Luizinho

When it comes to defending, when is 'Force Opposition Inside' a good option? My thinking would be if the opposition create a lot of chances from out wide, and you want to try and engage their wide players earlier. I just struggle to see when you wouldn't want to use anything other than 'Force Opposition Outside; as surely restricting space centrally is always the safest option...

What role do people feel is best for a wide 10 in the AMR/L roles? Inverted Winger/Advanced Playmaker on Support with Sit Narrower and Roam from Position?

This thread is great. @Rashidi I wanted to understand your logic around the wide forward roles you use. Would you mind explaining your thinking? Specifically interested to see why you feel Gnabry isn't an Attack role? Also why you feel Gnabry is a Inside Forward and Coman is an Inverted Winger?

This is because your system plays into Bayern's (and other gegen-pressing teams) hands perfectly... Think about it this way, if you're a Gegen-Pressing team (pressing high up the pitch, squeezing the opposition and having a high defensive line), what's the ideal opposition? = Someone that plays very slow and short passes out from the back. Add in that teams like Bayern and RB Liepzig have great midfielders, who press really well. Also defensively you're also pressing high up the pitch and surrendering a lot of space. Against top teams, they'll punish you consistently. Especially if they have direct runners and player's who can play the killer pass, like Bayern do in abundance.

A Winger has dribble more hardcoded. They will dribble with the ball regardless of the team instructions. The wide players should 100% be in the MR/L slots. When you put players in the AMR/L slots, they’re essentially wide forwards. Which I would assume is not what your looking for?

Been looking for a system like this to use when looking to see a game out. Imagine most duties will need to be on Support with none being on Attack? Balanced mentality makes the most sense. Prevents players from hoofing the ball clear if their pressed by the opposition, but also withholds them from being to adventurous with their play. A deep formation also makes sense to me, a 4-1-4-1 would be my starting point. I would actually lean the other way. I'd have 2 or 3 playmakers.

I've always found that dropping the tempo makes you far more susceptible against top team that press high up like Bayern - (different against a team like Atletico Madrid) Asking the players to take their time on the ball when they're under pressure means that they'll can get caught, surely? On the flip side, as the players to make decision quickly can lead to poor passes if they're not cable (poor mentals/technicals). Tempo has always been a tricky one

I'd agree with De Nile. Ronaldo is arguably the greatest goalscorer ever, being a great finisher with both his feet and his head. So I'd play him through the middle on any role with an Attack duty. Sancho is a pacey winger who is able to provide great service from out wide. So either a Winger or Inverted Winger on support would be a good role choice. You'd need to think about how all the roles compliment each other though, not just these two.

Surprised to hear that people don't feel Mane has an Attack duty. He's so direct with his play that a support duty doesn't make sense IMO. For me it's a 4-3-3 shape with a DLF (S) up top flanked by two Inside Forwards on Attack.

I just wanted the highlight the bit in bold, where you talk about your cautious ‘system’. As far as I know, this is incorrect. The team’s fluidity label is purely a cosmetic feature and has no impact on player’s creative freedom or any other instructions?

Looks too conservative. If the IWBs are going to come inside and take up central positions. Then Pedri and De Jong will need to take up more attacking positions higher up. Currently you only have three players taking attacking positions and even he IW (S) is pretty conservative. Also the Mez will only join the attack, once the ball has fully transition into their third. Also you claim to ask Depay to ‘stay wider’, but you’re playing him as a Raumdeuter. Deosnt he have ‘sit narrower’ hard coded in that role?

I'd been trying to find that screenshot for ages! Thanks for re-sharing it. I think the key for me is no 'get further forward' PI. It's interesting as the system is pretty much exactly the same as the 'Pep' system, but just positions swapping attacking responsibilities. The midfield support is now given by the LCM and RCM, instead of the IWBs The fullbacks instead now create the width in attack, instead of the wingers The IFs now occupy the half spaces, albeit in a slightly different way to the 'free 8s' Same attacking shape, but created in a different way. It's a useful system to have if you have more aggressive wingbacks and/or more goalscoring wide players. Also it's a useful plan B if you're not having much luck in a match with the 'traditional' Pep system. I guess it focuses attacks slightly more down the flanks?

Yeah I'm very familiar with the 'Pep' system and it's actually my go to system. Lots of really good content on it across this forum, especially from @Columnarius The system I'm speaking about is this one: Its a different system, but functions very similar with the same attacking shape. In my view, it just requires different attributes for specific positions and is useful to use if you lack goalscoring MCs with poor movement for example. Infact if you read my initial post, I mentioned that Barcelona's three MCs generally have poor movement and attacking (goalscoring) attributes, so the Pep system wouldn't necessarily get the best out of them. The 'Pep' system would work great if you played Coutinho and Messi as the false 8s. However I'm keen to have a second system that I can use, when I want to play a midfield three of De Jong, Busquets and Pjanic along with Griezmann and Messi playing as half space attackers in the IF roles.

Thanks for the info So are both of those wider central roles just vanilla CM -Support roles (no PIs)? I believe I have an understanding of how the system should work, but struggle on how best to utilise the LCM and RCM. I see any forward runs as a big issue from the MCs, whether it be via PIs or PPMs; as they get in the way of the space you want your IFs. I've tried to detail below the issue as I see it in my head: The above is the attacking shape (or how I see/want it). Have a 5x5 shape (yellow and green boxes) or a 2-3-5 shape. Having 5 players behind the ball provides plenty of protection against counter attacks and also has ball recycling options to help with possession. Front 5 provide penetrative movement towards the goal (in their won unique ways). The issue I have is in the two half spaces (pink) and how the CMs and the IFs interact. How are you looking for them to interact (whats the theory in your head)? Do you not find these two players getting in the way of each other? Or do you see the IFs more as attackers, who attack the box frequently and the MCs purely as supportive midfielders, who will rarely go beyond the edge of the box?

A few of things that would stick out for me: 1) Naturally with a narrow diamond formation, you'll lack width and as such I feel your fullbacks roles are therefore far too conservative. Wingbacks are more aggressive with both their positioning in attack and they will provide you with width earlier than a fullback. These are probably the two most important roles for you in this system and they will need to be good players both offensively (for reasons above) and defensively (as they will likely get pinned 2v1 against an opponent's winger and fullback). I'd play with two wingbacks on either support or attack as a minimum. 2) Three defensive roles in the midfield? You essentially have 5 players who have no attacking contribution. One defensive role would be adequate in midfield, the rest should be contributing to the attack, whether it be in either a support or attack role. Particularly if you're playing as a strong team like Argentina. 3) Lack of penetration looks an issue. Unless you're using some additional PIs for Dybala, only Martinez is attacking the box with regularity. If the opposition play deep and have two defensive midfielders - you'll be completely nullified and relying on flashes of individual brilliance.