SaintEtienne

I agree that it can be annoying when a player, not long into their contract and with plenty of time left, seeks an improved contract. But is it unrealistic? Reality can sometimes be annoying. I suspect that football, as in other professions, contains individuals who "like to try it on", or are mercenary, or are just a pain in the neck. It would be unrealistic if this type of request for a new contract happened routinely; it would be equally unrealistic if it never happened at all.

I think you are mischaracterizing (and/or misunderstanding) what is happening in the game. This is my interpretation of what FM is trying to reflect: Player A wants a new contract. Manager says no (or says yes, but talks break down because agreement cannot be reached). Player A is understandably unhappy about this. Various things could happen at this point. Player A might keep matters to himself and simply get his agent onto the case. Or he might start complaining to some of his teammates (particularly those he feels closest to, or those he thinks are influential) about the situation. If he complains, again various things might happen. If Player A is popular or influential, or if he is regarded as an important member of the team (and just because a manager might not regard him as important doesn’t mean some of his teammates share that managerial view) then those players might agree with him. Things might then escalate a little, especially if those players are influential, and it might result in a little solidarity among a group of players, such that they will raise the issue with management. Management might deal with this well and resolve the situation, or management might deal with it poorly and things will escalate further. There is nothing strange about this scenario; indeed, it’s fairly humdrum. Various factors will influence the direction things might take: (1) the personalities of the players; (2) the popularity and/or influence of the players in question; and (3) how well management deals with the situation. Your point about other players not negotiating the contract is a straw man argument. I never said they do, and this does not happen in the game (at least, not in mine). It’s just a general complaint that a player should be given a new contract. At no point are any players negotiating the contract. You also raise the point about length of time left on the contract. But that is irrelevant. A player is either being paid what they think they deserve, or they are not. If they believe they are undervalued (and their belief might be justified or it might not, but it’s still their belief), the fact that they have several years left on their contract is neither here nor there. The question of agents has been raised a few times in this thread, but I think there is some misunderstanding of the role of agents. If you engage an estate agent when buying a house, does that mean you sit back and take no role in the process? Of course not. An agent is just someone who works on your behalf. It doesn’t mean that players won’t have any involvement in their contract negotiations or financial affairs. I imagine footballers are like the rest of us: some will show barely any interest in their own financial affairs and leave everything to others; some will be checking their bank accounts and investment portfolios every day and be all over their own finances; most will be somewhere in between. I don’t understand your point about the media. The media are not reporting every single player interaction at every single club. That would be absurd (and very dull news). Do you really think that the media or the rest of us are really that interested in every single professional footballer’s contract status that we want to read a detailed blow-by-blow account of the daily goings-on at a club? Are you really saying that, unless the media are reporting every single routine interaction at a club, then we should assume that none of those interactions ever occur? Furthermore, the game quite clearly makes a distinction between matters that are internal or public. Sometimes (albeit rarely) a player goes to the media with his complaint. But most of the situations in the game are quite clearly indicated as “internal”. Finally, is this situation really that common? In my current save (11 seasons and counting) I’ve yet to encounter it (I’ve had a few players unhappy about their contract situation, but this has never escalated beyond that individual player’s unhappiness). And across the last five versions of FM, I estimate that I’ve encountered this situation (a group of players wanting a meeting about another player’s contract unhappiness) no more than four or five times. I’m almost certainly not a tactical genius, but I do know how to manage dynamics. It’s not that difficult: don’t overpromise, treat players fairly, and keep a close eye on personalities, influence, and social groups, because if you understand what’s going on with those then you should be able to avoid most issues – and if you do have a difficult player who is always stirring things up at the club (and there are always such difficult people in every walk of life), then get rid of him.

Every day of the week, up and down the country, workers are raising issues with management. Issues can be anything from minor ones (“we requested a new coffee machine three months ago, but this has still not happened”) to major ones (“X is a vital member of our team, but we’re really concerned that she will be leaving for another company at the end of her contract”). This most obviously manifests itself when unions decide on collective action (frequently over the issue of pay), but plenty of non-union workers take an interest in their own and their colleagues’ work conditions and contractual status, as well as more generally in the performance of the company for which they are working. I doubt footballers are any different to the broad spectrum of humanity. Some will be motivated purely by self-interest and won’t give a damn about their colleagues or club (in FM terms, probably personalities like the “mercenary”). Others will realise that their own wellbeing depends on the collective wellbeing, so they will become concerned if certain valued colleagues are unhappy or might leave the club (in FM, probably personalities like “professional”, who will expect management and the club to share their own professionalism and values). Your argument seems to be that footballers are a special breed of humanity who care nothing for their colleagues or the organization for which they work, who will not give a damn if their fellow players are unhappy or are treated unfairly, and who are too self-interested (or cowardly) ever to complain to management. Respectfully, I think this view is both a wild generalization and utterly implausible. Where I am in some agreement with you (and it’s a point I made briefly in my first reply) is that the game doesn’t model this type of interaction very well. IRL managers won’t be so closely involved in contract decisions or negotiations (I’m sure the manager is often consulted, but ultimately these are decisions taken higher up the organization). And interactions in general are very clunky and simplistic in the game – which is understandable, because it is not an easy thing even to get close to capturing the vast complexity of RL human interactions (and personalities). But criticizing the game for how interactions are implemented is not the same as arguing that there should be no such interactions because (as I interpret what you are saying) RL players do not interact with or even take any interest in the company for whom they work. I’ve never worked for a football club, but I have spent a lot of time around humans (and, within my work, to studying humans), and the only thing I find unrealistic here is your sweeping characterization of footballers.

