Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[janrzm]

53 minutes ago, FMpufc said:

Manager movements in England in my save are incredibly unrealistic too. Why is jesse marsch taking the job at carlisle who are sitting just outside the L1 relegation zone? I can understand sometimes managers would take a step down and some big scalps happen in the manager market but this simply would never happen. When teams are looking for a manager in Engladn at least it seems as if they are solely judging on reputation/past trophies won etc. I have seen numerous examples of managers of teams who are lower half/relegation battling (which is either on par or slightly below media predictions of where they would finish) yet they get poached for jobs from teams in the league above. 

You should post this in the bug section and your other observations. JM is still at least 4 seasons away from considering the Carlisle job..... Seriously though, please raise it. 

[phnompenhandy]

8 hours ago, coysti said:

Dear Directors of FM,

is it possible to request my hometown football club "SV 07 Linden" to implement in the database? They played 2001-02 in the highest amateur league in Lower Saxony (Niedersachsenliga West).

Best regards!

Check out the Editors' Hideaway forum. Someone will be working on a lower league German database

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/860-editors-hideaway-download-forum-fm23/

[Nessaja Wolf]

7 hours ago, FMpufc said:

 

Manager movements in England in my save are incredibly unrealistic too. Why is jesse marsch taking the job at carlisle who are sitting just outside the L1 relegation zone? I can understand sometimes managers would take a step down and some big scalps happen in the manager market but this simply would never happen. When teams are looking for a manager in Engladn at least it seems as if they are solely judging on reputation/past trophies won etc. I have seen numerous examples of managers of teams who are lower half/relegation battling (which is either on par or slightly below media predictions of where they would finish) yet they get poached for jobs from teams in the league above. 

 

I also noticed in my save game with Charlton, that League One bottom club Port Vale managed to convince Ole Gunnar Soljskaer to take charge..... (in the first season)

[Dadecane]

3 hours ago, Nessaja Wolf said:

I also noticed in my save game with Charlton, that League One bottom club Port Vale managed to convince Ole Gunnar Soljskaer to take charge..... (in the first season)

I think the issue here may be that the top managers who are unemployed to start the game seem to take any quick job offer they receive instead of simply waiting on the ones theyd consider IRL. Also the small club IRL probably doesnt even offer Ole Gunnar cuz they know he wont consider them but in FM they “dont know” that it seems. 

[iownyou]

What is with this game and ‘takeovers’. Every five minutes there’s a takeover. Even at completely unrealistic clubs like Villa and Bournemouth. Really needs to be toned down.

[The About Average Jake]

5 hours ago, Nessaja Wolf said:

I also noticed in my save game with Charlton, that League One bottom club Port Vale managed to convince Ole Gunnar Soljskaer to take charge..... (in the first season)

I'd say he's found his level.

[tropicsafc]

2 hours ago, iownyou said:

What is with this game and ‘takeovers’. Every five minutes there’s a takeover. Even at completely unrealistic clubs like Villa and Bournemouth. Really needs to be toned down.

Fair enough if you think there's too many but it's completely ridiculous to say Villa and Bournemouth would be unrealistic. I don't think there are any teams I'd consider to be unrealistic for a takeover, at all, anywhere.

[jayedson]

Not a bug and not a feature request as such and has probably been brought up a few times before but would be good if the DoF transfer suggestions could be a bit smarter.

I have a maximum advised wage of 13k per week according to my budget but asking my DoF for CB suggestions, I am given a range of options, most of which earn much much more than that (highest suggestion was on 73k per week).

His DoF stats are 12/12/12 (JPA/JPP/Negotiating) just out of interest, but even an incredibly poor DoF shouldn't suggest players way out of reach financially, they should maybe just offer weaker players than a really top DoF would.

In the past I've also had to abandon it as an option where I've already reached squad quota of non-EU or non-domestic players but all DoF suggestions are non-EU / non-domestic so cannot be pursued. The logic behind the suggestions just needs to take squad rules and wage budget into account more than it currently does (or offer more criteria - so ask the DoF for domestic transfer suggestions).

[The About Average Jake]

I think I need a break from this game. For my own mental wellbeing if nothing else. 

You could say that I'm "Jaded" and "in need of a rest".

When the fun stops, STOP!

 

[SynergyIso7]

Can I add Everton's point deduction to an existing save?

[jam jameson]

After reading so many posts of feedback, and after playing a dozen of careers in different countries with different teams at different level, my own feedback...FM24 ME is amazing to watch, IMO the best ever; very addicting, never boring or 'arcade', a real improvement. The big big big issue (a game-breaking issue) is that simply I CAN'T LOSE...I've created my tactic from scratch, thus NO DEFAULT GEGENPRESS, but...from relegation candidates to title favourites, I simply can't lose...played around 200 matches in the different careers, lost 5 matches, drawn 15, won everything else...of course something is broken and of course this something ruins the whole game experience, to the extent that I'm planning to stop any effort waiting for the promised update of December...

[The About Average Jake]

2 minutes ago, jam jameson said:

After reading so many posts of feedback, and after playing a dozen of careers in different countries with different teams at different level, my own feedback...FM24 ME is amazing to watch, IMO the best ever; very addicting, never boring or 'arcade', a real improvement. The big big big issue (a game-breaking issue) is that simply I CAN'T LOSE...I've created my tactic from scratch, thus NO DEFAULT GEGENPRESS, but...from relegation candidates to title favourites, I simply can't lose...played around 200 matches in the different careers, lost 5 matches, drawn 15, won everything else...of course something is broken and of course this something ruins the whole game experience, to the extent that I'm planning to stop any effort waiting for the promised update of December...

Share the love, can't buy a win at the moment 

[diLLa88]

[Pasonen]

Worried player. Have you seen AI transfer listing its players? I have simulated 6 months and I don't see any transferlists  in any team? I will continue simulating but still somewhat worrying that full U21 and first teams there's 95% not transferlisted.

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Pasonen
video

[Micks112]

Only 10 in the cup final 
If the high scoring games aren't adjusted in the next patch I don't know what.

