FM24 Early Access Official Feedback Thread

[bezarkane]

- I just found that I don't have a doctor (the staff member you can't sign but who is automatically added) at my Ajax team. Is that a bug? Is there something I can do?

- I can give my youth players contracts with 3-years-option for the club but I can't use that option while they only have 6 months left on their contract (probably because of max contract length for young players?). Is this as designed? There should be a warning at least.

Edited October 27, 2023 by bezarkane

[Novem9]

47 минут назад, DarJ сказал:

I think it’s the opposite. I think they follow instructions more now. I was playing against Barcelona and they way my tactics is setup although I don’t really care about possession that much, I will still have most of the ball so in the game I went 1-0 down and Barcelona were just passing the ball around for fun and at this point I only had 30% of the ball so I decided that since I’m not seeing most of the ball anyway I might as well try to go a bit direct and I ended up winning 2-1 and in both goals it too 3 to 4 passes before the goal was scored 

I compare with fm22, where the % of possession clearly reflected my idea. However, in Beta 24, I often see matches where I dominate the game, win comfortably... and have 40-46% possession against a weaker team. But my tactic based on ball control! Opposite team didn’t hit the goal at all. This already happened in the beta of 21, if I'm not confused.

[Novem9]

1 час назад, DarJ сказал:

They other alternative which they are already trying to implement is more inaccurate passes and first touch from players with bad passing attributes and technique 

This! 

[rdbayly]

33 minutes ago, DarJ said:

Attributes are relative to the division you're playing. If he's playing that way against Premier League level teams and winning then it's a problem.

I've never understood the notion that a lower division team shouldn't be able to play a certain way when in reality they only play against opposition of similar quality 

Because some attributes are indeed relative (e.g. pace and acceleration) but many others are absolute. 

[kiwityke1983]

My keeper just broke the record for number of clean sheets in the league with 15, prior record was 13.

So that would suggest people struggling are definitely having tactical issues rather than Keepers being broken.

[cris182]

Any sign of yellow cards being upgraded to red or red cards overturned using VAR yet? Is it in the game?

[DarJ]

19 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

Because some attributes are indeed relative (e.g. pace and acceleration) but many others are absolute. 

I don’t think you understood what I meant. If anything it’s the opposite, pace and acceleration are absolute while the rest are relative to the division you’re playing in.

What I mean by saying that attributes are relative to the division you’re playing in is because when you’re playing with a 10th division team you’re not going to have players that have 15 for first touch, passing, vision etc. you will be playing against players that have 8 or 9 for those attributes just like your players so you should still be able to play what ever style of football you want. 

[DarJ]

4 minutes ago, cris182 said:

Any sign of yellow cards being upgraded to red or red cards overturned using VAR yet? Is it in the game?

I’ve not seen any yet 

[kiwityke1983]

Is there no end of season summary now? I didn't get one.

[Double0Seven]

Seems like I will skip FM for another year. Its beyond frustrating that we are being charged a full price game for problems that have been in this game for years. I said it before and I will say it again. We cannot be having this discussion again every year. It feels hopeless. We are talking about problems that are in the game for a decade. When will SI fix this beyond marketing PR promises? It feels like us customers are not being taken seriously, because every year people just keep paying for almost the same game again. 

I dont want or need interactions that dont even work. Put time and effort into the important things. Feels like I've been saying this year in year out and just getting ignored. Frustrating to say at least. 

[Etebaer]

Well, the option to convert FM23 saves into FM24 saves and the "last of its kind b4 the big engine switch" scenario convinced me to buy the new game - so far it worked and contains modded content it seems - curious if it will work well.

I copied my Avatar from FM23 into FM24 and it seems to work - i really hate to do my Avatar new every year!

 

1. thing i see is that again this game offers only a Dark Skin - very disapointing as i struggle hard with dark skins bcs. they tire out my eyes very quick!

2. thing i see right from the start is it did not save my teams edited club name and reverted it back to the old one - disapointing!

