Football Manager 2016 - 16.2.0 Official feedback thread

[arneaux]

Played FM16.2 for a while now and indeed it sucks.

- crosses from opponent are 9 out of 10 a goal

- defenders can not defend (moving away from the ball?)

- my striker is constantly offside (even when he is moving horizontal, btw, never seen him do a 1-2)

- wondersafes from opponent, all the time

- creating chances is an utopia (movement without the ball, nope never happens)

- not a single FK goal

- passive behaviour of corner taker

- passive behavior winning 'third'-ball

- players do the same thing seemingly regardless of what they are instructed to do (early crossing, high or low balls, 1st or second post)

- always scoring are screamer as a first or obviously a (most of the time, late) equalizer

- when for instantly right center defender (this can be any player) out of the box during a corner for let say create a targetman for the turnover, as soon the corner is taken he sprints back at his position?

- none of the players have a own will, say 'flair'. Everything seems systematically plotted.

- while instructed 'play for possession' aka keep the ball, some players in the back 4 feel the urge to always kick the ball as far as they can (same goes for the goalie)

- whatever you do, you can not 'change' the game. If the opponent is better you are f**** nothing you can do, playing small, counter attack, long ball, clearing to the side, whatever you do, they will win.

For me this is by far the worst FM. Played FM2015 for over 800 hours, only 2 saves, started from a small local club and in 18 yrs managed myself to get up. For now, FM16 needs to improve or the 'uneven FM's are better then the even' is becoming the truth. As long as SI concentrates on things as movember, giving my forward a big mustage in stead of improving the ME, they are not improving. It does not matter if i can make 5 variations on my corner or FK, as long as the players not following up instructions.

SI should improve the instructions on 'while we're in possession' and 'what do we do if the opponent got the ball'. For now every player is just running like an idiot. There is no real visible difference between a normale center back, or a ball playing one. Same goes for a deep striker or a poacher. Same goes voor an advanced playmaker and attacking midfielder. Who uses the 'raumdeuter'? It seems that if only you tick of the right duty for the right player everything just magically falls in to place. If you got 1 thing 'wrong', screw you, your tactic is not working.

I would lik to see, 'how do you want to disturb the build-up'. Are we pressuring all together after losing a ball, or is the guy losing the ball giving pressure while the rest of your team repositions? The use of a targetman, its a nice thing, but i have never seen that a striker has given the ball, a second player closing to him, and a third player moving in a space. Turnovers are a joke, building up from the back, it does not matter if you have 2 right footers or 1 lefty and 1 right.

We all want to copy the Barca of 2008 - 2011, or the current Bayern side, the Dortmund side, maybe even parking the bus, but we can't. It all depends on, does the right player has enough green at the position he is at. I could go on and on.

[Caccio]

It's ok, I am still hopeful, just started a career with Curzon Ashton, apparently the weakest club in English Vanarama North (6sth) division, (that's how I usually like to play the game, on "hardest possible level"), and I beat my reserve squad 5-1, which is still significantly less goals than 7-4 or 4-6, so significantly more realistic as well. (especially as an outcome of such a match)

Hopefully, on my future, "more serious" matches, there will be even less goals than that!

[Dagenham_Dave]

Is anyone else noticing this in their saves? It's possibly the only real annoyance I have with the match engine this year.

My team have just taken a throw in down the bottom left. The opposition have won the ball back, but look further up the field. Even though in my throw in instructions, I'm supposed to have two players back at all times, on multiple occasions, there's only one, and the opposition sometimes have players in acres of space like so

The result of this was the opposition player lumped it up the field, where they ended up scoring on an easy 2-on-1 scenario. This happens on multiple occasions, and I can't seem to do anything to stop it. There's no way a team would leave two opposition players so wide open that far up the pitch, unless it's late in the game and you're piling players forward, which wasn't the case here. Really annoying.

[King Costly]

I'll pick up on this bit.

The 7+'s suggest solid games whereas the 6.3 or less suggest he is maybe making mistakes which lead to goals (Can you check his stats?). This would indicate perhaps a consistency issue or maybe even a weak "Big match" hidden attribute. Even perhaps just one or two weak attributes.

If not a 6.3 could just be a byproduct of the team losing and letting in goals which he may or may not have been able to do something about.

I'm aware of how the ratings are produced, which is why I thought his varying levels of success were quite strange!

Just looked at his form for Servette and it makes for interesting reading.

He's only made mistakes (according to the stats) in three games and got a 7.5+ twice in those matches... He made four mistakes in one game and got a 7.5!

[King Costly]

Is anyone else noticing this in their saves? It's possibly the only real annoyance I have with the match engine this year.

My team have just taken a throw in down the bottom left. The opposition have won the ball back, but look further up the field. Even though in my throw in instructions, I'm supposed to have two players back at all times, on multiple occasions, there's only one, and the opposition sometimes have players in acres of space like so

The result of this was the opposition player lumped it up the field, where they ended up scoring on an easy 2-on-1 scenario. This happens on multiple occasions, and I can't seem to do anything to stop it. There's no way a team would leave two opposition players so wide open that far up the pitch, unless it's late in the game and you're piling players forward, which wasn't the case here. Really annoying.