[autohoratio]

4 hours ago, jayedson said:

Not a bug and not a feature request as such and has probably been brought up a few times before but would be good if the DoF transfer suggestions could be a bit smarter.

I have a maximum advised wage of 13k per week according to my budget but asking my DoF for CB suggestions, I am given a range of options, most of which earn much much more than that (highest suggestion was on 73k per week).

His DoF stats are 12/12/12 (JPA/JPP/Negotiating) just out of interest, but even an incredibly poor DoF shouldn't suggest players way out of reach financially, they should maybe just offer weaker players than a really top DoF would.

In the past I've also had to abandon it as an option where I've already reached squad quota of non-EU or non-domestic players but all DoF suggestions are non-EU / non-domestic so cannot be pursued. The logic behind the suggestions just needs to take squad rules and wage budget into account more than it currently does (or offer more criteria - so ask the DoF for domestic transfer suggestions).

The DoF also operates on their own separate player knowledge system to the rest of the scouting team, which I've always found funny. You ask them to suggest a transfer target and you'll be given a list of players you have 0% scouting knowledge of 

[iownyou]

4 hours ago, tropicsafc said:

Fair enough if you think there's too many but it's completely ridiculous to say Villa and Bournemouth would be unrealistic. I don't think there are any teams I'd consider to be unrealistic for a takeover, at all, anywhere.

Except they are. I’m two seasons in. I’d say it’s very unrealistic to suggest Bournemouth will have new owners having gotten new owners less than a year ago. Or in the case of villa where the club are flying, owners are very wealthy and have heavily invested. It’s quite obvious some clubs are far less likely to have a takeover than others. There’s not really a point to argue here. 

[Freakiie]

22 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

The DoF also operates on their own separate player knowledge system to the rest of the scouting team, which I've always found funny. You ask them to suggest a transfer target and you'll be given a list of players you have 0% scouting knowledge of 

Most DoFs will have a bit of their own network, so them coming up with suggestions outside of your scouting network isn't that strange. They definitely should come with at least some scouting knowledge though.

[Pasonen]

Maybe I'm too old school and hands on manager but I still find odd that there's 4 days left Premier league winter Transfer window in my simulation and it doesn't show any increase in AI teams Transfer statuses. Do they work via some other staff member like Director of football or Recruitment analyst? Or do they just hoard massive amounts of players? 

[makavali]

1 hour ago, Micks112 said:

Only 10 in the cup final 
If the high scoring games aren't adjusted in the next patch I don't know what.

This one took me out. I truly don't understand how there still isn't a hotfix for this issue. Mind-boggling. 

[themadsheep2001]

42 minutes ago, makavali said:

This one took me out. I truly don't understand how there still isn't a hotfix for this issue. Mind-boggling. 

Probably because it requires more than a hotfix. And and if needs to be rolled out across all versions, it requires different and longer submissions processes on non pc platforms. 

[makavali]

32 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Probably because it requires more than a hotfix. And and if needs to be rolled out across all versions, it requires different and longer submissions processes on non pc platforms. 

Fair enough, that's completely understandable, but the game has been out since late October and there has been a patch already. In my opinion, this issue should've been a priority. 

Thanks for your input. 

[g1nh0]

3 hours ago, Micks112 said:

Only 10 in the cup final 
If the high scoring games aren't adjusted in the next patch I don't know what.

OH, EM, GEE

[themadsheep2001]

20 minutes ago, makavali said:

Fair enough, that's completely understandable, but the game has been out since late October and there has been a patch already. In my opinion, this issue should've been a priority. 

Thanks for your input. 

It will be a likely priority, but doesnt mean it will quick, if that makes sense? If you're making other changes to the match engine in general, for example defensive issues, and work around throw ins, there's going to be knock ons there. So its not as simple as tweaking goals/finishing on their own. 

If you for example, dropped finishing on its own as a hotfix, even if you could, the moment you dropped a later patch with other ME changes, goals would be all over the place, under or over. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, Freakiie said:

Most DoFs will have a bit of their own network, so them coming up with suggestions outside of your scouting network isn't that strange. They definitely should come with at least some scouting knowledge though.

I feel like most of their signings come strictly from their own network. They never pull from the pool of scouted players. At least that have been my experience. They probably do use their attributes but if their network is full of crap players then i guess that is what you get.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Mars_Blackmon

[SaintEtienne]

Long feedback from a long-time lurker…

Some context:

1. I’m currently in a (hopefully) long journeyman save. The first seven seasons (starting as unemployed, then rising from Vanarama South to the Premier League via three clubs) were played on FM23. After gaining promotion to the PL with Portsmouth, I imported the save to FM24 and have subsequently played three seasons in PL before getting the job as Borussia Dortmund manager.

2. I’ve played a lot of FM over the past five years, so I have a fair experience to compare FM24 with.

3. I tend to play slowly and micromanage (I do all press conferences, interact with players as much as possible, and take charge of training, player development, and transfers). I’m also a clean-slate tactics player: I design tactics from scratch based on certain ideas that appeal to me, the players I have, my overall squad standard, and particular situations. I don’t generally use intense and high pressing approaches, but occasionally I adopt such ideas.

My feedback is a mixed bag…

Match engine

This is the best ME I’ve ever seen in FM. I use extended highlights as a minimum (and occasionally use comprehensive or full match), and I really like what I see.

The animations are great, but more importantly I actually feel (far more than in previous versions) that I can see my tactical ideas and tweaks play out on the pitch. I see plenty of contested possession (not as much ‘chaos’ as on FM23, but it still seems to be there) and a good variety of goals.

Set pieces do feature a little too prominently in highlights, and I think the last goal from a direct free kick I’ve seen was on FM23. I’ve even got to the point of hoping to concede one from direct free kick, just so I know that scoring from them is still possible in the game…

Player positioning and overall movement are much improved. I have seen no problem with defensive play; certainly, I see defensive mistakes, but even the best defenders make occasional mistakes IRL. What I don’t see is any fundamental issue with defending in the game: in my save, defenders do what I expect them to do (poor defenders make fairly regular mistakes, good defenders make only occasional mistakes).

