's not the same. Even more valid grounds for complaining and possibly a refund.
I play in the lower leagues and when i have terrible defensive issues and crap strikers i try to deal with it. It's a manager's job. That's what managing is. Regardless of lower leagues or top leagues.
For the reasons you are mentioning (which only says a bare minimum), a demo would be more than sufficient to realise what you're happy with and not. You could try out top leagues and lower leagues and the problems would be apparent very quickly,
as the most common issues mentioned were introduced fairly early.

On a general side-note when it comes to indie vs big studio; My experience is that the bigger the studio, the bigger the issues and more mess of a game.

Blame-the-user mentality. You do know that i'm only a user as well, right?
Try to read it with nuance. It's not one or the other. 

[Novem9]

44 минуты назад, roykela сказал:

The demo is a very valid excuse. Especially if one tries the demo, buy the full game and discover it's not the same. Even more valid grounds for complaining and possibly a refund.

Oh thanks at first I thought that you didnt realize my words too  

There are not simple rules too. Refund is possible when you played less 2 hours and purshace was during 14 days.  Update happened many days later, but even if not - first 2 hours I just create filters, set interface bars, check db issues by editor issues, etc.  Let's clarify one thing - my criticism about update only (and some responce around this but this issue even no chance to discuss there are). So about update - if you (developer) released update please be sure this is stable in gameplay. Is it stable? At first look. At worse in second, deeper. I visit also two old FM sources besides this and members talking about the same issues. Almost all members of these sources not visit this community as I know. So its just not my wishlist as a guy who don't want to be happy. So last update is a mistery for me. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Novem9

[bitzu_rock]

@roykela

"Same, same but different. Which is a great thing. I notice a lot of changes has seemingly happened under the hood as it seems more optimized.
The time it takes from one Continue to another is very, very low compared to FM19.
It flies. And that is with all leagues and about 380k of players loaded for my career save - which ultimately will end up as a journeyman career, having been sacked left and right before i manage to get my tactics right."

 

Could you please let me know what do you use to play? A laptop or PC and what configuration?

I am using a Lenovo Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.5GHz , Memory: 8192MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 graphic card . If i select all the leagues from England, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Scotland, Wales as playable and full players custom setup for these nations (around 33k players loaded), it loads ok but i feel it slowly enough not to select more countries as playable. I get 3 and half stars rating for game speed.

[He can't believe he's missed it]

1 hour ago, OHoh said:

Too many excuses

You get paid to deliver, you fail u get criticised, just do a better job next time

Stop going on about how its a difficult process and how it is hard to balance out the perfect match engine... blah blah blah

You go to a restaurant, customer complains about the food do you hear the chef moaning about how they don't get the credit for all the hard work they put in a dish? How cooking the meat is a difficult process? 

You're treating us like we've been given the privilege to play a game that you made for us for free with bunch of volunteers. 

 

Oh but if you alter the quantity of one of the ingredients it could throw the balance of the whole dish to a terrible place

[theking1]

@battles_atlas totally agree....and i've played every version but the process of fixing the match engine every year is wearing a little thin now

[Miravlix]

Not sure if this is the 100th B club bug or something else.

 

For some reason a competing league team sold a high PA youngster, he hasn't played a single match for my senior team (still developing), but it's one of the press question about him playing against his old team, uhm, no he isn't playing against his old team. He isn't even registered to play in the league, except due one of the few B team mechanics that actually work where registered B team players can be used on the senior team.

 

I can't even see my B players in most of the interfaces (Can't seem them in the comparision menu and many other places), if I click on the B team icon it gives me an empty list of players, because for some stupid reason the default for B team is to not have the B team players visible. So it's bloody annoying dealing with all the other bugs that I also have to waste my time on the game randomly including B team players as they where Senior regulars. Especially since I started reporting this crap back in something like 2014.