Edited October 27, 2023 by Etebaer

[DarJ]

1 minute ago, Double0Seven said:

Seems like I will skip FM for another year. Its beyond frustrating that we are being charged a full price game for problems that have been in this game for years. I said it before and I will say it again. We cannot be having this discussion again every year. It feels hopeless. We are talking about problems that are in the game for a decade. When will SI fix this beyond marketing PR promises? It feels like us customers are not being taken seriously, because every year people just keep paying for almost the same game again. 

I dont want or need interactions that dont even work. Put time and effort into the important things. Feels like I've been saying this year in year out and just getting ignored. Frustrating to say at least. 

I’m curious to see how people are doing these tests because if you go to the previous page at the top you will see that someone ran the simulation and concluded that it’s fine or better then it was last year 

[parsdaft1982]

16 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

My keeper just broke the record for number of clean sheets in the league with 15, prior record was 13.

So that would suggest people struggling are definitely having tactical issues rather than Keepers being broken.

Yea same here, my keeper got keeper of the season and only 1 injury

[Pasonen]

1 hour ago, DarJ said:

Attributes are relative to the division you're playing. If he's playing that way against Premier League level teams and winning then it's a problem.

I've never understood the notion that a lower division team shouldn't be able to play a certain way when in reality they only play against opposition of similar quality 

Correction 3 straight promotions. Yeah I know attributes are related to the leagues teams. Anyway there's something wrong in AI behaviour to allow this kind of marches through leagues.. it has been like this from the dawn of this game and it just continues and continues.

 

Is it the tactics being too soft on everyone to not punish human because AI would make even more horrible mistakes in tactics?

AI squad building and transfers being horrible?

Well AI can't use substitutions properly (or at all) at the moment so that's one reason.

[bigmattb28]

40 minutes ago, cris182 said:

Any sign of yellow cards being upgraded to red or red cards overturned using VAR yet? Is it in the game?

Not seen that but I have for the first time I can recall have had a goal given in my favour after initially being ruled out

[DarJ]

4 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

Anyway there's something wrong in AI behaviour to allow this kind of marches through leagues.. it has been like this from the dawn of this game and it just continues and continues.

That is never going to change. It is still a game at the end of the day and 5 million people need to be able to play it and it's only a small minority of people that would be okay staying stuck in one division through the entire game cycle if you are looking for ultra realism

[Pasonen]

Just now, DarJ said:

That is never going to change. It is still a game at the end of the day and 5 million people need to be able to play it and it's only a small minority of people that would be okay staying stuck in one division through the entire game cycle if you are looking for ultra realism

I would prefer golden middle and not the HC side of difficulty. 

[Venthemator]

So, I'm in the third season of the beta and I'm encountering a huge problem. My computer was able to run season 1 perfectly fine and a lot of season 2, but now that I'm trying to play the third season it is SO slow. Like, ridiculously slow. I dont know if its a problem with my computer or not but it is putting me off playing. I'm using a laptop with 8GB of RAM and the processor is a 13th Gen Intel Core i5-1335U 1.30GHz. Anyone have any advice? 

[DarJ]

7 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

I would prefer golden middle and not the HC side of difficulty. 

one can argue that you already have that depending on how you play. It could be more difficult for example if you delegate transfers to your director of football

[hge12345]

Hey. 

After playing the game for what I can only assume is a totally unhealthy amount in the last few days, I have noticed that crossing from the by-line   seems to be far to overpowered in terms of a method of both scoring and conceding goals. Hopefully, other can offer convergence on this if my current experience is representative. If that is the case, hopefully the match engine will be tweaked like in previous years i.e changing to probability of scoring 1 vs 1 etc, to reflect other players styles being effective. 

 

[XaW]

54 minutes ago, DarJ said:

I’m curious to see how people are doing these tests because if you go to the previous page at the top you will see that someone ran the simulation and concluded that it’s fine or better then it was last year 

They usually don't do much testing at all, they just simulate once and then look for errors, and lo and behold! they find some out of the whole game. The example there had no info about how it was done, detail level, setup, nothing. Just someone writing it online and people are gobbling it up without question. I've got no doubts there are errors there, and I really hope whoever have done "tests" can report it to SI to check it and hopefully improve it, but just blurting it out on Reddit or Twitter (oh, "X", I should say) apparently is enough.

