Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 He's definitely quitting international football isn't he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Racially abused? Since when being Turkish is a race? Nothing like people who can't tell the difference between race and nationality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 35 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Racially abused? Since when being Turkish is a race? Nothing like people who can't tell the difference between race and nationality. Because that's clearly the issue here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orzelek Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: He's definitely quitting international football isn't he? We can only hope - his performance at the WC was one of the worst displays of attitude I've seen. As for the episode - I totally understand people being mad at him, but racism is just not the right path to chose Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 34 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said: Because that's clearly the issue here... No, it's just that I hate seeing ignorant people spewing nonsense. As for the insults based on his nationality, he brought it onto himself after he took pictures with his president, biggest dictator in modern world. So, I have no sympathy for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EhvanHSV Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Turks get this stuff often in Germany, though. Not integrating properly, importing wives from Turkey so they don't have to marry Germans, all the usual nonsense certain berks over there spout. That the main target of abuse from the fans is a Turk while others, like Thomas Müller or Mats Hummels, get far less abuse is no coincidence; despite him creating seven goal scoring chances in the loss against Korea, it's Özil who gets the abuse, not Werner or Gomez for not being able to finish anything. Yeah, his appearance with Erdogan was stupid, but he's not getting this abuse just because of that. In 2016 he was getting stick from AfD for going on the Hajj, and one of the people they blamed for the Mannschaft not being German "in the classical sense." It's bollocks, and he'd be getting much less of this if his name was, well, Peter Müller or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons FC Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: No, it's just that I hate seeing ignorant people spewing nonsense. As for the insults based on his nationality, he brought it onto himself after he took pictures with his president, biggest dictator in modern world. So, I have no sympathy for him. Quite right GunmaN. This is deeply insulting for him but it is not racist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I don't think he looked that great in what I saw of him, but pretty mad that he seems to have been scapegoated for their poor tournament. I don't think there's really any member of their squad who can hold their head high and say they had a good tournament - they were all dreadful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 3 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said: Racially abused? Since when being Turkish is a race? Nothing like people who can't tell the difference between race and nationality. Turks are an ethnic group. If you don't understand that then please never go to Cyprus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, Heartwork said: Turks are an ethnic group. If you don't understand that then please never go to Cyprus. Nationality doesn't stricly mean they have to be born/living in Turkey. Maybe we see it differently because of different languages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Nationality doesn't stricly mean they have to be born/living in Turkey. Maybe we see it differently because of different languages. Cyprus is in a frozen conflict between ethnic Turks and ethnic Greeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Heartwork said: Cyprus is in a frozen conflict between ethnic Turks and ethnic Greeks. You don't have to tell me about nationalities and ethnic groups conflicts, I know all about that too well, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Nationality doesn't stricly mean they have to be born/living in Turkey. Maybe we see it differently because of different languages. People see it differently because you're being obtuse and ignorant. You're deliberately seeing race through a very basic premise, when it's a far more complicated situation than that and can certainly be used in this instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Just now, Confused Clarity said: People see it differently because you're being obtuse and ignorant. You're deliberately seeing race through a very basic premise, when it's a far more complicated situation than that and can certainly be used in this instance. Ignorant? Idk about English, but in my language race, ethnic group and nationality are three different things. And they insulted him based on his nationality, Turkish. It's offensive, I didn't say it wasn't. But maybe he should've thought about his actions before doing something ridiculous like indulging Erdogan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Turkish people are a subgroup of Turkic people. Turkic is an ethno-linguistic group inhabiting most of central Asia and parts of Siberia. Notable countries with a primarily Turkic population: Turkey, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan Turkmenistan (other "-stan" countries have Persian ethnic groups as the dominant population). There are also regions such as Crimea in Ukraine (with Crimean Tatars), Gagauzia in Moldova, and several republics in Asian Russia, with significant Turkic populations. Then there are attempts to give Turkic people in China an independent state (see: East Turkestan aka Uyghurstan) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I swear, it's like people are just looking for things to get offended about... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
decapitated Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 32 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said: Ignorant? Idk about English, but in my language race, ethnic group and nationality are three different things. And they insulted him based on his nationality, Turkish. It's offensive, I didn't say it wasn't. But maybe he should've thought about his actions before doing something ridiculous like indulging Erdogan. In the English as well as German context of race relations in which Ozil would have understood it, they were attacking his ethnicity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 "Son of a Turkish whore/bitch" 3 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said: he brought it onto himself No. Regardless of the reasons he has not "brought it onto himself" for his mother or their ethnicity to get abused. He may have brought onto himself being called a *****, a ****** or whatever, but bringing another family member and ethnicity into it goes too far. Materazzi learned that in 2006. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurs08 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 If you want to play possum with a Turkish dictator, play for Turkey. If you want to play for Germany, stay away. It's that simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, herne79 said: No. Regardless of the reasons he has not "brought it onto himself" for his mother or their ethnicity to get abused. He may have brought onto himself being called a *****, a ****** or whatever, but bringing another family member and ethnicity into it goes too far. Materazzi learned that in 2006. I didn't say it wasn't a disgusting thing to do from the fans, but it's his own fault. Materazzi got what he wanted in 2006. One of the best opposition players got sent off. He and a lot of other players use those kind of provocations to rattle their opponents, not because they personally hate them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyp Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Il y a 4 heures, GunmaN1905 a dit : No, it's just that I hate seeing ignorant people spewing nonsense. As for the insults based on his nationality, he brought it onto himself after he took pictures with his president, biggest dictator in modern world. So, I have no sympathy for him. Let's not exagerate, Kim is a far bigger dictator for exemple... I would say Erdogan is probably around the 10th biggest dictator (not counting Kings)...