It’s entirely realistic that a group of employees will talk about their employment, will form friendships and connections with fellow employees, will support and stick up for them, and will often raise concerns with management. It’s also entirely realistic that most or all of a squad might get unhappy if they think fellow employees are being treated unfairly or unreasonably. The amount of control managers have over contracts in the game might be unrealistic, and some of the triggering issues might be better implemented, but long may player and squad complaints continue in FM. I don’t want a world in which workers are expected to shut up and get on with their jobs, and in which they never feel able to support their teammates or complain about management.

After four seasons on FM24, I finally saw one, and in the exact way you described: Kai Havertz curling in a perfect 20-yarder for my Borussia Dortmund side against Hamburg. This demonstrates two things: (1) they can still happen in the game; and (2) Havertz gets to become a very good footballer by the age of 34.

You say it’s a “problem”, but it’s not. All your “rules” can easily be applied in the game as it is, so why is there a need for a special button for them? It’s almost as if you fear (based on experience?) that you lack the willpower to follow your own rules… Rather than creating buttons and modes to accommodate the countless ways in which players play the game, maybe SI are better sticking to what they already do really well: creating a vast football universe for players to interact and engage with. And then leave it to us, the players, to use our imagination and creativity to enjoy that universe, applying whatever “rules” (backed up by willpower) suit us.

I know recent matches, and the Galatasaray result in particular, have been tough for you, but seriously, Erik, you need to pull yourself together.

If you don't want them to play in the U18 match, just don't do anything and move on. Currently, they WON'T be playing in the U18 match (your assistant is simply suggesting that maybe they should). So, just leave the screen as it is and you'll be fine.

I also spend a lot of time on the tactical side of the game, trying to get my tactical plans and in-game decisions right. But tactics, while important, are only one factor in determining the outcome of a match. Mentality is a big part. So too is luck. In your match, you're away to Celtic, which is a tough match in any circumstances. It's an important game in a title race. It's entirely plausible that Celtic were just really up for it, had the crowd behind them, and your players couldn't cope mentally. Maybe Celtic had better 'big match' players. Plus, throw in the possibility that it was match in which almost every bit of luck went the way of Celtic, and you faced a perfect storm. Your players, individually and collectively, quickly got mentally frazzled and never recovered.

One of the great things about football, and something that FM captures really well, is that it has far more surprising, and sometimes downright freakish, results than most other sports. And that’s all your 8-1 defeat is. Be thankful you have a great story. In your universe, that match will spoken about for years to come (particularly by Hibs and Celtic fans). Finally, use the frustration positively. Back on FM21, I was Cliftonville manager and went into a final day title decider away at Linfield. Win the game, and we were league champions; any other result, and Linfield were champions. Tough match and I wasn’t hugely optimistic. But we led 2-0 after 60 minutes. Then one of my CMs got sent off, we conceded, tried to cling on, but let in the equaliser in the 85th minute. And that’s how it finished: 2-2. I was gutted, and sure a little part of me raged at the game, thinking it was rigged against me. But, after half an hour of staring dead-eyed at my screen, I just resolved that I never wanted this to happen again, and that I was going to use the summer transfer window to smash Linfield next season. I went on to claim back-to-back league titles and turn Cliftonville into the most dominant side in Northern Ireland. And that single 2-2 result against Linfield, which was so frustrating and annoying at the time, now sits in my memory as the single most memorable match from that save (just ahead of a 0-0 draw at home to Inter Milan to claim my single point across 12 CL group stage matches).