I've not gotten long enough into my saves yet to see what happens, but if or when I spot something I'll be sure to report it, and I hope everyone else do too...

[kiwityke1983]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

They usually don't do much testing at all, they just simulate once and then look for errors, and lo and behold! they find some out of the whole game. The example there had no info about how it was done, detail level, setup, nothing. Just someone writing it online and people are gobbling it up without question. I've got no doubts there are errors there, and I really hope whoever have done "tests" can report it to SI to check it and hopefully improve it, but just blurting it out on Reddit or Twitter (oh, "X", I should say) apparently is enough.

I've not gotten long enough into my saves yet to see what happens, but if or when I spot something I'll be sure to report it, and I hope everyone else do too...

I had noticed all of the negative "tests" were very light on evidence and high on ranting.

[XaW]

Just now, kiwityke1983 said:

I had noticed all of the negative "tests" were very light on evidence and high on ranting.

My gut feeling is this is more for internet points than real testing and reporting to improve the game. Negativity always bring in more reactions that praise. And as someone who's professional job is being a tester/test manager of software (and no I don't work for SI, I mod here on my spare time) it just triggers me when people call this testing. There are no method to it, nor consideration of setups or variables. Just load up a random save, holiday, and look for examples of what they've already decided they will find. Now, I don't think average people should have to do the work of professional testers, but if you do it this poorly and then proclaim to have "proof", then I set the bar a little higher...

[MasterFolke]

Lots of people say they get loads of injuries, that happened to me to the first season but then in season two its good again and i rarely get em, maybe its because i hade a harder preseason-schedule:)

[phnompenhandy]

Well, I didn't expect this - won 3-0 with all the goals being penalties. Saka took the first, then gave up the next two. Art imitating life!!!

[whatsupdoc]

Game is better than expected after a couple of years off. 

 

Same improvements I suggested back then:

- clicking "always ignore" does nothing on tactical advice. 

- the roles are too restrictive.

[Daveincid]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Double0Seven:

Seems like I will skip FM for another year. Its beyond frustrating that we are being charged a full price game for problems that have been in this game for years. I said it before and I will say it again. We cannot be having this discussion again every year. It feels hopeless. We are talking about problems that are in the game for a decade. When will SI fix this beyond marketing PR promises? It feels like us customers are not being taken seriously, because every year people just keep paying for almost the same game again. 

I dont want or need interactions that dont even work. Put time and effort into the important things. Feels like I've been saying this year in year out and just getting ignored. Frustrating to say at least. 

The reason why the squad AI doesn't rotate that often is pretty simple: They don't have to because there are (and were for years) less injuries in FM as IRL. (As far as I know mainly because parts of the community constantly moaned about it.) 

You can't have less injuries as normal in the game and expect a realistic squad rotation. 

 

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, Etebaer said:

Well, the option to convert FM23 saves into FM24 saves and the "last of its kind b4 the big engine switch" scenario convinced me to buy the new game - so far it worked and contains modded content it seems - curious if it will work well.

I copied my Avatar from FM23 into FM24 and it seems to work - i really hate to do my Avatar new every year!

 

1. thing i see is that again this game offers only a Dark Skin - very disapointing as i struggle hard with dark skins bcs. they tire out my eyes very quick!

2. thing i see right from the start is it did not save my teams edited club name and reverted it back to the old one - disapointing!

There are easy fixes to both, that we can't discuss here.

[ajw10]

15 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Well, I didn't expect this - won 3-0 with all the goals being penalties. Saka took the first, then gave up the next two. Art imitating life!!!

There's a tick box now for it

[phnompenhandy]

^ oh, I never noticed that.

[Etebaer]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb phnompenhandy:

There are easy fixes to both, that we can't discuss here.

Well, i guess i found an easy way to solve that naming issue - now i only need to hope a good soul will release a light skin that is not mustermann.

[Jack Joyce]

1 hour ago, Daveincid said:

The reason why the squad AI doesn't rotate that often is pretty simple: They don't have to because there are (and were for years) less injuries in FM as IRL. (As far as I know mainly because parts of the community constantly moaned about it.) 

You can't have less injuries as normal in the game and expect a realistic squad rotation. 