[roykela]

4 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Oh thanks at first I thought that you didnt realize my words too  

There are not simple rules too. Refund is possible when you played less 2 hours and purshace was during 14 days.  Update happened many days later, but even if not - first 2 hours I just create filters, set interface bars, check db issues by editor issues, etc.  Let's clarify one thing - my criticism about update only (and some responce around this but this issue even no chance to discuss there are). So about update - if you (developer) released update please be sure this is stable in gameplay. Is it stable? At first look. At worse in second, deeper. I visit also two old FM sources besides this and members talking about the same issues. Almost all members of these sources not visit this community as I know. So its just not my wishlist as a guy who don't want to be happy. So last update is a mistery for me. 

Refund:
Those are the ground rules for a refund on Steam, indeed. But it's not limited to. It would probably be a bit of work but if one can prove that it's not working as intended then you could
still get a refund. I know that Steam customer support isn't the best but it's not impossible.
I got a refund on a game, even though i was past the 2 hours, after a full explanation. The general point was that it was recommended by a friend and it was nothing like it.
I read the the description of the game on Steam with a friend's biased point of view. Quite a bit more complicated than just that but that was the general and main point.
I got the refund.

I do understand what you mean and i'm not really opposing it.
If something is a common theme across several boards there is most likely something to it.
Hopefully the next update will fix a few things, whenever that will come. Fix for you and not make it worse for me

[Novem9]

6 минут назад, roykela сказал:

Refund:
Those are the ground rules for a refund on Steam, indeed. But it's not limited to. It would probably be a bit of work but if one can prove that it's not working as intended then you could
still get a refund. I know that Steam customer support isn't the best but it's not impossible.
I got a refund on a game, even though i was past the 2 hours, after a full explanation. The general point was that it was recommended by a friend and it was nothing like it.
I read the the description of the game on Steam with a friend's biased point of view. Quite a bit more complicated than just that but that was the general and main point.
I got the refund.

I do understand what you mean and i'm not really opposing it.
If something is a common theme across several boards there is most likely something to it.
Hopefully the next update will fix a few things, whenever that will come. Fix for you and not make it worse for me

I already tried with FM19  Not worked. For sure it works in some way. For example I bought pre-order of Insurgency 2 but 1) game release moved later 2) the most important thing - optimization was awful - I just literaly couldn't move in beta. Steam approved my refund request in the same day which I asked. There are a different situation and I could not convince a Steam Support that I bought another FM19 But as we discussed I will be more patient in next time oh yeah

Edited January 10, 2020 by Novem9

[Mitja]

1 minute ago, theking1 said:

@battles_atlas totally agree....and i've played every version but the process of fixing the match engine every year is wearing a little thin now

Sure but FM19 ME really needed fixing. I'm more amazed they had almost year to do it and then replace the new one with another one in next few weeks. 

[roykela]

11 minutes ago, bitzu_rock said:

@roykela

"Same, same but different. Which is a great thing. I notice a lot of changes has seemingly happened under the hood as it seems more optimized.
The time it takes from one Continue to another is very, very low compared to FM19.
It flies. And that is with all leagues and about 380k of players loaded for my career save - which ultimately will end up as a journeyman career, having been sacked left and right before i manage to get my tactics right."

 

Could you please let me know what do you use to play? A laptop or PC and what configuration?

I am using a Lenovo Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.5GHz , Memory: 8192MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 graphic card . If i select all the leagues from England, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Scotland, Wales as playable and full players custom setup for these nations (around 33k players loaded), it loads ok but i feel it slowly enough not to select more countries as playable. I get 3 and half stars rating for game speed.

I'm on a desktop PC with the following specs:

Windows 10 Home.
Intel Core i7 9700K @3.6GHz (Running @ 4.7GHz Turbo mode)
16GB RAM Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666MHz
Samsung 1TB HDD
Cooler Master ML120L water cooler

I do experience slowdowns though. And that is mainly during transfer window openings and closings when a lot of transfers are going through; and season changes.
Some screens that contain a lot of information as well, as Job Centre, Job Security and Player Search screen when i have both top scouting packages selected.
Those are screens that i never or rarely use anyway.
I think that my game speed stars is half a star
But i don't pay attention to the stars. They're misleading. A decent pointer but shouldn't be heavily relied upon.