I've not experienced this but have seen people complain about it. Is one of the players marked as 'stay back' in the set piece instructions the guy taking the throw in? If so, obviously he can't be in two places at once!

[Dagenham_Dave]

I've not experienced this but have seen people complain about it. Is one of the players marked as 'stay back' in the set piece instructions the guy taking the throw in? If so, obviously he can't be in two places at once!

That could be it, the full back (No.3) is taking the throw and it's both fullbacks I've instructed to stay back. However, there's a couple of things amiss here.

1 - I have no designated throw in taker. Why then would one of the two players I've instructed to stay back take the throw so far up the park?

2 - Even over and above the fact it's one of the fullbacks taking the throws, any team in real life would still ensure two free players that high up the pitch were covered.

Looks like I'll need to set up a designated throw in taker to avoid this in the future, but it's still a bit silly.

[iAlwaysWin]

Right now FM16 is in a solid place, nothing has really stuck out at me as annoying or really unrealistic, transfers seem to be working well and all in kept the enjoyabilty aspect that FM15 allrdy had, which i think was the best FM in a long time.

[King Costly]

That could be it, the full back (No.3) is taking the throw and it's both fullbacks I've instructed to stay back. However, there's a couple of things amiss here.

1 - I have no designated throw in taker. Why then would one of the two players I've instructed to stay back take the throw so far up the park?

2 - Even over and above the fact it's one of the fullbacks taking the throws, any team in real life would still ensure two free players that high up the pitch were covered.

Looks like I'll need to set up a designated throw in taker to avoid this in the future, but it's still a bit silly.

Yeah that must be it then. You'd hope the game would take into consideration that you want two people back and send another player to take his position but it doesn't.

I put my LB as the left throw-in taker and my RB as my right throw-in taker and can only remember conceding from my own attacking throw-in once in about eight seasons. Even then, it was partly my fault as the opposition were playing three strikers and left them all up from our throw-in meaning we were countered three-on-two.

[Cougar2010]

That could be it, the full back (No.3) is taking the throw and it's both fullbacks I've instructed to stay back. However, there's a couple of things amiss here.

1 - I have no designated throw in taker. Why then would one of the two players I've instructed to stay back take the throw so far up the park?

2 - Even over and above the fact it's one of the fullbacks taking the throws, any team in real life would still ensure two free players that high up the pitch were covered.

Looks like I'll need to set up a designated throw in taker to avoid this in the future, but it's still a bit silly.

IRL a throw in there would generally see either the winger taking the throw with the DL offering an option or the fullback taking the throw so I'm not surprised to see the fullback taking the throw if you haven't said different.

2 - Your instructions kinda contradict though, you've given him an instruction to stay back but then not given an instruction as to who takes the throw. I would say its a bit of a grey area in the way the instructions are given. There should be a link between picking a taker and setting the stance instructions. I see the corner instructions have kinda moved more in that direction in FM16 and when you set the positions it blocks you from moving the taker whereas in previous FMs you could give a player conflicting instructions (Taker + say Lurk outside box).

[Theos]

I'm going to tell you a secret. Though we are in 2016, the majority of goals in this ME still comes from winger crosses and following the same old pattern. I mean one winger crossing and other winger scores from the close range. So, to be a successful manager and win stuff easy all you need is to use say on the right wing fast guy with good crossing and probably vision and on the other wing just a tall and strong bobby guy with decent heading and finishing, he don't have to be great, just above 12 or something. That's it. You don't need a striker, you don't need a good central midfielders. If you're using crossing guy on the right wing - use exploit the right flank instruction and vice versa. You can also toy with 'pump ball into box', but it's not necessary. Your dummy left winger gonna score 1-3 every game, regardless the opposition or in most cases even tactics.

[velvetsky]

Does anyone else feel there is too much transfer activity within the game? Also lots of money being spent? Also that the same transfers occurr? Ie higuien from Napoli to Arsenal? Very frustrating as I just want a realistic game from the AI building squads probably like I do.

[An Olive Branch]

Sadly I actually think there is a decent amount of truth in it. I've been scoring loads at the back post, both my CF and the IF on the wing coming in to nod home

[Cougar2010]

I'm going to tell you a secret. Though we are in 2016, the majority of goals in this ME still comes from winger crosses and following the same old pattern. I mean one winger crossing and other winger scores from the close range. So, to be a successful manager and win stuff easy all you need is to use say on the right wing fast guy with good crossing and probably vision and on the other wing just a tall and strong bobby guy with decent heading and finishing, he don't have to be great, just above 12 or something. That's it. You don't need a striker, you don't need a good central midfielders. If you're using crossing guy on the right wing - use exploit the right flank instruction and vice versa. You can also toy with 'pump ball into box', but it's not necessary. Your dummy left winger gonna score 1-3 every game, regardless the opposition or in most cases even tactics.