Similarly, goalkeepers appear fine in my save. My GK regularly pulls off important saves and puts in fine performances, and I’ve been denied wins by outstanding opposition GK performances. Of course, I see mistakes, but again I would expect this IRL, and they tend to be in line with the quality of the GK.

SI trumpeted improved lighting (and it looked great on one of their marketing videos). I see no evidence that it has actually been implemented (the lighting actually seems worse to me, as if most matches are played in a very light mist).

The issue of pre-match and half-time team talks having no effect on body language is strange, but my experience tells me this is a visual issue and that my team talks do have an effect on players’ morale (but clearly this needs fixing).

Too many goals?

Not in my save (but I don’t dispute that this is an issue some users have encountered). I’ve found the number of goals to be extremely realistic across my three FM24 seasons. In about 160 matches played on FM24, I’ve only been involved in five matches with more than six goals: a wild, rollercoaster 4-4 at Fulham, a 7-1 win against one of the weakest teams in the league, a 4-3 epic win over Man Utd, a 5-2 win over Chelsea in an FA Cup semi-final (but that was after extra time), and a 5-2 win over relegation favourites Bochum in the Bundesliga. I’ve had a fair few 4-2 and 3-2 results, a nice sprinkling of 3-3 and 2-2 draws, but also plenty of low-scoring matches (most of them) and what seems to be the right amount of goalless draws.

Similarly, I’m not seeing excessive goals in the divisions I’ve played in. It all looks realistic to me. In my final PL season, there were a lot of high-scoring matches involving Crystal Palace and Nottingham Forest, two of the weakest teams in the league, both playing 442 (as someone else has pointed out, it becomes close to a 406 in transition, so they are horribly exposed on the counter). They each shipped about 100 goals. My issue here is not with the tactic (it works, but it is maybe not the best with a weak team); it is with the AI managers persisting with it for 38 matches.

In my current Bundesliga season my results have been: 0-2, 0-1, 3-1, 1-0, 5-2, 2-0, 1-1, 1-0, 1-0. In CL they have been: 3-0, 0-1, 0-4. If anything, given I’m playing a fairly aggressive tactic with BVB and have a strong squad, I’m actually struggling to score goals.

And I find it perfectly possible to play defensively. I achieved a good number of fine performances and results playing a low block, cautious, counterattacking style in many PL matches. In my current season, we lost 1-0 at Bayern in a pleasingly drab match of congested midfield (that was my plan – it was undone by one moment of individual brilliance).

So, my experience clearly differs from that of some others. That makes me think this is not a universal ‘bug’ (but I have a lot of sympathy with those experiencing it, because I would hate that). Obviously, I hope the ME is improved, but I really would not welcome changes that mean binary scores are the norm.

Is it too easy?

Again, not in my experience. I quickly climbed the leagues in FM23 (smashing Leagues One and Two, winning a couple of PJTs on the way, and getting promotion to PL at my first attempt with Portsmouth). In the PL with Portsmouth, I overachieved, but I hardly pulled up any trees: 12th, 12th and 9th were my three finishes (but we did reach three domestic cup finals, and I won the FA Cup in my final match in charge). If anything, I’m actually finding FM24 harder than FMs 21, 22 and 23, but that makes it a particularly satisfying experience trying to work out how to get to the next level.

AI managers

Despite SI claims, I don’t see any evidence of improvements to the AI.

Substitutions: I see the AI managers frequently make substitutions, but usually only very late in the match. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an AI manager (in this or any other FM version) do what I do: routinely make aggressive substitutions from 55 minutes (and half-time sometimes) onwards.

Squad building: I haven’t got deep enough to judge this. But my impression is that the terrible AI squad building of previous versions remains terrible. Anyway, I’m conflicted about this. On the one hand, I want realism and a challenge. On the other, I also want to have a realistic chance of some glory during my saves, so I don’t mind that the AI is a long way below Klopp and Pep levels. On balance, I find the current level of AI (in)competency works for me as someone who is pretty good (but not great) at the game, who plays realistically, and who wants to have a reasonable chance of winning things during my save.

That said, some lack of logic really needs addressing. Man Utd took my best defender (50m on a release clause) from me and have left him to rot in the reserves for two seasons. PSG beat me to a couple of wonderkids and left them to rot in the reserves. Really good regens are underplayed and ignored by international managers, and hardly any regens appear in any awards. These have been longstanding issues in FM, and it’s really disappointing that nothing appears to have been done to address them for years.

Interactions, press conferences, interviews

I haven’t had any problems with interactions (no team meltdowns, etc.), but my reputation is now quite high, I’ve long figured out how to navigate most of the exchanges, and I put quite a lot of effort into building good relationships with my players. But I don’t see any evidence that an area of the game that has always been weak has got any better.

The logic is still often bizarre. My pet hate is the juvenile wording of many exchanges: would a board really tell me to “stop wasting their” time if I dare to suggest a club improvement? Would a player really tell their manager that they don’t think they can drop my treatment of them (praising their performance)? Some of this stuff is embarrassingly bad; it’s been in the game for years, and it’s still there.

Press conferences and job interviews are still rubbish. Dealing with the press is such a big part of a manager’s job, so it is disappointing that this area of the game has been so poor for so long. Every year I hope some improvements are made; every year I’m disappointed.

Other things

Set-piece creator: I like this a lot, and it’s a vast improvement on anything FM had previously.

Injuries: I haven’t noticed anything weird. I have had GK injuries, but nothing unrealistic. I experienced a couple of injury crises with Portsmouth, and I realised I was probably being too intense with my training schedules. I’m not complaining: if anything, the game could have more injuries (I build squads based on likelihood of injuries, and then squad and fringe players don’t get enough playing time because I never get nearly as many injuries as I anticipated). But the balance is probably right as it is.