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, roykela сказал:

But i don't pay attention to the stars. They're misleading

the cake is a lie

[roykela]

4 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I already tried with FM19  Not worked. For sure it works in some way. For example I bought pre-order of Insurgency 2 but 1) game release moved later 2) the most important thing - optimization was awful - I just literaly couldn't move in beta. Steam approved my refund request in the same day which I asked. There are a different situation and I could not convince a Steam Support that I bought another FM19 But as we discussed I will be more patient in next time oh yeah

It's always worth a try.
Yeah, i'd advise you to be a bit more patient if you're in the category i mentioned earlier.
Information is so readily and easily available these days that you can give the demo a whirl first and/or watch some gameplays while reading some feedback.

It's kind of a "do as i say and not as i do" kind of advice, as i buy every FM unseen every year

[nicandmads]

I'm just about to give up on FM 20, the amount of times i see players not play a simple ball across to their teammate to tap in for a goal is stupidly high. Wingers just cut in and shoot from stupid angles, i'm actually done. Fix this crap ffs  

[renato.]

I'm giving up too. I'm just tired, it's not fun. If you play with a high defensive block, you get balls over the top all over the place. If you play with a low block, you need to pray in every defensive phase to your defender not screw up by giving possession directly into the opposition feet.

[nicandmads]

10 minutes ago, renato. said:

I'm giving up too. I'm just tired, it's not fun. If you play with a high defensive block, you get balls over the top all over the place. If you play with a low block, you need to pray in every defensive phase to your defender not screw up by giving possession directly into the opposition feet.

I've just reverted to playing FM touch and simulating all games until this shambles of a ME is fixed 

[tajj7]

I gave up a while ago which is really sad, probably had 100s of hours on FM19 by this point.  I just can't watch yet another hoof over the top that is first time, is pinpoint and is more often than not being done by a player not capable of such a pass, as my defender instead of just heading these hoofs away is baffingly moving forward, whilst the ball is in the air,  letting the striker run freely in behind, even if they don't have much pace, that then leads to a 1v1 that the striker misses most of the time.

Or watch another player with high pace/acceleration and dribbling pick up the ball with his back to goal and a quality defender on his back, which would be where in real football he'd 99/100 have to pass the ball but instead just turns my defender like he is literally not there and I am watching a game of FIFA on easy mode against the AI. 

It's just too depressing and frustrating. 

[Domoboy23]

Really miss the days of FM13 where the match engine was smooth, and had easy to interpret animations (played every game since 14 on 2D to counteract the poor animations) but also when your tactic used to be easy to represent, and players on the ME actually had personality. Also easy to see players attributes represented on the ME, as well as elite players were able (rare granted, as it should be) were able to grab 30+ goals a season in the peak of their career, a la Ronaldo/Messi. And thats coming from someone who loves defence.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Domoboy23

[rjferguson90]

Processing between days is crazy slow for me. I've owned the game for 8 days and I've managed to get through only 10 weeks of game. Reported it in the bugs forum but responses on there are almost as slow (and frankly quite useless) as the game itself.

[fm2020.smith]

if you want to win games, the majority of games are played with 1 up top by the ai. so just play with 1 at the back and 1 def midfielder and you take every tactical 

option off from the tactics screen so you are telling your team nothing. this engine is so poor it doesnt compensate at all and you go on a winning run

[pamf]

The game is really really great.. love all the new features. The staff responsibility screen is a bit messy I feel, but all in all they have striked gold again.

The ME certainly have its problems as have been stated more than enough on this forum and many other forums, what bothers me most is their unwillingness to communicate when the update will be. I understand its hard to pinpoint exactly, but are we talking days? weeks? months? I refuse to believe the " we don't know" "when its ready" answers. And if the case is that we shouldn't wait for a update until march, at least say that. 