In my first seven matches (six friendlies & one cup game) I've scored 28 goals and only 8 of them have come from crosses despite having a formation/tactic that focuses on getting the ball to the wide men.

Of the eight crossed goals only two are in the manner you describe, how do you explain that?

If you are going to give feedback at least be honest about it else its worthless.

[Cougar2010]

Does anyone else feel there is too much transfer activity within the game? Also lots of money being spent? Also that the same transfers occurr? Ie higuien from Napoli to Arsenal? Very frustrating as I just want a realistic game from the AI building squads probably like I do.

At the start of every game you are setting off from a fixed point in the database therefore each club has the same weaknesses & needs the same types of players in each save. On top of that the same players are available therefore when the AI managers build their shortlists they'll tend to contain the same players more or less in each save so you will always see transfers duplicated to some degree with each save in the first couple of windows.

The further you get into a save & the more leagues you load the more variety you'll see from one save to another.

[RTHerringbone]

The crosses "thing" is always interesting reading. There's clearly a perception that they are overly effective, but SI have stated that they are comfortable that the ratio of goals stemming from crosses at ~40% is in line with real life stats. Clearly human interaction can influence this, and on my current save, 20% of my goals come from crosses, with 33% of the goals conceded from the same source. Just because something does / doesn't happen on your save, does / doesn't mean that it's a widespread issue.

[An Olive Branch]

The crosses "thing" is always interesting reading. There's clearly a perception that they are overly effective, but SI have stated that they are comfortable that the ratio of goals stemming from crosses at ~40% is in line with real life stats. Clearly human interaction can influence this, and on my current save, 20% of my goals come from crosses, with 33% of the goals conceded from the same source. Just because something does / doesn't happen on your save, does / doesn't mean that it's a widespread issue.

That may well be true, but it is also the case that through no fault of my own, I have clearly inadvertently stumbled upon a tactical set-up whereby a high number of my goals are coming from unmarked back post crosses (be it header or tap-in), to the point I am now doing what I consider to be unrealistically well with my squad.

Doing unrealistically well isn't new in FM but I had been finding recent editions mildly harder until I stumbled upon these tactics. It is therefore my belief at this time that the stats you are relying on are purely a result of the fact that not every player has found those tactics.

I'm now in a situation where I have to consider pretending to undiscover them - although admittedly I haven't yet tried them on other saves so it isn't conclusively OP.

In short my point is that statistics that show there is an even division of goals in no way have the relevance which gives them the ability to rule out OP tactics, only to show that the ME means not every tactical setup is OP in this way

[Welshace]

I'm going to tell you a secret. Though we are in 2016, the majority of goals in this ME still comes from winger crosses and following the same old pattern. I mean one winger crossing and other winger scores from the close range. So, to be a successful manager and win stuff easy all you need is to use say on the right wing fast guy with good crossing and probably vision and on the other wing just a tall and strong bobby guy with decent heading and finishing, he don't have to be great, just above 12 or something. That's it. You don't need a striker, you don't need a good central midfielders. If you're using crossing guy on the right wing - use exploit the right flank instruction and vice versa. You can also toy with 'pump ball into box', but it's not necessary. Your dummy left winger gonna score 1-3 every game, regardless the opposition or in most cases even tactics.

This is all speculation until you show us some evidence.. let's see some screenshots with all the goals from crossing and we can go from there? Or are you happy with unjustified claims every other day?

[KingCanary]

Is anyone else noticing this in their saves? It's possibly the only real annoyance I have with the match engine this year.

My team have just taken a throw in down the bottom left. The opposition have won the ball back, but look further up the field. Even though in my throw in instructions, I'm supposed to have two players back at all times, on multiple occasions, there's only one, and the opposition sometimes have players in acres of space like so

The result of this was the opposition player lumped it up the field, where they ended up scoring on an easy 2-on-1 scenario. This happens on multiple occasions, and I can't seem to do anything to stop it. There's no way a team would leave two opposition players so wide open that far up the pitch, unless it's late in the game and you're piling players forward, which wasn't the case here. Really annoying.

I have noticed I'm conceeding a lot of chances when teams counter my set pieces- generally the players in the box are really slow at tracking back/getting closing down the ball.

[velvetsky]

At the start of every game you are setting off from a fixed point in the database therefore each club has the same weaknesses & needs the same types of players in each save. On top of that the same players are available therefore when the AI managers build their shortlists they'll tend to contain the same players more or less in each save so you will always see transfers duplicated to some degree with each save in the first couple of windows.

The further you get into a save & the more leagues you load the more variety you'll see from one save to another.

So Would the leagues and database you load affect the transfers, manager targets and amount of transfers within the game?

[pedro2212]

I'm finding offsides are occuring way too often and the shots are too innacurate, the ball almost goes through the side line.