Overall

The claims that this is the “most polished” version of FM24 ever and that this version is a “love letter” to FM are ridiculously overblown marketing guff. The bloat of previous years remains, and most issues that have been around for ages (rubbish interactions; terrible press conferences; illogical AI squad building; supporters giving their manager a C+ despite five years of extraordinary success; the board being “devastated” because we haven’t scored enough goals from set pieces; managers threatening to recall a player from loan because I used him as a DF rather than as a PF; terrible stadiums – no Yellow Wall at BVB; and a host of other stupid stuff) are still there. I still love the game, but I long ago abandoned any idea that SI thought such things were worth fixing (as opposed to introducing manager timelines, squad planners, and face paint). My guess is that these are areas that need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

However, I’ve been playing FM24 a lot and having a great, fun time with it. This is largely because of the ME. I’d go so far as to say that this is the best version of FM that I have played. Naturally, a patch that fixes bugs and improves the game is desirable, but in general I’m finding the game as it stands to be in good shape, so I’m hoping there aren’t any dramatic changes that mess too much with an ME that seems to me to be extremely good.

[rdbayly]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

there's going to be knock ons 

 

I bet the frustration of users on this thread is completely eclipsed by that of the developers. If they themselves cannot deliver their own vision for the simulation due to these knock-on effects, I bet they wished that they had a completely new set of tools to refine the match engine.

I truly wish that the ME code was compartmentalised or ring fenced. For example, in such a scenario, making changes to defending set pieces wouldn't affect 1 v 1 finishing at the other end.

It's completely mad to someone like me who has zero knowledge of how this game works that an entire team has to burn the midnight oil for weeks and months to eliminate such basic problems. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by rdbayly

[Mike_G25]

I honestly don't think I've felt this way about an FM game before. I've been playing for 20 years and the bug around squad depth is so deflating and infuriating it's ruined my save.

Outside of the bug, I've been really enjoying FM24 but this issue is so big, I've had to sell some key first team players just to get around the problem which I shouldn't have to do. I don't want to touch the game until there's a fix which is a whole new experience for me. 

To say I'm disappointed is a huge understatement.

 

[bobbyb12345]

2 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I bet the frustration of users on this thread is completely eclipsed by that of the developers. If they themselves cannot deliver their own vision for the simulation due to these knock-on effects, I bet they wished that they had a completely new set of tools to refine the match engine.

I truly wish that the ME code was compartmentalised or ring fenced. For example, In such a scenario, making changes to defending set pieces wouldn't affect 1 v 1 finishing at the other end.

It's completely mad to someone like me who has zero knowledge of how this game works that an entire team has to burn the midnight oil for weeks and months to eliminate such basic problems. 

The bit I don’t get… there isn’t loads of goals for a reason, that issue is, in itself, a “knock on”, yet one either they never spotted or were happy to go to release with anyway.

[Freakiie]

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I feel like most of their signings come strictly from their own network. They never pull from the pool of scouted players. At least that have been my experience. They probably do use their attributes but if their network is full of crap players then i guess that is what you get.

Not really my experience with my DoF this version. Since my team is broke I'm heavily relying on free transfers, which obviously leaves me with a rather limited pool and a lot of the free transfer suggestions my DoF gives me are players I already scouted. And a lot of Colombian players, despite neither him nor my club having any scouting knowledge in that region.

[themadsheep2001]

36 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I bet the frustration of users on this thread is completely eclipsed by that of the developers. If they themselves cannot deliver their own vision for the simulation due to these knock-on effects, I bet they wished that they had a completely new set of tools to refine the match engine.

I truly wish that the ME code was compartmentalised or ring fenced. For example, in such a scenario, making changes to defending set pieces wouldn't affect 1 v 1 finishing at the other end.

It's completely mad to someone like me who has zero knowledge of how this game works that an entire team has to burn the midnight oil for weeks and months to eliminate such basic problems. 

A new set of tools arent going to change that because the ME is always going to be interconnected. Far from a basic problem. 

Its not about changing one 1v1 finishing If you have better defensive play, you have less shots, there for less goals. If you tighten up defence you have lese high quality shots and less goals

[Freakiie]

Meanwhile, in the category "player interactions are fun";

Hoffenheim comes in for my goalie during the winter. Now the Bundesliga is a mess and Hoffenheim are actually a subtop club in Germany, that qualified for the CL, so my goalie wants to leave to get a chance to play in the CL. Understandable.

I then ask him what I could do to make him stay.

His reaction? He will never win silverware at our club, so it's impossible to entice him to stay. While saying this, he is gleefully staring at his winners medal for the Danish Cup we won last season, but yeah, no silverware. Lets also ignore the part where we are in the semifinals this season and top of the league, but trust me, silverware won't happen.

At Hoffenheim though? Just ignore the part where the only thing they ever won is a single Conference League, 13 years ago, but surely silverware is guaranteed there!

So, obviously I promise him that we will win silverware at our club, he is happy and then you realize that's not an option in the conversation. Would make too much sense I guess? I also can't promise him that we will qualify for the CL, despite that being his original complaint.

Nope, I have 2 promises regarding selling him to Hoffenheim, one option to tell him I'm buying epic players, which with my funds isn't happening or some spiel about amazing youth players coming through. He didn't buy that last one.

But, he is now perfectly happy waiting for a transfer offer that's almost 4 times as high as the Hoffenheim offer, so I get the feeling he will be sticking around.

 

[rdbayly]

20 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

A new set of tools arent going to change that because the ME is always going to be interconnected. Far from a basic problem. 

Its not about changing one 1v1 finishing If you have better defensive play, you have less shots, there for less goals. If you tighten up defence you have lese high quality shots and less goals

I plucked defending set pieces and finishing at the other end out of thin air to demonstrate how utterly mystifying these interconnected knock on effects are to players of the game.

For all we know, reducing the tendency of goalkeepers to punch crosses away will raise the price of hotdogs in the away end.

Edited November 23, 2023 by rdbayly

[themadsheep2001]

18 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I plucked defending set pieces and finishing at the other end out of thin air to demonstrate how utterly mystifying these interconnected knock on effects are to players of the game.

For all we know, reducing the tendency of goalkeepers to punch crosses away will raise the price of hotdogs in the away end.