 

This is definitely a factor that is often overlooked, for sure. However there's certainly more we can do to improve rotation even in a world with less injuries than real life and we're constantly striving to improve things.

However, the best possible thing people can do if they want to help us improve squad rotation is provide clear and concise examples for us to investigate:

• If you're seeing matches with low number of subs - log a bug report with direct PKM examples. Hyperbolic statements such as "AI never makes subs" are not only unhelpful but also clearly untrue, examples are key here.
• If you think AI teams aren't rotating their squads enough in general - provide save games directly before matches where AI teams start players on surprisingly low fitness, where its clear they should have been rested or rotated the team.
• It's important to not make assumptions on data and always try to do research into real-life statistics - we've had multiple cases where people say e.g. no lower league team should have 80+% pass completion, Burnley shouldn't be averaging 80+% pass completion, or "90% of matches teams use all their subs". All of which are fairly easily disproven by real life statistics that are publicly available, but people can read these sort of statements and just assume the person is right.

This sort of info is so much more useful to us than random out of context soak tests - I'm sure people's hearts are in the right place with this stuff, but you have to be so careful with controlling certain factors, and our internal tests are likely to be a lot more extensive and reliable from a data POV. Specific use-case examples are a lot more useful!

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb Jack Joyce:

This is definitely a factor that is often overlooked, for sure. However there's certainly more we can do to improve rotation even in a world with less injuries than real life and we're constantly striving to improve things.

Definetly! The situation in FM24 is already better as it was in FM23.

 

[DarJ]

4 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

provide save games directly before matches

this is a bit hard to do because we can't predict what will happen game so unless someone saves before every game that's a bit tricky 

[Jack Joyce]

1 minute ago, DarJ said:

this is a bit hard to do because we can't predict what will happen game so unless someone saves before every game that's a bit tricky 

Absolutely, it's tricky! I always make a habit of saving before every match so I can catch anything I need to. 

But reporting specific examples isn't easy, and it's certainly not an expectation that people should or have to be doing this. Any help we get with this stuff is greatly appreciated and anything we get we see as a bonus.

[kiwityke1983]

1 hour ago, MasterFolke said:

Lots of people say they get loads of injuries, that happened to me to the first season but then in season two its good again and i rarely get em, maybe its because i hade a harder preseason-schedule:)

I thought I got loads of injuries but checking the injury report at the end of he season I did get a lot of them but they were at best niggles.

One player was injured 7 times, he was injured for a total of 2 weeks all season.

2 players had what I'd consider serious injuries, a cruciate and a torn thigh that was it.

[SaintsCanada]

I love FM24 so far. It's the best iteration in a very long time. However, I find it very high scoring. In my first three league matches, I have scored 10 goals and conceded 6. I am playing a fairly attacking formation (FM calls it the 5-2-3 WB), but my team instructions and roles are not extremely gung-ho.

Is this only my experience, or are others finding there are too many goals?

Edited October 27, 2023 by SaintsCanada

[MrPompey]

18 hours ago, Hibs1875 said:

Yep I will have 3 shots against and that’s pretty much 3 goals 😂 went 62 games now in league without winning a game with a clean sheet 

EDIT - IGNORE

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by MrPompey

[Jack Joyce]

12 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

This is an issue. Ive raised a bug. If you run a soak test until the end of a season then view clean sheets under team stats this is what I found and then compared to last season:

I'm certain you're looking at current streak for consecutive clean sheets, not total clean sheets. Our last internal stats for the premier league consistently have the top clean sheet team with 15-20.

In your bug thread, your screenshot is looking at the wrong statistics. Teams are certainly not only keeping 1/2 clean sheets across a whole season..

[rp1966]

4 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

In your bug thread, your screenshot is looking at the wrong statistics. Teams are certainly not only keeping 1/2 clean sheets across a whole season..

I thought that report looked wrong so just checked my game - only in Feb and top 4 in the EPL have >10 clean sheets each (Man City best with 15 so far). Unless something very weird has happened in mrpompey's game it would seem to be a mistake.

 

[MrPompey]

9 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

I'm certain you're looking at current streak for consecutive clean sheets, not total clean sheets. Our last internal stats for the premier league consistently have the top clean sheet team with 15-20.