My goals are either from crosses or in the 6 yard box and one main reason for this is that no matter how fast your attackers are, they always get caught by the defenders, which leads to almost no 1vs1 with the GK.

[Cougar2010]

So Would the leagues and database you load affect the transfers, manager targets and amount of transfers within the game?

To some degree yes.

The more you load, the more options there will be & more choices of teams for players to move to. But at the top end the choices will still be limited - There are less strikers in the world that could improve Arsenal than could improve Forest Green for example.

[King Costly]

Why do full-backs NEVER cross when they're in space? I have a WB-A and FB-S who are both instructed to cross more. They get yards of space and instead of whipping crosses in they wait to get closed down then pass it back (I don't use 'work ball into box'). It's so infuriating!

[themadsheep2001]

Enough sniping or infractions follow, no more warnings.

[An Olive Branch]

What determines whether your keeper wears shorts or fetching Kiraly style jogging bottoms?

I'm seeing it way more in game than IRL, as evidenced by the fact Kiraly is one of only a handful of keepers who I can even think of wearing them IRL, but ingame both my keeper and opposition keepers seem to switch between them and shorts pretty regularly

[BoxToBox]

Why do full-backs NEVER cross when they're in space? I have a WB-A and FB-S who are both instructed to cross more. They get yards of space and instead of whipping crosses in they wait to get closed down then pass it back (I don't use 'work ball into box'). It's so infuriating!

Have they good targets in the box, maybe your forwards are well marked?

[Sarin1]

Game engine at the moment is pretty poor. Even though winning is easy.

Fullbacks playing crossfield ball from one side, to the other fullback, as he is in a little space.

Who then plays another crossfield ball back to the other fullback, as he is in a little space.

Fullback gets forward into a ton of space, then waits 5 seconds as the defender closes him down, before kicking it into that defender at the last second.

Turn on early crosses, well I will just boot it to the other fullback, or do the same thing.

Turn on byline instead, same thing, only i stand near the byline before waiting for the defender and doing it.

Change tempo, tell them to pass from deep, tell them to pass to centre. Doesn't matter.

Make it so a midfield player is always available. Ok, now I will 50% of the time play it to the DM after waiting 6 seconds instead, now he will crossfield ball it to the other fullback, who will crossfield ball it back to the original fullback, who will wait for a defender to close and kick it into him.

Most balls go out to overlapping fullbacks. Very much harder to play through the middle.

Put it on retain possession, less crossing, play through the middle.

YOUR HAVING A JOKE, hahahaha. Lets do very little with it, and then crossfield ball it back and forth to fullbacks.

Short passing, retain possession, central. WIDE AND CROSS INTO DEFENDER

The opposition just sits back and then hits a longball to their striker, ALL THE TIME.

Ohh our team is in the 80th minute, we have had 0 shots on goal, and 1 off goal from outside the box in 80 minutes, we are 2-0 down.

Better continue to smash long balls to our striker like it hasn't worked all game so far.

Next team, well these guys are beating people, better just defend with 9 outfield players and hit longballs to our striker like every other team.

This is from winning the EPL 3 times in a row and smashing the champions league, no team close to me.

Its not the winning thats the problem, its how the match engine plays out, its pretty poor. There have been much better displays of football previously.

Occasionaly you get a great goal, but mostly you can just see how its coded to prefer things.

Have two playmakers in space in front of their back 4, and a striker making a run through the middle.

Well, I could play some intricate passes. I mean all the tactics you have told me indicate that.

Instead though I will wack it out wide, even though you have done everything almost possible to prevent this, and then I will stand still and wait 5 seconds before kicking it into a defender.

I have downloaded nearly a dozen peoples other tactics, just to look at how the match engine works under them. As I was getting annoyed at how easy to win it was, without the football being anywhere near decent and the ME just pushing everything in a specific direction.

Why it I have a 5 man midfield, DPS, players in midfield that are coming short and available for passing.

Set to control, set to retain possession, the striker is Deep Lying Support.

Do my players, who are on short passing and told not to try long passes.

Immediately try and hit a ball forward to my striker, who is maker by 4 players of cause, behind the defence no less. When he has been told to come short.

No matter how many instructions you give the players to NOT DO THIS, you free up other players, you move the striker so he isn't a target for it.

They still try it, high decision quality players, teamwork passing stats, available players to pass to.

WHACK, ooops.

Its pretty disappointing, I turn it off after a game nowadays.

Hoping for a patch badly, yet the last patch made it worse.

[CityAndColour]

The crosses "thing" is always interesting reading. There's clearly a perception that they are overly effective, but SI have stated that they are comfortable that the ratio of goals stemming from crosses at ~40% is in line with real life stats. Clearly human interaction can influence this, and on my current save, 20% of my goals come from crosses, with 33% of the goals conceded from the same source. Just because something does / doesn't happen on your save, does / doesn't mean that it's a widespread issue.

Perception is a funny thing - I think the fact that a lot of cross goals seem like carbon copies of each other creates a false perception. If you concede 15 goals, and five of them are pretty much the same goal, you'll get the impression it happens too often, when in reality it's only 33% of goals scored against you.