This said, I don't feel the game is unplayable and completely damaged, it is actually very very good. 

Last thing, every year the game is dropped with minor bugs, game interference errors, etc etc(not talking ME). Isn't that what the beta is for? excluding these minor hick ups. Even now a couple of months and a couple of updates in we still have small bugs all over your product.

All in all, great game!!

 

[fm2020.smith]

7 minutes ago, pamf said:

The game is really really great.. love all the new features. The staff responsibility screen is a bit messy I feel, but all in all they have striked gold again.

The ME certainly have its problems as have been stated more than enough on this forum and many other forums, what bothers me most is their unwillingness to communicate when the update will be. I understand its hard to pinpoint exactly, but are we talking days? weeks? months? I refuse to believe the " we don't know" "when its ready" answers. And if the case is that we shouldn't wait for a update until march, at least say that. 

This said, I don't feel the game is unplayable and completely damaged, it is actually very very good. 

Last thing, every year the game is dropped with minor bugs, game interference errors, etc etc(not talking ME). Isn't that what the beta is for? excluding these minor hick ups. Even now a couple of months and a couple of updates in we still have small bugs all over your product.

All in all, great game!!

 

oh dear

[Mitja]

Wow that's some harsh reviews above, that being said I quit playing like a month ago. Can't even remember anymore but is the ME really that bad?

[Dkfootball]

Why do clubs lose sponsorship money after a few seasons, on my game United nearly £100m down compared to this year. Seems they're not re-negotiating deals? 

[Tiger666]

17 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Wow that's some harsh reviews above, that being said I quit playing like a month ago. Can't even remember anymore but is the ME really that bad?

In its current state I believe it's one of the poorest I've played. The game itself is good overall, everything outside the match engine though there are still loads of bugs with the interface, training, dynamics etc but for me the match engine is infuriating. Pretty much resorted to key highlights now so I don't have to see the worst of it.

[renato.]

25 minutos atrás, Mitja disse:

Wow that's some harsh reviews above, that being said I quit playing like a month ago. Can't even remember anymore but is the ME really that bad?

In my view, there is a lot of variety regarding play and construction in ME. But, in the end, it seems that's only one way to really score and suffer goals at the finishing zones and that's really frustrating to anyone who takes a lot of time and testing to build a squad and a good tactic.

[Mitja]

1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

In its current state I believe it's one of the poorest I've played. The game itself is good overall, everything outside the match engine though there are still loads of bugs with the interface, training, dynamics etc but for me the match engine is infuriating. Pretty much resorted to key highlights now so I don't have to see the worst of it.

Yeah I've seen what you are posting, believe you. 

[Etebaer]

What i forgot to give Feedback on...Climate/weather conditions...

I use to start a CaC in Germany and i got aware that in the heat of the summer is in real in the Cold of the summer bcs the temps in Germany from June to September and even October use to be around 30°Celsius to 35°Celsius.

In the game it is aroud 15° to 25°Celsius and instead of being dry as heck like all the past summers in the recent history is raining all the ****ing time...

I dont remeber the winter conditons but if the summer is way off the winter is probably way off too...

###

Realistic Stats:

Does not happen until you take all freedom of choice away from all Managers bcs as each Manager makes decisions of his own which will affect statrs in different ways so the stats they never ever can be similar to real world stats 

Where one Manager loses the other wins, where one Manager goes all in the other parks the bus, where one Manager exploits the wings the other plays a central style and as every Manager uses most often different playes there is no way you get the same stats as in reality.

You can only make cause and effect as realistic as possible and live with the stats you get out of that!!!

Edited January 10, 2020 by Etebaer

[rp1966]

The current ME is infuriating - every so often it'll show you what it is truly capable of and you'll pin the opposition back, pass your way around the edge of the box and slide a ball through for a forward to score and for a brief moment you remember why you fell in love with this game - then 2 minutes later the RNG grants the opposition a goal out of literally nowhere. You go on to win the match, but every other goal is some RNG travesty like a dodgy backpass or wonder pass over the top and you never see anything decently built-up from open play for the rest of the match.