In your bug thread, your screenshot is looking at the wrong statistics. Teams are certainly not only keeping 1/2 clean sheets across a whole season..

Yes, I edited the post. In fairness in detailed team stats its not clear that its consecutive. I have updated the bug post having looked at detailed player stats in in fairness its a lot more balanced and closer to real life

Soak Test stats looking at Detailed Player Stats - Clean sheets:

Edited October 27, 2023 by MrPompey

[Jack Joyce]

Just now, MrPompey said:

Yes, I edited the post. In fairness in detailed team stats its not clear that its consecutive. I have updated the bug post having looked at detailed player stats in in fairness its a lot more balanced and closer to real life

Yeah the stat appears to be called 'games without conceding' which can be misleading. It's under the 'form' header so it's implied that it's not across the whole season. But feel free to log a bug report for it to be changed to e.g. "Current Clean Sheet Streak" or something similar.

If you scroll down to the defending section you can see the total clean sheets there.

[Etebaer]

I won the crucial last game of the season that did decide the promotion 2:0 and made it via goal difference...phew.

I like the new Grass way more than the old one, Stadium looked nicer, but what stroke my eye was the players were seemingly way less exhausted over the course of the game.

In FM23 my whole team was at or below 1/4 of the heart if chosen as starting player - in FM24 now it was ~1/2 of a heart mostly and 2 players at ~1/3 of a heart with only one suggestion to sub for exhaustion issues.

[jonnyynnoj]

1 hour ago, Jack Joyce said:

Absolutely, it's tricky! I always make a habit of saving before every match so I can catch anything I need to. 

But reporting specific examples isn't easy, and it's certainly not an expectation that people should or have to be doing this. Any help we get with this stuff is greatly appreciated and anything we get we see as a bonus.

Assuming the issue is that the pkm doesn't contain the reasoning on why the AI made the decisions to start or not start certain players; would it not be possible for the game to have a debug mode of some sort that would save these kind of decisions the AI makes prior to the game into the pkm itself?

[Thalo]

Is it just me or is this plot summarised incorrectly? Bottom right quadrant should be low number of oppda, high defensive line?

[Jack Joyce]

Just now, jonnyynnoj said:

Assuming the issue is that the pkm doesn't contain the reasoning on why the AI made the decisions to start or not start certain players; would it not be possible for the game to have a debug mode of some sort that would save these kind of decisions the AI makes prior to the game into the pkm itself?

It's hard to explain, but the match really is its own isolated thing and the only data it has access to is data that is deliberately passed through by the 'outside of match' game system. The more data you pass through, the more costly matches are to run in terms of memory and performance.

The initial team selection is done pre-match, after which the AI will pick their 'final' starting 11 right before kick-off. So it's important for us to have a save game from directly before the match, so we can have the full picture in terms of how that initial matchday squad was selected, since that occurs before the match begins. It also allows us to re-run those save games with any new code, to see if our fixes have had a positive effect.

So it's a bit of a boring answer, but it's not really possible without slowing down the processing matches to a fairly large degree, which is fine for our internal debug builds but for a public release we want things to be as smooth/fast as possible.

[andu1]

Can something be done so that the AI can use their second formation more often?

For example Guardiola only plays his 4-3-3 but he is known to also often use a 4-2-3-1 with Alvarez behind Haaland.

In FM he only starts a 4-3-3 although it's stated that he also prefers 4-2-3-1 but he never uses it at all?!

 

[Icy]

hace 2 horas, Jack Joyce dijo:

This is definitely a factor that is often overlooked, for sure. However there's certainly more we can do to improve rotation even in a world with less injuries than real life and we're constantly striving to improve things.

However, the best possible thing people can do if they want to help us improve squad rotation is provide clear and concise examples for us to investigate:

• If you're seeing matches with low number of subs - log a bug report with direct PKM examples. Hyperbolic statements such as "AI never makes subs" are not only unhelpful but also clearly untrue, examples are key here.
• If you think AI teams aren't rotating their squads enough in general - provide save games directly before matches where AI teams start players on surprisingly low fitness, where its clear they should have been rested or rotated the team.
• It's important to not make assumptions on data and always try to do research into real-life statistics - we've had multiple cases where people say e.g. no lower league team should have 80+% pass completion, Burnley shouldn't be averaging 80+% pass completion, or "90% of matches teams use all their subs". All of which are fairly easily disproven by real life statistics that are publicly available, but people can read these sort of statements and just assume the person is right.