(he is making steady progress though) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunmaN1905 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cyp said: Let's not exagerate, Kim is a far bigger dictator for exemple... I would say Erdogan is probably around the 10th biggest dictator (not counting Kings)...(he is making steady progress though) I said modern world, not countries stuck in middle-ages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NabsKebabs Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 5 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said: Racially abused? Since when being Turkish is a race? Nothing like people who can't tell the difference between race and nationality. I consider myself pretty conservative but I think I disagree with you. I think it's an attack on ethnicity more so than nationality. Yes, I agree he did no favours with the Erdogan thing but at the end of the day it's just unacceptable...Ozil plays well with Germany and has won a world cup. I understand why Germans have hostility towards immigrants as many are useless thugs who just leech off the system and don't bother integrating to society. Ozil on the the other hand deserves respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orzelek Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 5 hours ago, PaulHartman71 said: I don't think he looked that great in what I saw of him, but pretty mad that he seems to have been scapegoated for their poor tournament. I don't think there's really any member of their squad who can hold their head high and say they had a good tournament - they were all dreadful. he became the scapegoat because of his general attitude. A lot of players played below their normal standard, but Özil was lazy and played without any knind of passion. He mostly looked like a guy, who wanted to go home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantine Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 So he wanted to go home this whole season in Arsenal games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1985 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I think the 'racist' issue comes from specifying that he's the son of a Turkish whore/bitch as opposed to the standard son of a bitch/whore. Why bring the Turkish bit into it if you weren't intending extra offense with that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, mark1985 said: I think the 'racist' issue comes from specifying that he's the son of a Turkish whore/bitch as opposed to the standard son of a bitch/whore. Why bring the Turkish bit into it if you weren't intending extra offense with that? I think this is discrimination not racism though. But they are scapegoating him, I am sure if he was bald or overweight or had any other feature (rather than being Turkish) that distinguished him from the other players in the squad, they would have target that instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 ore fa, PMLF ha scritto: I think this is discrimination not racism though. But they are scapegoating him, I am sure if he was bald or overweight or had any other feature (rather than being Turkish) that distinguished him from the other players in the squad, they would have target that instead. Nowadays "racism" has become just a very eye-catching way to identify discrimination based on any difference (it can go from actual ethnicity to socio-cultural and even regional diversity). Not that it matters, as the core of the issue is still a very negative thing, but I do maintain words are important and they shouldn't become one-size-fits-all buzzwords. The part I still struggle to understand is why "you son of a *****!" is considered "acceptable" (within the very loose standards for football "banter"), just like "you fat/bald/ginger piece of ****!"... But the moment you bring ethnicity in, it's unacceptable and everyone's up in arms about that. Shouldn't the "Turkish" part be more an aggravating factor than the whole issue? P.S. I can obviously see the political implications, but then again, extremist minorities weren't happy with the German NT not being "German enough" four years ago anyway, so who cares about their take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akura Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Is anyone else bored of hearing about people being offended by racism? In terms of words i mean, of course if people start throwing things at you or attacking you then of course it then can become a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 On 30/06/2018 at 21:33, PMLF said: I think this is discrimination not racism though. But they are scapegoating him, I am sure if he was bald or overweight or had any other feature (rather than being Turkish) that distinguished him from the other players in the squad, they would have target that instead. He was born in Gelsenkirchen, but he's been targeted for his Turkish background before, so no, they wouldn't have done that. They use it to say he doesn't belong. Despite actually being born in Germany Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Blinkhorn Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Lukaku's Player Tribune words are ringing in my ears, here. Quote When things were going well, I was reading newspapers articles and they were calling me Romelu Lukaku, the Belgian striker. When things weren’t going well, they were calling me Romelu Lukaku, the Belgian striker of Congolese descent. Now he's the son of an immigrant, is he. I wonder what he was considered on this occasion: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just now, Sean Blinkhorn said: Lukaku's Player Tribune words are ringing in my ears, here. Now he's the son of an immigrant, is he. I wonder what he was considered on this occasion: Bingo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Well this thread is going well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc91 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Isn’t he a third generation German-Turk as well? So his father/mother were born in Germany? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 hours ago, akura said: Is anyone else bored of hearing about people being offended by racism? In terms of words i mean, of course if people start throwing things at you or attacking you then of course it then can become a problem. No. I'm bored of people using racist phrases, i'm bored of people saying that words don't matter. I'm definitely not bored of people being offended by them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HemHat Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said: No. I'm bored of people using racist phrases, i'm bored of people saying that words don't matter. I'm definitely not bored of people being offended by them. I take it you don't think this is funny then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliss Seeker Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Confused Clarity said: No. I'm bored of people using racist phrases, i'm bored of people saying that words don't matter. I'm definitely not bored of people being offended by them. I'm bored of akura. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted July 2, 2018 Administrators Share Posted July 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, HemHat said: I take it you don't think this is funny then? CC is older than about 5, so I'd guess no. It's in poor taste so I've removed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Fine be angry with him but no need to bring his nationality/Heritage into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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