This kind of thing has been going on for a number of years and the disquiet about it just seems to grow. Yet it seems someone with major influence in SI only sees stats, not how the ME actually plays - if the league stats look in line with RL and the sales stats are up, end of story.

But I think something more fundamental is going on - I think whoever drives the direction of development for FM has a different vision of the game than a big chunk of the game's fanbase.  Year-on-year the game seems to get honed towards something that is designed to better represent this year's season plus a few afterwards, and it best supports a short run career playing micromanagement style until the next db update.  Some people like to play like that, but the most popular play styles seem to be about wanting long multi-decade saves either developing a single club or a lifetime journeyman career.  So much of the game falls apart as you go further forward in time (player decline, poor 'AI' management, reputation entrenchment, poor newgens) that that type of game becomes unsatisfying, if not impossible.

I think if the ME ever gets back to something that plays decent looking football, SI's next challenge is to create a more dynamic game world aimed at a 20-30 season career - that means 'AI' squad building improvements, balanced newgen generation and a less linear reputation system so that big clubs make mistakes in picking managers and players so that sometime they fade and clubs at the top start to change.  Some of the experiments with nerfing the EPL show that reputation rapidly re-established the current order pretty much exactly as is.  It shouldn't be that rigid.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by rp1966

[rp1966]

1 hour ago, Etebaer said:

What i forgot to give Feedback on...Climate/weather conditions...

I use to start a CaC in Germany and i got aware that in the heat of the summer is in real in the Cold of the summer bcs the temps in Germany from June to September and even October use to be around 30°Celsius to 35°Celsius.

In the game it is aroud 15° to 25°Celsius and instead of being dry as heck like all the past summers in the recent history is raining all the ****ing time...

I dont remeber the winter conditons but if the summer is way off the winter is probably way off too...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if weather conditions around the world hadn't been updated for years. Given the changing climate, they are probably due for recalibration against the last 5 years' weather data,

Maybe someone from SI knows when weather data was last updated,

 

[Lexis]

8 hours ago, OHoh said:

Too many excuses

You get paid to deliver, you fail u get criticised, just do a better job next time

Stop going on about how its a difficult process and how it is hard to balance out the perfect match engine... blah blah blah

You go to a restaurant, customer complains about the food do you hear the chef moaning about how they don't get the credit for all the hard work they put in a dish? How cooking the meat is a difficult process? 

You're treating us like we've been given the privilege to play a game that you made for us for free with bunch of volunteers. 

 

What this person said.

I also find it astonishing in 2020, they are designing a game to be played on:

 

• Minimum:
  • Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
  • OS: Windows 7 (SP1), 8/8.1, 10 (Update 1803/April 2018 or later) – 64-bit
  • Processor: Intel Pentium 4 (64-bit), Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 – 2.2 GHz +
  • Memory: 2 GB RAM
  • Graphics: Intel GMA X4500, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT or AMD/ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 – 256MB VRAM
  • DirectX: Version 11
  • Storage: 7 GB available space

 

As per Steam Survey 2019 the most popular configurations:

16 GB RAM,

3.3 to 3.69 GHz CPU

4 Cores

GTX 1060

6 GB VRAM

 

So in 2020 they are making games for 2 GB RAM and Athlon 64 - 2-2GHz.

What is the point? How many people are actually playing the game on similar specs? Why is a game even molded after that population? We are in the age of cloud, machine learning, artificial intelligence, 16 cores, 6 GB VRAM yet they are limiting the whole game to ..... 2006 specs? Is the game engine not supporting an ugprade and thus remaking it is not feasible at this point? That may also be the case.

I'm not saying make it high end and unaccesible for persons with "legacy" systems, but at this point the game is more expensive than a rig with the minimum system requirements.

Also, without bashing on the QA team, but each edition there are some bugs going through and into the release that are just unfathomable, are obvious in each and single save and match and simply mind boggling that they have not been spotted. Case to point is FM18s long shots that were going in throw ins (when Messi and Ronaldo or similar CA players shot) and it wasn't acknowledged even in 18.3.

