decapitated Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Not susprised given its him but still not on. Ironic that the only racism so far at Russia 2018 is from Maradonna, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bestbrother Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Didnt another South American player do something like this? Not at the World Cup, but im sure on a tour of China or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, bestbrother said: Didnt another South American player do something like this? Not at the World Cup, but im sure on a tour of China or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted June 16, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 16, 2018 I think given his past behaviour that he's probably just a bloody idiot rather than being racist. Most his brain cells probably destroyed by booze and drugs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Neil Brock said: I think given his past behaviour that he's probably just a bloody idiot rather than being racist. Most his brain cells probably destroyed by booze and drugs. Well it's not from heading the ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, bestbrother said: Didnt another South American player do something like this? Not at the World Cup, but im sure on a tour of China or something. Kenedy did it. Also Santos players did it when Santos played the Club World Cup last time. This kind of gesture isn't generally regarded as racist in South America. Maradona is an idiot but I doubt it he had any bad intentions with that gesture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 It's Maradona, he can do whatever he wants. (un)fortunately Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordan Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Lavezzi did it too, in China iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Maradona was smoking a big cigar, right? There must be something in that cigar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Forget the cigar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 46 minutes ago, Neil Brock said: I think given his past behaviour that he's probably just a bloody idiot rather than being racist. Most his brain cells probably destroyed by booze and drugs. Pretty much this, the guy really is an idiot. If he wasn't very good at 'kick ball chase ball', he would be known as 'That idiot that lives down the road'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, daylight said: Pretty much this, the guy really is an idiot. If he wasn't very good at 'kick ball chase ball', he would be known as 'That idiot that lives down the road'. You forgot "punch ball" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart91 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Forget the cigar. Old habits die hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratio Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 51 minuti fa, Neil Brock ha scritto: I think given his past behaviour that he's probably just a bloody idiot rather than being racist. Most his brain cells probably destroyed by booze and drugs. And probably by his friendship with Maduro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ratio said: And probably by his friendship with Maduro. Yes, he is super rich and yet he supports all socialist regimes, the same ones that ruined the lives of millions of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, PMLF said: Yes, he is super rich and yet he supports all socialist regimes, the same ones that ruined the lives of millions of people. You really gonna bring that into this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Heartwork said: You really gonna bring that into this? I wasn't the first one to mention it, I am just agreeing with the other comment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 what are the odds on him dying before Pele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon_84 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, GunmaN1905 said: Forget the cigar. Somebody point him to the hay fever thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said: Forget the cigar. Thought the same thing when I was watching. He should get the help he clearly needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 People writing off racism as 'just being an idiot'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 And here I thought Diego Maradonna Jr was meant to be the bastard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Yea I often show my mutual appreciation for people by drawing on blackface and making asian faces when it's someone who doesn't look like me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
av3ry Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Is he still scared of Terry Butcher and Peter Shilton? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 3 hours ago, PMLF said: Yes, he is super rich and yet he supports all socialist regimes, the same ones that ruined the lives of millions of people. Man does something racist. Let’s use this opportunity to moan about socialism! Was this done through racism or him being an idiot? I think (and hope) its the second. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Leave him alone his warm ups were well good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted June 17, 2018 Administrators Share Posted June 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Divinity said: People writing off racism as 'just being an idiot'. Did he do something racist? - Yes absolutely. Do I think he considers what he did racist and did it in such a way to purposely offend those he did it towards? - Probably not. Does doing the above mean he's an idiot? - Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, Neil Brock said: Did he do something racist? - Yes absolutely. Do I think he considers what he did racist and did it in such a way to purposely offend those he did it towards? - Probably not. Does doing the above mean he's an idiot? - Yes. No, doing racist acts makes you a racist. It also makes you an idiot. There doesn't need to be purposeful offence - the vast majority of racism is not. Don't change it to sound lesser than it is. As I said, you wouldn't dress up in blackface to demonstrate solidarity with black people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 That kind of gesture usually isn't regarded as racist in South America, I doubt he thought he was doing anything wrong. Not that he would care anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 It's actually a term of endearment in South America. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubos Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 **** off guys, it's Maradona and he can do what he wants. And I am Asian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 ora fa, PMLF ha scritto: That kind of gesture usually isn't regarded as racist in South America, I doubt he thought he was doing anything wrong. Unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore... Anything that the current "outrage culture" deems as offensive IS offensive regardless of the circumstances. Cultural absolutism at its finest... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, RBKalle said: Unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore... Anything that the current "outrage culture" deems as offensive IS offensive regardless of the circumstances. Cultural absolutism at its finest... Outrage culture? He did something racist. Whether he thought it was as racist as it was is up for debate, but it doesn’t make it any less racist. I completely understand that things in different cultures are more/less offensive (for example in Boston, a certain type of shop is called a packie - which sounds very similar to a very offensive word for people from the subcontinent. Plus the word c**t is less offensive in the UK than in the US although it is still offensive), but gestures such as this need to be stamped out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Can you do something racist without being a racist yourself? It's complicated but imho you probably can. It's not exactly something to be proud of, not knowing a gesture is racist through either your own stupidity or ignorance but still, doesn't necessarily make him a racist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveUK Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I would be interested to hear the South Koreans fans opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 What is up with South America though? Everything is not "seen as racist" over there or is a friendly term Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveUK Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Icondacarver said: What is up with South America though? Everything is not "seen as racist" over there or is a friendly term Shouldn't judge a continent of people by actions of a minority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Just now, SteveUK said: Shouldn't judge a continent of people by actions of a minority. If they are a minority, then that means the excuse is bull and it is not seen as a term of endearment. Also not judging the action but rather the fact that certain things are meant to be positive on that continent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 It's down to ignorance and lack of education rather than maliciousness though I found when in South America. Maybe a bit of tribalism too, they don't really like each other either but on a one to one basis some of the most friendly people I've ever met were on my South American travels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Weezer said: Can you do something racist without being a racist yourself? It's complicated but imho you probably can. It's not exactly something to be proud of, not knowing a gesture is racist through either your own stupidity or ignorance but still, doesn't necessarily make him a racist. Did he do something racist? Yes. Is he a racist? I don’t know. Is he a massive idiot regardless? Yes. Having lived and worked abroad, I can fully understand that what is seen in one country as normal can be offensive in another, but surely making this kind of gesture can’t be seen positively? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 15 minuti fa, mark1985 ha scritto: Outrage culture? He did something racist. Whether he thought it was as racist as it was is up for debate, but it doesn’t make it any less racist. I completely understand that things in different cultures are more/less offensive (for example in Boston, a certain type of shop is called a packie - which sounds very similar to a very offensive word for people from the subcontinent. Plus the word c**t is less offensive in the UK than in the US although it is still offensive), but gestures such as this need to be stamped out. Those two sentences are almost mutually exclusive. Cultural context isn't something we can ignore. Some stuff is offensive in one place and completely harmless in another due to cultural, social and historical differences. Just because American and British cultures are guilt-ridden due to their less than immaculate past (and not-so-past), it doesn't mean the whole world must be judged with their rules. "Your" racism is not the same as "their" racism, because countries and continents have different history and cultures. "Asian eyes" have been a common gesture in many places without it being seen as anything but harmless fun, in a "how'd I look like if I were Chinese?" way. It becomes racist only if you add a lot of subtext to it. But in countries with minimal Asian presence, how can it be offensive? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Having spent a lot of time in China in the last 3 years I don't think any of them would be offended by the 'slitty-eyed' thing. It's not something I'd do myself but the ones that are more culturally aware would just laugh it off imho. *Obviously I don't speak for all Chinese people! But the ones I have dealt with are fairly high status or more culturally aware (my girlfriend works in a very expensive international school in Shanghai) than the average mainlander and they'd take the pee out of themselves for it too tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Yeah, agreed with Kalle. The art of getting offended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius_R Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 They`re making a big deal out of it because it`s been done by Maradona. If it was Vasilyi, an average Spartak Moscow fan, doing it, nobody would`ve given a crap about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, RBKalle said: Those two sentences are almost mutually exclusive. Cultural context isn't something we can ignore. Some stuff is offensive in one place and completely harmless in another due to cultural, social and historical differences. Just because American and British cultures are guilt-ridden due to their less than immaculate past (and not-so-past), it doesn't mean the whole world must be judged with their rules. "Your" racism is not the same as "their" racism, because countries and continents have different history and cultures. "Asian eyes" have been a common gesture in many places without it being seen as anything but harmless fun, in a "how'd I look like if I were Chinese?" way. It becomes racist only if you add a lot of subtext to it. But in countries with minimal Asian presence, how can it be offensive? So by that logic, places with a minimal black population should be allowed to use the n word and other racial slurs towards black people? Same with south Asian or subcontinent populations. Only a few generations ago, all this stuff was completely normal in the UK as well but luckily it’s reducing (or at least being called out). Despite each country having different forms of racism (different offensive words towards different groups) it’s all wrong. And also by your logic, if I say or do something offensive to you and you tell me it’s offensive, can I just disregard your opinion because I was having a bit of harmless fun? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypaul Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, Icondacarver said: What is up with South America though? Everything is not "seen as racist" over there or is a friendly term Places that aren't racist by and large are basically in North America, Western Europe and Australasia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Weezer said: Having spent a lot of time in China in the last 3 years I don't think any of them would be offended by the 'slitty-eyed' thing. It's not something I'd do myself but the ones that are more culturally aware would just laugh it off imho. *Obviously I don't speak for all Chinese people! But the ones I have dealt with are fairly high status or more culturally aware (my girlfriend works in a very expensive international school in Shanghai) than the average mainlander and they'd take the pee out of themselves for it too tbf Is this 100% an assumption or have you tried it to see their reaction? Or did you simply ask your high status culturally aware friends? My girlfriend is Chinese and I am sat with her whole family for fathers day, I just told them about the Maradona thing....let us just say it was universal that they thought he was an idiot and they would be annoyed if present when he did. What this proves is the offensiveness is dependant on the receivers. Maradona is an idiot and yes certain actions are not seen as racist in parts of the world. That I fully agree, but this act of always trying to assume or decide what the receiving party would find offensive is garbage. Only the individual can tell how they would feel and unless you entered their mind you can't say with any certainty. People seem to always think that others should/would laugh stuff off but never ask why with all the safe banter in the world some people always go for the culturally risky & potentially offensive stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Crispypaul said: Places that aren't racist by and large are basically in North America, Western Europe and Australasia. Tbh, I was not calling them racist but they seem to have a knack of claiming that some of the racist behaviours have a different meaning to them. Other known racial hotspots at least seem to acknowledge their racism, Russian fans do not claim bananas on the pitch are a sign of endearment or the player lacks calcium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Even if Maradona didn't think it was racist,I'm not sure how you would think that it was an appropriate thing to do? Surely you wouldn't think anyone could interpret that as 'oh he loves East Asia!' That said, I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he says he'll make sure to be more culturally sensitive in future or sth, it's possible he thought it was bantery rather than insulting. I initially thought as an international celebrity he'd be more aware anyway but then Griezmann did what he did last season so who knows. Edit: for the avoidance of doubt the 'term of endearment' comment from me was a reference to the Suarez excuse, I'm not claiming it's true @Icondacarver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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