But they arent mystifying if you use actual examples that interconnect, rather than trying to demonstrate a point that isn't accurate with random factors. Its not particularly helpful when trying to explain to someone else why one issue might be deeper than it looks

[rdbayly]

Mate, if the developers are having difficulty in sorting a fix for why the AI suddenly refuses to make appropriate subs or rotate their teams, I don't think you can claim that this game isn't mystifying.

Anyway, I'll leave it there.

[themadsheep2001]

15 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

Mate, if the developers are having difficulty in sorting a fix for why the AI suddenly refuses to make appropriate subs or rotate their teams, I don't think you can claim that this game isn't mystifying.

Anyway, I'll leave it there.

But i didnt make any claim in regards to that, i didnt even mention it. I was responding to why trying to balance goals requires more than a hotfix. Not related at all to what you just said. Please do as its simply muddying the waters for no reason 

[The About Average Jake]

8 hours ago, Micks112 said:

Only 10 in the cup final 
If the high scoring games aren't adjusted in the next patch I don't know what.

I have the opposite issue.

High xG in most games and not scoring goals.

Or only scoring one and conceding late on.

Or no chances created at all. There's no consistency with the tactics. My first impressions of the ME was positive, but now I'm not so sure.

I've got Haaland and 3 seasons in and he can't even hit the target, let alone score. 

[Arnar]

I loved the game in early access.

I see too many mistakes from my players, while opponents seem to make little to no mistakes against me.

I see the same goals over and over.

Free kick in the middle of the pitch, headed away straight to the set piece taker who either runs in to the box and scores or he passes to a player on the edge of the box who is unmarked and scores.

Ball gets cleared after a corner or a set piece out wide to a player who the puts it into the top corner.

Players just deciding to pass the ball to a player on the other side of the pitch straight to a player who runs through and scores.

Center backs just ignoring the striker who runs in behind them and scores, my player usually are called offside in the rare occasion they  make the same run.

My gks are always underperform on the expected goals prevented and in save percentence. I have a 4 star gk for the league im in.

I dont see the point in II teams in germany they never play a game and are semi professional and my backroom staff pester me with wanting to promote player to the II team.

I have taken a team from 3 Liga to bundesliga in 3 seasons and im not even a favorite person.

The scouting center is a choir, you need to really tinker with it, so you dont get the same players who are on the shortlist in every scouting update.

Intermidiate suggestions on players who are on my not interested list.

Since the first season some team go on mid season break, mine hasnt gone in 2 years.

[paracoolo]

8 hours ago, SaintEtienne said:

Long feedback from a long-time lurker…

Some context:

1. I’m currently in a (hopefully) long journeyman save. The first seven seasons (starting as unemployed, then rising from Vanarama South to the Premier League via three clubs) were played on FM23. After gaining promotion to the PL with Portsmouth, I imported the save to FM24 and have subsequently played three seasons in PL before getting the job as Borussia Dortmund manager.

2. I’ve played a lot of FM over the past five years, so I have a fair experience to compare FM24 with.

3. I tend to play slowly and micromanage (I do all press conferences, interact with players as much as possible, and take charge of training, player development, and transfers). I’m also a clean-slate tactics player: I design tactics from scratch based on certain ideas that appeal to me, the players I have, my overall squad standard, and particular situations. I don’t generally use intense and high pressing approaches, but occasionally I adopt such ideas.

My feedback is a mixed bag…

Match engine

This is the best ME I’ve ever seen in FM. I use extended highlights as a minimum (and occasionally use comprehensive or full match), and I really like what I see.

The animations are great, but more importantly I actually feel (far more than in previous versions) that I can see my tactical ideas and tweaks play out on the pitch. I see plenty of contested possession (not as much ‘chaos’ as on FM23, but it still seems to be there) and a good variety of goals.

Set pieces do feature a little too prominently in highlights, and I think the last goal from a direct free kick I’ve seen was on FM23. I’ve even got to the point of hoping to concede one from direct free kick, just so I know that scoring from them is still possible in the game…

Player positioning and overall movement are much improved. I have seen no problem with defensive play; certainly, I see defensive mistakes, but even the best defenders make occasional mistakes IRL. What I don’t see is any fundamental issue with defending in the game: in my save, defenders do what I expect them to do (poor defenders make fairly regular mistakes, good defenders make only occasional mistakes).

Similarly, goalkeepers appear fine in my save. My GK regularly pulls off important saves and puts in fine performances, and I’ve been denied wins by outstanding opposition GK performances. Of course, I see mistakes, but again I would expect this IRL, and they tend to be in line with the quality of the GK.

SI trumpeted improved lighting (and it looked great on one of their marketing videos). I see no evidence that it has actually been implemented (the lighting actually seems worse to me, as if most matches are played in a very light mist).

The issue of pre-match and half-time team talks having no effect on body language is strange, but my experience tells me this is a visual issue and that my team talks do have an effect on players’ morale (but clearly this needs fixing).

Too many goals?

Not in my save (but I don’t dispute that this is an issue some users have encountered). I’ve found the number of goals to be extremely realistic across my three FM24 seasons. In about 160 matches played on FM24, I’ve only been involved in five matches with more than six goals: a wild, rollercoaster 4-4 at Fulham, a 7-1 win against one of the weakest teams in the league, a 4-3 epic win over Man Utd, a 5-2 win over Chelsea in an FA Cup semi-final (but that was after extra time), and a 5-2 win over relegation favourites Bochum in the Bundesliga. I’ve had a fair few 4-2 and 3-2 results, a nice sprinkling of 3-3 and 2-2 draws, but also plenty of low-scoring matches (most of them) and what seems to be the right amount of goalless draws.

Similarly, I’m not seeing excessive goals in the divisions I’ve played in. It all looks realistic to me. In my final PL season, there were a lot of high-scoring matches involving Crystal Palace and Nottingham Forest, two of the weakest teams in the league, both playing 442 (as someone else has pointed out, it becomes close to a 406 in transition, so they are horribly exposed on the counter). They each shipped about 100 goals. My issue here is not with the tactic (it works, but it is maybe not the best with a weak team); it is with the AI managers persisting with it for 38 matches.