I (like many others I'd guess) don't have an issue with how many goals come from cross situations, but do have a big issues with how they are defended when they do result in goals, and how effective deep crosses seem to be. The deep cross/tap in at the far post is infuriating because you can see defenders on the six yard box not react and the 'keeper stay rooted on his line, and it's a goal teams seem to be able to pull out of seemingly non-threatening situations.

The feeling of helplessness will always create gamer rage!

[CityAndColour]

And as I type that post, I concede three in six minutes from seemingly defendable deep crosses which are tapped in.

[jc1]

Game engine at the moment is pretty poor. Even though winning is easy.

Fullbacks playing crossfield ball from one side, to the other fullback, as he is in a little space.

Who then plays another crossfield ball back to the other fullback, as he is in a little space.

Fullback gets forward into a ton of space, then waits 5 seconds as the defender closes him down, before kicking it into that defender at the last second.

Turn on early crosses, well I will just boot it to the other fullback, or do the same thing.

Turn on byline instead, same thing, only i stand near the byline before waiting for the defender and doing it.

Change tempo, tell them to pass from deep, tell them to pass to centre. Doesn't matter.

Make it so a midfield player is always available. Ok, now I will 50% of the time play it to the DM after waiting 6 seconds instead, now he will crossfield ball it to the other fullback, who will crossfield ball it back to the original fullback, who will wait for a defender to close and kick it into him.

Most balls go out to overlapping fullbacks. Very much harder to play through the middle.

Put it on retain possession, less crossing, play through the middle.

YOUR HAVING A JOKE, hahahaha. Lets do very little with it, and then crossfield ball it back and forth to fullbacks.

Short passing, retain possession, central. WIDE AND CROSS INTO DEFENDER

The opposition just sits back and then hits a longball to their striker, ALL THE TIME.

Ohh our team is in the 80th minute, we have had 0 shots on goal, and 1 off goal from outside the box in 80 minutes, we are 2-0 down.

Better continue to smash long balls to our striker like it hasn't worked all game so far.

Next team, well these guys are beating people, better just defend with 9 outfield players and hit longballs to our striker like every other team.

This is from winning the EPL 3 times in a row and smashing the champions league, no team close to me.

Its not the winning thats the problem, its how the match engine plays out, its pretty poor. There have been much better displays of football previously.

Occasionaly you get a great goal, but mostly you can just see how its coded to prefer things.

Have two playmakers in space in front of their back 4, and a striker making a run through the middle.

Well, I could play some intricate passes. I mean all the tactics you have told me indicate that.

Instead though I will wack it out wide, even though you have done everything almost possible to prevent this, and then I will stand still and wait 5 seconds before kicking it into a defender.

I have downloaded nearly a dozen peoples other tactics, just to look at how the match engine works under them. As I was getting annoyed at how easy to win it was, without the football being anywhere near decent and the ME just pushing everything in a specific direction.

Why it I have a 5 man midfield, DPS, players in midfield that are coming short and available for passing.

Set to control, set to retain possession, the striker is Deep Lying Support.

Do my players, who are on short passing and told not to try long passes.

Immediately try and hit a ball forward to my striker, who is maker by 4 players of cause, behind the defence no less. When he has been told to come short.

No matter how many instructions you give the players to NOT DO THIS, you free up other players, you move the striker so he isn't a target for it.

They still try it, high decision quality players, teamwork passing stats, available players to pass to.

WHACK, ooops.

Its pretty disappointing, I turn it off after a game nowadays.

Hoping for a patch badly, yet the last patch made it worse.

Pretty much sums it up, very easy to win but boring as hell to watch. I played as Hibernian and won the league by 39 points and it was all wrapped up by late february, I had 2 tactics which I tweaked per game and 2-3 goals later another 3 points, most assists by wingbacks and they were my highest ratings at around 8.5. TI was to play through the middle, retain possession etc, wingbacks on support and stay wider. I haven't played in almost 3 weeks, what with xmas and new year to deal with but TBH it was getting boring, I tried again setting the team up with a narrow 4-4-2 diamond and fullbacks on defend, still the same scenario.

[Firehouse]

How long does it take for you to be able to talk to your unhappy player again?

I sold one bad player and this guy became angry because of that. We had a conversation regarding this on 16.7. It's now 16.11. and I still can't make an interaction with him.

[Luizinho]

Anyone noticing that a large percentage of the Goals come from crosses?

[RTHerringbone]

Anyone noticing that a large percentage of the Goals come from crosses?

No, it has barely been mentioned in this thread

[Danchinaski]

I'm surprised people are saying they're finding defending easy. I very rarely have a CB score higher than 7 in ratings, and l very often see Keystone Cops type stuff, tripping over the ball, running past the ball, penalty aea pinball etc. Woeful stuff.

I've signed so many CBs who can ostensibly play a solid, simple CB role, l get the same end result.