This year's version was the least feature-rich edition I can remember in a long time (talking quality features not filler features) and yet that would not had been a problem, had the Match engine actually been quality.

It is also slightly concerning that we are getting the final product in March and at a reduced price, rather than at release when the full price is paid. I am very happy that this year for a change, I have not paid premium price for a game that is of little difference to last year's edition.

LE: Has modularity ever been considered past the point it's currently at? Look at Skyrim. They have published the Creation Kit and the community has done absolutely astonishing things with it. A similar tool that would allow us to mod the game more in depth, including match mechanics would be something fantastic to bring to the community. Inevitably there will be individuals that would put a lot of work into that and possibly come with things none of us would imagine.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Lexis

[bleventozturk]

5 hours ago, tajj7 said:

 

Or watch another player with high pace/acceleration and dribbling pick up the ball with his back to goal and a quality defender on his back, which would be where in real football he'd 99/100 have to pass the ball but instead just turns my defender like he is literally not there and I am watching a game of FIFA on easy mode against the AI. 

This really is a great comparison 

 

[Sanel]

1 hour ago, Lexis said:

So in 2020 they are making games for 2 GB RAM and Athlon 64 - 2-2GHz.

What is the point? How many people are actually playing the game on similar specs? Why is a game even molded after that population? We are in the age of cloud, machine learning, artificial intelligence, 16 cores, 6 GB VRAM yet they are limiting the whole game to ..... 2006 specs? Is the game engine not supporting an ugprade and thus remaking it is not feasible at this point? That may also be the case.

What do you want to debate here? You are posting minimum specs for a game that doesn't acquire a high-end system and never will. Even comparing it with Skyrim (???).

Quote

As per Steam Survey 2019 the most popular configurations

You do realize that most people who completed that survey are hardcore gamers with a high-end system, right? FM doesn't belong in that category. 

also btw: most people who play FM play it on a laptop instead of desktop. Start a poll, you will see for yourself.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Sanel

[Lexis]

13 minutes ago, Sanel said:

What do you want to debate here? You are posting minimum specs for a game that doesn't acquire a high-end system and never will. Even comparing it with Skyrim (???).

You do realize that most people who completed that survey are hardcore gamers with a high-end system, right? FM doesn't belong in that category. 

also btw: most people who play FM play it on a laptop instead of desktop. Start a poll, you will see for yourself.

There was no comparision with Skyrim. I merely pointed out what they achieved by releasing their Creation Kit in regards to modding.

I accept that the configuration I posted as popular may be above average. I cannot accept you telling me 2 GB RAM and Athlon X64 is the norm these days. Sorry, no. Even laptops are much stronger than that these days.

I specifically said I don't expect FM to ever be a high-end system requiring game. I am not ever expecting that to happen. But look how far we are behind. I am not asking for FIFA 2019 graphics or mechanics. But look where we are at. What is the reason we are not using more power than this?

No one here can argue Athlon X64 and 2 GB RAM is the norm or even anywhere near that. That is a little more than a brick compared to what people have today.

[Lucas]

Just now, Lexis said:

I accept that the configuration I posted as popular may be above average. I cannot accept you telling me 2 GB RAM and Athlon X64 is the norm these days. Sorry, no. Even laptops are much stronger than that these days.

We have our own data on what systems players of FM use, and minimum specs are based on that. 

[BigV]

1 hour ago, Lexis said:

We are in the age of cloud, machine learning, artificial intelligence, 16 cores, 6 GB VRAM yet they are limiting the whole game to ..... 2006 specs?