In my current Bundesliga season my results have been: 0-2, 0-1, 3-1, 1-0, 5-2, 2-0, 1-1, 1-0, 1-0. In CL they have been: 3-0, 0-1, 0-4. If anything, given I’m playing a fairly aggressive tactic with BVB and have a strong squad, I’m actually struggling to score goals.

And I find it perfectly possible to play defensively. I achieved a good number of fine performances and results playing a low block, cautious, counterattacking style in many PL matches. In my current season, we lost 1-0 at Bayern in a pleasingly drab match of congested midfield (that was my plan – it was undone by one moment of individual brilliance).

So, my experience clearly differs from that of some others. That makes me think this is not a universal ‘bug’ (but I have a lot of sympathy with those experiencing it, because I would hate that). Obviously, I hope the ME is improved, but I really would not welcome changes that mean binary scores are the norm.

Is it too easy?

Again, not in my experience. I quickly climbed the leagues in FM23 (smashing Leagues One and Two, winning a couple of PJTs on the way, and getting promotion to PL at my first attempt with Portsmouth). In the PL with Portsmouth, I overachieved, but I hardly pulled up any trees: 12th, 12th and 9th were my three finishes (but we did reach three domestic cup finals, and I won the FA Cup in my final match in charge). If anything, I’m actually finding FM24 harder than FMs 21, 22 and 23, but that makes it a particularly satisfying experience trying to work out how to get to the next level.

AI managers

Despite SI claims, I don’t see any evidence of improvements to the AI.

Substitutions: I see the AI managers frequently make substitutions, but usually only very late in the match. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an AI manager (in this or any other FM version) do what I do: routinely make aggressive substitutions from 55 minutes (and half-time sometimes) onwards.

Squad building: I haven’t got deep enough to judge this. But my impression is that the terrible AI squad building of previous versions remains terrible. Anyway, I’m conflicted about this. On the one hand, I want realism and a challenge. On the other, I also want to have a realistic chance of some glory during my saves, so I don’t mind that the AI is a long way below Klopp and Pep levels. On balance, I find the current level of AI (in)competency works for me as someone who is pretty good (but not great) at the game, who plays realistically, and who wants to have a reasonable chance of winning things during my save.

That said, some lack of logic really needs addressing. Man Utd took my best defender (50m on a release clause) from me and have left him to rot in the reserves for two seasons. PSG beat me to a couple of wonderkids and left them to rot in the reserves. Really good regens are underplayed and ignored by international managers, and hardly any regens appear in any awards. These have been longstanding issues in FM, and it’s really disappointing that nothing appears to have been done to address them for years.

Interactions, press conferences, interviews

I haven’t had any problems with interactions (no team meltdowns, etc.), but my reputation is now quite high, I’ve long figured out how to navigate most of the exchanges, and I put quite a lot of effort into building good relationships with my players. But I don’t see any evidence that an area of the game that has always been weak has got any better.

The logic is still often bizarre. My pet hate is the juvenile wording of many exchanges: would a board really tell me to “stop wasting their” time if I dare to suggest a club improvement? Would a player really tell their manager that they don’t think they can drop my treatment of them (praising their performance)? Some of this stuff is embarrassingly bad; it’s been in the game for years, and it’s still there.

Press conferences and job interviews are still rubbish. Dealing with the press is such a big part of a manager’s job, so it is disappointing that this area of the game has been so poor for so long. Every year I hope some improvements are made; every year I’m disappointed.

Other things

Set-piece creator: I like this a lot, and it’s a vast improvement on anything FM had previously.

Injuries: I haven’t noticed anything weird. I have had GK injuries, but nothing unrealistic. I experienced a couple of injury crises with Portsmouth, and I realised I was probably being too intense with my training schedules. I’m not complaining: if anything, the game could have more injuries (I build squads based on likelihood of injuries, and then squad and fringe players don’t get enough playing time because I never get nearly as many injuries as I anticipated). But the balance is probably right as it is.

Overall

The claims that this is the “most polished” version of FM24 ever and that this version is a “love letter” to FM are ridiculously overblown marketing guff. The bloat of previous years remains, and most issues that have been around for ages (rubbish interactions; terrible press conferences; illogical AI squad building; supporters giving their manager a C+ despite five years of extraordinary success; the board being “devastated” because we haven’t scored enough goals from set pieces; managers threatening to recall a player from loan because I used him as a DF rather than as a PF; terrible stadiums – no Yellow Wall at BVB; and a host of other stupid stuff) are still there. I still love the game, but I long ago abandoned any idea that SI thought such things were worth fixing (as opposed to introducing manager timelines, squad planners, and face paint). My guess is that these are areas that need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

However, I’ve been playing FM24 a lot and having a great, fun time with it. This is largely because of the ME. I’d go so far as to say that this is the best version of FM that I have played. Naturally, a patch that fixes bugs and improves the game is desirable, but in general I’m finding the game as it stands to be in good shape, so I’m hoping there aren’t any dramatic changes that mess too much with an ME that seems to me to be extremely good.

Same. Lots of ppl say the game is too easy for them but I cant even win. Like i dont know what makes me lose ngl. Prolly morale

[stevecummins78]

The game is great but it all feels too easy. I’m playing a high pressing 433 with Birmingham and there is no way with their squad that I should be getting results like this…..

[Rashidi]

36 minutes ago, stevecummins78 said:

The game is great but it all feels too easy. I’m playing a high pressing 433 with Birmingham and there is no way with their squad that I should be getting results like this…..

You should also link the team detailed stats, ie. from goals scored - how many from corners, IDFK, FK and Penalties. I have scored 62 goals with Gloucester and 37% have come from setpieces, that doesn’t even include throw ins since it isn’t tracked. Goals per game might be fine for the league but the source of the goals is something I am finding a bit off. I am no expert on lower league statistics and I am curious if that number is realistic.

[Dadecane]

44 minutes ago, stevecummins78 said:

The game is great but it all feels too easy. I’m playing a high pressing 433 with Birmingham and there is no way with their squad that I should be getting results like this…..