[Caccio]

Well guys, I happily announce that my hopes about the realism of FM16 have rapidly imcreased, during this one single day!

What did actually cause this sudden hope-boost of mine?

I shall gladly inform those of you here, who might care:

In my previous posts in this forum, I exmplained why I got a bit disappointed in FM15, primarily because of unrealistically too many goals on player-viewed matches, which significantly ruined the realism-level of that game.

Namely, according to my opinion, realism is supposed to play a leading, primary role in sport-manager simulations,,it should even be of crucial, key-importance in such type of games.

So I revealed my concerns and fears about FM16 game-realism as well, due a hasty "conclusion", based solely on the very 1st matches of my selected teams, against their own reserves, a.k.a. U21 squads.

The 1st of those matches I played with a Hungarian 6th division team, which (normally) doesn't even exist in the original game, it is even 3 dicision lower, than the originally featured Hungary-competition limit.

Normally I used custom league additions for this, downloaded from a site named "sortitoutse.net".

Since the 7-4 win result made me pretty much disappointed in game realism again, (it had even 1 more goal than my 1st match in FM15, with a 4-6 result, and my "man of match" player got a 10.0 mark, while the highest ever marks I remember were 9.3 and 9.4, during all my, 8 years long FM-career), I applied some logic, and suspected, that game developers weren't even prepared for such low-level low-quality matches, they haven't even calculated them into the game, (at least for now), so I restarted the game, this time without any additional leagues, so with the basic, initial national competitions and leagues only.

Since I always like to increase the challenge, meaning the game difficulty to maximum, I selected Curzon Ashton this time, the apparently weakest team of English Vanarama North division. (6th, weakest originally featured division)

I made a rush start, without bothering with any manager, tactic, roles, team, training settings, buaying-selling staff and players, merely in order to find out, if the 1st match result (vs reserves) will be just as high again. (normally I was hoping for the opposite of that)

After a 5-1 end result, my hopes already started increasing.

So after this I restarted the game once again, for the last, final time, and started with "seriously" managing Curzon Ashton, and this time I added the (apparently) weakest team from English Vanarama South division as well, named Chelmsford. (to decide which one is the weakest team to chose, I mostly use the media predictions of finishing places in the league, since I ain't too much familiar with English football in real life, but I oprefer managing english teams, sinced England has always the most divisions featured in the original, initial game, so it provides me the greatest, meaning thwe hardest challenge to me)

Well what can I say......after carefully planning-adjusting all thge tactics, training, formations, roles, starting to hire-fire staff, buy-sign new players, adjusted training and scouting, etc......the results of my 1st matches, (normally against ny U21 squads), were the following:

Curzon Ashton-Curzon Ashton U21s 3-0

Chelmsford-Chelmsford U21s 1-0 (the only goal scored during the 92nd minute additional time)

My comment: Since there are more or less suitable/appropriate formations and tactics for each team, both in real life and in FM game, it seems I initially found a more proper one for Curzon Ashton than for Chelmsford.

Anyway, thiese 2 results totally "resurrected" my faith in the realism of this, newest FM-release, and I am looking forward to continue my game career, with those 2 chosen "underdog-outsider" teams!!!

DISCLAIMER:

There are, and will be probably many of you in this forum, who won't care about this long "story" of mine at all, they are free to skip and/or ignore this post totally at will, I merely wrote this down to show those people here, who misght still care, that I don't come to these forums with only FM-criticising and complaining intentions, but to also state/express my compliments and praises regarding game as well!

[Federico]

I think nobody complained you, but what is expected is a little bit of common sense. Judging anything on earth after such a small early impression is never reliable.

You complained the game after a goal-fest during one single friendly match against reserve team, now you're praising it after a couple of wins, once you "discovered" how to set up a formation.

Nothing bad with it of course, there's always to learn with this game after all.

[Shake Appeal]

Match engine:

Still far too many goals from crosses.

Full backs on attack duty are far too overpowered picking up man of the match in most games.

In my eight seasons of FM16, I don't think I've had a DL/DR finish the year with less than a 7.5 average rating. My WB(a) signings have been my fans' player of the season every single season (they're the only wide players I use; I don't have anybody in the M/AM strata in a 4-3-1-2). I keep selling them on at inflated prices and replacing them with the journeymen. Same result: they bed in instantly, get bags of assists, and can be easily sold on and replaced at year's end.

It's a good money-spinner, at least!

Crosses are put in too easily, are far too accurate even with middling stats (e.g. Crossing, Technique, Vision all 12 or lower), cause absolute havoc in defenses, and are rarely claimed by the keeper. SI may be right that the percentage of goals scored directly from crosses overall is true to real life, but they still look preposterously overpowered in the game engine — just pinging from boot to boot across huge distances with the opposition defense seemingly powerless to stop them. And because many goals result from the havoc caused by an initial cross if the striker misses, the "goals from crosses" stat is probably underselling their efficacy, if anything.