This sort of info is so much more useful to us than random out of context soak tests - I'm sure people's hearts are in the right place with this stuff, but you have to be so careful with controlling certain factors, and our internal tests are likely to be a lot more extensive and reliable from a data POV. Specific use-case examples are a lot more useful!

As the community is really divided about injuries, I'm really looking forward to the day that you decide that we should have two injury settings, realistic and standard. Let's say current standard is 75% of injury chance (I think I read that number somewhere but anyway it's just a sample) so realistic would be a 100% chance. We really need more injuries, but of course not career ending ones, but the small knocks, stomach pain, flu, etc that are really common and that force a player to miss one or two games once in a while and that cause rotations in real life. I know you are against different difficulties in the game and I agree in general, but this would be a simple thing to add. Then of course when people reports that they have X number of injuries in their game, they must state which setting do they have enabled to not to drive you crazy.

@Daveincid usually does a good job in his realistic "mod" raising the number of injuries and I'm so used to play with it enabled every year for a more real life management and rotations.

[diLLa88]

2 hours ago, Jack Joyce said:

This is definitely a factor that is often overlooked, for sure. However there's certainly more we can do to improve rotation even in a world with less injuries than real life and we're constantly striving to improve things.

However, the best possible thing people can do if they want to help us improve squad rotation is provide clear and concise examples for us to investigate:

• If you're seeing matches with low number of subs - log a bug report with direct PKM examples. Hyperbolic statements such as "AI never makes subs" are not only unhelpful but also clearly untrue, examples are key here.
• If you think AI teams aren't rotating their squads enough in general - provide save games directly before matches where AI teams start players on surprisingly low fitness, where its clear they should have been rested or rotated the team.
• It's important to not make assumptions on data and always try to do research into real-life statistics - we've had multiple cases where people say e.g. no lower league team should have 80+% pass completion, Burnley shouldn't be averaging 80+% pass completion, or "90% of matches teams use all their subs". All of which are fairly easily disproven by real life statistics that are publicly available, but people can read these sort of statements and just assume the person is right.

This sort of info is so much more useful to us than random out of context soak tests - I'm sure people's hearts are in the right place with this stuff, but you have to be so careful with controlling certain factors, and our internal tests are likely to be a lot more extensive and reliable from a data POV. Specific use-case examples are a lot more useful!

I think people have already provided quite a few pkm examples in the bug report section. I've done some myself with regards to not utilizing the subs enough.

I think most of us are just suprised and worried that a headline feature, a fix of something that has been an issue in the FM-series for years and reported every year, is pretty much non-existent. I've seen nearly no team play their hot prospects in any game or for a meaningful amount of time in the past full season, so I'd be surprised if you were reliant on my save game while it's probably happening for everyone else as well including your test team.

I'd be happy to be surprised of anyone providing even one example of a top team developing a non-regen young talent (not yet established at the start of the game) in an effective way by giving it playtime and loans and be slotted in the first team before the age of 23 a few seasons in.

[Christina_D]

2 hours ago, andu1 said:

Can something be done so that the AI can use their second formation more often?

For example Guardiola only plays his 4-3-3 but he is known to also often use a 4-2-3-1 with Alvarez behind Haaland.

In FM he only starts a 4-3-3 although it's stated that he also prefers 4-2-3-1 but he never uses it at all?!

 

That would likely be down to Guardiola's manager trait of "fits players into preferred tactic"

The AI JDT does flip between 2 formations, and it can be as many as 4 formations depending upon how the AI manager has been "built"

I would assume that if you think Pep should switch up formations a little more than he currently does then it may be worth bringing it up in the 'English Premier League Data' section of the forum, although correct me if I am wrong, but it has only been within the last 12 months (ish) that Pep has really ever started to deviate from his preferred 4-3-3

Edited October 27, 2023 by Christina_D