Teams tend to wear down in the 2nd half of the season. For me at least every game in the 2nd half is much more tougher to win. Youre currently 2nd but the same points seperate u from 1st or 6th. Play out the season. I wouldnt say the game is easy by any means, probably easi-er for experienced players like us, but its still a challenge. 

[ChrisNUFC]

It’d be interesting to see how many players with 15+ rating in work rate, teamwork and stamina there are across the database. Rarely see players with less than 10. 

[steviemay17]

Do any teams actually deploy the chode pitch in real life where it's wider than it is long or just in FM? 

[LucasBR]

Set-piece creator is a joke

Why can't I select short throw-ins for one side and a long throw for the opposite side? 

[stevecummins78]

40 minutes ago, steviemay17 said:

Do any teams actually deploy the chode pitch in real life where it's wider than it is long or just in FM? 

“Chode” LOL

[autohoratio]

1 hour ago, steviemay17 said:

Do any teams actually deploy the chode pitch in real life where it's wider than it is long or just in FM? 

99.9% of the time it's just FM. It's a weird behaviour (I don't want to say bug because it might be a feature ) that the game chooses the shortest and widest possible extreme (90m long 85m wide) for some stadiums when there isn't a minimum or maximum defined length/width (so it's absurdly common when playing lower league saves), I reported it as a bug several years ago but evidently it's not high up on SI's priorities to stop AI managers doing this.

Edited November 24, 2023 by autohoratio

[BuryBlade]

The fundamental issue for me isn’t ‘why is the fix taking so long’, but ‘does nobody in SI studios play or test the game at any point before release?’

I can’t for a second believe that all of the issues with FM24, most of which are apparent within a couple of hours of playing, were missed by everybody.

Either nobody is testing the game, or everyone is a ‘yes-man’ (parroting Miles’ Twitter approach) because apparently this is the most polished version ever! 

[Fr0ufrou]

I very much like the FM series because it's unique and it's the only game in this niche, I also love football but seriously this game has no respect for us or our time. It's like a big brother that gives you the second controller and promises you are doing something.

Most of the systems in the game straight up do not work, we all think they do so we are having fun nonetheless but we are just roleplaying. We are imagining playing our great link up attacker as a false 9 works well and is some Pep genius while he would in fact score as many assists in any other attacking role. He would overall perfom better, both as a creator and a scorer as an advanced forward with the "take more risks" instruction. We might think it does, because it makes sense and it should, but the truth is it doesn't. There are litteral millions of FM-Arena simulated matches that point to this same exact conclusion every new game and every patch.

Most of the attributes are broken. Every year, someone over there tests the attributes and finds out half of them are useless in this game engine's iteration. Who could have guessed tackling and marking are useless attributes for central defenders? No I'm not pulling your leg this is the actual state of the game, test it for yourself and see.

Training is a scam. After watching evidence based football manager's training videos, I felt really defeated. All this time spent planning training for the month amounted to nothing, it was all a useless joke. In fact it was often even worse than doing nothing at all: I was replacing general training with specialized training which is straight up worse in every way. It was all some busywork to make me feel like I was in control. It did nothing for player progression and it didn't have any influence on the matches. This kind of gamedesign is really cruel, it's akin to candy crush saga and it's really a slap in the face.

When someone on these forums pointed the Devs to the EBFM video "does match preparation raise your chance of winning?" (the answer was no of course). I remember reading the feedback would go upwards, they would investigate and do something about it. Well they did, they simply removed the system in this year's iteration. Oopsie, it was never there, this system was broken but the rest of the game works, promise.

Most roles are completely dumb and are just a strictly inferior version of some other role (check FM arena and test **** for yourself). When it comes to tactics, most of the instructions barely do anything while a few of them do everything. Very high line and press have been broken for half a decade now and it's pretty much the only thing that actually matters if you want to win. Formations are an afterthought, just set your mentality to attack, your high line, 6 or 7 of players on an attack role and enjoy your 5-2 win. There is this elitist mentality that some of us are better at the game than the people who just "download a tactic". Well that's just really ironic because in their own way the people downloading tactics were right all along. Tinkering with support roles based on real life football is indeed a waste of time. Of course it's fun, and thats the important thing, but we are just roleplaying and making our own fun. The game itself does nothing for you.

Staff is useless, loan managers, technical directors, data scientists ("wow he is very good at analyzing data, that must be super helpful for a data scientist!") even coach star ratings barely amount to anything. It's all mindless excel busywork, a fantasy about making your numbers go up. The simulation itself might be even more shallow than cookie clicker.

Here's what some of you are going to tell me: "Don't use the broken stuff, make your own fun, play the game in a way that's fun for you etc.". Well yeah, I kind of tried that, I could maybe roleplay a smaller side with a defensive tactic and fight to avoid relegation. That might be fun until I face Liverpool or United playing attacking gegenpress. This is a sports game, the goal is to win, why would anyone purposely avoid using a good strategy in order to have fun? First do not use high line, then don't use attacking mentality, then don't use Attack Wingbacks (yes fullbacks are very much a scam by the way), then don't use low crosses. Congratulations, you are now losing games, you are getting the real manager experience, come back next year to buy our next 60$ database upgrade.

The worst part is that this **** has been broken for years and that SI, on top of not fixing it are just adding more busywork on top. Player agents are still as shallow but you have to go through an additional useless dialogue now. They added Club Vision so that your board can enforce the same stupid arbitrary requirements every time you play (preferred: make the most of set-pieces) ".

Now I know some of you are hardcore FM fans that are going to deny that the stats provided by FM-Arena users and the Evidence based Football Manager youtube channel are true. "These people don't know how to do proper data science and their evidence is flawed :nerdface-emoji:".

Well yes, those are amateurs that play the game like you and me, not actual data-scientists. They poured hundreds of hours in testing the game, if you were intellectually honest and actually watched their evidence and methdology, you would realize they are most definitely right about the stuff they find out, it's all so painfully obvious.