[qwerty22]

Pretty much sums it up, very easy to win but boring as hell to watch. I played as Hibernian and won the league by 39 points and it was all wrapped up by late february, I had 2 tactics which I tweaked per game and 2-3 goals later another 3 points, most assists by wingbacks and they were my highest ratings at around 8.5. TI was to play through the middle, retain possession etc, wingbacks on support and stay wider. I haven't played in almost 3 weeks, what with xmas and new year to deal with but TBH it was getting boring, I tried again setting the team up with a narrow 4-4-2 diamond and fullbacks on defend, still the same scenario.

If you go on you tube you'll find that most people who are broadcasting their careers are scoring or conceding the same goal over and over again, Crossed to far post then tapped in. Or a set piece from the side where a player runs in front of his marker and taps it in.

I believe that the ME is imbalanced and can't represent all the unnecessary bells and whistles that have been added through the years, Probably it's been watered down to avoid problems that happened in the past.

By this time in the long life of the 2D game you'd expect to see some individualism and some intricate passing, Unfortunately all the teams go through the same sequence over and over again. Hope it's fixed in a patch we're getting very close!!

[Sunstrikuuu]

You don't have to guess, there's a section which tells you how many of your goals come from crosses. I'd wager the actual figure will be considerably less than 80%.

Does anyone know how the engine will record a goal which is created by a cross for which an assist isn't registered? A cross comes in and the center forward heads it down to an attacking midfielder, or a cross comes in and is improperly cleared or dropped by the goalkeeper, or a cross leads to a shot which, though it doesn't go in, leads to a tap-in. How are those things recorded? Recorded as goals not-from-crosses, one every few games could have a significant effect on the percentages.

[rp1966]

I believe that the ME is imbalanced and can't represent all the unnecessary bells and whistles that have been added through the years, Probably it's been watered down to avoid problems that happened in the past.

!

I think the ME is capable of much better.

I've recently played an Asia Cup tournament as Japan. The variety of goals was pretty good until the quarter finals when the opposition played more defensively and had better quality defenders available. Comparing to my experience playing as West Ham in the EPL I think there's an imbalance between the capabilities of attackers and defenders when you get into a packed penalty box situation - attackers in this ME seem to play in a limited way with very little suggestion that any football intelligence is at work.

The attackers always seem to choose the pass it out to wing option when met by a defender - even when there are options (maybe more risky ones) in the box. Maybe there needs to be a tweaking of attacker's risk assessment once they get into the box. So at the moment the ball get passed out to the wing, a cross comes in, the defenders aren't positioned to clear the ball away from the goal (they never go back far enough to clear a cross upfield) and the goalkeeper 'zone of uncertainty' seems to start half a stride off the line, so they often don't come for crosses they ought to get. The result is the ball flies through the area and is tapped in by a player coming in from the opposite side.

Talking of goalkeepers - their lack of ability on crossing seems to be compensated for by perfection in dealing with shots from the front. Virtually every shot at a keeper will be saved - I'm not sure whether this is overpowered shot-stopping or the fact that strikers only ever seem to hit the ball in straight lines - a shot goalwards never seems to be angled away from the keeper and mis-hits that IRL often end in a goal in those situations only ever seem to be total howlers in the ME.

The overall effect is that as the opposition becomes more competitive and more defensive, the attacking team finds it virtually impossible to score from play within the box and crosses become the only way to get a shot in where the perfect shot-stopping of the keeper can be avoided by the one thing that has a good chance of finding him out of position - a cross to the far post.

It feels like the defence has been tightened up in certain areas and the attack hasn't had a compensatory tweak. Balance, as ever! The problem for SI is it's all about feel and that can only be judged though extensive play-testing and isn't going to necessarily show in statistical analysis of how the ME is performing.

I think the worst thing about this version is that compared to previous ones (especially pre-role games) - you feel like you are programming a team of robots rather than giving instructions to a team of players. Role seems to overpower player stats to a large degree and even flair players seem to just do the same as lesser players just a bit better, rather than the unexpected and brilliant - which certainly used to happen when the tactical setups were vaguer in nature.

[Fancy Gaffot]

Having as many poor back passes from CBs to GKs resulting in goals as in 16.1. Only now these are headers and used to be ground passes.

[Ellisio]

I want to report strange repetitive patterns of results.

My team goes on incredible runs without losing then suddenly the same thing happens but without winning.

For example I went 16 games without dropping any points and then for no reason I suddenly couldn't win for 9 games and these patterns keep repeating. I understand that teams go through these phases but the pattern I've found seems way too unrealistic and almost scripted.

It's happened in all of my saved games so far.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The attackers always seem to choose the pass it out to wing option when met by a defender - even when there are options (maybe more risky ones) in the box. Maybe there needs to be a tweaking of attacker's risk assessment once they get into the box. So at the moment the ball get passed out to the wing, a cross comes in, the defenders aren't positioned to clear the ball away from the goal (they never go back far enough to clear a cross upfield) and the goalkeeper 'zone of uncertainty' seems to start half a stride off the line, so they often don't come for crosses they ought to get. The result is the ball flies through the area and is tapped in by a player coming in from the opposite side.