Im sorry but i've had my laptop for about 3-4 years for "working" purposes that can play "some" games. fm20 demo doesn't even run smooth with all the bits at medium, I'd have to turn most off/turn it to lowest and have 3d at med and still stutters in game. Heck fm17 I can go full power but my fan will become my radiator... HP I5-6200u thats clocks in at 2.3 and goes to 2.4ghz. Rubbish i know but FM will always favour a longer span of years for laptops/pc. People play the game on the trains or when traveling, they aint gonna buy a new laptop just to play a game when the audience is targeted at pretty much anyone and everyone. Don't expect people to whip out their PC build on the train or a 1k priced laptop that people use for their work do you?? 

[Lexis]

Just now, Lucas said:

We have our own data on what systems players of FM use, and minimum specs are based on that. 

Can any of that be made public? Just curious. I cannot imagine those minimum specs are something very often met among people.

The cheapest laptop I can find at my local supplier (200$) is a Celeron Dual Core going up to 2400 MHz and with 4 GB RAM. Just to put those specs in perspective.

[KUBI]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Lexis:

So in 2020 they are making games for 2 GB RAM and Athlon 64 - 2-2GHz.

What is the point? How many people are actually playing the game on similar specs?

 

For a lot of people this is the only game they are playing. They don't need a gaming computer and therefore playing it often on older computers with low specs. The same with very young customers. 

[Lucas]

4 minutes ago, Lexis said:

Can any of that be made public? Just curious. I cannot imagine those minimum specs are something very often met among people.

The cheapest laptop I can find at my local supplier (200$) is a Celeron Dual Core going up to 2400 MHz and with 4 GB RAM. Just to put those specs in perspective.

No. There are people every year however, that do try to play FM on systems that are "under spec" (mileage varies whether it runs or not).

As @KUBI points out, some people literally only have FM as games that they play. I was one of those for a few years when I first started playing the series. 

[Sanel]

6 minutes ago, Lexis said:

Can any of that be made public? Just curious. I cannot imagine those minimum specs are something very often met among people.

The cheapest laptop I can find at my local supplier (200$) is a Celeron Dual Core going up to 2400 MHz and with 4 GB RAM. Just to put those specs in perspective.

It will run but it won't be a smooth experience. Actually FM is a pretty high demanding game from both RAM and CPU perspective, but does it actually require to have a high-end system? No. I think FM2019 and FM2020 is poorly optimized though. 

[Mitja]

I really think there is one thing that holds down the development of ME and that thing is - FM has more football styes than real game. I guess it's not easy to incorporate all the stuff that exists plus much more that doesn't. 

I'm amazed nobody thought of that before  

 

[Lexis]

3 minutes ago, KUBI said:

For a lot of people this is the only game they are playing. They don't need a gaming computer and therefore playing it often on older computers with low specs. The same with very young customers. 

 

By the same coin, you are potentially missing out on clients who would otherwise buy if the game showed improved graphics, mechanics, AI and so on (features dictated by computing power in one way or another).

I am not aware of how Google Stadia is working out at the moment for FM but Cloud Gaming is getting closer, resources will no longer be an issue to that degree.

While FM is not something you play for graphics, it is frustrating watching that kind of graphics in 2020. The match engine can only be taken so far in it's current iteration. We are already very close to it's limits. We are seeing them every year. Sure, the engine is updated each year, but the updates are  far from anything spectacular, rather just fine tuning from one edition to the other. We are already seeing the limits in defending, in certain animations, in certain reactions of players. Every iteration is an engine with SLIGHTLY better graphics (some redone textures, some extra animations, again slightly), but in itself and how it plays out mechanic-wise it's just a rehashing of the prior version with hopes that this year's will be better. We have older versions of FM with a match engine closer to reality and more balanced than some newer versions. There rarely is a clear improvement in how the match engine plays out from yearly version to yearly version. Release day match engine is generally average at best and disastrous at worst. It's rather just a rehashing, hoping it gets closer to what it should be and by version .3 maybe better than last years. This has been the trend for the past years. If year by year, the match engine at the release day is far from what it should be, there must be some process going wrong in Production. If not enough testers are available, going beta sooner and making it available for anybody not just buyers may be a solution.

Problems have to be recognized and taken responsability for, only then a solution can be thought of and implemented.