The reason the game never truly explains its mechanics is that they do not work. Every single piece of evidence points to that. I don't get that some of you hardcore fans are defending it over and over again. There is this ridiculous fan culture here and on reddit defending the game tooth and nail. Just stop silencing us, help us call out the ******** and give actual feedback. Help us make the game better instead of defending every bad practice. Football Manager could be a great game but it is not, help us complain and get the devs working on the right stuff.

I am not trying to ruin your fun, playing FM can be incredibly fun, even in its poor state. It's a great roleplaying tool in a big sandbox simulated world which is the best kind of game. But the reason the game is good is ourselves, we are creating our own fun. The game itself is just helping. And it could definitely help a lot better than it currently does.

[Sport Lacost]

17 minutes ago, Fr0ufrou said:

I very much like the FM series because it's unique and it's the only game in this niche, I also love football but seriously this game has no respect for us or our time. It's like a big brother that gives you the second controller and promises you are doing something.

Most of the systems in the game straight up do not work, we all think they do so we are having fun nonetheless but we are just roleplaying. We are imagining playing our great link up attacker as a false 9 works well and is some Pep genius while he would in fact score as many assists in any other attacking role. He would overall perfom better, both as a creator and a scorer as an advanced forward with the "take more risks" instruction. We might think it does, because it makes sense and it should, but the truth is it doesn't. There are litteral millions of FM-Arena simulated matches that point to this same exact conclusion every new game and every patch.

Most of the attributes are broken. Every year, someone over there tests the attributes and finds out half of them are useless in this game engine's iteration. Who could have guessed tackling and marking are useless attributes for central defenders? No I'm not pulling your leg this is the actual state of the game, test it for yourself and see.

Training is a scam. After watching evidence based football manager's training videos, I felt really defeated. All this time spent planning training for the month amounted to nothing, it was all a useless joke. In fact it was often even worse than doing nothing at all: I was replacing general training with specialized training which is straight up worse in every way. It was all some busywork to make me feel like I was in control. It did nothing for player progression and it didn't have any influence on the matches. This kind of gamedesign is really cruel, it's akin to candy crush saga and it's really a slap in the face.

When someone on these forums pointed the Devs to the EBFM video "does match preparation raise your chance of winning?" (the answer was no of course). I remember reading the feedback would go upwards, they would investigate and do something about it. Well they did, they simply removed the system in this year's iteration. Oopsie, it was never there, this system was broken but the rest of the game works, promise.

Most roles are completely dumb and are just a strictly inferior version of some other role (check FM arena and test **** for yourself). When it comes to tactics, most of the instructions barely do anything while a few of them do everything. Very high line and press have been broken for half a decade now and it's pretty much the only thing that actually matters if you want to win. Formations are an afterthought, just set your mentality to attack, your high line, 6 or 7 of players on an attack role and enjoy your 5-2 win. There is this elitist mentality that some of us are better at the game than the people who just "download a tactic". Well that's just really ironic because in their own way the people downloading tactics were right all along. Tinkering with support roles based on real life football is indeed a waste of time. Of course it's fun, and thats the important thing, but we are just roleplaying and making our own fun. The game itself does nothing for you.

Staff is useless, loan managers, technical directors, data scientists ("wow he is very good at analyzing data, that must be super helpful for a data scientist!") even coach star ratings barely amount to anything. It's all mindless excel busywork, a fantasy about making your numbers go up. The simulation itself might be even more shallow than cookie clicker.

Here's what some of you are going to tell me: "Don't use the broken stuff, make your own fun, play the game in a way that's fun for you etc.". Well yeah, I kind of tried that, I could maybe roleplay a smaller side with a defensive tactic and fight to avoid relegation. That might be fun until I face Liverpool or United playing attacking gegenpress. This is a sports game, the goal is to win, why would anyone purposely avoid using a good strategy in order to have fun? First do not use high line, then don't use attacking mentality, then don't use Attack Wingbacks (yes fullbacks are very much a scam by the way), then don't use low crosses. Congratulations, you are now losing games, you are getting the real manager experience, come back next year to buy our next 60$ database upgrade.

The worst part is that this **** has been broken for years and that SI, on top of not fixing it are just adding more busywork on top. Player agents are still as shallow but you have to go through an additional useless dialogue now. They added Club Vision so that your board can enforce the same stupid arbitrary requirements every time you play (preferred: make the most of set-pieces) ".

Now I know some of you are hardcore FM fans that are going to deny that the stats provided by FM-Arena users and the Evidence based Football Manager youtube channel are true. "These people don't know how to do proper data science and their evidence is flawed :nerdface-emoji:".

Well yes, those are amateurs that play the game like you and me, not actual data-scientists. They poured hundreds of hours in testing the game, if you were intellectually honest and actually watched their evidence and methdology, you would realize they are most definitely right about the stuff they find out, it's all so painfully obvious.

The reason the game never truly explains its mechanics is that they do not work. Every single piece of evidence points to that. I don't get that some of you hardcore fans are defending it over and over again. There is this ridiculous fan culture here and on reddit defending the game tooth and nail. Just stop silencing us, help us call out the ******** and give actual feedback. Help us make the game better instead of defending every bad practice. Football Manager could be a great game but it is not, help us complain and get the devs working on the right stuff.

I am not trying to ruin your fun, playing FM can be incredibly fun, even in its poor state. It's a great roleplaying tool in a big sandbox simulated world which is the best kind of game. But the reason the game is good is ourselves, we are creating our own fun. The game itself is just helping. And it could definitely help a lot better than it currently does.

I have to say I agree with alot of this and have felt similar over the past few years.

The greatest part of FM is the community. It's the fact it was this niche game that spawned so many wonderkids over the years. It's the fact we all have romantic stories of weird and wonderful clubs we fell in love with because of FM. 

But we didn't fall in love with them all because FM was great, it was because of our imagination. FM was simply the tool that enabled us to do so, and that tool has become poorer and poorer over the years. I genuinely believe, that even with a lack of competition, the FM series would have massively died out years ago had it not been for the community.

When you take the community and uniqueness of that out of it and judge it purely as a game, and not some romantic notion, it really is quite poor compared to other modern games on the market.