So, how do you account for the huge number of crosses that don't lead to goals?

The way you read people moaning about this on here, it's almost as if it's impossible to defend a cross. And yet, in any given day, the percentage of cross balls that reach a team mate is very low, just as it is in real life.

If a goal IS scored from a cross, of course the defence haven't coped with it...that's why it's a goal.

That said, I do think that goalkeeper AI needs to improve again. There are definitely occasions when a keeper should be coming to meet a cross. I'm not even sure why keepers have a 'tendency to punch' stat, I don't think I've seen a keeper come out and punch the ball clear in any version of FM I've played.

[steveshaw1983]

I know this is not feedback but is it possible to add a manager picture once you have already started your game?

[Welshace]

Preferences should have the option yes..

[qwerty22]

[video=youtube_share;5S8N_Gp3uL4]

This is a goal from FM 2009, Kaka's quality shows in that finish.

Nowadays after spending 2 hours on PI and TIs .... Messi plays the same as Crouch

[steveshaw1983]

Preferences should have the option yes..

Thank you

[Sarin1]

So, how do you account for the huge number of crosses that don't lead to goals?

The way you read people moaning about this on here, it's almost as if it's impossible to defend a cross. And yet, in any given day, the percentage of cross balls that reach a team mate is very low, just as it is in real life.

If a goal IS scored from a cross, of course the defence haven't coped with it...that's why it's a goal.

That said, I do think that goalkeeper AI needs to improve again. There are definitely occasions when a keeper should be coming to meet a cross. I'm not even sure why keepers have a 'tendency to punch' stat, I don't think I've seen a keeper come out and punch the ball clear in any version of FM I've played.

Match Engine seems to just lead to a situation where crosses happen A LOT.

Seems that players no matter how instructed, will look for someone that the engine THINKS is in space.

Hence the constant long balls out of defence. The ball going wide so much, the amount of crosses that come in.

Game gets hit out wide so much, because that player seems to be in more space, the cross comes in because he is wide and has maybe 1 passing option.

He puts it far post often, as the player running in far post seems to have the most space.

GOAL.

Full backs hit crossfield balls to each other, because they think that player is in more space.

Players find it harder to play intricate passes in the middle, because the players out wide are in more space.

Doesn't matter if the player out wide will have 2 defenders on him, and the option in the middle would lead to a through ball that slices the defence apart.

Nope, out wide.

If you want a tactic that wins easily, have your central midfield players set up so you can play out of defence easily and then distribute the ball wide.

Get the ball into the box via a cross, and then if they clear it, your central midfield players and defenders get the clearance and send it wide again.

You will win so many games its not funny.

[rp1966]

So, how do you account for the huge number of crosses that don't lead to goals?

The way you read people moaning about this on here, it's almost as if it's impossible to defend a cross. And yet, in any given day, the percentage of cross balls that reach a team mate is very low, just as it is in real life.

If a goal IS scored from a cross, of course the defence haven't coped with it...that's why it's a goal.

That said, I do think that goalkeeper AI needs to improve again. There are definitely occasions when a keeper should be coming to meet a cross. I'm not even sure why keepers have a 'tendency to punch' stat, I don't think I've seen a keeper come out and punch the ball clear in any version of FM I've played.

My point was less one in the 'all goals are crosses' camp and more in the 'all crossed goals are the same' and 'lack of variety in forward play camp'.

There are two crosses that are never defended and lead to virtually all goals from crosses - the deep cross that cuts diagonally between centre back and full, and the near byline cross that flies through the area behind the defenders and in front of the goalkeeper that gets put in at the far post.

The real point I was making was that the ME is capable of generating a good variety of play (as I saw in the early stages of the Asia Cup with Japan), but that you won't see it once the capability of teams gets close. Using width to try to break down a defence always ends in crosses not worked space - at top levels this needs to be rebalanced. Specifically the use of space in the box at top levels needs to be improved to prevent passing out to the wing nearly always being seen as the best option.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Doesn't matter if the player out wide will have 2 defenders on him, and the option in the middle would lead to a through ball that slices the defence apart.

Nope, out wide.

The majority of my goals come from through balls from my midfield to one of my strikers to run on to.

[Caccio]

LOL, it's not about "discovering" the right tactics and formation, normally I always set and adjust it each single time I play the game "for serious", I started the very 1st match against under 21s team without tacticsetting, in order to use its result as a gage for game realism, based on my experience with FM15.

That was where I acted too hasty.

And a little brag of a satisfied FM16 player:

Yarrr, don't you dare to underestimate or question my tactical manager-skills and capabilities, I often manage to get these selected weakest teams even promoted, right after the very 1st season even!!! (don't tempt me to prove this in an Online game session as wellI am quite sure I can beat anyone, (both with Curzon Ashton and Chelmsford), who selects any other team from the same division, or even one division higher)