One of the most astonishing matches I have ever watched: the 2014 World Cup semi final between Brazil and Germany. Brazil: host nation, crowd behind them, momentum, positivity. But the occasion got to them. Their decision making and composure fell apart once they went behind, and had the Germans not decided at half-time to ease off in the second half, it would have been worse than 7-1. A few days later, Brazil then got absolutely hammered 3-0 by the Netherlands in the 3rd/4th place play off. It doesn't happen often, but sometimes things can fall apart very quickly even for a good side in good form.

Maybe the game should have two modes: Normal mode, and Difficult (Full Realism) mode. The latter doesn't take you to the game itself; it takes you to a template letter to be used to apply to whatever managerial vacancies currently exist in the real world.

A long time ago, I bought a guitar. I found it very difficult to play. A few years later, I bought a new guitar. I found it much easier to play. Was that because guitars had been made easier? Or was it because I’d practised and played guitar for hundreds of hours and had got a lot better at it? I’ve played every FM version since FM19, and back in the day I also played CM2 and CM01/02. I have amassed thousands of hours playing this game over many years of my life. The game play principles of recent FMs don’t vary hugely from version to version, so, yes, I’m very experienced at it and tend to know some good strategic and tactical principles to be successful. FM is unlike most other games. Most FM players play this game for many years. With many other games, one plays them to completion once. I played Breath of the Wild earlier this year. It was my first Zelda game and I found it pretty tough going early on (I died a lot!). But a few hundred hours later I’d completed it. I bet if I pick it up again next year, and again the year after that, I’ll find it much easier than I did the first time. And I bet that when I start Tears of the Kingdom, my experience of Breath of the Wild will make it easier than if this was my first Zelda game (which is kind of why I’m delaying starting it, so I can “forget” some of what I learned on BotW). In short: how much of the apparent “easiness” of FM has nothing to do with the game and a lot to do with experienced players who have accumulated, in many cases, thousands of hours of FM gameplay?

It might be luck (and I do feel lucky, because high scores would ruin it for me too). My sample size of three full seasons in one save is tiny. There can be quite marked fluctuations in goalscoring. The second season of my save (which was played on FM23) had a crazy number of goals in my division at the time (Vanarama South): I think all 24 teams scored 60+ goals. Things returned to normal in the next season (Vanarama National). A couple of seasons later I was playing in League Two and I had a season where goals were hard to come by (only a handful of teams scored more than 60; IIRC my Notts County side totally dominated the league but scored only about 70 goals). In other words, there can be variation across seasons (which I rather like: I think FM should allow for interesting, unusual seasons, just as IRL there are occasional strange seasons). And might it have anything to do with my save being imported from FM23 (the first seven seasons were on FM23, so I began FM24 in 2029/30 season)? I’m not sure I understand why that would be the case. But, at the same time, I don’t understand why I’m not seeing any of the problems with the ME or with number of goals scored being raised by several people here. There are lots of issues with FM24 (mostly ones that have been in the game for several years and simply haven’t been addressed), but my experience so far is that the ME is great and I’m having a lot of fun. FM24 is certainly not “polished”, but (as I’ve said before) overall I’m finding FM24 to be the best version of FM I’ve played (and so much better than FM23, which I found to be a huge disappointment).

On the issue of whether too many goals have been scored: It is possible that my experience on FM24 has been an outlier, but the promise to make changes to the match engine to lower overall goals scored worries me a little. In my three (and two-thirds) seasons played on FM24 goalscoring has been entirely normal and in line with RL number of goals. Here are the total number of goals across the three seasons I played in the PL: Season 1: 994 goals (average 2.62 goals per game) Season 2: 1,041 goals (average 2.74 goals per game) Season 3: 1,138 goals (average 2.99 goals per game) Season 3 is a little high (it breaks the RL record for PL goals scored, which is 1,084 from 2022/23). But there is an explanation that has nothing to do with the match engine. Three teams (Nottingham Forest, Crystal Palace and Sheffield United) conceded 110, 110 and 98 goals respectively. Take their contribution to high-scoring matches out of the sample, and total goals scored would be normal. All three had weak squads, played 442, and defended abysmally from the opening day to the final day of the season. But that's not an ME issue; that's an AI issue. IRL the managers would have tried to fix the defensive issues in some way (improving the squad, changing the tactics); in the game, they ploughed on for 38 matches without any significant adjustments or any apparent awareness of the fundamental problems in their approach. Across 200 matches played in FM24, I've still only had five matches with more than six goals (7-1, 4-4, 4-3, and a couple of 5-2 results, one of which was 2-2 after 90 minutes). I see a lot of 0-0, 1-0 and 1-1 scores, both in my own matches and in AI vs AI matches in my league. It is entirely possible that there is a problem and that I have been fortunate in not experiencing it. But I'm a little concerned that if ME changes do reduce the overall goals, the league tables I see will start to resemble Serie A league tables from the 1970s and 1980s.